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dan
Posted: 2003-02-01 01:15:07
Master Toddy's show
Women Muay Thai Fight Night Part I
Friday, February 7th, 2003
Stardust Hotel & Casino, Las Vegas, Nevada USA
Tickets : $30, $60, and $100
Doors open at 6:30

2003 will introduce the USA to a year of Muay Thai action as Master Toddy embarks on his biggest promotional drive yet. Beginning with February's all-female fight card, every other month is slated to bring the best Muay Thai fighters to Las Vegas. These events are sure to draw the crowd to its feet.
A tremendous success in England, Master Toddy aims to capture lightning in a bottle once again as the battle of the best female Muay Thai fighters comes to the first of three thunderous match-ups under the lights of the Stardust Hotel. There fighters from USA, Canada and England will face their opponents who are determined to be crowned the reigning Warrior-Queens of the ring.
Making their fight debuts this February, the newest members of Master Toddy's fighting team are prepared for the best. These women possess the skills to make their mark in the championship ring. All share the fierce determination that is a characteristic of Master Toddy's fighters. Their fighting techniques are numerous and diverse, just like the cheering crowd that will accompany them to the Stardust Hotel. The bouts are scheduled as follows:

Tasha Marzolla (Las Vegas, USA) v. Nina Magsamen (Minnesota)
Tasha is a 5-time Playboy magazine model appearing on the cover numerous times in one year. Beautiful and deadly, Tasha's day job masks the power and offensive weapons that she unleashes in the ring. Her powerful front kick helps keep opponents away from pounding at her face. This weapon will surely be needed as Tasha faces Minnesota's own Nina Magsamen. A master at finding the weak points of any fighter, Nina will surely aim to keep Tasha off the cover of any magazine soon. Her flashing fist combos will be set on one target. Although Nina has more ring experience than her, Tasha has the energy of the hometown crowd behind her. If this fight goes the distance, Tasha can emerge as the victor.

Celina Cruz (Las Vegas, USA) v. Michele Roseanne Elizabetn Grizzle (England)
Coming fresh off the heels of her impressive victory at the Orleans Hotel last September, Celina Cruz is set on starting the year off with a winning streak. Armed with her favorite piercing front kicks to the face, Celina is out to show that youth combined with heart and skill can be a deadly mix. She is ready to face her overseas opponent.
Michele Grizzle is an undefeated fighter in her home country of England. In order to accept the fight against Celina, she certainly did her homework. She is ready to defend against any kick Celina throws at her with her own fast combos. Michele won't let Celina get any bonus from kicking her in the face. This bout will be a show of the art of Muay Thai at its best.

Linda Loyce (San Francisco, USA) v. "Killer" Kate Meehan (Denver, USA)
Linda Loyce is a well-known fighter from the famed Fairtex Gym in San Francisco, California. A product of champion-trainer Ganyao, Linda has fought some of the best Muay Thai technicians. Her power and speed emerges in her own mastery of Muay Thai attacks. This time she will be facing a different challenge.
"Killer" Kate Meehan of Denver, Colorado, is a champion kickboxer who has fought under Muay Thai rules before. She is fast, nimble, and showcases different techniques during the fight. It will be interesting to see how Kate handles the Muay Thai offense thrown at her from Linda, while Linda will surely be seeing a new approach to how Muay Thai can be mixed with kickboxing in the ring.

Keri "The Crusher" Crothers (Canada) v. Trisha "TNT" Hill (Georgia, USA)
This bout will be a clash of champions as the two countries bring out the best of Muay Thai to Las Vegas. The championship belts between the two of these fighters would decorate the entire ring if it was still left standing after their match. This battle promises to be one of the biggest fights of the evening.
Returning to the Las Vegas ring after a hard-fought match in China and a karate championship in Canada, Keri "The Crusher" Crothers is ready to face any challenger. Already stepping up to the likes of champions such as Angela Rivera, Keri has proven that she will back down from no one. She will be facing a tough opponent in Georgia's Trisha "TNT" Hill. With Trisha's tremendous punching and kicking power and Keri's height and speed, one of these fighters may feel closer to the mat than she would like. Trisha is known for her hammer-like spinning backfist, but she will have to find Keri first. If Keri misses with her pounding sidekick, she might see stars from Trisha's fists.

Amnesty "The Cobra"Cortner (Las Vegas, USA) v. Jacqueline Andrade (San Francisco, USA)
A sharp right hand and solid right kick is what Amnesty plans to use during her fight debut. With all her weapons shooting out like pistons, Amnesty will surely charge forward to bring down her opponent. Her solid punch combos and forward fighting motion can keep an opponent off-balance and defensive for the entire fight. However, she will have to dodge the quick grab-and-knee attack from Jacqueline. Another fighter hailing from the Fairtex Gym, Jacqueline has more experience and can knock a fighter down with a gut-wrenching knee to the midsection. This bout will be a battle of strength between fists and knees.

Yvonne Glines (Las Vegas, USA) v. Molly Hucbscher (Minnesota)
Yvonne Glines's tough ring style is a culmination of the endless store of techniques and combos that she possesses. Her fight debut will be a showcase of those quick and powerful combos that she loves. Although Molly has fought in the ring before, it will be tough to overcome Yvonne's quickness. There is talk that this fight won't go the distance.

Ardra Hernandez (Las Vegas,USA) v. Beth Westover (Idaho, USA)
Ardra's quickness at launching counterattacks mixed with her Mexican fighting spirit makes for a very tough fighter. She only knows how to fight forward, and will never be seen on her heels. Beth will have to answer her charging attacks with a barrage of strong punches and kicks. A slight edge with fight experience might bring Beth over the top, but only if she can hold off Ardra's assaults.

Rachel Duangsima (Las Vegas, USA) v. Camie Escobar (Utah, USA)
A natural southpaw, a master at ring movement, and a great roundhouse kick that can be felt by even the strongest opponents are a few of the characteristics of Master Toddy's newest fighter, Rachel. Armed with attacks learned from Master Chan, a trainer specializing in southpaw techniques, Rachel will have to continually attack and defend against Utah's Camie Escobar. Not to be outdone, Camie hails from the famed Utah training gym of Sakasem Fairtex. Camie has her own strong offensive weapons that she is eager to show to Rachel.

Patti Teran (San Francisco, USA) v. Naveen Contreras (Fresno, USA)
A revenge match is scheduled for the evening as the smart and cunning Patti Teran of World Team USA plans to avenge her earlier loss to Naveen Contreras of Fresno, California. Patti's whipping roundhouse kick and lightning punches are a few of the weapons that she has been working on while training at Master Toddy's Lionheart Camp in Las Vegas. This bout of the evening will show whether Patti can overcome Naveen's powerful techniques that won her the championship belt last year.

Natalie Fuz (New York, USA) v. Staci Carsten (Utah)
Coming from a disappointing event where she traveled all the way to Las Vegas last September only to have her opponent fail to show, Natalie has a host of weapons and attacks that she is eager to finally use in the ring. She will be able to test her skills against Staci Carsten who will bring her own punishing moves to send Natalie back to New York. This high-powered bout will have one fighter eager to unleash her skills and another waiting to pound her opponent back to where she came from.

Vanessa Hale (Las Vegas, USA) v. Misti Hurst (Canada)
A technician skilled at launching effective attacks, Vanessa Hale can methodically break down an opponent's defense. With perfectly executed roundkicks in her arsenal, Vanessa's opponent must use her technique and fighting spirit to enter the ring with this lioness. Misti Hurst is more than ready to answer Vanessa's assaults with her technical prowess in the ring.

Please turn out and support this show,

Thanks,

Dan

PS: www.womenkickboxing.com is switching servers and may be down as long as 72 hours. I have some great pics of master Toddy's girls, but don;t know how to post them. somebody tell me how, and I'll put em up.do you just copy and paste them into the message?

103450 : i hope this works

Tuffgrrl
Posted: 2003-02-01 01:37:33

Women Muay Thai Fight Night Part I


(thanks to http://www.womenkickboxing.com
for the info!)


Friday, February 7th, 2003

Stardust Hotel & Casino, Las Vegas, Nevada USA

Tickets : $30, $60, and $100

Doors open at 6:30


2003 will introduce the USA to a year of Muay Thai action as Master Toddy
embarks on his biggest promotional drive yet. Beginning with February's
all-female fight card, every other month is slated to bring the best Muay
Thai fighters to Las Vegas. These events are sure to draw the crowd to
its feet.


A tremendous success in England, Master Toddy aims to capture lightning
in a bottle once again as the battle of the best female Muay Thai fighters
comes to the first of three thunderous match-ups under the lights of the
Stardust Hotel. There fighters from USA, Canada and England will face
their opponents who are determined to be crowned the reigning Warrior-Queens
of the ring.


Making their fight debuts this February, the newest members of Master
Toddy's fighting team are prepared for the best. These women possess the
skills to make their mark in the championship ring. All share the fierce
determination that is a characteristic of Master Toddy's fighters. Their
fighting techniques are numerous and diverse, just like the cheering crowd
that will accompany them to the Stardust Hotel. The bouts are scheduled
as follows:










Tasha Marzolla

Tasha Marzolla (Las Vegas, USA)
vs.



Nina Magsamen
(Minnesota)



Tasha is a 5-time Playboy magazine model appearing on the cover numerous
times in one year. Beautiful and deadly, Tasha's day job masks the power
and offensive weapons that she unleashes in the ring. Her powerful front
kick helps keep opponents away from pounding at her face. This weapon
will surely be needed as Tasha faces Minnesota's own Nina Magsamen. A
master at finding the weak points of any fighter, Nina will surely aim
to keep Tasha off the cover of any magazine soon. Her flashing fist combos
will be set on one target. Although Nina has more ring experience than
her, Tasha has the energy of the hometown crowd behind her. If this fight
goes the distance, Tasha can emerge as the victor.










Celina Cruz

Celina Cruz (Las Vegas, USA)
vs.

Michele Roseanne Elizabetn Grizzle
(England)

Coming fresh off the heels of her impressive victory at the Orleans Hotel
last September, Celina Cruz is set on starting the year off with a winning
streak. Armed with her favorite piercing front kicks to the face, Celina
is out to show that youth combined with heart and skill can be a deadly
mix. She is ready to face her overseas opponent.

Michele Grizzle is an undefeated fighter in her home country of England.
In order to accept the fight against Celina, she certainly did her homework.
She is ready to defend against any kick Celina throws at her with her
own fast combos. Michele won't let Celina get any bonus from kicking her
in the face. This bout will be a show of the art of Muay Thai at its best.










Linda Loyce

Linda Loyce (San Francisco, USA)
vs.

"Killer" Kate Meehan (Denver, USA)



Linda Loyce is a well-known fighter from the famed Fairtex Gym in San
Francisco, California. A product of champion-trainer Ganyao, Linda has
fought some of the best Muay Thai technicians. Her power and speed emerges
in her own mastery of Muay Thai attacks. This time she will be facing
a different challenge.

"Killer" Kate Meehan of Denver, Colorado, is a champion kickboxer
who has fought under Muay Thai rules before. She is fast, nimble, and
showcases different techniques during the fight. It will be interesting
to see how Kate handles the Muay Thai offense thrown at her from Linda,
while Linda will surely be seeing a new approach to how Muay Thai can
be mixed with kickboxing in the ring.










Keri Crothers

Keri "The Crusher"
Crothers
(Canada)
vs. Trisha Hill

Trisha "TNT" Hill
(Georgia, USA)

This bout will be a clash of champions as the two countries bring out
the best of Muay Thai to Las Vegas. The championship belts between the
two of these fighters would decorate the entire ring if it was still left
standing after their match. This battle promises to be one of the biggest
fights of the evening.

Returning to the Las Vegas ring after a hard-fought match in China and
a karate championship in Canada, Keri "The Crusher" Crothers
is ready to face any challenger. Already stepping up to the likes of champions
such as Angela Rivera, Keri has proven that she will back down from no
one. She will be facing a tough opponent in Georgia's Trisha "TNT"
Hill. With Trisha's tremendous punching and kicking power and Keri's height
and speed, one of these fighters may feel closer to the mat than she would
like. Trisha is known for her hammer-like spinning backfist, but she will
have to find Keri first. If Keri misses with her pounding sidekick, she
might see stars from Trisha's fists.










Amnesty Cortner

Amnesty "The Cobra" Cortner (Las Vegas, USA)
vs.

Jacqueline Andrade
(San Francisco, USA)



A sharp right hand and solid right kick is what Amnesty plans to use during
her fight debut. With all her weapons shooting out like pistons, Amnesty
will surely charge forward to bring down her opponent. Her solid punch
combos and forward fighting motion can keep an opponent off-balance and
defensive for the entire fight. However, she will have to dodge the quick
grab-and-knee attack from Jacqueline. Another fighter hailing from the
Fairtex Gym, Jacqueline has more experience and can knock a fighter down
with a gut-wrenching knee to the midsection. This bout will be a battle
of strength between fists and knees.










Yvonne Glines

Yvonne Glines (Las Vegas, USA)
vs. Molly Hucbscher (Minnesota)



Yvonne Glines's tough ring style is a culmination of the endless store
of techniques and combos that she possesses. Her fight debut will be a
showcase of those quick and powerful combos that she loves. Although Molly
has fought in the ring before, it will be tough to overcome Yvonne's quickness.
There is talk that this fight won't go the distance.










Ardra Hernandez

Ardra Hernandez (Las Vegas,USA)
vs.

Beth Westover (Idaho, USA)



Ardra's quickness at launching counterattacks mixed with her Mexican fighting
spirit makes for a very tough fighter. She only knows how to fight forward,
and will never be seen on her heels. Beth will have to answer her charging
attacks with a barrage of strong punches and kicks. A slight edge with
fight experience might bring Beth over the top, but only if she can hold
off Ardra's assaults.










Rachel Duangsima

Rachel Duangsima (Las Vegas, USA)
vs. Camie Escobar

Camie Escobar (Utah, USA)



A natural southpaw, a master at ring movement, and a great roundhouse
kick that can be felt by even the strongest opponents are a few of the
characteristics of Master Toddy's newest fighter, Rachel. Armed with attacks
learned from Master Chan, a trainer specializing in southpaw techniques,
Rachel will have to continually attack and defend against Utah's Camie
Escobar. Not to be outdone, Camie hails from the famed Utah training gym
of Sakasem Fairtex. Camie has her own strong offensive weapons that she
is eager to show to Rachel.










Patti Teran

Patti Teran (San Francisco, USA)
vs. Naveen Contreras

Naveen Contreras (Fresno, USA)



A revenge match is scheduled for the evening as the smart and cunning
Patti Teran of World Team USA plans to avenge her earlier loss to Naveen
Contreras of Fresno, California. Patti's whipping roundhouse kick and
lightning punches are a few of the weapons that she has been working on
while training at Master Toddy's Lionheart Camp in Las Vegas. This bout
of the evening will show whether Patti can overcome Naveen's powerful
techniques that won her the championship belt last year.










Natalie Fuz

Natalie Fuz (New York, USA)
vs. Staci Carsten

Staci Carsten (Utah)



Coming from a disappointing event where she traveled all the way to Las
Vegas last September only to have her opponent fail to show, Natalie has
a host of weapons and attacks that she is eager to finally use in the
ring. She will be able to test her skills against Staci Carsten who will
bring her own punishing moves to send Natalie back to New York. This high-powered
bout will have one fighter eager to unleash her skills and another waiting
to pound her opponent back to where she came from.












Vanessa Hale (Las Vegas, USA)
vs.

Misti Hurst (Canada)



A technician skilled at launching effective attacks, Vanessa Hale can
methodically break down an opponent's defense. With perfectly executed
roundkicks in her arsenal, Vanessa's opponent must use her technique and
fighting spirit to enter the ring with this lioness. Misti Hurst is more
than ready to answer Vanessa's assaults with her technical prowess in
the ring


 


Kieran The Boy
Posted: 2003-02-01 12:39:00
Where ever is that gym in Las Vegas? wouldnt we all like to know!!!!!
PJ Reilly
Posted: 2003-02-01 13:11:01
Watch out for Killer Katie Meehan. I saw her fight last month and she is freakin relentless. Should be a good show.
103514 : CELINA CRUZ v MICHELLE - England U.K.

Sandy Holt
Posted: 2003-02-02 12:53:54
please can you tell me how many fights Celina has had?
103549 : Celina Cruz

dan
Posted: 2003-02-02 16:55:22
Hi Sandy, Celina is 1-0. her win coming by tko. She is young (16) and quite energetic. should be a great show.

You can see all the master Toddy Girls' profiles on my site at http://www.womenkickboxing.com/profiles.htm

Please e-mail me when you have some time. I would like to get some updated info on some UK fighters.

thanks,

dan

103556 : cheers !! and NO probs !

Sandy Holt
Posted: 2003-02-02 18:43:33
I saw Michelles DEBUT !
it was a DRAW and her FIRST and only FIGHT too !
She fought a MUCH more experienced girl with about 6 fights ! So the result was GREAT ! And i know Michelle ! She is a really nice girl and personality ! And trains with the able Master "A" ( master Toddys brother BTW ) from manchester!
i THINK IT WILL MAKE A GREAT FIGHT ! are YOU GOING TO BE THERE?
and YES PLEASE ALSO E-MAIL ME IF I CAN HELP ? YOU know I WILL ! CHEERS
sandy man holt
Brian Ritchie
Posted: 2003-02-06 23:08:59
Ok, I copied the lineup and made links to Dan's website...womenkickboxing.com

Tasha Marzolla (Las Vegas, USA) vs. Nina Magsamen (Minnesota)
Celina Cruz (Las Vegas, USA) vs. Michele Roseanne Elizabetn Grizzle (England)
Linda Loyce (San Francisco, USA) vs. "Killer" Kate Meehan (Denver, USA)
Keri "The Crusher" Crothers (Canada) vs. Trisha "TNT" Hill (Georgia, USA)
Amnesty "The Cobra" Cortner (Las Vegas, USA) vs. Jacqueline Andrade (San Francisco, USA)
Yvonne Glines (Las Vegas, USA) vs. Molly Hucbscher (Minnesota)
Ardra Hernandez (Las Vegas,USA) vs. Beth Westover (Idaho, USA)
Rachel Duangsima (Las Vegas, USA) vs. Camie Escobar (Utah, USA)
Patti Teran (San Francisco, USA) vs. Naveen Contreras (Fresno, USA)
Natalie Fuz (New York, USA) vs. Staci Carsten (Utah)
Vanessa Hale (Las Vegas, USA) vs. Misti Hurst (Canada)
lee
Posted: 2003-02-07 06:05:21
those links arent working bri
lee
Posted: 2003-02-07 06:08:35
sorry,
the first one i tried didnt work
others did though
lee
Posted: 2003-02-07 06:22:59
those women must have really good defences because most of them are mint.
They dont look like they've ever been punched in the face

DAMN FINE!!!
104330 : MIGHTY FINE !!!

Sandy Holt
Posted: 2003-02-07 14:22:23
104349 : Video?

xman
Posted: 2003-02-07 15:00:15
Will there be a video for sale?
ADAM ATMCGLDTR
Posted: 2003-02-08 12:38:17
Results? photo's? Anybody?
104581 : yes PLEASE ! results ? thanks !

Sandy Holt
Posted: 2003-02-09 14:02:10
104680 : Results anyone?

Tuffgrrl
Posted: 2003-02-09 18:47:14
Check out Dan's page: http://www.womenkickboxing.com for the results.
ADAM ATMCGLDTR
Posted: 2003-02-09 21:35:17
Thank Tuffgrrl
ADAM ATMCGLDTR
Posted: 2003-02-09 21:38:10
Why didn't the Keri Crothers V Trisha Hill fight happen? What a bummer ! Was it a Setup just to bring inn the crowd?
dan
Posted: 2003-02-10 00:07:49


Adam, go to the womenkickboxing.com message board and read what happened.

from Trisha's viewpoint and some others.

I had rather not try to explain it. I wasn't there, and I dont want to be unfair to anyone.

direct url is http://pub7.bravenet.com/forum/show.php?usernum=587721256&cpv=1


or go to www.womenkickboxing.com and click on "forum".


dan
melchor menor
Posted: 2003-02-10 01:18:04
my wife Marlowe and I just came back from Vegas to see that show. It was overall a good promotion to push women in Muay Thai sport. We were dissappointed that Kerri and Trisha's fight did not happen (the main reason we went to see the show).
the majority crowd however was defintely not your normal kickboxing fight fan. there were huge billboards on the freeway advertising the show that was showcasing a huge picture of the Playboy fighter.

i was personally impressed with Master Chan's wife, Rachel, who fought with awesome technique and power in her hands and as well as her legs. she was a southpaw as well!

none of the other bouts really got my attention. I liked Kate Meehan's ferocity, and to Tasha's credit, she had the Tiger's heart.

Mel
dan
Posted: 2003-02-10 02:09:39
the majority crowd however was defintely not your normal kickboxing fight fan. there were huge billboards on the freeway advertising the show that was showcasing a huge picture of the Playboy fighter.


============ Hi Mel, I know I am going to catch hell for saying this, but that seems to be the recipe that female boxing promoters use to attract new
fans. Sex appeal sells. Mia St John, Elena "baby doll" Reid, to name a few, have actually attracted people to that sport, because they are drop dead gorgeous. And some "fans" who came mainly to see the eye candy, end up becoming fans of the sport itself. That is, Once they begin to realize women in traditionally mens' sports are actually normal looking females, as opposed to some butchy women with a hard and angry appearance.
But, now female boxing is starting to accumulate some really androgynous looking women with the mannish haircuts and wearing the almost below the knee length baggy shorts,trying to look like some of the male boxers.
And if that look proliferates, female boxing could diminish in popularity. Meanwhile in women's Muay Thai the women often look more feminine, and are just as tough-if not more so, in particular with the knees, elbows, etc. and the higher ko ratio that goes with that. So womens' Muay Thai and kickboxing is beginning to attract the attention of some of those female boxing fans.

Women should be judged on their abilities, not their looks. But, so should everyone. BUT we all know that isn't the case in life. people in entertainment, or sports are public performers/entertainers. And men are 80% of the fans at female fights. So, if they are interested in seeing females fight-You know they want to see women who are not even slightly androgynous looking.
Of course there's a happy medium here, but sometimes it doesn't hurt (in the early stages of growth) to push the envelope with your marketing. And who knows maybe some of those foxy looking chicks wil turn out to have real fighting potential. Master Toddy seems to understand that concept-very well. I think the event was probably good for women's Kickboxing and Muay Thai, despite the cancelled fight with Keri and Trisha.
.
Anyway, Thanks for the insights on the fighters. I like Kate Meehan also. I wish I could have seen the others. Especially Trisha and Keri. They were both very disappointed with the unexpected turn of events. Those two will eventually meet. sooner than later.

I Hope to see Marlowe in action a lot in 2003. she is a damn good fighter, has charisma, and attractive which is a great combination of attributes for promoters looking for female fighters.=============

Dan



ADAM ATMCGLDTR
Posted: 2003-02-10 03:55:10
Thanks dan,

Love the website as well as your input. Keep up the good work and your right about Marlowe. I used to train with Mel. Marlowe was so strong we had to make her spar the men just to get some good work. Here is a pic. Take care.
104749 : Marlowe

ADAM ATMCGLDTR
Posted: 2003-02-10 03:59:09

She shoulda been on the show
dan
Posted: 2003-02-11 01:34:22
Wow thanks! What a punch!

In the picture, look at ringside, between Marlowe's legs in that picture, and and check out the guy (ringside seat on your left) looking straight up at her-he seems awed.
(don't blame him)

dan
ADAM ATMCGLDTR
Posted: 2003-02-11 09:24:59
Yeah , your right....WOW! she has that effect on people. Mel is doing wonders with her.We bought the pic from John Mcphail(The Flame) who goes to alot of the shows. Gota give hem credit for that awesome shot.
xman
Posted: 2003-02-11 11:21:51
"check out the guy (ringside seat on your left) looking straight up"

That looks like Dean from the state athletic commission!
PJ Reilly
Posted: 2003-02-11 14:47:38
Isn't Linda Loyce a pro? I saw her fight Angela Parr on an ISKA show a while back.
dan
Posted: 2003-02-11 18:54:27


Th distinction between pro and amteur seems illusory in women's KB.
I have seen "pros" fight amateurs.

think about this.

a person can have 20-25 amateur fights before they buy a license from the state athletic commissions and then 'offically" turn pro.

OR alternatively, a fighter can have NO amateur experience, purchase the same license from the state athletic commissionand also be be a "pro"

so it often happens that you have a fighter with 15-20 fights making her "pro debut" and thus she is introduced to the fans as having a record of 0 wins and 0 losses. Yet, she may be fighting a person who has NO amatuer expereince but whoo may have fought two or three times as a "pro". So she is introduced as having 3 wins 0 losses. Who does everyone expect to be the favorite? the one who is presented to them as as having a professional record of 3 wins and o losses. or maybe even 2 wins against 1 loss.

Then, the "0-0" fighter tkos the one we think is the more expereinced (3-0) fighter, and everyone says, what an amazing performance for a debut fighter!!

as someone on this board observed, the difference between an amateur and a professional is one wears a head gear the other does not.

To answer the question, both Loyce and Rivera-Parr were amateurs when they fought. Linda Is still an amateur, but Angela I think is pro.

when Angela turned "pro" is confusing. when she fought Nava?

Is an amature somewhat who has fought against pro? no, it is when they buy a state license and fill out the paperwork, and procur a federal id.

Jacqui Nava has NEVER been an amateur because they don't have amateur status in Mexico or lots of other countries. So the first time she ever stepped into a ring she was a "professional".

This is why the WIBA rates women Muay Thai and Kickboxers based on the number of fights they have actualy had period-when evaluating their experience,and whether or not to rank them.

whether they choose to buy a license and turn pro can be made, the day of the schedued fight in some states. in some others a few days before to get a physical and blood work. it varies.

suffice it to say, The amateur vs pro label is not very useful when predicting which fighter is the more accomplished and experienced. In fact it is often downright deceptive. And can lead to horrendous mismatches.


dan
melchor menor
Posted: 2003-02-13 01:00:26
Dan

hi. i'm very impressed with your knowledge in this sport. seems like you've been around for a very long time. your comments and statements that i have read in the past on this message board is pretty much right on.

i've been told by many great people that one of the greatest things you can pass on to others is knowledge. you're doing a great job of giving good information to those who don't understand much about this sport.

hopefully Marlowe will have a good year this time. when she's confirmed for a fight, she trains harder than most professional fighters that i have met.(and i'm not saying this just cuz she's my wife.) she is one of the most dedicated and best disciplined student i know.

marlowe is to fight mid March at a local show here in San Diego.

hope all is well....................................Mel
ADAM ATMCGLDTR
Posted: 2003-02-13 02:08:31
Hey Mel, Didnt I say that to ya once? Does that mean I'm great? LOL.....
I know, I know. Only in my head. Check your E-mail.(for once)
dan
Posted: 2003-02-13 08:29:27
hi. i'm very impressed with your knowledge in this sport. seems like you've been around for a very long time. your comments and statements that i have read in the past on this message board is pretty much right on.

========Thanks for the kind words Mel. I have been around a long time. Where does the time go? I will be 60 on March 22. I last fought in the late 70's in Japan. We did not have Thai boxing in America then, althought i believe it reached the UK in the early seventies. Or if we did, I certainly was unaware. I remember just "full contact karate" (idolized Bill Wallace, Bob "Thunder" Thurman, Howard Jackson, my home town boy, Joe Corley etc ) I took up and competed a few times in full contact karate at age 28 after 16 years in sport judo, and TKD. (a little late to really excel-too stiff by then)
Then, I went to Japan to really hone my Judo skills , and visit the Kodakan, etc. I really love the country the people and the culture. I took the TKD, the full contact karate and the judo to Japan, where they liked to have these precursors of MMA. They would call them "handicap" or "special challenge" matches. (They actually weren't really supposed to even practice martial arts before 1975 according to the ridiculous armistice terms) But, we still had small events, contests, etc, like judo vs karate, and all types of variations. I suppose it was really closer to shoot boxing than anything. punching, throwing and yes, even knees, sometimes. no one had heard of Gracie (of course) or Vale Tudo. at least not by that name. Athough they certainly had a form of Ju Jitsu which was actually what I called Judo with a mean streak. (ie self defense applications of the sport.) So we had judo vs karate, boxing vs wrestling, and all possible variations of those.
And that continues to some extent there until this very day,. They will even have women's wrestling on the same card with a legit women's Muay Thai match, then an MMA followed by another fake wrestling match. or a big girl vs a smaller one with the big one wearing 16 oz gloves and the small one fighting with anything from normal sized gloves to almost bare knuckles(basically little more than handwraps)if the size disparity was really great- and the crowds love it all. the real and the fake. (show) Funny, in America it is totally different consitituences. etc. Biggest regret: I wish I had made the effort to really learn the languge then, instead of waiting so many years. ========


.
i've been told by many great people that one of the greatest things you can pass on to others is knowledge. you're doing a great job of giving good information to those who don't understand much about this sport.

======thanks. Those who can, perform. Those who can't, teach. we need both. Most of what I learned was the hard way-because i was really bad about not listening to people who were older, wiser and smarter.. or learning from OTHER people's mistakes. I used to think old people were clueless.I still teach a judo class to underprivileged boys once a week.
I am pretty much in awe of the fighters today. they seem to be so much better-maybe there are just so many more participating today, and everyone has pooled their knowledge-and you have places like AX where people come together and share their experiences-and so everyone knows more today. I just collect it all, catologue it and try to remind people of what they often actually already know but maybe forgot. ==========


hopefully Marlowe will have a good year this time. when she's confirmed for a fight, she trains harder than most professional fighters that i have met.(and i'm not saying this just cuz she's my wife.) she is one of the most dedicated and best disciplined student i know.

=======I believe she will. In all labor there is profit. and training is LABOR. Hard Labor.I think the women's side of the sport is waking up. In fact I see it getting really big in a couple of years.They put on great show,with a unique style, and everyone who sees them becomes a fan.

This is for everyone-I really like to hear a man compliment his wife. It is an investment in another human being. A very significant other human being. A man who respects and honors his wife can't possibly out give her. Women love to be noticed, appreciated, and to hear it verbalized. often. If you give her that, she will do you good all your life. I wish I had learned that earlier in life... ==========


marlowe is to fight mid March at a local show here in San Diego.

====keep me informed on that, and best of luck.======

dan
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105800 : GREAT WORDS and wisdom ! THANKS for sharing DAN !

Sandy Holt
Posted: 2003-02-15 21:14:14
I bet you wouldnt swop ALL your memories for ANYTHING ! GOOD on ya !! :))))
Cheers
stay well !
cheers
sandy man holt
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