Fight? or Interclub? .............?
Ive been a campaigner for Control at Interclubs for Years, and as of last couple, the Likes Otf Dazzathai and Myself paying to have Medical personel in attendance ( the way ahead imo )
But i can only vouch for the Northwest where the Interclub scene is Massive "!
many events having from 40 to 100 bouts in a day wow !

Anyway got this today and PLEASE !!!!!!!
no retaliation?
just an `explanation` please ref:
one gyms / camps overview relationg to Fight? or Interclub?

Thankyou, sandyman holt
( please debate and answer without falling out cheers )

At a interclub that we attended yesterday, we travelled to Northampton with 10 fighters and lots of parents a few being there first time at an interclub.
We were told by martin from Northampton Muay Thai that it was to be a very light spar, no head hits as they didnt have any medical staff, we had to be there by 11am for weigh but the first fight didnt actually start till 2pm, we was quite shocked by the fighting,there wasnt any rules, everyone from 5yrs old up were doing head hits there was no protective head or body protectors, it was vertually a underground Thai fight.
Obviously we will never attend another of there interclubs.....

I do apoligize for the late start, we had
a printed list of fighters prepaired.On the sunday we were let down by a few gyms and other fighters turned up out of the blue.The only person who was hurt was,
Dean James and that was an accident.Beginers with no ex
cant relax really and its them who go crashing in even tho
i told everyone to calm down.
Also Muay Thai is a tough game and i wouldnt want any of my fighters
to not be able to take the knocks.
Interclubs in my view is a way to see if your up for a real fight
not just for money making or for putting trophies on the mantel piece.
Some gyms loved it and some didnt

Shouldnt this conversation be held behind closed doors fella's?

I agree that medical assistance should be there as a matter of caution....but I can also see NMT's side of the arguement that this is supposed to be a transition towards a fight and not just glorified sparring/getting a trophy.

Lets not be too dramatic Sandy, RE: "vertually a underground Thai fight".
You have been in the game long enough to know whats involved and whats a possibility.
If you had an issue about that it would have been better aired at the venue face to face with the organiser...or, at worst, even by e-mail (but you lose that face to face connectivity and body language).
Making a specticle on a public forum is not going to take the sport forwards.

Jai dee.

Also Sandy i would like to add that Dazza has changed the
way i think about interclubs and Juniors fights.
Before all i wanted was 5x3 full on Thai rules for everyone,
But Darren made me see the light and youve got to respect him because
he has great young fighters at his gym who are tough and have been brought up on
wearing full protection with no head con. So Stu Davis good job you didnt come to our last one

I was at the interclub on Sunday and will make the following points:-

Ryn reffed the first bout between Danny and Luke and I don't think anyone could say that this was anything but poure class.

martin reffed the next few and kept the control excellant

liam reffed the next few, including the first junior one with head contact. Th head contact was excessive, with to be honest very little technique, but as soon as Martin saw it he asked Liam to clam it down, which he did try to.

An observation for one of my parents "as soon as the kids start doing head contact the technique goes out of the window"!

This was true, also there were a few gyms there that don;t do thai and they were getting mashed with knees, not ahrd knees but they couldnt deal with them. There only ans was to put the heads down and swing!

I wasn't going to say this, but to be honest, there was some poor technique on show on sunday. If people were getting hurt it was in the main becasue they had no idea how to defend and not because the other person was going in to hard! Some very basic mistakes were being made and I found it a bit shocking.

I know that part of the reason for the late start was because one gym simply decided to pull ut 12 fighters on the morning. All the bouts were prematched, but the pullout resulted in it almost being completey re arranged.

Some instructors need to look at themselves and the caliber of student they were putting out! One gym in particular had no idea how to stand. Iwatched two of their lads warm up and it was unbelievable.

I don't like to say these thing out loud, but feel I needed to as it would appear someone is having a pop when it wasn't needed.

Sandy, you know I was there, before posting something like this, woud it not have been a good idea to ask me.

In addition to me, John Jarvis, Keiran Keddle, Rayn Rudkin, Mark Barlow, Liam Robinson, John Graham and quite a few more other instructors were there also. None of us were moaning

this was Martin's second interclub, and we all know they are not easy to do!

Weigh-in was at 11am sparring due to start at 1pm but started around 1.30-1.40pm i wouldnt say that is excessive, it did go on a long time not because of massive gaps but due to the number of bouts. I jumped in and refereed and the people i asked said i did a good job and i only asked people whos opinions im actualy bothered about. I asked every instructor and boxer before the bout what rounds they were doing and what contact they wanted. There was no-one there sparring at 5years old, they were at least 8 or 9 and i spoke to both corners at the end of the first round and asked if they were happy with the contact to which they said yes. I talked the younger boxers through the bouts and encouraged them to kick and jad and teep and not to throw haymakers, nobody was hurt in these bouts, the only person that i called a premature end to was a boxer from Sukothai against one from GFC not because he was outclassed but because he couldnt defend himself against the clinchwork of the boxer from GFC, this was agreed with Lorne and at his request.
It was a long day with too many gyms and fights but it was a good learning experience of what gyms to invite next time and knowing who will actually show up with boxers on weight you could kick it off bang on time no weigh in and only use the gyms that can actually string a few decent techniques together.
I saw a couple of excellent fighters from Crawley one is already well known but another is relatively new and was very strong.
I must say Kieran Keddle and Darren Philips were excellent throughout the whole day. Martins wife is actually qualified in medical profession had their been any accident but there wasnt. ive seen kids much younger who are far more powerful in 4 oz gloves in bangkok going toe to toe for 15 minutes only last month and no-one was hurt. I cannot see how a 20kg 8-9yr old can throw a 12oz glove with enough venom to seriously hurt anyone but there wasnt many junior head contact bouts and only 1 under the age of 12.
There were some class bouts with people gaining valuable experience including 3 lads from my own gym one who fought twice one fought 3 times. You could make an excellent interclub with strong decent fighters using an handful of gyms. Were good boxers put out from the following gyms and some from the last interclub who would make up a good interclub or show with just these few...
GFC
Sukhothai
NMT
Naksoo
Dean Whites
Kieran Keddles
Singto
Crawley
Assasins
Sor Khamsingh
Pra Chao Suua
East Area
KO
Are there any instructors from these gyms who had a problem with the sparring and who would not have the bottle to bring it up on the day??? No

I have done 6 interclubs and treated everyone as a learning curve and too see if i have improved.Also,To test myself.
This is the idea? For all concerned for trainers to see if your students are improving and what ability they have?
I would agree with Darren on the fact that a lot of technique is lost and tends to be "big" swingers and this comes back to bad preparation of students and what they are being taught? I think there are too many gyms "popping up" teaching thai boxing(are they?).
I think interclubs on the whole are run very well and are safe and controlled,It is a contact sport after all.Maybe need to whittle the number of bouts down as well.

Just a opinion.
Thanks,
Phill "chalky"

Sawatdee Khrup!

Interclubs are something that we have created in the West to facilitate the following:

Extra income for our respective camps
An opportunity to showcase our camps and fighters
Opportunity for up and coming fighters to gain a 'resemblance' of experience
Opportunity for non-fighters to test out their skills in a 'safer' envoiroment

As interclubs are normally advertised as no win no lose I fail to understand why there are different levels of contact.

A full contact or 'heavy' contact interclub is unecessary and certainly should not be allowed without ambulance, doctor, para-medics in attendance.

Personally I feel all interclubs should be with full protection i.e Head-guard, 14oz-16oz gloves, body armour and shin pads

Controlled technique is a sign of a good fighter and instructor/camp

If a camp wants to put on hard contact or full contact then this should be done as a show.

There is available amateur, 'C', 'B' AND 'a' (FULL RULES) Class fights to all 'fighters' so there is absolutely no need for heavy contact bouts.

Personally I belive t is the responsibility of the organiser and the referee for the safety of their attendees. I understand that there wil e injuries and occasionally someone will go 'heavy handed' but the referee should recognise if someone is 'outclassed' or if it is out of hand and act appropriately by either warning (1 warning is enough) to ease down or to simply stop the bout.

Leave the heavy/full contact for the Nak Muay, interclubs are little more than a step up from controlled sparrein.

SHAUN

In saying the above I would like to add that the interclubs I have attended over the years:

Arjarn Sken
Kru Steve Logan
Kru Gary Wright
Kru Bill Judd
Kru Sandy Holt

These have been well organised and the safety of the 'fighter' was paramount

The above have a wealth of experience as I am sure do many camps that put on these shows. It just seems that lately everyone wants to do their own interclub (and this is a good thing) but as more of these 'first timers' prop up there seems to be little consistency.

Everyone wants to showcase their event as being one of the best and I can understand this but to be honest we really need to be careful when we offer 5 rounders and different levels of contact, this is opening up the proverbial 'can of worms'

We have rules for Amateur and pro I belive their should be set rules for Interclub too (why should they be any different)

My idea is simply this (but of course this is only one idea)

ADULTS
Controlled contact (especially to the head)
No elbows
No knees to the face
Full protective equipment:
14-16oz gloves (16oz if over 80kg)
gum-shield
groin box
body armour
shin pads

CHILDREN (Under 18)
As above but 100% no head contact
(Head gear and gumshield still mandatory in case of accidental strikes)

Rounds = 3 x 1.5 mins for adults 3 x 1 min for children

There should be no exceptions to these rules.

In addition all clubs should ensure proper insurance covers them in the event of injury this is also the responsibility of the 'host' club

Gentlemen, Heavy contact interclubs really need to stop now! The future of Muay Thai (sport) is being showcased and responsibility lies with you. Lets treat interclubs as they are, light contact sparring sessions to enable the less experienced student to showcase and test their skill against other likewise students.

Keep the 'wannabees' and 'bullies' out they can 'test themselves under full rules or amateur rules

Interclubs are not a competition and are not about winning

The above are just my thoughts interpret them how you will,I just personally belive that we all have a responsibility to our sport/art and above all our students

SHAUN

post script

As a post script to my comments I just want to clarify that non of the above is aimed at NMT or any one in particular for that matter (I wasn't there so have no rights to comment) I am just jumping on the band wagon to voice my (hopefully humble) opinion regarding interclubs in general.

SHAUN

under 18 no head contact? i had a 14year old spark a fully grown man all over in b class, if he were doing junior still he would be junior champion but who cares cuz he would get spanked when he changed over to adult fights with his guard at his waist, this is nothing 2 do with interclubs but in general i think we have gotta toughen up the fighters or send the ones who dont wanna fight proper rules to do karate or something or uk will never catch thailand,france,finland,belarus

post script also lol not directed at shaun as i like his attitude towards MT and judging etc

Guys not wanting to jump on bandwagon too much but i have heard of adult 'interclub fighters' in the North West from a number of different Gyms who have done 18-20 interclubs without stepping into the real ring???
Are these rumours true?
If so what is all that about?? Is this a sub circuit?

I agree with all the points raised above, I have attended at a few Camps interclubs last year and also held 2 myself in October 07 and January 08 i have found them all to be different levels of Contact, however all have been well refereed, the fighters and camps have mostly conducted themselves well and in line with the spirit of the interclub.

I personally dont let the adults throw head hooks (haymakers)at my interclubs, kids no head contact, body shields for juniors all mine will wear them - up to other trainers if they want to explain to a parent why their kids are bruised up!!

I spoke with Steve Logan at 1 interclub last year and prepped him as to the level of contact i had previously experienced at a similar one - at least he knew before he let his guys go in there, not full fights but nearly, i knew what to expect and my guys were up for it Steve thanked me for letting him know!
There were no kids fighting on that one so no problem there.

I will go and support that particular interclub again because i know what contact level to expect and will only take those i know will be able to handle it, the rest i will take to other interclubs where again- i know what to expect.

Bottom line is talk to the host instructor and find out the contact level before hand as not all are the same...

A friend of mine that trains in MMA, told me that in interclubs in MMA the guys can and do get KO'd. Wtf's that about.

I can understand where people are coming from on the levels of contact, and going in to a situation with your eyes open, but if the individuals are just looking to use brute strength rather than technique then it may as well be a fight....whichever disapline you are doing.

I think there are some people who go into an interclub with the mentality that it's a fight and go in all guns blazing. They won't call it an interclub, they will call it a fight, which it technically isn't, it should be just sparring (imho). Why would you go into an interclub thinking "I'm gonna knock him/her out" when there is no decision at the end anyway? What would you gain from it?

It should be an experience of being matched up to what level and weight you are at and sparring with someone you have never sparred with to learn something from, not to knock 10 bells out of each other for the sake of it!

I am not aware of any adults who have done as many interclubs without actualy doing a fight, although I would not actually see anyting wrong with that. So long as he told the truth when it came to an interclub and didn't lie. If the bloke wants to have a spar with people from different gyms without actualy going to fight, why not. It may seem a bit daft, but there may well be a good reason why he can't fight that could be non medical. But I am not aware of an adult.

kids yes, I have a lot of kids, some with other 20 interclubs some with more. Some of these don't want to do a decision fight, some of these kids don't want them to do a decision fight but are quite happy to do an interclub, so why not. you can't make someone fight. But again I NEVER lie about a fighters exp or for that matter their ability. I also include interclubs in a fighters exp when giving them to promotors

There is a great and large interclub circuit here in the North West and it has certainly helped my kids improve

the fighters who spoilt my interclub was the ones who have been training
2or3 years fit and strong but shit scared to do it for real
just bullies

Interclub attendees rarely disclose their experience record. Pre matched or matched on the day bouts are often matched by height, weight. As its intended as a learning curve it seems rarely an issue that one fighter is more experienced than the other. Control is at the behest of the referee.

Personally I have field trauma training and can happilly stem bleeding, close cuts, Ive relocated limbs and stitched and glued wounds. Medical supervision is the insurance ideal but the first responsability of a trainer is the wellfare of their fighter. There is no excuse to not have adequate training in your own right. Should a promoter provide medical cover then that must be considered very professional.

What I will say is though is that the public berating of anothers efforts is not really as constructive as possible it had been intended.

My bit over with......

shoud have had ring girl to calm atmos, she was tired from saturday. lets blame it all on smith

where was Danny Smith

An article I wrote for Fighters in November/Decembers issue might be of relevance:

COMPETING IN MUAY THAI

By Kru Shaun Boland

‘Beyond the mountains there are mountains again.’
Haitian Proverb

Muay Thai as a competitive sport began its rudimentary beginnings in the late 1920’s and progressively developed throughout the 1930’s implementing rules and regulations. Prior to this the art was forged from the battlefield and an early form of competition called Dhee Muay could be witnessed at local events, festivals and celebrations. This form of Thai boxing (or Siamese boxing as it was also known) involved very little rules other than the fight was ended when one fighter would give in. The boxers (Nak Muay) fought bare fisted and techniques would involve punching, kicking, elbows, knees and head-butting. There was no clinch work in these early bouts as this was to be developed later. As the art of Dhee Muay developed fighters began to bind their hands with hemp rope to protect their knuckles and wrists from damage, in addition to adding extra attacking strength. This art then became what is known as Muay Kaad Chuek or bound fist boxing.

In 1926 a Nak Muay called Jia Kaegkhem died in the ring as the result of a bound fist match and this was to be the beginning of the end for Muay Kaad Chuek as a mainstream competitive sport. Over the decades Muay Thai has developed into the dynamic and explosive sport that we see today.

There are many ‘full contact’ fighting sports in circulation and, to the layman, it can be very easy to be confused as to what Muay Thai is and what is not.
Within the ‘stand- up’ full contact arena some of the popular arts are:

• Kickboxing
• San Shaou
• K1
• Kyokushinkai
• Shidokan
• Western Boxing

As if this is not confusing enough Muay Thai has developed its own variety of different rules that include:

• Full rules Muay Thai
• European rules Muay Thai
• A,B & C Class rules Muay Thai
• Amateur Muay Thai
• Interclub rules Muay Thai

The aim of this article is to hopefully clarify what is Muay Thai and to discuss the pros and cons of the other ‘diluted’ rules.

Full rules Muay Thai is fought in a boxing ring over 5 x 3 minute rounds with 2 minute breaks in between. It is compulsory for the Nak Muay to wear 8oz or 10 oz gloves (dependant upon their weight category), groin boxes and gum-shields.

Some boxers wear optional anklets to give support to the ankles but these are not allowed to be padded or doubled up.

The Nak Muay fight full contact using, elbows, knees, kicks and punches and are allowed to clinch and attack their opponent. Throwing, sweeping or tripping is not allowed but the Nak Muay may upset their opponents balance by pushing or lifting them to the ground.

Other than the eyes and groin the whole body is a target and can be attacked accordingly.

Of course the rules are more comprehensive than this especially regarding scoring but the important points are highlighted.

So what of the other fighting rules of Muay Thai? Before I continue I would like to add that in my opinion if it is not full rules Muay Thai then it is simply not Muay Thai!

We in the West have ‘bastardised’ or, more politely, ‘diluted’ the art of Muay Thai to suit the following:

• Western lifestyle
• Financial marketing

For clarification here is a brief overview of some Westernised rules:

• European rules Muay Thai removes the use of elbows to the head.
• In ‘C’ Class Muay Thai there are only 3 x 2 minute rounds, knees and elbows are not allowed to the head.
• Amateur Muay Thai is fully padded including body armour, head gear, shin pads and elbow protectors and generally full rules apply (although the scoring is somewhat different).
• Inter-clubs vary in protection but are generally ‘no win no lose’ light contact bouts.

So it is easy to see how the general public might be a little confused as to what they are actually watching.

For the Thais there is only one way to fight and this is Full rules Muay Thai. However as I write this, Thailand is trying to pursue acceptance of Muay Thai into the Olympic games and this will really need to be as Amateur Muay Thai rules which has adapted it’s scoring to accompany this.

The Thai Nak Muay lives, eats and trains on the Thai boxing camp and this is their livelihood. However for the Westerner most have full time jobs to go to following their respective fights. So the need for dilution is probably necessary to accommodate this.
Therefore B & C class fights can be a good way to build up towards fighting Full rules Muay Thai (‘A’ Class) and, although injuries do occur there is less chance of lacerations from elbows or broken jaws from knees to the head.
Marketability is another factor, the K1 is a great success and, although not Muay Thai in its general format, you will see Muay Thai techniques being used (Low kicks, Shin kicks, knees). However Muay Thai is also a very marketable and exciting art in its own right and with programmes such as ‘Now is the time for combat’ and ‘Fight factor’ on Channel 5 and Eurosport respectively, it is gaining more popularity.

For those who can only dream about being a champion fighter for various restrictions and commitments they can still test out their skills at the variety of inter-clubs throughout the country.
Inter-clubs do vary in their rules from club to club but generally are light to medium contact ‘no win no lose’ bouts that last between 1 – 1 ½ minutes over 3 rounds.

For some students this can be one of the most significant events in their Muay Thai ‘career’. They get to experience all of the nerves, build up and exhilaration in a safer environment. It is important however to have some rules in place for inter-clubs so as to protect the novice from serious injury and in addition to allow them to enjoy their bout without fear of serious harm.

I personally believe that all inter-clubs should insist that each student is fully padded up, head-gear, shin pads, and body armour in addition to gum-shields, groin protection and a minimum of 14oz gloves.

Full power shots, especially to the head should be discouraged. The idea being that students can put into practice what they have learned under some pressure but without fear of injury. Thus allowing them to return to work the next day and boast of their exploits.

I have noticed that some clubs allow the fighters a choice to use full power, offering different levels as an option and I personally think this is both dangerous and irresponsible. If the student is injured during one of these bouts they will find it very difficult to claim compensation. In addition, any full contact bout ‘must’ have a doctor, first-aid team and ambulance on their premises. This is the responsibility of the promoter/organiser to ensure full heath and safety regulations are adhered to.

To be honest if a student wishes to fight full power then the opportunity exists in the ring using full Muay Thai rules. As with all contact fights, rules are in place not just to ensure fair play but to also protect the fighters.

So to sum up, if you want to fight Muay Thai then you have to fight full rules Muay Thai anything else can only come second best to one of the most exhilarating, exciting, dynamic and devastating martial arts in the world today.

Elbowsmashingkneecrashingfistthumpinglegkickingopponentlickin’ – Muay Thai!

Interclubs is a way to see if your style needs to be improved, its light
sparring against differant people, gyms to compare your style to theres,
anything harder than this then it should be and classed as a fight.
Interclub and competition are in two different catergories and thats were they
should be kept, as far as the amount of interclubs a senior/junior has done
dosent mean to say they have to fight(competition) there are students who
dont want to compete but prefer to be just graded and part of my own grading
involves sparring (light continues tecnique) so interclub would most
proberbly suit that catergorie of student.
underground thai/medical teams "jesus christ" what are we getting into here
if we start getting medical teams we might as well just do a show, we dont
need them because if anyone dismisses your interclub rules of light control
then the answers simple (f**k off and dont bother coming back). excuse my
french...

Northampton Interclub Martin - Danny and team for their second interclub ever, did a fucking good job!

Those that have never put an interclub on, shut up!

As for the late start, late finish and so on.. you live and learn.. the next one will only be better.

What you have got to remember is this... who attended for a fairly new club, and only their second interclub?

KO
GFC
Singto
Naksoo
Crawley
Assasins
Sukhothai
East Area
Dean Whites
Sor Khamsingh
Pra Chao Suua
Kieran Keddles

So would that be some of the biggest most established gyms in the UK.. urm, Yes!

Will they be attending again? > I know I will be!

As for levels of contact on the day, it only takes two seconds to step in as an instructor to stop or reduce the level of contact in a fight.

Those that didnt, why not? I sure did!
_________

What seems to be the problem here? Nothing.

Having traveled throughout most of the UK, to clubs high and low, seeing many interclubs go from one extreme to the other (as far as contact is concerned)...

even at those few mentioned above (M.Sken, S.Logan, G.Wright).

I see nothing wrong with heavy or light contact at interclubs.

At our interclubs all fights are prematched and if a fighter is matched against someone who does not want to go hard.

They are given the opportunity a few days prior to the interclub to not attend, or try to get a match against someone else on the day.

The key thing here is, what ever is decided the instructors are in agreement!
____________________

If we wish to further Muay Thai in the UK, we need to adapt where possible to allow fighters to get the best opportunities to develop (of course if its adapting within the Muay Thai criteria.. i.e. not Kickboxing).

So if that means I have an opportunity on an interclub to see how my students handle real time pressure, a real jeering audience and an opportunity to have them fight over 5x 1 1/2 minute rounds (more ring time, more realistic fighting style/pace).. then as their instructor and mentor I will take that opportunity if I feel it is right for them.
___________________

Martin, Danny NMT and all other gyms out there trying to do what they can...

JUST KEEP DOING IT!

If they don't like it, someone will! ; )

I attended k star interclub last saturday which i was actually the referee.
I feel that each gym will have their only ideas over the control of contact and what rules should apply.
steve logan has excellent interclubs which 99% of'fights' are competed with control and both participants showing their techniques. unfortunetely some do think it is a fight and get carried away and go out full force,others are overcome with nerves and cannot always control their power(which will come with experience) but the majority on saturday were excellent matches.
It is the responsibility of the instuctors to teach their students who participate in an interclub that it is an interclub and not a fight.
I am sure that every interclub has a hard match in it but also has great controlled matches from juniors through to adults like i saw on saturday.
one young junior from scorpions gym(i think) stood out after competing 3 matches in a row and his technique was excellent.
Its up to each gym to set the rules and regulations but first and foremost should be the safety of all the participants.

Excellent job too Craig I might add, You kept the control down to good technique and no brawling, well done, a pleasure to attend.

The idea of these forums is to express opinion, and each of us should respect each others opinion, we do not need to agree on what is said and can comment, as gentlemen without the need for bad language or telling people to 'shut up', opinions are good as long as they do not become personal or offensive
None of us need to get into a slanging match or even need to use bad language over this and no one is having a go at Martin and his team, this is just a healthy debate about contact levels at interclubs nothing more.

What people are concerned about are the safety of their students, I still stand by the fact that some rules should be in place and definitely more protection at interclubs as chilibulldog said 'Its up to each gym to set the rules and regulations but first and foremost should be the safety of all the participants'. I am genuinly concerned for anyone participating in an interclub that advocates 'hard contact'. As I said before, we have Amateur, C,B & A class fights that are sanctioned and have correct officials, insurance and medical attendance and these are surely enough for anyone who wants to fight 'harder'.

Gentlemen, please don't let us get to the low stage where some interclubs become 'bloodfests' to satisfy the 'bloodlust' of the baying public, I am sure the majority of you understand what I am getting at and in no way am I accusing anyone of this but I just get the feel that some might not see it this way.

It will take just one serious head injury to end all this for good, let's not let our sport drop to that level for what was simply a 'controlled' contact interclub that went out of hand just for the glory of it all - I know you are more resonsible than that

Just my opinion - See you all at the Woking GFC interclub Saturday 9th February ;)

SHAUN

although i was not there, i know that martin and all at nmt are of good nature and would never allow kids or adults to get intentionally hurt, if people to get hurt you got to remember it is a contact sport and accidents do happen. all i have heard is good response from the nmt interclub.
think your words are a bit harsh sandy and you should of had a word with martin not over a public forum if you had any concerns.

Ryan rudkins a great ref was at Johns jarvis show anyway x

ok not had time to view all posts just a handful ( sorry will do later )
ok
First off can i say a BIG thanks to Martin NMT
for his professional response and a small apology if it was a bit in-ya-face ( wasnt intended, but will explain this esp: to Noi666 in my reply to his post...
see inside his post my comments cheers

NMT writes:

I do apologize for the late start,

sandy- hey this happens to many a promoter understandable, but can i ask do you guys do what i started off up here our neck of the woods "pre-Match"?
it worked for me and ask Dazza and others who followed the modern concept, it works, forgive me if you already did this, and as you say below some gyms did a no-show :-((( ( hate that)
i had 30 fighters Not turn up 2 interclubs ago i promoted, ( 2 gyms ) Yes it put a spanner a BIG un in the works.

we had
a printed list of fighters prepared.On the Sunday we were let down by a few gyms and other fighters turned up out of the blue

.The only person who was hurt was,
Dean James and that was an accident.Beginners with no ex
cant relax really and its them who go crashing in even though
i told everyone to calm down.

sandy-
On all my interclubs i have a strict protection policy, shin/ insteps
Min: 14oz gloves for men Usually 16 and 18oz if they are 90 kilos over
Ladies 12 and 14oz
and Kids Doesnt matter as they DONT do head contact
and All wear Body shields Adults and kids of course, also Headguards for 90+ % of Adults
There should be STRICT / Strong Guidelines for a "interclub" llets not forget...
its an Interclub NOT a fight, if it was a fight you would have a Doctor, Medics etc: etc:
So Lets make this clear ( promoters of Interclubs are you listening? )
as the title of this Topic Says ?
Fight or Interclub?
make your mind up??

Also Muay Thai is a tough game and i wouldnt want any of my fighters
to not be able to take the knocks.

sandy- i agree, But its an interclub not a Testing ground for Hardness, Spar hard in the Gym, then pad up Big time in a interclub, then Fight
i call it the
"1-2-3 Principle" ( as above )

Interclubs in my view is a way to see if your up for a real fight
not just for money making or for putting trophies on the mantel piece.
Some gyms loved it and some didnt

sandy- good points and cant argue martin, nice-1 But then again
your points are the opposite as thats "exactly" what Interclubs do
1. Pressure test a potential fighter ( But not every Interclubber is a Fighter are they !!!! ) Fact !
2.Every interclubber does put a Trophy on the mantelpiece ! ask the guys and gals men n women who do them and NEVER ever Fight ! its great for them !
Fact !
3.You did make money as All interclub gym owners do ! you and they and me Cannot say different ! Fact !

And Heres your Original Post right here in Black and white on AX


2007-12-28 10:07:02 ( time)


NMT writes:

NMT January Interclub

Dear Instructor

Firstly let us wish you all a happy and prosperous New Year,

We are holding our first interclub of the year on Sun 27th Jan and would like to invite as many gyms as possible.

There will be a choice of 3 or 5 rounds of 2 minutes for adults and 1.5 minutes for juniors with an emphasis on good muaythai technique,full power headshots will be a definate no no and will cause an end to the bout.

The venue will be the same as the last, Rough & Ready Gym, Spring lane, Northampton.
Entry £5.00
Weigh in will be 11.00 am with a start time of 12.00 pm.

Please forward your fighters details so we can pre match as many as possible before the event.

Thank You.

NMT.





Noi666
see Below / Inside My Answers cheers

noi666 writes:

Shouldnt this conversation be held behind closed doors fella's?

sandy- `NO` Not at All, this? Do we need to remind you / us all its a Discussion / forum?
This is a Very important Discussion Rick, What would have happened if at this "interclub" ? fight ?????? which is it ?
someone Got KO'd or even dare i say it \? ( i wont )
There has to be a discussion and a Standardisation to Whjat ? is an Interclub? whats a Fight?
and Whats acceptable ref: Contact and protection?
you all go on about Muay-Thai Judging ! Im going on here about this !


I agree that medical assistance should be there as a matter of caution....but I can also see NMT's side of the arguement that this is supposed to be a transition towards a fight and not just glorified sparring/getting a trophy.

sandy- read my comments in answer to NMT,s ref: this particular subject !!!!!

Lets not be too dramatic Sandy, RE: "vertually a underground Thai fight".


sandy- Noi did i say that?
was there Excessive contact? ( yes by all accounts )

You have been in the game long enough to know whats involved and whats a possibility.
If you had an issue about that it would have been better aired at the venue face to face with the organiser...or, at worst, even by e-mail (but you lose that face to face connectivity and body language).


sandy- good point and diplomatic Rick, but this a subject im and You and All on here who promote? take fighters to? an interclub "should" be talking / discussing this matter openly ! Why>?
well when will we all be sat around a coffee shop talking about this together?
Not too soon eh???
So thankyou Brian and AX this is a Good spot to flipping well do it !
Bring it on please ! Discuss and Sort it !

Making a specticle on a public forum is not going to take the sport forwards.

Sitting in a coffee shop in 3 years time wont either

Sabai and Jai dee we have indeed :-)
cheers
sandy McSoapBox McMad man holt

Jai dee.

Ryan thanks for your surport mate.
Also mate Dean Whites gym couldnt make it due to other commitments,
which was a shame and im sure Dean would have been happy
with the contact

good job he didnt come as we would have had to make sure we matched with one of the stronger clubs as some of those including the whingers would have got mincemeat made out of them. Reason they are on list is because they attended the 1st one and put out a strong team and would be good to have them back if theres another one.

I can see what your saying about looking after the kids etc...
Some people have the attitude thats its a "dog eat dog" world, and its survival of the fittest. Other people are trying to nurture in a softer manner and manage around excessive contact. Horses for courses.

I understand where Sandy is coming from and it is obviously hard to legislate something so subjective. However, if the people entering interclubs havent been "pressure tested" in the gym, then they are going to fold at the first sign of a challenge when matched against someone they dont know.

I think I remember on one of Sandys requests/invites to his interclub, he asked for people to note along with name,age,weight whether they were strong/average/weak (in the best possible sense)...thus ensuring he got decent match-up. Now instructors will be aware of who is "game" and who likes to spar lightly etc, so this should be an easy assessment to make. It will also direct the instructor to actually have a look at the people they are putting in, rather than just throwing in anyone and everyone as part of the "money-making scheme" some see this as.

Asking instructors ability only works if a. you trust the instructor to be honst and b. the instructor has a reference point to work from. Having said that it's better to do it than not

Some of the people I saw on Sunday were not ready to even do interclubs, but obviously their instructor thought they were, so what would they sy about thier students ability.

It's a live and learn process, not just for the student and hopefully the instrucotr but also the person putting on an interclub. Noi comes ot mine n a regular basis and he knows that we normally can trust 100% any instructor there to give a true and fair assesment of their studnet ability, but this has taken time. This time around I have some new gyms coming and I am not sure, we will see.

As you say Dazza, I think this is a live and learn process, but if an instructor asseses their students before they come and there is one guy who basically owns everyone in the gym (and gets noted as strong), and then folds against another strong sparrer from another gym, I think that not only will serve as a good learning process for the instructor and the individual, but also stem any kind of bullying mentality and put them in their place.

Is that ethical?

I am a firm believer in what goes round, comes around, so I think this would be fair. As people have said, this is a mid-way step between sparring and a fight, and it may put the reigns on someones over-inflated ego....maybe...

Wot do you reckon?

martin whos lips are these?

thats it,after all ive done for you.
Wots going on everyone picking on me about my interclub
and now Liam R moves in with an elbow to finish me off.
Remember who is the holder of the seed

NMT: We arent picking on you becasue of your interclub....maybe sandy was, but we arent!

So who's lips are they? :?

NMT As Richard said we're not picking on you or your interclub mate (I wasn't there!)as I said earlier this has become a discussion regarding contact levels at interclubs (I sent you a personal E-mail by the way, Did you receive it?).

Just to add, from what I can gather, organising interclubs can be a proverbial nightmare (akin to organising shows but I am guessing not nearly half as expensive!)and there is always going to be a bit of controversy as you can't please everyone all the time. I plan to do my first interclub later this year so you will get plenty of opportunity to get your own back I am sure! LOL

Good luck with your next one mate and like I said in my E-mail let me know when it is and we will support you!

SHAUN

from my point of view the show when it got going was well run , the reffing was spot on , no one go hurt (apart from that incident when the bully Tim kneed Dean!!!) and only his second interclub , martin done well managing fifty fights!!! ill be at the next one.

Noi those lips belong to my Thai teacher

The show went well, like kieran said the only injury was to myself which was my own fault really for walking onto a knee lol, cheers tim. i expected you too box my face off not break my body with a knee lol. I really enjoyed sparring tim it was good fun. The spar was very controlled, well done martin it was a good day out mate watching the energetic kids do there thing. There were alot of fights going on, to be honest mate i don't know how you managed to keep it flowing so well, full credit too you mate. see you soon.

Sometimes things just happen too! In my 3rd interclub i got put with a guy heavier than me,But i was ok with it.But he would NOT wear a headguard,I did wear one(as i was told too)2nd round i did a right flying punch and he was nearly out of it.I felt bad because it was a interclub! BUT He had insisted on Not wearing a head guard.Blame who??
My last interclub i got shook up,i got kicked in the jaw.But managed to shake it off.
What i am trying to say is things will happen in this sport,interclub or not.You are hitting people and being hit back!
I have always been pleased with the level of contact allowed in the interclubs i have done or watched,The refs have been "on the ball" Dazza,Ronnie Thompson,Martin(gfc?) have all done mine and been great.
It is a hard job to get the right control for the Ref,trainer and fighter/interclubber.

What if your trainer tells you to go harder? It must happen sometimes?

I think interclubs are a good test for those who can't/don't want to fight.

Best wishes,
Phill.

I have been to many interclubs over the years, mainly Junior ones, and juniors do tend to go in hard I see no harm in this aslong as the kids are evenly matched and both fighters and instructors agree. Many instructors like myself tell the juniors to hold back, if they are too strong for there opponent(this is without head contact) If junior interclubs are like spareing, what is the point in going, unless they are novices. I see the way forward, like Ryan Rudkin does, different levels of contact for begginers & experienced, juniors and adults. I took 21 juniors to Ryan's last interclub, and everyone of them begginers loved it. My experience juniors go to differnt interclubs that have more contact.

My juniors love fighting and competing if they didn't fight regular they wouldn't train.
And none of you lot who do night shows would put 10-15juniors on so they can get experience.?
Our juniors are the way forward, they need to compete. As long as there is no head contact there isn't any problem, Yes accidents do happen, you go to your local playing feild on a Saturday morning watching kids play football & rugby, there are more injuries there.
I didn't see all the bouts at northampton, but while i was there and what i saw was ok.Yes some went in hard at sometimes but the ref stoped that, my students spare harder than that in my gym. (no medical cover lol) Some love it some dont spar again, some dont come back. It is a contact sport !
I think the adults should be controlled, the juniors should be able to compete. Aslong as they are evenly matched, age weight experienced.
Thats how my daughter got so good, fighting at interclubs competing in some hard fights against boys and girls. Not one injury ! Some people dont train kids, so what do you know about it.?
I went to Steve Logans on Saturday a well controlled interclub, some of my juniors said they didnt enjoy it because they werent allowed to compete. Some of the less experienced loved it. So different levels of contact for juniors. I think that is the way forward. That is just my opinion.

"right flying punch" :)

Whats a sloth-geezer like you doing summat like that for?
HEY YOU GUYS!!!!!!
ha ha ha ha

I think in interclubs, its not a place to show-case your flashy skills or see how flamboyant you can be. The top stadium fighters rarely do any fancy techniques (apart from the likes of Saenchai, but he is another level).
We should be looking to promote strong core basics and control in everything we do.

K.I.S.S.

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

JMHO...

(No offence Chalkster!) :) x

This has been an excellent topic and it is clear to see that everyone is concerned about fighters going in scrappy and going in hard it is also evident from what I have read that the referees and organisers do their utmost to keep the fights evenly matched and at a level where both fighters are 'comfortable'.

The way forward to have different levels of contact? - perhaps, providing the referees, organisers and instructors are held accountable.

My real concern was that we were opening up a licence for a 'free for all blood-fest', however this does'nt seem to be the case. Yes it is a contact sport but Interclubs are at the very base level and should not be compared to competition par se as they should be no descision fights. Very hard to do I know as everyone, including the instructors wants to do well.

However if heavy or medium to heavy contact is a choice then the organisers must have some medical team on board, I think that should be the criteria here.

We are curently doing our inter-club circuit and will be at Woking, Bad company, Master Sken and Sandy Holts amongst others over the next few months so I should get a broad range of how they are all run and at what levels each fight at.

SHAUN

None taken Mr C. I did a right flying punch because it worked...that time.
A big old sloth looka like can get off the ground...when required ;-)
I agree "basics" work better.And i stick too it at the gym i train at.
Colin would'nt have me doing spinning and flying anything! ha ha ha

Before I make general comments on interclubs, I'll make a comment on Martin's interclub first. Although I arrived late and had only fairly experienced lads on it for a spar, from what I experienced it was well organised (particularly given it had to be rearranged last minute) and the refereeing was good. Although I don't usually attend interclubs, I have been to a number over the years and Martin's was as well organised as any I have been to previously. The injury Dean sustained in his spar with Tim's was an accident and was just unfortunate.

I understand why interclubs can be very useful for gyms, for new fighters and for those who want a 'fight like' experience but are never going to to fight. However, I generally tend not to take students to interclubs, generally preferring just to put fighters straight into proper fights. I only have a few people training at the gym and most fight, but if I had a commercial gym with ore students I would use them.

One of the problems with interclubs (and this has been the case at everyone I have been to) is not only getting fighters determine an appropriate level of contact, as this varies from bout to bout, but also decide what are acceptable techniques. For example, in sparring the rule at my gym are 1) no straight knees with the point of the knee, instead using the thigh (same unwritten rule in the gyms I have trained at in Thailand), 2) no hacking legs with strong low kicks but only controlled leg kicks that aren't going to injure legs (same unwritten rule in the gyms I have trained at in Thailand), 3) no elbowing the legs (when people are being nice and kneeing with their thighs) or kneeing the head (although they can pull an opponent's head down and demonstrate they could have kneed the face), 4) if someone gets staggered with a punch or hurt in any way, the boxer stops attacking. Different gyms have different norms for sparring and are likely to do what they normally do in sparring. When your norms are different to those of your opponent, perceptions can be that your opponent is not 'playing fair' and what was a controlled interclub bout escalates into something more excessive.

Maybe these things can be addressed by clearly outlining what is acceptable and what is not before bouts start and sent out to instructors. If these are contravened in the bout the referee warns the boxer or stops the bout. Having different categories within interclubs is perhaps also an answer. Good refereeing where the referee has real control is essential. Interclubs involving excited novices can be harder to contol than actual fights.

Noi im only having a laugh about being picked on.
I dont care what Sandy Holt thinks of me or any of his instructors
throughout his Muay Thai empire.

Anyway i shall hopefully be going to another 1 of Sandys interclubs last 1 was a blast and i was treated to Thai food on Sandy aswell.

Maybe he can match all my fighters against Stu Davis fighters.

John Jarvis had a lad fighting against Luke Philips ,both were very good lads
from a well schooled camps. Johns lad caught Luke in the face with a punch,which i warned him to keep it down abit.Then he caught Luke in the face again with a punch.Both punches were accidents and Luke didnt even blink
Darren was happy so was John, however the young lad was upset
due to me telling him to calm down
you cant win

didnt u do 2x1 min rounds up there b4? ru sure ur lads r fit for that kind of spar?

liam cud you?
dont knock it when you havent a Jar of Glue re: promoting a Interclub.

and NMT
this topic wasnt about you intentionally and lol that a few up above thought you was sulking hahaha Thats the prob with No Tone on text :-(

And all this has done is Highlight the Reasons why we ALL need to be specific and be the best as we can, and all it ever is / is lack of Communication that spoils so many things !
Hope we can all benifit from this Topic! ? !

Rich noi666 i think your harsh btw ref: spinning / jumping techniques and totally dissagree re: your points !
Coz you CAN try them in a Interclub, its a place to "try out" techniques and suchlike, coz you Wont be Punished / exposed etc: by a Ko ? or a power attack because.............

wait for it...................................






It ISNT a Fight woooooooooooooooooooooo
Its a?????????????????????????????????



Interclub / spar !


Wow !
do we get it?

Dazza you said you have got to trust what the other instructers say about their
fighters.Well you told me Luke wasnt training hard in the gym and unfit.
He done 8 hard rounds and didnt have a bead of sweat on him LOL

NMT ~ as you know I was there, I enjoyed seeing you all again, I enjoyed my spar with Connor. I am a junior I don't like wearing protection, but will if the other gym wants it. At interclubs its all about control and technique and I think we showed this in our 3 rounds.

Thanks to all NMT , Liam R and those that helpped out.

Danny

Danny it was pleasure to have you there mate.
Nice technics once again mate,Chang Mai and Lornes is good for you.
It was good to see Connor with a sweat on,it dont happen much in the gym LOL.
Hope to see you and your old man again soon

Martin

Hey Martin and if you come up again? Free Thai Food Again, this is for People whom have to travel miles to support us Thanks. And no if your local buy it like the rest lol and any Wiganers?

"Thais dont do pies lol "

ok heres am e-mail request to us re: a new club that only opened a few weeks ago and this was my reply ive cut n pasted it to show you what we are trying to do to try and be fair to all and try and get it right ! ? :p
soz for the Caps its just a cutn paste cheers please bare with us !


Hiya,

I think I've got about 7 lads who want to have a go at your interclub.

GREAT NO PROBZ

When do you need weights etc by??

A.S.A.P.
COZ AS SOON AS YOU GET THEM TO US? WE MATCH THEM
LAST IN LAST OUT OR EVEN DONT GET A MATCH :-(

I may need to take you up on that offer re borrowing body shield etc just for this one. Bit skint!!!

NOT A PROBLEM !!!!!!!! we can lend you them and headguards too ?

Will get some gloves though. What weight?
MEN 14 OZ UP TO 70 KILOS AND 16 OR 180Z UP FROM THAT !
( THEY SUPPOSED TO HAVE THEIR OWN, NOT UP TO YOU TO HAVE / buy THEM unless you have them already? and we dont provide them sorry )

They'll all v to use them though Mark the big guy says he's gonna buy his own so how heavy should he get them please?

I / WE SELL TO YOU THEY ARE TRADE INSTRUCTOR PRICE, YOU SELL THEM RETAIL in youir gym, thats the most used practice ! some gyms have funding?

THEY NEED SHIN AND INSTEPS TOO AND GROIN GURDS COMPULSORY AND GUM SHIELDS WE SAY SHOULD BE WORN
AGAIN ALL AVAILABLE TO YOU AS AN INSTRUCTOR AT TRADE / INSTRUCTOR PRICE AND SELL AT RETAIL / STUDENT PRICE ( see above )

Do they pay to enter or do people just pay to watch?? Lot's of questions! Just wanna be prepared.
Not a problem
YES EVERYONE PAYS, Unless your an Instructor and second?
ITS AN ALL SEATED AFFAIR ( MOST INTERCLUBS ARE IN A GYM & NO SEATS :-(((( ! )
ITS GOT A BAR AND THAI FOOD YEAY ! :-))) AND A THAI BOXING SHOP
ITS £6 ENTRY TO "ALL" EXCEPT YOU THE INSTRUCTORS, ITS FREE

OH AND WE NEED TO KNOW
THIS Please ?

1. FULL NAME>? MALE / FEMALE?
2. AGE
3. WEIGHT EXACT ( WEIGH ON 2 DIFFERENT SCALES AND GIVE US THEIR AVERAGE )
IN KILOS IN THIER GYM KIT ( NO SHOES N JEWELLRY ETC: ! )
4. EXPERIENCE? LENGTH TRAINING ? ( IE: INTERCLUBS ? FIGHTS ? OTHER FIGHTS ? KICK-BOXING mma ? ETC: ? )
5. WE USE 3 LEVELS OF MATCHMAKING IE: ARE THEY
A) STRONG, B) AVERAGE?, C) INEXPERIENCED ?


Sandy McTing Tong McMad Man Holt
www.thaiboxing.co.uk

Sandy Holt writes:
ASPULL CIVIC HALL ASPULL, NR: WIGAN LANCS:
Sat:23rd: FEB: ADULT / KIDS Interclub

Bolton-Thai-Boxing-Clubs First event of 2008
A Pre-match No Desc: Interclub
Men, Women, Kids
First half Children, Second Half Adults
All Pre-Matched
Its in a Venue not a cramped gym ( its the Future! :-))! )

@ Aspull Civic hall, half way between Bolton / Wigan
£6 Entry for All
Fully Seated,
Adult Bar,
Food,
Martial-Arts Thai/kickboxing Stall
Car Park,
Changing Rooms,
Toilets,
Changing Rooms etc: etc:
A Equipment / gloves inspector / helper,
One of the Best Interclub Refs: on the Interclub Circuit and M.C. ( RONNIE THOMPSON )
All Fights Fully Padded ( its an interclub, NOT a fight )
all the Above for a measly £6 !!! :-)))
please contact us ( Jussy at my / our gym with your list Please )
L.t.d Places
tel: 01204 395807.

thankyou for your past Support and with this one ! Cheers sandyman

P.S.
2 more things.....
1. if your having any shows?
lets NOT Clash ! Please give me your dates in advance ! for our / my Diary
And if i can support you i / we will ! as you know theres A Hundred shows a year Now and you / we / me have to "pick our Shots" its a good Climate, but one that we have to be carefull with due to OVERPROMOTE!? Dont you think?..... as everyones having-a-go!

Cant Blame them, as long as its well run !?
PLEASE STAY CLEAR FROM OUR 1 AND ONLY DATE WE PUT A SHOW ON
IT WILL PROBABLY BE SUNDAY NOV: 30TH: @ THE USUAL YEARLY VENUE..
THE "MONACO BALLROOM" NEAR WIGAN LANCS
PLEASE BOOK IT DOWN ON YOUR CALENDAR OF EVENTS,
LOL AHEAD ON POINTS OR WHAT? LOL :-P
That said MIGHT do a MID year Show when NOT many do
Mid-Summer ( do we get one ? lol hahaha )
JULY possibly.... Again Please consider us thankyou Kindly ! :-)
2.
If you having any shows on a BIGGER Scale Please ALWAYS consider me to
Help promote YOUR SHOW, by using my BIG Gob lol for COMMENTATING,
as many of you Know? ! Ive done for T.V. / Sky / Video / DVD etc: Thankyou,
as ive Just BOUGHT a Brand New SUIT ! lol ( true )
( hate Suits lol ) and Shirt and would wear them for your show,
if i was to Commentate ! Cheers ! :-)))

its only a giraffe mandy, did 2 shows in corby sure interclub wouldnt take a rocket scientist good luck with it, get your jimmy saville gear on and im sure NMT will be up there like a shot. shawaddy waddy chicken thigh.

"shawaddy waddy..... chicken thigh"

I dont know you spoke Thai Liam! :)












~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

if you dont know the joke, this translates as:
"Sawadee.... mai pen rai"

Sandy send me by text details please x x

hahaha Liam Son of Bruce Forsyth in shorts>?
good man
and Liam
"Thais Done Eat Pies" lol

and Jimmy Saville is legend
did about 20 ? ( more ? ) Charity Marathons, i was in same one once in the Hardest ( in the Uk Voted at the time ) The Bolton marathon
dont see you doing more than 5 miles ? :-p
and Noi666 lol good tahi Poet / match

Ha ha ha Vinster
you nearly as many mobile numbers as a Quarter of Mine! :-p
reply and bring some fighters instead of being a seminar super bar / star lol :-p

i cant believe u didnt get any action in Krungthep in this badboy t-shirt

Just going back to this a bit.A few of these interclubs are advertised as "fights" on here and on flyers/posters....So that answers the original question that was asked? They are fights! Two people in a ring hitting each other padded or not.... = fight?

Sandy,On your interclub topic,Your interclub has 70 "fights" on as you have said,That solves the question.

Phill "chalky" ;-)

THANKYOU
BUT AS IT LEADS
"Interclub"
could it be called Spar?
i dunno maybe we need a new name for it?


Can i ask you?
was your interclubs Fights?? you had with us / me etc: or was they "Spars"
I Dont have the Answer? do you?
please re Read the poster where it says-

"NO Descission"


This might help !

Fights, like i said above.... just No descision.
people are called "fighters" on these things too,So they are fights or are they "sparrers"?
I don't have the answer either,but they in my opinion fights just padded up,like i did for you/me

Actually, at my interclubs, I take great care to not use fights or fighters. We have bouts and participants. Not much difference, but I make it quite clear, they are not fights!

Well thats it Darren,You use those terms(No confusion)Correct terminoligy.,Others don't so they are then "advertised" as fights and "fighters".But saying that it would sell more to the paying public to call them fights?

I don't know what they are? They are fights to some people and other people they are not.

Maybe a route to go down would be like Neil Holdens,Were you are padded up like a interclub but have scoring and a winner that would then be a "padded up" fight? A interclub is just a harder sparring session? I don't know....

And who am i to say,I just train in it anyway.Thanks.

the way forward is never what neil Holden does

To be fair Neil has done a great job in developing his own circuit for his AKA/IKF amateur Kickboxing events with his new set of rules and I am impressed with the achievements he has had with it in such a short time but its not Muay Thai by any stretch of the imagination.


What he is doing with that is very different to what we are talking about here and I want to be careful in my wording of the following so that people don't compare the two things or think they are similar.

We are talking about Junior Muay Thai not kickboxing for points and as far as I am aware we are trying to create a circuit that encourages the youngsters to develop a style that will eventually enable them to win under Muay Thai rules.

What we call the actual "bouts, contests or fights" is less relevant than the emphasis we put on what is good and relevant technique during them.

The sooner we develop a circuit that sees juniors progressing from non decisions into decisions as fast as possible the better.

Kids learn real fast and if you tell a youngster exactly how to win something then that junior will develop a technique and style to do just that! If they are allowed to punch kick and knee each other bout after bout with no decision then they will never learn how to win!

....Give a kid a video game that has set rules and they will eventually work out how to win on their own!

Just to add to this Neil and the events that are being run are now including Muay Thai Rules. Shin guard, head guard and elbow pads no body armour full Thai rules. Elbows and knees to the head 5 x 2 min rounds with decision not clicker system as per the other bouts.
So you might want to re visit these events with a different opinion Darren.

My seniors (amateurs) fought MT rules on the show last night under full Thai Rules but with a degree of safety and protection. Leif fought Hakan from Turkey under the OSR rules. Hakan won GOLD at the IFMA championships in Thailand 07. Leif won on points which has to be a good thing for the UK and these shows.

I appologise for the bluntness of my statement late last night, too much Snappy Gum

:)

Bless you Dazza, not like you too be like that?
( i taught you well hahahaha LOL )
thats my main prob.....
i speak too quick and think later lol doh ! sorry !



and good points above guys thanks !

p.s. meant to say...
they could then be called


"No Decission Fight"!

:-p

the fool chatters while the wise man listens, old shaolin proverb. lol :-)

dazzathethai


2008-02-23 18:21:00 ( time)


dazzathethai writes:

the way forward is never what neil Holden does

Just to let everyone know, I'd had a few drinks when I posted that and shouldn't off, sorry again

Neil Holden writes:

dazzathethai


2008-02-23 18:21:00 ( time)


dazzathethai writes:

the way forward is never what neil Holden does
-----------------------------------------------



why the repost? said in jest cant it be removed?

Hummmmmmmmmmmm
remember this ?
ahead on points ?

Sawatdee Khrup!

Same wave length on this one Kru Sandy (just slightly different hairstyles!) I have just put a comment on the topic on the recent Ch4 show.

Heavy contact at interclubs?
No medics/doctor at interclubs?

Next News of the world/Ch4 headlines?

Lets' take more responsibility eh?



SHAUN

If the techniques shit stop the fight throw them out the ring and tell them to come back in a few months time!

Or Shouldnt be there in the First place coz the Instructor Under qualified or Learned from YOU TUBE?????