K-1 Kickboxing : Liam Harrison & Co.

Liam, LiamR, Andy and Johnny…

The following was released onto the ‘OFFICIAL’ K-1 website, 1st August 2012.


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About:
K-1 is the Largest kickboxing Promotion in history. Since 1993, K-1 has presented professional live martial arts events in 38 countries featuring the best and most accomplished athletes in the sport.

World Grand Prix Champions of K‐1 include Alistair Overeem, Mark Hunt, Ernesto Hoost, Peter Aerts, Remy Bonjasky and Semmy Schilt. K-1 has held broadcast deals with ESPN and HDNet in the United States, Fuji TV in Japan, and numerous other networks across the globe K‐1 returned to the world stage on May 26, 2012 in Madrid, Spain drawing a packed stadium and hundreds of thousands of views on the K‐1 Live Stream.

For more information on K‐1 please email info@k-1.tv.

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Source for this at the following on the Official K-1 WEBSITE:

http://www.k-1.tv/en/MillervsMayFINAL.pdf#zoom=100

http://www.k-1.tv/en/news-list.php

"K-1 ANNOUNCES OFFICIAL MATCHUPS, ADDS HEAVYWEIGHTS JARRELL MILLER vs. JACK MAY TO K-1 RISING U.S. GRAND PRIX CHAMPIONSHIP " !!

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Most interesting is the following sentence from the above paragraph.

"ABOUT:
K-1 is the largest ‘KICKBOXING’ in history."


K-1 officially state that K-1 is a form of KICKBOXING, just as I clearly explained to you guys several times.

No essays, just facts facts that I politely explained to you guys recently, only to have you disagree that I was wrong and that you were right.

So I suppose, as K-1 Global are officially stating that it is a KICKBOXING promotion, involved in the sport of KICKBOXING then the following facts stand.


K-1 is a KICKBOXING promotion, therefore it promotes KICKBOXING contests.

K-1 is a “KICKBOXING” format, as recognised officially by K-1 global.

K-1 fighters are refered to as KICKBOXERS

If you have a K-1 style bout on your show,…….then you have a KICKBOXING bout on your show.

If you compete to K-1 style KICKBOXING rules, …..then you are competing in a KICKBOXING contest.

Oh and just for good measure, as K-1 KICKBOXING includes the use of the KNEE-KICK, then this must mean that you can in fact knee during certain formats of KICKBOXING.

An apology by you guys is well over due, but I don’t expect one.

Still people can always read the stupid statements that you wrote and conclude who was in fact in the right.

Neil

iv already stated i dont actually care what it is i just like winding you up cos your as tool so go but your gi and your blackbelt on and do your werewolf style judo karate dragon kickboxing.

iv also said it easier for joe public to relate it to something like kickboxing as no one would know what k1 was. i thought k1 was a mix of everything thats why it had p[eople in it from all different backgrounds. and if its kickboxing why in k1 max have the 2 previous best both been thai fighters and uks 2 top thai boxers just been signed to it....go put your judo suit back on im not replying anymore im bored.

LOL Not another thread on this subject.

Well I imagine your opinion must have changed somewhat now, with Howsen fighting for the K-1 'Kickboxing' promotion and Watson figjting for the GLORY 'Kickboxing' promotion. Both Kickboxing formats, that allow knee-kicks ( as do ItsShowtime, KRUSH and SuperKombat )!

You guys slated me for mentioning this on the thread about the £5'000.00 Prizemoney Kickboxing Grandprix Tournament I am promoting Oct 28th at the Parr Hall ( now £6'000.00 prize money, as I have added a £1'000.00 best ko of the night bonus ).

There was no need for it - but you did this anyway - and continued on other threads about ItsShowtime or GLORY, and in the process posted several incorrect comments.

K-1 is Modified-Thai did you call it?

Well mate it is not, Kickboxing K-1 style it is.

Forget 'C' class, 'B' class, Modified Thai 'class'. Because this is western non-sense and not as you will see in the stadiums of Thailand.

Really you should consider stopping using 'Modified Thai' as a name for the K-1 Kickboxing format, as it is not a style of Muaythai, but a format of kickboxing.

F.T.R. Muaythai is real Muaythai, and K-1 style is Kickboxing.

Anyway, I am pleased for Andy and Jordan - I hope a career in Kickboxing goes well for them. Equally pleased for Tim Thomas - as I always cheer for the Brit!

Have a nice day.

It is a FORM of kickboxing. I think some people refer to Muay Thai as a FORM of kickboxing so get over yourself. They're not actually stating its pure kickboxing. What a childish thread to start.

Liam badco
Posted: 2012-08-07 03:23:40
"and if its kickboxing why in k1 max have the 2 previous best both been thai fighters..."

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Because people cross over into different sports. If a Muaythai fighter competes in MMA, he is still a Muaythai fighter, however his not competing in Modified-Thai hes is competing in MMA.

Likewise if a Muaythai fighter crosses over into K-1 then his is still a Muaythai fighter, however hs is not competing in Modified-Thai, he is competing in Kickboxing.

This can be true also for a Muaythai fighter, that takes a Boxing match. He is still a Muaythai fighter.

Still - probrably wasting my time politely explaining to you, and you will come back with a childish attempt at an inflamatory remark.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, who actually cares?

If a fan watches a Muay Thai fight then they'll know what they're getting.

If a fan watches a K-1 fight they know what they are getting.

If a fan watches a Kickboxing fight they also know what they're getting.

All different in their own right.

No one cares if K-1 is modified thai or Kickboxing. However, It's obvious to see that it's put together so it brings various fighters from different discplines together. So instead of arguing over whether it's kickboxing K-1 or modified Thai, just get behind the fighters involved, surely that's all that matters?

Thaijim and Muay1,

Both of you post have valid points. However, Liam and some others took quite a diff attitude, and on some threads that I posted on that had nothing to do with them ( they were about my Kickboxing GP under K-1 style Kbx rules and allowing knee-kicks ) - decided to 'care' about what was correct and incorrect, and looked to 'correct' me.

When it transpires that.... K-1 regards itself as a Kickboxing promotion - as it clearly does, with its Aug 1st post on its official website.... Or when it transpires that under official K-1 rules Knee-Kick is a recognised technique.... It seems that it was them, and not myself that was a.... Plantpot ( I think those were liams words ).

Liam, and some others on AX think they can just swagger around dropping dis comments about people and everyone will just be scared of their cyber-bullying.

Liam and Co, know full well I was right all along now - so if the thread was closed, I would not care.

:)

Well in life that is not always the case.

waiting for the dis mixtape to drop

Och Neil give it a rest. Everyone knows K1 isn't kickboxing because kickboxings shit.

You're right about alot of what you post Neil and it's obvious you are passionate and have a lot of knowledge in this area, but it seems you're taking it all too serious. I don't think they're bullying, it comes across like they're winding you up because it's too easy to? I might be wrong though.

you are not wrong lol...wolfstyleblackbeltjudo WAR

Just out of curiosity...what is your fight record in K-1, Muay Thai, Kudo, Karate and Judo? (Have I missed anything out?)

Oh yeah...and Windy Monkey

do do doooooooo , dooo do dooooo........do do dooooo , do do doooooo do. do do doooo , do do dooooo. dooooo , doooo , doooo.


DU DU DUN DU DUN!
DU DU DUN DU DUN!
DU DU DUN DU DUN!
DU DU DUN DU DUN!

Consider this scenario - you must answer in a quick friendly non jargon sentence

A guy who has never done anything before walks into you gym wanting to start "martial arts"
you tell him you train muay thai.
he asks what is muay thai?........what do you say?

later same situation but the guy asks...what is k1? what do you say?

If a guy asks what Muay Thai is you should say it's a very old martial art which originates from Thailand. The pure Thai art (which includes elbows and knees to the head) is practised in the UK by experienced fighters and this is called A-Class, but we also have slightly modified rules for less experienced fighters (B & C Class).

When explaining K1, I personally always say it is similar to Muay Thai but there are no elbows at all, no clinch and you can only knee once and then you have to let go.

You could go into more detail (3x3's V 5 x 3's, punches and kicks scoring equal unlike Muay Thai) but this is it in a nutshell, you don't want to confuse a complete beginner, he'll piece the finer details together later on as he gets more involved.

What is Karate?
What is Wing Chun?
What is Zuma?
What is Jazzercise?

If someone came into any class and asked this question surely as the instructor you would know the answer to that?

Just to help though:

Muay Thai is the national sport of Thailand and is a full contact International sport that is governed by rules and fought in a boxing ring.

It is classed as the toughest stand up fighting sport in the World and many Nak Muay (boxers) have crossed disciplines successfully in : Kickboxing, MMA and the variety of other 'Full contact' eclectic arts.

Other disciplines, such as MMA & Kickboxing use Muay Thai techniques to enhance their fighting skills however you do not see this the other way round.

SHAUN

You're all asking for it now. Neil is typing away now like a mad man, he's half way through his post now on paragraph 4. (joking) ;)

WOW honestly! right its clear to see why kick boxers would want to harbor k1 as kick boxing due to it being a more hardcore vperson of what 90% of them do. kick boxers although they have the tools for this most don't have the conditioning. kick boxers kick with there feet this would result in broken toes in a fight. its clear why muaythai guys don' want to be painted by the kick boxing brush. kick boxing is what you guys do down in brighton and sanfran with your spangley trousers and neopreane flip flops k1 is not that. knee kick makes as much sence as "elbow punch". Neil I assume you are a kick boxer. have you fought in shorts? have you fought without pads? have you fought with low kicks? if you have done any of these things you have crossed slightly into the grey area unknowingly because that shit isn't kickboxing

Not this shit again!!!!

Lol @ paul

I bet Neil and Ryan Rudkin secretly have sparring sessions!!!!!!!!

the media calls most stand up martial arts kick boxing from Chinese san shou (or what ever its called) to kyokoshin karate. its just a generalization same as Turkish wrestling. lesbo dildo oil wrestling, wwe and bjj will be all classed under the same banner as wrestling! same same but very different!

keepyerguardup
Posted: 2012-08-07 09:01:40
Not this shit again!!!!



nothing else needs said lol

He doe's sound ridiculous babbling on about this knee kick. Is it a x2 combo Ryu drops on Street fighter?

"A guy who has never done anything before walks into you gym wanting to start "martial arts"
you tell him you train muay thai.
he asks what is muay thai?........what do you say?

later same situation but the guy asks...what is k1? what do you say?"

For the first one I say "its a bit like kickboxing but far better and the full limit of their rules is about 30% of what im allowed to do"

as for the second one I say "its like a cross between the two but far more similar to muay thai".

Then I say "kickboxings shit, dont talk to me about it again."

funny lol

- very!

:)

when this thread is ashes.....you have my permission to die

do you recon rugby union and rugby league guys fucking hate each other? out of RU and RL which one do you recon the guys that play it wears their wives pants?

my lad does MMA and I've never heard him talk down kick, k1 or thai just because they use less weapons.
Neil, although I don't always agree with your posts I think it's pathetic that these slags round on you like a pack of hyenas. Only brave when they attack in a group.

I cant speak for everyone else, but Neil does bring some of it on himself imo. He is like a broken record about this stuff.

Whether or not k1 or Glory use "kickboxing" describing their events, it is being used in a general term.....as its not kickboxing which is actually happening at these events!

Surely this is all tongue in cheek? U slags leave the windy monkey man alone! Otherwise I'll get u with some grt mma stand up.

SURELY the term 'Kickboxing' is merely a general (or umbrella) term for a variety of kickboxing-type sports:-

- Full Contact is Kickboxing
- Low Kicks (or Freestyle) is Kickboxing
- K-1 Rules (or Oriental) is Kickboxing
- Sanda/San Shou is Kickboxing
- Savate is Kickboxing (Combat or Assault, i forget which)
- Muay Thai is ??? Well i would label it a Kickboxing sport
- And lots of other systems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muay_Thai )


I can understand some rivalry and banter between each style's followers but that's all it should be; banter. All the stupid comments slagging each other off is ridiculous and not shows how easy it is for certain martial artists to put the whole respect thing to one side and slag each other off.

Each sport is slightly unique and has its own loyal followers and practitioners, and really doesn't need fellow martial artists putting each other down.


At the end of the day the general opinion when asked to joe bloggs would probably be as i've said above - all the sports fall under the Kickboxing classification. I also think that Neil does have a point - if K-1 brands itself as Kickboxing then who are we to say they can't call it kickboxing?

First off my opinion will probably be disregard on here or get a hail of abuse seeing I'm from Neil Holden's School of wacky werewolf Kickboxing and not a student from a gym of pure 100% muay thai till I die, also holding a 3rd dan in said kickboxing system plus being regarded as no good as a kickboxer not having step up to pro thai boxing from amatuer A.K.A Kickboxing (personal choice £50 to fight if lucky no thanks i'll keep the pads and body armour on, never mind for the honour of the art nonsense) ok allegiances stated, critics of my amatuer career on here answered, here I go with my question and opionion.

does the uk muay thai community feel threaterned by the success of K-1 style Kickboxing in europe? does it fear it so much that uk muay thai wants to distence itself from Kickboxing proclaiming muay thai is not a style of Kickboxing it is just simply muay Thai. But on the other hand it seems to want to claim K-1 for its self calling it a form of modified Thai rules.

My feeling is yes UK muay Thai fears K-1 success in Europe and if Glory or K-1 Global were to start promoting K1 Kickboxing galas in the UK to the same level, they would basically soak up all the top UK talent as the top fighters would now be demanding top dollar to fight knowing that K-1 would pay and would obviously convert to the K-1 style to better their chances of success, leaving muay Thai struggling to find the money to attract fighters and now being used as a stepping stone to K-1 by the N and C class fighters which now those fights would look very much like K-1 as no elbows, ofcourse with exception to the clinch.
this could also lead to muay Thai being referred to by the generic term Kickboxing. So is there a bit of a fear of possible loss of identity?

in fairness.... a fair few good points
as one of the main problems is muay thai is full of feckin idiots that totally do the opposite as what muay thai and martial arts are supposed to represent
ie: `Respect` !!!!( wheres that gone? )
humbleness
restraint
self control
sportsmanlike

a couple of thai boxing friends Instructors and succesfull gym owners whom have done very well out of this sport and BOTH very intelligent and very business minded and forward thinking have been saying to me for years their words not mine....

" thai boxing has too many f*cking idiots who havent got a clue
and too small minded i f*ing hate them all" !

the other was quoted as saying

" was does muay thai have so so mamny weirdos in it" ?


its no wonder (my words now )
we are the "poor mans art & sport"



im now starting to beleive them both !!!

sorry didnt check my spelling read this one please sorry was rushing

in fairness.... a fair few good points above posted by Graham sayer

as one of the main problems is muay thai is full of feckin idiots that totally do the opposite as what muay thai and martial arts are supposed to represent
ie: `Respect` !!!!( wheres that gone? )
humbleness
restraint
self control
sportsmanlike ! you only need to read any topic on here to see what i mean and what the 2 thai boxing gym owners have said !
( take a look at my topic "can anyone do muay thai"? )the idiots are exposed there lol

a couple of thai boxing friends Instructors and succesfull gym owners whom have done very well out of this sport and BOTH very intelligent and very business minded and forward thinking have been saying to me for years their words not mine....

" thai boxing has too many f*cking idiots who havent got a clue
and too small minded i f*ing hate them all" !

the other was quoted as saying

" Why does muay thai have so so many weirdos in it" ?


its no wonder (my words now )
we are the "poor mans art & sport"



im now starting to beleive them both !!!

Hello mr pot. Why how do you do mr kettle ? ;)

everyone on the planet calls football soccer bar us.... so the idea that if Muay Thai shrinks it will no longer be called Muay Thai is pretty foolish

Billards is not as popular as pool or snooker but do people call those games 'snooker' as its the most popular of these similar games?

does shiny pants kickboxing feel threatened as it too will and does lose its best to K1 rules and Queensbury?

fighters will follow the money and why shouldnt they - they can still prefer to fight under different rules? Nigel Benn said he used to love kickboxing and wished it paid .... if MMA was around he said he probably would have done that instead of boxing... I have a figher who fights Boxing right now because it pays way more than Thai even though he loves Muay Thai and if that paid the same would drop the boxing tommorrow...

I think K1 and indead MMA bar one or two examples kick in a thai style, use the 'thai clinch' and (in MMA) throw elbows (a thai weapon) - so its closest to Thai...

people can call it what they want...everyone knows it as K1 rules.... most people think Kickboxing means moon-boots and shiny pants - no disrespect but in the UK that is the perception... back when Buakow schooled everyone.... the rules allowed clinching - again a Thai specific form.....

so if we had a check list and the ring sports you can use them in

Clinching (thai)
Elbows (thai)
Thai Style kicking (thai)
Boxing (boxing, thai and kickboxing)
Knees (thai)
Sweeps (kickboxing) NOT ALLOWED
Sanda Throws/s-1 throws etc (NOT ALLOWED)
takedowns (NOT ALLOWED)
submissions (NOT ALLOWED)
padding i.e boots (NOT ALLOWED)

just a thought....

anyway who really cares

if K-1 pays then cool...if shiny pants was paying big money or holding 300k-500k tournaments I bet most would try that........

I dont agree muay thai is the poor mans sport outside of thailand

imho you will find more people interested in muay thai that have travelled to thailand to train than in other martial arts, most gyms have at least 1 person travelling to thailand (even if just instructor and no students)

imho you dont see as many students of karate or judo travelling to japan, bjj travelling to brazil or tae kwondo students travelling to korea

I do agree that it attracts some weirdos but most martial arts do...proabably less weirdos in a traditional boxing gym

bad co are normal blokes having a laugh..not sure about the werewolf bit..i must be getting old but neil holden is definetely trying to antagonize them with his daft drivel

if neil holden solely competed in k1 events and considered himself a kickboxer then that's fair enough

...however if neil holden mostly dressed like a power ranger in his fighting career and was usually padded up like a sofa then it seems he's trying to attach himself to a harder form of combat in k1 than traditional full contact kickboxing with moon boots is known as

most people interested in k1 consider it hybrid stand-up art, whether the owners claim k1 as kixkboxing is modern marketing claim, it used to be known as a middle ground for muay/kickboxers/karate and other stand-up fighters

personally I feel it's being called k1 to simplify it to the public, a karate fighter can compete in k1 using karate techniques and that could be called kickboxing to dumb it down as the karate fighter will be kicking and throwing punches(boxing)

This is boring now.

How can UK Muay Thai fear K-1 events? That is a ridiculous comment.

This thread is like a dog chasing its own tail!,slightly amusing but totally pointless.

Agreed

So is K-1 'Kickboxing' then or modified muay thai?

If people want to call it modified muay thai then surely there's an argument for it to be called modified kickboxing, or seeing as it was founded by a karate bloke and is pretty much Kyukoshinkai with a few extras chucked in (head shots, gloves, shorts) it would be more practical to call it modified kyukoshinkai?

Anyone remember the very early K-1 events where at the start it used to say that K-1 stood for 'Karate' Kung-Fu' 'Kickboxing' ?

So if people are adament in calling it modified muay thai then they choose to ignore the K-1's own wording of itself.


I agree that the K-1 format is well suited for thai fighters due to certain similarities, but K-1 by it's own definition, is simply not modified Muay Thai, it is a type of kickboxing.... Silky pants, Moon-boot wearing kickboxers are 'Full Contact' fighters, but still kickboxers.

How can anyone disagree?

iv said its more like modified muaythai i dont want to call it that?

To be fair, people are right when they have mentioned that I have gone on about what is regarded as 'Kickboxing' in this modern day, as used by the main Kickboxing promotions across Europe ( K-1, ItsShowtime, GLORY, SuperKombat, KRUSH, etc.. ).

Point taken guys - happy to wind it down now - this may well be my last essay on the subject, as at the end of the day some people simply do not like change of any sort, and changing opinions can be one of the hardest things in the world once someone has decided not to even give something due consideration.

There are however some people that have also emailed me saying that there were NOT AWARE of that there were even events of such scale in $ purses / venue size / audience sizes due to television coverage to millions, going on anywhere in the world - and thanked me for posting!

Some people in the U.K. have only been exposed to small hall events, and know or knew little more.

It is unfortunate how some people have reacted, ( personal comments or just plain stupid ones to try and inflame ), as I have no ill feeling towards anyone, and on many posts have wished UK fighters the best of luck for their Kickboxing bouts - because hopefully if they win, will help to take the sport forward in the U.K. and more inline with the rest of the world.

However, and this is seen on other threads, when someone posts something that is incorrect about a subject, it is not uncommon for another person that is involved to offer the correct information.

If someone was posting threads on Muaythai scoring that were not correct, or allowed techniques of Muaythai that were not correct ( Plough - yes / no ) etc.... there would be plenty of people that may feel the need to offer the correct information should they be involved in that sport either as a competitior, trainer, promoter, or simply an avid fan.

K-1 now markets itself as Kickboxing, as do the other big promotions I have mentioned ( and there events are watched by millions of fans ). So, just as people should respect Muaythai rules, scoring criteria and traditions etc... people should respect how the sport of Kickboxing is growing - because believe me, it is - these are exciting times for fans of the format.

Boxing / M.M.A. / Kickboxing is where the $Dollar is for main athletes of combat-sports.

If someone calls a K-1 rules contest, a Kickboxing bout, they should not get attacked for it - because they are in fact correct to do so. As posted at the beginning of this thread, the K-1 Global official website this week stated..."K-1 is the Largest kickboxing Promotion in history."

Again, best wishes to Tim Thomas, Howsen and Watson. Hopefully they will do very well from their bouts and additionally I hope that more U.K. fighters get similar opportunities as we have some great Muaythai and also Full-Contact Kickboxing talent that could easily cross over into the sport.

To help support U.K. fighters my next show on the 28th October at the Parr Hall - Warrington, could help to give potential fighters K-1 style tournament experience, as it is the same Kickboxing rule format plus... £6'000.00 prize money, £1'000.00 of which is for best K.O. of the night ).

Hopefully it will be an exciting event, with fighters chasing the £1'000.00 K.O. bonus and we wil get some explosive K-1 style Kickboxing knockouts!

I can see arguements from both sides. It's not a Kickboxing bout and it's not a Muay Thai bout because the rules are different to both, it's a K-1 bout with the rules being set so different disciplines can enter. Why can't it be left there?

Surely the whole genius of K-1 is that it is a stand alone sport...one which has been developed to allow practitioners of all 'stand-up' styles to take part. A good boxer could do well in K-1, as could a good Kickboxer or karate practitioner or Muay Thai practitioner etc etc.

I think that the term Kickboxing is loosely used to describe K-1 because it is a term that people understand. As Paul correctly stated, there is no official Kickboxing rule set which is the same as K-1...

I'm not having a go at Kickboxing, I've worked on loads of Kickboxing events and have enjoyed them all, I even used to train in Kickboxing before finding Muay Thai.

If we're to be pedantic about it...you wouldn't say that It's Showtime was Kickboxing or K-1...they have their own rule set again...named 'It's Showtime Rules'.

Neil, I don't know why you rise to the bait on here...keep in mind that the majority of Ax contributors are fairly closely associated with the sport generally (we don't get much in the way of passing trade on here)...in other words we all have a decent handle on the differences between MT, K-1, Kickboxing and so on!

Everyone...stop winding up Neil.
Neil...count to ten before you re-post, lol

Dougie

Until next time, take care of yourself...and each other!

so you done full contact before discovering the better option of muay thai doogie?

i do not agree with football being called soccer, americans call their shite game football when they spend most of their time holding the ball (when they're not on the sideline tromboning and giving hand shandy reach-arounds and high 5's and banging their helmets together)

paulinthailand, where is this lesbian-dildo wrestling thou speakest of? Bring it to me. I have need of it.

Shaun , i believe you are referring to Wang Chung , the famous 80s pop group?
and Zuma, Mr Zuma as he is called, a South African politician, i believe he was under the impression that AIDS could be cured by a bar of soap. when in truth,a dropped bar of soap, especially in places where incarceration of desperate hairy males is common, is often the CAUSE of Aids. ZUMBA i believe is a group dance activity for tubby middle aged housewives who do not understand that 2 x 1 hour per week does not make up for 7 Sara Lee pizzas, 14 cans of diet coke and various other junk they force down their gizzards.

back on topic, what is happening with k-1 now anyway?

I'm not saying that MT is better. That's nonsense. I do prefer it though.
Actually, I used to do 'Korean Kickboxing' which is really just a modern adaptation of traditional Tae Kwon Do. No patterns (kata), no fixed positions, no daft walking forward making low blocks etc. Just a good fun class with lots of sparring.

Booked a 4 week holiday at Rawai MT on Phuket and caught the bug. I quite liked Muay Thai too, lol. Besides, taking up Muay Thai gave me a smokescreen with which to disguise my annual vacation of booze and sex tourism.

MUAY 1: "I can see arguements from both sides. It's not a Kickboxing bout and it's not a Muay Thai bout because the rules are different to both, it's a K-1 bout with the rules being set so different disciplines can enter. Why can't it be left there?"

Muay1 - What are you classing as Kickboxing then?

Are you referring to what are commonly referred to as 'Full Contact' or 'Low Kicks'? Both are separate from each other as they have their own rules.

I don't understand why people are adamant that K-1 is not a form of Kickboxing when it describes itself as a type of Kickboxing.

K-1 is clearly not Muay Thai as Muay Thai is a stand alone sport, even though certain groups have diluted it a little with ABCN classes, etc.

K-1 is clearly not Full Contact Rules, nor Low Kicks, Nor Sanda. However all of the above are classified either in general terms as Kickboxing sports... even bloody Light Continuous and that mat-sports point stuff is Kickboxing (unfortunately).

I have stated my thoughts above. It does not matter what I class as Kickboxing because no matter what kickboxing format you choose it's still not K-1. K-1 rules are adjusted to bring different disciplines together.

Everything Dougie has posted I agree with, especially - "I think that the term Kickboxing is loosely used to describe K-1 because it is a term that people understand".

All this is happening because people are winding Neil up and he's reacting. If I am honest and could probably answer for 95% of people on here - I don't really care.

Im stepping up here to defend Liams argument but at the same time acknowledge the place of K1 as a spectator sport.

At the 02 arena i attended 6 fighters post fight and suchered all 6. Over 67 stitches in total.....Muay Thai comes at a price. Serious damage and possible disfigurement. Those that choose to compete under those rules show particular courage and determination worthy of distinction. And maybe those individuals feel (rightly) that they are a cut above. Liam is such a man.

However; K1 embraces the dynamics of the Thai bout but limits the potential for career shortening wounds. Its possibly easier for an uninitiated audience to understand. So speed, power, excitment,limited potential for damage and an easy to grasp format makes for popular and accessable sport.

Regardless of its origins. K1 really does combine most of the elements of Thai but without the nasty stuff. Possibly its a way for experienced Thai fighters to further their careers?

So rather than debate origins and create division. Lets celebrate that we can two related ring sports we can appreciate.

And good luck to Liam and Andy this weekend.....

When i wrote further i meant extend. As in continue longer than originally planned.

i would say nobody does really care most people can see the differences and also the similarities but in the quest to differentiate themselves as more educated or satisfy their ego that their sport is better, they will continue to argue the toss. in reality outside of the community to joe public if he saw a muay thai fight judging by what they see and forgive me this........................... they may call it.......... kickboxing......do they all deserve to be lynched educated and insulted or perhaps over time be left to realise the differnces and follow which version of rules they prefer.

If you wanted to call it "modified Kyokushinkai rules" then you would essentially BE calling it modified thai rules. Learn your Kyokushin history and exactly why the Kyokushin guys incorporated kicking with the shin, kicking low and knees in the first place....

K-1 is a brand name.

You can only call a K-1 bout, a K-1 bout if it is officially sanctioned by K-1.

UFC is a brand name.

You can only call a UFC bout, a UFC bout if it is officially sanctioned by UFC.

K-1 is involved in the sport of Kickboxing.

UFC is involved in the sport of Mixed-Martial-Arts.

You could have a UFC style M.M.A. bout, ie similar rule format and use a cage ( not all MMA bouts are in a cage - some are in a ring ).

You could have a K-1 style Kickboxing bout. ie rule format.

Oh, and K-1 official state that they are a Kickboxing promotion.

If K-1 own the brand name, and state that they are involved in the sport of Kickboxing ( generic or not ), then it pretty much plays out that it is a format of Kickboxing.

Neil you're like a broken record.

Personally I think kickboxers want to claim K1 and even thai as "just another form of kickbxoxing" because, yeah as someone said above, its about associating itself with what is obviously, and is perceived by even joe public as, a tougher sport.

And just to make it clear, I'm not making allusions to how hard people have to try in the sport or how much effort/skill is required. It's that the fighters themselves are taking, and are capable of dealing, far more damage in K1, and more still, in muay thai.

It makes kickboxers look "crazy" by association. "what me? yeah i do kickboxing - its like what they do in UFC but without the crap ground fighting" lol the amount of times I've heard shite like that is unreal. It's like all the old guys from the 60s who could genuinely fight who to this day, if asked about bruce lee, will tell you he was "an awesome fighta!" - because it makes them look cool to have been associated with him.

For once i agree with Sandy,Don't see any of this shiz in other stand up contact arts/sports. Watching olympics taekwondo and respect going on there.
Constant arguments about the same things! Come on lets get a grip.

As a rule it's hard to explain that you train in muay thai,general public see it as "oh,you do kickboxing?" or maybe Thaiboxing if your lucky ;)

I just don't like gradings in mt

I don't really need to learn the history of Kyukoshinkai as the fact is that Kyukoshinkai is now it's own discipline and has its own sporting element.

K-1 rules is unique in its ruleset and a great way to bridge the gap between certain fight sports, but i thought the topic was about whether K-1 is a Kickboxing sport or not??


"However; K1 embraces the dynamics of the Thai bout..."

No disrespect intended but that is quite a general statement. 'Dynamics' being what? Are these references to kicking style and the knee?


As mentioned a few times - this topic is not really important but it's simply a debate. Some people are getting irate over words when we should just be talking and helping each other.

It seems to me from certain comments on this thread and others, that certain elements of the the muay community don't want to be associated with the word 'Kickboxing' for whatever reason, but unfortunately Muay Thai itself is seen by a lot of people as a 'form' of kickboxing... Just going back to my reply to Muay1 - you are right it is not important what your definition of kickboxing is, however for debate and clarity purposes it would help others (myself) understand where you're coming from.

........... somehow missed out a whole paragraph...


"However; K1 embraces the dynamics of the Thai bout..."

No disrespect intended but that is quite a general statement. 'Dynamics' being what? Are these references to kicking style and the knee? If this is the case then surely K-1 also features dynamics of Boxing, Low Kicks Kickboxing and San Shou.. San Shou dynamics being with the exception of the throws.

This is another ridiculous thread. Neil what exactly did you set out to achieve my starting yet another pathetic thread? K-1 is neither Muay Thai or Kickboxing its its own dicipline! So stop trying to make it out to be something its not because writing 3000 word essays on every thread proves nothing and just annoys people. As for 'Knee-Kick' are you serious? No matter how many times you say it its either a knee or a kick. Knee someone with your knee or kick somebody with your shin. Please teach me how you have managed to master both these techniques at the same time to stike with both.

Nephilim "Personally I think kickboxers want to claim K1 and even thai as "just another form of kickbxoxing" because, yeah as someone said above, its about associating itself with what is obviously, and is perceived by even joe public as, a tougher sport"

I certainly don't mean it in that way and really can't understand people that think that way. But at the same time and to some extent, is Muay Thai not doing that with K-1 due to it's popularity? I am sure you may disagree but i'm sure some are - ie calling k-1 rules modified muay thai, etc. If we look at Muay Thai as fought in Thailand, then surely isn't N/C/B class all modified Muay. As i say, not arguing just debating.



If someone could come up with an actual definition of 'Kickboxing' then we'd all know where we're coming from. I get the feeling that when some people mention Kickboxing they really mean Full Contact.


Chalky: "Constant arguments about the same things! Come on lets get a grip"

Well said. Some people are getting their knickers in a twist when it's only a forum and people expressing opinions/debating.

Ricky S: If K-1 is not Kickboxing then should this be pointed out to K-1 Global as they seem to have misprinted it all over their website and rules.

Dave I am not interested in debating over such a ridiculous topic. We're going round in circles and Neil just repeats himself.

Aslong as people know what they get when going to watch a kickboxing bout, k-1 bout and a muay thai bout thats all that matters. If we was turn up to a k-1 bout and the fighters are wearing slippers and trousers then I think then we will have a debate.

I think they have promoted it as K-1 kickboxing to gain interest so that the general public can understand the basics of the event as many people have heard of kickboxing. This doesn't make it kickboxing because the rules are completely different and they don't wear half the amount of protection that kickboxers wear.

thats what my arguement was k1 was brought about cos it was a mix of everything :/

No problem Muay1. I too would feel a little let-down if I turn up at an advertised muay thai event expecting to see some authentic thaiboxing and find out that no elbows are allowed or knees to the head, I too would feel conned.

promoters and everyone else calls it 'kickboxing' because its widely understood (by non-pedantic) people to refer to what it refers to

Phrases like "modified Muay Thai" dont mean shit to the average man on the street and sound crap from a PR perspective. The average casual fight fan isnt going to be thrilled to bits by "An evening of modified muay thai action" - personally if i saw that advertised, i would want it to be semi-robot people with titanium shins. Anything less would be a disappointment

people really are attaching too much importance to labels here; semantics and pedantry. 'Modified Muay Thai' is a shit phrase, 'kickboxing' isnt

Lol no offence intended, just a bit tongue in cheek, but the average casual fight fan isnt going to be thrilled by "an evening of kickboxing action" either lol. Its why the sports dyin a death.

I hear you on that Dave and agree ;)

Low Kicks rules Kickboxers where pretty much the same as k-1 and thai though yet it's still kickboxing, If you see what I'm getting at.

Oh well it's been food for thought I guess but I still view any fight sport in a ring that kicks and punches as a 'form' of kickboxing. And it's nothing to do with being associated to a 'tougher' sport, etc, as I don't want to be associated with certain divisions of kickboxing like the points stuff, light continuous, or savate, yet still have a degree of respect for the participants as it's their choice what sport they do.

Na I disagree. The scoring system is still closer to thai than low-kick, there's still clinch involved, still knees involved and you can still catch kicks. In my opinion, low-kick kickboxing and K1 are still very much different sports.

rules vary so much some k1 can catch some u cant some u can knee for 5 seconds some u can knee if u hold with only 1 arm, some u can clinch if u dont grab the neck or round the body, some u can knee once and release some only long knee-kick.
proper kickboxing lowkick version is close ish, full contact kickboxing nothing like.

not sure about shotokan shinjitsu tho someone can prob correct me on those rules

Y didn't u just call this thread I TOLD U SO HARRISON and CO? That is all that was attempted by this silly thread,

Yeah, i aint even going into the scoring!

K-1 rules are pretty much now set in stone. As for the variations then this is what makes it 'not-k-1'. In fact anything outside of the K-1 organisation is not k-1 it is an imitation with their own rules 'similar' but not k-1; Fight Code, Showtime, etc.

Sorry I forgot about low kick rules in regard to protection worn. Anyway my whole point was just I didn't understand what this thread was set out to achieve. Why can't everyone just agree its K-1 rules which is neither kickboxing or muay thai but more a mixture of both diciplines:)

Ricky S - "Why can't everyone just agree its K-1 rules which is neither kickboxing or muay thai but more a mixture of both diciplines"


Exactly Ricky. :)

K-1 is a world-wide kickboxing promotion founded in Tokyo, Japan by Kazuyoshi Ishii, a former Kyokushin karate practitioner. Its rules are similar to those of kickboxing but they have been simplified to promote exciting matches that may end in a knockout win.[3] The main difference between K-1 rules and kickboxing is the use of knees, allowed in K-1 but not in International kickboxing

I think we should agree that kickboxing has many meanings. It is a loose term to describe a fighting art, but also a style itself
A Thai boxer fighting k1 is not a kickboxer, he is a Thai boxer fighting k1 rules,

It was stated across some threads on AX that…

K-1 is not a style of Kickboxing, and cannot possibly be a style of Kickboxing - as you cannot knee in Kickboxing.

---

All that I have pointed out is that K-1 does in fact officially state that THEY ARE A Kickboxing promotion.

Quote from official K-1 Website...

"About:
K-1 is the Largest kickboxing Promotion in history. Since 1993, K-1 has presented professional live martial arts events in 38 countries featuring the best and most accomplished athletes in the sport."

Source for this at the following on the Official K-1 WEBSITE:

http://www.k-1.tv/en/news-list.php

------

And, that under official K-1 Kickboxing rules you can indeed knee, as they class striking with this weapon as a knee-kick.

Article 5: Authorized Fighting Techniques.

The following techniques are authorized.
Punches : Straight Punches, Hooks, Uppers and back spin blows.

Kicks : Front Kicks, Middle Kicks, High Kicks, Side Kicks, Back Kicks, Inner Thigh Kicks, Jumping Kicks and Knee Kicks,

http://www.k-1.tv/en/rules.php


------

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT 'I MYSELF' HAVE MADE UP ??

K-1 states it is a kickboxing promotion, and the official rules of K-1 allow the knee.

Why would we all just accept that it is NOT a Kickboxing format but something diffent, when K-1 claims that it actually is?

Why dont we all just accept that it is a Kickboxing format (that allows knees, under the term knee-kick).

Especially as K-1 are promoting themselves as such and to be honest, to its global audience it is seen exactly as that, a style of Kickboxing.

If K-1 state that they are a Kickboxing promotion - who are we to say it is not?

No more please.

Robin shepherd jai, with all due respect, you text is out dated.

I always list the source.

Please just take a few moments to actually visit the official K-1 website, you will find that your text is outdated, ( possibly from wikipedia? - if so, lots of out dated info on there ).

Give this a whirl.

http://www.k-1.tv/en/news-list.php

A wide array of the world’s best stand up fighters, square off face to face, bringing together their own techniques born from Karate, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Taekwondo, Savate, San Shou, and other martial arts. Few other sports share the global interest, elaborate the showmanship and the popularity of K-1, along with the deep spirituality and ritualism practiced over centuries by millions of martial artists.

From that link you've posted. I think we can all agree K-1 is a promotion to show case the best of each discipline. No where on that link you've posted does it say K-1 Kickboxing.

Neil, are you on commission for constantly posting these essays on here, if so are you paid by the word?

sorry my post wasn't clear... this paragraph is from that site you posted.

A wide array of the world’s best stand up fighters, square off face to face, bringing together their own techniques born from Karate, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Taekwondo, Savate, San Shou, and other martial arts. Few other sports share the global interest, elaborate the showmanship and the popularity of K-1, along with the deep spirituality and ritualism practiced over centuries by millions of martial artists.

Havnt looked through the whole thread so might have missed this but I thought K-1, like UFC, is just a brand?

Sorry my mistake it does say kickboxing on the links. However, the paragraph explaining k-1 is about all disciplines coming together which is my argument.

Yea Adrian it is a brand, but Neil's argument is its a kickboxing brand.

I find this thread interesting and amusing!

Neil Holden you need to understand that even when you give links to written evidence on this Forum it makes no difference when the small minority think they are correct!

K-1 is not ' modified Muay Thai ' .

Your not any more superior because you fight Muay Thai than K-1 different people like different things.

Dave Croft

At the 02 arena i attended 6 fighters post fight and suchered all 6. Over 67 stitches in total.....Muay Thai comes at a price. Serious damage and possible disfigurement. Those that choose to compete under those rules show particular courage and determination worthy of distinction. And maybe those individuals feel (rightly) that they are a cut above. Liam is such a man.

Why would they feel a cut above? All fighting sports come with a risk. Does that mean a MMA fighter would feel more of a fighter than a Muay Thai fighter? The ones I speak with don't! Many of them just think Muay Thai fighters are crazy to fight for the little purses they get!

Nephilim

It makes kickboxers look "crazy" by association. "what me? yeah i do kickboxing - its like what they do in UFC but without the crap ground fighting" lol the amount of times I've heard shite like that is unreal.

My Dad says the same about clinchwork when watching a muay Thai fight! I've always told him its good to watch but he says he's not in to watching 2 men cuddle!

Kickboxing, like Athletics, covers a variety of disciplines.
People are clearly mistaken full contact for kickboxing when in fact, full contact is only a type of kickboxing, as is low kicks, k1, fight code, and dare i say it, thai!!

K-1's rules and shows just happens to be the dogs bxxxxcks of kickboxing events.

James in response. I personally think that men and women that serve our country in the armed forces are a cut above.

My point therefore: was. That Thai boxing is poorly rewarded and typically far move dangerous (under A class FTR) than pretty much any current fighting discipline. Those that compete at this level are risking far more than their comtemporaries in alternate disciplines. Once you factor in the poor financial returns typically found in Thai boxing then they must indeed be mad. Or passionate, focussed and determined individuals that deserve respect. If they were privately to feel that they were at the pinicle of their game. Who could blame them.

My fighter Jon Greenwood just submitted to a study at Liverpool university along with representatives from other disciplines. The findings show that an A Class Thai Boxer is substantially fitter than his contemporaries. I wont go into where different disciplines came in the list but suffice to say Thai boxing is hard. The training is hard, The risks high and the rewards low.

Im thinking this is why its not that popular in comparison to other disciplines.

Ricky S
Posted: 2012-08-08 09:06:30

Neil, are you on commission for constantly posting these essays on here, if so are you paid by the word?

---

Yes, Liam and I are getting $1 each per click!

;)

My point about the armed forces was meant to conclude by saying not every things for reward. Most soldiers would be financially better off delivering milk. and certainly safer. But theres more to it than money and then theres the excitment factor.

@ Muay1.

Yes - a fighter from any style can compete in a Kickboxing bout if they wish. This is also true of a mixed-martial-arts bout.

That is, as long as it is within the parameters of either the Kickboxing or M.M.A. ruleset that is being used.

That does not take away from the quote from official K-1 Website...

"About:
K-1 is the Largest kickboxing Promotion in history. Since 1993, K-1 has presented professional live martial arts events in 38 countries featuring the best and most accomplished athletes in the sport."

Source for this at the following on the Official K-1 WEBSITE:

http://www.k-1.tv/en/news-list.php

K-1 is stating it is a Kickboxing promotion!

Dave Croft -

Good post.

You've got to say that Muay Thai is poorly rewarded but for being the most dangerous fighting discipline I would have to disagree with MMA being number one for me.

Interesting that study but I'm sure depending on the representive of each discipline you could have a different outcome.

bruce lee was a legend and a genuine legend at that ..he paved the way for modern martial arts and broke down the boundaries that stopped asian arts being taught to westerners

he was also a pioneer of mma, jkd being a hybrid of numerous martial arts

Then we shall agree to disagree. I hold fast on my notion that Thai is the hardest/brutal fighting discipline. But respect the fact others may wish to see it differently.

As for the study? The study control group was assembled involving only fighters competing in the top of their chosen discipline. As a lower datum. Sports people from other areas were involved. Each naturally enough peaking higher than the others in their given field of expertise. But still Thai Boxers came out on top in all measurable areas except from outright strenght/power (typically bench press) where the weight category was opened up.

"About:
K-1 is the Largest kickboxing Promotion in history. Since 1993, K-1 has presented professional live martial arts events in 38 countries featuring the best and most accomplished athletes in the sport."


does that include Bob Sapp?

Forgive my ignorance, I have not read though all 100 post........... I may be mistaken (although i"m sure i"m not), but elbows were allowed in K1 at one time, in or very close to its inception I believe.
Have elbows then also been allowed in Kickboxing at some point?

Agree to disagree Dave.

I would not doubt that Jon Greenwood is in great shape but couldn't see him being fitter than Clay ' The Carpenter ' Guida!

That Monkey Style fighting of his is CRAZY!!!!

Hawkman - lol @ Bob Sapp!

It was a terrible time for K-1, was when FEG was just chasing domestic television ratings, and plugging celebrities like Sapp and Akebono the former Sumo fighter, just because he was so popular ( to Sumo fans that is ). K-1 had no rival, and could almost ignore the wider market.

Competition always makes players up the level. In this case, due to the K-1 promotion not being active for approx two years, the Kickboxing promotions that were showing K-1 bouts, simply continued. They continued with the rule format, but could not say K-1, so they simply called their bouts 'KICKBOXING'. This in part is why we are discussing K-1 style Kickboxing.

Television ratings for these promotions have recently really taken off across Europe for ItsShowtime, GLORY etc... Millions of people are following the sport in many many countries across the globe. Most probrably due to the UFC exposing a wide audience to martial art - combat sports, and their being people that like to see Kicking and Boxing, but are not fans of wrestling and groundwork.

Now, after nearly two years, K-1 is back, via K-1 Global with its K-1 Rising events - but now it is having to compete for this new global Kickboxing audience.

There is basically a power struggle between GLORY and K-1 to dominate the Kickboxing market. It is like UFC -vs- PRIDE FC.

If this then benefits top level UK fighters with decent $ for their efforts ( as Dave Croft pointed out earlier ) - I am all for it!

Exciting times for fans of the format!

Lol dont get me started on bruce lee. the man did a lot of martial arts sure, but he clearly couldnt fight, clearly DIDNT fight and he certainly did NOT pioneer MMA. Pankration being around since the romans and Vale Tudo - the REAL lineage of modern day UFC since the turn of the 20th century when BJJ first started being developed.

Liam! Watch your Tea Pot around Neil.

What proof is there that Bruce Lee could or could not fight?
He was certainly a pioneer in promoting cross training and changing mainstream martial artists' perception of training.

He probably couldn't do K-1 Kickboxing though :)

Yawn Yawn Yawn boring

Pat , Bob Sapp was an athlete not a fighter as it actually says lol.

The Crippler
Posted: 2012-08-08 11:02:07
Forgive my ignorance, I have not read though all 100 post........... I may be mistaken (although i"m sure i"m not), but elbows were allowed in K1 at one time, in or very close to its inception I believe.
Have elbows then also been allowed in Kickboxing at some point?

I didn't realise they allowed elbows at anytime. Maybe it was before it was k1, wasn't it called something previous, Seidokaikan or similar? Not sure if they permitted elbows.

And my interpretation/definition of what the term 'kickboxing' is is obviously different to others on here who seem to keep making the full contact comparison.

Dave you mean besides various shockingly bad videos like this?



or how about the fact that the very technique he chose to train for the majority of time were, basically put, poor choices. Low percentage moves and his reasoning is all highly theoretical and showing very little actual experience in the thought process. No different from the theoretical crap that your average TMA'er comes out with when talking about how well XYZ movie star would do in the UFC.

How about the fact that he totally looooooooved trapping. If there was ever a more banal non-existant range i dont know it. and dont claim clinch as trapping - its similar in many ways, but soooo not the way wing chun and jkd uses it.

well bruce lee worked with many respected martial artists at the time all of whom were considered good fighters in their day, he broke down the walls and stirred up interest in martial arts

he would exchange technique with various other martial artists

i get the impression and it may be wrong that because nephilim does a bit of thai boxing that he thinks he's got the reputation or fighting toughness of a thai nak muay

if we're gonna judge someone on a little bit of footage then what about his 1 inch punch and the speed of his techniques..all well before his time

...a thai fighter from thailand back in the day may have beat him but that doesn't mean bruce lee couldnt fight and who's to say bruce lee wouldnt have used ground game which can make top thai's come unstuck in mma im todays fighting

the photo on nephilims profile hardly looks like picture perfect technique, it may have been the last kick of a sequence and that might explain it plus its a c class amateur fighter but point being talking about technique from a small bit of footage is silly

bruce lee promoted thought rather than technique or a single style that was the belief or jkd, a martial art unrestricted by style taking the nearest point in muay thai is the equivalent of taking the lead leg and an effective technique still used today. not saying that bruce lee is the reason nak muay will take the lead leg low kick but saying that his teachings are applicable in modern fighting arts..similar to a boxer making use of the jab it was about evasiveness and being out of range of your opponent and could be adapted to various styles...nobody said jkd was the best style or anything of the sort, the very reason is was formed was to highlight weak points in many styles...ground game being a weakness of muay thai, legs being a weakness of a boxer etc

he was ahead of his time and paved the way for modern martial arts

Lol have i touched a nerve billybigconkers?

Mate, you asked for proof. Videos of him hitting the bag, hitting the pads, sparring etc all exist and that coupled with everything else give a pretty good indicator that, as much as the man did for "martial arts", he probably couldnt fight much better than your average schoolgirl. Fact is, theres little to no proof that he COULD fight. Nor did he have "ground game". You talking about him trying to land an armbar? Yeaaaaahhhhh its not a real armbar.

not at all...i just think you're talking pish

you put up a picture of yourself that looks like some bird throwing a kick in a fitness first gym with crap technique yet critise a legend that inspired thousands of people worldwide

he worked with genuine martial artists and fighters, people that were considered top guys back in their day

proper modern day fighters like bernard hopkins, manny pacquiao etc regard bruce lee as a true legend so some wee c class fighter from up the road talking pish means ?? haha

Oh right lol. Yeah you're not even slightly defensive mate!

Ive got one picture up from when i first made my ax account - when i first started the sport 6 years ago. Lol make all the judgements you want from that - especially when you've got fuck all up.

I just think you have a bit of a hero worship goin on mate. Look at the video of him hitting the bag. So called "top boxers of the day" were saying he was a legend but naaaaaa sorry, I can judge for myself and so can everyone else - thats shite boxing technique right there. same applies to virtually every video of him.

If he could fight, why is there no videos of him proving it, either outright or with technique?

Billybigconkers summed up perfectly with the fact that Bruce Lee made people think, made them take off the blinkers and to encouraged them to cross train and throw away the garbage. That's what he's known for. Also remembering that he wasn't sport based, it was supposed to be for reality purposes. I don't know whether he could fight for real or not, who cares, but he encouraged people to mix their training with different styles and to take what techniques they could to use... Sounds about right to me.

exactly actionpromo's thats what I've been saying...not once did I say bruce lee was the best fighter...all I've said was he worked with well known established fighters that back in the day were considered top of their tree...what did they have to gain by playing submissive to bruce lee? I also said he promoted cross training/mma way before it was accepted..back then it was considered an insult or was thought to show lack of respect to the initial martial art that someone had trained in to cross tran another martial art

nephilim i'm not getting defensive pal, i'm putting things into perspective, top fighters...real fighters not you or i regard him as legit and and a legend, you are entitled to your opinion as am I but putting into perspective if the top fighters which you clearly are not(neither am I )felt that bruce lee had something to teach and was worth listening to and was a stand out for his day and age then who are you or I to argue? I'd put more weight into anything bernard hopkins or manny pacquaio said about real fighters than you or I..and I only mention 2 current hall of fame lagends in boxing as with your superior complex about muay thai you'd no doubt try to dismiss other masters of martial arts opinion or worth i.e karate, kickboxing etc

as for footage released after his death, bruce lee was a perfectionist, he probably wouldnt have released footage that wasn't perfect..for all you know he was letting off steam throwing wing chun punches with central line technique, the man was highly skilled and a great thinker

slightly off tangent but i think tupac's legacy was diluted by some of the weak tracks that he personally threw in the bin yet were picked out and sold to make money as new material after his death

You either like Bruce Lee or dis-like him, it doesn't really matter,it doesn't change who he was or what he did.

His influence in the West was phenomenal, Like him or not the fact is he single handedly changed our view on traditional Martial arts, training and reality based fighting. In addition he set the standards for action based movies.

Many great athletes have given him accolades; Sugar Ray Leonard, Joe Lewis, Chuck Norris, Kareem Abdul Jabbar et al.

Some people don't like Muhammad Ali but it doesn't dent his great achievements.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and as long as it is intellectual and respectful, I will always respect that even if I disagree.

By the way the video of Bruce Lee on the kick bag at home was him doing action shots to see how they would look on film (movies) not of him training for fighting, he had a very different, eclectic and 'ahead of his time' approach to that.

Could he compete? no idea, he did win some high school boxing and was a novice champion and had roof top fights in Hong Kong but did not have a record of any 'tournament' fighting.

Could he fight? I would imagine with his speed and also his power for such a small guy he would be a handful for most people in the street.

Fighting in the street and competing to rules with a referee are Worlds apart, so what really makes a good fighter?

It's all conjecture, a theoretical and academic hypothesis based upon an individuals opinion and personal perception

SHAUN

nice post SHAUN :)

I give the man full credit for what he did for martial arts, the point I made that was contended was whether he could fight. The only evidence that he could are second hand accounts from people who all have a vested interest in associating themselves with a legend.

There's plenty of evidence to the contrary if you actually wanna be completely honest and unbiased and very little to say he could.

I dont have to be a champion fighter to be able to judge for myself and neither does anyone else.

But Iain, what is a champion fighter? a sportsman who fights to rules? a bare knuckle gypsy boxer? a street fighter? A soldier?

The variables are many, the minute you put rules into any fight you dilute and restrict the capabilities of the fighter.

You are right, you do not have to be a champion fighter to have judgement or opinion regarding fighting. So by that comment I guess Bruce Lee didn't have to be a champion fighter to be good at fighting, but we will never really know will we/ He has been gone 40 years next year and his contribution to Martial arts and fighting remain the same, like him or dis-like him.

For me, he inspired me so much as a young lad that my life changed and I have trained, fought and taught Martial arts for 40 years now. I found my passion in Muay Thai but respect all fighting and sporting arts.

My debt to a man who I have never met is rooted so deeply and personal that I hope to travel to Seattle next year, 40 years on his anniversary of his death, to pay my respects at his grave.

I will unashamedly admit that I will blub like a girl when I approach his grave and just like when I met Muhammad Ali, I will say exactly the same words 'Thank you sir for inspiring me'

SHAUN

Nicely put Shaun, both comments.
Bruce Lee's philosophy lives on.





But still, K-1 is definitely a form of Kickboxing ;)

LOL @ Actionpromo's

Great posts Shaun. :)

Olympic Taekwondo is definitely 'Kick' boxing ;-)

another nice post SHAUN and I agree with your thoughts and comments on both ali and bruce lee.. both legends

Olympic TaeKwonDo is 'modified' kickboxing :)

Not really, I'd label it karate, though TKD itself is the actual discipline/sport..... God, let's not get into it !!!!!

Olympic TaeKwonDo is 'modified' TaeKwonDo not true TKD.

Yawn, get down the gym, train in your preferred discipline, shut up. Modified, shmodified, all a set of nit pickers not realising how boring you sound.

dvs1: Get a grip bud, it's only banter... No likey, no commenty!

Ok sorry but fuck me sideways what a waste of space of a thread and the last 10mins of my life. Ok here we go, 1 Neil you are wrong again and now to prove that.

Kazuyoshi Ishiifounded K-1 in 1993 and is from a Karate background, he started K-1 after he had already founded his own Karate foundation. So therefore K-1 comes from a KARATE background, not Kickboxing and is a brand of all different martial arts blended to make a brand. Please read here!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazuyoshi_Ishii

No ffs leave it alone, i havent "cyber bullied" you at all grow up, stated what i wanted to get accross and will happily tell you in person i dont a flying. Its my opinion and as just proven is the correct 1. Your from a Kickboxing background and defending what you love fair play i have no problem with that, its good to see. My problem is the constant boredom of you trying to push "Kickboxing is K-1" down everyone's throats when the facts are, no one cares and we just carried on cause your like a shark biting away at a little piece of meat, snap in a second and easy to wind up we all think its funny as. Just calm it with the essays nobody other than you even reads or cares about them. I'm fighting on 2 K-1 shows within 3 weeks of each other and will most likely be signed by 1 or the other, maybe both if i'm lucky. Its amazing money, i'm 33 i will take that chance and hopefully finally be able to make some money out of the sport i love so much what wrong with that?? Whether its K-1 or Thai whats it matter, or have to do with you?? I will fight K-1 and Thai basically where the money and big fights are.

sorted! the sexual midget has spoken :D
close the thread before neil posts another essay

Kickboxing isn't K-1, K-1 is a form of Kickboxing.
Who do you believe Wiki (that anyone can edit) or the K-1 official website? Is it not therefor proven by K-1 themselves what they are?

By the way, good luck on the K-1 bouts, great achievement even to get in.

We should all blowdown to the chavvy dwarf

Will you wear your connermans kick ass jacket when you make your pilgrimage Shaun? I think Bruce would like that

Firstly - and you know this - it was Liam+Liamer plus yourself that had a go at me.

If that is hard for you to remember, then simply re-read the thread on the £5'000.00 tournament.

---

Secondly, after comments by 'others' and yourself ( didnt you tell me there was no such technique..... ) I again... Just offered the truth - and of course you know I was right about the knee-kick in the official K-1 rules ( article 5 ), as you are competing on an official K-1 event. Note - you still have not posted a retraction, and I do not think that you will. Again, as stated above, I defended criticism from you - and was correct.

---

Also mentioned previously, is the fact that K-1 'NOW - IN THIS DAY AND AGE' is promotings itself a KICKBOXING promotion. Yourself and 'others' insisted before, and are still insisting now that K-1 is not a format of Kickboxing. EVEN THOUGH 'K-1' ARE - SEE THEIR NEW WEBSITE, READ THE PRESS RELEASES BY DOUG KAPLAM CEO OF K-1 GLOBAL. Again, I am not inventing this, K-1 is OFFICIALLY stating this. With this in posted and proven, most people would again, hold their hands up and say - fair enough, maybe I have not followed the sport that closely in recent years etc... Refering back to old marketing by FEG who owned K-1 previously, has no bearing on the sport TODAY.

You keep saying that I keep bringing it up - yet all I am doing is replying to your post.

I have wished you, and the other UK fighters the best of luck for their Kickboxing bouts, wether with the GLORY Kickboxing promotion or the K-1 Kickboxing promotion, and once again - I wish you good luck on the KRUSH Kickboxing promotion this weekend.

If you new me better, you would know that I am not pushing K-1 as Kickboxing due to Kickboxing background, as I have roots in Muaythai also. I also have similar views on Muaythai, that being that there should be none of this Modified-Muaythai nonsence, there should be none of the 'C' class modified-Muaythai or 'B' Class modified Muaythai, as this is not how the sport is conducted in the Stadiums of Thailand. To be called Muaythai, a bout should include Elbows and Knees to the head and be contested over three minute rounds.

'A' Class Full-Thai-Rules should not even be called as such, it should just be called Professional Muaythai.

So there you have it. K-1 is CURRENTLY - TODAU promoting itself as a Kickboxing promotion, therefore it is a format of KICKBOXING.

If people want to go around offering incorrect info to people, students, spectators of their shows, that 'C' class is Muaythai and that 'B' class is Muaythai and that 'K-1' is modified-Thai then that is either their ignorance ( lack of knowledge ) or just them twisting Muaythai to suit their own personal agenda.

Muaythai - See Stadiums of Thailand.
K-1 - See current info on K-1 website stating it is THE WORLDS LARGEST KICKBOXING PROMOTION - ( not my words ).

PS Hiza-Geri, ask any Japanese trainer for a translation while you are there, and do not worry - they wont laugh you out of the dojo! ( A reply to your insult to me on a prev thread - you poss can remember that one ).

Best of luck at KRUSH!

I was going to wear my 'Enter the Dragon speedos' but wearing my corner-man jacket is an excellent idea ;-)

ah fuck too late!!

When has anyone said it's modified Muay Thai? Or have I missed this?

It's not, it's 'Modified Full Contact Kyukoshin-Muay Karate Boxing', everyone knows that :)

Well I'm glad we've cleared that up. lol

I still think that Olympic Taekwondo is pure 'Kick' boxing ;-)
Anyhow we train in roller skates and use a dance back-beat so I guess you could call it modified Muay Thai ;-)

We also use the elbow punch, knee kick, head block & clinch cuddle ;-)

Haha hoostfan strikes again. dont no me prick so shut it. this whole thread is a bore gun to head type shit. laters carry on talking shit the lot of you. bigger things going on than you loosers, have fun.

Muay1
Posted: 2012-08-09 11:05:28
When has anyone said it's modified Muay Thai? Or have I missed this?

---

Good question! Only a fool would use this term to describe a
K-1 rules contest.

By calling a 'K-1' rules contest a 'Modified-Thai' bout, they are implying that there is a format called K-1 style Muaythai!!!

Or maybe a format K-1 style Thai-Boxing.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure there is only one format of Professional Muaythai going on in the stadiums of Thailand, week and week out.

Or is there lots of 'C' class, 'B' class 'Modified-Thai K-1' class bouts that I am unaware of at Lumpini and Raja?

lol...except maybe for the JD stadium Bangkok

Seems that even the Thais are getting confused ;)

JD Stadium

Good find Dave ;)

---

Regarding what they train or compete in, some may say...

Muay Thai Boxing
Muay Thai
Thai

None are incorrect per se, and you understand what is meant, and what you would expect if you participated or spectated.

K-1 style Kickboxing
K-1 Style
K-1

But people generally understand that both are different sports / formats ( millions of people globally follow K-1, GLORY, ItsShowtime events etc.. ).

Some gyms in Thailand now recognise that there is a wider market than just strictly offering Muaythai, as there are also gyms in Thailand offering training in the sport of M.M.A.

If you won a Lumpini Stadium title, you would be a Muaythai Champion.

If you won a UFC title, you would be an M.M.A. Champion.

If you won a 'K-1' ( K-1 regard itself as a Kickboxing promotion ) or 'GLORY' or ITsSHOWTIME title, you would be a Kickboxing Champion.

If you were a Muaythai fighter competing in an MMA contest. You could still be classed as a Muaythai fighter.

If you were a Muaythai fighter competing in a Kickboxing contest, you could still be classed as a Muaythai fighter.

But different combat-sport formats should be recognised as being different.

So if you have a Muaythai contest on show, you are promoting a Muaythai bout.

If you have a K-1 rules contest on a show, you are promoting a Kickboxing bout.

Thailand, now seems to recognise this with camps offering sports specific training for

...Muaythai, K-1 and M.M.A.

They could offer 'Muay Thai Boxing', 'K-1 style Kickboxing' and 'Mixed-Martial-Arts' - but all of that would be a bit of a mouthfull!

Muaythai, K-1 and M.M.A. would easily suffice to most Europeans.

All good ;)

I just can't work you out Neil. You just don't give up. lol

A quick google of 'types of kickboxing' brings up a lot of 'opinions' written on various websites. Noted that they are just opinions but it may paint a picture of general opinions from non-Axers.... And most of these versions of kickboxing don't wear silky pj's or moon boots:

Here's my links and essay:


Photo Credit kick k image by Andrey Kiselev from Fotolia.com
Kickboxing is a popular martial art that is practiced for training and competition. Like karate, there are many styles of kickboxing originating in different places and emphasizing different types of attacks and techniques. The most popular styles have affiliations and teaching studios, or dojos, all over the world.
AMERICAN KICKBOXING
A style of fighting developed in the 1970s, American kickboxing is a combination of karate and boxing that incorporates more rules of traditional boxing than many other kickboxing styles. In describing the rules, Pinellas Fitness and Martial Arts explains that punches and kicks are the strikes allowed. Opponents are only allowed to target their strikes above the waist, like traditional boxing. As with most kickboxing styles, bouts are held between fighters of similar weights and take place in timed rounds.
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MUAY THAI
Also called Thai kickboxing, Muay Thai is believed to have originated up to 2,000 years ago in Thailand. Muay Thai Online states that this more open style allows strikes not only with the fists and feet but also elbow and knee strikes. Fighters can target above and below the waist, and kicks to the legs are used to weaken an opponent's mobility and striking power.
LETHWEI
Lethwei is a raw form of kickboxing from Burma. Exceedingly brutal in its early forms, the modern competition style of Lethwei is more controlled and similar to Thai boxing in its rules. Full Contact Martial Arts describes the style as allowing attacks with all limbs, elbow and knee strikes, and even headbutts. No protective gear is worn by fighters and Lethwei is viewed by many as a more pure style of kickboxing than some of the more regulated forms.
SANDA
Sanda, or San Shou, is a style of kickboxing that stems from the ancient Chinese Wushu fighting style. The style was developed by the Chinese military, and in competition form certain strikes are forbidden and protective gear is worn. However, the Russian Federation of Traditional Wushu and Sanda describes Sanda as a complete fighting style that teaches all types of techniques including takedowns and throws.
ADITHADA
An ancient style of fighting from India, Adithada shares much with Muay Thai, according to the International Adithada Federation. Fought without protecting pads and including strikes with the feet, hands, knees, elbows and head, Adithada also includes grappling techniques. Targets on the opponents are focused on known pressure points of the body. Once repressed in India by British rule, the style is now widely practiced in rural areas of India and elsewhere.
YAW YAN
Also called Filipino Kickboxing, the name Yaw Yan means "dance of death." This style of kickboxing was developed in the early 1970s, around the same time as American kickboxing, and emphasizes fluidity of motion. Full Contact Martial Arts says Yaw Yan shares much with Muay Thai and Sanda, but differentiates itself by including many types of kicks, like the martial art tae kwon do. The style also incorporates downward striking kicks with intimidating names such as the "scorpion kick."
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Ladies Kickboxing fitness, fun, flexibility as u tone Smile,sweat,learn, beginners only www.blackbelt4sure.com
Secrets of I Chuan Learn the 8 Standing Postures for Internal Power, Strength and Health www.energyarts.com
Martial Arts Training Perfect for Tooting. Martial Arts Classes For All Levels gymlondonsouth.com
Sponsored Links
REFERENCES
Pinellas Fitness and Martial Arts: Full Contact
Muay Thai Online: About Muay Thai
Full Contact Martial Arts: Lethwei and Yaw Yan
Russian Federation of Traditional Wushu and Sanda: Sanda (San Shou
International Adithada Federation: History
Article reviewed by WilliamS Last updated on: Jun 5, 2010


Links

http://www.livestrong.com/article/140262-types-kickboxing/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickboxing

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=687404&page=1

http://www.karateforums.com/japanese-kickboxing-v-american-kickboxing-v-european-kickbox-vt43365.html


A 2minute search brings up loads relating to the differing types of kickboxing with many references to Japanese Kickboxing, Muay Thai and K-1, so maybe fair to say that all of the sports above are versions of kickboxing so fall under the kickboxing umbrella.

ActionPromo's Exactly its all part of the "Kickboxing" tree with each branch its own style and rule set.

like I said in a previous thread, it's a generic term, so what's all the fuss about?

the problem is Neil is coming across as saying k1 is the same as the kick boxing he does and its clearly nothing like

No Paul, the problem is the following.

Statements have been made like...

K-1 is a muaythai format - called 'Modified-Thai' - WRONG!

You cannot knee in 'Kickboxing' - WRONG!

---

In the UK some people do not accept K-1 as a Kickboxing format, even though K-1 clearly calls itself a Kickboxing promotion!!

Instead they are classing it as a format of Muaythai, called Modified-Thai, and slotting it next to other Muaythai formats ( 'C' Class Muaythai format and 'B' Class Muaythai format ).

Surely if K-1 say they are a Kickboxing promotion they have the right to be addressed as such!

Do you not think so???

---

The second problem, is that some people seem to think that you cannot use a knee in any format of Kickboxing!

Its is obvious now that K-1 is a Kickboxing format.... and their rules do actually use knees, as their rules regard a knee strike as a knee-kick! ( Shock - horror ).

That then makes the statement that you cannot knee in Kickboxing to be quite wrong.

Further to this, the K-1 format, has been adopted by other KICKBOXING promotions such as ItsShowtime, GLORY, KRUSH, SuperKombat. If you watch any of their Kickboxing bouts - they also allow knee-kicks.

This again, makes a non-sense of the statement that you cannot knee in Kickboxing ( any format?? ) As obviously there are plenty of Kickboxing events being watched on television by millions of people that do allow knee strikes.

---

Muaythai Boxing - is a sport promoted regularly by stadiums in Thailand.

Kickboxing - is a sport promoted by promotions such as K-1, GLORY, ItsShowtime, SuperKombat...

Mixed-Martial-Arts - is a sport promoted by promotions such as UFC, Bellator, M-1 Global.

Muaythai
K-1
MMA

Seperate sports.

Can you knee during some formats of Kickboxing - yes!

Should K-1 be called Modified-Thai - no!

Is K-1 a Kickboxing format - yes.

Have a nice weekend!

PS - Best wishes to Howsen!

No Paul Neil is trying to explain that K-1 is a form of kickboxing not that Kickboxing is K-1 as that would be incorrect

Neil why do you care so much? Liam and the rest are obviously not that bothered. We all know what K-1 is, why don't we just leave it there. You repeating yourself over and over again is just making yourself look like a loon.

I think I'll teach the Hiza Geri at my Dojo tonight.

Nephilim disrespecting Bruce Lee ??? (shakes head in dissaproval).
My 9 year old son was also disgusted he said "Bruce Lee was one of the greatest martial artists of his time".

I know that Hiza-Geri traditionally means Knee Kick, however i dont personally like that term.
The same way i don like the term "Heel kick" or "kagato Geri"

The problems with posting links to the internet is that the people who wrote them are probably no more authorities on the subject than are the posters on this website.

Raymond, we can't post links to anything else, and as explained the links were to show other people's opinions.... I agree with Shaun, Grayham Sayer and yourself with the regards kickboxing definition.

Wow Neil has surpasses Sandy Holt on twatness, not an easy feat. Pat yourself on the back Neil, you done what no other can.

I don't understand why Neil is getting a hard time for proving his points correct? Truth hurts as they say.... Not nice calling people a twat, especially in a sport that is supposed to be noted for it's humility and respect, etc.

im laughin my head off at this haha actually started reading the posts cant believe what iv been missing hahaha

They call it a knee kick because it is a translation to English which is obviously not their first language. In English to the English it sounds a bit stupid. It's as simple as that really, why anyone actually gives a shit I don't know. It's the same as when they say rubbery and obviously mean
Lovely we know what they mean.

i have seen muaythai reffered to as style of kickboxing!! but this is just a generalisation to a non understanding or otherwise uneducated public. i think that most combat sports that tend to stand up only (apart from boxing)are generaly refered to as a style of kickboxing!! however if you are a muaythai champion, you are a muaythai champion not a kickboxing champion, if you are a k1 champion, you are a k1 champion not a kickboxing champion, if you are a glory champion then you are a glory champion not a kickboxing champion ect ect, the term kickboxing is used as a basic generalisation. even the sport of kickboxing as we know it has so many different variations its self, low kick, full-contact, semi-contact, light continuess and so on!!
these big promotions companies/branded fight orginisations only describe themselves as kickboxing promotions to let a wider audience understand roughly what it is that they are promoting!

one more time..... lol

Great

BARRHEAD MUAY-THAI please describe to me what K-1 is? and also what the Glory World Series is?

I would describe k-1 and glory as stand up fighting promotions allowing combatants to use punches, kicks and knees!. Yes it could be described as massive kickboxing promotions, but could also quite easily be described as massive martial arts events!!!
These promotions choose to use the term kickboxing because it is the most widely recognised description for the general public to understand what's happening.

It's like having the world rally championship winner and the formula 1 winner! Both could be described as Motorsport champions in general terms, however I'm sure both parties would want to be described as they are - WRC Champion or F1 champion and not Motorsport champion.

Formula 1 is a form of motor sport with its own rules and regulations, just as World Rally Championship has its own rules and regulations, the same as K-1 which is a form of Kickboxing has its own rules and regulations and Muay Thai which also has its own rules and regulations and so on for Full contact etc, they all have there own rules and regulations.

You are quite right the fighter would like to be refered to as K-1 Champion, Glory Champion, and Muay thai Champion etc, but they are also Kickboxing Champions! The same way Lewis Hamilton was 2008 FIA Formula one World Champion he was also a Motorsports World Champion telling people he is an F1 Champion allows people to know what type of motor sport he is a champion of! the same way telling people you are a K-1 Champion tells people what type of Kickboxing you are a champion of!

if you said to someone im a K-1 Champion and they said whats K-1 and you said " a stand up fighting promotion allowing combatants to use punches, kicks and knees" you would sound silly and the person you were talking to would probably give you a strange look.

Fair comment

technically they would be a combat sport champion, as kickboxing is a form of combat sport....so you contradict yourself Graham

Strong Hand
Posted: 2012-08-11 12:00:14
technically they would be a combat sport champion, as kickboxing is a form of combat sport....so you contradict yourself Graham


no contradiction just never went that far up the tree, so as well as being a K-1 Champion & Kickboxing Champion they Would also be a Combat Sport Champion. hows that?

K-1 Kickboxing Chapion, perhaps?

im k1 champion...whats that....its a mix of everything...not hard really

Surely it depends on the art the fighter studies, if the likes of Howson, Harrison and Watson have studied Thai all their Career and use those skills in the ring whether the show says kickboxing or not then to them they are thai champions.

If a football team travels to American and takes part in a Soccer Championship I'm sure they'll see themselves as football players.

Kickboxing is obviously a generic team regonised by the masses and used for that reason.

When the likes of Howson, Harrison and Watson start strapping pillows to their feet and doning Gay pants to throw some tip tap shit kicks then they are kickboxers, When the wages are coming in i doubt they care what it says on the promotion they'll just go out and do what they do, just like becham did with football/scoccer

Most retarded thread ever

I read Howson lost? something about getting into the wrong sort of fight?
any details?

HoostFan
Posted: 2012-08-12 04:14:30
"Most retarded thread ever"

---

Lol, only for the retards that STIL keep insisting that K-1 is not a Kickboxing format.

Retard, when K-1 officially call itself... "the Worlds largest KICKBOXING promotion".

ps: pretty sure that the closest you get to a combat sport that is a 'mix of everything' is called... M.M.A. ( Mixed-Martial Arts ).

ok then its a mix of stand up fight sports minus elbows and less clinch to make it non stop action....there you go smart arse

Liam,

Previously you called it..

"Modified-Thai",

---

now you have changed that, and are now calling it...

"a mix of stand up fight sports minus elbows and less clinch to make it non stop action"

WTF???

---

Liam, has nobody explained to you that "K-1" officially call themselves a "KICKBOXING" promotion???

Official K-1 WEBSITE:

http://www.k-1.tv/en/news-list.php

If "K-1" call their bouts "KICKBOXING" then perhaps this is what it should correctly be called by others.

Grown men?

Reads like a group children playing tit for tat!

Who cares how "Liam and Co" Refer to K1, is it really something that grates that much on you that this thread has been created and has become quite repetative?

Freedom of speech and own opinion sping to mind.

K :)

There is no intrinsic value to having the last word. When we accept that is has no value we begin to see things in a more positive light.

We’re more likely to be less annoyed without feeling the need to attempt to be outdone by someone having the last word on any given conversation.

When we choose to give the other person the last word we will stop the conversation in its tracks.

When we choose not to have the last word we take away the stress associated with having to have the last word. We also stop the need for us to be self-righteous all the time. Why do we have to prove to the other person that we’re right? As long as we know we’re right, that’s all that matters.

SHAUN

http://message.axkickboxing.com/index.phtml?action=dispthread&topic=36302&topicgroup=axmain&junk=3362

If you follow the above link, and take some time to read this you will find that I was attacked via posts on this particular thread.

Why?

Because I said that I was organising a Tournament, to the same rules as is being used by the main Kikcboxing promotions in Europe, which are ItsShowtime, GLORY, SuperKombat, K-1 etc... in order to give U.K. fighter more much needed experience under this Kickboxing format should they get offered a big fight with one of the main kikcboxing promotions.


I also explained, that as these rules use the K-1 format, the rules would be the same and include the knee-kick.

The event not only is going to give U.K. fighters a very good purse for the winner, but also have an additional £1'000.00 best K.O. of the night bonus.

Nothing wrong on my side, if anything I though that this event would be well received by people.

Then Liam lead the way with comments to 'dis' me. Something he has openly said he was doing just for a wind up - which is no different to bullying ( ie choose an individual, and then persistantly attempt to put them under stress / duress ).

Well, I am not so much bothered by the bullying - but in his pursuit of making me look in the wrong - it is actually himself that has been made to look foolish.

K-1 is a Kickboxing format. The more he insists it is not, when K-1 officially call themselves a Kickboxing promotion, the more he now looks the fool.

Of course he could always appologise for his eaelier actions, but I dont expect he will.

Look who is actually wrong and who was right all along.

http://message.axkickboxing.com/index.phtml?action=dispthread&topic=36302&topicgroup=axmain&junk=3362

So, is that the 'last word?' (taking into account what I have written above?)

Neil on evfery thread i have said ITS LIKE MODIFIED MUAYTHAI not it should bge called modified muaythai why do you care so much what i think its more like. go put your blackbelt and judo suit back on do some spinning heel kicks and karate chops and do one

Reverting to comments, in the hope that it will encourage trolls to post rubbish and deflect what has gone on - is a bit sad and pathetic.

Liam, could you please answer me the following... Is K-1 a Kickboxing format... Yes or No?

Could everyone else pls answer me the following is neil Holden a bellend YES or NO?

if you havent noticed i do not care neil so leave me alone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ynbDgeynq4&hd=1&hd=1&autoplay=1

Please copy and paste the above link.

It is the official "K-1 Rising USA event promo video" on youtube.

I am having some trouble embedding video. If anyone could do this for me, it would be appreciated.

Liam,

Is K-1 a Kickboxing format, yes or no?

Woah!

Explosive Kickboxing - didn't you say that you had never seen any explosive kickboxing?

Plenty of explosive striking. All Kicks and Boxing, and also (under article 5 of K-1 rules), you will also see Knee-Kicks!

Oh well that answers my question! I shall leave you all to it, happy 'high grounding' :-)

Liam,

Is K-1 a Kickboxing format, yes or no?

It's repetitive, mind numbing, irrelevant threads like this, and people like Neil Holden that put me off even reading AX these days!!

I'm actually cringing/embarrassed for you Neil! My God!!!!!!!

I think we are getting a little mixed up here with regards to how we use the term "kickboxing". As i said before, I think these major promotions choose to use the term "kickboxing" to help describe the type of event it is, maybe to make it more understandable to the general public

I think its important to remember that "K-1" invented these rules, not any Kickboxing governing body, even though K-1 may use the term kickboxing to describe their product best!!

Who owns Kickboxing to be able to say that K-1 is infact a kickboxing format? is Muaythai a kickboxing format? or do we only use the term to describe it some times?

It feels as though this full scenario has been brought on by the fact that certain Kickboxing enthusiasts have jumped on the bandwaggon of these massive fight promotions that have described themselves as type of kickboxing, to maybe justify that kickboxing isnt just what most people perceive it to be, and that it encompases almost everything that involes punches and kicks!!

the term "Kickboxing" doesent entirely describe the rules of these Promotions correctly either because you are also aloud to knee, and knee with limited clinch. kickboxing automatcally tells me "box & kick"

If i was running K-1 and looking to best describe it to the general public, what would i say - its a style of boxing? its a style of kickboxing? its a style of martial arts, its a style of stand up fighting?........... i would use its a style of "kickboxing" not because it is a format of Kickboxing butbecause it is the closest descriptive term to it.

15 fights 70% Knockout ???

So 10 and a half fights were KO's? whats half a ko? or was it half a fight? :-S

lol

What a crazy thread.

I have somewhat come to these conclusions:

1) People are struggling to define the word 'Kickboxing'

2) My interpretation, like a few others, is Kickboxing is a generic term used to describe many combat sports

3) Certain people seem to think Kickboxing is just in long pants and kickboots. I believe this is totally incorrect as there is a specific name for this; full contact - a form of kickboxing

4) Seems a percentage of Muay Thai practitioners dont want to be associated with the word kickboxing for whatever reason, so much so that they refuse to acknowledge that k1 is actually a form of kickboxing, just like running, high jump, javelin, shot put, etc, is a form of athletics.

5) There seems to be a misconception that there is some prestige to be had by labelling k1 a kickboxing sport for some reason. beyond me why, as all disciplines of kickboxing are separate and unique.

6) I would label Muay Thai, as well as numerous other South East Asian sports as a form of kickboxing, including all of those i previously named. Kickboxing being generic.

7) I think French Savate looks quite gay, but like it or not it is still a form of kickboxing. Same as that annoyingly painful points crap - even though i feel it shouldn't be.

8) I find it strange how the k-1 organisation can label itself something yet others are basically calling them liars that are falsely advertising their brand.


k-1 is a form of kickboxing. Generically speaking and by there own definition.
k1 is not full contact, or low kicks, or sanda, or muay thai, etc, it is its own unique form of kickboxing.


I understand that people may wish to disassociate themselves from sports they deem either 'lesser' or 'beneath' them, or even just because they don't like it, but at the end of the day it sounds similar to a 'Shot putter' saying "I don't do that crappy athletics, all they do is run around a track weighing 6stones each, i do a power sport"... Err, ok, but it's still athletics.

ActionPromo's you've hit the nail on the head there i agree totally good conclusion.

what happened with the howson fight? was it a good fight?

andys fight was insane...Andy Knocked the jap down twice in round 2 ran in to finish him for the 3rd knockdown to end the fight then got dropped himself 3x and lost 3 knockdown rule....5 knockdowns in 1 round lol. hes gutted but theres a rematch sorted i think so not all bad.

Sounds quite unlucky and exciting. Hopefully a good comeback for him on the cards.

BARRHEAD MUAY-THAI
Posted: 2012-08-13 07:38:40
...the term "Kickboxing" doesent entirely describe the rules of these Promotions correctly either because you are also aloud to knee, and knee with limited clinch. kickboxing automatcally tells me "box & kick"

---

With all due respect, Kickboxing formats class striking with the leg as being a Kick, but restrict particular kicks.

You can kick an opponent with the ball of your foot, or using your toes or using your heel.

Some Kickboxing formats additionally allow kicking with the shin.

Some Kickboxing formats additionally allow kicking with the knee.

Some of this is due to language translations. The Japanese say Hize-Geri, which literally means knee-kick. K-1 was originally developed in Japan, hence the translation and inclusion in the rule set.

Because as you say, Kickboxing automatically tells you to kick and box.... the Japanese would see the Kicks when Kickboxing as including knee-kicks, as well as shin-kicks etc...

TBH if "K-1 Global" and "GLORY" expose this Kickboxing format to audiences in a way that the "U.F.C." has promoted Mixed-Martial-Arts then most people will also see it this way too.

(# P-I-T..Boxing is regarded as Punching with the knuckle of the fist.)

So at the end of the day "K-1" is promoting itself as a Kickboxing format, and its official rules allow knee-kicks.

Neil,

Kickboxing = Karate with Boxing gloves.

So if you add clinch and elbows the 'karate with gloves' then becomes muay thai???

A little crued and not listed everything possible but you should get the jist of it, debate away.

ActionPromo's
Posted: 2012-08-13 11:26:20
So if you add clinch and elbows the 'karate with gloves' then becomes muay thai???



:O so everything is just karate?


my mind = blown lol

Liam I would say yes but I'm affraid of his tigerprawncocktail ninja do yoshi kickboxing style so I'm gonna sit on the fence

lol

JoeToe said it, I just questioned it?


Agree with Graham Sayer's diagram.

......Plums are dear.......

one if not THEE best posts on this TOPIC -





Dave Croft
Posted: 2012-08-08 06:38:34

Im stepping up here to defend Liams argument but at the same time acknowledge the place of K1 as a spectator sport.

At the 02 arena i attended 6 fighters post fight and suchered all 6. Over 67 stitches in total.....Muay Thai comes at a price. Serious damage and possible disfigurement. Those that choose to compete under those rules show particular courage and determination worthy of distinction. And maybe those individuals feel (rightly) that they are a cut above. Liam is such a man.

However; K1 embraces the dynamics of the Thai bout but limits the potential for career shortening wounds. Its possibly easier for an uninitiated audience to understand. So speed, power, excitment,limited potential for damage and an easy to grasp format makes for popular and accessable sport.

Regardless of its origins. K1 really does combine most of the elements of Thai but without the nasty stuff. Possibly its a way for experienced Thai fighters to further their careers?

So rather than debate origins and create division. Lets celebrate that we can two related ring sports we can appreciate.

And good luck to Liam and Andy this weekend.....



Report Post
Dave Croft
Posted: 2012-08-08 06:40:12
When i wrote further i meant extend. As in continue longer than originally planned.

wow there is some people here that are supposed to be role models but they are just pricks. such a shame.

Neil why don't you just stop it. Liam Harrison has spoken now so you should show some respect and do what he says. In fact, how dare you speak against him. Can't you see how many people agree with him?
What is this community coming to when people start having a different opinion to Liam Harrison.
When will you learn Neil?

"Carl McMillan
Posted: 2012-08-14 05:20:13
Neil why don't you just stop it. Liam Harrison has spoken now so you should show some respect and do what he says. In fact, how dare you speak against him. Can't you see how many people agree with him?
What is this community coming to when people start having a different opinion to Liam Harrison.
When will you learn Neil?"

Careful Carl, you may be seen to have a different opinion also from that post. Resistance is futile!

K1 is K1 easy, whether the organisers want to call it Kickboxing, Muay Thai (we all know it isn't)or any other combat sport it is up to them, you can argue about it on a forum all you want, K1 have labelled themself as a kickboxing format, rightly or wrongly.

It is a well paid alternative to the poor mans sport which is Muay Thai. Let them get on with it.

exactly...well said carl :)

Thanks for the acceptance Liam, I feel just like all the others now.

I think Plums are seasonal that is why they are more expensive this time of year Mr. Samms. I find that since supermarkets cut out the old fruit and veg shops they have more control over pricing.

Have you tried local markets? they are more competitive when pricing up plums.

English or Thai Plum?

English plums of course!

Thai I think - as there seems to be plenty on here ;)

The Thai 'Marian' Plum or 'Map-Rang' is a cousin of the mango in miniature. Marian Plums ripen in March to May. It has an oval shape, with green skin, and ripens to a bright yellow or orange skin. Mak Phang has two species: sweet and sour. Sweet Mak Phang is eaten when ripe, while sour Mak Phang is used for making chilli dip or eaten with a sweet-and-salty sauce.

everyday is a school day :)

just to confuse the conversation a bit more...

The Thai Plum ;-)

That diagram doesn't make sense, so mission accomplished :0

Do you wear those Thai Plums around ya neck when in the ring, surprised the ref doesn't say something!!! ;)

I am the Ref! lol :-) Got my girlfriend wearing my plums for earrings;-)

Lol Shaun I nearly spat my tea out then:)

HAHAHA Me too!!!

I mean nearly spat my drink out, not.... Never mind.

Lol it least we werent spitting plums out Actionpromos Thai or otherwise1:)

'Plum chums' ;-)