Functional Muay Thai movements for MMA

My history is almost only MuayThai. I have done a bit of training here and there and played around with ground guys (BJJ and wrestling etc)

Most of the guys I work with right now are MMA.


My question is what are your opinions (especially from those with some serious MuayThai knowledge AND MMA knowledge) about what specifics, keeping as simple as possible, work or don't work well in MMA?

Say body kicks - bigger risk of catching and taking down etc...

Maybe MuayThai punching rather than boxing (keeping a center of balance and there for more able to defend a take down or kick after a punch or two than like Tyson winding up of the next punch (as great as that is for boxing and often kickboxing)...

Thoughts?
Thanks

I find that , Punches, Knees&Clinch, Leg kicks tend to work best in MMA than say teeps and body kicks.

The Muay thai techniques used within MMA are subtley differnt, weight, body position distances are changed.
if you've got your oppenant rocked then maybe sitting down into your punches in a boxing stance for greater power (no 8count in MMA) but if the guy has a big wrestling background he's likely to shoot asap.
In clinch, knees need to be sharp, as can be caught and used for the take down however, when they connect they're obviously very effective (or can be), The Spider v R Franklin springs to mind.

I agree with Farhad, front kicks a bit of a no-no, body & head kicks are 'high risk' moves

:-)
And I've not really answered your question!

just look up malaipet's thai boxing fights to learn how good hai boxing in an MA fight can be. He uses a very obvious style and yet his weakenss doesn't lie in the fact that he doesn't modify his muay thai much, but in that he has NO idea how to fight on the ground lol.

I know a stand and move differently when there is a possibility of a take down is there but I don't really exactly what. If i sat and thought I may have some guesses and some ideas but I've never paid attention in terms of consciously understanding or putting it to language. I guess filming myself would be good (see whats working or not and what looks like possible probs or not etc) and like recommended above, watch fighters doing it.

- I think watching can be huge for learning...

hmmm maybe we'll spar hands with take downs today (all the guys I teach are MMA)

It has always seemed to me that the type of striking that works well in MMA (in most situations) is the more explosive striking. Where in Muay Thai/KB, you can have more accumulative attacks.

This is why I think some Kickboxers can make the jump to MMA and some have trouble with it. CroCop's style was always explosive, and he seriously trained his takedown defense, so he was able to compete well in MMA. I think Anderson Silva and Machida's styles works well in MMA. Both fighters are highly accurate and are great with timing. Fedor is always explosive with his strikes.

This isn't to say accumulative striking can't work in MMA. Kenny Florian tends to do this. BJ Penn used it very well against Diego Sanchez. I think it's the fighters with very confident takedown defense that can do it. I'm guessing we'll start to see more of this in the future and the sport evolves.

Shogun used pretty much standard thai boxing against Machida in the first fight. Those leg kicks were wearing Machida down.

And irregardless of the judges decision we all know who actually won that fight.

Agreed

I think just keeping distance and range is the biggest difference between KB and mma.

Just watching some fighters who are very good at keeping the fight standing and using their stand up skills effectively - it's like there is a solid object of specific length between them and their opponent.
Whenever their opponent moves forward, they move back, or pivot to the side, using angles, that exact distance - never more or never letting their opponent close that distance.

Looking at their stance - it's like their rear leg is spring loaded, so they can change that distance very quickly, as oppose to the more flat footed style in regular stand up, when there is no danger of a take down.

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Our KB-ing coach who trains some of the top mma fighters in NZ drilled this tirelessly - staying spring loaded on the back leg - always keeping that perfect distance, and using angles.

Alot of the mma fighters in the gym often give problems to the regular kickboxers - even though their kicking/punching ability is not on the same level, due to the fact that their use of range is superior.
They stay out of range - they don't get hit.
They close the distance when they wish to strike etc.
Just a better ability to do this - sucks for regular kick boxers :)

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22825103/vp/24055920#24055920

I think this fight is one of the best example of a fighters ability to maintain that range through out - although he also has good tdd also.

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Also I'd agree with the explosiveness - perfect whip motion in their strikes - stops them from over-committing to the strikes maybe - without loosing power..

The top mma fighters who aim to keep it standing are all explosive and very accurate.
There's lots of guys on youtube that demonstrate this.

But also a few examples of stand up guys who transition to mma and cannot make use of their skills effectively due to this lack of explosion - Peter Graham from the recent IMPACT FC promotion on OZ springs to mind - as brutal as he can be in regular stand up, his strikes just did not seem to have much effect in the mma ring.

I believe also it's largely the reason why dutch KB fighters transition so well to mma - as they train conditioning and explosiveness very well - as well as very good footwork and timing, possibly due to their points system working more in favor of punches?? - like western boxing.

PS I agree - huge learning can be done from watching - Mike Tyson used to watch everybody.

I think knees, especially in the clinch, and elbows (used in close and on the ground) are the main MT weapons that come to the fore.

Leg kicks don`t really do that much in MMA as the kicker is usually too wary of the possible takedown to really go for it, and body kicks/teeps just leave an opening for the takedown.

It can depend on the person throwing the shots though, as if it somebody more grounded in wrestling, such as Matt Hamill, then he would telegraph the techniques more, which can be dangerous for him.

Someone like Jon Jones is far more fluid and can cause more problems when using the MT techniques as his speed can catch the more 'lumbering' types out.

If you saw the Hamill v Jones fight you will see what I mean (even though Hamill won on a DQ after having his face literally pulverised!).

- knees , lower knees when the opponent tries to jump front to take the legs for a takedown...

- pushing technics with maximum impuls (not conntinious pushing !) pushing like a blow ..., every type one two hands and following with "punching combos" ...pushing is a form not so well known in wrestling (except sumo)

-low kicks ,followed by punch combos...however, never direct kicking, with punch fake first...

-directs, hooks of punches 45 degree down to the floor ..this workd in cases when the opponent tries to make takedown...

-teeps , push front kicks ...however, you hav to know correct the methods how to save the kick when the opponent cathes it...

-knees to the head...knees to the body has not so hard effect since the fighters in general are well conditioned in this frame...
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the knees with clinch may be dangerous since the opponent may take you down with suphlekes ,hip throw or sweeps...

I sparred hands and take downs the other day. Third time ever. We're about the same weight, I have experience (and the psychological edge of being the trainer. He has years of wrestling, current MMA fighter. Of course just hands isn't the whole picture and we have gloves on (small though they were) that makes it harder to use hands.

I certainly worked it a little different, range mostly being the big thing. I stayed up, sprawled and neutralized or got back up everytime except once he had an advantage position. He was pushing down on my neck and I have some neck issues that had been re triggered recently so I just stopped.. (not that I really knew what to do).

I suspect that MMA gloves would have made it way easier for him. Of course not doing it much I was less aware of what I was doing in terms of conscious learning. Its certainly a whole new dimension. It did go down lots (mostly got back up by myself) but we weren't continuing on the ground long either.

I think a fighter would be stupid to plan not to go down and a stand up fighter MUST adjust!!!

Kicks are harder to work with cause you have to pull them so much as to make it easy to shoot or your playing with too much risk of serious damage (for training I think).

Next time I'd like to try it with just leg kicks. The advantage (pulling power and knowing only legs) would go to take downs - which is good cause if you can get them off that way and still stay up or ale to sprawl etc with pulled power while shooter is going full out pretty much then you might get a good gage of what can work.

Push kicks (front etc) I think could be done with timing!!!!! and done right but I would think that you wouldn't want to use often at all... one thing that really helps stopping getting your leg caught in push kicks is coming up and out with kicking leg. When you pull straight back the hand hooks on the curve of achillies/heal. Hit and right away straight back (with lift) before it is getting caught - preemptive.

I'd like to try push/front with MMA gloves though - but its worked well bare hand too... course MMA guys might try to grab in some different ways...

Elbows - MMA - my opinion way under used... its a slower area to develop and will sweep and spread fast in MMA if it starts getting used more and better I think.

Mark, got to disagree mate, elbows are a staple G n P technique. Ortiz finished many a fight with them, and it is a common close in technique as well.

I would agree the technique, and application of the technique, could be improved overall though, although most certainly try and put them into the mix in every fight.

I think they can improve a lot.

punch ...punches ...very effective ,with accurate timing...

another thing is that "never go to the opponent if he is down on the floor..."

just kick low quickly and wait...

it works ...

then of course you have to factor in whats your opponents major skill set and use whatever techniques you have that will take best advantage of their, often presumed,weakness.

I have seen some very good take downs coming san shou...

Since its a sport that is stand up with take downs I would imagine it be worth looking at from MMA in regards to taking down a stand up fighter - its been a while I ddon't watch loads of MMA but it seems to me there were quite a few things they often did that i haven't seen much in MMA..

I could be wrong - anyone?