I haven't looked into the enviromental stuff personally yet to much degree but there are different schools of thought as well.

The typical Chinese farmer land, with which he could feed (I forget the numbers but I think it was 300ish (but pretty sure in hundreds) the typical American farmer claimed they could barely feed thier family.

Right farming practices make all the difference. Animals are condencers. They get around and graze places we can't and condence the food. (they also condence toxins if poorly fed etc) They have way more bang for the buck.

Native Indians being bloody healthy-I have mentioned many times some of the sources . You simply discount. If you would actually like to do some of the research I'll give you them again.

One of the best, not the onlt, is Weston A Price who travelled the world in the early 1900s. He went to Africa, Europe, North and South America, Australia, New Zealand etc etc He looked for a found native groups in each area on thier native diets. He also saw the introduction of modernized foods etc..

He did examinations on the individuals, he took analasis of the foods they ate(including shipping back to have it looked at in great detail, documented thier diets.

Everywhere he went he found native groups and as long as they were on thier native diet they were bloody healthy. (I have shown you some pics which you discount as they don't fit in your belief system instead of looking into it) If you don't want to look into it thats cool but don't question the source without looking IMO)

He looked at the natives that adopted modernized foods. Some moved to the white mansd settlements for work and some it came into thier villages.

He looked at off spring.. three or four for an example before they adopted white mans food and then the one or two after (same family) the differences are F&*^%$*%^ crazy!!

Also examples of identicle twins.. one takes a job on a boat with the white man and one stays home on native diet... visual physical differences, never mind whats going on inside.

EVERYWHERE he went.

An example of health (they were all healthy before introduction of modernized foods)

In Switzerland while he was there (I htink he went more than once I forget) tuberculosis was at near epedemic proportions. In the villages he found with them eating traditional diets it was unheard of. They had no doc or dentist (and didn't need them).

(disease went up to same as white man when modernized foods were adopted)

A doc he met in N America that had worked with the natives for 30 years (if memory serves). He said (amoung other things-and this isn't the only source). Women on native diet had practically no probs giving birth (women don't like to hear this) but as soon as they went on modernized foods they went into long labours (another story but guess how hard that is on the kid??)

Also docs back then would often send sick natives back to thier villages to get better as they new that the native diet (and living) would fix 'em up.

Eskimo women wouldn't even wake up thier husbands to give birth. They'd just pop it out and introduce in the morning when he woke up!!!

One can simply discount what they don't understand or could say 'wow, IF this has truth what could it mean."

A couple other IF you will actually look..

Albert Schweitzer (Gabon Africa 1913)-"I was astonished to encounter no cases of cancer..." -Jordan S. Rubin "The Maker's Diet"

1960s-Vilhjalmur Stefansson "...searched in vain for cases of cancer amoung the Inuit peoples whhile exploring the Arctic" -Disease and Civilization

1930s Weston A Price (who also gives counts of treating patients (one Mum had called the Priest) with nutrition and the results (including x-rays etc) Teachers were blown away by the changes in students (due to Prices nutritionalk imput) He shows compelling evidence of the power of food for criminals and psyc ward...and the changes from them getting proper food.

So as a side effect-no Like I have said much of this before, the FIRST generation to consume modernized foods...bang!!!

Price found 0!! healthy native populations on veg diets

Pottengers work cats shows exactly the same physical changes as Price found with humans when they ate poor quality foods(with people too-did many many things for science and western med). But also temprement.. They properly fed (raw meat and RAW dairy) cats stayed normal and healthy through out the 10year study (he did autopsies too etc). Interestingly the ones fed processed dairy and cooked meat-the femals became agressive and the males passive (interesting when you look around in our world today). But the physical changes in bone density. The changes in shape of the middle third of the face, the suseptibility to disease etc etc were exactly as Price found with native populations eating a modernized diet (reversal of changes going back to native diets too!!!)


The cooked meat and the more the processed milk the quicker they deteriorated. Infact miscarrages, inability to reproduce etc etc got worse and worse. The 4th generation of the cooked meat and highly processed milk group could NOT reproduce!!! the kittens(I think 3rd gen) reintroduced to raw meat and RAW milk took 4 generations to get equally as healthy.

Pottenger saw this with his human patients also.

"Pottengers Cats"

so called civilized (thats what we tell ouselves) peoples certainly didn't eat the same ratios of protein/fat/carbs that the natives all over the world did.

Plants-we all have our belief systems. You don't have to believe me or change yours. However I am saying there are LOADS of studies that show some very interesting things about plants.

We don't think they feel pain or fear but studies show otherwise.

You can choose to look at that and possibly challange a belief or not.

Did I say plants were the same as animals? No I am saying there is much we, thre general public AND researchers don't know. Its pretty cocky to think we know much about life on this planet. But like I said there have been in roads (that get ignored) and very solid studies that show plants react with fear, and pain...

Of course the world is flat or when told its round it might be worth checking into to see if there is that possibility.

EVERY generation has beliefs that the future generations would laugh at.

We know know the world basically is empty space. try telling that to people back in the day.

I'm not saying I am right because of this (or that I am right) I am saying IF one really wants to question, one must look. If one simply wants to discount and hold on to ones beliefs thats cool too. But if you ask me I will share ;)

oh a ref for plants
"The Secret Life Of Plants" forget the authers name and I can't see it on my book shelves..

Also talking to people who work with nutrition (5 specificazlly come to mind who work with sick people to pro/olympic athletes). Thier experience suggests the same.

My personal experience, being brought up and around many veggies and working with others supports this as well.

My experience can't prove anything, but the pieces add up. Including my dads colitis/IBS and its best improvements in years and years (was just about to go in for another op) from starting to eat meat!!!

One problem with studies is most are done with the normal population as a controle. The normal population is NOT healthy by any stretch. Any atempt should pretty much get results compared to them.

veg maybe but vegan-thats just plain scary...(wasn't buddy suppose to be vegan and taking shakes??? were they whey (dairy not vegan-though crap anyway) or soy (crapx2)

IMO and experiences

veg diet can be a great initial detox I've heard-not looked into yet.