Illonka vs Llisa Howarth would love to see this fight happen again every one goes on about Illonka don't get me wrong lovely lady good fighter but no where near in Lisa Howarths class!!
They fought a couple of years ago and they gave it a draw which Lisa should of won and went in with a bad leg.
Snd took the fight on a weeks notice!!
I no Lisa would love this fight to happen.
Anybody gonna get it on??????????????

Dont know much about Lisa but Ilonka is different class so it would take someone extra special on the world stage to beat her.

Believe me - Lisa Howarth is in that class. She has fought (and beaten) some of the biggest names in the game - Kumagai, Kathy Long, Michelle Aboro.
She hasnt been too active lately and if Ilonka had a chance it would be now, but if Lisa was in shape and fight fit .......
Ilonka is a great fighter and you are right - it needs someone extra special to beat her.

I hope Lisa will continue to fight. I saw the tape of the Ilonka fight. And judging from that, Lisa is still a great fighter and a force to be reckoned with, and could do womens kickboxing and Muay Thai a world of good.

But it seems her life is very full and busy now with little time to fight.
A friend has been doing an e-mail interview with lisa for womenkickboxing.com ofr well nigh 7 months now, and it still isn't finished. She is just so busy.

for the record, her fight with Aboro was a draw-at least5 the one I saw ..maybe they fought more than once?? anyway, that simply proves Richard's point: because even being in the ring and equally competitive with Aboro is something few have ever done.

And yes she did beat Kathy Long. One of only two fighters to ever do that. The other being an English fighter named Willa Bell.

As for Aboro, Ilonka was scheduled to fight Aboro sometime ago but Michelle simply could not make the weight. Its a shame. Because having Aboro back would also give the womens' side of the sport a great boost.


dan

Is Ilonka Elmont not in Lisa Howarth her class ???Well,how do you know that,how much time have you seen Ilonka fighting then ?Believe me,Ilonka Elmont is worldclass,there's no doubt about it !!!!

The fight vs. Lisa Howarth is indeed one that deserves a rematch. Must be one the worsed fight i've seen for number of reasons.

Fight started with Lisa being over weight, so the scheduled title fight was cancelled and Ilonka remained Champion. Then Lisa injured herself in the dressing room with her warm up.
On the Dutch side, Ilonka was in a very bad & unconcentrated mood that day. As you can see on the video, she totally ignores her corner and just avoids to go into fight with Lisa, who on her part is protecting her injured leg, and doesn't do much herself during the fight.
In a recent interview Ilonka explained her side of the story which basicly says she was in a big argument with Lucien that day and the week before, and with all bullshitt and bad luck around that fight just couldn't concentrate and focus.

So, yes. I think both camps have very bad memories on that "jinxed" night in "Zonnenhuis", and a rematch would be the best solution to erase this bad memory.
After a short break since her last fight in Curacao, Ilonka is doing very well.
If Lisa Howarth can make the weight this time, a rematch is high on Ilonka´s wish list. See Ilonka´s interview with Dan C aswell on this subject.

Regards,
EricR

Am not disregarding the fact that Illonka isn't good cos she is. She is confident skillful i like the lady.
Lisa Howarth took that fight on a weeks notice cos Mary hart pulled out.
Lisa hadn't fought for over 5 years so Lisa if was training for the fight would obviously made the weight better than she did the first time but she skipped and went in the sauna done everything that was asked of her.
And she injured herself because of what she put her body through in a week to take the fight.
I would like to see these 2 ladie's fight again and hopefully we will get an even better fight than the first which wasn't bad!!
But yes i no Lisa very well and no she is a busy lady but i really think it will happen when i don't no!!

World class yes obviously Illonka is she holds a number of world title's.
But she just isn't in Lisa's class thats all!!!
I have seen Illonka fight many times She is beatan the best of our british girls. Except Lisa.
And i must admit the way lisa houghton fought her was very good.
Illonka had no reply.
I watched that fight on video well done lisa i was impressed with that one. By far your best performance.
You worked out a plan to beat Illonka and that worked!!!!!
I don't want to get personal towards Illonka i just see 2 good lady fighters and i would like to see them fight again!!!!
I have seen Illonka fight mary hart twice, Lisa Howarth, Jussy Lowe, Karen Harding, Michelle Sutcliffe.
I will say that girl will fight anybody.

is mrs howarth still training and fighting intensively ?..

if not, i think that ilonka is still fighting and has developed much...

My moneys on Lisa Howarth ! but as you say ! if she is in training !
I chatted to her after her first match with Illonka ! She said it was taken at short notice ! And she enjoyed the fight but Didnt have a big problem with her ! ( Not said Disrespecfully though BTW ) And as she said was a late replacement and wasnt fight fit ! So imagine if she was ???? !
Cheers

Rotterdam,NL March 16th 2003 versus Mary Hart(UK)
Oldham,UK April 5th 2003 versus Michelle Sutcliffe(UK)
Heereveen,NL April 27th 2003versus Luibove Jakimova(LIT)
Amsterdam,NL MAY 18th 2003 versus Borpit"Lek.com"Kinrum(THA)
Curacao, July 4th 2003 vs Cigár Stigdem
5 fights in 2003 of Ilonka and 5 victories !! C'mon Sandy,are you serious that Lisa can beat Ilonka ???

The fight should have been the WPKL -52,16Kg World Title fight.

Maybe my way of thinking is strange, but if you gonna take a serious shot at a World Title, at least be prepaired, and making the weight goes without saying in my opinion.
Not making the weight & injuring yourself in the dressingroom when taking up such a challange after a 5 years absence doesn't make much sence to me.

As for Ilonka. Her attitude that night was as much inexcusable & unproffesional as Lisa's. Whatever reason you are upset about, you do not show it in the ring. This was a classic early carreer mistake in my opinion. She was only fighting just over 2,5 years back then, and was very far from the level she is fighting and dealing with the sport at today in every aspect.

Lisa didn't have any problems with Ilonka and vice versa. All very much true because nothing happened that night. The fight was a total nightmare with two fighter just not wanting to fight. Worsed fight I've ever seen without a doubt.
Anybody who doesn't believe me can order a copy from Nikko sport, Order nr: KB198 where the fight is listed as I.Elmont vs. M.Hatten!!! Seems even the promotor wants to hide this debacle.

Let me add, that my comments are on this particular fight only. I really do hope we'll get a rematch, because this fight shouldn't have been fought, and both girls deserve much better.
This was a waist of time. A very dark page in 2 impressive carreers from 2 top fighters for who I have lots of respect.

Just my opinion,
Regards,
Eric

Is there a promoter out there willing to set it up?

Which promoter did it last time?

Brian,
Last promotor was M. Aithassou. (with Action Sports Magazine)
Location was: "Zonnenhuis " In Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
Date was Nov. 4th 2001.
Should have been: WPKL -52,16Kg World Title fight.

If they were both equally fit, i'd tip Lisa.

Because she's technically a better fighter.

Is Michele Obora stil fighting?
She trained with me before she went off to Holland to train at Vos.
If anyone has her email could you pass it on to me, as i lost contact with her.
I think she said she was boxing in Germany?
Vincent

Like Col says ! Eric ! he and i are right !
Sorry !

and i thought it was 2002 not 1 ??
Vince ! Go to the Website of Lincoln Boney and its got a big Profile on Michelle ! and details etc: cheers
i think its
www.viperskickboxing.co.uk
Something like that i will try and find it ! Cheers !

Time goes fast Sandy. It was Nov. 4th 2001 for sure.
Good to see you English tip Lisa. That for one is something here in Holland we can learn from.

I really don't know Lisa good enough to know if she is a better technical fighter. Maybe she is, and considering the difference in time these 2 girls are busy with this sport, she should be. If I had to judge from that "fight" in Zonnenhuis, I would do Lisa wrong, so I won't. However the fact that she wants to stop often means that she considers herself at, or just over her top.
Ilonka is learning and perfecting herself every day, and makes lots of progress. She isn't the fighter you saw in Leeds Townhall by far anymore and did 8 or 9 fights since. Judging on what I hear from you guys, it would be a tragic to loose Lisa from the sport. So let's hope she reconsiders, and hopefully we will indeed get the rematch. Ilonka is ready.

Question:
Is Lisa Howarth considered GB's best female fighter at this weightclass (-52 Kg to strech it a bit)? Did she ever fight Lisa Houghton-Smit? How do these 2 compare? To be honest, I really don't know, and always considered Houghton-Smit GB's best fighter at this weightclass.

Ilonka does normally between 49-51 Kg. before a fight. She was even lighter then Lisa H.S. last time (49,3 vs. 50,0 Kg.) But this are details.
Fact is Ilonka already has proven multiple times she handle herself and the handicap to fight (way) above her normal weight. (Last girl in Curacao was nearly 60 Kg.) Most fighters won't do that because they have too much to loose, and maybe they are right. Lack of good competition in her own weight division and the will to fight made Ilonka take-up these fights, where most of her collegues don't want to do that.

But the basic question remains:
Can Lisa Howarth make (-52,16 Kg)? Last time she coulndn't. If so, Ilonka is ready, and always willing to do a rematch, as she already has said in her interview with Dan C.
To me, with Lisa HS on absence (congrets btw!!!) I don't see any other fighters who can match up with Ilonka in GB at this point. Sad, but I really can't, and hopefully I'm wrong.

Regards,
EricR

Michelle Oboro lives in Amsterdam and has done for years. She works and trains part time in the Vos Gym. I think she doesn't fight anymore. I have spokn to her a few times when I have been to the Vos gym, if you need to get hold of her you need to speak to Hippolyte.

Michelle Aboro has been boxing for the last few years. She was boxing under Universum (same outfit Regina Halmich is with) in Germany and was about 21 fights undefeated. I heard she was supposed to be fighting Illonka but that it fell through. I dont know what weight though, because Aboro is a very lean 55kg.

Lisa Houghton Smith has never fought Lisa Howarth. They have trained together quite a bit and are friends, but also they are in different weight classes. Lisa Houghton Smith is 48-50kg but Lisa Howarth was always 52-53. Lisa Howarth is a great fighter with amazing technique and natural punch power, but she was in her most acive stage before most of the girls fighting now were around. She can still put apair of gloves on after no training for months and be sharp and dangerous, but I think its fair to say she's semi retired now. She has her best years behind her and achieved more than most fighters could dream of.

Illonka is a warrior and is getting better all the time, and although I think she is capable of getting there, I dont think she is quite at the same level of Lisa Howarth yet. That is not to say that she might not beat her in a fight, but its a bit like comparing Mike Tyson with Mohammed Ali (both of them are a bit better looking though).

Lisa Houghton-Smith is taking a break now - our baby is due in January so that should keep us busy for a while! Lisa Houghton-Smith is also at a different stage in her career to Illonka. She has been fighting for over 10 years and I think she needed a break anyway. She has fought all the big names and usually in their own back yard giving weight away. Her and Illonka fought twice - once Illonka won and once Lisa won. I'm sure Lisa will be back after the baby is born - watch this space!

Everyone has at least one fight they would rather not anyone
use as a measuring rod of their abilites.

For Ilonka, it was no doubt her fight with Lisa Howarth. Or perhaps her loss to Stefania Bianchini.

For Lisa Howarth, no doubt her fight with Naoko Kumagai who ko'd her in the first round. or her fc loss to Nancy Jospeh.

For Kim Messer? no doubt her loss to Naoko Kumagai.

For Lisa Houghton-Smith? her first loss to Ilonka in Rotterdam.

For Laura Skinner? probably her second fight with Julie Wood.

For Sachiyo Shibata? her loss to Jussy Lowe,or Vanessa Bellegarde.

For Regina Halmich? her first round KO loss to Naoko Kumagai wa s aprticulalry embarrassing.

For Trisha Hill? probably her loss to Jackie Nava.

For Angie Parr, probably her loss to Nava.

for Nava? her ko loss to Patty Gomez.

For Holly Fernely? her loss to Asako Saioka.

For Askao Saioka? probably her loss to Wang Zhan Li.


For Naoko Kumagai? probably she would like to take back her 2 shootboxing losses to Terumi Fujiyama. (she never has been beaten in Muay Thai) although there is an unsubstantiated report she lost one in Thailand to Daoprasuk Petchopas.

Also many fighters simply have a nemsesis-meaning there is one particular adversary, who may not be as good as they, but who simply "has their number." In other simply knows how to frustrate and beat them.

That's one reason the WIKBA does not use head to head competition to rate fighters-except as a tie breaker when all other factors are even.

We often see a situation where A beats B; B then beats C. then C beats A.
so which is number 1?

If you rate any of those three fighters number one, based on head to head competition, rest assured one of the other two will challenge your ranking. on the basis they beat someone you ranked above them.

Therefore we prefer to look to a fighters ENTIRE CAREER to rank them-not who beat whom in a single fight.

Lets just say Ilonka and Howarth are two of the best female fighters ever.As are several others previously metnioned here-or elsewhere.

dan

This thing about lisa howarth not making the weight next time she will be training a lot more and will have a lot more notice on the fight than she did the first time.
So yes she can make the weight!!
i agree with colin h and sandy she is far to technical for illonka.
As well as more skillful and stronger.
But Illonka has time and youth on her hands and i wish her well!!!!
Thanks for everyone who replied it come about to be a very interesting topic.

FAIR COMMENTS TO DAN HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT!!

Thanks Dan & Mr. Smith,

I couldn't agree more. Ilonka belongs in the same class as Lisa Houghton-Smith. So, for us it's far more interesting to watch how Lisa HS. is doing after she makes her comeback. And I'm sure she will do great.

As for youth on her hand, Ilonka is 29 years of age, but yes, still improving herself every day and working hard to achieve her goals.
Last time bringing over Lisa Howarth was an enormous blunder by the promotor which backfired bigtime at him. It would be equally interesting to see Lisa HS vs. Lisa Howarth then it is to see Ilonka vs. Lisa Howarth again.
It's far more interesting to see how Lisa Houghton-Smith is doing as she makes her comeback. A rematch with Howarth might be fun, and knowing Ilonka, she will definitly agree to it. But interesting..... With all due respect to Lisa Howarth, I prefer to see Lisa HS back soon. To me, Lisa HS. is the real competition from GB for Ilonka, and I'm confident sooner or later she will meet Ilonka again.

But for now, I wish both Lisa & Richard lots of luck and happiness in these happy and far more important times.

Regards,
EricR

What about Ilonka vs Mary Hart at 52?????

LOL Again???

I like Mary Hart, great fighter & nice person, but again????

Illonka has beaton Mary Hart twice Mary would love a third tho!!

Wow i didnt realise that ?
And yep Good Post Dan like the Lost v Stats ! Interesting ! And Thanks for the Jussy Lowe ( From My NBolton-Thai-Boxing-Club ) mention she will be happy ! As she fought BOTH Mary and Lisa 3 times and also Illonka Once too !
mad circles eh !
Cheers Tricia
you made a great Topic too !
cheers

Anyone Know ? Lisas E-mail ? or tel: Number i lost it ! ta

anybody ?