I mentioned a study I had heard on this but didn't have the details. I haven't gone looking either actually but came across another source.

Muscle Testing

I have seen it demonstrated (actually once on me) in lectures and experiemented with it in a class. My strength coach has also done it to me.

Recently I started looking into it a little more for myself, doing some reading and experimenting on people.

Anyway, they have found with rock music that the thymus weakens (also the deltoid). Now thymus should effect quite a bit too...

Now this was written in the 70s so newer 'rock' music may or may not have the same effect as they figure its to do with the specific rythem of the beat.

Without going into details, no other type of music seemed to have this same effect.

No the positive/negative content i'm sure has some effect too but this was totally to do with the beat.

I suspect rap (which I think is missing a 'c') would not have the same weakening effect as 'rock', at least not from the beat.

With muscle testing (muscles are connected to organs etc and if the muscle is weak you know something is going on with the organ...) one could find out what eeffects them specifically. Like flouresent lighting is no good for anyone but one might or might not test weak under the lighting. Toxic chemical cleaners are crap for anyone but the amounts used may cause one person to test weak and not another... That wouldn't mean they aren't bad but that they aren't effecting at such a large degree...

You can do it with foods, music. If you smile you test stronger and if you frown you test weaker (gets back to what I believe in performance-this agressive/negative state doesn't lend to performance IMO).

Even symbols can effect us... Surprising which ones too (won't get into that). But the body CANNOT lie.

Either way the beat in rock (which I love many rock songs) will make you weaker!! (by the way the thymus plays a big role in the immune system...

I want to see a fight between Henry rollins and andrew lloyd webber or at least a bench pressing competition lol =)

lol

Maybe not worth testing to see if there is even any truth in it...

Mark, this is the final straw, the men in white coats will be coming for you!

lol

Not that hard to test. Though experience is really needed to get very accurate testing. BK (behavioral kinesiology) has been around for quite a while.

Just cause its not the norm (doesn't envolve selling prescriptions) doesn't mean there isn't evidence and history with it :)

Like I said before though, this isn't the first place I heard about rock music and strength...

Is whats not normal or commenly believed automatically incorrect??? Why? :)

phil, no worries, I think I can take 'em anyway :P

"Even symbols can effect us..." sounds interesting. What sort of symbols and what effects do they have?

oh dear... lol

they found, surprisingly, the cross made most people weak.. now don't all jump (especially if your religious). What seems to be is the actual symbol not what it NOW means... I don't really know but I do knowe the cross is for killing people, Jesus wasn't the first or last to die that way...maybe there is something else too... I don't know.. but its not our association which suggests some wierd stuff... like...

the swastika (spelling?) actually makes most people stronger. The testers were surprised. Even hollocost victoms generally tested stronger when looking at it...

The symbol, before the nazis was a good symbol actually.. reality is it was a good symbol for the nazis even though their ideas of our way is right were fucked(just like all our way is the only way mentality)..

Its not a 'bad' symbol. Just some 'bad' people used it... Imagine that. Thinking our way is the only right way and going into countries and killing poeople-you'd never get that today.... (yeah right look at the news)

Pitch forks, most people test weak... wierd stuff :)

Wouldnt that be because those certain symbols are now associated with something evil, and everybody alive now will recognise that. If the Swastika test was done 100 years ago thenI doubt any result would have been recorded as none would have associated it with anything.

Is the swastika not a Hindu symbol reversed?

ok my understanding is..

svastika is sanskrit for 'conducive to well-being'

clockwise was a common symbol of the sun
counter clock-moon

not sure which way round each is or which the Nazis used lol

But its quite interesting...

Ahh... interesting.. I missed a bit..

The Swastika-most will test weak with one way and strong with the other. They've determined this is to do with which hemisphere in the brain is dominant.

ok rock music..

its an anapestic beat (musicians or poets may follow what that means, I don't lol)

supposedly da-da-DA beat (not really sure exactly what that is)

Thats the issue, not its 'rock' but the actual rythem.

"An anapestic beat when clapped with the hands...will produce the same effect..."
-John Diammond, M.D. "Your Body Doesn't Lie"

played fast enough though it doesn't have this effect.. So some of the hard rock, which I'm suspecting Hamishes pic is from, might not have the effect...?

I am talking specifically rock and roll,Now the book was written in the 70s so music since won't be included.

However the content itself is a factor in creating your brain IMO
Like your body, you get out what you put in IMO

you suspected right.

Weak while the music is on?

Weakened for a time?

Only affecting the muscles and thymus?

Does this "study" if thats what it is take into account anything else , whats the control situation in these experiments ,like how do they quantify it?

Look into it :)

How long it lasts and IF it effects you will partly depend on the strength of your thymus (for example).

Just like some people can get away with a little more unhealthy living than others...negative is still that.

from an experiment on my self and friends classical and rock music makes me (us feel invigorated inspired and strong, wonder how much the psycological effects have been taken into account in these 'studies'

How one feels and the reality of what its doing are different.

They switched music in a factory. Everyone complained and were not happy but the change increased productivity and decrease in errors.

Take sugar away from a baby and it will wine to. We all know how it feels good and alive to be on sugar. Doesn't mean it does us any good.

No there is more to it.. If the body is messed up sugar (or say rock music) could make people test stronger... Its a fast downward spiral I think...

"It is as if the body can no longer distinguish what is benifitial to what is harmful. In fact, his body now actually chooses that which is destructive over that which is therapeutic" -John Diamond, M.D. "Your Body Doesn't Lie"

I wonder if you took kids who had never heard any music and were exposed to different types of music how they would react. I strongly suspect that they wouldn't start rocking to acid rock... Kinda like most wouldn't chuck down a beer and go mmmmmmmm more please. But I don't think that study has been done.. So its only a speculated guess.

once again I guess it depends how you are quantifying it.

I lift more weight because I feel invigorated by the music I listen to and my mind is controlling my matter.

Doesnt mean because its supposed to make more weak or its supposed to be bad or its supposed to be negative that it actually is.

I mean if I am lifting a heavier weight and we are quantifying wether rock music makes you weak or not via a series of weight lifting test, while I still lifted a heavier weight.......so I am stronger.....oh no that wasnt supposed to happen.....while it did

What happens if I have a negative association to the music thats suppose to be positive for me, then it still impacts on me negatively and would have a lot further implications to hearing it that are not taken into account or are measured under what ever method is being used to quantify the experiment

Another example is my girlfriend hates some of the music I listen to, she cant concentrate, it makes her feel tense, she cant stand it.....while with me depending on what mood Im in I can study really well with it or train listening to it, doesnt effect me the same way.....different strokes for different folks.

Nice Idea about the baby, not really relavent in the context of the situation though....Me I have lived for a while and my mind has been exposed to alot of different things and I have had a lot of different experiences and all of these have helped make me who I am today....I am not a baby.... so thereforre I wil act and react in different ways to different stimulus....like music.

I certainly do no think that there is one right music to listen to ...one positive music for all.

Sometomes I find listz positive, some times throwdown, sometimes leonard cohen

So how has John diamond discovered what is the right beneficial or therapeutic music to listen to, and how does he gauge this...for alll

very very interested

suppose he says mozart is the positive right music for your body,

to some kid he has a negative association to it due to his upbringing and it does absolutlely nothing for him....supose then you can turn around and say ...well you just dont know whats good for you ,do ya

Mark.L says "I wonder if you took kids who had never heard any music and were exposed to different types of music how they would react. I strongly suspect that they wouldn't start rocking to acid rock... Kinda like most wouldn't chuck down a beer and go mmmmmmmm more please. But I don't think that study has been done.. So its only a speculated guess."

Most of these kids shit their pants but im not about to start doing that....

If its a speculated guess why mention it , its irrelevant. I remember tasting beer when I was young and thinking it was disgusting ,I also remember hearing different forms of music and feeling different things.


I have seen very young children, under one years old, walk into a room with music playing , rock music and smile walk up to the speaker, put their hand on the speaker, feel the vibration and begin to smile and dance.......badly but still dance. Some kids seem to like rock ,some bassey music some classical...strange huh. My 2 kids were different aswell with the music that they responded to one to rock and one to hip hop.....wow

association with music-the effects of the swastika suggest that there is more to it than your conscious thought.

I am suggesting that if you tried to lift your max weight with different types of music you might find some interesting results. Regardless what you tell yourself.

Why mention it? lol cause I would bet money on it. :)

You think a 1year old hasn't been exposed to music for 1 year and 9 months already???

Of course there are other factors, associatins etc can make differences. However the testing we are talking about, according to Diamond, showed that basically ALL music was fine and rock wasn't.. strangly enough.

If you don't like what the study suggests, cool.

But it does suggest no matter what you consciously think, no matter what your associations, no matter what you tell yourself helps...it may not, at least on some levels.

Kids, or anyone responding to and the body are very different. The book is called "Your Body Doesn't Lie". You're body, as a rule, CANNOT lie (not just reffering to the book in that statement-it is something I knew/believed before reading). Anyway someone can say they do well on x food. But if you muscle test someone immediatly after eating the smallest amount you'll get the truth. (doesn't have to be digested etc they could love it etc, they could say they do way better on it for a million reasons) but the body tests weak on foods that are not good for the individual. Everyone tests different though thinngs like sugar always test weak (unless they are that messed up like the quote above talks about).

You don't like the studies or the presmis or agree thats cool... But they show that things are a certain way, no matter what you think consciously about it.

Would be nice to say I like or dislike the studies if I had a proper idea about the studies, ie who were they done by , when, like I said how were they quantified

Ive got some books from the same era about mid wifery that suggest to delay labour you should get drunk and stay drunk as that relaxes your body, this girl does it in the book and delays giving birth by staying drunk for a week or so, great idea????

Wow so many great ideas around that time and also published , not something I would put much credibility in or recomend to any one though!!!!

Its not nessacerily that I agree or disagree, I have had experiences and and will always question things that do not sit right with me, I refuse to blindly accept something that some one tells me a study was done on so its right....thats just not how I work.

So let me get this right you have one study "maybe" that suggests that maybe rock music may make the body weaker. And you have decided now that this is right...

Sorry if you dont like me questioning what you have said....just that some of it doesnt really seem to make sense to me......

Have you got a link to this study or a similar study...whats the name of the book or the report that its come from.....I would be keen to read some more

I think you are the one mark who usually says that we are all different and that we all have different needs, but with the music their is supposed to be a generic right music....or a generic wrong music......strange

If you want to really know or take the chance of looking at something outside the belief system you were given as a child-look.

Silly comments like the time period don't mean much. You don't think you can find something printed in 2006 that is rubbish?

If you want to disagree and attack fine.

We are all different but there are always commen factors. Like staying up for 24hrs is not good...

I've mentioned a book, look into it if you want.

But you will find what you want to find.

I'm not saying 'IT IS SO'. I am saying there is evidence of some possibilities. I find them interesting to say the least.

My belief system that I was given as a child would be that rock is bad....ha ha so no its not that ....I always question if it doesnt sit right with my own experiences ...I just wanna know more...If you wanna believe the book thats fine I would rather look into it more, 70s came up with some great ideas...each to their own

I think I will do more research into this one

Effects of pretest stimulative and sedative music on grip strength.

Author(s): Karageorghis, C.I.; Drew, K.M.; Terry, P.C.
Source: Perceptual and motor skills (Missoula, Mont.), Dec 1996: 83 (3 Part 2). p. 1347-1352 6p.

Publication Year: 1996
Language: English
Country of Publication: United States
Abstract: The purpose of the present study was to investigate the effects of stimulative (energizing) and sedative (relaxing) music on grip strength. A 2 X 3 (gender X condition) repeated-measures analysis of variance and post hoc tests showed that participants (N = 50) evidenced higher grip strength after listening to stimulative music (M = 43.94 kg. force) than after sedative music or a white noise control condition. Sedative music yielded lower scores than white noise. Men evidenced higher grip strength than women, but there was no interaction between gender and music condition. It was concluded that a simple motoric task such as grip strength provides a sensitive measure of psychophysical responses to music

Effects of motivational music on work output and affective responses during sub-maximal cycling of a standardized perceived intensity.
Author(s): Elliott, D.: St. Martin's College; Carr, S.: Division of Human Movement and Sport Sciences, University College Northampton, Park Campus, Boughton Green Road, Northampton, UK email: sam.carr@northampton.ac.uk; Savage, D.: Chester College
Source: Journal of sport behavior (Mobile, Ala.), June 2004: 27 (2). p. 134-147 14p.
Publication Year: 2004
Language: English
Country of Publication: United States
Abstract: This study aimed to determine the effects of motivational music on the objective work output of individuals exercising at a standardized subjective perceived intensity. Furthermore, it was also an aim of this investigation to determine whether music had any influence on in- exercise affective states. Specifically, 18 participants (eight males and ten females) were subject to three 12-minute exercise trials in conditions of no music, oudeterous music, and motivational music (as identified by rating procedures of the Brunel Music Rating Inventory; Karageorghis, Terry & Lane, 1999). In all trials, participants were required to work at a standardized Rate of Perceived Exertion (Borg, 1971) of '13.' Subsequent inter-trial differences in objective work output were recorded in terms of the distance traveled by participants in each 12-minute trial. Specifically, results indicated that at a, standardized subjective intensity, participants cycled significantly further when exposed tomotivational music as opposed to no music. Additionally, this increase in objective workload appeared to be at no cost to in-exercise affective states with motivational music eliciting significantly higher levels of positive affect than no music.

This is great stuff

Good to know for training in muay thai.

This one seems even more relevant

Title:Carry-over effects of music in an isometric muscular endurance task.
Author(s): Crust, L.: Sport Science Department, Lincoln College, Monks Road, Lincoln, LN2 5HQ, United Kingdom email: lcrust@lincolncollege.ac.uk
Source: Perceptual and motor skills (Missoula, Mont.), June 2004: 98 (3 Part 1). p. 985-991 7p.
Publication Year: 2004
Language: English
Country of Publication: United States
Abstract: This study tested the effects of exposure to self-selected motivational music both prior to and during performance of a muscular endurance task. 27 male undergraduate students in sports science completed an isometric weight-holding task on two separate occasions while listening either to self-selected motivational music or white noise. Participants were assigned to one of three groups on the basis of scores on a familiarization trial. The three groups were Prior Exposure, music or white noise played immediately before task commencement; Half Exposure, conditions initiated simultaneously with task commencement but terminated approximately half-way through the trial; and Full Exposure, conditions initiated simultaneously with trial commencement and continuing until voluntary cessation. A two-way mixed-model analysis of variance yielded a significant interaction and a main effect for condition. Participants held the weight suspended significantly longer when listening to music thanwith white noise. For the interaction, analysis of gain scores indicated participants' performance increased more for exposure to music during the entire session, than for exposure to music prior to the session. These results suggest that exposure to music during muscular endurance trials can yield significantly longer endurance times, but that exposure to music prior to task commencement may not carry over to influence performance.

Cool cool... So I should take the white noise of my digital audio player? lol

I like these :)

Try Abba, you need more fun in your life:)

Abba, lol.I think that at first that might make me weaker, then after a while of being exposed to it , it might just make me frustrated enough to start pounding the bags a little harder. ;)

With a name like Hamish, you want to be training to the Proclaimers, trust me it gets the heart pumped up!!! Altogether now, " and i would walk 500 miles and I would walk 500 more"

And when I get drunk, yea you know im gonna be
im gonna be the man whos getting drunk withou you
and i would walk 500 miles and I would walk 500 more
just to be the man who walked 1000 thousand miles to throw up on your floor
Im a bastard, hes a bastard
un dea da de da da da

Thats one of the changed chporus lines that a local irish band used to sing ;)
there version got pretty funny.

Although i do like the proclaimers style

sedative music scores lower strength than white noise lol

Lesson

Dont listen to leonard cohen while working out.ha ha

shit hamish! dont listen to cohen fullstop! unless your in a wrist cutting/slashing or shooting yourself in the head type of mood!

You guys should listen to each other and then do muscle strength testing lol
I allways feel weak after reading the really long posts. What do you make of that? whats wrong with me?

Content could make you weaker. Your perceptions on it could. Not liking reading ong posts and reading could. :)

Believe it or not you can muscle test writing. Sounds wako but I have done it blind with consistent results. First time I did blind was at a workshop I was running. Write 'soy' on a piece of paper and water on another and put in identical envelops. Test and if you test correctly you should get very consistent results (if someone is over hydrated or their electrolyte balance is out they could test weak to water) Testing, unless done specifically for other wise is always right now in the moment. If you ate three apples and then tested with an apple, you would likely get weak. Where you may get strong another time. It is about right now.

I know most of you will say that is not possible as it doesn't fit in your belief structure. I still have a hard time wrapping my head around it but results talk. I go be results over anything said..

Actually norm I love leonard cohen music.....not for training to obviously, but the guy is a lyrical genius.

Ha ha maybe I should listen to him to come out to the ring to at my next fight...might make my opponent weak...hehehe. Might also piss some of the judges off and even the ref though.

I used to listen to Cohen almost 25 odd years ago. His music was depressing and made me feel better about myself! I became aware of him thru his album "songs from a room". Thinking about that title suggests he didnt get out much and thats depression related eh Mark L . Actually i was told that many suicides owe their existence to his mournful ballads. (Long posts have a similar effect lol)

If you go out to one of his tunes may i suggest a couple to get you in the mood ok. "passing through" ought to get the crowd cosy and cheerful, or the more popular "bird on a wire" if youre wanting to make a big splash :) personally i would go with a beatles song. but thats just me.

wonder what effect the actual MT round music has on most people... and thais vs. non-thais

I have gotten used to hearing this music but many newcomers hate it-especially the first 50 times they hear it screetching away- "like fingernails on a chalkboard" ive heard them say.The music is supposed to tell the story of what is happening in the ring and is supposed to mirror that activity and not be the cause of the it.

When this aspect is taken into consideration it becomes obvious that pre recorded music has little bearing on something that is happening in the ring at that precise moment.But if it makes it seem more like Thai Boxing then why not i say!

I love 'If it be your will' especially off the 1994 live album. Thing is although his style is low and slow and in a folk syle . His songs are like poetry and he has quite a few poetry books out. His songs are about love and loss and death...like most great writers.

I like the thai music especially as it picks up pace in the later rounds ...Ithink it helps keep a nice rythem to the fighting.

If you count the beat of music that an opponent is marching to then you can interupt their rhythym and thats exactly what the very best fighters i have sparred have done with me in a training session. When they detected what beat i was working to i was made to look like a rank novice. I got hit by Ray Sefo with six of the slowest and most casual of jabs when he hit me on the half beat or inbetween beats that he knew i was operating on. I could see the jab coming but it was like i was stuck in pause mode and couldnt do a thing about it!

I like Cohen but havent listened to him for a lomg time.good seeing you write your stuff on here Hamish and when your a Professor i can say i knew that guy!

Good point norm.

I was sparring with doug viney, even though hes much bigger than me and I assumed slower than me, he was able to utilise punching off beat and was catching me all the time. It was real fustrating. Cool to see him win the K1 vegas and get into the 16 man elimination.

Its cool seeing your stuff on here Norm. Youve got a lot of knowledge to share.

I learnt my stuff from out of a mickey mouse comic strip- or was it spiderman? anyway it works for the likes of
Ray and Dougie and i can name a few more guys, like that bloody Rebel you train with eh hamish :)

Dougie was the first and only clubmate (at the time)-(before Rebel took over the role of "tormentor of the elderly" ) to knock the wind out of me when he became facinated with the idea of throwing a straight righthand to the body. He was like a kid in a candy shop when it came to sparring sessions and i dont think he fully realised he was quite a strong lad, and his 90kg powering into my 70kg gut made him smile and laugh out loud, so at least i came in handy for something!

And by the way Mark.L, what happens when you do the muscle test thing when reading Hamish's posts? and what about my posts?

I have heard someone say that my posts look like they have been written by a drunk! Is it that obvious?

lol, I have not tested. one cool thing is that as you get use to the subtleties of the body, and say you muscle test lots, you can start to feel being weaker or stronger before having the test preformed. My gf for example often says she feels weaker or stronger before I test her and she tests herself just by tuning into her body.

You can test for the strength or level of truth in the words. I know for many of you you just think thats even crazier but (have I said before?) you can write a word on a piece of paper and muscle test and get consistent results.

I have done that with vegetarians. Had vegetarian written on a piece of paper and grass fed, non-medicated beef written on one. Though beef doesn't test strong for all I have yet to find someone that tests strong to vegetarian.

"Power vs Force" - Hawkings talks about how to calibrate levels of "truth" and the book has been tested chapter by chapter, paragraph by paragraph and sentence by sentence and rewritten accordingly to calibrate a very high level.

The US constitution calibrates very high also (of course it is not followed almost at all).

It also talks about calibrating humans.

A bit crazy? It is to our programmed minds. So was the world being round and so they thought of Galileo. The moons he claimed surrounded Jupiter (I think it was that) he saw with his telescope. All the educated people were programmed not to believe it and you know what? They wouldn't even look through the telescope.

What I find with muscle kinesiology is that it is extremely consistent and experience shows me it to be accurate. My programming fights it for sure as it is not in my understanding or belief system.

But i have learned that personal experience is mor important than what was programmed into me as a child. Of course that programming still effects me as it effects all of us IMO&E

They talk about calibrating human beings etc too.

Come on Mark.For scientific purposes i am wanting the test results of your muscle testing when reading Hamish's posts- even a short one if you can find one lol

also, if there are both good(true/accurate) and bad(bullshit/false) statements contained within the one post, then what happens?

I have a freind that was instructed by his dad to "question everything before accepting anything". The trouble with this advice is that my freind never beleives anything,ever! even after all the research has been done and the evidence is seemingly overwhelming.

It is glaringly obvious that you and Hamish have both been drinking from different cups, but all roads lead to Rome!

I studied Structural kinesiology and never read anything about this muscle testing

kinesiology is the study of movement and muscle kinesiology would be the study of muscle movement.

One thing I find interesting is that if you testing someones response to a written word, then what happenss if you write the same word but in a different language. like beef.

Then beef in spanish etc. so its not testing the object that the word describes but just the word itself.....So the person tests weak to letters on paper.


Has this got anything to do with rock music??

I would still have henry rollins on my team rather than andrew loyd webber lol.

I thought I remember you saying mark something along the lines that money tests weak but then someone posted that that did not occur for them ...but you explained that.

So ....how is that again? Is that consistent? Reliable or personally skewed and interprative to suit self.

All roads lead to Rome - love it!

Norm - not sure what you are asking - I am saying from my experience results are consistent. You can either look into the research or try your self...

Or are you asking regarding testing the posts?

If so I am not overly interested in doing that.

Also, time wise, to get self out of the way is important in muscle testing self. It is very consistent testing someone else, testing your self can be trickier. I don't think any of the books I mentioned talk about it.

The first time I really got into it was I was doing a one on one session with a teacher in California. He used it on me to find some suppressed stuff in me. After he taught me a little and I tested him for his age. I was surprised at what I got as I thought he was older.

Money testing weak - I don't remember someone saying they didn't test weak. However it is very likely that many don't test weak. I never said, or intended to say, that money makes you weak. In my experience, many people test weak to money.

The key is in the question. You can hold an apple and with no words test to see if the body responds strong or weak. Some will test strong and some weak.

Soy, in my experience, has never tested strong on anyone I tried.

Usually with food I will have someone make a statement. "Soy is good for me" Soy is bad for me."

I have tested people strong and weak on money.

Money I simply have them hold and many people test weak.

This is related to their thoughts and beliefs about money. If in your programming there is "writing on your walls" that says "Rich people don't go to heaven" or "money is the root of all evil" etc then one will test weak. Maybe their believe system is that they don't deserve money.

You can test amounts of money. And see at what point a person tests weak.

After tapping on the belief systems they almost always will test strong for higher amounts.

If you don't believe you are worth something (money, relationship etc) and you have it. The subconscious mind will create ways of sabotaging...

More people can probably relate to this with relationships... we do things and we don't know why, that create problems in the relationship.

If someone is starting a new personal training business and wants to charge $75 an hour but somewhere in their subconscious they don't feel their skill set is worth that or they have belief systems that say money is bad, they may test weak.

After digging around to find the issue and clearing it out you find they test strong to the amount after...

Not everyone tests the same to everything.

I have gotten consistent results of people testing weak to soy - even if they believed it was good for them. You have to know what you are testing for and you need to be specific with the questioning/wording much of the time.

With soy (and vegetarian) I have tested blind with just the words and I have tested making statements of soy is good for me and bad for me. Always consistent for me thus far.


You calibrate on a known answer to make sure the body is responding clearly or strong enough that you can gage a difference.

"My name is ____" (say name)
"My name is Jongsanan"

If you get strong and then weak you know the body is responding correctly and that it is responding strong enough that you can gage.

Then you can ask, make statements, hold foods etc and see what happens.

Rock music - simply test with no music, get a base line, and then play rock music, or any other form, and test again.

Results here could be effected if someone had a bad experience while listening to that song maybe...

The studies they have done on it have been with loads of people with consistent results.

I know a couple people that have done testing with weight lifting, these guys lift big time and know loads about it. They tested lifting with music (not just "muscle testing". Same results. pound for pound these guys rival Olympic lifters... and train many elite professional athletes.

"Your Body Doesn't Lie" has a chapter on music if I remember correctly.

Different language is a stretch to our belief system for sure.
You can test the body to any language.

Some interesting insights can be gotten from Dr Emoto's work with water and written words.

You could write soy in any language, have in a sealed envelope and test a person.

check out hado.net for the how written words affect water (body is mostly made of water)

https://www.hado.net/watercrystals/index.php then click on words and see what the water crystals look like with different words written on the bottles before freezing.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8411704163570906566&hl=en
5 minute video on the process of photographing the water crystals

His books cover the photographed water after being exposed to different types of music also.

maybe your testing yourself through other people.

maybe your presence is affecting their results.

Maybe your voice reminds them of someone who annoys them.

Seems very open to interpretation and very unscientific. Theirs so many factors at play and working ....I mean what are you really testing???

Strength....not really huh.

Are you testing their muscle strength.

Muscle fatigue.

Muscle speed.

The speed at which he action potential can be generated to induce contraction and therefore the nerves attached to those particular muscles?

Which muscle groups? or isolated muscles?

Are you taking out external stimulus?

Are they tested at similar times of day?

Have they eaten similar things when being tested or prior to being tested?

What is the comparison against?

When do you retest and how many times?

When they are tested how much time is allowed for muscle to rest?

Some of the stuff that Im reading borders on religous faith healing claims.

You know 'choose to believe' and ye of little faith.

Fruity.

I dont know a couple of people testing to music with some pre expectations and just a matter of opinion.

But I have seen the results of many experiments and tests done by people with no expectations and with great recording and measuring equipment which have shown that rock music and or music that the person being tested with finds motivational, makes them stronger and gives them more endurnce.

If I run and im an elite athelete, I find I get faster times when listening to music on my ipod. Ive talked to other elite atheletes and they have found the same.

so theirs a litle experience backed up by a whole lot of research.

It is possible to influence the test. My programming says its crazy and my ego certainly doesn't like it either (fear).

That is partly why I have tested for myself, for my own experience, it done where myself and the subject knew not what was being tested. Again consistent results.

I can certainly intentionally affect the results and it is possible unintentionally.

What is used to test results is relative strength.

Times of day can affect some things. Say food for example (like I mentioned above). If apples are good for you but you just ate 10 of them you will test weak as at that moment an apple isn't good for you. When testing food and substances the test is in the moment.

Voice is not an issue as you calibrate first with a known. Truth and false statement with a name for example. once I got wrong a weak response when I got the guy to state his name (this could mean the body is "reversed"). He told me after that that was the name he went by but was not his real name. We tested with his real name and got a strong reponse and then weak with a false name.

So you always make sure you are getting clear responses. If voice was getting in the way it would then.

Comparison - easiest way. Opposite statements. "Soy is good for me" and "soy is bad for me" and see what the body says.

So the difference, if you can feel one, tells you regardless if they are weaker or stronger at different times of the day or other stimulus.

florescent lighting - many will test weak when on and stronger when off...
If they are that sensitive to it it could effect the test (reverse them) You may get weak and strong backwards. Again, the reason you simply check first.

I had a client that I had to turn off the lights as it was effecting the work we were doing. Some people are so sensitive to electromagnetic fields that to regain health and strength they pretty much need to stay away from them for a time and rebuild their health before being re-introduced.

Dr Emoto shows what happens to water exposed to types of electromagnetic fields.

Resting the muscle is not a big issue as it is relative strength. As the muscle fatigues it will still be relatively stronger or weaker.

Some people respond so strongly that there is little skill or sensitivity needed by the tester. If you are testing with the arm out to the side, it almost drops. People who are sensitive to their bodies and in tune can often feel the strength difference before the muscle is specifically tested.

Ways I prefer to test with clients - the muscle won't fatigue in a session. The arm out to side test is just easiest to explain.

Retest - hell, as much as you want.

religious faith healing - the power of the mind is amazing and we aren't even tapping into near its potential. My personal opinion on religion is that it serves a purpose. if it is right for an individual, great. If it is serving them, great. religion is not for me (at least at this point in my life). The pain of judgment I learned from it served to lead me to learning how to judge less.

Muscle testing, though not within our childhood programming, isn't about healing. It is about how the body responds.

Hard western science shows how neuro-peptides that go with different emotions go into the cells all over the body.

They use to think that the "molecules of emotion" were received on the receptor sites on the cells in the brain. It turns out though that everywhere they look, the cells have these sites.

What that means is that every single "molecule of emotion" is felt in the body.

For example. The immune system cells have all the receptor sites for the peptides released with anger, sadness, fear, joy, happiness etc

So do the muscles and brain etc

They have also done studies that show the cells and DNA is differctly effected by thought.

Taking a scraping from a subject. Put in a dish. Watch the DNA and have the individual think different thoughts and remember positive and negative memories and the DNA winds unwinds etc

"Molecules Of Emotion" Candace Pert (she is a bit of a super star in the scientific community to do with peptides etc)

Dr Bruce Lipton has a load of great work as well.

The mind is strong - if it motivates you you may be stronger than when not motivated. Doesn't have to mean it makes you stronger.

power of the mind
placebo effect - written off by "science" as it doesn't serve in making products

Nazi's did placebo operations on the Jews (etc)

Someone had a health issue - they knocked 'em out - cut them open - did no op - stiched them back up - 63.5% (number on memory) success rate.

This, in my opinion, shows the power of the mind and the body-mind connection and ability to heal.

Dr Perts work clearly shows scientifically how thoughts and emotions have direct effects on the body.

Imagine if the possibilities were considered and tested...maybe they turned out to work and maybe not.

When we come from a place of "knowing" (what we were taught or believe already) there is no possibility of experiencing something new.

Imagination is more important than knowledge

I believe Dr E said this because knowing is limited to what we already believe and therefor we cannot move forward. imagination is limitless and with it we may find new possibilities to arise.

"knowledge" changes constantly. The world is flat was a "known" belief. It was fact. Imagine if the "knowers" got on a boat and took a look... Maybe they would decide it is flat, maybe not.

Change is always ridiculed as it challenges what is already "known".

All I know, is that from my experience, it gets results. I intend to be open to the possibility that that may change or that the results are for other reasons.

Evolutionists looking with science to prov e evolution will succeed. Creationists looking to prove creation with science will succeed.

They both know and are looking for something and find it.

I wonder what might be found if they wondered and were curious...

I think you will find that evolutionists were the ones wondering and this lead them to their discoveries based at first on what darwin noticed in the galapogos islands......so i think thats where wondering can get you.

Still doesnt explain to me what aspect of the muscle you are testing in the muscle test.

And certainly has shown me nothing to think that these 'tests' are done under conditions that prevent outside influence from consistently altering results...and because of this are they really repeatable??

So what are you testing again

Are you testing their muscle strength.

Muscle fatigue.

Muscle speed.

The speed at which he action potential can be generated to induce contraction and therefore the nerves attached to those particular muscles?

Which muscle groups? or isolated muscles?

And based on this so called result as interpreted by you ......you get results that match your beleif system...wow there is a suprise!!

Wonder what part distraction plays in muscle strength.

wonder if thinking about money distracts people from the task at hand.

wonder if that may be the reason that some seems weaker when thay think about money.......simply distracted.....not super emotional muscle crystal reverse soy eft dna unfolding.

Sometimes simple answers seem to get overlooked.

Dr emotos work with water and water crystals even the so called rice experimament


Even sympathetic commentators have criticized Emoto for insufficient experimental controls, and for not sharing enough details of his approach with the scientific community. In addition, Emoto has been criticized for designing his experiments in ways that leave them open to human error influencing his findings.

In the day-to-day work of his group, the creativity of the photographers rather than the rigor of the experiment is an explicit policy of Emoto. Emoto freely acknowledges that he is not a scientist, and that photographers are instructed to select the most pleasing photographs. Emoto says that he selects the photos that he wishes for consistency. This is an explicit admission of observer bias.

James Randi, founder of the James Randi Educational Foundation, has publicly offered Emoto one million dollars if his results can be reproduced in a double-blind study. Randi has also stated that he does not expect to ever have to pay the million dollars.

Dr pert did great work as a scientist and she used the scientific method to achieve everything she did with peptides.

Then she stopped using the scientific method for some reason and started guessing and making assumptions...maybe because she had fallen out with the scientific community over her involvement in the discovery of specific receptors as a phd student...who knows.

As far as Im aware she hasnt used the scientific method to give creedence to any of her newer work so is not really operating in science anymore.

The more I read about Dr Emotos work with water...the funnier I think it is that he even has one person listening to him.

The rice experiment Dr Emoto mentioned in one of his books I have tried and seen done more than once and some of my friends and students have tried. Consistent results.

Same idea as with water in that you attach a word to two jars, however they contain cooked rice. Write love and hate on the jar, let them sit and see what happens. The one with hate rots faster.

Repeatable results with muscle testing - reading any literature and going by anyones thoughts on weather it should or shouldn't work isn't good enough for me. Knowing isn't good enough for me. I want evidence from personal experience when ever i can get it. I use muscle testing almost on a daily basis.

Again, with known substances, like poisons, the body always responds weak. true and false statements are consistent also.

I will ask the clients body questions and get info about something they have not told me and then ask them...say, a trauma they may never have shared with me that happened when they were 8. Believe it or not this works for me in my experience.

What is science? The model of belief about how things work according to past dogma?

Leaving science means leaving the dogma of belief in many cases in my opinion.

Most of the greats were "outside" the scientific community. When ever studies show something that doesn't make sense within the current belief system or current science of how things are thought to work, they are ignored.

Results are more important to me than the masses belief systems, be they science or anything else.

"Believe you can and you are right. believe you cannot and you are also right."

Possibilities or limitations.

Results and personal experience is more important to me than what the church or state say.

New concepts, including new science, are always ridiculed by those who "know".

Most of the greats were ridiculed as they figured things out that didn't fit with mass consciousness and belief systems. Science is no exception.

One can choose to wonder and be curious of possibilities or one can choose to know what they know and that is final.

Its not new science mark, Dr emoto is not a scientist mark and the interesting points were

photographers are instructed to select the most pleasing photographs. Emoto says that he selects the photos that he wishes for consistency. This is an explicit admission of observer bias.

James Randi, founder of the James Randi Educational Foundation, has publicly offered Emoto one million dollars if his results can be reproduced in a double-blind study. Randi has also stated that he does not expect to ever have to pay the million dollars.

in 1992 he received certification as a Doctor of Alternative Medicine from the Open International University for Alternative Medicine in India, an unaccredited institute with minimal academic requirements.

Dr. William A. Tiller, another researcher featured in the movie What tнe Bleep Do ωΣ (k)πow!?, has pointed out that Emoto’s experiments fall short of proof, since Emoto's experiments do not control for one of the three key factors in the supercooling of water. See Tiller, William, 2005, "What the Bleep do we Know!?: A Personal Narrative", in Vision in Action (VIA), Vol. 2, Issues 3-4, pages 16-20.

So hes not even a doctor

I know that people will cling to almost anything they read.

There is a desire out there to have a beleif in something but it seems Dr (lol) Emoto is not it.

Im all about questioning what im told and seeing if it is real..doing a little research and making informed desicions. Thats me though.

Each to their own.

Is it just me or is this topic not really about rock music

Which we know is good for the soul. Nothing like skipping to motorheads ace of spades ....aye.

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/clusqk.html#EMOTO

Many of the reasons you mentioned is why I choose to come from a place of experience whenever possible.

I have done the rice experiment and seen results. I have also tested water with other methods after exposure to different stimulus. You may not like the methods but that is my experience. I go by experience over what anyone says cause everyone has opinions and researchers find what they will to find to a large degree. believing is reality for me too and if that gets me results that are benefitial to my life or what I am trying to do then I am less concerned about the mechanisms.
That said I think research etc has its place and we can choose what research fits out thinking as everyone does... I try to see if it works for me and if it benefits my life or goals. Consistent results for me I take over anyones opinions or (ever changing) "facts".

If you don't like muscle testing (I'd suggest having the experience). You could experiment with max weight you could lift two times (assuming the body is strong enough and prepared for that type of lifting) and experiment lifting with different music a few times back and fourth and over a few days. I am pretty sure it was JP Sears who partook in the experiments with weight lifting and music. JP can lift some serious weight considering he does it mostly for health. He also works with world class athletes in many areas. JP is a personal friend and teacher of mine and i trust his scientific and curious nature. He also taught me some interesting stuff on muscle testing...

For me I see people who have done saying its true and people who haven't experimented saying its not.

What kind of science doesn't experiment yet denounce a theory based on belief systems?

The kind of science that needs proof and experimentation thankfully. Thats repeatable and consistent by any one.

Luckily there have been loads of experiments on effect of music on strength and endurance...in controlled conditions with measurable results and control tests.

all proving that rock music does not make you weaker.

That motivational music which is subjective to any person....helps to do exactly that ....motivate.....so if your listening to music to train to wether it be rock, metal, hip hop, jazz, blues, classic avant garde, folk, country, pop or what ever keep doing it science backs you up.

But like I needed to even say that as most people I know report positive effects from listening to music of their choice while traing.

Good to know though aye.

Makes you wonder about any one who says other wise though. huh?

Probably been told one time to many by their parents that ozzy osbourne is the devil. lol

My training would fall to crap if I had to listen to nina hagen while I trained guaranteed.

Would distract me and irritate me to no end.

My girl friend would probably train well listening to her though.....

It is interesting looking at the effects on the body of different stimulus.

For example. In a fear state we WILL activate the body to perform better than average (though more likely to tire). However I think we can get to a even higher performance level when not in a fear state.

So I am curious how certain types of musci, though thgey may help, if they might be limiting a higher potential...

My experience showes that muscle testing is a good indicator and I would be interested in testing relative strength to different music...

I wouled be interested in seeing the studies you mention.

I am not offering facts and I am not a research scientist - some of the bookds I listed and resources get more into that. I am offering thoughtd and my experience.

Here is an example that I see very very often in my own work with clients regarding muscle testing, that to me gives it a lot of validity.

Last week i worked with a woman. we were working on some issues from when she gave birth to her child and had a brain hemorrhage etc.. One thing that came up was a feeling of lack of support from her husband.

My experience tells me that often things are compounded by past experiences.. I suspected some childhood experiences of not feeling supported that would be adding to this and it is my experience to clear those out to be very benefitial...

Anyway i muscle tested her (with no words so she did not know what I was asking or the train of thought or direction).

I asked if there was something in the past to look at - yes
If it was from childhood - yes
Before age 15 - ye
before age 10 - no
age 11 no, 12 no, 13 no, 14 yes (checked 15 nom, 14 again yes)
related to something at home - no
something at school - yes

This is all without saying a word. All I had asked is if I can ask her
body some questions...

I asked her "Did anything happen at 14 related to school"
you may say that is open ended and we all have stuff and that is ok... my experience is you find specifics very very often..

She said that was funny cause something happened then that she had never told anyone about... we cleared that out and then came back and cleared out the feelings around her husband not supporting her (part of her felt) at the birth

I have found hidden traumas this way and many specifics... usually just finding an age and who or what it related to (often get dad, mum, friend etc) is enough for them to conect with and you don't have to get more detail)

Don't believe it or me.Fine. I am just sharing my experiences for those who want to consider the possibilities that we don't know everything about the body and that science doesn'tknow everything...

we all stuck to earth before we knew about gravity...

My experience, (use with almost most clients and on an almost daily basis) is it works.

So when someone tests weak to rock music - for me that is enough to suggest it is having a negative effect. It would make sense to me to see relative strength differences between rock music and other types.. as I said before, I think some things can make you stronger in some ways... like fighting out of fear - it serves a purpose and can help... I also think it limits potential...

Maybe anyway lol