Old-school Japanese Kickboxing

From 1966 to the early 1980's, the Japanese were constantly experimenting and improving their rendition of stand-up striking known as Kickboxing. During that time, the Japanese suffered losses against Nak Muays, but learned from their encounters in order to become serious opposition against Thailand. Toshio Fujiwara has been one of the most prolific fighters to be internationally recognized by Muay Thai/Kickboxing fans, and he was the first farang champion of a stadium title to boot. Mitsuo Shima was another notable kickboxer that fought and won over many Nak Muays before his shin broke.
However, what about the other lesser known fighters?
Yasuo Tabata I recall challenged and lost to Fred Royers for the WKA middleweight title. Genshu Igari was a busy fighter, and he was able to KO several Thai champions. Kunimatsu Okao retired undefeated in the super-lightweight class, but loss in a comeback against Benny Urquidez.
Can anyone fill in about other Japanese fighters during this period?
Another thing, in the interim period from the early 1980's (at the time when Kickboxing was in a scandal for being involved with the yakuza) and 1993 (when K-1 appeared), how was the Japanese Kickboxing scene at that time? I've seen some Japanese fighters wear full-contact pants (something that surprised me) and it seemed that they sometimes banned the use of the elbow while other times I've noticed they use hip throws in their bouts. Were there any significant Japanese fighters that went overseas to Thailand, the Netherlands, etc. to compete?

Old-school Japanese Kickboxing

From 1966 to the early 1980's, the Japanese were constantly experimenting and improving their rendition of stand-up striking known as Kickboxing. During that time, the Japanese suffered losses against Nak Muays, but learned from their encounters in order to become serious opposition against Thailand. Toshio Fujiwara has been one of the most prolific fighters to be internationally recognized by Muay Thai/Kickboxing fans, and he was the first farang champion of a stadium title to boot. Mitsuo Shima was another notable kickboxer that fought and won over many Nak Muays before his shin broke.
However, what about the other lesser known fighters?
Yasuo Tabata I recall challenged and lost to Fred Royers for the WKA middleweight title. Genshu Igari was a busy fighter, and he was able to KO several Thai champions. Kunimatsu Okao retired undefeated in the super-lightweight class, but loss in a comeback against Benny Urquidez.
Can anyone fill in about other Japanese fighters during this period?
Another thing, in the interim period from the early 1980's (at the time when Kickboxing was in a scandal for being involved with the yakuza) and 1993 (when K-1 appeared), how was the Japanese Kickboxing scene at that time? I've seen some Japanese fighters wear full-contact pants (something that surprised me) and it seemed that they sometimes banned the use of the elbow while other times I've noticed they use hip throws in their bouts. Were there any significant Japanese fighters that went overseas to Thailand, the Netherlands, etc. to compete?

Toshio fujiwara v.s Benny urquidez should of happened.

That is true. It's a shame that fight never happened. Fujiwara would've definitely been a stiffer test than Okao and Suzuki. I know that after Tadashi Sawamura retired, Kickboxing was beginning to lose popularity and they decided to allow some matches against American full-contact stylists. Every American except for Benny Urquidez was defeated. This was especially in the case of All Japan Kickboxing against All America Martial Arts. It is interesting that Urquidez was able to beat Suzuki and Okao with above-the-waist techniques, but I didn't like the fact that both fights prohibited elbows and knees to the head. I'm not saying that Benny would have lost, but knees to the head and elbowing can really settle things. In the book, The Masters Speak by Jose Fraquas (available here http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0865681953/sr=1-1/qid=1155848541/ref=sr_1_1/104-0962518-4571133?ie=UTF8&s=books), Urquidez states that he met with Masutatsu Oyama and trained under him for a while. As we know, Kyokushinkai definitely has low kicks, so I imagine Benny was able to pick up some useful leg checking methods.

Kickboxing in Japan had died down quite a bit by the late 80's and didn't start moving again until 1993 as you stated. One of Urquidez' last fights was against a Japanese fighter in 1989 and the same guy fought and lost to Pete Cunningham in 1991 or so. I remember a fighter in the ratings in the 80's by the name of "Iron Fujimoto". I never saw him fight, but his name alone installs fear. It seems to have been reborn with Master Ishi promoting K-1 fighters from his full-contact karate organization and then blossumed from there.

The Japanese fighter who fought Cunningham & Urquidez was most likely Nobuya Asuka.

To Benares,

Yasuo Tabata was known for his superb ability to take punishment due to his intense physical training. His ace-in-the-hole were leg kicks and elbows. He was rated No.1 in middleweight in the Radjamnern rating. He defeated both Steve Sheperd and Blinky Rodriguez. His fight against Fred Royers was his last fight. Genshu Igari was another great the golden era of Japanese kickboxing. In his career, he defeated three champions from Thailand (I forgot the spelling of their names, but one of them unified both the Lumpinee and Radjamnern titles). One of his asset was his straight right. He studied the style of martial arts called nippon kenpo, which was full-contact/point fighting competition with armor. The style is known for the straight punches, and some of the accomplished boxers and kickboxers came from this style. Igari combined muay thai and the straight right of nippon kenpo to score numerous KOs. Igar beat Tabata twice and these fights are considered to be some of the classic in the golden era of Japanese kickboxing. Igari KOed Ray McCallum. Both Igari and Tabata later served as judge and referee for K-1.

Mitsuo Shima was a senior of Toshio Fujiwara in the Mejiro Gym. He was the first to defeat the champion of Thailand (I don't remember which stadium). Neither Lumpinee or Radjamnern title was at stake. There was a time the officials in Thailand considered to establish something like, "world muay thai federation." Shima was given a chance to fight the champion of either Lumpinee or Radjamnern for the new crown. He ended up winning the title by ko. He was a typical Japanese muay thai fighter;long-range punches and leg kicks. He scored many kos with those techniques.

Kunimitsu Okao was not undefeated. He was the first fighter of the Mejiro Gym. In those days ( as in today) being a top in Japan meant that he could be matched against the Thais. It is impossible to remain undefeated. He was not the teacher of Katsuyuki Suzuki either. He was supposed to be the first to fight Urquidez. But he suffered some injury in his hip, so he withdrew. Instead, Suzuki was appointed to fight Urquidez as the last minute substitute despite the fact he had just returned from Hiroshima (he was not a full-time fighter). After Suzuki was defeated, Okao finally faced Urquidez. It is true the knees and elbows to the head were prohibited. But in my opinion, it was Okao's fault to get beat. He was so cocky to use less and less leg kicks and clearly see he thought he could get away with his punches alone. Eventually he ran out of gas and got KOed.

In overall, the Japanese fighters excell in the leg kicks and long range punches. This is because the highest aim both the fighters and fans have is to win the title in Thailand (either Lumpninee or Radjamnern). Since they fight the same weight classes as the Thais, the Japanese had to focus on something the Thais do not. You can expect the majority of the Japanese fighters to fit into this mode. Fujiwara was exception. In addition to the leg kicks and long-range punches, he was versatile in the body kicks, head kicks, knees, elbows, and clinch.

Pro-wrestling was the dominant fight sport that was watched in the 1980's. Can't really complain because Satoru Sayama (AKA Tiger Mask) was forming Shooto in the mid-1980's. BTW, Sayama was trained in Muay Thai by Fujiwara. I also know that Caesar Takeshi's Shootboxing I know began in 1985, but not much else I've heard. Iron Fujimoto got beat by Urquidez. And yeah, Asuka was defeated by Urquidez and Cunningham.

Ah, thanks Shingo. I've read some info from Black Belt regarding Okao's bout against Urquidez and I believe it said that Okao was undefeated. My mistake. That's true about Okao being too sure of himself. I remember after knocking down Urquidez in the 2nd round, he had this smirk on his face as he wiped some sweat off his brow. He definitely had a chance in the 2nd and 3rd rounds if he hadn't screwed around.
Do you know if Shima has a gym, and if has any fighters? I know he went into boxing as well as Muay Thai/Kickboxing, and it's a shame that he's not as well known as he should be. Rob Kaman stated that Shima was one of the fighters that he had looked up to when he began in Plas's Mejiro Gym. Whatever happened to the rest of the 1960's and 1970's fighters? I know Yoshimitsu Tamashiro owns a gym and restaurant called Wongwenyai. Noboru Osawa has a restaurant, too. Kunimasu Nagae is Kozo Takeda's coach. I've seen Sawamura attending some AJKF events. But what about the others?

Ah, thanks Shingo. I've read some info from Black Belt regarding Okao's bout against Urquidez and I believe it said that Okao was undefeated. My mistake. That's true about Okao being too sure of himself. I remember after knocking down Urquidez in the 2nd round, he had this smirk on his face as he wiped some sweat off his brow. He definitely had a chance in the 2nd and 3rd rounds if he hadn't screwed around.
Do you know if Shima has a gym, and if has any fighters? I know he went into boxing as well as Muay Thai/Kickboxing, and it's a shame that he's not as well known as he should be. Rob Kaman stated that Shima was one of the fighters that he had looked up to when he began in Plas's Mejiro Gym. Whatever happened to the rest of the 1960's and 1970's fighters? I know Yoshimitsu Tamashiro owns a gym and restaurant called Wongwenyai. Noboru Osawa has a restaurant, too. Kunimasu Nagae is Kozo Takeda's coach. I've seen Sawamura attending some AJKF events. But what about the others?

In the beginning of the 80's, the yakuza scandal swept Japan and this led to the decline of the sport. The only sanctioning body somehow survived was the All-Japan Kickboxing Federation. The AJKF had agreed to promote the World Karate Association International rule bouts. This was the time some of the remaining legends fought in the long pants and footpads. Igari, Tabata, Nagae were among those. This was the time Don Wilson ( or Don Hoshino Wilson, as we call) fought James Warring and Maurice Smith. It was interesting to see the young Maurice solely relied on his taekwondo background. If my memory is correct, the Wilson/Smith fight was the last prime-time televised fight until K-1. The WKA Japan lasted only a couple of years. It soon became the Martial Arts Japan Kickboxing Federation. In the end of 1987, however, some members of the MAJKF started the 2 phase of the All-Japan Kickboxing Federation. By that time, the Japanese fighters were nothing like the golden era counterparts. They lacked experience, thus they lacked skills to face not only the Thais, but the Europeans as well. In those days, the favorites among the fans were Rob Kaman, Ronnie Green, Tom Von De Berg, Maurice Smith, and many Thai fighters.

Even though Kaman and Smith were popular, many of their fights were one-sided. This was not their fault, but the promoters'. Japanese sanctioning bodies funcion just like the PKA in the US. They like the exclusive contract. Since the AJKF was so loyal to the WKA, they did not consider bringing fighters from other sancionning bodies such as WMTA, ISKA, or KICK. Thus, Kaman ended up fighting Gabe Carmichael, Santiago Garza, and Smith fought Kevin Rosier. The fans wanted to see either Kaman or Smith face Branco Cikatic. This could have been an intesting match-up since kaman said he could claim he is the best if he could defeat Don Wilson, Cikatic, and Dieselnoi Chor Thanasukarn. It was quite dissapointing none of these figters fought Kaman.

One of the reasons K-1 attracted many hard-core fans (at least in the beginning) was that Ishii did not care about differences in sanctioning bodies. As a matter of fact, many gave Ishii credit for his bringing many fighters the fans wanted to see for a long time. Among those were Cikatic, Ernesto Hoost, Peter Aerts, Ivan Ivan Hippolyte, etc.

I agree, that's one of the reasons why I got hooked to K-1 in its early years since it allowed fighters from different promotions and organizations to compete against each other. No politics, just fighting. Now if they just promoted their other weight classes besides heavyweight and middleweight...
The reason why I brought up the point about Japanese wearing full-contact pants was because I saw some fights of Dieselnoi against Japanese fighters. I was wondering why they were wearing those pants because I knew that Japan adopted Muay Thai and its rules.

In the beginning of the 80's, the yakuza scandal swept Japan and this led to the decline of the sport. The only sanctioning body somehow survived was the All-Japan Kickboxing Federation. The AJKF had agreed to promote the World Karate Association International rule bouts. This was the time some of the remaining legends fought in the long pants and footpads. Igari, Tabata, Nagae were among those. This was the time Don Wilson ( or Don Hoshino Wilson, as we call) fought James Warring and Maurice Smith. It was interesting to see the young Maurice solely relied on his taekwondo background. If my memory is correct, the Wilson/Smith fight was the last prime-time televised fight until K-1. The WKA Japan lasted only a couple of years. It soon became the Martial Arts Japan Kickboxing Federation. In the end of 1987, however, some members of the MAJKF started the 2 phase of the All-Japan Kickboxing Federation. By that time, the Japanese fighters were nothing like the golden era counterparts. They lacked experience, thus they lacked skills to face not only the Thais, but the Europeans as well. In those days, the favorites among the fans were Rob Kaman, Ronnie Green, Tom Von De Berg, Maurice Smith, and many Thai fighters.

Even though Kaman and Smith were popular, many of their fights were one-sided. This was not their fault, but the promoters'. Japanese sanctioning bodies funcion just like the PKA in the US. They like the exclusive contract. Since the AJKF was so loyal to the WKA, they did not consider bringing fighters from other sancionning bodies such as WMTA, ISKA, or KICK. Thus, Kaman ended up fighting Gabe Carmichael, Santiago Garza, and Smith fought Kevin Rosier. The fans wanted to see either Kaman or Smith face Branco Cikatic. This could have been an intesting match-up since kaman said he could claim he is the best if he could defeat Don Wilson, Cikatic, and Dieselnoi Chor Thanasukarn. It was quite dissapointing none of these figters fought Kaman.

One of the reasons K-1 attracted many hard-core fans (at least in the beginning) was that Ishii did not care about differences in sanctioning bodies. As a matter of fact, many gave Ishii credit for his bringing many fighters the fans wanted to see for a long time. Among those were Cikatic, Ernesto Hoost, Peter Aerts, Ivan Ivan Hippolyte, etc.

To Benares,

The so-called facts that " Okao retired undefeated" and "Okao wanted to avenge his top student, Suzuki" were hogwash spread by Urquidez's management group. I have a lot of respect for Urquidez, but to me his story about his exploits in Japan sounds like Jean Claude Van Damme's "Kickboxer" or any similar movies. It's so one-dimensional. But I can see that type of story were attractive to American martial arts practitioners at that time, just as the Karate Kid and ninjas. Urquidez should not get all the credit for defeating Japanese fighters. There were others like Howard Jackson, Sam Montgomery. There are lots of stories regarding Urquidez which are false. First, he was decisioned by Prayout Sittiboonlert(though Sittiboonlert was heavier). Then, he fought the exhibition with Nobuya Asuka, but he claims he won the bout( this was a part of the pro-wrestling event). Now he claims he trained under Oyama. I know he met Oyama. But I highly doubt he ever trained under or with Oyama. All I know is that he trained in the Mejiro Gym while Fujiwara and others were there. This was the time I believe he picked up the art of leg kicks and leg checks, knees, elbows.

Yoshimitsu Tamashiro was the only Japanese who faced both Urquidez and Howard Jackson. It is true he was not allowed to use knee and clinch in the Jackson fight(the fight took place in Las Vegas), but he has more ill-feeling to Urquidez. Tamashiro was almost retiring at that time and had no intention to step into the ring again. But he had some obligation or something to the officials in the AJKF, so he agreed to fight. There are two facts about the fight he does not like to this day. Remember these are just his opinions. First, Urquidez did not make weight for his title defense(super lightweight), and the officials did not force him to lose a pound since Urquidez was the draw and they let him fight. Second, this is hard for me to believe. Tamashiro claims that he witnessed Urquidez jabbed the stimulant into his body. This is still open to debate. Anyway, this was Urquidez's worst performance, he was totally out of shape. Urquidez later faced Kunimasa Nagae,and did not have to make weight. Tamashiro was primarily known for his toughness. He could take whoever dish out. The most notable fight of his was against one of the greaetst fighters of Thailand, Saensak Muangsurin. Muangsurin was known for his punching power( as a matter of fact, he won the WBC world crown in his 3rd fight), but in the particular fight, Tamashiro was damaged by his devastating knees. Even though Tamashiro did not hit the canvas, the Thai referee saw something severe in Tamashiro's condition and rightfully stopped the fight. As he headed to the hospital, he found that some internal organs ruptured.

I knew that there was some controversy around Urquidez, but I gave him and/or his publicists the benefit of the doubt. One fight I do know that he lost hands down was his retirement fight against Tagami. Knockdowns that didn't count?! Tagami set the pace for most of the rounds though admittedly, Benny did surged back a couple of times, but I know I'm not the only one that felt that Tagami should've been the winner. Ernesto Hoost even commented that he thought Benny lost. Another thing, weren't throws illegal in Shinobu Onuzki's 1st fight against Benny?

Mitsuo Shima has been working as a judge and referee ( for example, the Le Benner/Roufus bout) as far as kickboxing is concerned. He still owns his forwarding business. Igari has returned to Nippon Kenpo roots and still owns his bar in Tokyo. Igari still conducts seminars;teaching muay thai to non-pro martial artists, assisting law-enforcement agencies as well as the self-defense force ( nippon kenpo is favored as the core hand-to-hand system of the self-defense force).

There was a talk of the Urquides/Fujiwara exhibition in the early '89s. When Peter Smit decisioned Andre Mannaart in the AJKF event, the possible exhibition between them was announced. Even though the date rules were yet to be decided, Fujiwara immediately began serious training, however the idear of the exhibition was soon given up since Urquidez allegedly asked the ridiculous amount of money for the standard of the sport. Thus, the fight never materialized.

Kozo Takeda is certainly one of today's top fighters, he is not the same caliber of Fujiwara and other fighters of the golden age even though he won the tile of the Radjamnern stadium. According to the opinions of some long time fans, the Radjamnern Takeda and others are fighting today is the ghost of the Radjamnern Fujiwara had to fight. The management policy is totally different. Beginning in the last decade, muay thai has been spreading worldwide. Thus, some Thai officials are dealing with foreign fighters easier and open arm compared to the '60s to '80s. Besides the title he won was the super welterweight, which is not as competitive as the lightweight and under.

There are various reasons the decline of the skill level among the Japanese fighters. Too many sanctioning bodies, and each forces its fighters to agree to the exclusive contract. And each promotes fewer events per year. All these contribute the fighters' lack of experiences. The other thing is that they try too hard to copy the Thai training way. This was especially the case in the '80s through early '90s. Master Toddy, Fred Royers, and Ramon Dekker criticized this habit. Eventually some fighters began to train in Holland as well. Today, there is even the official branch of the Vos gym in Japan. Now, because of the K-1 and MMA events, Japanese fighters travel around the globe to aquire the new skills, though any great fighter is yet to appear.

Yeah, I've been hearing a lot lately about Rajadamnern's quality not quite matching Lumpini's. Takeda isn't a bad fighter, but he relies too much on his low kicks (though they are powerful). Well, the Dutch method is pretty much the Netherlands' own style nowadays. There's still a strong connection with their Kyokushin and Japanese Kickboxing roots, this clip here shows Mejiro and Vos Gyms. Listen carefully to some of what's being said. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caVVAFRkP8U
And after being exposed to Muay Thai and Savate, the Dutch had no scruples with adding to their martial repertoire (I've also suspected that they put some Penjak Silat, but that's just my opinion) so they've pretty much developed an eclectic style that's broad and efficient. I've noticed that there's a do-or-die attitude in sparring and training, but whatever works for them.
I was hoping for Satoshi Kobayashi or Toshio Matsumoto to be the next stadium champ, but I guess Japan will have to wait for another to show up. BTW, how was Ogasawara able to get a title shot for the Rajadamnern middleweight? I still don't see how he was able to get that opporunity.

To Benares,

In one of his interviews, Ramon Dekker said, his trainer, Johan Vos incorporated various elements of martial arts such as savate, boxing, judo, penjak silat, etc. He even suggested Japanese fighters to fight the Thais with the karate/boxing combos. I'm not sure how serious he was about that comment. I have never heard of anyone in Japan to agree with Dekker's suggestion. There were only a handful of those using the karate/boxing combo to have minor success against the Thais; Don Wilson, Manson Gibson, Dale Cook, and Pete Cunningham. I guess he just wanted to stress you should not just copy what the Thais do. If you watch football( I mean soccer for the Americans), each country plays differently. The same thing has to be applied to muay thai.

Takeda is primarily known for his leg kicks and punches. This is not his fault, but his trainer Nagae's. Initially Takeda wanted to mix up with the body kicks and other techniques, but Nagae prohibited it.

As for Ogasawara, it was his manager/trainer Shin'ichi Ihara had worked with the officials of the Radjamnern stadium. Ihara promoted several events in the stadium, and the Thai officials has known Japan is quite a lucrative market for muay thai. I heard that the Radjamnern had some financial difficulties so that they decided to co-operate with Ihara's Shin-Nippon Kickboxing Federation. This is why both Takeda and Ogasawara were given the title shots. This upset even the Japanese fans. They began to see the muay thai they always respect and appreciate had begun to change in the less respectable way.

Kobayashi has been the best since the '90s. But in my opinion, he has taken too much punishment. He has never been known for his defensive tactics. I wonder how long he can last as far as his chance to get a title shot. I guess the fans are still looking for new bloods coming up.

To Benares,

Caeser Takeshi decided to create a new sport after he got discouraged with how wrong the sport of muay thai in Japan went. He accomplished what the Japanese muay thai community had to; establishing the amateur division. Muay thai in Japan has failed to establish itself as a legitimate sport because there is no amateur division. Because of the yakuza scandal, the majority of the gyms quite ofen disguise as karate schools to attract students.

Shootboxing and Shooto are better organized,and they attract many potential pros. Since the mid-'80s, Japan has had so many of full-contact competitions, thus the best talents do not always go to muay thai. This further causes the decline of the skill level of muay thai in Japan.

Despite many talented fighters compete, both Pride and K-1 are becoming circus acts. They are now heading to the direction which can be no longer called sports. It is just like the late'70s when Urquidez and other American karate fighters began to fight in Japan. No standard for the sport. I myself has been a huge fan of muay thai ( I personally prefer the way Europeans fight). I rather am fed up with the too-much emphasis of heavyweight and middleweight in K-1 and others. I would like to see the calibers of Ronnie Green, Tom Von de Berg, Richard Silla once again.

Kobayashi's getting old (he's in his mid-30's) and it looks like he's not gonna have too many fights left in him, unforunately. Haruaki Otsuki looks promising, but I disagree with his fighting style. Shootboxing has been gaining my interest over the past three years. Shishido is probably my favorite Shootboxer. He's going to fight against Buakaw in K-1 this fall, I'm definitely looking forward to seeing this.
It bothers me too, that K-1 ignores its featherweight, lightweight, welterweight, and light heavyweight divisions. I understand that Ishii wanted to have an open-weight tournament back when K-1 started, but it isn't fair that natural middleweights and light-heavyweights were forced to bulk up against heavier opponents. Look how big Ernesto Hoost got over the years! He used to be a light-heavyweight (185 pounds) like Rob Kaman, he's now 230 pounds. Look at what Andy Hug and Mark Hunt had to go through. They were the smallest K-1 champions (180 cm and 178 cm respectively), and it still amazes that they were able to hang with bigger guys like Aerts, Hoost, Le Banner, Bernardo, etc.
The anti-clinch rule bothers me a lot too...
Shooto has the best basis for MMA in the world. The Shooto commission has its A, B, and C ranks for fighters so that the amateurs can build from experience and rise through the ranks rather than be thrown to the wolves (something that too many underweight and inexperienced Japanese fighters encountered in K-1 and PRIDE).

To Beranes,

Thanks for you reply. The reason Ishii ignored non-heavyweight divisions was because back in '93, things had to be appearing to those watching pro-wrestling. Contrary to the popular stereotype, the Japanese citizens overall are quite ignorant when it comes to martial arts - both traditional and competitive. Pro-wrestling had been very popular and accepted in the main stream culture. The problem is the majority of people here (certainly I was not)were led to believe those "wrestlers" were real combat athletes. It is just like back in the '80s, the Karate Kid and ninja were more appealing to the main stream America than PKA full-contact karate, was sad to see the martial arts mage in the US focused too much on Bruce Lee and other non-fighting type personalities. But thanks to the UFC and other MMA event and K-1, martial arts practitioners and general public alike are realizing what is real and what not. In Japan the pro-wrestling was given so much attention than any real combat sports(boxing was an exception). As I looked back my school days, it was hilarious that some of my classmates were having heated discussion of their imaginary bout between Mike Tyson and Hulk Hogan, etc. People were uneduacted back then. Those types have no appreciation what non-heavyweight fighters have to offer. Thus, in '93, Ishii and other movers and shakers of combat sports had to re-brainwash the general public what true combat sports are. This is one of the reason I still have a fond memory of those who fought during what I call the dark age of 1980s such as Kaman, Smit, Maurice, and even Satake. Without their sacrifices, we would have not discuss our favorite sport on the Internet.

To Beranes,

The reason why the promoters of K-1 and PRIDE are pitting underweight Japanese fighters against heavier opponents is that they never understand the concept of establishing a legitimate sport. The majority of the combat sports in Japan, including the golden era of muay thai, are absense of the long-term plan to establish themselves to main stream sports. This is another reason combat sports are regarded to be related to pro-wrestling by the main stream Japan. Just as the kickboxing fad in the '70s, I believe both K-1 and PRIDE will fade away unless the people behind them truly understand the difference between circus(pro-wrestling) and real sports(muay thai,etc).

As far as the clinch is concerned, I think it all depends on how much the sport can be appealing to mass audience. There is yet another reason why combat sports in Japan has not yet taken off is too many of the participants and fans alike stress too much of the street effectiveness of their favorite fighting medium (MT, karate, etc). The knees, elbows, or clinches are certainly effective tools for the street situation (I myself was an mediocre muay thai practitioner, and had successfully defended myself against even more mediocre wanna-be tough guys in a few occasions). But it does not necesarily translate into excitement. You have to remember that combat sports are not only competing against each other, but against the major sports and entertainment as well. I think this can be the case for the rest of the world. Don Wilson once said in his interview the knees, elbows, and clinch should be prohibited to attract sponsorship from major corporations such as the Budwiser and Coca Cola. I know there are many who disagree with his ideas, but I think this a food for thought.

I've nothing against pro-wrestlers that actually did shoot matches. Pancrase was founded by ex-shoot wrestlers, and Shooto's grappling is partially derived from Karl Gotch's teachings of catch-as-catch-can wrestling. But yeah, you're right. Too much of this showmanship and freak matches have eroded some of the foundations in which K-1 and other fight promotions sought to instill in having legitimate and non-scripted bouts. I realize that K-1 has to attract viewers, and sometimes promotions and marketing overrided what these fight sports were meant to be. However, it still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth when there are fans who understand nothing what the fighters have to go through. Rob Kaman, Peter Smit, Leo de Snoo, and all the other pioneers in the 1980's-1990's had the misfortune of not fighting professionally nowadays. You've got the WPKL, WPMF, WMC, S1, WBC, etc. to internationally promote and popularize Kickboxing/Muay Thai events. Better sponsorships, fight purses, coverage, etc. are now making Muay Thai/Kickboxing into something that crosses over from the Netherlands, Japan, and Thailand into the global world. It's true that you have to market fight sports as "consumer friendly", something which K-1 and Superleague are doing quite well with their events. Taking out the elbows is okay (I personally don't agree with it though), but for the sake of general audiences, I can understand why they don't allow them. But the more restrictions that are being placed on Muay Thai/Kickboxing, it's not muay thai anymore. It's not a question of rules and regulations, it's also about preserving an aspect of Thai culture and heritage. I admit I was skeptical that the WBC was setting up a Muay Thai division, but the fact that they are working closely with the Thai officials to maintain the dignity of the art, I was duly impressed. K-2 and K-3 were great ideas that Ishii had, but they were never used again. Many a good fighter was passed over because of the fact that they couldn't make weight and/or willing to face the dangers of competing against guys who were in totally different weight classes. Having MAX is heading in the right direction, but it's not enough.

To Benares,

The omittion of elbows was born because of the fact that caucasians are prone to the cuts. If you are familiar with boxing, the late Jerry Quarry, one of the top heavyweights in the '60s and '70s, was known for the ability to take hits. Even George Foreman admit he purposely avoided Quarry. But against someone like Muhammad Ali, whose punches were more of quickness rather than sheer KO power, Quarry got cut easily and there were several fights which he could have continued if it were not for the cuts. The darker the skin, the lesser cuts you have. Ali experienced cut only once in his career, against Bob Foster. But it was still a slight cut. Another example is Troy Dorsey, who also was known for absorbing punishment, and experienced rather quick stoppage due to his cut prone skin. The premature stoppage does not sell to the general public. There is another factor that we have yet witnessed the potentiol lethality of the elbows in heavy divisions. The majority of the competitive weight divisions in Thailand are the lightweight and under. In addition to this, the Thais never go for quick KOs. If they have too many KOs, or quick KOs, let's say, like the Mike Tyson in his prime, they could be no longer considered as a gambling property. Payab Pemchai, one of the greatest welterweight of all time, had to fight with handicaps like, use left kicks only, or fight two opponents (fight one in the 1st round, another in the 2nd, etc) because he was so dominant in his division and it was extremely difficult to find opponents.

There is an injury factor as well. The elbows are more responsible for the detached retina. I had a couple of stable mates whose career cut short due to the eye injury. It is understandable that some people want to preserve the Thai tradition. But once something got the internatinal acceptance, in many cases it is no longer like the one in the original culture. Judo is a good example of this and now we see blue gi in competition. In Japan, the officials, fighters, and fans have much respect for muay thai, so they never what they do in Japan muay thai. Eiji Yamada, the non-sense, MA magazine editor and the hard-core muay thai enthusiast, claimed the true muay thai is the one you see in either Radjamnern or Lumpini stadium, and is lightweight and under. Anything other is not true muay thai. I think his view is rather extreme. But this indicates how difficult it is to compromise between the tradition and the mass marketing.

I see what you mean. I can't believe Tamashiro was able to withstand that kind of punishment! He had internal injuries, ouch. Not just Kickboxing/Muay Thai, even Japanese boxing doesn't quite match up to the heydays of the 1960's and 1970's. Guys like Fighting Harada, Masao Ohba (it was a real waste that he died early in his career), Hiroyuki Ebihara, Yoko Gushiken, and other classic champions are not found nowadays. It's irritating to see the Kameda brothers receive more attention than Hozumi Hasegawa (he legitimately beat Veeraphol twice for the WBC bantamweight crown, or a hard-hitter like Eagle Kyowa (though he's a Thai living in Japan).

So in the 1980's, All Japan Kickboxing was exclusively working with the WKA. I've always wondered why there a lot of those events in Japan. Like the Rob Kaman-Peter Smit fight in 1990. What was with those mixed matches between kickboxers and pro-wrestlers? I know that Dan Nakaya Nielsen and Changpuek Kiatsongrit had a match or two with NJPW and UWF. Why all these weird matches? I realize that Japanese audiences enjoyed these types of shows, but some of them looked as if they were shoots, and not scripted. So there weren't any notable Japanese kickboxers during the interim period to speak of? No one that fought regularly in Lumpini or Rajadamnern?

To Beranes,

The reason why Tagami was chosen for the Urquidez bout was because there was no fighter in Japan who wanted to mess with the international rule. It was pretty much the same reason Kyoko Kamikaze was chosen for Kathy Long. Tagami was a student of Ishii in his seidokaikan system, and had fought as a muay thai fighter for a couple of years. I think Ishii wanted to seek some connection in the Nevada Athletic Commission for a possible promotion in near future for his K-1 organization. In my opinion, they were just too naive to understand what it takes to fight in the Chuck Norris friendly atmosphere. The referee for the bout, Cecile Peoples, had been a long time friend of Urquidez's since the childhood ( both had the same karate instructor). When I heard the rediculous decision for the first time, I was not surprised at all since I had known Urquidez exaggerated his record and exploits in the Far East. But I was impressed with his performance despite the fact he was over 40.

The Urquidez/Onuki bout was initially ruled as TKO loss for Urquidez. But, the Japanese officials did not know about the throws were legal in full-contact karate (only in those days), and the Urquidez's corner did not know the throws were illegal in Japan. So, in the end, the fight was officially ruled as a no-contest. But if you look at Benny's book, this one was listed as a victory for him.

Don Nakaya Nielsen was a former stable figher of Benny Urquidez's Jet Center. In the US, he was KOed by Brad Hefton and Jerry Rhome. He first gained fame by fighting against some pro-wrestlers in the so-called mixed matches(I mean, they were pre-determined). During his training days in Japan, he was so fascinated with the art of muay thai, along with the financial complication he had with the management department of the Jet Center, he was convinced to fight for the AJKF. He was very popular among those who believed pro-wrestling shows were real. As a person, outside the ring, he was a nice person and had a pleasing personality. Unlike Don Wilson , he seemed to embrace his Japanese background. There was a big hype of his chance of beating Rob Kaman in the ring. Hard-core kickboxing fans knew it was rediculous. He even flew to Thailand and trained with Dieselnoi and Chummuackpetch Harpalang. But in the real ring, he did not shine at all. He got beat by Kevin Rosier, Kaman, Satake. He was a mere beginner in the sport of muay thai.

To Beranes,

Unfortunately, between 1987 through the early 1990s, I do not recall any name who were good enough to fight in either the Lumpini or Radjamnern stadium. The majority of the fighters in those days, in my not-so-objective opinion, were kind of the Thai-wannabes. However, since the K-1 grabbed the attention of the general public, some potential athletes began to enter the world of muay thai. Among them were Takeda, Masato.

Changpuek Kiatsongrit was about to fight in Japan, not in the UWF mixed-match, but in the shootboxing ring with Caeser Takeshi. However, he soon realized he could get paid better in Las Vegas, he instead decided to fight Rick Roufus.

The whole Kameda phenomenon is nothing but a joke. The boxing commision in Japan have feared that the K-1 and PRIDE would eventually take place of boxing in near future. So they decided to promote some circus act to regain the status the sport of boxing once enjoyed. You cannot compared to the early champions like Harada and Ohba to those who are fighting today. Fighters like Harada grew up in the tough condition of the post-war Japan. There weren't many choices as far as their athletic careers were concerned. Today, we have lot more options available, and people are taller and bigger than before. They are more interested in other sports or other fighting medium. Plus, the boxing commision has been very tight-assed. They have stupid regulations (amateurs and pros cannot train in the same facility,etc). This also affects the lack of flow of new talents.

the japanese fighters could never come to the level to the thai's and dutch except "fujiwara and shima" ... the reason why those can get good results is lying under the fact that they used only the advantages of "hip throws",low kick expertise, boxing aqnd also the easiness,not training of the thais who were not so much training at that times ...and this gap has been easily closed by the thais by eliminating the judo,hip throws and expertising in contra technics against the low kicks...during 80's the most contra effect was "shin, knee blocks" against low kicks , however ,today there have been created lots of contra technics in mt against "low kicks" ...

as far as i understand the success of the japanese was lying under the fact that kurosaki was a very hard trainer who forcing the fighters to train very hard...however, i guess that he is a very conventional, traditional ,not opening new dimesions and staying firm to the traditions...and this has prevented his continous success ...kobayashi is a good fighter, however , can easily be beaten by samkor...

Really, ercan? Many Kyokushin and Japanese Kickboxing sources state that the "Devil" Kurosaki was a very strict and dedicated coach. I haven't heard of this. I've heard of two main "styles" for Japanese Kickboxing: one that uses the same rules in Muay Thai (except for scoring) and the other style utilizes Muay Thai and Karate with wrestling, judo, and headbutts. No one's saying that Kobayashi is the best, but in the 90's, he was formidable. I just hope retires in style. Hiroki Ishii looks like he has potential, but he should be fighting in Thailand, not entering K-1 MAX.
Shingo, I've heard that the Japan Boxing Commission has recently banned boxers from competing in other fight sports (i.e. Kickboxing/Muay Thai, MMA). Is this true?
Nobuo Nashiro convincingly beat Martin Castillo for the WBA super-flyweight belt (no one really gave Nashiro that much of a chance to win) and Hasegawa twice beat Veeraphol (a great champ), but Koki Kameda gets 40% ratings?! I thought Joichiro Tatsuyoshi bothered me, but the Kameda brothers are something different.
How was Takeshi's Shootboxing back in the 1980's and early 1990's? I've only been watching in the past few years, and the earliest Shootboxing fight I saw was when Hiroshi Yoshitaka won S-Cup in 1995. I know that the "Standing Vale Tudo" rules were not in effect back then. They did use throws and takedowns, but no standing submissions, right? That brings up another point, Ramon Dekkers commented that he felt Japanese fighters were overrated, and stated that he fought and knocked five of them out. However, it was actually only three (Hiroshi Yoshitaka, Minato Taro, and Kenichi Ogata) since Akeomi Nitta fought to a draw (Ramon said that he considered Nitta to be a strong kickboxer), and we really can't consider the fight with Kohiruimaki to be that much of a loss for Ramon. Ouch, usually the Dutch have respected the Japanese, at least back then. Though Ramon has only fought 5 Japanese, it kinda shows how far Japan has slipped up when a fighting legend like Dekkers remarks that way. Let's hope it doesn't stay like this...
I was wondering about the Tagami-Urquidez fight, this makes sense now. Good point about Ishii testing the waters in Nevada. The NSAC referees they have nowadays are not making good calls. Challid using a headbutt against Hikaru Hori and receiving an 8-count?!
BTW, I've tried to ask this before, but no one was able to answer yet. It's a little off topic. Why did Jan Plas leave Mejiro Gym, and give it to Andre Manaart? Does Jan Plas still teach? He was a great coach, I mean look at what he did for Rob Kaman. I mean he learned from Kurosaki, and then formed the Netherlands' branch of Mejiro. Mejiro for quite some time was considered to be one of the best gyms, and was regularly beating other competitors like Harinck's Chakuriki Dojo. (If this is too complicated and/or private for forum discussion, then ignore this question.)

jan plas subject has been discussed many times...in brief the chronology is going as below:
-due to kyokushin karate there was a strong contact between holland and japan and plas was also one of kyokushin practicers and in one of his visit he met kurosaki and influenced from "japanese kickboxing " too much (at that times "muay thai" has become this new name and format although it has started in the beginning as muay thai )..and after return he opened "the mejiro gym" with permission of kurosaki who was the owner of "mejiro gym -jaqpan" ...and plas was very successful since he brought a new dimension and dominate all the dutch kickboxing scene and created big fighters like "kaman, carbin, royers,yamalı,brilleman" in modified mt and kickboxing...i remember those days when the mejiro fighters beating all the other gym fighters including also "chakuriki"...however , plas'name have been put into a "kidnapping or something like subject" and he went to prison ...at that time "manaart" got the the control and mejiro slowed down since manaaart was just a fighter and hadn't big experience as trainer...at this point "thom harink" came to the stage and began to dominate the scene...
however, those dutch champs have been good in "modified mt as at that times it was called as kickboxing and also in "low kick full contact" ...they also got some success in front of some thai fighters ...however, you should to consider that none of them could beat the best thais (lumpini or raja champs) in muay thai in spite of weight cathegories...
after his freedom plas preferred to stay in japan (wrestling) and now we see him at the corners of the dutch fighters...he was a very open minded trainer at his times...
-kurosaki, i did only to touch that he is very traditional in training methodology and sticked on old training methodologies too much...otherwise, of course he has done new things , he was one of the pioneers to convert "muay thai" into "kickboxing"...

I didn't know about that about Plas. I'm sorry I asked. I saw a lot of footage of him and his friend Johan Vos with past fighters like Lucien Carbin and Andre Brilleman, and I wondered what happened to him. I really feel bad what happened to Jan Plas. The man established one of the most respected kickboxing gyms, and he will always have my respect along with Thom Harinck and Johan Vos. Thanks, ercan. I won't speak about this particular subject again.

Great thread.

shingo - earlier you mentioned that Yasuo Tabata had defeated Steve Shepherd. It was Shepherd that was the winner of that fight by split decision and winning the WKA world super middleweight title.

To Beranes,

As far as I remember, there was never two styles of kickboxing in Japan. The truth is that the two organization (the Japan Kick Boxing Association and All Japan Kickboxing Federation) had to recruit fighters from different martial arts background to convert them to muay thai competitors. Some of those early fighters combined muay thai with what they trained in before.

JBC has always prohibit their boxers to compete in other fighting medium. Unless the fighters retire, they cannot make any transition to different fightinig sports.

Junichiro Tatsuyoshi was certainly promising when he was coming up. But I think his handlers screwed his career;expecting too much too soon. He failed to improve his defensive tactics. Yet he was more pleasant to watch than the Kameda brothers.

It is true the standing submission is allowed in shootboxing competition. But a very few fighters use them in the ring. One of the early fighers used them to setup for the throw. It is difficult to use joint locks with the regular boxing gloves.

To Tee Gee,

I appreciate the correction. Since the fight took place in Florida, I did not know the detail of the fight,and I now think the one who told me the story ( he was a gym owner) got a wrong info or something. Once again, thank you very much.

To ercan gürgöze,

There is certainly the factor that the Japanese coaches have tendencies to trust too much on what they acquired in the past, at least Kurosaki was a little more open-minded for the standard of the early days. For example, he sent Fujiwara to the Olympic wrestling team to further develop his clinching skills. Now Fujiwara encourages his fighters to cross-train in wrestling.
Kurosaki was not a kind of instructor who teach his students in every detail of the aspects of the sport. He usually let his students to absorb things they think useful by themselves. He gives a couple of pointers, and then the students have to develop from them. It worked well in the early days because fighters had more opportunity to fight. But today, we cannot afford to do that.

You may disagree but I believe the Japanese have fought the Thais in the common weight divisions more often than the Dutch due to the similarity in body size. Once again, whether you like it or not, the Japanese have to focus on what the Thais usually don't. I'm not saying their style is always working, and I, and many other know something has to be done to improve the current skill level.

You mentioned Fujiwara and Shima, but you have to understand they fought more than 100 fights in their careers. There were times when fighters fought more than twice a month. They had something which the current fighters don't - experience. Nowadays, it is difficult to have even more than 50 fights, and they seldom get paid in cash. Fujiwara, Shima, and others in the early era were full-time fighters. Some fighters built their own home, while others opened restaurants or other business ventures. The situation and circumstance are totally different. There used to be lot more fights available for fighters,and even today's K-1 and PRIDE cannot compare to those early days.

The rules are slightly different. Back then, the Japanese adopted the two-minute interval rule as in Thailand. This allowed the Japanese fighters to throw fully-commited long-range homerun punches. It certainly had KO power because of the distance the punches travel. Now the interval is one minute. The aforementioned punches have to be modified. Kyoji Saito, the former stable fighter of Kurosaki, whose career ended in 1991, fought both during and after the golden era. He had difficulty adjusting his punching techniques. Into the 80's, he still used the everything-homerun punching tactics, however, with the one-minute interval, he could not have sufficient time to recover. So, often his hands went lower and lower. He was floored by Richard Sylla of France, but luckily got up and KOed Sylla. But he was not that lucky when he met Tom Von de Berg in Amsterdam. When his hands began going lower, Von de Berg saw the opening and execute the picture perfect roundhouse kick to the head and KOed him. The Dutch style combinations work lot better for the one-minute interval, and for the 2-minute round international rule. This certainly has been the standard for the sport in the past two decades. The coaches and teachers might be not so open-minded, but the fighers today, such as Masato has incorporated many new technologies,and there is the official branch of the Vos Gym in Tokyo. So, in future, I hope there will some good fighers.

I could've sworn that there were two approaches in the Japanese Kickboxing scene. Oh, well. Shingo, I didn't mean to be harsh on Joichiro Tatsuyoshi, it's just that there were other deserving champions that should've been more recognized. Like Katsuya Onizuka, he hid his fading vision in his left eye and fought on, defending his WBA super-flyweight title several times before being TKO'd and finally retiring.
I've heard a story about Kyoji Saito. He wanted to train in Mejiro Gym and wouldn't stop asking so Kurosaki told him to stand still with a book on his head for 3 days. If he failed, Kurosaki told him to never come back again. Sato was able to do it, and I heard he later knocked out his sempai, Fujiwara. Is this true?

To Shingo,

I was wondering if you knew how well they have archived Fujiwara and Shima's fights. Fujiwara has a nice DVD out but there are some fights on there that I would have liked to have seen included such as his bouts with Pudpardnoi, Narongnoi, and Prayuth. There use to be fight magazines that sold videos 15 years back which seem to have lots of footage on the older fighters. This was way before DVD.

I have yet to see anything videos with Shima Mitsuo. Wasn't and he fighting at the same time as Sawamura (whos got his own DVD compilations)?? I would have thought there would be plenty of film on him for what he had accomplished.

to shingo,

i totaly agree that the japanese have fought in equal weight status much more than the dutch...it's sure...it's also sure that fighters like "fujiwara,shima" had much more fighting opportunities than today's fighters...however, what i feel strange on the japanese trainers is that they are too much searching for new things for development and on the otherside they stick,trust on the traditionals,rulesigeneralities,commons they have created too much...i think that such attitude is bringing far away from the origin,focus of the discipline(for example ;muay thai) ...as you mentioned they don't care about the abilities,capabilities of the individuals too much...

There was this old Kurosaki instructional called "The Real Technique of Power Kicking". I think you can find it available online still. It had Kurosaki and Fujiwara demonstrating Shin Kakuto Jutsu, as what was Kurosaki's fighting style was being called back then. It showed a unique type of footwork that was markedlky different from what was being used in Muay Thai. It was a faster and unorthodox footwork that was very elusive and effective. The footwork was presented in the video, along with adding it to fighting combinations and evasion tactics. There was also warm-up exercises, shadow boxing, heavy bag training, Thai Pad training drills, practice techniques with a partner, sparring in the ring for 2 full rounds. The video also shows many useful tips on how to increase the power of the Mawashi-Geri (Roundhouse Kick) and it's application at the three levels - Jodan (High), Chudan (Middle), and Gedan (Low). Also, the use of the Clinch and Hiza-Geri (Knee) in training on the heavy bag, Thai pads, and against a training partner. These techniques were similiar to Muay Thai, but slightly different and modified. This is what threw off the Thais in their matches against Fujiwara, and made him so successful as a fighter. Fujiwara had a real offbeat movement, kinda like mixing boxing and hula dancing into a cohesive series of shifting and angling.
ercan, I agree. Besides Kurosaki (and this was back in the late 70's when he was developing Shin Kakuto Jutsu), not too many trainers would improve and adapt their methodology. But nowadays, fighters are aware of what's going on, and are beginning to show signs of marked improvement.
Shingo, yeah I've noticed the way Japanese fighters would set up their punches. I was wondering why they did that. Kings of the Square Ring showed a lot of those punches.
NOI, I get some of my videos of old-school Japanese Kickboxing here: http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer/home.php?cat=547. I got some fights of Genshu Igari there. They might have one with Mitsuo Shima in it.

toshio fujiwara in action !!

toshio fujiwara

toshio fujiwara

toshio fujiwara

17 june 1983,toshio fujiwara fought a 1 round against kunimasa nagae.

17 june 1983,toshio fujiwara with his wife akiko and his daughter sachiko.

Farewell ceremonie,17 june 1983,korakuen hal,tokyo.All the lights when down and the bell rings 10 times for the last time,for the great Toshio Fujiwara.That day his career ended and his legend began.

On his visit to Japan in 1975, Jan Plas, founder of Mejiro Gym Amsterdam, met with sensei Kurosaki at his dojo in Tokyo. The dojo of Kurosaki was situated in the "Mejiro" district so this is where the name originated from. Jan Plas, impressed by the level of skill at Mejiro Gym Tokyo, decided to stay and train with famous champions like Fujiwara and Shima.From that moment,it all starts here in Holland,so eveybody here who know a lot about thye old days,know who Toshio Fujiwara is,he's one of the persons who bring kickboxing here !!!!
Respect to Toshio Fujiwara.

Thanks for the pics, dirk. Here's some more along with an article about Fujiwara (though it's in French).

Fujiwara had a real offbeat movement, kinda like mixing boxing and hula dancing into a cohesive series of shifting and angling



I don't think this style could have been taught to the masses.kurosaki might have guided him somewhat but It must have been Toshio's own interpretation and rythym movements that set him apart and made him sucsessful

That's true. I can't see too many people moving like Fujiwara did. I've noticed Kobayashi try a few times, but he's too forward.
BTW, I know Fujiwara did some seminars in France (hence those pics with Andre Zeitoun), and I imagine he's been to the Netherlands no doubt, but anywhere else? It'd be great to see Fujiwara giving some pointers in the United States.

To Beranes,

Saito fought Fujiwara when Fujiwara was almost retiring. I do not recall the detail of the fight, but all I remember is that Saito saw Fujiwara's defense was not tight and threw the his hook (right or left, I don't know) and floored Fujiwara. The damage was not severe, so he got up. However Kurosaki at the ringside told Fujiwara's corner to stop the fight. Kurosaki's reasoning is that a veteran like Fujiwara should not have been floored by an inexperienced fighter like Saito when Fujiwara should not have had carelessness for his defense. Since Fujiwara got up, he could have continued and eventually dominate and win the fight. But Kurosaki felt it would not do any good to the career of Saito, who had just started his professional career. Fujiwara himself accepted the decision of his teacher, and even congraturate his junior. In return, Saito kept showing his gratitude to the man he respected the most to the point he could not stop weeping uncontrollably.

Shinkakutojutsu was started when Kurosaki witnessed Katsuyuki Suzuki was KOed by Benny Urquidez. He always has had very low opinion on American full-contact karate, however, he found something in full-contact he preferred to the regular muay thai: the two-minute round. He thought the two-minute round is much closer to the reality of street situation than the three-minute. For example, Urquidez was decisioned by Sitternboot in the 2-minute 6-round fight.
The Shinkakutojutsu as a sanctioning body did not last long, and today, it is more of the organization for non-pro practitioners. As far as the training curriculum was concerned, it is not different from the regular muay thai.


To NOI,

Unfortunately, the majority of fights in the golden ear are not available commercially. Since the muay thai organization in Japan has continued splitting from one another, very few people know who owns the distribution rights for the fights. If the sport once again can grab the imagination of the general public, the great fights of the past will resurface in the DVD format in near future.

To ercan gürgöze,

I have to agree that the Japanese trainers often ignore the strengh for each individual fighter. This is not only the case for muay thai or other combat sports, it is the case for practically every sport as well. I, along others, have felt that the Japanese attitude toward sports in general has to be drastically changed and we are almost always having trouble competing against those of the Western countries. I guess I can say that reading and participating in this forum is one of the ways to learn about the cutting edge of the sports technology, not to mention our beloved sport of muay thai.

To Dirk,

Once again, thank you very much for the pictures you posted. I too have some of those in my old bookshelf in my parents' home. I hope I could get those and post them on here. Some of the photos I collected are those of Peter Smit's. They are not just about his fights in the ring, but the casual one as well. He and Satake got along very well with each other. Smit was certainly a charismatic fighter.

To Hector Gomez,

Kurosaki is not a kind of instructor who teach his students many details of the technical aspects of the sport. He let,or forced his fighters to figure things out by themselves and develop something from those. Fujiwara noticed that his teacher briefly mentioned the rhythm the Thai fighters fight in. He realized that in order to beat them, he had to destroy their fighting rhythm which set the fighers' pace with the traditional music. Thus, the unconventional footwork method was born. When people talk about Fujiwara's exploits in his career, his footwork always mentioned. It proved one way to fight the Thais, just as the Dutch fighters developed their patented combination skills. There are other aspects of his fighting methods which can not be considered to be the standard muay thai. The way he throws his round kicks seems to be from somewhere between muay thai and kyokushin karate. He also recommended the side kicks for stopping in-coming opponents. Some of his counter-clinch tactics look like wing chun trappings.

I have found this tread absolutly fasinating and informative.keep it up guys

shingo,

however, there isn't any dutch ighter who could reach the success of fujiwara did ...even the best "ramon dekkers" cannot be the raja champ...this is interesting...i think that the reasonsfujiwara gets success are:

: "his own capability ad the weakest times of the thais "...i think that the 1980's were the weakset times of the thais who not been trained at that times properly...i have been told that especialy 1980's the thais were not so much training i.e. total 3 hours /day...after some defeats (1985's) they started to train 5-6 hours as they did in the past...and also chamging the rules especialy "judo, hip throws" played alsoa very important in this concern...

to ercan,
Weren't most of Fujiwara's fights during the 1970's? He won his Rajadamnern title in 1978. I know he fought until 1983, but I believe most of his significant bouts were in the earlier decade. Some of my favorite Nak Muays like Dieselnoi and Samart also fought in the early 1980's too.
to shingo,
Ah, thanks for confirming that. I've heard about Saito beating his senior, Fujiwara and I was just a little unsure. It'd be great if you could post some of those pics of Fujiwara and other old-school Japanese kickboxers.
Fujiwara definitely had an eclectic approach to his fighting style. You mentioned that he cross-trained in wrestling for his clinching skills. Very nice. And I didn't pick up on the Wing Chun-esque trapping. BTW, what was wrong with Fujiwara's foot? I heard that he had to get extensive surgery sometime in the late 1970's, and there was a possibility that he couldn't walk properly. I'm sorry for bringing up this point again, but why do worked matches and showmanship get confused for real kakutougi? For the most part since K-1 and especially MMA hit big in Japan, most (though not all) pro-wrestling organizations have been on the decline yet I feel that there are still lingering sentimentality. I realize that this partially stems from Rikidozan and the way he was able to whip up the public with his "victories" over foreign wrestlers back in the 1950's, but guys like Masukatsu Funaki (who battered his body for the sake of promoting a real promotion like Pancrase) helped pave the way for practicality back in matches. People should wake up and distinguish between what's fantasy and what's real. Too many promising Japanese fighters and athletes suffered greatly for the sake of drawing in crowds and/or pitting themselves against experienced opposition.
to dirkstahl,
Thanks for the pics, dirk. Your dedication to your friend, Peter Smit amazes me. I can never forget his wars against Rob Kaman and Changpuek Kiatsongrit. A true budoka in the Kyokushin family. Please pass on my condolensces to his family for their loss, if it's not too inappropriate. Osu.

What's up with Fujiwara popeye calves?

3 hours of jump rope?or what?

To Shingo,
Thx,I hope that you send me the pictures of Peter Smit !!You can make me very happy with some pictures of Peeta nd not only me,also his family.please send them !!

To Benares,
Thx !!Fujiwara belong to the legend of Peter Smit,Toshio Fujiwara was Peter,his favorite fighter,when he started with kickboxing.And yes,my dedication to Peter Smit is very big!! But,he's the one,who bringed me into the fightworld,so,as long as I live,I will promote him and will let his legend live forever !!

Shingo,
I know that in the 1980's, Akio Fujihira (AKA Noboru Osawa) trained a Kyokushin karateka named Harutomo Takeyama for Muay Thai/Kickboxing. Takeyama, I recall eventually became a middleweight champion in Japan, but he got beaten in Thailand a few times. Whatever happened to him?
dirk,
It's the least I can do for a legend like Peter Smit.

Hello

Great post!!

I am also enthusiastic of the history of the Kick boxing,I have compiled many videos of this golden time in Japan Kick boxing:
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Kiatsompop
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Monsavan Lukchiangmai
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Refugio Flores
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Johnston
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Nakamura
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Sensin
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Adachi
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Sinsack
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Dentorany
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Munchon Jiraban
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Shirimonkon Ruukushiribatto
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Charanpon Sootai
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Saijo Shozo
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Shiipureii Gyasson Poppu
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Suzuki
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Tuchiya
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Bukuryu
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Run
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Lauison
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Rantien
 Toshio Fujiwara vs Soponsak
 Old Japan kickboxing (Fujiwara, Igari, Tabata...)
 Best of Igari (japan kickboxing legend & popular K-1 referee)
 All japan kickboxing history
 Tadashi Sawamura vs Saman Soo Adison (1966) First Kickboxing macht
 Tadashi Sawamura vs Ponchya Kyadsuria
 Tadashi Sawamura vs Monkonton Siitokun
 Tadashi Sawamura vs Sanegan Soopatshin
 Tadashi Sawamura vs Ukemi Kiyomitsu
 Tadashi Sawamura vs Namukabuan Kuronpachon
 Tadashi Sawamura vs Konpatapii Suwanmisakawan
 Tadashi Sawamura vs Chuuchai Ruukupanchama

Benares, _Shingo... please contact me
spainkakutogi@yahoo.es

Greetings

Hector,
Take a look at that pic I uploaded with Kurosaki and a couple other guys including Fujiwara kicking that tire. Kurosaki was known as the "Devil" and Mejiro Gym was the "Hell Dojo". The training conditions at Mejiro were to be simply put "inhumanly brutal". Hours of bag and pad work, tire kicking, running and shadow boxing, etc. made Kurosaki's fighters to be tough and skilled. There's a documentary called "36 Years of Silence" about the 1964 challenge between Kyokushin and Muay Thai. You can find it on Yahoo!Japan auctions. It's mostly about went on behind the scenes before Kenji Kurosaki, Tadashi Nakamura, and Akio Fujihira went to Thailand and it also shows Fujihira's fight against Howfai Lukwantang. The film shows the hardcore training that was at Oyama Dojo (Sosai's school for Kyokushin back then) and some of the preparation against the Nak Muays. It shows Akio Fujihira and Tadashi Nakamura putting on gloves and sparring. Here's a brief clip of some of the scenes in the documentary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRIYBNSgOO8
As you can see, Kurosaki was a very hard-working and dedicated karateka. The foundation of Kyokushin helped Kurosaki to form his Mejiro Gym into a respected force.
to Spainkakutougi,
Wow, you got a lot of vintage footage. I'll get back to you about this.

To ercan gürgöze,

The fact that the Thais did not train as hard as they used to is one thing. But I think there was another factor to contribute the decline of the overall skill levels. I was under the impression that the regular western boxing gained more respect and recognition in Thailand than ever before. Kaosai Galaxy and his brother were hugely popular, and I used to know the owner of the Thai restaurant who openly admited he was more fond of western boxing than the Thai counterpart. Kaosai scored numerous KOs in his career, and certainl he was more appealing to the not-so-hardcore fans. This is just my opinion.


To Beranes,

I asked my brother in back home to send me some of the old mags I collected in my school days. It will take quite a while to post the pics. Please be patient.

The "wing chun" part was just my impression when I encountered the article he showed the techniques years ago. I am not too familiar with different martial arts. The only thing I am sure is that what Fujiwara showed in the article was about redirecting opponent's force and taking him down to the ground, rather than just tying him up in the typical clinch fashion.

I am not too sure about Fujiwara's injury on his foot. I'll ask someone who know more about this.

As for the pro-wrestling in Japan, some people enjoy watching for what it is - a form of entertainment. But the majority of the hardcore supporters are just a bunch of geeks who are looking for a way to release their anger which might have been caused by the fact that they are not popular with girls or etc. They are not the type of people who actually train and mix up in competition and they talk big and never back up. Unfortunately, they had the huge power and influence until the K-1 and PRIDE came into the picture. I remember a couple of years ago when Masato won his K-1 MAX title, the geeks were so hysterical to the point they put him down endlessly on the Internet. With boxing, muay thai, judo, or other hardcore, or serious martial arts, this is not usually the case.


To Dirk,

Please be patient and I will post pics. I'm not sure whether the pics I had are the ones you have already seen. When I mentioned the casual pics of Peter, they were more like the one with his buddies. I don't know whether he was married at that time. But I'll try my best.

To Hector Gomez,

Many of Kurosaki's training methods can be considered to be insane or crazy by today's standard. For example, his students had to perform endless number of hindu squats until Kurosaki said enough. I mean, they had to endure this punishment for all day long. Kurosaki drilled them with a simple thing over and over just to push you to the limit which initially was regarded as impossible. In order to prepare his students to fight in Thailand, he theorized that they had to train as hard as possible at least 8 hour long (sometimes 12 hours). He had the interesting theory that 8 hours of hard work in Japan is an equivalent of 2 hours(I don't remember exactly) hard work in Thailand, due to the difference in climate. The effectiveness of the aforementioned training methods are still open to debate. But nonetheless, he produced some of the best fighters in his era.

To Beranes,

The late Mas Oyama considered Takeyama as the man with the greatest Kyokushin fighting spirit. Since his retirement, Osawa(Fujihira) has owned his diner (the favorite among both the fighters and fans alike), and he never mess with teaching someone, except Takeyama, who Osawa thought worthy enough to train. Takeyama had already retired, and has his own business and family to take care of. I heard that recently he came back to fight an exhibition in something called the Oyaji Battle event. I am not sure about this.

I used to have the video you mentioned. In it, Kurosaki said the initial rules of the fights were about one round with the Kyokushin rule (there was no Kyokushin competition back then), another with the muay thai rule, and repeat this cycle. But it did not work out as they expected. So, Kurosaki and others had to accept to fight in the Thai rule. It was unfortunate to see only the Fujihira fight. Even though he KOed his opponent, he got his collar bone broken due to the Thai's vicious knees. Kurosaki himself got cut viciously with the non-stop elbows and eventually got stopped. I think this fight is available in VHS. I have to find out whether it is true.


To Spainkakutogi,

An impressive list of the fight tapes. Unfortunately, I got most of them in back home. However, if I want to find something I cannot find otherwise, I will E-mail you.

Buried in my tapes somewhere, I have seen Kenji Kurosaki fight against Rawee Daechachai. It was a in a Yodmuayek special were they showed Kenji come back to Thailand and have a chat with Rawee who later became a police officer years later. I can't quite remember if it was cropped or if it had the whole deal.

If memory serves me, I believe Kurosaki sustained a cut from an elbow, thus Kurosaki lost by TKO from Rawee. However, it was reported that Kurosaki thrashed in his stretcher as he was being carried out of the ring because he still wanted to fight! Kurosaki was definitely something else.

shingo,
Ah, thanks. I found out that Takeyama was one of Sosai's uchi-deshi and he fought in 5 All-Japan Kyokushin tournaments from 1980-1984, always being in the top 8, gradually rising through the rankings in each tournament until he was 2nd place at the 16th All Japan Tournament in 1984. I figured he must've had considerable talent and conditioning to be trained by Fujihira for kickboxing.
Those guys actually actually put down Masato online when he won MAX?! What an utter lack of respect. Masato was the only Japanese to have won a K-1 championship thus so far, they should've taken that into consideration. Khaosai was strong, and Pongsaklek is impressing me a lot. No hurry about the pics, I was just curious to see them, that's all.

I may have missed this, so sorry if I am asking again, but does anyone know where Ceasar of Shootboxing trained? Is he related to Kurosai and Fujiwara?

Caesar Takeshi's real name is Tomofumi Murata, and he was a former All Japan welterweight champion. I believe Caesar Takeshi had trained in Kyokushin karate and judo when he was in his teens.

Guys,
Thank you all for a very informative thread.I got hooked on muaythai(or Japanese kickboxing) back in the 70s when they first started airing taped delayed fights of Japanese kickboxing in my area.Every saturday morning I would record some of these fights.little did I know(until recently) that one of fujiwara fights was recorded on one of my tapes.

This was a fight fujiwara had with a thai fighter named bunka or bukaw(sp),don't recall the exact name.Anyways,fujiwara kicked him in the groin accidently in the first round and the thai fighter had to leave the ring to change his cup.10 minutes later when the fight resumed,fujiwara went on to display a beautiful art on how to end a fight with a combination of punch and low kick to end the fight in the 4th round.

I have been hooked on muaythai ever since.

shingo,

yes, "boxing" is always showing it's popularity...also taking interest of many people ,crowds...i think that the fame of boxing in thailand is developing much more quickly among new generations than mt...this is the destiny as everywhere...

Hector,
Yeah, some of the first Japanese Kickboxing fights that I saw were Fujiwara's. He was definitely one slick fighter.
ercan,
I'm sorry to ask this, but is Queensbury-rules boxing popular in Turkey by any chance? I know Turkey has produced some good kickboxers and thaiboxers, but how about regular boxing?
shingo,
I just rewatched the Urquidez-Okao fight. Is it just me, or does it look like Benny used an elbow in that final flurry that knocked Okao out? I'm just wondering cuz I thought elbows weren't allowed in that fight.

shingo,
I also saw the Changpuek Kiatsongrit and Yoji Anjoh match for UWF. That looked real to me. Changpuek's hits were hard, and everytime that Anjoh went for a takedown, Changpuek held onto the ropes.

This is for you guys in the know,

I had heard that Fujiwara had not taken martial arts seriously until he was 18. He had previously just played table tennis. Can anyone elaborate on this. I find it fascinating that he could get a relatively late start and turn into a world beater.

I heard he was a gymnast before he began fighting and this is why he had the great physical attributes going in.

I heard that Fujiwara did some karate (not sure which style) before he joined Mejiro Gym. I think he also played regular tennis, too. BTW, has anyone read his book on kickboxing? I'm thinking of buying it.

i don't think that he had too much efforts,time in karate...the only possibility to meet "muay thai" may be through "kyokushin" since his trainer kurosaki (mejiro) had to train together with "kyokushin karatekas" at the same place...(before his mt and kb story kurosaki was the co-partner of oyama and the real fighter of kyokushin...

I've been reading up on the 1982 "World Thai Boxing Championship" with Thailand in first place, Japan in second, an American team (led by Ajarn Surisute) in third, and South Korea in fourth place. Anyone know how these fights went, and what representatives were sent for each country?
BTW, I've also been reading up on the first American to professionally fight in Muay Thai and Japanese Kickboxing, Ray Elder. He was ranked number five in the middleweight division in Thailand as well as being the All Japan Middleweight champion. What does he do nowadays? I know that Dale Kvelheim teaches in Bangkok nowadays (another American who fought in Thailand in the 1970's, he had some sick elbows).

I've been watching All Japan Kickboxing, Shin Nihon Kickboxing Association, Shootboxing, New Japan Kickboxing Federation, IKUSA, RISE, and K-1. AJKF and Shootboxing are the organizations that I have the most respect for (due to AJKF's connections with Lumpini and regularly having ranked Nak Muays in their events, something that Shootboxing has been doing a lot quite recently as well). Are there any other organizations or promotions to look out for in Japan for promising fighters?

I've been reading about how karate in the 1950's was taking off with greater acceptance and popularity in mainstream Japan, but full knockdown matches weren't something that was common. I've read how some karateka faced off against Thai boxers and got smashed during the 50's, and I've always wondered how the karate vs muay thai scene looked pre-1964 (when Kenji Kurosaki, Tadashi Nakamura, and Akio Fujihira faced off against 3 Nak Muays in Thailand). I've been reading about how Shorinji kenpo, boxing, and the various karate styles were being examined and ideas exchanged. Arguably, this would form some of the basis for "Japanese Kickboxing." Later on, the Japanese took in Muay Thai techniques. Can anyone give me some more insight into what was going in the 1950's and early 1960's?

Forgot to mention this. I've been watching Atsushi Tateshima and Kensaku Maeda's fights from the late 80's and early 90's, and I'm really impressed with them. Anybody know how the two of them did in Thailand? I've only seen their fights in Japan.