here are some pics of samoan beast training

Seido
I think that's called Hand-Shaking, lol

Those look like traditional Maori tattoos on his face .

Dixon McIvor pointed out that "Toa (Samoan Beast) is a Maori" on another thread.

He looks like Paul Kingi

don't get Samoans and Maori's confused, they hate that, lol..besides, he looks too small to be Samoan :P

Yeah hes Paul Kingi a New Zealand maori. He definitely is not small-a fricken man mountain, hes huge. I heard he was being trained by Selwyn Jones, the former trainer of Hape Ngaronoa-current trainer of Mark Hunt. I agree with Vince, we definitely dont like being confused with Samoans or anyone else for that matter,lol.

I've heard that Selwyn Jones is the man.
Some people have compared Paul Kingi to Bob Sapp but
the picture of him standing next to Kakuda doesn't seem like he
has the hieght of Bob. Anyone got some stats on him?

Paul is about 6 ft 4 not much taller than me - he is very powerful and does have some boxing and wrestling experience.

Lou Jones a 5 ft 10 boxer stopped him in NZ about 4 years ago - but only after Pual dropped him 3 times in the first round and two other 8 counts wer called pushes.

Then PUal goyt tird and his arms were too big to block round house punches - Lou, who can only throw a left hook landed 23 in a row before Paul went dwon more from exhaustion than anything else.

He is very dangerous powerwise but not sure how he will take punshment to the body. Having been a Sumo Wrestler, a Pro Wreslter and an Ameteur boxer in addition to his Strongest man titles he isn't a complete novice - but on the other hand is isn't hearly as big as Bob. LAst Time I chatted to him he was 140 Kgs (no fat - about 10%) body fat.

Paul could do OK - but will depend on how much he likes being whacked

I definitely wouldn't want to be accused of begrudging any kiwi a shot at the big time, but can anyone explain to me how it works in the K-1 when fighters like Paul Kingi and Kerry Karena get to fight in Japan while our top heavyweights have to go through the qualifiers. I know that Paul and Kerry wont be eligible for the World Grand Prix (unless they got chucked in as a wild card on one of the other qualifiers and won) but it seems strange that they get to fight on such a big event when there are more established and accomplished fighters in NZ to choose from. I totally am not dissing either of them. I think its great that they have got the opportunity and have heared that Kerry showed a lot of heart when he fought in Japan and am sure that Paul will do the country proud also (with a trainer like Selwyn Jones he's sure to be well prepared!). I'm just wondering how it works! Can anyone enlighten me? (Dixon perhaps?)

The Highlander:

LOL!!

He looks like a beast, but the way he is fighting looks like shit! Not 1% better than Bob Sapp - but ok... He is also called "The Beast".

All that muscle could be a handicapp for the big man. I just hope he can put up a great fight. Danny, youre right-Selwyn Jones is the man-a trainer of the highest quality, and anyone who knows him will agree with me. I had the honour of training with him when I was 15, he came to my college(church college), only for a short time though. Originally from a Kyokushin background, he branched off into kickboxing and Shidokan Karate. A very humble man, with enormous skill and knowledge, if anyone can get a fighter ready he can.

Pauls Arm size will be a prblem if they are as big as they were for Lou Jones

His Biceps didn't allow him to form a wall to block winging punches - there was a huge hole for hooks basically - and then they got fatigued - I'm all for Paul but hopefully he will have dropped off some of the bulk.

PS Oliver - form wise he is 100% better than Bob ever was but - then he is not as biog nor was Bob's skill much to write home about!

Pauls intro into K-1 is by way of the marketing exercise that they have created for Bob Sapp. It is unfortunate that our other top heavyweights have to do the harder yards. K-1 have been looking for beasts all around the world as the ratings have increased since the intro of Bob Sapp.

i know highlander very funny here is the rest

i agree with dixon. don't let kingi's quick rise to stardom make you think the k-1 is unfair. he is a gimmick and will be used as one until he proves himself. unlike the k-1 oceania hopefuls, he'll be chucked into the fire and if he disappoints, he's out. guys like ron sefo and peter graham will still have the k-1 oceania as a place to restart after losing.

if you want to envy anyone, envy suttie.

good call felix

Im all for People representing New Zealand and our maori heritage, I personally wish Paul all the best. A big kia ora to Dixon for organising this, big ups there brother. I hope that Paul can represent us kiwis and maoris well.

From my experience, what happens to fake martial artists is this: sooner or later they fall.

Look at Ishii, he's fallen in a big way. Need I say more.

Kia Ora Toa there are a few people behind this venture, it is sometimes all about the timing but thanks anyway. Paul gets back from Japan tommorrow along with Selwyn (Herewini) Jones. Pauls first opponent is a Japanese wrestler. Couldn't ask for a better start.

Dixon,

Can you explain to me how Paul Kingi and Mark Hunt can enter Japan?

I know that both men have served jail time for serious assaults. I know of someone who, upon declaring on the arrival form when entering Japan that he had a conviction (for something that didn't require jail time) he was refused entry and put on a plane back to Auckland.

Are these men declaring their criminal records when entering Japan???

Perhaps the Japanese authorities don't know that both men have served jail time for serious assaults, or are there figures behind the scenes assisting them?

Traditionalist

Traditionalist
You know more than I do when it comes to criminal records. There is no hiding that Mark Hunt had a record as he stated his time on the 60 minutes Doco maybe enough time has lapsed to let it go. As you know Mark just fought in Vegas and the US is the worstplace to enter no matter who is pulling the strings. As to Pauls case i don't no of any convictions and you must also remember that there profiles are too big to hide in Japan look at Mr Iishi? I can only imagine that if they were not allowed in they would'nt be attending Japan.

Traditionalist: There are visa that can be arranged for such travels - also I would check your sources regarding the alledged assualts. Finally what relevence is that to this thread - its more of a stirring observation in my mind. I'm all for repsonsibility and consequences for actions but also all for People taking advantage of the opportunities that come their way as a form of bettering themselves.And finally getting all my facts right before commenting.

Well, at least Hunt was not convicted for rape as Tyson was (and Tyson, apart some defeats is still in the game) Would US people feel as a nice behavior if one of the EU countries would forbid him to box in the EU on the ground of his history of rape ?
I think that ring is not a place to settle punishments, this would take off ring's capacity of being a way to make gentlemen out of criminals. It is so nice to praise the capacity of traditional martial arts to change human conscience when all what traditional martial arts gather in gyms are guys who are not bad boys from the beggining.

Traditionalist,

What would you rather see. 2 men training hard and achieving at the highest level in an international sport or 2 men sitting on the dole because of the fact that all life's doors are forever closed to them because of mistakes in their past? Isn't the very fact that martial arts can teach discipline and change lives the reason that we encourage troubled youngsters to train? I know plenty of people with records in both the MT/Kickboxing scene and the traditional martial arts and all of them credit their training as a significant factor in their decision to change their lives. Why do Dixon and Ray want to run youth programmes out of their new gym? Because they know that training can help young people learn discipline, set goals, and have a sense of achievement in their lives.

I think that you are questioning Mark and Paul's integrity by suggesting that they didn't disclose their history (I'm not sure if that makes you very brave or very stupid! Have you seen the size of them!LOL)If you don't know for a fact that they DIDN'T disclose then I don't think you should raise the issue at all. This sort of thing just seems like one more example of NZs chronic tall poppy syndrome!

i think traditionalist has a pretty valid question.

why does hunt get in the country while others get booted out?

shouldn't they all get in or all get booted out?

Firstly, Hunt has served time in jail (for beating someone up for their pair of shoes - everyone knows this). Kingi has also served time in jail - this too is a fact.

If there is such a special visa for persons with convictions, then this was not offered to an associate of mine who was put back on the plane for a minor conviction (disorderly behaviour). I will mention this to him (a special visa).

I'm not saying that Kingi and Hunt are BAD BAD BAD as I know people who have done worse. All I'm saying is one rule for everyone.

Entering Japan and USA can be done if you tick 'NO' where it says 'do you have any criminal convictions'.

Credit to Dixon and Sefo for starting youth programmes.

Traditionalist

We are all aware of those past issues but - one of which was screened on prime time TV in NZ. But you are stating these issues in isloation with out a body of context both then and more importantly subsequent to those incidents, and basically doing so with a view to raising and issue which clearly gets up you nose but has very little relevence to this thread ( sorry Felix I have to disagree)

If it really bothers you that much n start an Off topic thread and Inlcude the likes of Frank Lobman - the bazooka Incident, Aerts Drug issues, Bob Jones Street Thug, Tyson Rape, Berbick Rape also from memeory, Any number of US boxer drugs and violent offences Bernard Hopkins all of the above wat bcak when, JC Chavez Wife Beating and Violent assualts, the list quite frankly is numerous - in both the marital arts community and the boxing community there are a number of people with past which aren't exactly stellar. What is the point - how valid and positive is it? Not really at all at all.

Rather I think it stems from annoyance at a similar lattiude not being granted to someone you know. The one rule for all/consistnancy is an ethical argument which all though valid is best argued by polticians and beaurocrats who as we all know have an ability to slide legislation in and out to best advantage anyway.

But in a nut shell you need to do your home work prior to travelling overseas - and find out what restrictions there are and what needs to be done to exempt yourself/ your team from them.

Of course having well monied interests able to provide the best legal advice obviously helps also - and they do this basically because their is a vested interest (financial gain) in said fighters paticipating in particular events. Hypociritcal and double standards maybe - but I don't begrudge the opportunity it provide either (by and large with a couple of obvious exceptions)

I still fail to see how this is relevent - why not pose a more positive question "What capacity does martial arts and similar sports have to turn the lives around of people who have / are going to fall of the rails as opposed to boxing or as opposed to Basketball or other sports"

If I sound defensive I am - I dont; look at the workd through rose colured glasses however I also don't see the need to highlight such a negative issue without the context

We are all aware of those past issues but - one of which was screened on prime time TV in NZ. But you are stating these issues in isloation with out a body of context both then and more importantly subsequent to those incidents, and basically doing so with a view to raising and issue which clearly gets up you nose but has very little relevence to this thread ( sorry Felix I have to disagree)

If it really bothers you that much n start an Off topic thread and Inlcude the likes of Frank Lobman - the bazooka Incident, Aerts Drug issues, Bob Jones Street Thug, Tyson Rape, Berbick Rape also from memeory, Any number of US boxer drugs and violent offences Bernard Hopkins all of the above wat bcak when, JC Chavez Wife Beating and Violent assualts, the list quite frankly is numerous - in both the marital arts community and the boxing community there are a number of people with past which aren't exactly stellar. What is the point - how valid and positive is it? Not really at all at all.

Rather I think it stems from annoyance at a similar lattiude not being granted to someone you know. The one rule for all/consistnancy is an ethical argument which all though valid is best argued by polticians and beaurocrats who as we all know have an ability to slide legislation in and out to best advantage anyway.

But in a nut shell you need to do your home work prior to travelling overseas - and find out what restrictions there are and what needs to be done to exempt yourself/ your team from them.

Of course having well monied interests able to provide the best legal advice obviously helps also - and they do this basically because their is a vested interest (financial gain) in said fighters paticipating in particular events. Hypociritcal and double standards maybe - but I don't begrudge the opportunity it provide either (by and large with a couple of obvious exceptions)

I still fail to see how this is relevent - why not pose a more positive question "What capacity does martial arts and similar sports have to turn the lives around of people who have / are going to fall of the rails as opposed to boxing or as opposed to Basketball or other sports"

If I sound defensive I am - I dont. look at the world through rose coloured glasses however I also don't see the need to highlight such a negative issue without the context of a more postosive framework. In your glass half empty?

gee Mike it was hard enough reading it the first time yet alone twice.

mike,

do you have a criminal record or something? you are acting way to sensitive about this.

this thread is about the samoan beast, a maori named paul kingi. anything about him is fair game on this thread. some say he doesn't deserve a k-1 fight because he is unproven. i disagree. business is business. trad was curious about the immigration policy that would allow him to enter the country in the first place. no one said he didn't deserve to go because he is an ex-con. it was more a question of how can one's ex-con friends do the same thing.

seriously though, if paul or even mark didn't want me to talk about their crimes, they wouldn't have committed them in the first place. everyone knows i'm a blabbermouth.

Felix, Sorry I have to disagree - the tone of the post was far from observational rather boardering on accusational:

"Can you explain to me how Paul Kingi and Mark Hunt can enter Japan? I know that both men have served jail time for serious assaults. I know of someone who, upon declaring on the arrival form when entering Japan that he had a conviction (for something that didn't require jail time) he was refused entry and put on a plane back to Auckland.Are these men declaring their criminal records when entering Japan??? Perhaps the Japanese authorities don't know that both men have served jail time for serious assaults, or are there figures behind the scenes assisting them?"

Essentially it is implying different rules for these "serious thugs" when trad's much less thug like friend couldn't get into Japan under similar circumstances.

Yes I am defensive - because it wasn't constructive - and I will laways defend these guys when I think it is warrented. I'll also be the first to say that both Paul and Mark have done a couple of bloody stupid things in the past but what does that have to with Paul Kingi going to K-1 Now? SFA! Neither have continued this pattern of behaviour it is not recent or even medium term so again revelence and context ?

But As always everyone isd entitled to their opinion I just would rather see something more proactively positive

Mike,

You can defend Hunt and Kingi all you like. The point I was making was: they have criminal records (for serious offences) and freely enter Japan. An associate of mine has a criminal record for disorderly behaviour (a minor offence) and was put back on a plane to Auckland after landing in Narita, simply because he was honest and ticked 'yes' regarding criminal convictions.

That's all there was to it.

We all make choices in our lives, some of us choose to stay on the straight, others don't.

If Kingi and Hunt have people behind the scenes (lawyers, advisors etc.) that have assisted them to gain entry into Japan, then good for them.

It still doesn't seem fair to me. Probably wouldn't seem fair to the average Joe neither.

Dixon, I'm guessing you would have accompanied Mark Hunt to Japan, what did he tick in the box? Did he have a special visa?

Traditionalist

you mean an ex-con athlete visa? i doubt it. there might be some paperwork that has to be done before arriving at the airport though. your friend should have checked at the embassy first. also in japan there is a case by case way each beauraucrat handles these things. my guess is they asked him a few questions to determine if he was bad news and he flunked them.

Traditionalist..I'm sorry to hear about your friend, but Felix is right.

There are two main reasons why your friend may have got sent back:

1) If your friend had a criminal record, he would need to apply for a traveling visa within 12 months after serving the sentence. This can be done at the Japanese consulate. They would ask formality questions why you are going to Japan etc..They also need a letter (of proof) from your Japanese contact to ensure they will look after you while you are there etc.. If your friend failed to present this visa at arrival, they most certanly send him back.

2) Ticking yes while filling the arrival card than give wrong answer to the questions when got there. I don't know what happened to your friend exactly, but if he had something to drink on the plane and got intoxicated on the way there, he could have easily flunked like Felix said. Like I said, I don't know and your friend may not have had something to drink. (Just guessing)

If that system was not available, it will be very hard to do business travel and such to Japan. There are thousands of business people and people from other sports out there with criminal records who travel to Japan and other countries.

Like I said it's may appear unfair to your friend, but it also unfair to use Mark Hunt and Paul Kingi. They utilise the system just normal people who travel to Japan with past criminal record.

Beside, it's stupid not to no if you have a criminal record anyway. After Sept 11, they get more nervous and will go the extra mile to dig deep into your record. One of my guys tried that trick (not ticking yes) even before the Sept 11 and got sent back. This was just to Australia. I asked him prior to the travel and he assured me everything is fine...Well, he got send back from Sydney and learned from the experience.

meant to say..."tick no if you have a criminal record"

Traditionalist, Have you ever been in a que to get in to a club or a show or a particualr venue. Then one of the a) doorman b)Event Organisers c) VIPs recognised you and invited you to skip the Que. Did you accept if so you are being hippocritical. And for sure you will counter that standing in a que is hardly comparable to a serious crime - but it is exactly the same principal - taking advantage of someone know know to get preferential treatment. Maybe it is not fair but quite simply put your friend didn't do his home work. And although I'm sure he is a good bloke and an honest one - had he done so he would have stayed in Japan.

Also the so called "serious crime" - Forget Mark that is well established, with out going into too much detail, I was in Palmerston at the time and know Paul fairly well. The incident in question was a case of several gang affilliates attacking the big muscley guy - another guy, who just happened to being related to the local Police Seargent, ran into the fray got knocked out and the charges stemmed from that. As I said check your facts and context before raising dirty linen. Paul didn't then and does not now go out looking for trouble - your choice of example to illustrate your point is not appropriate nor is the way it was delivered.

Finally start another thread - perhaps even asking how to circumnaviagate the visa entry issues. If you don't think that is appropriate then why have it in this one.? At least if you start your own thread you draw valid answers from interested parties rather than Hijacking (which admittedly I have done becasue of the bee in my bonnet more than anyone - sorry guys) this thread.

I have now finished my tirade and lecturing - and will go and medidtate on the wrong doings of the all martial artists in the world and try and achieve enlightenment and zen through unsdertanding.

LOL Mike, having already achieved enlightenment I will not comment about all that legal/visa stuff.
I was wondering if Selwyn Jones used to train in Opotiki? I stayed there with whanau for a while and I think his name was mentioned by some of the guys I was training.

What an interesting thread... I cant wait to commentate a Kingi fight! I'm thinking of new one-liners already (always dangerous) :P

Good luck to him!

Enlightment is ok. Just don't use video assistant or Highlander will come down on you big time...Ooops, I better choose my words carefully...LOL!

Firstly:

To Mike -

You said:
"The incident in question was a case of several gang affilliates attacking the big muscley guy - another guy, who just happened to being related to the local Police Seargent, ran into the fray got knocked out and the charges stemmed from that. As I said check your facts and context before raising dirty linen. "

My reply: every heard of 'he said / she said'? The fact is, Mr. Kingi was found guilty in a court of law - regardless of whether or not the guy 'happened to being related to the local Police Seargent'. We do not have access to the police job sheets, evidence, court records etc. so we cannot make judgement (that has already been done in court). All we know is that he was found guilty and served jail time. Lets end it at that.

To Lollo -

Thanks for the useful information, I will forward this to my associate.

yours truly

Traditionalist

First- I have giving up ripping into the likes of K-1. This match is more sports entertaiment than K-1 kickboxing. The wrestler's backgroud is he competeted in the Olympics in pro wrestling. If you are wanting to see kickboxing, don't look at this match for it. It is what it is. In fact, I am not sure what kind of fight you will see giving the two involved. I pray, and surely not giving K-1 running shows in Vegas and the history of K-1, that the work isn't in on this one. I doubt it. But Pride has done it.

As I said, I have giving-up ripping into K-1. In this day and age with the state pro wrestling and martial arts fighting is in, whatever works to sell tickets. Do what you got to do. And who knows- maybe the fight will be a totally dud- but maybe it will at the least entertaining to watch. We'll see.

Every fighter entering Japan for K-1 is supposed to apply for a working visa prior to arrival like Felix stated.

Traditionalist - I think we will have to agree to disagree - clearly your perception is like that of a traffic warden - it's either right or wrong with no ability to disgiguish any grey areas. You choose to bring up the issue in a negative context which I object to. But your just the facts (as recorded in the text book)maam appraoch - means essentially your not open to considering that your opinion and approach is bordering on offensive and certainly condescending. Which in my opinion it is.

Quite frankly the courts of law are an imperfect system themselves - and they can only function on the quality of evidence and information they are provided with - he said / she saw / I transcribed , and it is the police who essentially (and neccessarily) gather and control that information - and that is a far from perfect system subject to bias's.

Go write some parking tickets for the pregnant lady parked outside the hospital.

PS - I am also aware that my own views on this are pretty strong and others might consdering my approach some what arrogant and one eyed but at the end of the day I want to see the sport florish and would prefer a more postive focus on the sport.

Mike -

"I think we will have to agree to disagree"

Yes.

"I want to see the sport florish and would prefer a more postive focus on the sport".

Yes.

Traditionalist

Touche