Hello,

I started off in Kyokushin,went to full contact kickboxing and then to kisk,thai boxing then settled in Muay Thai for a long while.
i have returned to Karate now and compete pretty regularily for fun more than anything to keep pushing myself.

i founght a while ago and thought to myself that it is actually the hardest (for me) to compete in.

I know there are no head punches but you can kick and knee to the head and we dont wear gloves when we fight and shin pads are optional so it is bare bone to legs,midsection and as i say knees and kicks to the face and head.

it is always in a tourney format (long days and difficult to keep warm etc)

i just wondered why it is not as high profile as other sports such as Kickboxing or Muay Thai?
Fighters at top level train just as hard and although it is slightly different can often fight 6/7 times a day to reach a final and are in my oppinion at a very high skill level.

one of the things i tend to think holds it back is the fact of the Gi (karate suit) which kind of makes everyone look the same and perhaps because it is an amature sport without ring entrances etc....

(maybe it is the jui jitsu to mma)

any thoughts???

it works well enough for machida, good luck with it mate

I think you've hit the nail on the head there rich. A gi to me means a traditional martial art and in traditional martial arts it takes roughly 2/3 maybe even 4 years to reach black belt, the holy grail that society measures a martial artists skill by. In comparison,it takes a relatively short amount of time to become competent at muay Thai or MMA.

I've always admired kyokushin as a martial art. I did a bit of shukokai when I was younger and really wasn't impressed with it at all which kind of put me off karate and it's different styles, what with most of them being offshoots of each other but kyokushin is quite impressive. I'm sure a proper strong punch to the sternum or clavicle is just as painful as getting punched in the face.......certainly more disabling anyway

This is the Trailer from last years IFK British Open.

Whilst I appreciate the skill and dedication involved I just don't think it's that good of a spectator sport; the lack of head punches and the gi definitely contribute towards the lack of appeal IMO.

Although Kyokushin has definitely produced it's fair share of good fighters!

A former European Champion takes classes locally and it is a very impressive martial art. i've been a few times and enjoyed it but i cannot get use to the sparring and lack of punches to the head. however, the guys that do it are pretty good and very dedicated. i think, as has been said before, its the gi issue. I also think MT is a far better spectator sport - i am bias there though!! :-)

i wouldnt class Kyokushin in the same terms as other forms of karate, its far superior. Some very tough kyokushin fighters have crossed over into other combat sports and done really well. i enjoy watching it!

Dpo you think if they lost the gi(or even the top) it would be better to watch

maybe fight in a ring?

or is it just not that much of a spectator spoort?

they often have good knees, but i watched a kyokushin fight on its showtime, and it was quite boring.

it can be boring when everyone uses, 3 body punch followed by low kick ...which most do

to be honest a good muay thai boxer should take most of them apart

you just loose the clinch and elbow really

they tend to bury head and stay very close

i enjoy it because you get to fight a few times a day(and i can hide my fat in a suit he he!)

plus we get to smash boards

it is sooooo karate kid !

it is not to be underestimated as a good stand up art though

The "father of karate", Funakoshi, didn't intend karate to be a competitive sport although it became one in his day. I guess it's an eternal question but there are those who view karate as an art, and that when the mindset of winning comes about, it interferes with the true benefits and essence of karate.

Also, real karate is quite deadly. A real karate match would be a fight to the death. In order to make it a safe competition there are rules in place to help make sure no one dies. But when you make those changes, then the techniques change too, and before you know it it's no longer karate.

('-'

s-literati

do you feel that Kyokushin is the nearest to true karate competition ?

I believe also that Karate must be tested to know its efficiency

i have seen "world championships" in point karate where i worry very much about the technique used

very innefective in "real life"

when does that kumite stuff come into it?

its pure kumite !

in my mind i am always thinkig
what would Jean Claud do!

It's hard to say what "true" karate competition is when points are involved.

Textbook answer: If you google "Gichin Funakoshi" you can see that he helped introduce karate to Japan in Okinawa and started his own system "Shotokan", and that he helped established the Japan Karate Association in Tokyo in the 1920s.

He DIDN'T invent karate itself, he just helped make it extremely popular. In his writing he talked about his fear of people getting carried away with the idea tournaments, but at the same time tournaments help promote karate schools.

Although Shotokan is one of the earlier karate systems it doesn't it all mean that by going to a dojo that offers Shotokan makes it any better than another school.

While I was in a Japan I joined a large karate organization that had dojos all over the country, and from that experience I was able to find my favorite sensei. When he broke off to start his own dojo I then joined that.

It all comes down to the individual teacher and their talents.

Wow, never even heard of this style, but going off that trailer posted further up, it's a whole world away from semi-contact MA's.

Looks a pretty tough sport, but being completely and utterly biased, not as 'ultimate' as MT. :-)

I think it's good to have the experience of training in karate in both as a sport and as an art at least once. If you do a lot of karate competition over the years you might notice how your body is simply programmed not to punch the face area no matter what because it gives you a foul in a match. So if you're doing any street-fighting (purely for self-defense of course ..[wink]..) you'll most likely lose to someone who 'isn't playing fair.'

On the one hand, tournaments give incentive to train hard to meet certain goals.

But on the other hand, the target areas are so different for karate as a sport versus an art, so there are many deadly techniques that you can't use or bother to learn at that type of dojo.

To be honest, I don't believe so much in one particular school of any martial art. The sensei I just had is incredible, his talent is rare. But when he dies there's no one else at that dojo who could ever replace him and carry on the knowledge. It comes down to the individual - be open and learn from everyone.

I have always had respect for all traditional 'hard' style karate's and martial arts, and Kyukoshinkai is no different. However, there should be head shot allowed in a similar way to the Shotokan tournaments whereby even just allowing 'straight' punches to the head (ie no hooks, uppercuts) would open it up to an even wider audience. Saying that, you could also have an extreme rules whereby any head shots allowed!?!

You do - it's called K1.

I mean in a traditional karate sense - on the mat, full gi, and mma type gloves. I think it would be wicked.

Yeah but it would still basically be k1 - i mean thats how k1 started. They were originally kyokushin challenge matches vs people from other style but still competing under kyokushin rules. The exception was allowing head strikes but even that didn't get brought in until later.

They allowed the full gi and that. the infamous "muay thai vs tkd" video was filmed on this original format.

I gotta admit either way K1 is probably the most entertaining ringsport out there.. That MT / TKD video was a joke. TKD rarely does well in mixed fights, regardless of rules.

Too many of the basic techniques and rules they train for are seriously flawed for it to work in anything even remotely resembling it's original form. It's about as useful in a fight as tai chi.

Nephilim, I take it you've never practiced real Tai Chi then. You should give it a try before you make sweeping statements like that. It's not all old ladies in the park.

Lots of Tai Chi can be applied to Muay Thai clinching.

Lol i knew somebody would come up with something like that no matter what I posted. Praying mantis kung fu then.

looks pretty shit most of the decent ones cant block a kick

you have such a closed mind its funny

i personally think it's impossible to have the ideal venue where there's competition with karate (or a lot of other martial arts) without watering down the art side of it. The techniques are designed to be deadly or devastating to the body longterm so in the ideal perfect world the bouts would be short-lived and tournament players wouldn't have a long career.

in sport karate you score a point, lose a point and live for another match.

look I respect some of kyokushin and it's capable of producing some decent fighters... but quit it with the deadly technique stuff. I'll see your eye gouge and raise you a cross to the nose.

in most countries you are not allowed to kill people, even under the heading, self defense, so whats the point of these so called "deadly techniques"? Would they be any more serious on the body long term than what happens in true combat sports? I think not. However I do think that too many wannabe's get caught up in believing handed down fable and fiction. If your training is that good and you are that skilled then there are two places to prove it, in the the ring or the cage. Otherwise it is mere speculation and bulls#*t!

My lad has now asked to start Thai(he saw the limits of Karate)

So that is where we will head now

i recon he will be better than i ever was .........(waiting for the comments)

should be fun !