Ok on another thread I mentioned memetics. It still new to me but I have a better grasp of the idea now.

I was mainly interested if anyone else has read or knows anything on the subject as I personally think it can have very large effects for athletes.


Basically a very simplified over view of memetics aas I understand it is-

memetics is the study of memes

there... ok, ok

memes are bascially ideas...thoughts etc that act in such a way as to replicate themselves.

There is no consciousness in the memes themselves but they survive if replicated, if not they don't.

So say I get the idea for chocolate flavoured hot dogs and I tell 20 people but no one buys into the idea and therefor it doesn't replicate and does not become a meme.

Lets say a movie star shaves his head. People see that and think its cool and copy the idea (the idea replicates) it is now a meme.

I hope that kind of makes sense.

The depth of memes and how they effect every aspect of life gets way more interesting and complicated than those examples.

a 'good' meme is a meme that survives and spreads (as opposed to good and bad)..

Any 'good' meme that spreads enters the mind (all the methods of spreading and some are hidden etc etc gets interesting in itself) and once in the subconscious it becomes a part of our reality.

One meme will effect other memes or choices or situations we come into.

One very negative meme I see in the MuayThai community I see is "we can't beat the Thais at thier game', or 'Thais are so much better because they train since they were 6', or 'Thais are better at wrestling'.

Regardless of true or false this thought in the subconscious will act on ones reality.

Example -'Thais are better'

Then one limits themself to not achieving. They are telling thier brain that they cannot be as good. And if they fight a Thai they believe subconsciously that they are not as good-or maybe that they have to get a lucky KO

Point is memes are everywhere. They have entered our minds since birth (I would say before birth too). What we believe has often been given to us and we often really don't know the origin or possibly have never looked into it to see if it is something we want to believe.

Countries are memes. There is no such thing as Canada and America and nothing seperating them except memes that they exist.

I'm not trying to say this is good or bad I am simply trying to give a few examples of how prevelant they are in our lives.

memes about religion/beliefs, cultral memes, memes about self, memes about other cultures, memes about possibilities or limits etc

I think the idea behind memes and the meme I am spreading -;)- is that if we look at them, maybe dig some up from the subconscious and make decisions on which ones will benefit us in our goals, lives etc we can free ourselves from memes (beliefs) that hold us back.

It may sound like just a different way of looking at things but reading up on it has lent alot of depth into how our ideas evolve and get forced in, slip in, get accepted into our minds.

Half of what we believe (probably way more) seems to be based not on conscious thought, not on what WE decided is true, but on what has been put there and others beliefs.

Regardless of all that I think it can have huge effects on our potential as athletes!

Origionally how I heard about memes was discussing the sympathetic response of the ANS with my strength coach. We were talking about the flight or fight response and I was thinking that if we are in a fearful survival mode it will access strength but limit our abilities etc it was along the lines of toughness etc and I had all these ideas mixed together.

He said its largely to do with memetics. I was like me-what? lol and he gave me a brief run down.

At certain stages of memetics we are concerned with survival... and that limits us in our potential etc at the highest stages we use our lives to give back to the world... sort of (this area I haven't quite got into in my research yet)

He said its like The Matrix and suggested I rewatch.

Don't get sucked into the machines and the matrix etc etc

More the idea that the mind is controled by beliefs and thoughts (memes) that you may or may not have chosen. Infact a large % of them are not ours..

As Neo sheds thoughts (memes) holding him back and adopts memes that free him he is able to do greater and greater things.

Yes its a movie and I'm not suggesting we can fight like Neo does in the matrix nessasarily its a great example of how it works.

All this said its all new to me. I do believe the conscious mind should be the gate keeper to the subconscious mind. I also believe that greatness, including in athletics and fighting, comes from the subconscious mind so it makes sense to me to look into what is in there and to carefully choose what goes in and therefor what can come out...esentially creating who we want to be.

Don't think for a second that companies spend billions of dollars on advertising yet it doesn't work on you..

Anyway-thats the basics as I understand it.

I am currently reading "Viruses Of The Mind" The New Science of the Meme" -Richard Brodie (Brodie was Bill Gates personal assistant and the origional author of Microsoft Word)

Now all the memes you have from birth to now will effect your reaction to what is above. Thinking it possibly true will reflect memes in your subconscious and thinking it a bunch of shit will also reflect memes in your subconscious.

"Empty the cup" is another way of putting memetic programming aside and looking at something while consciously trying to see it for what it is I guess... But I really think untill one has a meme that says something like 'all I believe may not be what I choose or even be "true"' then anything new is simply bs and they will stay the same (not nessasarily good or bad). If one has a meme that says 'I want to change and grow and learn. I am willing to challange my beliefs' then they will have a greater capasity to look at something new and make changes in thier life.

The strongest memes are those that survive and they are mostly about danger, sex, and food...

Danger memes get into survival and that can come into play with fighting. Do they help or hinder?

I mean this is only a snipit of how memes can effect performance...

Basically I'm hoping someone knows something about them.

I am also hoping to spread some :)

My strength coach was gonna recommend a book but he hasn't yet. In the mean time the one above is pretty wild and I htink it can effect ALL areas of life but also sport and fighting.

Sounds reality and perception based. From what little I hear the new quantum physics is similar.

Thought and belief are powerful stuff. In ways which I think we under estimate. Quantum physics tells us that in a very interesting way thats for sure!! I think that does apply!

ok heres some real life sport related examples of memes and effect.

Not so many years ago there was a meme that said the human body (read you) could not run a mile in under 4mins. The basis for this meme was the ever perfect and never changing science (those are memes that are clearly false-scientific texts contain facts that are constantly changing...but facts don't change!) The scientific world developed the belief that it was not possible and runners everywhere bit. It was a meme in thier minds. Proof? When someone broke the mile and there for the meme it didn't take long for others to do the same.

Example number two. A great fighter that I htink everyone on this site probably knows. Ali.

Here is the power of belief again. Ali prgramed his brain with "I am the greatest" "I am king of the world" etc and I don't think any can argue he was. Is that a meme?? No, not untill the idea. thought etc replicates. This "I(Ali) am the greatest" certainly did spread. Many people believed it. I also belive this is a good example of how repetition can create memes. Many probably didn't believe it but repetition starts to sink in. I believe it sunk in with many of his opponents into thier subconscious. IF it did slip into the subconscious then the meme that says Ali is the greatest also will say IAli will win or I can not beat the greatest or I am not as great as Ali etc etc etc

I don't nessasarily agree with Alis methods of programming his mind for reasons other than effectiveness in the ring. But thats irrelevant.

How many times as a kid were we told, or felt, or percieved that we were not good enough in some way or another? How many times were we programmednto fail? (kids generally try to get validate by succeeding, say getting A's cause they don't feel enough or they validate the feeling of not enough by not being enough and maybe getting c's and d's.. Or because they don't feel validated hame themselves by failing all together.

I guess thats more beliefs than memes but there are millions of outside influences on the mind and the mind is made up basically of experiences and instinct. Of experiences how much is memes and memetics? Basically all.

Memes take no prefferance to being right or wrong. No prefferance to being 'true' (though we what we believe to be true are the memes that spread best, good memes, and were handed to us). Memes are simply memes if they spread and the ones that spread best spread best.

Culture and religion are all memes. I'm not saying they are true or false, not saying good or bad./ Just saying that they wouldn't spread if they were not 'good memes'.

So the question is, as a fighter, what memes serve your purpose? What do you think? What goes through your head? What do you believe?

I believe I'm pretty fucking great and amazing and that I can do anything I set my mind to. I also believe that of EVERYone else! -my ego fights me there and tries to say the opposite but I'm winning over it :)

I believe in trying to program my mind for limitless not limited. For the under 4min mile.

(what about those who were brought up thinking fighting was 'bad'-how dose that meme effect you and could it still be in the subconscious?

here is a meme "flouride is good for you"
here is another meme "fouride is bad for you"

Reading that 'flouride is a rat poison' from me and what one gets out of that will be to do with the memes they have nabout me, about flouride, about being able to look at beliefs and challange then, about caring for the body etc etc etc

Lets say you have memes like 'they wouldn't put in our products if it was bad for us' or 'my health is my responsibility and I will take care of it'

These two memes could have vastly different responses in even hearing what is written (it friggin rat poison!!!!!!)

(these aren't th only two memes or factors-just examples)

The latter meme might cause one to do a little research-in fact there is no rocket science needed. It just takes the ability to challange ones beliefs and actually look past what everyone else does and see for themselves if in fact there is evidence to support the statement.

Or the former meme. Its read, not heard or ognored and you keep putting rat poison in your mouth day in and out.

Lets assume you do the research and you find that it is poison and lots of evidence says its not a good plan to use.
Now many dentists recommend rat poison. Now what does that mean. Is there more to it? Are they caught up in the bs?

We have a problem now. Educated dentists we trust are recommending rat poison... what gives?

Now you can start to see how beliefs that spread (memes) effect us.

But depending on your memetic programming you may say 'oh but they wouldn't allow something that hurt me' and you keep daily absorbing rat poison.

To each thier own.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8953172273825999151&hl=en

google documentary on how exactly we are taught what and how to think...

current research on memetics and brain washing says about 2% of the world population has access to their own brain...

See everything we have been taught and told as a child from our parents and in school etc etc is in there. Everything we see, smaell, taste, touch, hear etc is experienced through the filters given to us by others (loads comes from TV and companies, gov, religion etc etc as well) whats in the subconscious interprets what comes in new. If the beliefs aren't consciously assessed then they are there from someone else, not self and therefor all the rational that is based on other peoples beliefs is not our own. (most people opperate about 8% conscious and 92% subconscious-the thinking that we do is in the conscious-but it is all directed and matched against whats in the subconscious-so quite literally, if you have not looked into your beliefs and questioned your own and see if they are really true for you and if they actually serve your life you cannot be thinking very much on your own)

Clues for defensive programming are things like emotions stemming in discussion or disagreement or on certain topics.

I like your posts mark, have you read the selfish gene?

Gor - Thank you for sharing your perception.

I have not. It has been referenced in some of my studies etc. Wasn't that the first place the word 'meme' was used?

The one book I read on memes (one of my courses also covers it in a section) was "Mind Viruses, The Science of Memes" (pretty sure that was the title)

"The Voice Of Knowledge" - gets into the concepts that all that is in the mind are 'lies'.

Gary Craig - talks about it like you live in a room and on the walls is writing.

You're mum/dad etc wrote -"Lying is bad", "This how to brush your teeth", "This is how you throw a ball", religious beliefs, beliefs around money etc (everything)

When an experience enters the senses it is automatically compared to all the writings on the walls BEFORE we have a conscious thought about it.

We think we think for ourselves but it compares to all that is on the walls - a large part written from before 6 or 7 years old plus all experiences etc


Yet we think we think for ourselves.

The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins talks about memes, I have the book but I havn't read it yet. Richard dawkins writes alot of good books I think you would enjoy reading them. Take care, Gor.

Thanks Gor
I may get to it one day. My book list is nuts lol

I like audio best. Make the most of driving time :)