Changpuek in MMA fight:

Another K-1 Superstar to Fight MMA




Brisbane, Australia. 15th of December 2001, is the date of Australia's biggest mixed martial arts fight to date...K-1 super star, and seven time world muay thai champion, Champuek Kiatsongrit, is taking on Tony Gun, BJJ brown belt and boxing student of legend, Roberto Duran from Panama. it is the first no-holds-barred fight to be televised on foxtel in australia. and, the only mma fight on the card, the rest of the card will be headed by duel world muay thai champion, Ian Jacobs. Kiatsongrit, who has over 300 professional wins in his native Thailand, has beaten many greats in his career including, Rob Kaman 3 times, and defeated, by breaking the shin of K-1 usa champion, Rick Rufus with a leg kick. Kiatsongrit has also beaten Pride's Akira Shoji in a mixed fight in Japan, and is considered one of Thailand's all time greatest fighters. He has competed in more K-1 events in Japan, than any other thai. and on the 3rd of November, won his seventh world muay thai title in holland, with a 2nd round k\KO. with Kiatsongrits involvement in a MMA event in Australia, it will certainly bring a huge amount of credibility to the sport of MMA down under. And with the added foxtel coverage, no doubt, bigger and better events will only follow.

Kudos to the promoters Scott Bannan and Ian jacobs. They could have put on a mma fight early in the night with some locals to test the reactions. But to actually fly in a legend from overseas and put him as the semi-main event on Foxtel in his first mma fight. Ballsy stuff.
Some friends and i will be there to witness this historic event. Here's hoping it's a sellout.

Hey!
I believe Robbie and Changpuek fought 4 times.
2wins each.But the 2 times Rob won they were by K.O.
The 2 times Changpuek won-decision/points.
Am I not right??!!
I must admit...That Thai is still a killer!Go Changpuek!

rob fight changpuek kiartsongtit 4 times.
the first he lost on points in france and the second he win by a great knock out
in amsterdam. the third he lost in bangkok on points and the fourth and last time was in japan k-2 tournement.rob had an injury and he let changpuek win!!
you see t-hill i know a lot about rob,he's for me the greatest thai/kickboxer
on earth. he's my idol and he's retired now,but i have never seen a fighter so great as rob kaman.

Was it Ricks shin bone that he broke?

Thigh I think...and that was way back.

What wieght did Kaman fight Chiangpeuk at?

rob was a lightheavy weight,so he was 78 or 79 kiloos at that time .

peter smit has fight changpuek 2 times,these fights where 2 complete thaiboxing
wars.the first time peter won by the way of knock out in round 2 and the rematch he lost on points,but everybody who have seen this fight they now that there was only 1 winner: peter,,hurricane,,smit.

dirk-what do you mean there was only one winner? Are you saying the last one was bad judging?

yes,peter lost on points,but i have seen the tape 1000 times and he won,but you can't win in thailand on points as a foreign fighter.

That is not true.

Maybe they just score differently than what you are use to.

I won my last fight in Thailand on 'points'. I lost the first 3 rounds and won the last two and won on 'points'.

Its a different game and if you try to win on points kickboxing style then yes you can't win. If you get points Thai style then there shouldn't be a problem.

I think for the most part. The Thais are very careful not to look bad as farung complain about everything.

My first fight in Thailand I wore 4-6oz gloves and my fighter had 8oz on. They wouldn't do it the other way or else the farung might complain.

The Thais know the game to well to have bull shit calls.

Its more likely to be different judging as MuayThai is different then any other kickboxing style for 'scoring points'.

I always here about bad judging in Thailand but I have seen it myself very rarely and have heard little convincing evidence of it other wise.

Especially with regards to farung.

Its a different game and what you may think should score is not what nessasarily does. That doesn't make it a bull shit call. It makes it a different game.

o.k mark, i know all about muay thai,but that was in 1990 and it was a title fight worldchampionship lightheavyweight and that time it was all different in thailand.peter smit was much better and he fight not only to changpuek,but also
to the judge,because everytime when changpuak was in trouble he stop the fight.
and in my openion,he must give changpuek 2 times a 8 count,but he never do.

To my knowledge and it's our promotion the fight is under full Thai rules not MMA.

So are the Chinese going to be able to win a desision with the Thai judges in the MT vs.SS fights in the kings cup?

Full Thai rules? who plans on making it a fight with this guy? Most dodginess in thailand is when a fighter loses intentionally for monetary gain. I think that their criteria for winning is really different than ours. Although I read Ramon Dekker once say that you must knock out a thai to win in thailand. Suppose it all depends on situation and fighters involved. You might get a fairer shake in a small venue rather than the big stadiums where heros are built unless you are in with a promoter that wants to create a story line.

I used to watch Thai fights and really never know, or be wrong on who was winning. But I am starting to understand it much better. Most of the time by the end of the third or fourth you know who has won the fight. I had watched fights for years and with the Thais I still had no idea.

I'm not saying you don't know but when someone says you can't win on points as a farung...

JWP-what do you think?

Sawtanang(5 fights in Thailand) your thoughts?

Who else? Anyones opinion I'd like to hear but especially those who have fought in Thailand. Prefferably those who lived there and fought as opposed to a quick visit and fight.

But everyone.

JWP-I think this came up a long time ago and I wanted your views but I think you must of missed the thread. So speak now. :) what do you think?

Well you are right on the spot the judging is confusing but as I have noticed some things that judges look for in THA are: which fighter keeps the midlle of the ring, which fighter scores the last effective technique comming out of exchange, effective use of knees and elbows. These are pretty much one of the important things judges look for. And I thing that one of the importand things is on who the bets are. This may be the cause of weird decisions sometimes.

The gamblers know the game too well for there to be many bad decisions.



The only bad calls i've seen in Thailand everyone agreed it was a bad call(the reason why they can't do it). First real bad one was in Lampang city. Everyone was complaining. saying the judge was drunk etc(at least one was I think).

Middle of the ring I'm not so sure about. Often enough the 'ring master'(whos in controle) is on deffence and sometimes has back to the ropes.

The trade-good one.

Mostly its whos in controle I think. Regardless of strikes. Red may show amazing deffencive skills and strike blue at will(even if not very often) and be winning.

Yeah Mark I'm probably where you were back then in terms of scoring the Muay Thai bouts in my head. I don't always get it right. It's obvious when it's Thai vs Foreigner...but when it's Thai vs Thai sometimes it's really difficult for me to figure out who would win on points. I still have a lot to learn about how the scoring is done.

I'm still learning. But my last trip to Thailand and some input from some of those who know better has helped alot.

Also I'm trying to watch fights as a judge now and see who is winning(no round by round stuff). Its helping alot and by the end of the third often enough we have a winner. Fourth almost for sure.

I was around MuayThai for along time. I watched lots of tapes for a long time. But the undestanding I got in Thailand(even more so a couple things that were mentioned after I came back) and practising has helped me alot. I still have a ways to go.

But it is very different than anything else.

Again I mentioned my last proper fight in Thailand I won in two rounds. I lost the first three. (things that some of you say don't happen) Its not really common and its not how it always goes but...it happened to me + the fact I'm a farung and i won on 'points' in the last two. I bet money round by round wasn't recorded either.

Farung-I think the Thais are very careful not to be biased in MuayThai. The crowd understands the game too well.

robbie kaman knock changpuek kiartsongtit out !!!!!
amsterdam / jaap edenhal 18-02-1990

hey dirk...what were the weights of those 2 fighters? did kaman have a weight advantage?

i don't think so.

it was a worldtitle fight lightheavyweight,so,i think that rob kaman was 78 kilo

What did Chiangpeuk fight at before he started fighting farung? 140-147lbs maybe?

maybe he's a natural middleweight.

Mark. At his best he fought at 140lb.

I think a middle weight is a bit of a stretch. :) I think about 140lbs sounds right. :)

Obviously he can fight heavier but I'd say thats a huge disadvantage. I think that would partially account for some of his knock outs. Certainly has my respect.

I don't know why but I tend to think Ramba/Somdet will be a better ground fighter than Chiangpeuk. I don't know why I say this but I just think so. Should be interesting to say the least anyway.

By the way thats not saying Chiangpeuk won't be good.

well i knew that was coming.
i believe kaman started as a middleweight,so if i'm correct,lt. heavy isn't his natural weight either.

I've been told many times that Kaman had a weight advantage.
But nothing compared to the one Le Banner had over Changpeuk.

kirk- so one went from superlight(or junior welter) to heavy(well fought heavies) and the other went from middle to heavy, quite a big differance.

I don't know if Chiangpeuk was smart but he certainly has balls and help show the heart and power of MuayThai.

point is he weighed the same.
when coban fought manson gibson,he was the same weight as manson but fat and outta shape.
when changpuek fought rick r. and r. kaman he weighed the same and was lean,very lean. so uless he took steroids he grew into that weight.
ernesto hoost was a middleweight who fights heavy weights. when he looses there's no boo-hooing over it.

I'm not boo-hooing...just saying it is a factor to consider.

Chiangpeuk and Rick both fought much lighter than they fought in later years.

Are you sure Kaman and Chiangpeuk fought at the same weight?

Even if they didn't it is not a huge deal but it is a factor.

There are many factors and weight is one. Even if one bulks up a lot the body frame is still the same and can't take what someone of that natural weight can...to some degree anyway.

Kaman was a really good fighter, period. KOing Chiangpeuk is a credit to his record. But weight is a factor, just as skill is and experiance and heart and conditioning etc etc

Some guys went from middle to heavy. Chiangpeuk went from super light(I think) to fight super heavies...wow. No excuses on his losses but it does factor in.

Not knocking anyone who beats him just saying hes got balls and he will be more likely to get KO'd jumping up that much than he would fighting same weight.

Changpeuk went up the weights to fight Robbie, and was at what had become an 'acceptable' difference. They had great fights and the weight difference served as an excellent handicap which i think the results bare out.
But Robbie's natural weight as he got older took him further away from comparabilty, i think.
I also think that Robbie (especially) and Ernesto are not Heavyweights (in the true sence). It wouldn't suprise me if Rob trained like he used to to make 72 he could probably have stayed under 85kg. But once the 82kg mark gets passed, they couldn't get down low enough to fight Thai's (which was the big attraction in those days in Holland) so, left in no mans land, they both went up to heavyweight because thats where the money was.
I guess they couldn't gripe about loosing to heavier men, they forced their weight up to that.
Cheungpeuk fought at these weights because his management told him to (thats not to say he didn't want to, it must have killed him to make weight in his home country)
I think Kiartsongrits best/comfortable upper limit is now 75kg, although he always looked comfy at 72 outside of Thailand.

when changpuek fought kaman it was at lt. heavy. there didn't look to be much difference in size.
it's just when thais give up weight and win it's a big deal but when they lose weight has to be factored in.
at what point doesn't it matter?
hoost is fighting men that weight 100lbs. more than he did at one time.
changpuek comes up to a weight where he looks very lean and muscular, very natural looking. maybe 30 lbs. hoost has gone up 60 lbs.
tommy hearns went from welter to cruiser and even challenged evander holyfield to fight.
chang was probably killing himself to get to the older weight and naturally grew into the s. middle weight or lt. heavyweight once he let go. coban was around the same weight but got fat when he stopped making weight.
if you stop dieting and put on 20-30 lbs. and are still lean guess what,thats your natural weight.

natural walk-around weight maybe...but not natural fit-fighting weight...looks can be deceptive.

Chang and Lebanner never fought!!

If he is lean and not sucking weight - ie. fully hydrated, then that could be called his natural weight.

Why is it that when a Thai beats a bigger fighter it is called the power of Muay Thai, but when the Thai loses, it is called a uneven fight?

Matt I do not mean its unfair, nor do I think anyone is saying that.

But its a factor.

Even so i don't know that what you are saying makes sence.

Fighting heavier guys and winning certainly says something and loses to bigger guys-well weight and power are certainly factors.

Though I'm not saying anything other than they are factors. Certainly not the full out reasons.

Small can beat big...its just harder.

I think you are trying to say Thais dehydrate themselves etc...maybe but their walking around weight is still light.

fights fight.
but we always hear this. as soon as a thai loses,was he giving up weight?

Are you saying its not a factor are are you just arguing with me?

Fight is fight. Chiangpeuk has lost. Big deal. Hes lost at lighter weights too. But it is something to take into consideration.

Not just the Thais either.

The natural heavies have an advantage over the lighter blown up heavies. Not just the Thais.

This argument with is nothing to do with weight. You are arguing about a different issue. Its not just cause he's Thai. You find what you look for. If I knew more fighters I could comment on them. Hoost went up someone said and Kaman too. It will be a factor for them also of course. It is a factor for everyone. Anyone knows that and I don't think you are arguing that you are arguing that I mentioned its a factor about a Thai. Sorry I don't watch as many fighters as I do Thai and can't give more names of others. Plus this thread is about the man.

Weight is a factor. Not the only one by far but it is a factor.

Many fighters in many styles have for one reason or another gone up in weight. This is a factor though many have done well.

BTW - Chang Peuk uses and trains uses Cusley gear (his shorts are Cusley as well):

why? because you didn't ask how he was knocked out, or what was used to beat him, only what the weight difference was.
evander was not a true heavy, but has one of the best chins in the division.
sugar ray and tommy hearns won titles in 5 diff. weight classes.
in the case of coban and manson gibson,yes i think weight was a factor because he was fat and bloated, his lean body mass was much less than gibson. but in this case i don't think so.especially if he did no weight training or steroid use.if this is true,his body grew to this size with no assistance.
coban and changpuek both fought for 175 lb. titles. coban got down to 147 lbs. to fight danny steel afterwards, could changpuek get down to that weight anymore?
maybe i am looking for something thats not there but......

Chang Peuk is a good few inches taller than Coban though.

That phot of him was taken the other week he doesn't have much fat on him.

So you are saying that him fighting at heavier weights doesn't make it easier for him to get hurt and or knocked out?

Wieght is a factor for Evander. Having a strong chin especially after moving up a little makes him more impressive.

You give examples...I don't know why. They are factors for all fighters and you are just pointing out others who have gone up in weight. Great for them.

and every time a thai get s beat by a farung the muaythai nazis ask about weight.
my point about changpuek is that he grew into that weight. just as rob kaman did.
if you grow into that weight naturally why should it make it easier to get knocked out? i mean does he way 175 lbs. or not. is his 175 lbs and different from another 175 lbs. in cobans fight yes it was a different type of weight.
if his body put the weight on naturally wouldn't it know his natural limits?
i gave examples of fighters who grew into other weight classes and were successful,who were able to absorb punishment the same as they did when they were lighter.
it would be different if they were fighting and there was a 15-20 lb difference but this wasn't the case.
how can two guys weigh in near or at the same weight,have bf levels in the single digits, and say one has a weight advantage.

Hry kirk, are you calling people who train Muay Thai, nazis?

All I'm saying it is a factor.

I've fought heavier guys as well as lighter guys.

My last fight I said it was silly as I was heavier and no matter who won my fighter would get hurt.

It is a factor period.

Obviously growing into weights is your natural weight. But not many fighters go from superlightweight to super heavy opponents. Hes got my respect.

Obviously he is not a blown up super light weight but don't tell me he's naturally built to fight the likes of Aerts and co.

Muay Thai nazi's! hee..hee!
Chang had all his fights around the lt heavy limit during the years he fought Kaman! He fought for a few lt heavy titles! He weighed in usually at the lt heavy limit! Occasionally he dropped one division to super middle. That should solve that!

Chang did fight old legend Branco Cikatic at heavyweight many years ago! Chang was 75kgs, Brank's was just under 100! SPLAT!!!

mark, i'm i talking about s. heavy weights? last time i checked we were talking about lt. heavies.
he's got balls for sure for fighting in the k-1 at that weight but now we're comparing apples and oranges. so did nokweed devy.

sawtanang,
i didn't say anyone was a nazi. why?

I was just asking about weight I think...

He weighed lt heavy at weigh ins...thanks :)

Kirk

"every time a thai gets beat by a farung the muaythai "NAZIS" ask about weight"

i said MUAYTHAI nazis not nazis. a bit of sarcasm.
and it's not to say ppl who train in muaythai(hell, i'd have to include myself,well maybe i would have to, i don't know for sure, maybe i haven't trained in it long enough, or because i haven't trained in thailand excludes me) are nazis,it's just saying some ppl here are a bit anal about it.
why?

Hey kirk, are you calling people who train Muay Thai, anal?

can you say fuel to the fire.
smart ass.

I have a real problem with 'anal'.

Who is anal?

Ive never seen him post

Anal Nazis for the growth of MuayThai unite.

Yuck. Anal and Nazi. Something about those two words tells me they shouldn't be in the same sentence, for the sake of visualization.

On a side note...
Did you see the difference in calf development between Rob Kaman and Changpuek Kiatsongrit?

Brian,
Are you referring to the picture re:calf development?
That is not Rob Kaman!It is Peter Smit...Another Dutch
Legend.
I've met Changpuek and his calves are big!

T-hill.
I saw a few of peter Smit fights... a crazy guy.

Most thai's have a well developed calf. It comes from a well developed stance :)

yeah...jumping on a tire helps too. :)

That is such a Nazi remark.

LOL

Sorry there are fighters outside of Thailand that don't jump on tires and that aren't Thai that have big legs too. Sorry. :P

Mark. It's spelt "tyre". Only Nazi's spell it "tire"

Tire = poor mans treadmill


It's not the size that matters, it's the type of fibers inside.
There is research indicating that smaller/shorter muscle bellys create more force. Maybe Chang developed those calves by secretly wearing weighted FC booties!

tread mill, tYre-it may be a Nazi think to say but they arte very, very different in effects.