EricR writes:

I’m sick and tired going over the same stuff over and over again. All your answers are in this topic Dan.

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Sorry, Eric but there is no answer in this thread to the follwing question:

what evidence do you have that the jury awarded the first fight between soumia and hart, to mary hart based on the statement of the wpkl chairmen that "soumia seemed really young to be a world champion?

and no the the answer is NOT in this thread, or anywhere else on the internet.

and please dont refer us to some Dutch language message board link.

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So please don’t play stupid.


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Eric, ill leave that to you, since that's clearly becoming your domain.



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You have all the facts, and had them for nearly 1 year now.


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Eric, I do have all the facts, and I stated them in this thread- and then you said i "simplified" them and that Alex Boogers has evidence of bias on the part of the jurors.

therefore, I have asked you at least three or four times where the evidence is? But, all I get is more evasion from you. Why are you unable to simply post the evidence here and NOW, that the jury in the first hart vs sounia fight was biased \and prove me wrong?

If you would just do that, the matter will be ended once and for all, and you wont have to be "sick and tired" anymore.

Eric, just show us all the evidence and prove me wrong here and NOW! why cant you do that?? I think its obvious you are fresh out of evidence, so you prefer to play on the natural sympathy people will have a for lovely 18 year old girl who is really not the issue here.

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If you need more, please contact "Nieuwe Revue"magazine in Holland or even get into contact with Kickbox.nl and get Mr. Jansen's comments on this subject.

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Eric, where is the klink to Mr Jansens comments and is there a tranlation into a english?????? I wont hold my breath wating on that one. ;)

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I really am disgusted by the personal attacks on her.

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No, Eric, you couldn't possibly be disgusted by personal attacks on her because the fact is there havent BEEN any personal "attacks" on her.

In fact, the only personal attacks have been by YOU on the integrity of the three jurors.

Eric, This thread is about the wpkl wrongly overturning the discretion fo three judges based on a vcr viewing of the fight.

I'll leave it to others: Has anyone here read any personal attacks on soumia
her in this thread??

I certainly cant find any.

Eric, really...I think you are being way too sensitive.

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( found some of your last few posts regarding her very questionable.

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You must be losing it Eric...i havent posted anything about her at all. its all been about the wpkl decision to overturn a jury's decision based on a vcr replay of the fight.

This isnt about soumia, even though you want it to be. But, you want to make it that becausee you know you havent a leg to stand on in defending that dishonest protest by your friend alex boogers.

thats your real problem, Eric, so you prefer to hide behind the skirts of a 17 year old girl. Well go ahead, but everyone sees right through it.

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"How serious should we take the words of the WIKBA chairman? Does this position carry any weight in the organization, or is he just a clown and can we take his words as those of the village idiot?"


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Eric, If i were careless enough to express my opinion as to who won or should have won a fight that we sanctioned, or if I said one of the fighters "seemed very young to be a world champion", as the wpkl chairman allegedly did, it would still make no difference whatsoever to the judges.
and therefore they SHOULD, and no doubt WOULD, simply ignore such a statement.

That's why this whole protest was transparently dishonest and disingenous from the beginning-and whats so disappointing to me is that you know it.

And I am very disappointed to see you defending something you know to be patently dishonest.

Eric, I'll go further and say that to suggest that the judges would use irrelevant information such as soumia's age to decide who won a fight is insulting to the intelligence of anyone you try to bamboozle with that stuff.

It's frankly ridiculous and you know damn well its ridiculous. And alex boogers knows it too. and that is also the case with Mary vs Soumia.

It doesnt matter what the WPKL chairman said about Soumia's youth. Theres no way that innocuous statement which was actually intended as a compliment to her early success, is a biased statement. But, even if it were, theres no evidence it influenced the judges-and you cant produce any such evidence.
so who are your trying to fool? Yourself?

Too everyone who posted in this thread:

Its really disgraceful that soumia's manager used a slip of the tongue by the WPKL chairman to intimidate the wpkl into overturning her loss to Mary Hart.

Who "really won" the 2 fights between soumia and mary is totally irrelevant
to this thread. ttt.

who "really won" any fight is always a matter of opinion, which is why we have judges-and its why we dont overturn their judgement decisions.

The issue here is should a sanctioning body overturn the jury's decision because some vanquished sorehead alleges a biased statement by someone who wasnt even a judge. LOL! Thats too ridiculous to even consider as a basis for a protest.

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"If there is reasonable doubt (I think the term is) about the integrity of a possible prejudice WIKBA jury. (And I strongly believe in innocent until proven guilty) Is there anyway to protest this jury, so there can be an inquiry? (Whether to clear the judges or dismiss them).
Or does WIKBA prefer to cover up and protect their own? Maybe even scapegoat the person who protested?

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Eric, we have never had a protest of any kind,and you know that. And I like to think the reason is becasue we always do the right thing, and yes we always will support the judgment calls of judges as to who won a fight-even if we dont personally agree. It's written into our rules, that we do not entertain protests for any reason except a misapplication of fight rules.

for example, if the rules are modified thai and someone gets knocked down by an elbow, and the ref wrongly counts them out, we would nullify the decision, declare a no contest, and mandate a rematch. That's the only kind of protests that are ever appropriate: rules violations.

You can also rest assured we would not turn around and give give the decision to the other fighter. Unlike with the wpkl, All WIKBA fights are won in the ring.

So, Thanks for asking. Now you know how it SHOULD be done. :)

To reiterate, We would summarily reject any so called protest of a jury's JUDGEMENT decision as to who won a fight-even if the loser was claiming bias. "Bias" is impossible to prove, becasue its basically a "thought crime" And that thats no basis on which anyone can reasonably sustain a protest.

Again, the remedy for a biased jury is always a rematch in a neutral country.

Eric, hometown decisions happen every day unfortunately; and unlike the benighted wpkl, the WIKBA is wise enough not to try and overturn hometown "bias".

Its impossible to prove.

Thats frankly a silly question, but thats your answer-and by the way, the idea of Soumia being a victim of predjudice from a dutch judge and a Netherlands based sanctioning body is frankly laughable.

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. Not wanting to have an 17 year old with 2 A-class fights to her name as a World Champion doesn’t sound too incredible too belief to me.

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Eric, Then why did they agree to sanction her for a world title fight? You are again defying logic.

They were not biased against her. If they were, they wouldnt have sanctioned her as a challenger.

and besided the judges were from three different countries and they all voted for Hart.

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Maybe it’s me, but I’ve heard stranger things in this sport.

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Eric, I hate to say this, but it really IS you. And I really hate to have such an unpleasant exchange with you, because you are very attached to Soumia emotionally, and I think this has befogged your normally very keen sense of fair play.

But, this is a clear issue of right and wrong, and what's right for our sport; so I cant compromise that for anyone's feelings. Even for a very good friend which I consider you to be.

And I hope this controversy doesnt ruin our friendship, but if it does, well...I have to stand for what is right.

thanks

dan