Independent Board of Muay Thai Officials


Over the last several months several experienced UK based judges and referees have been looking to form an independent board of officials in an attempt to further improve judging and refereeing here in the UK.

We feel that, while officiating has improved in recent years, it could be improved still further with the coordinated effort of an independent group. Recent events have given us an incentive to move things forward more quickly than originally planned.

We feel there are numerous benefits to forming a board such as this:

1. As an independent group issues can be dealt with through the board rather than holding sanctioning bodies or promoters responsible.

2. Careful monitoring of officials can be implemented more easily.

3. Full training and annual assessment of officials will be driven by the board.

4. Correct scoring, rules and regulations will be an integral part of training.

5. Officials will be monitored to ensure consistency and professionalism.

6. A pool of professionally trained and assessed Referees and Judges will be available for all Muay Thai shows and any promoter who promotes Muay Thai.

I am therefore pleased to announce, with immediate effect, the formation of the IBMTO - The Independent Board of Muay Thai Officials.

MISSION STATEMENT

The mission of the Independent Board of Muay Thai officials (IBMTO) is to facilitate the development of the art of Muay Thai.

It strives to do this by:

1. Monitoring, interpreting and applying the rules of Muay Thai consistently, fairly and in keeping with the spirit of the sport.

2. Supporting the training, assessment and welfare of Muay Thai officials.

3. Supplying quality Muay Thai officials to promoters and organisations.

4. Educating all stakeholders (including fighters, coaches, promoters and spectators) on the rules of Muay Thai and their application.

STRUCTURE

The IBMTO will be tiered as follows:

IBMTO DIRECTORS
IBMTO SENIOR BOARD MEMBER
IBMTO NATIONAL REPRESENTATIVE
IBMTO AREA REPRESENTATIVE
IBMTO OFFICIAL

IBMTO DIRECTORS

We have 11 directors on board these are (alphabetically):

Paul Beaty
Shaun Boland
Dean James
Jompop Kiatphontip
Tony Myers
Parnpetch Rirom
Venit Kaewmala (Prathet)
Darren Phillips
Chris Podesta
Liam Robinson
Jesse Saunders

It is the board directors’ responsibility to ensure the professional running and structure of the IBMTO and through democratic voting to implement changes and improvements in addition to overseeing the training and assessment of officials.

As an independent body our officials would be free to officiate on any show sanctioned by any group that the officiating organisation deemed credible, we will deal with our own business and not have to report to any governing body.

The IBMTO will be conveying our first board meeting in the coming weeks and we will be formally contacting show promoters and sanctioning bodies.

If you are interested in becoming an official or wish to apply for a position within the IBMTO please contact me, Tony Myers or Darren Phillips in the first instance.

We will be setting up an official web-site but of course this will take time, so please be patient.

I expect quite a few questions will follow this announcement and we will strive to answer them on here or you can contact me on my E-Mail below.

SHAUN
Shaun Boland
IBMTO Director
Shaun.muaythai@gmail.com

Great idea, Independent is the key word i think.

Will the IBMTO have clear policys regarding disputed decisions? also will they be accesible to all?

Good luck with this, it can only be good for MT in the UK.

About bloody time too :D

Seriously, that's great news.


Rob

:-)
Good to wake up to after my post at 2am this morning.

Another positive step forward for UK Muay Thai.

Great work Shaun.

Good to see something positive coming out of recent events.

Great Initiative by people who care the most about UK Muay Thai, this will give alot of people faith and confidence again.

Best Of Luck

Skud

nice one,all good people so thats a good start,hope it works for everybody involved.

Cost? Criteria to be deemed credible? Running cost? Funding? Would it be wise to charge a levy to all promoters gyms etc each year. Maybe by teaming up with UKMF and they administrating the levy through membership.

It's about time heads where banged together at association level and get some disbanded and some merged. Only then will it be workable for the whole of the uk scene. TryIng to work with every association that springs up will be nigh impossible.

Jesus Nige, give them five minutes.

I think Ryan Rudkin should be there

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha.......entitled to your opinion i suppose

For a show will we be able to book ref and judges if were not looking to brand the show UKMF ect.

HoostFan
Posted: 2012-07-20 12:43:39

I think Ryan Rudkin should be there


/facepalm

Steve Broome: A redress policy will be in place and visibility would be posted on our web-site once it is up and running

Nigel: Running costs and funding are through our fees as Referees & Judges and in addition our training course fees so initially we are self-funded and non-profit.
As an independent board we will work alongside all governing bodies towards the mutual benefit of Muay Thai, however we will not align ourselves or be governed to one body.
Regarding credibility I think the current board of directors offer this.

HoostFan: All applications as an IBMTO official will be considered and followed up with a training course and assessment. If the applicant is already qualified then an assessment will be made prior to membership.

SHAUN

I think its a great idea. And certainly if the desire to succeed matches the skill set each individual currently offers then it'll be awsome. Having seen the on job skills of Tony, Jessee and Darren as Refs first hand and Chris, Liam and Paul as judges i cant fault the idea.

My concerns are those of the business model. Nothing can operate as a business on good will alone. As Nigel rather eagerly highlighted.....funding.

So get it right and be a success guys

So a percentage of the professional fees will be levied as campaign costs. thatd work.

Brilliant.

IBMTO = Confidence.

For promoters, coaches, fighters and spectators alike.

This is exciting news for UK Muay Thai.

What power would u hold over ukmf/iska/wrsa etc?
To change results, ban fighters

WHAT a breath of fresh air !!!! why did you not do this before.

With Tony Myres, and Shaun, stereing the ship, it can only end up in a good place.

Mark

When your up and running, keep us informed of what shows you will be on, as I would want my fighters fighting on your shows.


A little note for orgs that use these officials, I dont know if other clubs get this.

Fighters love Thai Belts like you get in Thailand, If you use proper Muay Thai officals, up to British champions try and change you belts to Thai ones, its what most want, I think !!! mine do, and will close the deal getting my fighters.

Fingers crossed it all works out.

PS, alright I might be a little gready, asking for the best looking belts aswell, but if you dont ask you dont get !!! Another old saying, which brings us to another - Sorry forgot I will refrain from doing that lol

Dave Mc: Simple answer is yes, the promoter can book us independently and we work with the governing body. We already have governing bodies agreeing to this and these will be put up in due course,

Dave Croft: Thank you. As a business model this is a work in progress and I certainly agree that good will alone will not be our criteria for success. So with careful planning, fortitude and good acumen we hope to be successful.

SHAUN

Great step forwards for the sport.

Positive move that should have significant impact.

Good luck to all concerned.

Andy

Shaun you may have misunderstood my question on credibility. I was asking for the criteria to be classed as a credible association. Not the credibility of the board.

I don't think there's a business to be had here past charging fees for courses. In theory it's what's needed but it's convincing everyone to conform. What you don't need to happen is someone go set up another version of this. The quality on judging and reffing seems to be there on this board. Not sure I see any stand out person for the business side of things.

Keepyerguardup: We do not hold any power over any governing body and have no wish to do so, we will work with them for the benefit of the fighters, promoters and coaches. All our score cards will be kept by us and should a redress be forwarded we would assess the scoring and offer our final result to the governing body. We will be solely responsible for the decisions regarding scoring and officiating.

SHAUN

NigelAsh: Very good questions, we haven't just banded the best officials in the UK and hoped for the best though. We have launched earlier than we anticipated due to the current events, however we do have a business plan which will be initiated through our next board meeting. There is still a lot of work to be done, however we have the structure and the right people on board to now get the proverbial ball rolling.

Regarding someone else starting a similar version of this, well that's business and it happens in everything. Look at how many sanctioning bodies there are in Muay Thai, Boxing and even Beefburger chains! All I can say is competition is healthy and wish them good luck.

SHAUN.

Very best of luck with this Shaun. It seems like a great idea, I hope you are well supported.

Thank you Neil. Just as a point, all directors are equal there is no one person in charge, just because I am the spokesperson by default I am not a CEO or President.We act as a democratic board and we vote on all IBMTO issues, hence why we have 11 directors and not an even number.

I will be signing off for today as I have other work to attend to. So please do not feel that I have abandoned this thread, I am sure Tony and other directors will write on here too in time. However please feel free to question on here or E-mail me and I will do my best to answer upon my return

SHAUN
shaun.muaythai@gmail.com

None profit - Business ??? Is there anyone else here seeing this.

The idea is not to make money. The idea to is to offer a body of officials who will have standardised skill levels. Everyone who knows Tony and has been on one of his course know the amount of research he has put into his work. His information is consistently being updated through his links with Thailand and the inclusion of several UK based Thai's will only improve this.

There will be costs involved, but these would be pretty minimal really I should think.

Dazza. Non profit or not for profit. Two completely different models. One of which does attract funding from various sources under certain criteria.

This independent association is also a way for sanctioning body's and promoters to keep clear of decisions and scoring and also as officials to know the judges/referees are all working from the same script as yourself and that you havnt got some lemon doing what he thinks is right.
The majority of sanctioning bodys are now jumping on board and I spent most of the morning talking to certain ORGS and have agreed this can only be good for the sport and there sanction.
As Darren and Shaun have already mentioned we have British based Thais and top thailand promoters/coaches working with the organisation this alone tells us what we are doing is the correct way forward.
As for the financial side the officials get paid for doing shows as normal with a reasonable set amount which tbh is cheap considering the flack the officials take at shows.

all the very best with this guys!!

I am pleased to announce that we have the support of the Golden Belt and IKF and are currently in talks with all other sanctioning bodies so this is a great start and I would like to personally thank Carl Samms and Alby Bimpson for their open mindedness, foresight and future support. We look forward to working with you.

SHAUN

brilliant news! definitely a move in the right direction!

Great news - will be in touch to talk for all future events.

Thank you Dan it is always a pleasure to work with you.
While I am on here I would also like to thank Paul Hennessy for the chat earlier and supporting us, we look forward to working with ISKA.

SHAUN

sign me up !

Thank you Sandy. Your IBMTO director is Darren Phillips so give him a shout for your shows and we will look forward to working with you as always.

whilst a good idea it seems like a reshuffling of the same cards

as the aim of the game in the uk seems to be to replicate authentic muay thai as seen in thaialnd..why not just have a group of 3-5 senior thais involved...how can something be independant if the board members compete in the chosen sport in the country and have a personal interest either in fighter/gym etc

if it was with some top thais kru yodtong kru toy, jitti etc...people that are highly regarded and respected in thaialnd then they would actually be independant of the uk orgs and would be well versed in authentic muay thai and how to officiate because it seems from your list you have tony myers, liam robinson and dean james in the same org...these are all from teh same gym and will basically be clones of tony myers...so why include them? do they often go against tony myers judgements because from what ive read they seem to talk about consistency and how they agree with tony...thats more like teh tony myers fan club than an independant org

thats not an insult to liam robinson, dean jame or tony myers..only mentioning names to make a pov

Hi Billybigconkers

We do have three Thais involved, all very experienced, respected and interested in ensuring we do authentic Muay Thai here. Far more interested than individuals who are not in the country and are not going to be able to train or monitor officials here.

The Thais we have on board are ParnPetch Sitpaphom was twice champion at Rajadamnern stadium and was twice awarded radjadamnern's most exciting fighter of the year award as well as at Lumpinee's. Jompop Kiatphontip, was a former number one ranked fighter at Ratchadamnern stadium, and last but not least, Venit Kaewmala (fight name Prathet Sor Thanikul) who has been ranked at Rajadamnern stadium and is a veteran of over 300 fights.

To add, by 'independent' we are not governed by sanctioning bodies we are governed by our board and are responsible for the training, assessments and providing of IBMTO officials.

We will also be responsible for any redress and queries of results and will have proper procedures in place that will be made visible to the parties concerned.

Let me be frank here, of course this is not a new idea and it is one that has been tried before in the past. However we feel that what it is, is an improved idea and one that will benefit Muay Thai.

There is no power struggle within our board as all directors are equal rank, there is no CEO, President or founder. We vote on all policies and democratically decide upon our decisions.

We are of the belief that every member will come with their own personal strengths and we want to encourage their success through a regulated format of training and assessments to ensure a high standard of officiating.

As this is the 'sport' of Muay Thai it has to adhere to it's rules and regulations for fair play. So our connections with Thailand are simply to ensure we are kept up to date with the sports regulations and any changes that might be implemented

Already in one day we have ISKA, IKF and Golden Belt happy to work with us, with others currently being spoken to. I have also spoken with and been contacted by promoters throughout the country who want to use us on their shows. So this re-shuffling of cards, as you call it, is in fact a brand new deck.

So if we do have a lot of 'clones' there are some who have been 'cloned' in this industry a lot longer than you or I ;-)

SHAUN

i think you understood my pov mr myers..have dean james or liam robinson gone against a decision you have made? its good that there's consistency in your students however for an independent org how is having 3 people that are affiliated and have teh same pov on the same board...all they will do is back your decisions..so with respect their inclusion seems redundant when you are on board

with non resident thais you have an independent org and where better to have a base than in bkk the home of muay thai when its muay thai they are governing

fact is you have rob in thaialnd that has given an honest response to how the wakeling fight should have been scored and who won as judged in thaialnd...this is why this independent org is gathering steam tbf isnt it

now most of you are still in the ukmf and for all your resident officials none of them seem interested enough in muay thai in this country to ensure that the fights are judged as they should be...so as i said its just a reshuffling of the same old cards with pretty much the same people involved again and again and you know what they say about history having a habbit of repeating itself

Can see your point but in the same breath most promoters and sanctioning body's have there own gym, if are fighters were fighting were not going tb judging/reffing are own, and before we start with the Tony Myers way it's not, Tony has took more time than most to question the top thai refs/judges and has the interview footage as proof from the horses mouth if you like, like Tony I also have taken sometime questioning the Thais and they have all came up with the same answers, it's not the Tony Myers way it's the traditional way of muay thai.
There has been so many recent and past problems and as a unit are trying to remedie these problems for the future of muay thai in the UK, it's certainly not for financial gain because were not making more money by doing this, we would still be making the same if we stayed as we are, the reason we are doing this is to improve the sport for all.

i understand what you're saying and i mean this 100% my comments arent an attack on tony myers, liam robinson or dean james or the way they officiate

but they are affiliated, 2 of them are actually active in fighting and tony myers and liam robinson both putting fighters on the circuit..if people can take off the rose tinted glasses or mates raybans, how can that be considered independent..the suggested independent org are full of people that have a financial interest in the sport..all the talk about nobody being paid and all having equal rank means sweet f.a if these people are given the authority to govern over uk mt..its a conflict of interests and is a contradiction to the term independent

Billy Big Conkers has it the nail on the head. I like Tony Myers a lot and his knowledge is the bench mark and with his research rightly so. But the independent thing is an issue. Dazzathai although I believe he's passionate about what he does and tbh he's an alright guy and I've known him a long time. But he's been in every association going and still nothing changes. This really needs to be his last stop and get to grips with what he actually wants to achieve.

The only cement that will hold all this together is money. If Barry Hearn does throw money in to MT then his style way etc etc will be the bench mark for MT regardless of adaptions or tweaks to the rules. The public will see MT as what he defines it as. I think this really needs to be thought of and maybe the remit broadened to accommodate such rules.

I myself have never judged in favor of sumone whose a friend etc, once I start judging I see scoring only and nothing more and I know my fellow officials would respect me more for that, can't see anyone on the board giving friends the wink, for a fighter they want the decision from winning only.
We have all worked so hard and only want the best for the sport and I have been on shows were there has been officials who have awarded the fights to friends and yes I questioned it only tb fobbed off with a lame excuse.
The new org is a way of stamping this out and I personally know I'm working along side officials who all want the same, a fair traditionally scored muay thai.
This organisation has had alot of thought from everyone on the board put into it over the last few months and as Shaun said there are eleven of us and every idea will have a vote.
I have worked along side both Liam and James and they are both fantastic judges who both have a great understanding of muaythai scoring anyone who knows me will always say I speak my mind and I'm always fair so believe me if there was any sort of secret handshakes taking place I would be the first kick off.
But I know these people and have never felt any need for concern, in fact when my girl fought sumtime ago Liam was judging and gave it to the other girl it was a very close fight I asked Liam how he scored it when I watched the DVD back he was 100% spot on.

So what are you gonna do lads? The bottom line is - everyone is affiliated in some way. The industry is too small for it not to be.
That is how it has evolved.

So just look at the track records, the intent and how it moves forward. What else can you do.

This is the first time that a collective have looked to move forward without belts, sanctioning and everything else that everyone looks to rip the ass out of looking for a conspiracy theory - and you are still looking for one.

Why not place a bit of faith in it. If you are wrong, so what. No one is going to expose you on the BBC for making that judgement.

It may just work and develop.

Good idea - good luck!

Firstly let’s look at the word ‘independent’, it’s a descriptive word that means ‘not influenced or controlled by others in matters of opinion’ So if you take the stance that Tony Myers will influence the opinion of other directors then they cannot be independent of their own thoughts, so that is a fair point.

However, independent can also mean ‘not subject to another’s authority or jurisdiction’ or in other words as is the case with the IBMTO, we are independent from governing bodies and work autonomously, therefore a subsidiary that functions as an autonomous unit.

This is why we use the word independent but I can see why you have become singularly focused on that one word and I hope that alleviates your concerns regarding our usage of it.

Your next point is that the organisation is full of people who have financial issues in the sport. It is a professional sport so I would think that a lot of people have financial issues within it; from charging students, to running courses and organising shows.

We get paid for officiating and we get paid for running courses, that hasn’t changed whether this organisation exists or not. It’s what we do, some for a living, some for extra income, some better than others. So I don’t really get your point, perhaps you could offer me better clarity on this.

Now my point of concern, you say that you are not attacking Tony Myers, Liam Robinson, Dean James or the way they officiate and yet you have singled out these individuals and used words like ‘clones of Tony Myers’ and ‘The Tony Myers fan club’. If not attacking as you say, then certainly you are being condescending.

All this aside though, the IBMTO now exists and with the people that I personally contacted and asked to join, so the choice of who was invited was initially mine and my very first choice was Tony Myers.

I then looked at who I had worked with and who had the right attitude and experience to be a part of the team. Everyone selected has individual attributes and strengths that I, and my fellow directors felt would contribute to the success of the IBMTO.

Now there will always be politics and there will always be people in an organisation who, for whatever reasons, are not liked by everybody. However, what is very evident on here by the reaction of many and the E-mails and calls I have received, is that there are more in favour of those that are on board than those who are not in favour. So I am happy with my choices.

In saying all this though, it is not a popularity contest of who is the best or most known or has the most friends (or clones). It is about doing something right and if you feel it is an old deck of cards being reshuffled then so be it, but like all decks of cards there are aces in the pack, reshuffled or not.

So, as with anything new, a leap of faith is always needed and that is evident by all the high profile promoters and sanctioning bodies that are now going to support us.

IBMTO is now here and we have a job to do and if you support us and believe in our principles then thank you. If you don’t, then thank you anyway because input gives us food for thought to ensure we get this right.

With regards

SHAUN

Hi Billybigconkers

As Shaun pointed out, we are independent of governing or sanctioning bodies. Carl quite correctly the sport is small and we all have some level of affiliations or association with others. Given we are all involved in the sport we cannot be independent in that sense. Nevertheless, the fact that we are associated with gyms doesn't mean that we can't put measures in place to ensure that fighters are judged by independent judges. By independent I mean in the sense they are not associated directly with the actual fighters they are judging.

The board members listed are part of the decision making team but will not be the only officials involved. We aim to use and train as many high quality officials as possible. The idea being that trained officials independent of the fighters they are judging will apply consistent judging criteria. A consistent approach means fighters and coaches know what they have to do to win. We aim to apply a system of scoring that is as close to that used in Thailand as is possible and practical for the UK. That system will be informed not only by my personal research but by Thai nationals who still have strong connections with Muay Thai in Thailand and have access to high level Thai officials for advice. Importantly they also have a cultural appreciation of the UK and the Muay This scene here.

I do understand why you may consider that Dean and Liam are likely to support my views on officiating, but they both are excellent judges, have their own minds and given they only represent two votes out of eleven on the board will not be able to 'rail road' any decisions through the board.

Nige, I know you are a shrewd businessman and intelligent observer of the sport. However, like me you can only guess what the future holds for the sport here in the UK, internationally and in Thailand. Big promoters and main stream television - should they take off - are eventually likely to shape what the sport becomes. Greater levels of commercialisation do have an impact on sports. All sport's rules are dynamic and responsive to external pressures although I do feel the way the sport is marketed is key to its overall success rather than any particular rule interpretation or application.

I just feel that we should not use uncertainlty as an excuse for inaction. We can't know what the future will bring but we can try to improve what we have at present and attempt to deal with what the future brings in an intelligent way - when it actually happens.

The Independent Board of Muay Thai Officials has to prove itself, only time will tell whether it is able to achieve all its aims. All I can say with any certainty is we are going to give this our very best and try to raise the bar by producing high quality officials who are fair and consistent.

As a postscript to another point you made;
'... now most of you are still in the ukmf...'

No board director is currently working directly for the UKMF.

However we have approached them the same as we have approached other governing bodies, with the view to work alongside each other.

If a board directors club is a member of the UKMF that is their choice as to who they wish to be licensed with and has no bearing on our policies.

We are not a sanctioning body, we function solely to provide officials 'independently' from governing bodies and in addition provide training and assessment of those officials.

Please refer to my opening statement at the top of this thread for a better understanding of what our aims are.

SHAUN

shaun

i understand you are independent from any org but you are also not cutting any current ties...thats what i take from reading between the lines, so as long as the ukmf pays you guys to officiate and are happy with you forming an independent group then everythings hunky dory
...so in reality whats changed?
its pretty much the same officials as pre-wakeling robbery and i imagine whilst you can have your own views as the ibmto that any org will still be free to bring in foreign judges in the event of international fights
...so what will have changed apart from a few of you now calling yourselves ibmto directors
...reading between the lines if rudkin wants in thats fine too

...so whats changed? you can talk about aces being in a pack but if they were in the hand last time and they sound like they were(as they are so respected and well regarded) then whats changed? and using the same play you also get some jokers in the pack...but rudkin hasn't been blackballed and is free to apply..so whats changed?

i cant understand how you can justify having 3 directors from the same gym with all 3 involved in the current fight circuit as non officials and claim to be independent
....its not a question of their credibility but if you want to be credible then this wouldnt have happened..any 1 of the 3 as directors and all 3 as members but to have 3 affiliated directors on a board that officiates muay thai in the country is flawed from the start

me calling liam robinson and dean james tony myers clones was in reference to their officiating in muay thai (always agreeing on results etc the fan club reference was the same intention but also highlighting their gym relationship as well as the 3 of them making up an 11 man team at the ibmto it wasnt to rip into them

nice posts tony and shaun

i wish you luck with it, your hearts in the right place and i hope it all works out fro the best

Great concept. We need to consider mirroring this in USA.

Thank you Stephen, you have mail.

People look at it this way, anything has got to be better then what we already have, and if it stops things like 7th july 2012 ever happning again, happier days for Muay Thai are to come.

I belive In Tony & Shaun, would not allow foul play, even for personal rewards, I know for sure Tony would rather his fighter lose, and go back to the drawing board, then cheat and commit foul play.

Shaun, I think I have only meet once, at a ukmf meeting in birmingham, but after his writing on the other thread, seems like a man, that searches for honesty, and fair play.

Dean James, seems to me, a really staight humble, and honest man, that loves Muay Thai.

I really dont think Tony would start up such a thing without trusting the people and there abilitys, to move this forward.

I say give it a go, def nothing to lose, so only something to gaine, or we stay were we are, and thats frightning.

What do we really want ? fare play !! and when do we want it ?

RIGHT NOW. If its not what it seems the orgs go back to there own officials, If it does what it says on the packet, we keep it, embrase it, and say Muay Thai just got better.

KEEP IT HONEST, CLEAN, AND SHOW FARE PLAY, I'M WATCHING YOU lol

The UKMF do not pay the officials as neither do any of the governing bodies. It is the promoters that foot the bill.

As for severing ties, if an organisation is working towards the benefit of Muay Thai then we are happy to support it. However if it is proved that an organisation is not doing this then of course we would not be supporting such a group.

The only official that was on the Wakeling v Levin fight that is an IBMTO director is Chris Podesta. The other two were WMC officials bought in by the UKMF.

We are not in a position to 'blackball' anyone unless a misdemeanour has been proven. The current Wakeling v Levin enquiry has not been officially closed yet and answers are still pending. However if such a situation arose then it would be put to the board of directors to vote on.

Everyone can apply to become an official but it isn't just as easy as that. Firstly there is a course to attend followed by an exam and assessment.

The successful candidate then goes through a process of shadow judging alongside an experienced and qualified Judge. Once they become more competent they are licensed to judge C class fights, after a qualifying period this is upgraded to B class then A class. The official is then annually assessed to ensure the standard is kept and no bad habits are formed.

Your answers regarding board directors are in the above threads but if you are adamant that it is wrong then we will just have to agree to disagree.

With respect

SHAUN

Thank you Mark. I think many will be watching us! lol

Thank you Mark. We will no doubt make some mistakes along the way but we aim to minimise them, learning from past experiences where possible and dealing with things in as professional a way as we can. I personally think being as open and transparent as possible and applying clear guidelines is the best way forward.

I sincerely hope that this is the beginning of some sort of stability for our sport, theres to many cliques and back scratching at times.

Having not had the chance to digest properly all recent posts, this one in particular stands out:

'I just feel that we should not use uncertainlty as an excuse for inaction. We can't know what the future will bring but we can try to improve what we have at present and attempt to deal with what the future brings in an intelligent way - when it actually happens'

Spot on Tony.

How do you guys tend to deal with the insurance/legal aspect of the referee?

As the referee is deemed the person taking the duty of care for the two fighters in the ring. Will the referee's insurance cover and overlap with other peoples policies?

I like the concept of this idea, and would be interested in knowing what the training of referee's is, or will be. As most involved have had only on the job training and no formal training, and this really does show.

Good luck with it all, let me know if you want any help.

Thankyou for your interest Ryan, as far as insurances go these are small matters which are being ironed out as we speak ( just a phone call) formal experience hmmm I presume that statement is aimed at certain officials on the board must be aimed at someone you know because you don't know myself or background, bit of a sly comment worded nicely but let's just say actions speak louder than words and every official on the board have proved there worth on many occasions and are highly regarded, as for your help hey thanks, the offer is much appreciated me personally though I'm ok but I will see if the Thais will take you up on your offer for advice ;-)

Nice shooting Paul, lol at the entire last post

Ryan, that is a really dirty,low little swipe. How can you of all people question, these officials, if they run for the next thirty years, they could not bring the game into disrepute, like you did on the 7th july 2012. Your rule as head official on this show, made uk muay thai a mockery.

What a nerve, every one on that board, are worth a thousand of you.

Sorry I will try and stay of this thread,but had to say that.

Mark

It was a real question, not aimed at anyone.

That would be a waste of my time.

And again if you want Any help let me know.

Why would they want help from you ? Your half the reason this need to happen. Best thing you can do is stick to training your kru master ajarn diplomas for bellends.

What could you offer to a tabble like that Ryan. That is a real question ??? Actually dont answer it !!!!

It would be like a porper going up to King Arthers dinner table, and saying If you give me land I will give you a apple.

But if you open your eyes, you will see he has 10,000 apple trees in his garden.

NO sorry serious !! Ryan that tables knollage would drown yours 10 million times over. The knollage you would bring, would be what they have already thrown out as outdated and usless.

You Insult part of the board, and sugest they could need your help. Complete joke !!!!!

LOL, Ryan, I dunno if you noticed but theres a few other threads on AX, and all of them slate you. No one likes you Kru Master Ajarn Stephan Foxes little bitch.

Paul 123 it is not that no one like Ryan, it is just sheep like you that follow the crowd. I do not personally no Ryan and a bet you dont either. Mark you steel every thread still going on about the Levin fight, I was at the fight at the O2 and personally thought you acted like a complete prick, it is funny how everyone is slagging off Ryan but not one person has commented how you acted after the fight. Sorry for going off the thread but I am just sick of hearing the same old shit on every thread.

So go back to the thread where it's happening and let the rest crack on with the task on this one. Unless that is, you have something to contribute?

The only thing he has to contribute is Ryans jizz from his lips ;)

haha

Come on guys there plenty of sledging on the other threads this is a positive one.

Ryan
Thank you for your enquires. Regarding our insurance, we have consulted a specialist insurance broker and have been advised accordingly and will be covered.
With regards to the training of referees and judges we have the right people on board to implement this.
Thank you also for your offer of help, does this mean that the UKMF are happy to work with us alongside the other sanctioning bodies that have express their mutual cooperation?

SHAUN

Will this be the end of the ukmf?

I haven't thought through the complete implications of this thread, but my instincts commend you all for what seems a positive and passionate action given the unsatisfactory situation currently. Also given the fact that most of Directors I have known personally and trusted over many years, you have my and the gym's support in whatever way that is appropriate at this stage. Thank you All for this initiative.

CLIFF, Diesel Gym

End of the UKMF? I don't think anyone truly wants that - personal frictions aside..... They have done some good, and have potential to be more...... But now UK MT are saying earn our support not expect it.... We're going to try o make it a level playing field.

End of the UKMF? I don't think anyone truly wants that - personal frictions aside..... They have done some good, and have potential to be more...... But now UK MT are saying earn our support not expect it.... We're going to try to make it a level playing field.

Were hoping it dosnt ruin the UKMF they have done well as a sanctioning body, but hope they see the independecy of officials as a way forward for muay thai in the UK it's a way these ORGS can stay away from the politics of scoring/decisions and keep there own hands clean, promoters I've spoken too already have welcomed the organisation with open arms and have stipulated they want are officials on future shows were hoping sanctioning bodys like the UKMF, WBC etc see this the same way.
We want to improve the sport not ruin sanctioning organisations but hope we can all work together under one umbrella of muay thai scoring.

Hey Shaun,

I do not speak for them, unless employed to do so.

This was an enquiry from myself.

Ryan

What a great idea but while your at it why not change the whole thing and start at the begining? This seems like a good start(more needed)of a board for uk muay. ONE organisation, our own council with one set of rules, no mickey mouse titles, uk rankings ect/. Elections every year to keep thai boxing fresh with new ideas. These could be paid jobs professionally run at no profit, everything ploughed back in, no greed or corruption unanswered by the council. Set purses for a,b,c and n class paid milage rate set ect/ this may seem familiar to you who know how the ABA works but with a few tweeks why not for thai boxing.Lets start here.

Maybe we should go for world peace instead ;))))

With the application of a governing body for officials, we can look forward (I am sure) to a constantly monitored professional level of judges and referees.
Its quite clear for this to work long term, there will need to be an element of "member" fees to support the organisation, however this should be perfectly acceptable to anyone wishing to receive the back up along with the wealth of experience listed on the above board! :)
I hope this organisation will also implement a monitoring system including reassessment of current and future officials.

Independant - LIKE !

All officials will be re-assessed every 12 months . All new officials coming on board will also have to take an assessment , which they have to pass.then they will work up through the system like the fighters. C,b and a class

I like that last idea of a ranking system for officials to go along with the fighters.
Plus, offer memberships and sponsorships, but becareful since sponsors and members can alter the integrity of the org.

Eitherway, it seems like a good idea, but it will need alot more work than just having the best officials involved. Try inviting fans to get involved.

Does that mean all future judging courses will be accredited IMBTO?

Does that mean all future judging courses will be accredited IMBTO?
As in those held by IMBTO directors

great concept this just dont like the name
shake it up a tad and reduce the letters IMO ( thats not the new one BTW ) or that lol

maybe
imtb
Independant muay thai board

imbc
Independant muaythai board of control

just a thought x

JON BARWELL: Nice ambitious idea and although it would be great to have an overall governing body for UK Muay Thai I believe that this is what the UKMF are aiming to achieve. IBMTO has simple aims as seen in our mission statement above:

1. Monitoring, interpreting and applying the rules of Muay Thai consistently, fairly and in keeping with the spirit of the sport.

2. Supporting the training, assessment and welfare of Muay Thai officials.

3. Supplying quality Muay Thai officials to promoters and organisations.

4. Educating all stakeholders (including fighters, coaches, promoters and spectators) on the rules of Muay Thai and their application.

SPIRIT MUAY THAI:
We will be running accredited IBMTO Judging & Refereeing courses and annual assessments for all IBMTO qualified Judges & referees.

JOE TOE: Membership to the IBMTO is as an official and the above courses need to be passed to qualify.
We are looking into a course on 'How to score in Muay Thai'. This will be a non-certified course aimed at increasing understanding and knowledge in Muay Thai scoring so it certainly could be open to fight fans so that hey can have a better understanding of the sport and increase their viewing experience.

SANDY:
IBMTO says what it is on the tin. We are a board of independent Judges & Referees who will work together with promoters and governing bodies to facilitate the development of Muay Thai.Changing the name and adding 'control' or removing 'officials' would imply we were something different.

We do have a lot of work ahead of us but the foundations are already there. That is why we were capable of launching earlier than planned. Promoters & organisations are already booking us up for their shows so this has been a great start.

SHAUN

SHAUN

great idea shaun i'm all for it as the saying a new brush sweeps clean i think this will be a breath of fresh air for uk muay thai and is a step in the right direction for the sport can u email me some details please my email is on my profile because this is something i would like to get involved with, after sitting tony myers judging and assesment course it opened my eyes to how fights are scored and how i should score fights in the future and where i had gone wrong in the past chok dee shaun and everybody involved and onwards and upwards for uk muaythai

I think this sounds like a really positive step forward for muaythai in the UK and I hope to get involved if I can. The directors hold a great pedigree and I for one have great confidence in this and hope it proves as successful as the potential would suggest x

Kru Shaun,
All I have to say is "good stuff."
I think Muay Thai education is just as important as physically training.

Will this be going international, or is it just a UK thing for right now?

Hi Joe,
Hope all is good on the other side of the pond? We need to keep our feet firmly on the ground for now and concentrate on home soil. If the template works well, then there is no reason why we wouldn't ambitiously look at moving further afield. After all, Muay Thai is a global sport. However, that is far in the future and we still have a lot to do here to make this work.

SHAUN

sin bins?


ie: going to a show / interclub etc:
and not proper criteria in force !
Can there be a report of them and then some member ibmto contact them and be warned? in a nice but firm diplomatic way


for eg:
no Doctor? or no paramedics?
or
Late starting shows
poor officials ( made up on the day from crowd / trainers etc:

etc: etc:


Raise the Standards
lose the deadwood

Hi Sandy,
These ideas are perhaps better put forward to show promoters or sanctioning bodies. As for having poor officials, well, that's one of the reason s we are set up, to avoid all that.
SHAUN

A big thank you to Steve Humphrey president of the WRSA (World RingSport Association). They will be working with the IBMTO alongside ISKA, IKF and The Golden-Belt.

SHAUN

thanks Shaun goo point and answer as always :-)

And good to have Stevehumphries wrsa on board, ive always got on with Steve and his wife / team And good too re; Golden Belt
as i do feel Both these have come under a lot of stick over the years but it has to be said even through that they have sat up and ALWAYS tried to listen and develop and also in fairness to them have used on many a event Good & independant Officials anyway !! so....
Nice-1

I am pleased to announce that the organisers and promoters of the forthcoming show 'Thai Fight Extreme' to be held at Leicester City Football club will be using all IBMTO officials.

This will be an amazing show with the following line up:

Armin Pumpan­muang Windy Sport vs. Abdal­lah Mabel
Liam Har­ri­son vs. Dylan Salvador
Singma­nee Kaewsam­rit vs. Houcine Benoul
Saiyok Pumpan­muang Windy Sport vs. Reghi Issam
Sud­sakorn Sor. Klin­mee vs. Craig Jose
Buakaw Por Pra­muk vs. Abdoul Toure
Jor­dan Wat­son vs. Hamed Assan
Michael Dicks vs. Crice Boussoukou

Thai Fight Extreme 2012 will be held at King Power Stadium on Friday 17 August, with doors opening at 4pm and the first of eight exciting bouts getting under way at 5pm. Admission will be limited to ages 10 and above.

General admission tickets will be priced £10.00

Go to www.lcfcdirect.com or call the City Sales Centre on 0844 815 5000 to secure your tickets now and stay logged on to lcfc.com for the latest information in the build-up to this extraordinary event bought to you by Leicester City Football club owners Mr.Vichai and Mr. Aiyawatt Raksriaksorn and the Thai Ministry of culture

SHAUN
Shaun Boland
IBMTO Director
shaun.muaythai@gmail.com

Some good coming froma farce.
Nice to see.
All the best with it.
Unlike some, at this point even I can't think of some way of taking the pee.
Bugger!!!

100

and great news Shaun..
also

Shaun please can i commentate?
ive been trying to contact the Promoters but e-mails bounce please ring me today about it cheers sir

sandy just buy a ticket.lol
i dont imagine shaun has the say so on who commentates

Ibmto
Board of officials
That is all we supply.

Hi Sandy,
From what I know Rob Cox is commentating buddy, as stated I don't have any say in the running of the show, we are just providing officials. See you there? :-)

Sandy Please stop begging to on every thread it's not very dignified.

hahaha

After Thai fight in Leicester I have some reservations with integrity but it's a new organisation lets gave it a chance to find it's feet.

and what are your reservations ?

hoost fan its called `passion` and if you dont ask you DONT get !



and
georgies Dad what reservations???

hey sandy looks like you have accidently posted this pic on all threads! give me another look at that one of you and jacky chan have not seen that in at least 2 weeks!lol

I'm just trying to piece it together in my head how a meet and greet and photo with buakaw turns into sandy holt conducting interviews with a mic in btbc and a thai restaurant
...did anyone get a partial refund? wasn't marketed as the sandy holt show..unbelievable

like the little britain sketch rippin dennis waterman " i can write the theme tune"

..."i could be so good for you doobie doobie doobie doo"

Integrity of course pertains to an adherence to moral and ethical principles so to have doubt in that interprets as to an under-confidence as to our Moral and ethical intentions.

As you say after the 'Thai fight' show I can only conclude that you saw something both morally and ethically wrong with how we conducted ourselves as officials at the show.

The officials were:
Myself - as judge and time-keeper, Tony Myers - referee,
Jompop - referee, Parnpetch - judge, Liam Robinson - Chief judge, Paul Beaty - judge

If you have seen either an individual, or we as a group, behaving immorally or without ethics at this show then I would appreciate you contacting me without hesitation to address this unless your understanding of integrity is at flaw in which case I can only surmise that you have diverging intentions towards your comment.

Either way drop me an e-mail so that I can offer you reassurance towards our ethics and moral standing.

SHAUN
shaun.muaythai@gmail.com

Oh Shaun you are sooo clever, the way you explain words that everyone knows the meaning of already offers such an insightful insight into the underlying way that the brain matter of a kru converts message and radio waves from the central nervous system into waffling bollocks.

That photo.......apart from the grotesque abnormality that is Sandy's hair.....anyone else notice that a deformed Siamese twins legs are hanging out of Buakaws back there........ ???

...not sure but they look female..... or as he's Thai could easily be that his conjoined twin is a Lady bloke....

someone tell him Muay Thai is 8 points of contact and not 10...so hes been cheating all these years then aint he !!!

Thank you for your phone call 'geordiesdad' was good to chat with you and I am glad I assuaged your concerns. Catch up on the circuit my friend. Regards to Craig.

SHAUN

They are the legs of "sandy's girlfriend" wink wink

Pom Deng it is just some person sitting behind and you know that so use the other one.