CUNG LE !?
I'm sorry if anyone takes this wrong, but I heard alot about how good of a fighter Cung Le is. So I took it upon myself to look into that(not making a big deal about it) and I notice that... #1 he fights san shou only...#2 He really doesnt even fight, his whole fight is throws...Now as I understand, in san shou you can kick anywhere, knees etc..I atleast expect to see a kick, punch throw combo vice vesra or whatever. But he's wins the fight throwing a kick here a punch there. So my point is why doesn't he just forget about throwing and do some fighting. because if he just wants to throw than maybe he should fight judo, UFC, or PRIDE...NO DISRESPECT TO SAN SHOU FIGHTERS! But just winning by throws, that makes people who throw their kicks and punches look bad. Well that's my opinion..LIKE I SAID IT NOTHING PERSONAL OR A DISREPECT TO SAN SHOU FIGHTERS..

I've seen Cung throw some kicks and punches...he's just known for his throws.

So you don't like San Shou. That is what you are saying. Nothing wrong with that. You don't have to like San Shou.

It's clear you didn't see him when he won his World Title!
You wouldn't question him after that bout.

He did EVERYTHING and did it VERY WELL.

I've seen Le fight many times, all San Shou except for a couple of Draka fights. I can assure you that he can kick and punch very well. He KO'ed a fighter in a Draka fight a few years ago with a head kick. He also KO'ed Mike Altman with a head kick last year. The last time I saw him fight against Shonie Carter he was'nt able to throw Carter like he does most opponents. Carter is a pretty good grappler and was able to neutralize Le's attempts to throw him. So Le beat him mostly with his striking ability. He has good boxing skills, and has KO ability with his hands as well as his feet. A lot of people want to see him in the UFC, and I think he would do well. But he really wants to promote his sport of San Shou and that is all he will compete in.

Here you go...
Kicking

Here you go...
Punching

Here you go...
Kicking

Here you go...
Jabbing

And a Family Man as well...

And don't forget Rudi!!!

Did we mention Cung can FLIP too...

Read more at;

http://www.ikfkickboxing.com/UnitedCungLe.htm

Oh, we never shared that long Left Hand...

Or go to;

http://www.cungle.com

Don't forget Rudi? Who's that?

IKF Pro Middleweight World Champion, Rudi Ott.
See the bottom of this page to read about his IKF World Title win;

http://www.ikfkickboxing.com/news-current.htm

hey Ricardo do you know who Diesel Noi is ?
If I was going to use your same logic I would say that Diesel Noi makes punchers and kickers look bad because he mainly knees. He is a knee expert and was 6'1" at 147 pounds. he only lost two fights in his entire career and one of those was an exhibtion. I've have one fight of him where he only threw one kick the entire time and for the remainder 4 rounds it was ALL KNEES AND NOTHING ELSE BUT KNEES.

"... #1 he fights san shou only...#2 He really doesnt even fight, his whole fight is throws"

He only fought muay thai #2 his whole fights are mainly throws.

"So my point is why doesn't he just forget about throwing and do some fighting. because if he just wants to throw than maybe he should fight judo"

Why didn't he forget about kneeing and do some fighting. If he just wants to do knees why didn't he join "The Lord of the dance" or some buck dancers.

"But just winning by throws, that makes people who throw their kicks and punches look bad. "

Just winning by knees just makes people who throw their kicks and punches look bad.

I'm just showing you how I view your logic.

troll, troll, troll your boat gently down the stream

Ricardo has posted good topics in the past. I have no reason to think that he is a troll. He even mentions in his post that he doesn't intend to offend anyone.

???

Draka is a group from Russia that held events on the west US coast that had the same rules as San Shou (as far as I know). I think they ended up not paying people...ran out of money...or something. The Draka group no longer exists.

well, putting "FAKE" in capital letters isn't gonna offend is it (insert sarcasm here)... he should choose his words more carefully, not to mention his "argument" is illogical on many points

Exploiting your strengths and an opponents weaknesses is an absolute cornerstone of fighting. If Cung Le is WINNING by throws, why on earth would he want to focus on anything else??? It would be different if he was getting beaten by good kickers/punchers.

When you are punching and kicking with throws it is closer to a real fight than just punching and kicking with hugging knees.

Who ever started this post is showing a tremendous amount of disrespect. I do not like to get involved in these "whos style is best" subjects but to call a fighter like Cung Le a fake or even question his merit is way out of line. This person has so obviously not done his homework. In the Draka he knocked out Manauro Taro in under a minute and ko'ed Andy Swordewell to win the US Shidokan Championships in 1998. In 1997 he he won the world continuos sparring world championships as an amatuer. I could go on but it's ridiculous. Cung Le is one of the top fighters in the world throws or no throws. Everyone is intitled to there own opinion but once you broudcast it then your opinion is up for scrutiny. I train with him and can personally attest to his stand up prowess. If you truly doubt sanshou's striking ability then enter yourself in a tournament or even better your can come down to our gym and find out for yourself, then at least you can make a fair judgement and not insult anyone else or yourself. But do expect do get thrown and do expect it to hurt. Punching, kicking, kneeing, throwing, are all elements of combat why not enjoy them all instead of limiting yourself (open your mind).

UsH!
Rudi Ott

Thank you Brian for being the only one to understand my post. It seems that people just can't take another person opinion. I wonder then why they ar AX members. And thank for acknowledging my posts, It is well appreciated..

Att: Rudi Ott

Maybe I didn't write my post with enough english words or something..But I officially said not to get offended with my opinion...I wasn't isulting Cung Le and I never question his credentials..If you read the post I started carefully from the begining, you would have known that. So obviously you have a problem understanding things.Now, if I wanted to insult somebody, i would have done so, for example, you fought my friend Peter Kaljevic, no matter hao much he wanted to bring the fight like a man..you just threw him, and unfortunately, you get crazy points for cheap throws..And if wanted to be more of an ass---le! I would have mentioned that Peter broke your nose in the fight..Now that would make me a bad person......

So next time Rudi read all Ax topics carefully, and take opinions, critisms, etc. like a man..Because no matter how good a fighter is, there will always be someone who is going to say something negative, its happened to me, its happened to everybody else. Its a part of life..

Once again if my opinion has bothered anybody, " I MEANT NO DISRESPECT AND I APOLOGIZE!"
CUNG LE ... If your out there, I MEANT NO DISRESPECT TO TO YOU AND YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS!"

Rudi: Have a nice day, and just learn how to understand things alittle better..

REAL FIGHTER, OR FAKE?
NO DISRESPECT TO SAN SHOU FIGHTERS????

With words like that, how are we suppose to feel? why not just spit in someones face... Questioning if they are a Fake... ???

Hey Rudi,
It's even more funny when Mr. Extensive research here(ricardo mendez)says;

"So I took it upon myself to look into that (not making a big deal about it) and I notice that... #1 he fights san shou only...#2 He really doesnt even fight, his whole fight is throws..."

It's clear to us all who know you and Cung that this guy knows NOTHING about Cung..Let along his fighting style, skill etc. To top it off, he thinks someone "Understands him"......
Hey Ricardo, I suggest you take a vacation to California and drop in on Cung Le... to do more "Research"... Trust us, it won't be the first time your dropped on the trip...

Ricardo could you please explain to me what do you mean in your first post "REAL FIGHER OR FAKE?"

Regardless of what you want us to beleive when you say that you don't mean to offend or disrespect when you question whether someone is a real or a fake fighter it just sounds disrespectfull.

In my opinion that is similar to saying "no disrespect", spiting in that persons face and then acting surpised when they feel disrespcted because you said "no disrespect".

And you need another thread for this?

ikf got his post in before mine about the "spit in the face"

He just seems uninformed, so that's why people post to inform him. So ricardo, instead of getting into a mud slinging contest, have people countered your arguement, or are you still of the same mind?

oh lord, are you a moron or what? You start off by calling Cung Le a "FAKE" and then wonder why people think you are disrespecting him??

I notice you feel the need to speak for Peter Kaljevic, please DO NOT. You are not doing the man a service. He is a real fighter, doesn't need people like you dragging his name down with your troll behavior.

Asking why San Shou people throw is like asking Muay Thai people why they kick, "hey Muay Thai dudes, don't be ass holes, just box like real men". And picking a fight with Rudi, someone who could crush you, isn't smart behavior either.

reading his post directed at Rudi Ott, he's a moron, and he's dragging Peter Kaljevic down with him

I'm sorry Ricardo...
I have to say that..

"Have a nice day, and just learn how to understand things alittle better.."

can be applied to yourself as well in this case. On your other thread "Cung Le?|" a few people made some very good points concerned your initial post on that thread. I mentioned, on there, that I thought that you weren't a "troll", which I still believe. However, your lack of consideration for what might be offensive is becoming apparent. Like Dreadsen has said...

If you walk up to someone and say "I don't meant to offend you"
but then you proceed to spit in their face...
then you can expect them to be offended anyway, even though you said "I don't mean to offend you"

That makes sense to me.

Att: IKFmdc

Obviously I have to be an english teacher to you..The question was.."CUNG LE, FIGHTER OR FAKE?" Notice first that its a question, not a direct statement to him. Second with that question, that give the chance for other AXers to give their own opinion. Third, don't you ever tell me not to mention Peters name in anything. I've known Peter since I was a young teenager. Anytime I mention Peter on Ax, I'm on the phone telling him what I write. I even tried to find him more fights through Ax. And I know he's great fighter, I've said that many many times on Ax. So do me a favor and writ things you know, I'm closer to Peter than you'll ever know. And last, are you STUPID..? Read things carefully first. I never said Cung Le was a fake, STUPID? People like you can't be martial artist because if you can't even follow a simple direction or alittle critism..than you shouldn't practice at all...And if you want to take that as a disrecpect to you and only you,"THEN IT IS!" WHY DON'T YOU TAKE SOME ADVICE FROM PETER KALJEVIC the USKBA PRO SAN SHOU WORLD CHAMPION..looks like you'll need it!!

TO ALL SAN SHOU FIGHTERS(exept for IKFmdc) "Onc again, I apologize if anyone took my opinion as a direct disrespcet!!!

ok, I moved all of Ricardo's other posts into this thread. KEEP it in this thread. Do NOT create another topic just to discuss this same topic. It's bad enough readint this without having to see it spread out over 2-3 topics. Once again...if you have anything to say about this topic, keep it in this topic.

Brian

Ricardo,
I don't care if you've known Peter Kaljevic since you first fell out of your mother's womb, you are doing him no service. BTW, for someone who acts like they know so much, don't you know I got Peter that fight with Rudi?? You are apparently so informed (insert sarcasm here)

Furthermore, if you know Peter, he always says he is mostly a MMA/grappling guy, so why would he be upset that in a SAN SHOU FIGHT WITH THROWS that he got thrown?? He wouldn't, you are acting childish and stirring a pot that should not even be cooking

As for Peter being the current USKBA champ, well, again you are acting like a MORON since I was one of the judges for that fight numb nuts. But not sure why you bring that up? Has nothing to do with your stupid post here.

Your behavior here definitely qualifies you as a TROLL, so crawl under a bridge already

as for the claim that Rudi only beat Peter with "cheap throws"

move of Rudi fighting Peter

You really got alot of mouth for someone at the other end of a computer. Not to mention you that now my mother involved. as a fighter myself, a person who goes to alot of kickboxing events, my first reaction would be to confront your stupid as, maybe smack you, and then tell you let's take it in the ring to settle this shit. But because I write my opinions on fights in different chat, newsletters,ect.(undermany different names) I can't blow my cover just yet. but just remember that i go to alot of shows, and trust me, if your their, believe I'm there too.
And don't take this as a threat cause i don't threaten anybody.. I believe as a fighter, you don't use your mouth to talk, you use your hands to make your point....

HAVE A NICE DAY IKFmdc...I have no anymosity towards you....I still apologize to any san shou fighter who took this personally...AND HOPEFULLY THIS POST WILL BE OVER BECAUSE I WILL START A NEW POST SOON...
GOOD BYE..

lkfmdc, your love for Sanshou scares me now.

att: ikfmdc
ricardo mendez


If you are a fighter, that's sad, because you act like a 15 year old internet troll.

Me? I am not hiding, EVERYONE knows exactly who I am, I am David Ross of NYKK Gym. If you are a fighter in NYC you have to know who I am because I am at almost every show with fighters... I know without a doubt that Peter knows who I am, as I have said, I have gotten him fights including his match with Rudi

You want to smack me? You can certainly try anytime you'd like. Sure sounds like a "threat" but you've already demonstrated an interesting use of the English language, not to mention a total lack of reading skills

Ricardo,
First off, stop relating IKFmdc posts to IKF by putting IKF in UPPERCASE. Although I know who he is, he is not us here at the IKF. It's just that his gym name happen to be those letters. Regardless, IKFmdc and most everyone here "DO" share the VERY SAME thoughts. I was "RINGSIDE" when Peter and Rudi Ott fought, "DECEMBER 15th, 2001". The fight I was at was sanctioned by the IKF, International Kickboxing Federation and it was for the IKF Pro San Shou Intercontinental Middleweight Title. To read about it, everyone here can visit this page;

http://www.ikfkickboxing.com/UnitedCungLe.htm

Rudi won all 5 rounds, unanimous decision. The judges on this bout were;
Jon Schorle, Susan Thomas Gitlin and Marcos Rosalas. The event referee was Dan Stell.

Now, the odd issue I have to add here is you are noting that PETER KALJEVIC is the USKBA PRO SAN SHOU WORLD CHAMPION. HOWEVEr, the last time I looked, San Shou "DID" and "STILL DOES" include throws. So what are you saying, that Peter won his World Title against someone who wasn't a TRUE San Shou Challenge and when he faced OTT, a GREAT rounded San Shou fighter, that he was destroyed? I CLEARLY remember the bout. This quote from the event article sums it up quite well;

"This fight was clearly the "Rudi Ott Show" as he used nearly every throw in the book scoring often as if Kaljevic never knew a counter."

Now Rudi has his World Title, so since he already defeated Peter, and it wasn't at all close, how can you BRAG about Peter being a "WORLD" Champion in the "EXACT" same style?

However, in looking in the USKBA Rankings (USKBA.com) I only founr Peter to be the USKBA INTERNATIONAL FULL CONTACT Super Middleweight KICKBOXING CHAMPIOn. We didn't see anything about him being a SAN SHOU WORLD CHAMPION.

In addition, we found on the USKBA news page today where Peter just fought another title bout (USKBA, last week) and lost. We're not sure but due to this quote in the article;

"The first three rounds saw Bonenfant kicking and throwing and Kaljevic being tentative"

It could have been a San Shou bout since the word "THROWING" was used.
USKBA called the bout a Super Middleweight International Championship Title. Hopefully Paul from the USKBA can shed some light on what this title is. We've never heard of an "International" title, unless that's their WORLD Title. Peter fought GARY BONENFANT who defeated Peter by unanimous decision.

Maybe Paul from the USKBA can assist us here ast to if Peter holds a USKBA San Shou World Title...

We'll be back...

Mr Fossum/IKF, "Ricardo" has some issues with reading the English language apparently and doesn't know the difference between "l" and in a lower case L and "i" as in a lower case "I", my name is an L and not that it should matter, I am not the Ikf... but that's just the tip of the iceberg with this guy apparently

he starts off by insulting Cung Le by calling him a fake and asking the most illogical of questions, ie why do San Shou fighters use throws? Like DUH, we throw in our sport. He migh as well ask boxers why they use uppercut or ask Thai boxers why they use kicks. His post from the start makes no sense

Then he degenerates into a rant about how Peter Kaljevic was beaten by Rudi. Rudi beat him, as we all know, fair and square and well.

And Peter has never complained about the match, never said he didn't lose, never complained about fighting with throws, as in DUH, if you agree to fight San Shou you throw

oh

Wirun,
Honestly, I don't understand what you mean? This guy starts by insulting Cung Le by calling him a "fake" and saying he doesn't fight, then attacks Rudi Ott and carries on about throwing in San Shou, like complaining that Muay Thai fighters use knees...

Beleive me it's scary, he didn't intend to offend you and others in the first place(except Chung Lee). And some ineffective side knees in too close range deserve complaints.

Wirun,
I don't want to argue with you, but clearly the guy had no logic to his argument, attacking San Shou guys for throwing when that is part of what they do, would you be upset if I said "those Thai guys suck, all they do is knee, be a real man and box"... And Rudi did everything to his friend except hit him with a lead pipe, but again, I am not gonna argue with you

have a nice day

If those Thai guys' knees could do no harm to their opponents I would always agree that they suck. He didn't intend to offend you in the first place, your latest explanation only is enough for him.

just for fun, I tried to gather up the results of most of Cung Le's professional fights. Interesting results when compared to the first post

vs. Dan Garett (KO, body round kick)
vs. Minaro Tauro (KO, round kick to head)
vs. Scott Sheely (TKO, hook and throw result in rsc)
vs. Mike Altman (KO, round kick to head)
vs. Mike Thornwood (sp?) (KO, spin back fist)
vs. Shonnie Carter (decision win)
vs. Laimon Keita (decision win)
vs. Andy Swordewell (KO, hook to head)

8 pro fights, 6 wins by KO or TKO, with STRIKES

I already said that I'm finished with this post. Get on with your life, and let's kill the topic already. There are many other things to discuss on AX. By the way, I know that your real name is David Ross, I already said I know who you are..Anyway like I said, kill it already..
Have a nice day...

attn ricardao
good on you man.. speak your mind i am with you brother. I Know where you are comming at and some people just not understand where you are comming from..

I know you dont mean to offend anyone

abdul

att abdul:

Thanks for understanding..it is well appreciated. As you can see, not all people can think with an open mind...

IKF KICKBOXING, Thank you for spelling my last name right
Its good to see a gentleman that can spell french!!
Thanks for the congrats, on the win ricardo, on that pass thread.
Tell Peter I said hello, anytime if he wants to fight again,
I'll fight thanks have a nice day everyone:)

IKF, This was not a san shou fight, it was at the full contact rules,
I think the article met throwing punches! :)

The Bone...
Not sure of your question... Do you mean cung Le's bout?