is it worth training in Thailand

last yr i sent a fighter to train i thailand, she spent 4 weeks training there and came back and got beat by someone who she would have beaten before she went.
the problem in my mind was that when in thailand she trained with 5 x 3's with a 2min break and when she came back she fought 5 x 2 with a 1 min break and died on her arse.

now i know this subject has been brought up in other threads like Muay Thai or Muay Europe, but i feel the european fighting style is a lot more frenetic that the thai style so spending time in thailand does not always garuante success.

having shared my thoughts on this with a few other instructors they confirmed they had also sent fighters to thailand who got hammered on there return,

i would however like to point out that the improvement in technique, balance and power was fantastic in this girl, however in hindsight i would have given her a few months to let it all bed in before putting her back in the ring.

this has not put me off doing the same again as im sending a young guy over to thailand on monday but this time he wont be fighting till after christmas.

i think that in the long term training in thailand is great for fighters but i dont believe that its a short cut to success.

stevie

`Good` Topic Stevie ( Answer your Others first though, dont hit n Run lol )

Its Interesting what you say and ask here though !"
I think it should Enhance ! NOT change your training !
Esp: as how can 2 weeks 3,4,5,6, Whatever Change Years with a good trainer your fighter has ? !
IMO

training 5 rounds of 3 min with 2 min break?sounds like a lazy coach..

I think you gotta spend more than 4 weeks out there to really benifit from the training. For example, anything from 3 months to a year. Maybe I'm wrong, I noticed that after a month I was only just starting to mould into the training, it takes about 1 week to acclimatise and get over the jet lag, then about another week (or more) to actually get used to training in extreme heat then after that it takes a week or two to fall into the way they train out there... My conditioning was very high when I returned, my skill in kicking improved and my overall clinch techniques improved, knee, elbows all that stuff. Yeah I think it's well worth it, I learn more there in 3 months than I do here in a whole year. I dont know if I actually learn more or its my skill that improves quicker.

The fights in Thailand are different in most areas of Thailand. For example if you go to country fairs up north then you'll see frenetic fights, Mae Sot on particular times of the year and you'll see fights that blow you away in terms of madness, only way to win is by KO!!. The eastern Thais are by far the toughest, know as Buffalo fighting (cant remember the Thai term) for 5 rounds they just go forward and forward no matter what happens. The Northern style is kicking, its very hard training because as you know kicks take a lot of effort... each round you could kick from anyhting to 10-70 kicks (thats including the 10 or 20 they have you bang out at the end of each round)

I can only comment on Northern and North East as I havnt trained in south or central other than once in Sor vorapins in Bangkok where they where more of a boxer style.

Yeah man its well worth it, in my opinion. I think more than a month is needed to fully benifit from the training. I met plenty of guys who trained for two weeks but didnt really learn much other than how they train in Thailand. Then I met foreigners out there for a year, ok they dont move like western boxers but they are sure as hell tough and very conditioned and most of them kick like Thais, move like Thais and fight like Thais.... well it is after all "Thai boxing".

yeah I think its well worth it. Maybe an extra month added.

Just my opinion.

Good Post Good Synopsis !

nice post darran

agree with what you say, a short stay in thailand is not always gonna mean you come back a top fighter, and after 4 weeks i think my girl needed more time before she went back in the ring (my fault) but i also believe that thier is a myth that if you spend a couple o weeks in thailand you will come back 10 times better.

as i say what she got even in those short weeks will improve her tremendously in the future but i dont think its a quick fix.

Whenever I went to Thailand to train, I was not that impressed, but then I never spent a great deal of time there. Then people started coming to me from other gyms and I realised something. Before you can show them anything new, you have to get them doing the old things how you want them to. As we all know, it is far easier to teach someone from new than to stop somebodt from doing something one way when they have allready been doing it another way for some time. Classic example if the way people stand, 90% of Thai Boxiers in this country do not even stand in the right place! This point was reinforced to me by Pete Crooke who only recently went to Thailand and spent a week learning how to stand, despite having a "world title".

So Thailand or anywhere, has to learn what you can do and get the basics right before they can even start to teach you anything else!!

What happened to your girl, has happened to loads of people, not just Thai Boxers going to Thialand. Classic example is Naz. I am not a big fan of Brenden Ingle, but when he tried different trainers, they couldn't stop him from doing certain things, Anthony Farnell another example. And so on and so on.

Plus I think Full rules is a different sport to no elbows and knees to the head. And how serious did they take your girl? Not much loved in Muay thai circles in Thailand still

i have to give total credit to the camp they treated her very well and trained her as well as any man in the camp , i would not hesitate to send anyone back to the same camp, in fact i recomended it to someone who spent 3 months there.

Dazza where to Stand?
ie: you mean in the ring?
/ place ?
or Footwork / stance?
Divuldge please
:-)

where and how to stand in relation to your opponent. it's the most important thing!

dazzathethai

I think you may be talking about Yang Sam Kum. Thai footwork. Yes in western Muay Thai Yang Sam Kum is not the same, western fighters move like boxers. And you made good points about "relearning", I noticed that everytime I went there... although he did try to develop my strengths there was always a certain "style" he wanted me to fight.... I learned a lot and I also learn a lot from some guys who have never trained in Thailand in terms of footwork and other stuff... what I learned in Thailand was front foot flat with the rear heal raised is usually a prefered stance for delivering a fast roundkick, front foot heal raised and flat on the rear is prefered for "teep" defense and shin defense. Ma Yong (spelling here) is good to enter opponents space to attack (learned that here also) also both heels raised while dipping forward to "fake".... the quick "bruce lee like" footwork is, I am sure, not exactly part of Muay Thai but it works so why not use it! I was always told not to move like that, they prefer me to block and if possible move quickly away from an uncounterable attack (side step or back) then regain composure (yang sam kum - thai footwork) then work from there again... I cant explain really what i mean but it is different, Thai footwork taught in Thailand is slightly different that Thai footwork taught outside of Thailand. Maybe thats because the standard of Boxing (fistwork) is higher, I dunno its anyone guess I suppose.

...I notice many western fighters move like boxers, dancing round their opponents, frustrating them... I am trying to learn this footwork as I assume it would be usefull when fighting against such an opponent

By the way I aint an expert, just giving my opinions.

I think alot of what you can get out of training in Thailand is upto how much you are willing to try something new. If you go there and train your own way not only can you not learn another way but no one will go the extra mile.

Pooring water in a full cup doesn't get you anywhere.. 'empty your cup' was that Musashi or someone Five Rings or something??

I haven't read anyones threads by the way so this is directed at no one...

I have seen people that stay for close to a year and come back looking the same. If you don't want to fight Thai style I don't see a big advantage training in a Thai gym...if you do...well try it...don't try your own stuff. Look and see and copy what is around.

stevie-read your first post..

I think training needs to match the fighting. I think 2min with 1min break is probably harder than 3 with a 2 min break. In anycase could the question be does if an amateur trains like a pro will there be any disadvantages to training for 3min round with a 2min break and then fighting 2min rounds with 1min breaks?

does it make sense to train for a thousand meter dash and run a 500 meter dash?

you have to get sport specific in training...no?

training has to be based around the fight. Easy to use a boxing example. I know a very good am boxing coach who started to take his lads to a pro gym to train. He gave up very quickly, training was all geared to the longer pro fights.

In answer to the question...Yes it is worth it as after training, you can hit the ladyboy clubs...well..erm...its what i heard!!

:)

i think that the main thing is that "in which gym you have trained...the trainer , and his methodolgy..."...

otherwise , in the world it is always the common rule :

"the northern division likes "kicking".."
"the southern divisions like "hand-arm technics"..."
"west divisions like "punching"..."
"east divison likes "grapling "..."

that's the common rule: kung fu (northern styles: emphasize has been given much more in kicking , the southern styles: emphasize given in arm technics ) , in karate (okinawa: arm hand technics, in north japan : much more "kicks") etc etc...

other parameters are also important, i think:

-5 x 3 min is a long duration where the fighters have been training accordingly much more in slow tempo if compared to 5 x 2 min ...
-change of the climate can make also bad effects on fighters ...training in a country with high temperature and than coming back to a cold country and starting to fight may cause bad effects on the condition easily...
-5 x 2 min (1 min ) euro fights (if i am not misremembering) has been created by the holland and japan organizations (kb- bonds) and people has been forced to fight in that much more speedy fight tempo...of course, the dutch and japanese fighters have been trained according to this speedy tempo , whereas most of the opponents(thais , french) have been coming from 3 min rounds origins...

briefly; if you have been trained in thailand in general with long rounds of training and came back to the 2 min fights , you would most probably be in difficulty...
every system has it's own, unique properties as people described above and poeple have to train according to them...

(the thais could get success in k-1 max very recent and it is very clear that they have been trained according to k-1 max rules...if they would insist on the common thai way -training , they would not be successful...)

Is there such a divide still in Thailand?? I think top gyms will have most things and a good trainer should be able to work with a fighters strengths and weaknesses...no?

what a load of nonsense