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The Ax Forum
Muay Thai & Kickboxing Forum Mixed Martial Arts Forum Boxing Forum Fight Training Forum Off Topic Forum
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Marco S
Posted: 2007-03-11 09:50:15
Broken Jaw
Hi, just wondering would if anyone has any information or experience on broken jaws. I broke mine last June. I am wondering when exactly it would be alright to fight again. I had an amature rules (headgear and shinguards) thai fight last week and it was fine but am meant to be fighting without any of the gear in two weeks and am unsure about it.
Also if anyone has any information on the causes of bone fractures as the thing was it was not such a hard kick that broke my jaw in the first place. I read somewhere that overtraining can lead to brittle bones. I found this interesting as I was overdoing it a bit at the time and from April to June last year I broke my wrist, chipped shine bone and finally broke the jaw. This was all closely after a period of what I now realise as overtraining.
Any information much appreciated, cheers..
Mark L.
Posted: 2007-03-11 10:21:06
For the second part of your question...

Health and balance (not over training). I don't think you need to look at brittle bones directly. I mean that would be a symptom of imbalance. You don't treat brittle bones, you bring the body into balance, homeostasis and grow in health.

Some other angles on healing-take it or leave it or do what you want...but if anything seems to fit might be an idea to consider..

Bones, skeletal structure, adrenals are connected also mental lathargy and incapability of inner stillness (mind races)..
possibily safety/security/survival stress and or family stress

If those seem to fit for you then you could look at approaching the healing and symptoms multidirectionally.

Another angle of possibilities is..with the itself is..
get many sore throats, neck aches possibily, thyroid or asthma issues...
possibly bocked creativity, perfectionism or inability to express emotion

If either of those seem to fit or both do then it can be wise to approach it from a few different angles.

When alright I think would be best assessed by someone who can check out out and knows something about that area more directly in terms of healing completely etc

Different ancient systems look at the body as a whole and even when its a clear acute trauma there can be issues around it that made it weak or connected to it that could limit healing (some people go a lot further on the connections)

In any case I wish you well in your healing.


Marco S
Posted: 2007-03-14 07:32:52
Well Mark L.
Actually what your sayin there I found very interesting as over the last two and a half months ive had a sore throat coming and going, couldn't train for a couple weeks it was that bad.
It seems to me what you've said there must be right. So what would you suggest as a remedy to this situation?
I study in college and train thai boxing, I dunno not much stress from that.
If your suggesting seeing some specialist do you mean like a doctor or who exactly or perhaps you know a website or something that goes into more depth in this?
I live in Ireland, wouldn't know of someone myself or never really heard of anyone who would specialise in that area.
Cheers
Mark L.
Posted: 2007-03-14 08:39:38
Marco-it all seems very strange to many and goes against what we have been told and taught but time and time again it adds up in my experience. Talking abou tthe mental/emotional/physical connections etc

If you are asking about the troat/neck stuff etc there are certainly people who could shed more light and go deeper with it for you. Finding them is a little trickier.

You won't find many docs that will agree so that wouldn't be the direction I would look.

From the neck point of view, a possible direction to look, if anything happened 2.5+ months ago that was stressful related possibly to not being able to express yourself. And or think of the neck/troat issues you may have had in your life. Biggest times you've hurt your neck or had troat issues.

What, if anything, can't you say or express? What is being held back. (expression isn't nessasarily verbal per say). Who won't listen or can't you express to? What can't be said?

I do not know if this is right for you or not but I would personal persue this line of thinking.

If its not making sense logically or you aren't recalling how this might fit in ask questions like...

(take a couple deep breaths and don't left brain this question, don't figure it out. Just see what comes to mind.)




If you knew what couldn't be said or expressed, or if you knew what was being held back from someone, what would that be?



(same type of question for who can't be expressed to... world, someone specific? etc)



This type of question, in the right setting, can lead to some very interesting revelations. With clients I'll ask and get an answer (what ever comes to mind) and then when that is worked on I frequently get results with the injury area or pain area working on. Like if getting no results on a shoulder pain or ROM etc and then work on what ever they come up with (say an emotional aspect) then often the shoulder pain will just go away.

Example
I met a very wonderful woman at a work shop. She came up front to work on back pain (hurt in a work accident and then in a car accident) I asked if we could work on emotional stuff. We didn't do any work on the physical and after we were done her backk was fine!! A couple months later some new similar emotional stressors came up and her back pain started to come back. As she delt with them the back pain went away.

I had a guy with a chronic shoulder issue. 20yrs it had been there. He attributed it to riding his motorcycle. Well I dug a little and 29 yrs ago his dad died. As we delt and released the negative emotion around that his shoulder eased up (shoulder-connected to throat/communication) We worked on a few communication things around the death issus and the shoulder pain, ROM issue etc got less and less. Again this was a workshop setting so we didn't get to go very long.

--
In my experience, even if it truely is mechanical, its worth looking deeper.

---

These two examples I use EFT for the modality...

http://www.emofree.com/Practitioners/practitioners.asp (EFTers in Ireland)

This may be good for you or not but a good EFTer should get 80-95% successful results... Your path is yours and you are always on it ;) So there for you are always on the right path. The direction you choose is perfect. (worth thinking about what your goals are of course lol)

For nutrition and health and rehab type stuff with people how either look at the mental/emotional connections or at least know about them and know who to reffer you to. http://chekinstitute.com/pracresults.cfm are some possiilities (just looked and none are HLCs...nutrition and lifestyle stuff but the level IIs should have some contacts..

Reiki
Healing Touch
NLP
Shamanic healing etc

All possibilities... but the trick is finding something or someone that works for you (I'd email a CHEK prac level II and ask who they might recommend for EFT or energy work or nutrition etc-what ever you might like to look into)

I can do stuff over the phone but I'm not set up for that yet...out of curiosity if I had a toll free number (of course you'd pay me) would that be something you might consider (for working on emotional/mental/physical 'healing' etc).. (by the way totally works for prefight nerves/fears etc etc
Barney
Posted: 2007-04-03 05:35:54
"I broke mine last June."

You broke your own jaw?
Barney
Posted: 2007-04-03 05:59:03
Just kidding.
Seriously though, it seems that with today's science fighters are able to recover better than in the past.
The guy who fought Edison Miranda got his jaw broken in lik 3 places and had titanium plates and screws and all. Then just a couple months later they were saying he was sparring and then ready to fight again. Thing is that so far he hasn't really fought yet.
The boxer Antonio Tarver had his jaw broken and went on to fight again and became champion.
I guess it would make a difference if you have the best doctors and followed the best therapy and nutrition and recovery program.
I know of a muay thai fighter whom fought with plates and screws in his jaw only a month or so after surgery and he got KOd with one good shot. Maybe not enought time to heal, or a good shot, or both. He fought again and again repeatedly after that, all fights within a month or two of eachother. I've seen videos of him taking tremendous blows on his jaw(heavy punches, shin kicks, spinning back kick right on the jaw, it made me cring knowing what very few people knew about his jaw), but he didn't go down, not only that but he was totally ok. After hearing about this type of injury and seeing it for my own eyes I'm convinced that people can fight on after such injury. Everybody is different though. I'm sure there are fighters out there with the opposite stories, fighters whose careers were over from such a injury.
Mentality must play a major part. If you are worried you will go down or get further injured it must make you more likely to go down or give in. Rather than if you say I'm not going down for nothing or nobody might help you to not give up and react to blows with tenacity rather than fear and worry.
Of course the best thing is defense and not getting hit on the jaw too much. But it is the fight game and you can't expect not to get hit.
Good luck to you Marco S
Marco S
Posted: 2010-07-10 16:44:23
**
What, if anything, can't you say or express? What is being held back. (expression isn't nessasarily verbal per say). Who won't listen or can't you express to? What can't be said?

I do not know if this is right for you or not but I would personal persue this line of thinking.

If its not making sense logically or you aren't recalling how this might fit in ask questions like...

(take a couple deep breaths and don't left brain this question, don't figure it out. Just see what comes to mind.)
**

Your path is yours and you are always on it ;) So there for you are always on the right path. The direction you choose is perfect. (worth thinking about what your goals are of course lol)

************************************

Just to bump another old thread; as regards expression of something, I think you were spot on here again.

I understood at the time there was some type of lifestyle mis-balance - my lifestyle or situation at that time did not lend itself to me achieving my goals - which in turn, I now believe, was causing an inability to EXPRESS myself as such, and this - relative to what you say above - was possibly the cause of my body being out of sync?
And thus the sore throats, injuries etc.

I believe the form of expression I wish to take was expression of something that occurs in the ring - or something along these lines.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I knew a bloke one time, kickboxer, exceptionally good - no idea what he's doing now though - but his ability to express himself physically as such, in the ring, was - awe inspiring, for me, and certainly captivating for others, I know.

This is just as regards his ability to perform, his movement and speed etc were outstanding - very difficult to hit - think Zab Judah/Mayweather type of movement, all strikes thrown with perfect balance/position etc.

The point I'm making is that it was in this regard I believe I wish to express myself - and at that stage, my lifestyle did not at all lend itself to productivity or progress in achieving a state where I this expression could be forthcoming - that is, student lifestyle is not good for serious training - and therefore the aforementioned was occurring.

What could this type of expression be labeled as?
Movement, energy, violence?
I'd be certainly more comfortable with thinking it is one of the former.
But really, what we do is an expression of our personality right?
You could say Tyson was a violent person, and he certainly expressed himself as being so in the ring - and to some degree outside it also.
..just trying understand the situation as it seems.

But anyway, I have in the past years, modified my lifestyle considerably, and it's a far cry from anything I was brought up with or did before - but I haven't got a serious injury, or injury of any kind over the last year while competing regularly - so I must be on the right path..

And then, lastly, brings me back to the question.
What defines our path/goal. Everyone has their own contribution to make to humanity.
Why would someone need to express themselves like so.
Why is this my goal, and not, I dunno, wanting to be a doctor or something.
I guess this relates back to what was being speculated upon in the other thread - stars, movement, influence, pre-destiny, reincarnation, God - who knows.
I'd love to find out though.
Mark L.
Posted: 2010-07-11 10:14:24
Wow... wild man. Awesome.

Thinking as I go and seeing what i come up with cause you raise some interesting thoughts...

"What could this type of expression be labeled as?
Movement, energy, violence?"

I think there is a quote something like "energy needs to express"

Energy is movement and is violence. Stagnation of energy is worse than "negative" expression of energy I think.

I suspect hitting another human being and putting yourself in a situation where you will be damaging the body has certain consequences to our consciousness/soul/higher Self and or the connection with the body and ego (if any of that exists or holds truth). That said I don't think fighting as a sport is bad. It simply holds true that there is cause and effect.

Expression of energy - lets say there is some violence "wanting" to be expressed. If that is true then I say that it is likely there is blocked energy almost certainly related to pain (fear/shame) or pain plus programming (life experiences, being taught, modeled behavior etc. Getting it moving or out is "good". How you do it is good or bad based on your own judgments of what is supposedly good or bad.

One might be able to find some sort of therapy, one might be able to do some looking inwardly, one might slowly balance indirectly through balancing the mind/body etc whatever...

Those things are not going to work for everyone and certainly not everything.

IF there was stagnation of energy that "wanted" to move from past experiences it seems to me the ring is quite a cathartic place to do it.
One of my teachers, who has boxed and trained Olympic boxers, suggests that all fighters have Dad issues and once resolved will no longer want to fight.

Now forget about all that. It doesn't matter if its true or not. IF there is anything there creating violence then the ring seems like a fucking great place to express it safely without abusing another human being or living thing and while doing way less damage to one's own psyche.

Now maybe it is not violence, maybe it is movement and maybe your body for what ever reason needs to move (all bodies do) and it needs to move big (probably cause our society moves so little (chairs, cars, desks, offices, TV etc) and this is the form of expression that works for you... fucking eh lol

Maybe neither, maybe both to greater or lesser degrees....

I think by looking at thing in terms of energy, balance and cause/effect they become much more simple as there is less story to confuse things...

So could the words purpose and destiny be the story that confuses that energy needs to express, energy is movement and is expression (regardless of level of truth in any different story).. hmmm it seems when you believe something your brain shuts off to thinking about it logically... seems backwards but if I let go of all my beliefs would I be more likely to see, experience, gnow a closer level of Truth?

lol thanks for getting my thoughts flowing.. I feel I get somethings a little more...(who knows if I do lol)

Mark L.
Posted: 2010-07-11 10:20:01
"All roads lead to Rome."

No matter what way you go on a spectrum of relative opposites there seems to be a pull back to center. Or another way of looking is it comes full circle.


Mark L.
Posted: 2010-07-14 08:40:41
I think I'm mistaken...

I think violence is violence in that even channeled through sport the energy is going to have some of the same effects.

I actually think, haven't said here before, that sport fighting is at conflict with some really deep part of self. I am not saying I think it is bad as I don't feel there is judgment that needs to put it.

Nephilim
Posted: 2010-07-20 08:46:41
dunno if it's been mentioned - but it could be something as simple as you having your mouth wide open when you got kicked - makes it much easier to break apparently.

At least that's the info I picked up from a bunch of local chavs who regularly jump strangers. apparently they always ask a question before hooking someone so that they catch them with their jaw unbraced.

Could be something they've just made up but it kinda makes sense to me.
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Mark L.
Posted: 2010-07-20 18:43:40
\physically.? absolutely!
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