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The Ax Forum
Muay Thai & Kickboxing Forum Mixed Martial Arts Forum Boxing Forum Fight Training Forum Off Topic Forum
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KLM
Posted: 2002-07-13 06:22:58
I'm not suggesting that all promoters are crooks,there are some really great ones out there but I'd be interested in hearing any horror stories about promoters or promotions that were dogdy.
Different size gloves,mis-matches,short changed fighters,made up titles,different weights or any other stories of promoters pulling a fast one.
I even heard a story of a US promoter a few years back doing a runner with the gate and not paying anything.
Thanks in advance.
KLM.
Lollo
Posted: 2002-07-13 08:31:24
I've had many horror stories from fighters pulled out at last minute and sponsors etc...but the one that top it all of, was when everything was ready, the fighters, the crowd etc...and the ring wasn't completed because some bolts wasn't there. The guys that put the ring up didn't know what to do. Amazingly, I took one of the bolt, ran to the nearest gas station and somehow they got one identical by fluke. The show was at Mandalay, Auckland. They put the ring up and the first firght started at about 9:30 pm instead of 7:30 pm. We were lucky to Filemu as the MC as he talked the whole time together with the DJ. The night turned out no so bad after all, but I haven't been so worried in my life.
David Lucas
Posted: 2002-07-13 09:12:25
heres an email sent to me by a friend of some local fights she attended
fairly recently:

>>hi dave,
the fights were an unqualified catastrophe; so bad as to be farcical. first,
they changed the venue at the last minute to some other nightclub a
ways away from the original site, then they started two hours late (at 10pm)
because the cops came since they were selling beer without an alcohol permit.
so to pass the time from 8pm-10pm they showed really poorly produced home
movies of fights, which featured grainy footage and very bizarre commentary.
additionally, the few fights i did stay for were rather boring (and the three
exhibition children's matches was kinda pushing it that late in the night).<<
KLM
Posted: 2002-07-13 16:25:44
I heard one story of a well known fighter(without naming this guy) pulling out of a fight and did not tell the promoter,everyone else knew but the promoter.
The promoter had to get another fighter within 24 hours,which must have been a nightmare,tickets were sold venue,undercard etc already to go.
It ended the main event was a great fight,the fighter that had pulled out just didn't want to fight that night,he wasn't even injured.
Lollo
Posted: 2002-07-13 16:35:02
Yeah....I came across that too KLM..This guy even came to the weighed in. And he was in the stadium watching the fight. He sneaked in and sit with peole who don't know him. The MC kept on announcing him on the night. LOL! His opponent is a fellow AXer in here. I won't tell you who the guy is that did the runner, but his opponent was Rebel here on AX. LOL! I'm laughing now, but at the time, it wasn't funny at all. It was a full night and I had TV coverage also.
73219 : I bet you can't top this!!

Dreadsen
Posted: 2002-07-14 03:58:13
There is a Mixed Martial arts gym here by the name of Degerberg Academy of Martial Arts. They focus mainly on this fighting style called the Degerberg Blend.
I don't like the blend because I don't like belt ranking systems.
So I use their facilities to train and I ocassionaly find one of their guys to sparr with.
So whenever they have smokers they would invite me to fight.

The last one I fought in was on April 5th. They told me over a month prior that it was Muay Thai rules. It was made perfectly clear that knees and Muay thai throws were allowed.
My opponent was a low kick kickboxer who was only fighing me because he had more experience, was taller, 25 pounds heavier and figured it was an easy win. He refused to fight anyone else.
First the guy came to me and said he won't fight 5 rounds. A week later he said only three rounds.
Then he said a few days later he would only go two rounds. Then a week before the fight he said he would only fight with shin guards!!!!

I figure since he wasn't experienced with knees and throws that i would focus on that.
As soon as the fight started I went right for the clinch.
I kneed him and they told me that I couldn't do that.
I threw him on his head with an upper body throw and they yelled at me and told me no throws were allowed.
At this point the fight stopped and I was arguing with the ref and one of the promoters.
I kept getting yelled at for hitting him in the back of the head while he was doing it too. They didn't tell him to stop until it got ridiculous in the last round.
When the fight was over I tried to tell Degerberg the promoter my complaint and he turned his back and walked away.
Why do they call it Thaiboxing if you can't knee, elbow or do throws?
And he is susposed to be a certified instructor from Thailand. I think that is a hoax. They think Thaiboxing is kickboxing with kicks to the legs.






Muaythai King
Posted: 2002-07-14 05:53:50
Dreadsen,
You should've whooped the promotor's ass with an example of MT, then he would have seen the difference between MT & KB!!.........lol
Mr Smith
Posted: 2002-07-14 16:55:45
I've got a few. Wont name any names or places though!

I had a fight in France once. We didnt arrive until 1.00 in the morning and the fight was next day. We asked about the weigh in but they said the opponent had already weighed in and because we were so late the officials had gone home so we had to wait till midday on the day of the fight to weigh in! We were only late because of the travel arrangement the promoters had made.

I once had to give 4 kg away because I weighed in a kilo light on the promoters scales. My opponent was 3kg over. They made him skip for 20 minutes and he lost 0.3kg. Then they said the officials had to go, so that would have to do.

I've arrived at the airport with Lisa once when she was due to fight and noone was there to pick us up. We made our own way to the hotel/casino where the fights were being held which was a really great hotel to be told they hadnever heard of us. We had to wait around for another 2 hours until someone turned up and we wewre them told that although Lisas opponent and all the other fighters were staying in this hotel, we were in one 20 minutes walk away. Not only that but we had to walk back to the Casino for our meals.
At the same place our hotel room phone rang at 2.00 am and 4.00 am with noone at the other end on the night before the fight, until I disconected it.

On another one in France we had to walk back from the venue to the hotel after the fight and make our own way to the airport next day. The promoters paid us and then siad "Goodbye, you're on your own now"! We also found out that they had a big party after the show but we weren't invited!
Farhad
Posted: 2002-07-14 19:08:10
Thats coz french promoters are bastards! ive heard that russian promoters are even worse they stitch up fighters really badly!
Mr Smith
Posted: 2002-07-15 03:16:56
Ive only been to Russia a couple of times but I cant say I have any complaints. We were always treated well and had a great time. I think its down to individual promoters, not the country they are from.
Dynamo
Posted: 2002-07-15 03:29:28
Well guys, I just went through one this saturday.13/7/2002
To start off it was not a Gala organized by our MT federation , but it was a paid for gala were we got the money up in front /that was the only possitive thing/. The deal was we provide the fights, and they will organize everything else.
There was 4 international fights - they had no flags no anthems, no weight in scale no tables for the judges, no doctor, nothing . After 1/2 hour I thought I was going to collapse. Plus I rellied on an idiot to bring me 2 fighters from Croatia since I had no ties with them perssonaly. Well as it turned out niether had the other person/ see topic - 2 Dynamo/. So we were 2 fights short.
I the middle of gala the electicity came off for 1/2 hour. Usally after the gala we stay and celebrate with our boys and other fighters. This time we went home right after the fights ended.
One advice to any promoter - never relly on other people , check everything twice and do everything by yourself.
fresh
Posted: 2002-07-15 04:26:24
There are some honest promoters out there (like JNI )who pay on the spot for fighters and venues and everything else.

There are some cheap ass promoters who think they can run a big huge show and can't pay up at the end of the day (they know who they are.





David Cummings
Posted: 2002-07-15 08:03:51
Well my worst story is definately in France. We were not picked up at the airport for starters. Finally the next day they met us at a hotel thanks to canal plus. When Dida and I finally weighed in their where 2 diffefrent contracts. Mine said 135 lbs his said 147 lbs. Big difference!! The expense money was screwed up.. The whole fight was a cluster and this was a huge show. I truly believe if we would not have demanded cash up front I would not have been paid
Lollo
Posted: 2002-07-15 18:24:07
I took a couple of fighters (Super Charge and Rebel) to Australia (Melbourne). During the flight, super charge said that he felt uncomfortable up high on his left thigh. He thought it must have been hard training a week earlier and just tried to blocked it out.

Anyway, when we got there, the promoter picked us up. On the way to our hotel, he almost ran over a couple of people who swored at us and calling us names. He was a maniac driver. We stopped over a shopping center. Well...not exactly. This lady was just about reversing to this parking space, but this guy rushed in, stole her parking spot from behind her, hopped off the car and rushed into the shop, leaving us to copped all the flaks from this lady. Understandbly, she was really pissed. She was threating to get her husband to come out and shoot us. Rebel, Supercharge and myself just set quietly in the car. She was absolutely right. I half opened my mouth but she was too histericles and because supercharge and myself are colour, out come the racists remarks. I thought I better just shut up and let it come out of her system. We had only known this guy for about 10 minutes, and already we almost got killed twice. We also wanted to kill him also...LOL!

Anyway, it didn't stopped there. After we settled in the hotel, we went for a workout at Stan "The Man's gym. After the light workout, supercharge could hardly walked. We as Dana (Stan's coach)if he know a doctor. We went to this docotor and found out that supercharge had a really bad abscess. They took pints of fluid instantly. Here is our situation. We got there, contract and everything were all secured this is only a day before the event. I was totally against it, but supercharged still wanted to fight. The day of the fight, supercharge felt a lot better since the fluid was taken out, but also had to take antibiotics. We had our plan. Give it everything he's got in the first round and if he gets tired, I would throw in the towel. If that wasn't enough, the opponent just happened to be Ian "Power House" Jacob. That's just great. LOL! The fight went on, the two had good punches/kicks exchanged. Supercharge got Ian with a good shot but Ian kept coming back and eventually got supercharge with a short right hand. Supercharge stayed down and the fight was stopped. After that, Rebel had a good battle with Darryn Hedgecock but his left shin split open, from blocking Darry's hard low kicks. I had to stopped that fight and almost argue with Rebel over it fight in the ring...LOL! When we got out from the changing room, I had to spent the next half hour arguing with the promoter as he was going to pay us cheque. LOL! Eventually we got our cash and found our way back. That same promoter had rang me a couple more times to bring fighters to his show but I didn't bother to answer his call. In fact, I don't think any one else from NZ took any fighters to his shows after that.
73465 : LOOKS like the FROGS / french get the Title hahah

SANDY HOLT
Posted: 2002-07-15 20:31:04
Well we went to France to fight me and 2 stable mates the formidable Harrison Bros:Humphrey and Oliver
they gave us 4 days in Paris where the fight was ! BUT............
we had to drive to the furthest airport at 4.30 am Morning ! and had NO sleep ! had to drive through the night to London ( we live around manchester, and 250 miles from airport ! even though we have a Big airport in Manchester ! )
we ended up getting lost on the INFAMOUS M25 london orbitol motorway and missing our plane ! BUT me and my big mouth persuaded the airline to put us on the next flight some 5 hours later sat waiting in airport on standby ! Knackered and worried at this point !
We then had no-one to pick us up so we got a taxi to the venue ( yes same night ! ) straight off the plane / taxi and they even made us weigh in at the entrance in the hall of the venue ?? in our underwear ( as they wernt happy we was late ! but it was only 6.00pm and the show didnt start till 7.30 and ended up being 8.30pm )
Next we all fought at the very end of the show in the ENGLAND v France show ! they made a big show about it with flags and national anthems etc: to which of the 2,000 crowd we got NO shouts ! haha the french eh ! GREAT ! all this was fine BUT Oliver shocked the crowd BY WINNING as your NOT supposed to win really abroad are you ?? for some reason ?? !! Not only did he win BUT punished the guy with leg kicks and a high kick 2nd round KO This PI**ED the partisan crowd off no end !
Oliver by the way went on at 11.30p.m. I went on at 11.45 ish and was lucky also and won with a 4th round ko ( oops the french hahah ) Then Humphrey who by this time 12.15 .a.m. was very tired as we all was ! he had a war with the local champion and went the distance ! but lost on points !
So now its the day after ! left to look after ourselves after our cornerman nearly had to battle for our fight fees and tried to rip us off by thinking we didnt know the exchange rate !
so 3 days walking around the suburbs of Paris NO one to show us about ! didnt get to any sights as we didnt even know where we was ? so it took 1.5 days to get there and fight same night we arrived ! ?? and they gave us 3 days after the fight >?? strange ?? We then couldnt get our passports off the guesthouse as the promoter hadnt paid our hotel ! We had to argue to the point where we nearly missed our flight as he wouldnt let go our passports ! BUT luckily a guy who a sort of helperat the fights, also staying at the guest house spoke French and English said he would gett he money sorted as he was the promoters friend ! and we got out JUST Thought we was gonna do another 5 rounder with him ! arrrgh! THE FRENCH !
arr well haha
sandy man holt
u.k.m.t.a
www.thaiboxing.co.uk
RedEyeKnight
Posted: 2002-07-15 20:59:38
I got ripped in Kiev in the Ukraine about 7 years ago..i was 66kg and i was told that other guy was the same...only he looked like one of the Klitchko brothers when i saw him..same hight but at least 7kg over..i fought him anyway last a crazy bastard like me does..got battered for 2 rounds..went down twice before slipping a quick uppercut when i was on the ropes and dropping him like a bag of shit! i was a little surprised as i didnt put much into it. the audience was dead..they dont even shout or stand up there..just clap their hands when their fighters win

full contact rules by the way
Dave Jackson
Posted: 2002-07-16 02:44:43
Hey Mr Smith! I was with you in Paris on that last one. They even left us at the venue with an injured fighter after the fights and I had to carry him back to our hotel!
RedEyeKnight
Posted: 2002-07-16 03:08:04
i didnt mean that full contact rules! the fight was fc rules thats all
Mr Smith
Posted: 2002-07-16 03:17:12
I remembr us all limping out of the venue - a sorry looking bunch with no idea where we were going!
We had a good laugh though!

I was in Holland with Lisa last year - she was supposed to fight Illonka Elmont on the undercard of Gilbert Ballentine's retirement fight. The weigh in was fine and the show started fine but half way through one of the French trainers said that he had gone to get his money from the promoter and been told that he had run out of money!

The next fighter on heard this and went to see the promoter who confirmed that he had no money left due to disappointing ticket sales. He said that everyone would be paid next day.

The other fighters all refused to fight and the whole show fell apart wiuth the fighters and the crowd walking out. Luckily he hotel was already paid and we had our tickets home, but the fight never happened.
Zebedee
Posted: 2002-07-16 05:49:30
One of our fighters, Chris Batcheldor was supposed to fight on a show in Epsom(it wasn't Mark Wakeling by the way, it was the OTHER club in Epsom!!)
We turned up at 11am for the weigh-in where we were told that Chris's opponent was not coming down, and that the promoter knew this a week before!! He knew full well that there waas no match, yet let us get there in the hope that we'd bring lots of supporters.
The show was meant to start at 1pm. At 2.45pm, with the hall full of spectators and about 3 fights matched, there was still NO RING!!!!!! The dozy prat had forgot to book it, but rather than start worrying at 11am when it should have been there, he starts sweating well after the show was due to start!
He managed to get hold of a ring, and the first fight went on at about 4pm!!..........Theres more :))

The hall did not have a very high ceiling! You had 5'8" fighters afraid to do any jumping techniques as they were likely to smack their head! It was a good job Chris didn't fight as he's about 6'4"

The guy was a complete joke and was only concerned in getting as much money as he could. He knows who he is!!

Doug
Posted: 2002-07-16 08:53:24
I have all sorts. The best always include my adventures in Mexico. One time, long ago when I was much, much lighter, I fought a guy that was given 6 oz. gloves and I had 8. We used to get scammed a bit also after the fights when the commission and the promoter would divide the money received from the gate or whatever and make the fighters wait outside the office for hours and hours. Another time, immediately after the bouts, the promoter was picked up by Mexican anit-drug-enforcement police and drug off to some prision. We were never paid. The best one was when the promoter actually skipped out after the bouts were over and completely disappeared, his name: Johnny Zarate. The commision was smart enough not to ask for the purse deposit this time and we all stood around looking like complete idiots. What made matters worse was that I was the matchmaker and all the Americans placed the blame on me. Come to think about it, the other week there were pro boxing fights in town and I had a guy fight. The promoter also made the fighters wait around for hours after the bouts and all sorts of shit went down such as mis-sized gloves, nobody checked handwraps, etc. And this is boxing, one of the so-called national sports of Mexico. I dont know if they are just corrupt or plainly negligent, but I am up to my ears in Mexican promotions and have actively decided to stay away completely.
Doug
Posted: 2002-07-18 12:54:36
Come on people, any more?
David Cummings
Posted: 2002-07-18 12:56:31
I heard johnny Zarate died is that true?
Doug
Posted: 2002-07-18 13:13:49
You are probably thinking of Angel Gutierrez who at one point managed Julio Cesar Chavez. He was a big money washing promoter and a fighter in the 80's. He fought all sorts of good fighters including Pete Cunningham. Yuki Horiuchi won his WKA world title in Tijuana on one of his promotions. Remember CA promoter Mr. Kim? In Mexico he was known as "Roberto Li", a Thai-Mexican. He fought all sorts of set-up fights against US opponents and was one of Angel's teachers.Gutierrez ended up getting machine-gunned in Cozumel by the Arrellano mafia guys. Johnny Zarate is actually alive and well in Mexico City. He burned so many guys in Tijuana, that he had to run south.
74516 : SEE photos FRANCE show too JWPs story

SANDY HOLT
Posted: 2002-07-20 22:52:45
i / we had a similar bad thing happen ( see above )feel for you JWP
ta sandy man holt
u.k.m.t.a
www.thaiboxing.co.uk
74571 : lollo i know that story

kahstallion
Posted: 2002-07-21 09:44:58
74572 : lollo i know that story

kahstallion
Posted: 2002-07-21 09:53:23
lollo may be too polite but con brousallis was the promoter an he was a piece of work.I think Ian jacobs stayed ina 5 star hotel an lollos boys an myself stayed in a 1 bedroom room in a motel that shoulda been inspected by the health a fire departments lol,there were 3 beds in 1 room from memory an cons doctor asked supercharge if he had " life insurance " cus he was facing ian jacobs ?? lol .I think ange " the angel " gousous" was the only aussie that lost
an supercharge an rebel lost to ian jaconbs an darren " the destroyer" hedgecock respectively.I only met con once when he drove us to the medical an weigh in toorak an he personified greasy promoter lol... i just wanna say that there isnt much money in promoting unless u have pay per view or do it on a big scale but why after meeting most promoters do u feel the need to shower 10 times in hot water to feel clean lol .
Lollo
Posted: 2002-07-21 10:22:54
Khastallion...If I wish to put name down, I would of. Some people here on ax already know who these promoters are, I just don't believe that people's name should be revialed. The guy had already punished by his own actions, so there's no need to put people's name for the world to see and punished him further. nyway, it's too late now Khastallion. I have a few more stories I was gonna tell, but you won't get to hear it...
THE BULLDOG
Posted: 2002-07-21 12:02:17
Mine don'y sound so bad but it seemed like it at the time.
This was my second fight. My first fight was against somebody much more experienced and I was stopped in the first round.
So after about 10 months, I climbed in again. I was reasonably fit but had been told the fight was at 60 kg. my weight was 67kg and I am 5ft 10".
So I killed myself to get to the weight and actually weighed in at 59kg.
Then on the day my opponant pulled out. My trainer (no names) said he had a replacement so I just accepted it.
When I got into the ring he was huge and had long trousers on (this was supposed to be MT). Just before we got in the ring he had come into my changing room ranting and raving about how he was going to kill me etc.
In the ring i am told this is a f/c fight. Now bearing in mind this is only my second fight and i am relying on my corner to sort this shit, it got a bit confusing.
In the end I had to settle for leg kick rules. The guy also turned out to be 9kg heavier, and undefeated in 12 with nine stoppages. Every time I tieeped him, I flew backwards and everytime he hit me I was all over the place.
However, I got the leg kick working and damaged him up a little.
In the end he won by one point (i thought he won a bit clearer than that to be honest).
This was not so much a promoters horror story as a lesson in how not to look after your fighter.
I was dying at the weight of 59kg, i gave away nine on the day, he was undefeated in 12, and I had to compromise on the rules.
It was a bit harsh on a novice coming back from a stoppage in his first fight.
That was in about 1988, and this shit still goes on now!!
Mark L.
Posted: 2002-07-21 13:15:51
Gonna start a thread along Bulldogs lines.
HH
Posted: 2002-07-21 13:49:57
Doug,

You must be talking about Kim Kongkriangkai, right? Can you give some more stories about him? Did he ever hold pads for Julio Cesar Chavez?
THE BULLDOG
Posted: 2002-07-22 02:50:56
HH - heres one thatI heard about that. JC Chavez never really did any pads throughout his whole career. Towards the end when his camp was changing a little, one of his new trainers took him on the pads and he could barely get it together. He was apparently used to bag work, conditioning and sparring and thats it.
If that is true that is amazing
HH
Posted: 2002-07-22 12:35:02
Thanks for the info. I heard that most boxers prior to the 1990's used pads sparingly. Do you have any idea when they first started using pads in boxing? 1940's?
Doug
Posted: 2002-07-22 12:48:53
In Mexico they don't use pads at all. It has always mystified me seing fighters sort of warm up before fights, but never seeing a pair of pads in the dressing room. They don't use the speed ball much at all and I have also heard that Chavez didn't like using it. Just as well, I really suck at it and the noise gives me a headache.
HH
Posted: 2002-07-22 19:58:23
Doug,

Was there ever any connection between J.C. Chavez and Kim?
ricardo mendez
Posted: 2002-07-22 20:08:43
MY WORST PROMOTER PICK OF THE WEEK...

AARON BANKS with his so called
"ORIENTAL WORLD OF SELF DEFENSE" shows..
Sponsor
Doug
Posted: 2018-12-27 02:43:09
No connection
Sponsor:
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