Dennis Warner's Jamaica fights...posters

Dennis Warner's Jamaica fights...posters

Dennis Warner's Jamaica fights...posters

There will be one more poster with the rest of the fights next week!!!

Wow what an awesome card!

I dont suppose Dennis wants to fly me over to referee? :)

Koaklai-Brown?? Nice to see Clifton taking on such a hefty opponent....Why
Jamaica?...Do Jamaicans enjoy/participate in Thai Boxing??

Press release

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ-IYEzOk6k

I am excited for Clifton-Kaoklai.
I think with Clifton's height and power he will be in for a win.

Goodluck Canada!

Very excited about Yod-Malapiet. One is powerful and traditional and the other tricky, clever and strong.

Can't wait!

Malapiet will survive but Yod will walk away the victor. Is Malapiet also a south paw?

Malaipet is right handed...

has anyone got contact details for dennis warner as i dont think my emails are being recieved and i have no flights confirmed yet,beginning to worry.nath

i think malipet yod is a miss match and brown koaklai, koaklai is pretty shit recently very sloppy guard and brown is twice the size of him. yod might be kind and let malapet survive as he is a fellow thai but he could disptch him in a round if he wanted to!

i think sandy holt has contact details nathan, not 100% sure though i think he'd mentioned in a previous thread he knew him/was in contact.
Sam

thanks sam-good luck with your upcoming fight(at last!!),will try and get there depending on flight times etc.nath

thank you :-) yeah its been ages since ive fought i just want to be as active as poss but its proving to be so hard!
Hope everything is going well for you guys :-)

No-one is talking about Lamsongkram vs Farid. I reckon this will be the closest fight of the night. Both fighters are world class in their specialised weight grade.

If Farid can't put him down with a punch then I'm backing the mighty teeps of Lamsongkram for the win.

David


2008-05-21 12:20:35 ( time)


David writes:

has anyone got contact details for dennis warner as i dont think my emails are being recieved and i have no flights confirmed yet,beginning to worry.nath
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Nath, I know Dennis has already purchased the WIKBA World Title fight-it looks very nice!

dan

lamsongkram will beat farid

DROOOOOOOOOOL.

and envy.

David


2008-05-21 12:20:35 ( time)


David writes:

has anyone got contact details for dennis warner as i dont think my emails are being recieved and i have no flights confirmed yet,beginning to worry.nath


===Nath, you got mail.

dan

testing

Gosh!!It finally works...Who is in charge of the card?I might be in Jamaica...Obviously for other reasons...dont let the old lady know yet....
I'm 2 time World Shidokan Champion from South Africa. Who do I contact? 154lber..can go up to 160lbs.

Farid isn't what he was, unfortunately, and the 2 fights with Yod really took some of that away. I don't see him winning as much as I want him to. Yod v. Malaiphet is a mismatch as paulinthailand stated. Won't be close.

Oh, yeah Kaoklai should stop fighting...at what point should a sanctioner step in and revoke that privilege like in boxing? Too much damage since that huge KO of mighty mo. Seems like every Dutch K-1 fighter has bashed him the past several years. Pity.

IF Kaoklai does fight he should be doing so at 75kg and stop trying to take on the cruiserweights.

Looks Awesome.

So good that its Ja makin me crazy! LOL

;p

Yod talks about his fight with Malaipet... quite some respect for his man
link title

ENJOY!!!

Poster for the 18th

will he be ready??? some say no I say yes...

will he be ready??? some say no I say yes...

quite a few mismatches could be early night with some stoppages depends if the thais have trained and can be assed to fight

We leave tomorrow....can't wait!!!

Dennis, good luck for the show and all fighters. Not long to go.

To watch the PPV got to www.cliftonbrown.ca

Dont know if im just being thick or not, but is this on friday night (early hours of sat) or Thurs night (early hours of fri?? i know it says the 20th which is friday but on the pay per view countdown it says one day and 3 hours or summat!!!

Marianne - check this poster. i think it's the accurate one. Friday the 20th at 9 PM...would be 3 AM Saturday your time just off the top of my head.

lol, thanks Pisand

More fighters pixs on here and enjoy..

http://k-1fans.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42253&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

i know the girl in the third photo down with the large tattoo, looks like shes over there modeling or promo.

sorry to be stupid again, but i've paid for the pay per view but all it says is that my order is complete, i dont know how to watch it coz it doesn't say...do i just go on to the website and log in??? also, does anyone know the exact time the fights start in english time....

Same here Marianne your not on your own. It doesnt make it clear how you watch it lol!

I think you go to the video section thats where all the promotion videos are.

arghhh, 12pm now, hope i work out how to watch it soon, bloody internet lol!!! the video section looks like the way forward Tricia, it had better be ha ha! am gonna try Dave J's link from the other thread as well!

Well while you are working out how to watch it get busy and vote for Julie in the online poll. The more votes she gets the more chance she will get to fight out there again !

i cant get back on it now coz it says me password is invalid, ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Thats probably just a technical error caused by excess alchohol:)

no i swear its not lol... i wrote everything down earlier when i paid for it and just used exactly the same password as i use for everything else, and have only had 2 drinks this eve to make sure i didnt fall asleep and miss the fights, bleeding typical. they are gonna send me a new password apparently but its not there yet!!!

results anyone

Here are the results..http://k-1fans.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42297

Germaine De Ramdamie def Julie Kitchen points

did anyone else manage to watch it? i was sent a new password so was able to log in but just couldn't find where to watch it, paid for it too grrrr!
gutted for Julie, just wish i could comment on it, how did the fight pan out-was it close??

It didn't work - first the login credentials they sent 2 weeks ago, then after considerable delay, the buffering was horrific and the event a wash for me even with FiOS. I'm asking for a refund or the event sent to me. My past experiences with live streaming should have made me refrain from purchasing.

try again guys! if you've paid for it, you should be able to watch it for 48 hours (so im thinking 3am monday??)
I had to go to the strongest point of reception in our place to make it work.

it was a very subdued fight, i did watch the first round thru my fingers, but Germaine was testing Julie - the commentators did say they expected more from Germaine, and kept on praising Julie after she took some hard hits from Germaine AND STOOD HER GROUND. The woman wouldnt and COULDNT be knocked out by Germaine!!!

Won on points, 50-45 with 2 judges I think so quite close. Germaine was all praises for Julie afterwards, saying "I've knocked out guys, but not Julie!" How brilliant is that! Some people would say Germaine was not at her best, almost sounds like it's taking something away from Julie, but Germaine on a bad day is STILL a hard fight.

whoops read it again and i think it's now 'watch the show ONCE in the 48 hour period' - EVIL!

thanks raging heart, im so glad Julie stood her ground-i really, really wanted to her to win but it was always going to be tough. i thought germaine would be looking for the knockout but would find it hard to keep inside with Julie being so good at controlling the range and having a height advantage. your right, even if germaine was subdued it wouldn't make her any less dangerous at all thought maybe it wasn't that she was subdued, she might just have been playing a different game as im sure she would be taking Julie very seriously. cant comment though coz i DIDNT SEE IT ha ha, grrrr it does say we can watch for up to 48hours so am going to give it another try.

well done to julie anyway, hopefully a rematch??? a bit closer to home this time (Tricia.......xx)

No worries marianne, yeah it was nerve-wracking...but when Julie came in with Elvis's 'Devil in Disguise' that might've been a sign it was going to be a different match. :)

Yeah I think Germaine didn't come in straight away with her relentless flurry of punches, Julie was keeping her well away with teeps -- you can feel that they had loads of respect for one another. After the match it was nothing but luuurrrvveeee!!! Hope you get to watch it soon!!!

Any results for the June 18th event ? Did it take place ?

50-45 on 2 judges cards? so germaine won every round according to 2 judges? if thats true it would not indicate it was close, a 50-47 in thailand is not classed as close.anyone who has watched it, was it one sided as those cards indicate??? we all knew julie is tough and could get in there and do herself proud, and like said above maybe a rematch at home.

I'm confused because 50-45 means not even remotely close, but RagingHeart, you felt it was close? Maybe 50-45 is a typo, or improperly scored???

still aint seen it!! really want to see how the fight was fought, i wonder what germaine was scoring so well with, just coz it would be hard for her to (as said above)come in with her agressor style and get Julie on the back foot-i just cant imagine julie backed up to be honest, especially if julie was scoring with alot of teeps. how much clinch was there (anyone?) was germaine scoring with Knees? Arghh just want to see it!

I am confused too!

Why did people think that keeping Germaine at range was a good plan?

Thats where she is the most dangerous!

Germaine is taller than Julie and knocked Angie Parr out with a right leg head kick from miles out.

I really wanted Julie to win but i think that using reach and distance as your best weapon against a taller opponent is not the best plan.

is Germaine taller than Julie? I thought Julie was taller, is she not 5"10 i didn't realise germaine was that tall. if she was taller then maybe not the best idea, but germaine's movement in close is so good. I suppose its which the lesser of the two evils-she is so dangerous wherever she is but i think i would rather have her at the end of my kicks than have her hands connecting-most of her KO'S have been punches, although she stopped Carli with leg kicks and yep, knocked Angie out with that beast of a head kick.

Yes she is taller.. Germaine is 1.79m Thats a smidging under 5"11

Its only by half an inch but if you are planning a fight based on being taller than your opponent then it matters.

Me personally I would have wanted to take her into a clinch, knee, elbow war and used Germaines own strength to try and off balance and score !

Hindsight is a great thing so i am not trying to take anything away from from Julies performance or her teams game plan, just making observations

i watched the fight live with julie and germaine and spoke to both of them after the fight,julie is taller than germaine and tried to use the long range teeps hoping that germaine would try and pressure her but germaine did not want to commit to the boxing because of julies use of elbows,germaine was however very clever with her distancing.julie closed the distance down a couple of times with very good knees and was doing well in the clinch but the referee kept breaking the clinch even while the girls were working much to the dismay of the touchgloves cornerteam??who also was told that they could not fan their fighter in the breaks.germaines boxing was impeccable and i cannot see how julie took the punches she took and kept smiling at germaine,both girls kicked well with full power also.the fight was unanimous but germaine stated on the mic that julie was the toughest opponent she had fought against as she kept coming.everyone in jamaica is buzzing about this girls war and people saying that germaine wasnt herself are wrong as germaine could not manipulate julie like her other opponents because of julies teeps.germaine is tough and loves a trade off, but not stupid enough to walk into a scoring shot all the time.well done both girls.

They couldnt fan their fighter!!!! Thats a strange one!

Hard luck but well done Julie, it is great you gave Germaine her toughest fight to date and fought well using your head as well as your heart.

Breaking the clinch when they were kneeing effectively sounds strange, who was refereeing? Not being allowed to fan a boxer sounds strange, I presume they were allowed to put water over the boxers to cool them?

Some very odd sounding scores...*slight* off sdog:


CO-SANCTIONED TITLE
IKF & IKKC Muay Thai Light Heavyweight World Title.
Manu N'toh (USA, 174) defeated Vicente Vielvoye (Holland, 175) by TKO-Injury at 2:39 of round 1. (Dislocated knee)
REFEREE: Paula Tocha
JUDGES: Dan Stell, Vichai (Rex), Dej Sriampai.

IMTC Muay Thai Super Welterweight World Title
Baxter Humby (USA, 154) defeated Jiangtao Dong (China, 150) by unanimous decision, 49-46, 50-45 and 50-46.
REFEREE: Jorge Zarate
JUDGES: Dan Stell, Paula Tocha, Bob Chaney

IKF Muay Thai LIGHT Middleweight World Title.
Deiselleck Rungruangyon (Thailand, 154) defeated Marco Pique (Suriname / Holland, 158.5) by unanimous decision, 48-47, 49-46 and 48-47.
REFEREE: Vichai (Rex).
JUDGES: Dan Stell, Dej Sriampai, Jorge Zarate.

IKF Muay Thai Super Heavyweight World Title.
Patrice Quattron (France, 255.5) defeated Rick Cheek (USA, 234) by TKO at 2:00 of round 1.
REFEREE: Dan Stell
JUDGES: Vichai (Rex), Paulo Tacha, Jorge Zarate.

IKKC & WIKBA Muay Thai Women's Lightweight World Title.
Germaine de Randamie (Holland, 140) defeated Julie Kitchen (England, 138.5) by unanimous decision, 50-45 on all three judges cards.
REFEREE: Vichai (Rex).
JUDGES: Dej Sriampai, Jorge Zarate, Bob Chaney

WBC Muay Thai Middleweight World Title.
Lamsongkram Chuwattana (Thailand, 158.2) defeated Farid Villaume (France, 157.7 ) by unanimous decision, 49-45, 50-43 and 50-44.
REFEREE: Dej Sriampai
JUDGES: Vichai (Rex), Paulo Tacha, Jorge Zarate.

WBC Muay Thai Super Cruiserweight World Title.
Steve McKinnon (Australia, 209) defeated Ashwin Balark (Holland, 210) by unanimous decision.
REFEREE: Dej Sriampai.
JUDGES: Vichai (Rex), Paula Tocha, Bob Chaney

IKKC Muay Thai Cruiserweight World Title.
Kaoklai Kannorasingh (Thailand, 176) defeated Clifton Brown (Canada, 189) by split decision, 49-46, 48-47 and 47-48.
REFEREE: Dej Sriampai
JUDGES: Vichai (Rex), Jorge Zarate, Bob Chaney

WBC Muay Thai Super Welterweight World Title.
Yodsaenklai Fairtex (Thailand, 153.5) defeated Malaipet Team Diamond (USA, 154) by TKO at end of round 3 due to a cut over his eye.
REFEREE: Dej Sriampai
JUDGES: Vichai (Rex), Paulo Tacha, Jorge Zarate.

I watched the fight and thought Julie fought the right fight not getting into a war with Germaine, Julie being clever with good eyes and not letting Germaine get her heavy punches off.
It was closer than how it sounded on the judges score cards.
Hats off to both girls they are a credit to our sport.
Tricia

any photos???

Its hard to know how to fight Germaine; shes got so many weapons, fast twitch fibers, a wicked hi rd house, a killer left hook, a knee that can reach an upright 5' 10" fighter's head, great hand speed and boxing skills...etc

I have to think Julie's athleticism, abilty to move in all directions and being SMART enough NOT to stand relatively immobile and directly in front of Germaine made her competitive.

also not being afaid of Germaine had to help her stay relaxed, and able to react and move quickly.

Germaine off?? I disagree; she was just an inevitable victim of unrealistically high expectations after a series of spectacular Ko's of strong opponents. Others have also taken Germaine the distance including 5' 2" Asako Saioka.

It has been my experience, (no more subjective than many judges) that Lopsided Scores dont always prove it was a lopsided fight. 50-45 means nothimg to me-excpet Germaiube probably desreved the win. I doubt it was physically in thwe ring all that lopsided.

I wont argue with purists who demand scrupulous conformity and universal judging/scorinbg standards...(even if they whipped the entire world into shape, and got them, judges would inevitably differ and the scoring complaints would continue unabated)

Congrats to Julie and Germaine and Dennis for a great show!!

Lamsongkram Chuwattana (Thailand, 158.2) defeated Farid Villaume (France, 157.7 ) by unanimous decision, 49-45, 50-43

nice scoring 4 point win and 7 point win

Are these weights right? Kaoklai 80KG Brown 86KG?

Regarding the Lamsongkram/Farid fight, the point difference may be considered somewhat wide or even grossly off, but Farid was just standing there, taking shots, for most of the fight. Honestly didn't look like the same Farid from past performances.

I agree with Liam very inconsistent judging scores. If Farid didn't take eight counts he must have been seriously outclassed bordering on getting stopped for being outclassed to get 43 and 44. 49:45 is a massive win already.

That's what I heard anyway (re: score) but I might've gotten it wrong!

Anyway, there's lots more professional opinions coming out.

I hope you do get to watch it marianne, I'm new to all this so have to learn more about MT scoring.

it is mean that you can only watch the thing ONCE after you've ordered it!

Lopsided scores mean a lopsided fight. Unless you have improper scoring. 50-45 isn't close at all, if the fight was closer than 1 fighter being completely outclassed, then the scores should reflect that. This would be a good event to dissect for training to see what the hell happened with the scores...50-43????? Unreal.

if julie made an effort to fight back and make a fight of it she deserved at least a 46 i would like to see the fight i thought julie would have clinched and kneed as it is germaines weakest side to her game, i hope they all got treated well and paid well over there.

I have my opinions on the scoring as well...

So... after the fight everyone was saying to me I got robbed... I know judging is subjective, and have always accepted the decsions in the past, plus, I was thikning that maybe everyone was telling me this because I was in Jamaica. I needed to watch it first before I gave my own opinion. Thanks to you guys I've been able to. You'll recall when I lost to Carnage, I gave and still give him all the respect for winning... But after watching this a number of times, even by counting the numbr of shots with kickboxing clickers. There is no way I lost this fight!

1. I won the first four rounds
2. I landed more shots
3. I landed the more effective, plus more power shots
4. I landed more knees in the clinch
5. I pressed the action the entire fight/ ring generalship
6. They say in order to beat the champ, you really must win cleary. I didn't feel Kaoklai did anything that could of said he dominated the fight.
7. If one were to say there was not many kicks, Kaoklai also landed very few kicks as well. Only landing a few more pushkicks should not be enough to take a champions title...

If you watch the fight without the sound, and commentators bias, I believe it is obvious. I take nothing away from Kaoklai, he fought hard and was a difficult opponent. But his body Language shows he feels the same...

We are filing a formal protest on the decision.

Lastly, to show the negative energy one gets when a loss comes, eventhough it may be close or contorversial... Here is a quote from another promoter I received by text shortly after the fight...

"When a donkey talks about donkeys, a prudent man listens. But u & Suchard talk... now u have stitches, a protest & very low stock."

We not looking for sympathy just integrity in Judging...

Thanks

I have my opinions on the scoring as well...

So... after the fight everyone was saying to me I got robbed... I know judging is subjective, and have always accepted the decsions in the past, plus, I was thikning that maybe everyone was telling me this because I was in Jamaica. I needed to watch it first before I gave my own opinion. Thanks to you guys I've been able to. You'll recall when I lost to Carnage, I gave and still give him all the respect for winning... But after watching this a number of times, even by counting the numbr of shots with kickboxing clickers. There is no way I lost this fight!

1. I won the first four rounds
2. I landed more shots
3. I landed the more effective, plus more power shots
4. I landed more knees in the clinch
5. I pressed the action the entire fight/ ring generalship
6. They say in order to beat the champ, you really must win cleary. I didn't feel Kaoklai did anything that could of said he dominated the fight.
7. If one were to say there was not many kicks, Kaoklai also landed very few kicks as well. Only landing a few more pushkicks should not be enough to take a champions title...

If you watch the fight without the sound, and commentators bias, I believe it is obvious. I take nothing away from Kaoklai, he fought hard and was a difficult opponent. But his body Language shows he feels the same...

We are filing a formal protest on the decision.

Lastly, to show the negative energy one gets when a loss comes, eventhough it may be close or contorversial... Here is a quote from another promoter I received by text shortly after the fight...

"When a donkey talks about donkeys, a prudent man listens. But u & Suchard talk... now u have stitches, a protest & very low stock."

We not looking for sympathy just integrity in Judging...

Thanks

Richard cheek took some handlement that french guy is massive

Yeah - quite a mismatch. Patrice was dominating.

hi everyone,just got back but both julie and i were treated really good from start to finish by everyone,we also made some great friends out there including germaine!
the atmosphere was great in jamaica and watching some of my favourite thais fight live for the first time was awesome-yodsanklai--bloody machine you could hear the kicks in an open air massive stadium,he was landing 4 or 5 right uppercuts in a row which i have never witnessed a boxer pull off,his punches were devastating,malaipet was doing his best to survive and im glad it was stopped as he would have carried on all night just to please the crowd but it wasnt nice to watch.
lamsongkran-i think he broke the frenchmans ribs in the 2nd and decided to let it go the distance,the commentators give him stick,but he was pure class and a gent to his opponent in my opinion.
clifton appeared to win by split in my eyes as he landed very heavy shots in boxing but im no scoring expert, either way clifton can hold his head high as a gent and a representative for jamaica.
fight of the night was the aussie v ditch clash a heavyweight brawl with awesome fitness from both-full power start to end.
baxter humby-what else can you say but inspirational to the extreme.
patrice was huge,and everytime he shook hands with me i dissapeared ;-)
rick-pure gent,unlucky with a fowl blow,but took it well and didnt moan once.
germaine is one of the most respectful,nicest people i have met which is not what i was expecting,julie gave her a good fight but i have no complaints with the result,her boxing is devastating,but julie kept with her and was never looking in trouble and wasnt hurt,it was frustrating that the clinch sometimes was broken up too quickly but i am not an expert on scoring so cant comment,as for the fanning-gutting as other people were fanned after julies fight but in jamaica i was too relaxed to argue-irie irie-no problem mon.
im sure these two will fight again and im pleased that julie loved the elbow fighting more than b class rules and landed some crackers as i have never taught them before.as for her tactics-long teeps,switch left so easier to dodge the right hand straight punch and also power kick to body with left kick,dont box,close in with fake teep/long knee strong clinch and elbow on the break was the gameplan that i set for her,but germaine didnt commit and push forward as much as usual as she guessed our tactics,so it was difficult to stick with the plan.thanks to everyone for their support,even though julie was gutted when germaine said that someone had contacted her from england and told her to do everyone a favour and spark julie out???anyway it didnt happen and i am proud of julie for managing to go the distance and enjoy it .nath

Nath writes: 'in jamaica i was too relaxed to argue-irie irie-no problem mon.'

lol, lucky git.

Well done to you both Nathan, i was so gutted my pay per view didnt work hopefully they are sending me the fight!!!
Julie is a great fighter and now has fought the best and by all accounts held her own pretty well. Would be great if there was a rematch and i definatley would not miss it ha ha!

'ave got the fight. will email you the link Marianne :)

Well done Julie and Nathan. I was hoping you would steal the win.

Pisand i love you.
thanks

The commentators ruined it a bit as they didnt have a clue what they were going on about id like to see either of them go 1 round with Lam, that fight i made 45-50 there was some funny scoring on that one. The ladies fight was a lot closer i think 50-47 would have been a fairer result although some have said 50-48 i think germaine had 3 rounds but Julie could definitely win that fight now shes been in there and should believe she can win it.
I have always loved the style of clifton brown for a heavy guy he isnt clumsy and is nice+sharp and balanced followed his fight in superleague with interest definitely one of my favourite fighters over 78KG, however i cant see how with all the thai training etc they fail to understand that rounds 1,2,3,4 were not clear wins for clifton not just in my opinion but other top judges you cant really publish a card on a dvd of a fight as you cant see the kneework of brown properly and clearly enough to score it but the claim of a 49-46 win i think is inaccurate.

Agree with you Liam on the outcomes you've posted. I really appreciate Clifton's style too, but just didn't see the clear victory, or victory. I had it 50-48 for Kaoklai, him taking 4 & 5. Liam R - you had a 10*:10 for R4 tipped to Kaoklai, I think the reason I gave 10:9 was the cut, but rewatching R4 I see why you called it this way. No decisive winner. Not sure if the cut actually happened in R4 now.
But overall, really close.

Regarding Julie v. Germaine, I had the 50-48 for GvdR and really think Julie can pull this off. Germaine doesn't like to clinch and Julie had success there. The feared knees of Germaine never showed up. Just a few legkicks and punches, enough to pull out the win on points. But 50-45 isn't right IMHO.

its quite hard to judge from the angles they give and knowing how good julie is might have been a bit harsh on her 50-48 looks fairer, definitely not 50-45 no chance. Its hard to see the work of cliftons knees on the dvd also so i couldnt really give kaoklai winning more than 1 round, was a bit scrappy i just cant see 4 clear rounds won by clifton but i really wanted him to win this one i thought he would stop KK in round 2 or 3 and still believe he could in a rematch at his best.

Having now watched the fights, I completely agree with Liam that it is very hard to score really accurately given the camera angles. However, in the Farid v Lam fight (50:45) the first round was a draw but then Lam dominated completely with one eight count giving a two point round.

I thought Julie’s fight was close. Although Germaine did tend to control the fight and force the pace to an extent she didn't win big in any way. The camera angles shown means that it is not always clear to see if some knees in particular scored, but that said it seemed far, far closer fight than the judges scored it. I would agree with Liam and Stephen 50: 48 (or even possibly even 50: 49 depending if some techniques landed or not when the camera angle didn't show the target clearly) but definitely not 50:45.

I realise it may seem pedantic to talk about what seems to the general public to be a small point difference given that everyone seems to agree on the result. However, the difference in scoring between the judge's scores and Liam, Stephen and my scoring, represents a big difference in application of scoring criteria that could easily result in completely different outcomes with only a few additional techniques landing. This is important to consider in future fights between the two (and in other future fights)should a fight between the two ever come to fruition again. If correct Muaythai scoring criteria was applied there would have been a very different outcome if Julie could have landed just a handful of additional clean scoring techniques (good body kicks delivered on balance or straight knees). However, it doesn’t seem that would have been the case with the ringside judges who gave every round to Germaine. I would be interested what techniques the judges actually thought scored. Although both are excellent fighters, there wasn’t a great deal of scoring in the fight really as both fighters looked cautious and tended to evade each other’s techniques. Very, very few scoring body kicks were landed, only some scoring knees (neither kneed very strongly and predominately used round knees) neither boxer scored with any leg kicks. Germaine did score with some good punches that had real effect but was only ever a few blows ahead at any time during the fight. I thought Germaine won the 4th but only just edged the last (or even drew depending if some blows that were not really clear from the footage landed or not). Other rounds were pretty even.

Generally the referee broke the fight correctly except for the last round when it appeared Julie was about to knee to Germaine’s head. At other times the referee correctly broke the fighters as they were on the ropes and not kneeing effectively.

I agree with Stephen and Liam that Julie could definitely win against Germaine but would have to change fight tactics a little, being a little more proactive and using stepping long left straight knee and backing her to the ropes before body kicking. While it is always easy as an armchair coach and never so easy in practice, I think Julie would have had more success with teeps had she stepped in immediately with a second teep after Germaine avoided the first, as she only stepped backwards in a straight line to evade.

All said and done, both girls are a great advent for female Muaythai. Well done to both, true athletes and great fighters.

The promoter should be commended to assembling a great card and putting on a great show but I think should consider the judging for future shows given the quality of fighters competing.

I will judge Clifton’s fight but it is very likely I will agree with Liam and Stephen.

finally seen it (thanks so much Pisand) and just wanted to say that i dont think Germaine was subdued, as some have thought she was, i think for once, she was actually quite worried about her opponent and was just being very cautious. She couldn't employ her usual style against Julie and i thought Germaine looked quite frustrated especially in rounds 2,3 and 4. She managed to land some trademark punches but nothing was fazing Julie and Germaine is used to overpowering everyone she fights. She has had tough fights before but even then, usually by round 3 she has them exactly where she wants them but Julie wasn't intimidated. yes it was a different Germaine fighting, but that is down to how good julie is, not because Germaine was subdued. A rematch definatley needs to happen because Julie could take it, just my opinion!!
it was nice to see the respect Germaine had for Julie at the end also.
ps-i thought it was ftr, shouldn't knees to the head be allowed if elbows were allowed?

thanks tony,just watched it myself and was really pleased with the fight,im sure germaine and julie will rematch as they both like to keep busy and julie always likes to fight the people who beat her to see if she has improved in her training.im really pleased that you and liam thought that it was closer as i respect your scoring.nath

Tony Myers wrote: I would be interested what techniques the judges actually thought scored.

I would be too. In my humble opinion, I would bet that the few legkicks that landed were counted. I know I've had correspondence with both you, Tony and Liam R about the distinction between LANDING and SCORING and I think this is what these judges saw with legkicks. A few landed - one where Julie threw high, Germaine evaded and lightly cracked her back with no effect. To the judges that day, maybe they thought that was a strong scoring technique?

these links are off the k1 forum to download the fights

yodsaenkli vs malaipet
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CH9RXKMB

Germaine de Randamie vs julie kitchen
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CH9RXKMB

lamsongkram Chuwattana vs Farid Villaume
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3H7YHPR7

Clifton Brown vs Kaoklai Kannorasingh
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QV5DL7G2

) Rick Cheek (USA) vs Patrice Quattron (France)
IKF MuayThai World Super Heavyweight Title
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=EONWERGF

5) Germaine de Randamie (Holland) vs Julie Kitchen (UK)
IKKC Muaythai & WIKBA Women's World Lightweight Title
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CH9RXKMB

6) Lamsongkram Chuwattana (Thailand) vs Farid Villaume (France)
WBC MuayThai World Middleweight Title
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3H7YHPR7

7) Steve McKinnon (Australia) vs Ashwin Balark (Holland)
WBC MuayThai World Superweight Title
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=14BWKMTW

8 ) Clifton Brown (Canada) vs Kaoklai Kannorasingh (Thailand)
IKKC MuayThai World Cruiserweight Title
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QV5DL7G2

9) Malaipet Team Diamond (USA) vs Yodsanklai Fairtex (Thailand)
WBC MuayThai World Super Welterweight Title
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=A7SKSYBJ

"09 - Yodsaenklai Fairtex (Thailand) vs Malaipet Team Diamond (USA).wmv" (155.04 MB) waiting for download.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GALB150F

clifton writes "even by counting the numbr of shots with kickboxing clickers"

clifton i suggest you drop the clicker first and then learn how muay thai is judged! i think you may not understand how muay thai is scorred, you are not the only one, from the feedback and scores of other fights from the night it appears the judges didnt know either, i dont claim to be an expert but i know it has nothing to do with amount of shots thrown to who is decided the winner. if a smaller guy backs up the bigger guy(Like he did you) that shows a lot of strength in the ring and i dare say this made a far bigger impresion than counting the amount of shots thrown!

Quality over quantity.

Ok I'm not in to these conversations anymore... You guys know far more about MuayThai than I, I guess I suppose living in Thailand for 3.5 yrs doesn't mean knowing MuayThai, training for 11.5 yrs. 50 fights.

The reason why I suggested clickers was that one couldn't say I wasn't busy enough. I gave all my thoughts for why I won the fight above. It's a simple agree and dissagree...

I don't see any point in that entire fight where ANYONE can say the "smaller guy backed up the bigger guy" in that fight. I have nothing else to say except... The only Judge who gave me the win was the thai judge, a former fighter, and trained in Physical education universities as well. Also the Thai referee Nokweed, stated that he thought the fight was mine...

But I'm done... I have nothing more to say, My fights are in the ring...

training in Thailand for 3.5 yrs doesn't mean knowing MuayThai

training at lanna can do that for you bud trust me.

1. I won the first four rounds
no you didnt
2. I landed more shots
no you didnt
3. I landed the more effective, plus more power shots
50/50
4. I landed more knees in the clinch
yep
5. I pressed the action the entire fight/ ring generalship
no
6. They say in order to beat the champ, you really must win cleary. I didn't feel Kaoklai did anything that could of said he dominated the fight.
load of rubish both fighters are given equal criteria if its so close its a draw champo keeps it
7. If one were to say there was not many kicks, Kaoklai also landed very few kicks as well. Only landing a few more pushkicks should not be enough to take a champions title...

im not trying to goad you or be argumentitive but these statements are not correct, i too have lived in thailand for 3 years. that proves nothing half the shitty thai gyms dont know what to look for either.

Where did Lanna come from? Nice assumption.

From what I know, Clifton has trained at some of the tops camps in Thailand and that's not just an opinion it's a fact.

He was simply asking an opinion and your rebuttle was kind of rude.

Being at that fight, front row, ring side I can say it was razor close.
I do agree that if it's that close the Champion should retain the belt and we all know it works like that almost everywhere.

In my simple opinion the elbow that cut Cliff pushed it into Kaoklai's favour.

I believe he was only asking due the enormous amount of people (Thai's, professional fighters and Non-fighters) that came up to him saying he was robbed.

In any event, Clifton has always been a true Champion. Always displaying nothing but respect to everyone and taking his losses and wins with grace.

I think perhaps instead of just replying with assumptions and 1 word answers, it would be nice for Clifton if you had actually said what you felt happened, which rounds that were won or lost and why?

No one can deny Clifton brought the action, Kaoklai ate all his shots until the mid 3rd then became elusive. But Kaoklai NEVER pressed any action.

By the way Kaoklai accepted the weight difference so this 'little guy, big guy crap is simply that...crap. He took the fight, after that the weight shouldnt be an issue.

I am absolutely sure that you will see Clifton Brown again and again and again. I hope he rematches Kaoklai and we can see this laid to rest.

We in Canada are extremely proud of you Clifton, robbery or not.

Thank you,
Respectfully

Nice pic with Poone Paulinthailand.

Did you train at Nuong Siam long?

marianne i just didn't have the balls to say 'germaine was cautious' LOL

Just downloaded the Julie v Germaine fight.

Gonna judge it now!

Ok,
I watched it and this is my score card

10 10
10 10
10 10
10 9
10 9

winner Germaine 50 48

I think that the last two rounds were very close and that on a different day with slightly different tactics Julie has the tools to beat Germaine.

Body kicks didnt seem to happen which made the fight hard to judge as it often really came down to deciding whether Germaines boxing had effect or not.

Julie and Nathan should be proud

lol..this was my official score card! Back of half an envelope :)

LOL! Mine was identical Dave except on a napkin (serviette?).

never thought i'd see the word 'serviette'- correctly spelt - in ANY ax thread.

i dont dislike or even know clifton but he says he feels he was robbed and im saying he wasnt. iv trained with phon and doe for about 2 years. have you trained there muaytiger. the lanna thing was more meaning low quality gyms dont teach rules infaCT ALOT OF GOOD ONES DONT EITHER. the only real explanation of scoring techniques iv ever heard was from tony.

hows bangkok paulo? xan

thanks dave and thanks for everyones support,i know its late now but i know julie can do better than this and i think through her being a little over cautious stopped her committing to a lot of the stuff we had worked on but i think just being opposite germaine is quite scary,especially after that wicked entrance from germaine(glad we came out second).the dutch team said that no-one had been the distance with germaine in 4 years so im well proud of her as she wasnt hurt at all even though she looks like one of the goonies-

heey youu guuuyyz!

Hey Paul,
I was there for about 6 months.
Really great trainers. Plus all the guys were my size so the clinchwork was great!

I found out that the cut Cliff got was not caused by Kaoklai's elbow but rather the table when they flipped over the ropes. Too bad it was probably counted inaccurately.

Most people still think he won and I do too now..although very close I still think he won.
Just a matter of opinions.

I miss Nueung Siam... :( and all the people there...

Cheers

whats your name muay tiger? when was it you were there, im surprised i dont know you?

I havent been able to view the fight but I know that Cliftons knowledge of muay thai is probably above us all, having lost to him and also spending some time viewing tapes with him.

I really dont benefit from trying to back up someone on sites like this anymore because alot of people just dont know what they re talking about when they claim they do. Like another good friend of mine once said. " if you cant even judge or score 2 Thais fighting" you really have no place in talking about scoring Thai fights.

Having been given the fight by the only Thai judge, thats good enough for me to beleive that Clifton won.

Keep up the good work Clifton.

Hey Paul

I have not returned since 2004.

My name is Jenypher but they would call me Saengla or Denyphuuur.
lol.

I would love to return.

Are you there now?

David


2008-06-26 05:06:44 ( time)


David writes:


the dutch team said that no-one had been the distance with
germaine in 4 years

==Cheers, David. What The Dutch team told you is actually
not true. Maybe they just dont know..
But, At least 3 fighters have gone the distance with Germaine in the last 4 years. I know of three opponents of the top of my head,
and I believe there are some others:

1. Asako Saioka-Japan
2. Loly Munoz-Garcia-Spain
3. Maria Verjheim-Netherlands

I believe there are others...Not being argumentative
just trying to correct exaggerations and
inaccurate information.

But, I definitely agree Julie did extremely well, and I think she
fought a smart fight also-as Germaine is at the top of her game now
having broken Lucia Rijker's record, and only what 21 years old??

I also would not criticize Germaine for being cautious with Julie.
Thats smart.-in my opinion...

I would be cautious with Julie also- by keeping a good distance between us-like the Atlantic Ocean. :)

also going the distance with Germaine in the last 4 years:

Michaella De Mancini (italy) took Germaine the distance in Holland
in 2007

also Chajmaa Bellakhal went the distance with Germaine in December 17, 2005.
(2 and 1/2 years ago)


so there are five at least who took her the distance within the last 4 years

By using the logic that being ethnically Thai implies a fundamentally better understanding of the scoring of muayThai, well then, why not apply that to every other sport in the world? MMA should only be judged by Americans, kickboxing by the Japanese, Sanda by the Chinese, because anyone else's ethnicity will simply preclude them from truly getting it. That comment is rubbish, and the fact is Rex has been in the USA for nearly 3 decades. Not like he was judging in Raja yesterday.

As Liam R said this fight is not always so easy to see who scores what given some of the camera angles. I also agree with those who said the clicker system isn’t useful in determining the winner of this fight (or any MuayThai fight) but having judged the fight now, I feel Clifton did win. I will give a round by round break down for those who might be interested. I think the issue with those that scored it to Kaoklai have not considered Kaoklai losing position when hit. It doesn’t matter that there is a size difference, if a boxer loses position they get scored upon and the other boxer is considered more effective. Clifton did lose position himself at times but caused Kaoklai to lose position far more with a number of shots. This was similar to Duwao fighting a bigger boxer at Lumpinee last year. A number of the lads who generally have a good grasp of scoring thought Duwao had won because he had clearly hit his opponent’s body with more kicks. However, they hadn’t considered the relative effect of kicks in that case. In that fight, like this one, the bigger boxer had more effect when striking. Clifton did suggested part of the reason he won was because he advanced during the fight. However, on its own this is no guarantee of winning as a boxer who scores can do so moving backwards sideward or against the ropes. However, effect is important and Clifton is more effective. This is my break down round by round.

Round 1
Kaoklai scores with a teep. Clifton scores with a low kick. Kaoklai scores left body kick. Clifton scores with a punch as Kaoklai kicks. Kaoklai evades Clifton’s kick and counters but doesn’t score. Clifton attacks Kaoklai evades Clifton’s punches loses balance but no contact is made. Kaoklai scores left body kick. Kaoklai teeps no score but then scores well teeping Clifton over. Both boxers move into the clinch but although difficult to see from the camera angle it does appear that either boxer scores. Punching exchange no score. Kaoklai kicks but doesn’t cleanly make contact and the kick is caught and doesn’t score. Clifton teeps but Kaoklai side steps catches and counters with a low kick. The boxers move into the clinch and Kaoklai knees but it not clear if any score or not. Referee breaks the boxers. Kaoklai teeps but it doesn’t connect cleanly and the boxers move into the clinch. Clifton elbows but it doesn’t score. Clifton scores with a round knee. Clifton scores with another two round knees and Kaoklai attempts a knee but doesn’t score. There is a punching exchange without anyone clearly scoring. Clifton scores with a knee and throws Kaoklai to the canvas scoring well. Kaoklai body punches no score and punches again but without scoring. Clifton low kicks no real score. Kaoklai low kicks without scoring. Both boxers punch and have some effect scoring.The boxers clinch and Clifton scores with a knee. Kaoklai teeps as Clifton advances but doesn’t score and low kicks again without effect. Clifton punches and Kaoklai evades and moves into the clinch. Both boxers round knee end of the round. Clifton possibly but with only the slightest of edges so a draw is fair.
10:10

Round 2
Clifton kicks but it was blocked no score. Clifton low kicks and scored off balancing Kaoklai. Kaoklai low kicks no score. There is a punching exchange but no score. Kaoklai scores with a teep. Kaoklai low kicks but doesn’t score. Kaoklai moving backwards scores with a straight knee. It is not clear if Clifton scores with a punch or it is evaded. Clifton knees and scores. Kaoklai elbows but no score. Kaoklai teeps but doesn’t score. Boxers clinch and Clifton scores with a round knee. There is a punch and elbow exchange but neither boxer scores well. There are punching exchanges but neither boxer scores cleanly. Boxers move into the clinch and Clifton scores with three knees. There is an exchange of elbows and punches with some effect but with neither boxer dominating. Kaoklai teeps and scores. Kaoklai misses with a low kick. Kaoklai punches but doesn’t score. The boxers move into the clinch Kaoklai knees and scores. Clifton scores with three knees. Kaoklai knees but it is blocked. There is a punching exchange as Clifton backs up but not clear if there is a score. Boxers move to the centre of the ring and again difficult to see clearly but Clifton possible scores with a punch. Clifton knocks Kaoklai back with a punch scoring. Clifton moves into the clinch and scores with a knee. Kaoklai appears to score with a knee but not 100% clear. Clifton attempts an elbow and misses with a teep turns his back to attempt to evade an elbow that lands on his back. Kaoklai attacks with a punch and scores the boxer moves into the clinch. Clifton round knees weakly and doesn’t connect but then although a little off balance scores with a second round knee. Kaoklai scores with a punch. A second punch is evaded. There is a punch and elbow exchange with neither boxer dominating. The boxers clinch and Kaoklai knees but not clear if they score or not one knee does appear to score
Clifton wins the round 9:10

Round 3
Clifton jabs as Kaoklai teeps. Clifton scores with a body kick. Kaoklai jumps in with elbows as Clifton backs up. Kaoklai teeps to it’s not possible to determine if it lands or not. Kaoklai scores with an elbow. There is a number of punching exchanges where Clifton scores and one of which ends with Kaoklai on the floor but the referee is covering the action and so difficult to determine what happens. Clifton advances keeping good position as Kaoklai punches moving backwards but loses balance as he strikes. The boxers move into the clinch and fall through the ropes. The boxers get back onto the canvas and move into the clinch again. Kaoklai manages to turn Clifton and although doesn’t knee turns him and get around his back and the referee breaks the action. There is a punching and elbow exchange with Kaoklai losing position as he is forced backwards onto the ropes, so Clifton scores. The boxers clinch and Clifton scores well with two strong straight knees. Kaoklai attacks with an elbow and scores but appears to miss with a kick. Kaoklai clinches around Clifton’s waist and possible scores with two knees but it is not clear from the camera angle. Clifton kicks but it is blocked. There is a punching exchange with neither boxer is dominant. Kaoklai scores with a left round kick. Boxers move into the clinch but it is difficult to see if any knees scores. Boxers move into the clinch again but it not clear to see if anyone scores. Clifton wins a bigger round 9:10

Round 4
Clifton advances Kaoklai scores with a knee. It appears both boxers exchange knees but not clear if either scores. Boxers break and then move back into the clinch. Clifton scores with a round knee and then a third and fourth round knee . Kaoklai scores with a round knee. Boxers break. Clifton advances forward and Kaoklai teeps but falls backwards and doesn’t score. The boxers move into the clinch and Clifton knees but it is blocked and doesn’t score. Kaoklai scores with a teep. Boxers clinch and although it’s difficult to see clearly it appears Clifton scores with a knee. Referee breaks the clinch. Kaoklai scores with a teep. The boxers clinch but it is impossible to see if either boxers scores or not. Clifton advances and Kaoklai teeps but falls backwards and doesn’t score. Clifton misses with a spinning back fist. Clifton attempts a jumping punch. Kaoklai scores with a punch. Kaoklai scores with a left body kick. Boxers move into the clinch but neither score. Kaoklai teeps but it is caught and countered with a low kick. The boxers clinch and Kaoklai kicks but it’s not a clear score. Kaoklai punches but although Clifton loses balance it is not a clean punch.
Very close round 10:10

Round 5
Kaoklai teeps but no score. Boxers move into the clinch and both score with round knees. Elbows and punches are thrown but not clear if any scored. Kaoklai teeps to defend against a punch but doesn’t score. Clifton punches but Kaoklai dodges the punches. Kaoklai body punches but no score. The boxers clinch but it is not clear if either boxer scores. Kaoklai scores with a teep. Kaoklai scores with a teep to the face. The boxers clinch but neither score. Kaoklai scores with a body kick. Both boxers score with punches. Kaoklai get around Clifton’s back but doesn’t knee. Clifton jumps in but doesn’t score. Boxers move into the clinch but scores aren’t that clean. Kaoklai may have scored with a body kick but the referee blocks the view. Boxers clinch but no scores. Clifton scores with a punch. Kaoklai kicks to the body but gets kicked off balance.
10:10 or 10:9 Kaoklai possibly edges it but not clearly.

A fair score would be 47:49 to Clifton.

I am not sure what will be achieved by an appeal. Who will judge the appeal? The decision on the day was a split decision to Kaoklai. A rematch would be better with three good judges who understand scoring.

Bottomline: bad decisions are most often in the eyes of the beholder-who often sees it on u-tube or dvd, or worse yet, reads about it on the internet squawk boards.

Bad fight decisions, since the mid 19th century in western boxing, are alleged to have occurred in at least 25% of the time-including Thai Boxing, Western boxing, Kickboxing, K-1, San Da, amateur Olympic Wrestling, Shoot boxing, you name it.

Protests are at BEST an exercise in futility which only increases frustration, resentment, cynicism, disrespect for the sport as a whole, and ultimately Paybacks:

"I bad mouth your "questionable" win, then you bad mouth my next victory"

The end results of whinning and bickering: all close hard fought decisions are suspect, and all split decision or even UD victories are tainted at best. And the sport is perceived to be hopelessy corrupt, or at best political and lacking a modicum of professionalism. How does that help anyone???

This sucks!

I wish people, and fighters especially, would learn to accept disapointment if not gracefully, at least with a modicum of equanimity.

Stuff happens: get used to it.

"bad" decisions will never change- even if the MT intelligentsia (an oxymoron?) manage to agree on an MT Pontiff who issues scoring fatwahs that the whole wide world enthusiastically accepts.

There is life after bad decisions..if we will just allow it...

I wish people prtoesting this decision could see the tape of the Tagami vs Bennie "The Jet" Urquidez's final fight.

It was the " The Jets" last fight. He won the decision in las vegas after being decked several times and battered pillar to postfor the majorit fot eh 8 rd fight which allowed him to retire "undefeated"

The decsion was was ludicrous and disgraceful. Truly. I wish Clifton and his friends could see it.

Tagami beat Benny "The Jet" Urquidez like a rented mule. But it was a jury composed 2/3 North Anmerican judges and an American ref (Cecil Peeples) who ruled one of the knockdowns was actually not a knockdown because Urquidez's back side rested on the lower rope instead of the canvass.

after the fight, Bennie's Japanese opponent, Tagami, was asked in the center of the ring by the interviewer, if he thought he had won the fight.

with tears in his eyes, (knowing he had won) he rejected the opportunity to bellyache, or denigrate Benny the Jets "win" and simply said:

(paraphrased) "He respected the honorable judges and their decision, and said Benny was the winner"

And then got down on his hands and knees and bowed deeply and reverentially at the feet of his vanquished opponent, Benny Urquidez, approximately a dozen time:


Thats class, which is so lacking in too many of todays self important fighters

The world does not revolve around you and I or the trivial "injustices" life occasionally hands ALL of us.

Its time to put away the hankies and "man up"

nuff said.




.

"Tagami beat Benny "The Jet" Urquidez like a rented mule"


I like that :)

Does anybody have the megaupload link of Marco Pique vs Dieselek fight? Thanks!

Does anybody have the megaupload link of Marco Pique vs Dieselek fight? Thanks!

i was wondering if anyone had any footage of the jamaica behind the scenes filming and the pics that were taken of julie at the haunted mansion.i dont mind paying for them but didnt want to miss out on them as they were shot really good and there was some classic behind secenes footage that i would love to see.thanks nath

@ the forum of Mixfight.nl I made a complet photoreport of all the fights and backstage.

[img]http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1057/4173317/19919120/322090620.jpg[/img]

Photo's of the trip - http://www.mixfight.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=82759
Fightphotographs - http://www.mixfight.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=82943