SPINNING BACKFIST IN OR OUT

So with the reintroduction of the technique in certain quarters where do we stand on it, there seemed to be some discrepency on its use on Unleashed and I was wondering where all the associations stood on this matter.

IN!

Blooody hell that was quick

I would say IN - always been a great technique and seen some great knock Outs with it !!

'there seemed to be some discrepency on its use on Unleashed'

There was no discrepancy. At this present time the SBF is not allowed in IKF sanctioned events here in the UK.

Sorry, definately OUT for me. Not a fan of the SBF

Then it is for me to appologies, only it was used in one of the first fights of the evening, and it seemed That Mike ( Belgrave ) looked to look for a ruling from the one of judges on it. It is by no means by way of critisism of Mike or the show, both top draw, merely a personal observation, on an issue that dictates what is taught to students and fighters alike. I am led to believe ISKA have reintroduced it so to have WKA I was wondering if this was to be implemented across the board.

i think the wrsa are bringing it back later in the year

In Muay Thai yes....In kickboxing no interest.

Andree Warbrick threw a spinning back first at our girl in bout #4 Alan but the move was highlighted as having been illegal. No slight on Andree who is a novice fighter but karate instructor so understandable where it came from.

Out it takes away the skill level of the sport and is to dangerous

Why isnt Spinning Backfist in MT?
as Spinning Elbow is
der Ridoncoulous

I agree in some terms Dougie but I have always thought of it as a technique thrown by someone who is panicked enough to have turned their back on their oppponent in the first instance. Having said that I have recently been winess to some who throws it in a more educated sense and mixing this with turning side kicks and spinning hook kicks, it results in a more confused opponent who is not quite to sute what to expect, from the aggresser, so in fact the skill level of the assailent is greater because of it's use. So that puts me in the position of devils advocate. Then of course their is the dilema of "if" it is recognised as a legal technique in FC, do we then teach to younger fighters it who will invariable use it in light con. Yes I am aware of the danger to the technique to both the fighter recieving it and the person throwing it, but an argument could also be said for spinning hook kick. In full contact you look to score the heel, in light con you enthuse the use of the bottom of the upper part of the foot with control. Surely then the SBF with a straight arm is for FC and with a chambered strike for L/C only striagening the arm at the very last moment again with control. See the dilema.
IN or OUT?

Defo IN for me.It's a real technique and good to see if done correctly.

gotta back red raven.its a thai technique,so why not

My Initial argument however would have been it does not bide well with purists of the thought that FC is a mixture of Queensbury rules boxing and Traditional kicking technique.
Thought I was decided on this issue but not totally sure now of it's legitimacy

In MT it has to be allowed, otherwise it's not MT.

I get pissed off when I see referees warning fighters for using it.

So long as elbows are allowed (i.e. full thai rules fight) so should SBF.

def should be used, devastating when done properly and it connects.

Stefan Leko tries it a lot, but also misses a lot, so can leave you open.

Also my sons favourite technique!

Spinning back fist in MT obviously.Its a legitimate technique.

The reasoning for some bodies not allowing it in other styles of fights (that does not include elbows) is mostly because it is possible and likely that the elbow will strike the opponent instead of the fist.


When asked by a team if its allowed to be used in a non elbow fight,i ask the opposing team if they wish to have this technique included in the match,and if they do I allow it....but always with a caution that IF the elbow connects (a foul)then its likely to result in a point deduction or a DSQ depending on the severity and effect on the opponent.Both teams have to agree to use the SBF in a non elbow fight otherwise its simply not allowed.

why do we have to consider it, its part of muay thai its like saying should we have penalties in football..

Most def IN

Why not?

In
Out
In
Out
Shake
It
All
About........



















Do the Backfist, and spin their Heads all about!

lol


hahaha im a not right or left or normal

i laugh at me lol

IN !!

In response to the "thrown in desperation" views the ISKA brought the technique back for kickboxing matches from B class and there will be serious penalties for missuse of the technique, connecting with anything other than the knuckle part of the glove .

Personally i love the technique, and maybe it will add a little more excitement back into the sport at the higher level.

Orgs should start to take responsibility to consult with other top orgs before changing rules.

Consistancy amongst orgs is more important than one technique!

otherwise someone will throw it like at unleashed but maybe next time someone will get hurt cause they dont allow it or practice it in all orgs.

spinning hook kick is alot more difficult to throw and land than spinning back fist so dont think we can compare them. Yes it is exciting and has wow factor but need to make sure everyone is agreed otherwise there will be a serious injury at some point. I am talking about a figher throwing at and forgetting there are not on a ISKA show.

I agree Dean.

To move this caravan forward at all we need one set of common rules. We cant decide how many rounds to fight, weather to wear headguerds or not, and now the spinning backfist thing.

It is skillfull. When I used to do a bit (and it was a bit) of light con, it was allowed. You just had to controll it by getting your head round first.

In full contact there are so many great combinations to use it with, spinning kicks or just round kicks where you miss your opponent, or even off a left hook. All a skill!

I say bring it back BUT, we cant keep changing rules. If its back it needs to be right accross the board and in from the start.

I agree Mark . We need more consistency between the 2 or 3 top orgs . Not just on the spinning backfist. Sweeps is also a little bug bare of mine .
Some only allow outside , some only inside , some both . Why ?
I remember being in a fight years ago when they suddenly decided that the outside sweep was illegal half way through the fight after i had dumped their champ on his ass a couple of times with it ;-) Should be inside and out IMO.

Of course it's about consistancy, and at what level the technique can be used, but consistancy begins at the start, so are you right too allow L/C fighters to use it. Like I said I'm now undecided which is a move from definate No, but if it is allowed then it is, so uniformity is important for the reasons stated.

and what is B class now??..Becasue with the growing proper amateur structure and a more defined 'Pro' structure, where is B class now??

For me if your not amateur, your Pro and thats it.

Absolutely! Colin out with the old in with the new simple, either/or.

When the technique was used by all my club was one of its biggest fans However my thoughts have changed over the period of time without it. I remember some really nasty knock outs some delivered by some of my fighters such as Sara Hall. Dale was pritty good at it as well. To many elbows instead of fists/hammer part of the hand not knuckles/forearm ect ect ect. Spinning kicks take a high skill level and is part of what we are all about (martial Arts).

I agree it isnt as simple as "in or out", there are alot of issues that go along with it but its a technique that was used and was taken out , it was there originally because it was a kickboxing technique so it should stay in the rules. At the end of the day its a "full contact" sport , there is an eliment of danger but thats why we choose to do it , its a full contact sport . I guess im just not keen on watering the sport down . look at thaiboxing , the sport thrives on spinning elbows and back fists and touch wood no wories .... police it correctly but dont ban it .

So how exactly do you police it correctly?

You can either do it correctly or you can't.

Save it for A class only who should know how to throw it?

Only way they know how is by throwing it in N class, c class, B class. Then you open it up to any tosser who thinks it's clever but can't coach it properly.

It's a powder keg!
Out - Thats it!

Carl you should speak your mind sometimes LOL

IN for B and A class
End of

OK Sandy. In for B & A but perfeceted when? Not in C & N if it's not allowed and not in the gym becuase dropping it on pads and bags will only work so far.

The risk at B & A is the same!

In for Muay Thai, we teach it, we practice it. Should be in.

Hi Collin nice to see im not on my own. Time will tell and the question has to be why was it band in the 1st place. And I stand to be corrected but was it not the Org that band it in the 1st place who are know bringing it back ????

Fighters will get hurt and some will win fights that would not normally have done

This really is a tough one - and having thought about it alot, I am thinking it should be out (I think lol).... more so because of how hard it will be getting it brought in properly.

If fighting on an ISKA show now I have to beaware of a spin backfist. It is not forced on me to use it, although if it is allowed then I need to learn it so I have the same tools as the other person. I have just had my 10th Pro fight and getting more settled into new style and getting used to being in the ring - but now I could be sparked by a spin backfist that I have never used or seen in sparring... I would be like a bunny in the headlamps.

I agree with Dale that people like it as it is an original kickboxing technique, but look at MMA and the things you are not allowed to do now. I agree that things are removed for a reason. I just don't think many people will have or be able to develop the skill to use them properly. Someone mentioned Lecko that uses them in K1 and misses alot - yet he trains and fights for a living. We are going to have many Pro fighters throwing a spin back fist like a raw novice because it isn't in our training roots.

Spin kicks miss or go wrong alot but not much harm can be done - I watched my last fight and saw that my jump back landed low when trying to break away from a clinch - even though I have done it loads in training and pads etc. Result from this was nothing or could have been a kick to the nuts that he would have recovered from, but recovery from a spin back fist will be harder if it is an elbow cutting your head or knocking you out.

I did want it in at one point, to match up our rules with other countries like USA etc. But I don't think it will work in UK and would hope it be banned in other countries eventually. Bottom line for me is, I will be bringing it in to training and am interested in seeing how it works out for ISKA (and fair ply for making the move), but if given the choice I would prefer them out and stick to how it has been.

THE BULLDOG writes:

OK Sandy. In for B & A but perfeceted when? Not in C & N if it's not allowed and not in the gym becuase dropping it on pads and bags will only work so far.

The risk at B & A is the same!


FLAWED

So when can a student practice a head kick?
first lesson?
or week? month? Nope
or a Elbow or Knee to the head errrr Nope
and same in Kick boxing im sure certain moves novices wont do cant do and are Not shown etc:



Re: Dropping it in on pads and bags??

errrrr yes how the hell do you learn if not by these tried and tested methods?
H E L L O

where else do you practice?
on trees?
and of course on each other in Sparring
how do we ply our trade /s otherwise?
and advance from
Numpty punching :-/
to ccorrect punching and so on ref: all the MT and Kb artillery

IN COACH it propaply throw it correctly it adds to the excitment( only if you are not on the recieving end lol

It either has to be in or out! LOL

We now face the possibility of it being in on ISKA show and out on IKF (the only 2 orgs worth working with, sorry to all the rest).

I still teach it, but if its in then fighters will throw it in times of stress on shows that they should not. Hard call.

If its in, it should be in all the time, even on amateur. If its out it needs to be out altogether!

This is a step back for me, like Dean said earlier, we need 1 set of rules for all. And agree with Jimmy 100%. foot sweeps need to be sorted. I say inside and out should be allowed, but they need to be policed a bit better to. To many guys throw them like kicks with the top of the foot.

iN

Foot sweeps need a thread on their own Mark, a real minefield but in short offensively the outside footsweep is a good thing certainly adds to the variety of technique, but not so sure about the inside footsweep, can be construde as a cop out for those that are under pressure and is mostly thrown in just such a situation ie. back on the ropes don't know how to get off, so avoid the inside work and footsweep ya man. So whilst it adds to variation it also can detract from the fight as a whole, enabling a fighter to avoid the inside close quarter work, which is an integral part of he fight.

It has to be in, for Muay Thai. 8 weapons and a shit load of angles to throw them from. This needs to include the spining backfist or we are constantly changing the course of muay thai.

IN: Defo in Muay Thai it's part of it!

"Re: Dropping it in on pads and bags??

errrrr yes how the hell do you learn if not by these tried and tested methods?
H E L L O

where else do you practice?
on trees?
and of course on each other in Sparring
how do we ply our trade /s otherwise?
and advance from
Numpty punching :-/
to ccorrect punching and so on ref: all the MT and Kb artillery"

You were almost talking sensibly Sandy - and then it ended:)

My point remains - even if you didn't see it. And Head kick practice comes with less risk of catching the opponent with the wrong (and possibly more devastating) tool. Not really comparative IMHO :)

And by the way, I don't have an issue with full rules Thai Boxers using it - because fist or elbow (accidental or otherwise) is legal. In fact I think it should be allowed.
I speak only in terms of Full Contact:)