make San Shou legal in NYS

you can go here to protest how the new law makes San Shou illegal
http://www.petitiononline.com/sanshou/petition.html

sign the petition and we can later on hand deliver it to the NYSAC

lkfmdc:.....I am waiting for the picture from Matt!

wait as long as you want, but if you want to do somethign useful, sign the petition

Hey David, dont take that attitude with me, I was pointing out that you are usually haunted by trolls, if I wanted to hear that sort sarcasm I would have had a chat with my ex!

Oh Yeah, by the way, I had already signed your petition!

I guess it was just I was running out the door (now I am in my gym, before was in my office)

sorry mate :)

I have an ex also, so I really am sorry!!!!

Haha! No worrys, you will have to do better than that to fall out with me!

I am for making all of the Kickboxing styles legal in NYS as it was and should be. We should have A choice to sanction with qalified organizations especially those who work regurly with other boxing commissions.

Sanhou

Full Contact kickboxing

Low kick Kickboxing

May Thai

Tommy,

In a perfect world, we wouldn't have to deal with this at all, we would do things like we had been successfully and safely doing them for years before this issue even started. But we live with the cards they deal us sadly.

As you are in duscussions with a certain group, we are working our end. We think our end has a certain angle which may work, especially as states tend to not want to make illegal possible Olympic sports, CA got in trouble trying to stop a Judo competition for example.

Is it perfect? No, but as we have doubts that even your body would let us do OUR sport, we have to proceed.

It would be nice if you also signed this, it wouldn't hurt your other cause at all

David, I signed the petition.

I have a question. I bet a lot of others are also unfamilar with the current state of the law in NY.

So, if you could let us all know, Just which combat sports are legal in new york other than straight boxing? Like what about Muay Thai? Leg kicks? or is it just full contact KB that is legal??

I really suspect the boxing folks are behind a lot of these BS restrictions.

I know they (pro boxing interests) tried to kill NHB in Hawaii.(I believe we had already had a conversation about that, which i don't want to revisit)

Anyway, why have they made San Shou illegal? is it becasue throws are permitted, and they consider that to be a form of nhb"?

thank you,

dan

My point is the same as before, they should have just left everything alone, and let the sport continue like it was. Every safety measure promoters took for the fighters was fine. Everything was fine until the NYS athletic commission ruined everything.. They should just stick to boxing where the money was better.

I signed the petition. Anything to help the cause!!

I SIGNED.....I SIGNED!!!

There is a list of 12 organizations, how they came up with the list, even they claim they do not know! But if you aren't sanctioned by one of the groups on the list, you are ILLEGAL, so it's made almost everything illegal! It's the most stupid thing you could imagine. Pretty much the only things on the list are Judo, Taekwondo and sport (point) karate.

There are TONS of problems with the current situation, for example, USTU Taekwondo is LEGAL, but AAU Taekwondo isn't. They are the same sport, same rules, same format, same insurance, etc so basicly the law is enforcing a monopoly for the USTU.

A friend just pointed out last night that the IOC and USOC recognize a certain sport karate group, NAKO I believe, and it is NOT on the list, thus it's illegal too, so they are gonna call the USOC.

Thanks to those who have signed, no thanks to the trolls who tried to undermine the list, here's some additional background info

Kickboxing Under Attack In New York
THE KICKBOXING CORRESPONDENCE by Eddie Goldman

Kickboxing is in big trouble in New York, and apparently in no small part because of the new attitude of the scandal-plagued New York State Athletic Commission. We have been writing for some time now about the outrageous activities of the New York State Liquor Authority in closing down several kickboxing shows. Many of us also wanted to find out the official attitude of the New York State Athletic Commission to this. An e-mail was sent from a kickboxing promoter to Raymond Locascio of the New York commission. Locascio, it should be noted, has since left the commission, but was still on it when he sent a response, dated Sept. 17. Here is what he wrote, spelling errors and all:

From: "Raymond Locascio: RLocasci@dos.state.ny.us
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 12:39 PM
Subject: clarification
Pursuant to your e-mail , the New York State Athletic Commission does not regulate and ha no authority over martial arts competion in New York State.
Kickboxing is considered a martial arts and the Commission does not have and control over these type of competion.

This seemed like good news, but I then wrote Locascio asking for more information and clarifications. This was sent directly to Raymond Locascio's e-mail address listed above. The commission is part of the Dept. of State, hence the domain name.
I did not receive a reply from Locascio. Instead, the following reply arrived on Oct. 1 from Hugo B. Spindola, General Counsel for the New York State Athletic Commission. As you will see, it indicates a new and patently absurd extension of the definition of the illegal "combative sports" to kickboxing. Here it is, spelling and punctuation errors intact:

Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 13:02:11 -0400
From: "Hugo Spindola" HSpindol@dos.state.ny.us
To: knockoutradio@yahoo.com
Subject: Kickboxing
Dear Mr. Goldman:
The New York State Athletic Commission is in receipt of your email dated September 19, 2002, regarding kickboxing. In order to answer your question one must look at the section of the law in New York State which covers "combative sports." The relevant section - Section 8905-a of the Unconsolidated Laws - defines combative sports as "any professional match or exhibition other than boxing, sparring, wrestling or martial arts...the term 'martial arts' shall include any professional match or exhibition sanctioned by any of the following organizations: U.S. Judo Association, U.S. Judo, Inc., U.S. Judo Federation, U.S. Tae Kwon Do Union, North American Sport Karate Association, U.S.A. Karate Foundation, U.S. Karate, Inc., World Karate Association, Professional Karate Association, Karate International, International Kenpo Association, or World Wide Kenpo Association."
Although I do not have any personal knowledge as to the specific organizers who have had their shows "closed down", I will note that their events were probably not sanctioned by any of the above listed governing bodies. As such, they would then fall into the "combative sports" definition.
I hope this response fulfills your previous request.
Very truly yours,
Hugo B. Spindola
General Counsel
New York State Athletic Comission
123 William Street - 20th Floor
New York, New York 10038
(212) 417-5700

Here was my reply to Mr. Spindola:

Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 12:10:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Eddie Goldman" knockoutradio@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Kickboxing
To: "Hugo Spindola" HSpindol@dos.state.ny.us
Thank you for your reply. You did not include the entire paragraph which you quoted. The part which you deleted reads:
The commission is authorized to promulgate regulations which would establish a process to allow for the inclusion or removal of martial arts organizations from the above list. Such process shall include but not be limited to consideration of the following factors:
(a) is the organization`s primary purpose to provide instruction in self defense techniques;
(b) does the organization require the use of hand, feet and groin protection during any competition or bout; and
(c) does the organization have an established set of rules that require the immediate termination of any competition or bout when any participant has received severe punishment or is in danger of suffering serious physical injury.
Thus both the letter and intent of the law is not to limit or restrict sanctioning only to "the above listed governing bodies."
I would thus like to know just what the commission has done in the five years since this law was passed to fulfill its legal obligation to "establish a process to allow for the inclusion or removal of martial arts organizations from the above list." I would like the dates and summaries of all hearings or reports issued on this subject.
If there have been none, as I suspect, then your commission has not fulfilled its obligations under the law. Further, your opinion was not shared by Raymond Locascio, who wrote to a kickboxing promoter on Sept. 17, "that the New York State Athletic Commission does not regulate and ha no authority over martial arts competion in New York State. Kickboxing is considered a martial arts and the Commission does not have and control over these type of competion." (spelling errors left intact)
Mr. Locascio has since left the commission, but your statement means that in the last two weeks, the commission has changed its opinion. Please relay to me what hearings were held for this. Please relay to me what examination of the track record of these promoters you took into account. Please relay to me what medical experts were consulted. Please relay to me what martial arts experts were consulted. Please relay to me what other commissioners in the Association of Boxing Commissions were consulted.
If none of these investigations were undertaken, which I also suspect, I sincerely hope that you will rapidly reconsider your position. If you do not, I would not be surprised if your commission once again becomes the subject of calls for reorganization, as it did following the Floyd Patterson scandal, the Lewis-Holyfield 1 scandal, the Gatti-Gamache weigh-in scandal, the Beethavean Scottland scandal, the Camacho Jr. scandal, and the other lesser scandals with which it is associated.
Sincerely,
Eddie Goldman
"Knockout Radio" on www.Maxboxing.com
Wrestling Editor, Grappling
Columnist, ADCC News and W.I.N.

So as you can see, yet another combat sport is in danger of being exterminated by the New York politicians and their appointees at the athletic commission.

Make your voice heard, and demand that New York join the other top state commissions in legalizing and sanctioning all the combat sports. If you stay silent, you will have plenty of extra time to cry about it later when these politicians close down everything they either do not understand or are not involved with in one way or another.

Its obvious that its not going to happen our way. That's why I've always said from the begining, there are way of getting around everything. They are plenty of kickboxing schools that have boxing rings. Throw a small show. Your not going to make as much money as if you were promoting a big show because you don't want to risk getting caught, but I asure you that they are fighter who are still willing to fight even though this stupid law is in affect. Its just takes alittle more time to plan than usual. And you have to be picky on who you invite because there can be a jealous snich around. I just trying to defend the rights of fighters who train everyday for the sole purpose of competing. Are we going to let these fighters training go to waste. Hey, other people get around the law and get a slap on the wrist. Kickboxing shows have alway followed safety guide line before, we can do it again. Sometime you have to go all out for something you believe in..Forget those 12 sanctioning bodies, just throw the show on the sneek tip..DO IT FOR THE CAUSE!!!

but one has to be concerend about a $10,000 fine and being convicted of a Class E Felony

I never said that there wouldn't be any risks involved. I just hate to see all these fighters who train to fight, put their skills to waste. Alot of fighters I know can't travel out of state to fight do to their jobs...In life, everything has a risk!!

I signed the petition ..

yes, Nicu made himself feel good by trolling a petition to save a form of kickboxing, he signed

"Nicu - San Shoe is just a Muay Thai rip off"

Do you feel like a big man now?

Got to love his pic

NY State Department unclear on their own law:

Representatives of US Wushu Union, one of the major Chinese martial arts bodies in the US, contacted Joshua Toas, the Assistant Secretary of State of New York.

Toas said HIS (important to note that different parts of the NY government have different interpretations of the same law) interpretation was that "professional martial arts bouts" were in which either the participant is specifically paid to compete or in which prize money was awarded. These were under the jurisdiction of the Athletic Commission.

However, he also stated that theoretically, amateurs should NOT fall under this set of laws BUT he admitted that this point needed to be clarified.

Toas gave the US Wushu Union contact info for Hugo Spindola, the Counsel of the Athletic Commission.

Toas is under the (FALSE) impression the NYSAC will then simply add the US Wushu Union onto the list of the 12 sanctioned organizations. As US Wushu Union has not yet spoken to NYSAC, it remains to see what will happen when Spindola refuses to add them to the list, as he has other organizations.

That pic of nicu is LOL cool stuff ROFLMAO :-P

the best part is, Nicu put on here himself, I didn't even have to look for it

Thats funny! I am for all sportsmen to have the ability to compete. I love Muay Thai but that does not mean I am blind and unwilling to compete in other forms ie kickboxing, shootboxing, San Da, MMA. It is a sad situation in New York and I hope that the hard work to put together calls e-mails and letters pays off for the sake of all competitors, promoters and fans!!!!