State liquor authority shut down the largest kickboxing show in NY, Lou Neglia's. ONce again, they used a law which was originally NOT supposed to apply to kickboxing but to UFC type shows to shut down a totally normal and not problem causing kickboxing show. Looks like Kickbxoing is doomed in NY state

Although this latest problem is a devastating setback to Lou Neglia, all the fighters, all the fans and all the people involved, it is not the end of our sports in NY. The NYS Athletic Commission is being called on to clarify the "combative sport" definition and the USKBA attorney is prepared to bring this matter to the next level. Unfortunately, at this time, details of future litigation in this matter cannot be discussed since the attorneys for the NYS Liquor Authority, the NYS Athletic Commission and the USKBA are handling this. We will keep everyone informed on all progress by posting articles on the USKBA Website at www.uskba.com.

Don't Give Up Hope!

I was also under the understanding that this law was made back when they wanted to outlaw NHB in NY and other places.
I hope that it is resolved soon so we can get back to having great shows in NY.
I know that the USKBA is working on making clear what the law is and hope that Lou can resceduele his show soon.
I had Chrissy Yandolli fighting against Kelly Hinton in A rematch fight that was already cancelled a number of times. I guess this fight has bad luck that surounds it.

Paul, if anyone can settle this issue I am sure it is you and the USKBA, but you know for us KB people this is really upsetting, even a bit frightening !!

I remember I was doing shows with shootfighting on them when they passed the law and I contacted the state Athletic commission, they expressly told me that "boxing, KICKBOXING and martial arts" were not covered by the "combat sports law"... wish I still had that letter (damn computer at home crashed)

The law the state liquor authority is using only says liquor can not be sold at "combat sport" events, with that definition referring back to the first law, so I guess it's a mess, athletic commission isn't shutting these shows down are they? It's the liquor authority...

I know you can't say much, but thanks for what you have said and we all wish you the best of luck

I believe we need to look at the following:

STATE OF NEW YORK _______________________________________________________________________ 2193--A 2001-2002 Regular Sessions IN SENATE February 5, 2001 Introduced by Sens. ALESI, MALTESE, McGEE, RATH, VOLKER -- read twice and ordered printed, and when printed to be committed to the Committee on Investigations, Taxation and Government Operations -- committee discharged, bill amended, ordered reprinted as amended and recommitted to said committee AN ACT to amend the alcoholic beverage control law, in relation to certain violations by retail licensees for on-premises consumption The People of the State of New York, represented in Senate and Assembly, do enact as follows:Section 1. Section 106 of the alcoholic beverage control law is amended by adding a new subdivision 6-c to read as follows: 6-c. (a) No retail licensee for on-premises consumption shall suffer, permit or promote an event on its premises wherein the contestants 5 deliver, or are not forbidden by the applicable rules thereof from delivering kicks, punches or blows of any kind to the body of an opponents or opponents, whether or not the event consists of a professional match or exhibition, and whether or not the event or any such act, or both, is done for compensation. (b) The prohibition contained in paragraph (a) of this subdivision,however, shall not be applied to any professional match or exhibition which consists of boxing, sparring, wrestling, or martial arts and which is excepted from the definition of the term "combative sport" contained in subdivision one of section five-a of chapter nine hundred twelve of the laws of nineteen hundred twenty, as added by chapter fourteen of the laws of nineteen hundred ninety-seven. (c) In addition to any other penalty provided by law, a violation of this subdivision shall constitute an adequate ground for instituting a proceeding to suspend, cancel or revoke the license of the violator in accordance with the applicable procedures specified in section one hundred nineteen of this article

NEW YORK STATE SENATE INTRODUCER'S MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT submitted in accordance with Senate Rule VI. Sec 1 BILL NUMBER: S2193A SPONSOR: ALESI
TITLE OF BILL: An act to amend the alcoholic beverage control law, in relation to certain violations by retail licensees for on-premises consumption PURPOSE: This bill prohibits an establishment holding a liquor license from promoting or permitting an event or exhibition where contestants are permitted to fight one another whether or not the contestant is compensated in any way. SUMMARY OF PROVISIONS: Section 1: amends the alcohol and beverage control law, adding a new subdivision 6-c a) to prohibit a bar or tavern from holding or promoting an event which would permit contestants to deliver kicks, punches or blows to the body of an opponent or opponents, whether or not the event consists of a professional match or exhibition, and whether or not the event is done for compensation. b) the prohibition in subdivision a) does not apply to any professional match or exhibition which consists of boxing, sparring, wrestling, or martial arts and which is excepted from the definition of "combative sport" contained in subdivision 1 of § 5-a of Chapter 912 of the Laws of 1920, as added by chapter fourteen of the laws of 1997 (unconsolidated laws § 8905-a). c) If a bar or tavern, does permit this type of event, the legislation requires that the establishment's license to sell alcoholic beverages be revoked or suspended. EXISTING LAW: none

Gentlemen,

We should not try to defend kb in NY by quoting the unjust law banning drinks at nhb events, That's like saying, "hey! we aren't nhb or mma, so leave us alone."

instead of standing with them, if we say, "I am not part of that group; so leave me alone." That is not a principled stand imho. (not criticizing anyone on this board)

If we do that , it sounds like what we are implying is "it would be perfectly ok to shut us down if we really WERE nhb or mma. That's bad strategy to desert other fighters rather than fight for them too.

Because once these morons feel morally or politically entitled to mess in their (mma nhb fighters) business, they will soon get the idea that they can then dictate that Kickboxers have to wear head gear,orthose funky lkitte foot covers, or you can only fight three rounds, or only after age 21, or no women can fight, or you have to have a million dollar health and life insurance policy, etc etc.
THey will eventually send some bureacrat to a kickbxing show to see if some "NHB" tactic is being used...then...well,you get the idea. the possibilties for meddling by the state are endless one we roll over on an issue that fundamental to personal choice and freedom..

Well, you get the idea. When you give these moralistic and religious busy bodies an inch, they will take a mile.

Boxing which is legal has many more deaths associated with it than MMA.

If they can oulaw mma/nhb without so much as a whimper from us, they can come after KB next. And trust me, some whacko moralistic idiot/legislator will surely introduce such a bill eventually. (probaby as a rider to an anti abortion, or anti gambling bill.)

Remembe also, They tried to ban Muay Thai in some Canadian province. I forget which one. So all fighters need to stick together. Not push somebody else overboard to save the ship.

Instead, of denying we are NHB/MMA, ask the idiots Where is the crime in NHB? or drinking at the fights? whose rights are being violated? or what right do they have creating victimless crimes?

Write a letter to those legislators,and/or the editor of the paper,and ask where's the victim? Let them know you vote..and have friends in their district that vote.

It's an outrageous invasion of personal freedom,when no one's
rights are violated by drinking at the fights-regardless of the particular fight rules.

Dan

My friend, there is a state law, since 1997 making MMA illegal in NY state, Whether you agree with that law or not, it's a law and one should not break it. If you disagree with it, form a movement, hire lawyers and go through legal means.

No one, under any circumstances, should break a law.

And with that being said, kickboxers have a perfect right to complain when a law that does not apply to them is applied to shut their events down. Our events are 100% LEGAL and the athletic commission has said so, so they have no right to shut us down. That should be the only issue, not a crusade to make MMA legal

"No one, under any circumstances, should break a law"

Even if's an unjust one ?

And yet people like Mike Tyson can still get a licence...

I would NOT be surprised if boxing people are behind this, but even more reason to highlight that KB events are LEGAL... no better way to root out corruption then catch those taking the bribes doing ILLEGAL acts

this sucks!

lkfmdc

lkfmdc writes:
My friend, there is a state law, since 1997 making MMA illegal in NY state,

======David, I understand that, and that is my point. If they can outlaw one form of fighting why be surprised when they decide to go after another? Even if they (in your opinion) are deliberately misapplying the statue.====

Whether you agree with that law or not, it's a law and one should not break it.


===David, there is nothing in my previous post that a reasonable person could possibly read as a suggestion that anyone break any law.====


If you disagree with it, form a movement, hire lawyers and go through legal means.


====Ditto. I would imagine that was done by the MMA promoters in NY, and found to be financially impossible seeing as taxpayers pay and furnish the NY AG with unlimited funds to defend these unreasonable statutes. Bear in mind that promoter probably doesn’t have the money it takes for a lengthy and protracted court battle with an attorney general who has the advantage of unlimited funds that a private individual does not have.
I don't live in NY, and have no legal standing. I am simply expressing my support for all martial artists to have the right to practice their sport without unnecessary state restrictions-let alone being totally banned====


No one, under any circumstances, should break a law.


===Who suggested otherwise??====


And with that being said, kickboxers


===unnecessarily said, seeing as how no one I know of has advocated breaking the law in the first place=======


Kickboxers have a perfect right to complain when a law that does not apply to them is applied to shut their events down.


==David, Nobody was denying your right to complain or say anything. I simply said I thought there was a more effective way to approach the problem of unnecessary state interference in a relatively benign sporting activity. I am sure you realize that if they (NY State) really want to prohibit drinking at any event, they can and will simply pass another statute to that effect-if they lose in court the issue of how the 1997 statute should be applied. Legislators often do that to nullify an unfavorable court ruling. And if they do, then you will find yourself back at square one. And in the same position as the people you seem to dismiss as “crusaders”.
Frankly, I don’t understand the anger, with someone who simply suggested another way to approach the problem.
On the other hand, if you raise the fundamental issue of what justifies their Legislating in such a harmless activity, other people who don’t really care about any kind of combat sport, but think government should show more restraint in restricting people’s freedom to enjoy activities which harm no one, may also give you some support. And that helps a lot if the legislators perceive it is not just a very small constituency that objects.=====



Our events are 100% LEGAL and the athletic commission has said so, so they have no right to shut us down.


===I agree. I don’t think they have any moral right to shut you down, and I am on your side. As to the legality, it will be up to the courts to have the final say. Not you or I.
If the enforcement side of the law, and the administrative side, (commission) are in I conflict; it will most likely have to be resolved by a judge-who will try to ascertain the intent of the legislature. Then, if he rules in your favor, the legislator could come back and draft a less ambiguous statute, which accomplishes their purpose. That’s why I suggested trying to appeal to the more fundamental question, of whether there is really in public need served by restricting any promoter’s right to serve beverages at their events-be it KB, MMA or whatever
Now if you disagree, fine. But I don’t think it is necessary (or fair) to label people with another viewpoint as “crusaders”. It s the meddling legislators who best fit that description.====





That should be the only issue, not a crusade to make MMA legal



==Well, forgive me, but I honestly don’t think “crusade” is a fair characterization of anyone who simply thinks legislation in something like this is appropriate. I guess we ought to agree to disagree, instead of being huffy with one another. Have the last word,

Dan====

If you think I am a person opposed to MMA, you are mistaken, we train it at our gym and we have athletes doing it. But not in NY as it is illegal and we don't endorse breaking the law even if we think that there should not be a legal prohibition against a well regulated sport.

But then again, MMA in NY has only reaped the seeds it sowed. The 1997 legislation exits because of "extreme fighting"'s press campaign to "one up" the UFC for bloodiness and violence. They advertised their event as "no rules" and as some sort of gladiatorial combat, and so when discussion of legislation began, their OWN adds were the most daming evidence against them. Now, the legislation may be misguided, hell READ the act and it's written by people who probably think Ninjas can kill 100 police offers with throwing stars of death (obscure Sho Kosugi referance, granted)... But that's the problem now, they made such a fuss that they passed the ORIGINAL legislation which now set up the body of legal work for the legislation the state liquor authority is now using

As for them stepping in to take over or ban "martial arts" and kickboxing, well, it is extremely unlikely because the athletic commission has no historical authority over these competitions and has a LONG history of stating they have no interest. So first they would have to pass major legislation to put martial arts under their authority.

You do realize that MMA legislation was slipped in under 1900's "prize fighting" legislation's history... which would not be so easily if at all applied to martial arts.

Thus, maybe to your displeasure, again the issue is that the state liquor authority is misapplying a law to illegally shut down 100% LEGAL events and that is the issue PERIOD

Yesterday, the New York State Athletic Commission responed to direct questions by stating;

"the New York State Athletic Commission does not regulate and has no authority over martial arts competion in New York State.

Kickboxing is considered a martial art and the Commission does not
have any control over these type of competion."

Thus, the state liquor authority has mis-applied the law....