PAY BACK TIME 2 :: JWP Vs YOD :: Oct 17th, 2010.

John Wayne Parr
VS
Yodsanklai

Oct 17th 2010
Moonee Valley Racecourse


We witnessed John Wayne Parr avenge his defeat against Mike Zambidis in Pay Back Time 1, now he is out to get the world’s highest ranked Muaythai fighter, Yodsanklai!

Most of us know these champions from The Contender Asia series, where they both made it to the final with JWP to lose. This is the most anticipated rematch in Australia for Muaythai and its going to be to be a war!

Show your support for Australia’s John Wayne Parr in what is set to be his toughest battle in the ring and forward this onto your friends!

Tickets start at $65 at Powerplay Gym on 03 9386 7797 or phone our ticketing consultant on 0406 165 218. Credit Cards welcome for all pre purchased tickets.

Check out the promo on the following link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lJ_cGHVGNw

Or visit www.powerplaygym.com for further info.

FOR ALL ENQUIRIES CONATCT
Demi Eglezos
POWERPLAY PROMOTIONS
Email :: demi.ppg@bigpond.com
Web :: powerplaygym.com

World Muaythai Magazine proudly announces WMM as an official MEDIA SPONSOR for POWERPLAY PROMOTIONS and PAY BACK TIME 2.

Id say Saiyok is better than Yod but still cant see past a Yod victory, providing judging is muaythai

depends, yod of 3 years ago was deadly, saiyok is very good, maybe an alround better fighter but yod can/could bang with legs and hands and ko at any moment.

Saiyok is a 65kg fighter, not a 72kg one. Yeah he fought 70kg against Antuan but that'd be his walk around weight.

P4P I'd put him over Yod though, but there is a distinct difference in style so it's hard to compare.

Sure would love to see Saiyok on Aussie shores though. No complaints there :)

Gunna be a great show, can't wait!

You know JWP is going to give it his all. Ringside at his last fight in Singapore with YOD was a charged fight. Heavy hitting fists continuously landing on YOD from JWP, as he ducked head kicks from YOD... who's is a machine and will be in good form after SportAccord Combat Games coming up.

Aaron Goodson will be doing a small photo shoot today at the Sky Deck -Eureka Tower in the lead up to his WKA Australia Title.

Aaron Goodson’s opponent has now been confirmed and matched with Jake Mitchell.

"Bob Jones pioneered kick boxing and Muaythai in Australia and is extremely happy for Aaron’s fight to be sanctioned by WKA seeing as he is the son of the legendary Dana Goodson."

Aaron has been training under the guidance of Joe Nader owner of Powerplay Gym and Promotions (and student of Dana Goodson).

Worldwide and Muaythai fight sports fans are talking up the anticipated “Fight of the Year” between World Champion JOHN WAYNE PARR matched for the third time with the world’s highest ranked “NO. 1” Muaythai fighter and native to Thailand,
YODSANKLAI.

Don’t miss being there to see what is likely to be one of the best fights in 2010! The fight of the Year is on at PAY BACK TIME 2.

Worldwide and Muaythai fight sports fans are talking up the anticipated “Fight of the Year” between World Champion JOHN WAYNE PARR matched for the third time with the world’s highest ranked “NO. 1” Muaythai fighter and native to Thailand, YODSANKLAI.

Don’t miss being there to see what is likely to be one of the best fights in 2010! The fight of the Year is on at PAY BACK TIME 2.

It was Australia in 2005, these two first did battle and where as fellow ringsport fighters gained tremendous respect towards each other as formidable opponents.

Again these two top 72kg Division A-Class fighters, fought their way through 14 of the world’s best Muaythai Warriors, ultimately coming to blows at the Final for Contender Asia in Singapore, 2008.

Both previous fight decisions have gone YOD’s way by unanimous decision, and now the favourable Moonee Valley Racecourse will see JWP avenge his good track form again on home soil and prepare for PAY BACK TIME 2!

The fight card has been matched by highly respected sports fight professional Mr. Joe Nader, well known amongst the Muaythai and Kickboxing combat sports scene. Eight top class fights for State, National and World Title are up for the challenge and sanctioned by World Kickboxing Association.

In addition to the “Fight of the Year” this world class event we have an amazing local under card including the stand out fighter by the name of Aaron Goodson.

Aaron Goodson is the son of the late Master Dana Goodson who pioneered Kickboxing and Muaythai from Fitzroy All Stars Gym.

Aaron Goodson at the ripe age of 22, Dana’s youngest son, is now at the level in his fighting career to be given the opportunity to compete for the Australian Title in his weight division.

AARON GOODSON is matched against JAKE MITCHELL and this is set to be his toughest match yet and date is sentimental as it is around his father’s anniversary.

The undercard will see DANIEL SMYRK Vs JARED GRIGOR • SAM EDNEY Vs KEVIN MAGNEEZ • RAHULLA PAYKARI Vs CHRIS HORNE • MASEH NURISTANI Vs E.DIAMONDSTEIN • TYSON FOLINO Vs DANIEL PICCOLOTTO and soon to b matched will be JARROD BOYLE.

Show your support for Australia’s John Wayne Parr in what is set to be his toughest battle in the ring and forward this onto your friends!

Follow the forums on the fight at;
www.K-1fans.com
http://www.k-1fans.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50773

www.akkickboxing.com
http://message.axkickboxing.com/index.phtml?action=dispthread&topic=31342&topicgroup=axmain&junk=8931

Tickets start at $65 at Powerplay Gym on 03 9386 7797 or phone our ticketing consultant on 0406 165 218. Credit Cards welcome for all pre purchased tickets.

CHECK OUT THE PROMO ON THE FOLLOWING LINK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lJ_cGHVGNw

OR VISIT
http://www.powerplaygym.com/promotions

ALL MEDIA ENQUIRIES ::
Demi Eglezos
BDM
Mobile: 0406165218
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Email: demi.ppg@bigpond.com
www.powerplaygym.com

What an action packed night it will be with every fight being a Title fight! The main event being the most talked about rematch that Australia wanted to see and Powerplay has delivered this.
Wayne has been wanting this rematch to avenge his 2 defeats against Yodsanklai and his chance is coming soon on PAY BACK TIME 2 don't miss this fight becaus it will never happen again.

Not to start any beef considering myhistory with JWP I have to ask...why? Do you guys really think JWP has a shot against Yod? I mean it's been 2 or 3 years since the last fight and Yod at 24 or 25 is only getting better (scary). JWP on the other hand, well he aint getting any younger and isn't the same fighter. I'm just saying....much respect for JWP for taking the fight but I don't see why.

El Capitan
love, peace and aceite de coco grease

your wrong, yod peaked 3-4 years ago, i think jwp really has a good chance in this one.

Fair enough Paul. I'll be on pins and needles waiting for the results but I don't think Yod has peaked. Maybe he's gotten a little lax, but I'm sure that he'll be game. Either way, I'll be sure to catch this one.

I'd hardly say Yod has peaked. People have just started clueing on to his fighting style and he's got a bit more lazy and complacent.

From what I've heard he's training with full intensity for this fight in acknowledgement of the opponent.

JWP's had a great 12 months leading up to this of knotching up good wins. He's also just finished a 13 Coins training stint in build up for this. He'll be as ready as he's ever been and I think he definitely has a chance to pull this off. I would say this is his last chance though.

Will be very close to call. Head says Yod but heart wants Parr to knotch up this win before he calls it quits for good. Aussie judging will score the first two rounds 10-9 which Parr will likely steal, so it'll be a close one on the cards provided he doesn't get dropped by those legs or hands of Yod.

Well said Tom, I agree with you man!

Why is it that Thai fighters get lazy and complacent after 2 to 3 years fighting outside of Thailand?

Buakaw is nowhere near the fighter he used to be looks like in 3 years Yod will be the same..wtf!

El Capitan
Love, peace and aceite de coco grease!

hmmm if it goes to points and jwp wins people will say its cos its on home turf
if yod ko's him people will say jwp is too old
if jwp ko's him people will say its cos yod is past his peak

i think promoters should ve got Buakaw and Yod on about 2007 ish
oh well

hope its a corker

good luck to JWP and depends whose the Hungriest imo

met them Both and esp: JWParr
he epitomises the Art and Sport of Muay thai

chok-dee gents

Bring on Sunday is all I can say.... REALLY pumped about calling this fight, I'll try and post results of all fights here live....

http://www.kickboxermag.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=296537#post296537

WAR JWP & Jared "The Shock" Grigor

JWP wins by SPD

Awesome main event, could have gone either way, and as Wayne said in his post fight interview, he thought if it was in Thailand Yod would have got the nod, not that there was bias, more just a tendancy to score differently in western countries.

But we have 1 VERY PUMPED JWP.... congrats mate, was honoured to call it yet again...

So what he means was that if it was scored like thai boxing he wouldnt have won. nuff said.

Always tough to call these fights, it was a really really close fight, JWP had a game plan that didn't allow Yod to drop him as he did previously, and it worked.

Never seen JWP so focused before or in a fight, he was pumped, yet relaxed (if that makes sense), he wanted it, went for it and got it....

pardon my ? but who won?

See above Sandy.... :-)

JWP

I'm with Nephilim on this one but whatever, congrats to JWP I guess.

I'm gonna have to catch this fight though and see for myself what went down.

El Capitan
Love, peace and aceite de coco grease!

Well done JWP.

Anywhere we can watch the fight?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Clth4NfRpCE

You can watch the other rounds on there too!

So...

Round 1: 10:10. Not because I'm not scoring it but because the effective shots etc. didn't reveal a clear winner to the round. JWP throwing a lot of innefective punches.

Round 2: 10:10 with a dot in JWP's favor but that's by scoring it VERY liberally. Again, more largely inneffective boxing.

Round 3: 9:10 - this time very definately in Yod's favor. Again with the boxing from JWP. Throwing more kicks this round though.

Round 4: 9:10 again in Yod's favor only more so this time. Big kicks and punches from the thai all round. Not much return from JWP who's looking very tired.

Round 5: 10:10 Yod knows he's won an takes it easy for the rest of the fight. JWP knows he's lost and spends the whole round chasing Yod trying to land big haymakers on him and failing. Gassing badly.

Seriously biased decision in my opinion. The only person taking heavy shots in this fight was JWP. Under every single criteria of judging Yod was the winner. He showed better composure, he showed better technique, he was more in control, he finished stronger, he landed more clean shots and he landed them with a hell of a lot more power.

The result really does seem to be causing a bit of a stir.

yod won easy,bad judging,jwp cant make the decision so fair play to him.

what a surprise Yod robbed on JWP's home soil... I like JWP but he hasnt changed a single thing in any fight against him....

definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result...oh unless you have idiots who see a person throw 10 punch combos swayed by the muay thai ignorant crowd thinking its effective and judges with no buisness scoring a thaiboxing card... did you see the after pics??? Yod looks like he is ready for a modeling career and JWP lookes like he went threw a threshing machine!!!

what a faking joke!

I like JWP but he doesn't have an answer for Yod for anything not one single weapon is better the only thing that comes close is his heart!

Get over the decision and give JWP some much deserved praise.

Every Thai KNOWS what the scoring system is going to be over to Aussie (i.e. 10-9 first two rounds, far more punch friendly, favours quantity over quality).

The inverse also applies. You don't see Aussies crying about the decision when they go to Thailand, fight their Western gameplan, and lose on points. You adapt to the rule structure and get on with it, that's called professionalism.

Adapt to the rules? Surely the rules should be the same? It's either Muay thai or it's not!

I think JWP actually said if it was in Thailand Yod would have won.

You dont see people go to thailand and complain about the scoring cos its THE THAIS GODDAMN SPORT.

And the point is irrelevant since 1) the thais DO score 10:9 the first two rounds - if its needed. 2) there was no need to score 10:9 in the first 2 rounds since JWP didnt win them and 3) even if they are punch friendly it doesn't matter since they didnt even land anyway.

I'm sorry. The aussies and the rest of the westernised world know the thai rules. Not being able to compete with the thais under their own rules isnt a good enough excuse to change the rules and/or scoring criteria and then claim its the same thing.

Just saw the fight and to judge it for JWP is a clear and disturbing example of what Home Cooking is all about.

I knew JWP didn't have the goods to take on Yod, but at least I figured the old man would give the kid a run for his money. This is a straight up travesty ranked right up there with election fraud!

Nephilim, you are 100% right my friend. The whole excuse of "western judging" as opposed to "Thai judging" is as hollow as it is pathetic; an empty baseless excuse that is being sold to us as the real McCoy.

Kudos to JWP for making that statement at the end of the fight “had the fight been in Thailand, Yod would’ve won” but alleviating your guilty conscience doesn’t make the crime any less egregious.

JWP should come out and say that there needs to be a 4th fight because winning like this will and should haunt him the rest of his career. The stench of this hollow win should keep you up at night JWP, and you’d be the better man if you came out and said “Yod was robbed and to leave no doubt of what kind of fighter I am, we should fight again as soon as possible!” Or simply say, “I denounce this ‘win’ and I don’t want it on my record.”

Wishful thinking I know, but for a guy who is so honorable and such a “stand-up guy” I expect JWP to prove to us all that he’s made of the kind of stuff true champions are made of.

El Capitan
Love, peace and aceite de coco grease!

I agree with Tom....

Don't take ANYTHING away from JWP, he doesn't make the rules, he just fights the best out there, never taking an easy fight. He asked to fight Yod cos he was the best and he got the opportunity.

Was great to witness two of the worlds best at it....

Congrats to JWP all round...

well done Jwp and ive not watched it yet, but will and sorry was their 3rd fight?
i missed the 2nd ?
sorry

YEah Sandy, this is the 3rd fight. Yod won the first one in Oz and the 2nd fight in "The Contender Asia." I believe both wins were via UD, this is the 3rd fight which JWP won by SD or some thing like it.

How ya been ya mad man?

El Capitan
Love, peace and aceite de coco grease!

I'm not taking anything away from JWP himself. The man got in there with the best and he gave it everything. That deserves respect and I know that he had nothing to do with the decision. It's also slightly mollifying to hear him say that if the fight were in thailand Yod would've won.

It's just simply true however that he never at any point had Yod in trouble or under pressure. It's also true that Yod outscored him in every possible thai scoring criteria. And what worries me about JWP is not what he did say, but what he didn't say; ie, "yod got robbed".

You just need to watch the 4th and 5th round to see that both fighters knew who had won that fight. yod came out and ran around avoiding JWP for the final round and didn't let ihm score because he knew he'd won. JWP came out all guns blazing and lookingfor a knockout because he knew that on points he'd lost. To then after the fight act as if you think you deserved it is slightly dishonest and lacks conviction.

""cos its THE THAIS GODDAMN SPORT""

Since when does a sport belong to anyone? is Football Englands sport, is Golf Scotlands sport!!

No it's fucking not, you can't own a sport; it belongs to everyone who participates.

I watched the fight and also agree Yod won.

JWP is a gentleman and a real good fighter plus I wanted him to beat Yod,but its clear Yod won the fight under the rules of the sport it was contested in Muay Thai:)

No andyc if you're gonna score it differently in australia then call it muay aussie. the name proclaims it the thais sport and by using that name you're saying its the thais sport too.

Yod should fight Liam H then he really would get beat!

rickster just won most ridiculous comment of the year award!

Yod has been robbed on points before. he is the unluckiest thai boxer going. Never got a start in K1 max cos he wouldve smashed so many of them up and then you would have 2 thais, not using a japanese martial art, dominating a tournament run by the japs. Everyone in muay thai knows who he is and how outrageously hard he kicks, but i bet people like Sapp and Bregy and Kimbo have made more money out of fighting.

That fight looks like it was held in a working mans club.
Yod is too big to fight many of the thais, I dont think he has fought a Thai since late 2008?

Dan G how about bringing Yod over to fight, he should fight Wakeling at some point?

Nephilim does it again! You said everything I was thinking (just in a much nicer way considering my rep here on AX).

That being said, the whole argument of the sport belonging to anyone is somewhat arbitrary. MT has been gaining in popularity over the years, but overall it is still generally considered a Thai sport. Hence most people saying Thai rules or Thai boxing. I believe that if MT is to grow and cleanse itself of arguments like this one, there has to be a unified rules of MT much like the unified rules of Boxing. Then you can also have your "alphabet soup” sanctioning body rules of MT i.e. WBC, WKA, ISKA etc. Taking all that into consideration, if the fight is an interclub thing, then the WMTC rules should be gospel. As a westerner and an avid student and fan of boxing, I of course would be biased in favor or a puncher; however, once rules are clearly etched in stone and made finite, that punching bias has to go away.

Back on topic…

I the end I think we can all agree that Mr. Gacy JWP lost the fight and should definitely fight Yod again in order to put to rest all the nay sayers and determine once and for all who the better man is. I think that if JWP fights Yod and gives it all he’s got, win lose or draw he will prove that he does not take hand outs and that every win on his record is earned and beyond contestation.

At the risk of being made fun of like Rickster, I actually would like to see the UK’s finest i.e. Liam Harrison go up against JWP or preferably Yod. What’s wrong with that? Hell Jordan Watson fought Buakaw, why can’t Liam take on Yod, JWP and or Buakaw too? What’s the weight difference? I admit I’m ignorant in regards to that.

El Capitan
Love, peace and aceite de coco grease!

Think Liams around the 63-65Kg, and Yod from 70Kg upwards. I'll probably be corrected.

Damn, too bad. I'd love to see Liam bang against Yod.

Think Jordan Watson can take on JWP?

Is that a good match up?

El Capitan
Love, peace and aceite de coco grease!

I reckon jordan would have his way with JWP. would be good to watch. Last I heard, yod's walkin around at crazy weights.

I agree Neph, even JWP himself has said "Its a young mans game" and I would think Jordans a very hungry young man at the moment.

Do you think JWP, would take that fight?

When will we see Jordan in K-1? If he down the old lion (JWP) would that be a rite of passage that he's ready for the big show?

El Capitan
Love, peace and aceite de coco grease!

thsnkd Ernesto and Im mmad as ever.com and
growing old is mandatory.... Growing Up "isnt" :-)

how the hell are you and what ya up to these days? and you in training ?

Ernesto there is already a set of rules for Muay Thai,its just that a lot of the rest of the world dont follow them bro!;0

I know that, but obvioulsy everyone doesn't follow them, so in order to please most of the people most of the time maybe we need some unified sanctioning rules don't you think?

El Capitan
Love, peace and aceite de coco grease!

I really do like JWP and someone was right when stating he has nothing to do with the decision... he is a great guy for the sport of muay thai and an all around stand up guy.

JWP fighting Yod again would be the same result as this... Yod winning... why should Yod have to fight him again what does he have to prove... he walks away unscaved in every contest like how many times does poor JWP have to fight the younger stronger guy... JWP can have the win I am sure Yod could care less... he does it for the cash like all the others...how many times we see Baukaw get robbed in K1....thai scoring or not...sometimes bum decisons get made but deep down I am sure after JWP watches the tape he will know... every true thaiboxing fan see's the difference...

I also still cannot believe the arrogance of some saying it isn't Thailands sport...yes the world participates and has every right too... but Thai people have right to this sport a fight sport proven superior to any other striking art on the planet... comparing football and golf is apples to oranges... unless we start allowing footballers to use their hands also and golfers can throw there ball out of the sandtrap... how would you like your national sport altered.

Both scoring systems still use all 8 weapons. Don't be so dramatic/fanatical by implying that it's radically changed such as footballers using their hands.

I agree that the fight probably shouldn't be advertised as 'Full Thai Rules' if it isn't scored in the same manner as it would be in Thailand. Perhaps some other name (i.e. Western Rules) or something should be stated up front so that the different scoring system is acknowledged.

JWP vs Jordan would be a great fight. Yes, Jordan fought Buakaw recently and did well, and congrats to him for that, but his resume isn't anywhere near as impressive as JWPs. JWP cuts hard to make 72.5kg, so he's a big boy at that weight. Pro Boxing record attests to his hand quality and we all know his Thailand trained lineage. UK to Aus airfares though will hurt the pocket of any Aussie or UK promoter :(, so I don't know if we'll ever see this happen.

JWP said after the fight that 'Yod probably would have won if the fight took place in Thailand.' Surely that will suffice for an acknowledgement of the decision, as well as being a testament to how much of a humble gentleman JWP is.

Considering in the first two fights JWP got dropped and convincingly lost, I don't think you can say he went into this fight with the exact same gameplan, given the result.

some good points coming out of this and The Bit ref: Who Owns it? well i dont think Nephlin was too wrong in saying it Andy ! as they Invented it and its the capital of the world where its the ONLY country in the World has it as a national sport and Art so i guess the Do pretty much Own the jist of it lol They started it and usually finish it too lol
i dont think nephlin meant as what they say goes for Everything??? coz there is so many rule changes every 10 miles ( at one time even over here) lol No where near as bad now, in fact getting better and better by the day :-)))
just gotta teach a few more old dogs new tricks

( it took me a few years, im a Young Old dog lol ) but thing is and to add to the great saying

"you cant teach an old dog new tricks"

But you `can` if the Old Dog is willing to learn some newer ones :)

So ThaiGuy, you really think Yod wouldn't care/bother fighting JWP again even if it's to set the record straight?

Granted Yod has won twice (quite convincingly), and this most recent fight being a highly questionable win for JWP at best, do you think that JWP wouldn't try and push to make this fight happen? I would imagine that all the negativity surrounding the recent fight should be eating at JWP and make him hunger for some legitimate "pay back time" (as the title suggests).

Is this proverbial 'grudge match' so uneven/uninteresting that its not even worth pushing for even as a fan?

Im curious to know what you think or anyone else for that matter.

PS

I agree with you about the whole Thai ownership thing but not completely since the Thai Government and King have pushed so hard to export MT to the world (especially the olympics). I think that slowly it is become the world's sport with Thailand being the eternal and ancestral home of the sport.

El Capitan
Love, peace and aceite de coco grease!

I think you would find Thai boxing is the national sport of more countries than just Thai sandy. Think some of the crazy Russian countires class muay Thai as there most commonly practised national sport also.

Great last point there Ernesto. In fact, some good points throughout this thread. I thought I was a 'MT ownership should be fully controlled by the Thais' type person, but I'm not too sure now ???

I think most sports have had to move with the times, especially when the big gun promoters/advertisers are involved. Cricket for example gets more viewers with its 20/20 tests as opposed to the 3-day test matches, as its more fast paced and interesting (apparently) to watch. Football also has undergone changes over the years to try and keep time-wasting to a minimum, etc etc.

I think drawing comparisons to other sports is a double-sided coin, do we want to keep the tradition, the scoring system, the whole nine yards ?? Or, in order to become mainstream do we want, or need, it to become more viewer friendly ?? Methinks this is going slightly OT, but then again most debates do.

Regarding JWP and Yod, as has been said before, if the moneys there I would guess Yod would fight JWP all day. Only JWP can really answer the question 'should he fight him again' ?? I've never met the guy but he seems right down the line from the interviews, TV footage that i have seen. He'll know only too well deep inside whether his win was convincing or not.

Thai guy, it's not arrogance; it's the nature of ‘Sport’. No one country 'OWNS' a sport. It may have originated there and that may be the place that dictates the rules, has the best fighter, gyms, etc. But you can't physically own a fecking sport.

Answer me this, who owns the following sports:

Football
Tennis
Golf
Rugby

By your narrow minded way of thinking they are all owned by the countries who ‘invented’ them; what a crock of shit. That colloquial way of thinking, IMO is the reason MT will never reach the dizzy heights that MMA has. It’s not embracing; I’d go as far to say it can be an elitist sport outside of Thailand with no small amount of snobbery and disdain aimed at those who don’t agree with the MT Mafia (used to be referred to as MT Nazi’s until the PC Police took care of that).

I love MT, love the Thai style and 'understand' how it’s scored. Been training, (not anymore), going to shows and watching the sport since I was 16, I’m nearly 40 now. So I would argue that voicing my opinion is not 'arrogance' it's just an opinion contrary to your narrow world view.

One World One Muay Thai; sure I’ve heard that lovely little sound-bite banded around before; you’re view obviously finds that opinion abhorrent.

Great post Knobsy!!

Sandy the point I’m trying to make is that if Thailand changed the rules so that you could bring naked dancing ladies in the ring in rounds 3 and 5 so as to form a tag team, zealots like Nephilim and thaiguy would unquestionably accept it, as it's the 'Thai’s sport' and they can do what they want.

I stand by my point that a sport can not belong to one country; it goes against the very ethos of sport in my opinion. I think it's a nationalistic viewpoint.

'Thai scoring' seems to the main point of contention; now I understand it, went on a few courses and read up loads about it; never really for the purpose of being a judge, but so I could enhance my enjoyment of the sport. I still stand by the fact that the general public don't understand the nuances of MT and will never (unless they're involved in the sport) be bothered to do so. This creates a level of confusion when your average punter watches fights! People don't like being confused, not understanding something and as such they will lose interest.

Now MT IMO is the most exciting combat sport/art in the world when done well. I've been to scores of boxing shows and a handful of MMA shows and none of them IMO can match a great MT fight/show. So why in gods name is it still a minority sport? Because people don't understand it and are put off my 27 minute Ram Muay's by C-Class fighters and (in their opinion) an archaic scoring system. Cricket, Football, Rugby and ALL the worlds most popular sports will make subtle and sometimes not so subtle changes to ensure the sport is more exciting, appealing and easier to follow for your average Joe; this is the secret to the mass market popularity of these sports. Why are people in the MT community so loathe to do so? Is it because they are happy for the sport to stay a minority sport or is it down to sheer bloody mindedness? I genuinely don’t know the answer and don’t profess to. Or am I missing the point completely?

AndyC, your point about how Thailand doesn't own a sport and "who owns rugby, football" etc would be a good point if it weren't for the fact that ALL of those sports, without exception, have a unified ruleset and scoring criteria. Since Thai Boxing doesn't and isn't at that stage of development yet, I think we can quite safely say that THAI boxing IS thailand's sport. The best practitioners are there, the best officials, its more popular there, it was developed there and they've been practicing it there for hundreds of years.

The closest thing (and apporpriate actually) would be saying to an Aussie Rules football team to come to scotland and play my "Aussie rules" football team for a match then declaring my team the winner because we use DIFFERENT aussie rules. Its a ludicrous concept.

they might not own it per se, but the traditions and origins are plainly there.
People go to Thailand to play golf , sure, but they can go to any country on the planet to play golf. Everyone wants to play at St Andrews, which is the home of golf.

everyone who is into thai boxing wants to go and learn it in thailand.
you cant have the same experience in another country, I dont care if you shack up for 2 months and live on the floor of the Vos gym with a rucksack full of M-150 and chilli peppers, its not gonna be the same.

Great points guys! I see Nephilim's point and agree a little (just like I did with ThaiGuy) but I can't fully embrace it. The sport is changing and reaching more people every day. That being said it's only a matter of time before we have a unified rule set (like I suggested 10 posts ago and Nephilim reiterated). The fact that the MOST prestigious boxing sanction body, the WBC, now includes MT is a HUGE step and a sign that change is coming. All that being said, MT has had a VERY slow development mainly because of lack of interest and the biggest sin of all...poor marketing. Westerners (especially we Americans) need to have shit gift wrapped and neatly presented to us with lots of bells and whistles with smokes and mirrors in order for us to embrace anything. I remember a few years back (before I was banned) how I made the same point I'm going to repeat now...MT will never be as big as MMA because MMA has better marketing and more mass appeal. MMA is sexy, from the ring card girls, to the brutality, the music and trash talking to yes, even the fighters (no homo). You don't see any of that in MT. Yeah there are some shows like 'SuperLeague' (if that even exists anymore), 'Its Showtime' and K1 to name a few that have hot chicks and some corny dancing girls in between rounds, but even that feels contrived and robotic. It just doesn't flow with the MT culture and more important it’s NOT MT. Most MT fighters are humble and don't really like to trash talk and the fights have a build up that's as quiet as a catholic mass (I should know I’m a bad catholic). Coupled with the fact that MT in general has this spiritual/ancestral/ritualistic/tradition laden feel that most people don’t care for and will never accept. That is, unless they do as my friend AndyC said and they take the time to learn more about the sport and its nuances. But AndyC (and me included) are rare creatures, we actually take the time to learn about something and all its nuances in order to fully appreciate it because our appreciation and curiosity runs a lot deeper than the layman (I won’t bother mentioning fighters in this group of enlightened fans because its obvious the fighters embrace all aspects of MT). In the end, all these little details make MT too boring and unappealing to the mindless drones that outnumber all of ‘US’ the smart people and the MT community. Face it people, the world in 70% idiot and 30% smart and the idiots are out breeding us. That being said we need to package MT like a happy meal if it is ever to gain any real exposure.
K1 has done a great job of marketing MT but K1 rules are not MT but it’s the best middle ground available for now. MMA is good for MT because it is a core requirement to be a good MMA fighter along with BJJ (which is actually a lot more important). Taking all that in mind, the MT purists need to swallow their pride and accept the watering down or complete removal of MT tradition and spirituality or sit quietly and watch MT remain in its infancy (on the global scale) and eventually fade out of the media as whole.
Until MT can find marketing scheme that is high octane, brutal, trash talk filled, and ego-maniacal fighter dominated with lots of Tits and ass to boot, the fans will not come and as a result the money will not flow. In this global economy money is and always will be everything and the ultimate deciding factor in the MT calculus.

PS

Is this THE AndyC from back in the day?

El Capitan
Love, peace and aceite de coco grease!

it is Ernesto!

Just a wee bit older.

How the hell are ya man?

Its been too long bro, glad to see you're still on Ax. Don't see many of the old guard on here except for Sandy the mad man lol.

El Capitan

Ernesto your point about packaging etc. is a good one - but it's off topic. the issue with JWP nad yod's fight - and indeed, with many fights - is that various places think they can change the scoring criteria and still call it Muay Thai. Sure, things need to, and are changing to bring the sport forward and into the mainstream. The scoring isn't one of those things. MMA has a very similar scoring criteria where striking is concerned, the vast majority of it's viewers don't have a clue how to score it, but it still doesn't stop them from enjoying it.

So, in essence, what you're saying may be completely valid but it's irrelevant to the subject at hand. The scoring criteria for thai boxing has already been made and has been used for a long time. There's no excuse for the aussies, or anywhere else for that matter, to make their own set of scoring criteria simply because they can't compete under the original set. And lets be completely honest - that's the case. It doesn't make fights mroe interesting - it makes them look scrappy.

Even the few people who THINK they're scoring thai style are sometimes suspect. Just go back and read WMM's original article about the original fights. The guy clearly doesn't know how to score thai style. Although there may be a slight bias in JWP's favor confusing matters.

Fair enough, it may be off topic but it's relevant to the whole scoring discussion.

Don't get me wrong I agree with what you're saying in regards to scoring. In the same breath I'm trying to reach a middle ground and also make the argument as to why MT needs to unify, modernize or whatever in order to become more widely accepted/marketable.

Back on topic...

The only solution to this thing I reckon is JWP coming on here and giving his view on what happened. I doubt he'll do that though. So since he won't come and enlighten us all with is view on what took place, the next best thing is a 4th fight, in Thailand or where ever with an all Thai or Nephilim and AndyC types judging panel.

What do you think?

El Capitan

Why should Wayne Parr have to justify taking a win? Once a win or loss is in the books its history, get over it. If people want to whinge on about different scoring, refereeing or whatever in differnt countries then get onto the sanctioning bodies and get them and their officals and call tham to answer. Athletes are athletes, let them got on with doing what they do.

I'd like to hear Nephilim's point on Attitude's comment.

El Capitan

If parr didn't win with genuine muay Thai scoring criteria he didn't win the fight, simple as that! I don't agree mt is thailands sport but do agree there scoring criteria should be used for all fights!

so do I paul, I just went off on a bit of a tangent. I have no issue with the universal scoring criteria; although I do genuinely believe that it is a barrier to the sport progressing as fast as it should in the western world.

A lot of good points and in agreement with a lot of it... for me I do not make huge money to fight I love the sport just the way it is... a unified thai scoring criteria for anything sanctioned muay thai or even called muay thai should be the case.... anything else is a cheap rip off... I could really care less if inbread MMA fans gravitate towards our sport or for it to be mainstream... one thing that would help our sport (if that is the direction you want to go) is to have a Joe Rogan (example) type personality to endorse the sport when it is televised and to explain the sport... to be totally honest he has done a ton for MMA and the average Joe Public who knew nothing about the sport before... you even here many fans cheering for submission attempts and escapes so it has done something for the sport...

Andy i want to like you and actually find you kind of comical but just because I dont agree with you... it doesnt mean you get to flat out call me down and insult peoples intelligence level or whatever the case, if we are both fans of the sport that is all that matters at the end of the day weather or not we agree on everything shouldn't matter I find you hostile and immature sometimes... relax and find common ground... that we enjoy muay thai in it's purist form.

MT definitely needs an electrifying personality to "hype" key moments in a fight and thus allow the layman to appreciate the nuances of MT. Joe Rogan or a Joe Rogan type is an excellent choice, plus he REALLY loves MMA and loves to promote it. Good point ThaiGuy!

That being said, you can't call MMA fans "inbread" because these same so-called inbred fans are the people who will have a basic understanding of MT and thus appreciate and embrace it a lot faster. These fans are loyal and passionate about MMA and they are no different than any other demographic of fans.

If our goal is to make MT more recognized and standardized in order to avoid travesties like the JWP vs. Yod III decision, we need to accept and respect all potential fans and we have to be true ambassadors of the sport the same way fighters are.

Not a cool comment at all ThaiGuy. I agree with just about everything else you said about MT judging though.

For the sake of getting back on track...

Anyone care to give a round by round analysis of the fight and how they judge it? I'm about to do it and would like to see if anyone else cares to do the same.

El Capitan
Love, peace and aceite de coco grease!

Lol i did that near the beginning of the thread.

yeah you did lol.

El Capitan

Andy Point taken :-)
paulinthailand dont think Russia or any other country in the World has it as the National sport??
but..........
I would LUV to be Corrected than it makes Muay thai Bigger
:-)))))))))

Ok try loas, Cambodia and burma(mayanma). I'm sure on of the kazakstan Tajikistan countries also has it as there's too

This looks to me to be who you need to direct your questions regarding scoring criteria to. They posted on here on the 10th Sept with the WKA logo promoting the show. Be interesting to hear Demi's thoughts on the topic.
ALL MEDIA ENQUIRIES ::
Demi Eglezos
BDM
Mobile: 0406165218
Business: 93867797
Fax: 93867756
Email: demi.ppg@bigpond.com
www.powerplaygym.com

thai-guy ; I was responding to your accusations of 'arrogance' and may have got a bit over zealous; apologies if I offended you. You seem like a nice enough fella.

No worries Andy thanks, not a problem