Metal groin guards - Compulsory in Muay Thai

Sawatdee Khrup!

As we all know groin guards are compulsory in Muay Thai. The UKMF (and WMC)rules state that a fighter MUST wear a protective groin guard.

What is not stipulated is the material from which the guard is made.(In Thailand it is taken for granted that the cups are metal as they only make the metal ones for Muay Thai)

We are aware, due to the very nature of our sport, kicks or knees to the groin do happen (unimtentionally or intentionally)so it is obviously in the fighters best interest to have a protective cup (Both for males & females).

A few wear plastic cups and I feel that these are prone to splitting. On several occasions this has happend, much to the distress of the receiving party.

So, Metal cups? Compulsory?

SHAUN

yup 100% no metal cup, no fight in my opinion

safety first and common sense...

should be stipulated it has to be metal....

Metal groin guards are definitely the only ones that should be used. However, the cast metal guards generally used can and have split with a strong knee. I managed to get some from Thailand that are made of aircraft steel and you can hit them with a sledge hammer and they are fine.

sledgehammer testing should be compulsory to ensure guards are robust enough ;)

Tony is it not against Muay Thai rules to use a sledge hammer on your opponents groin...
(Just Joking before any one has a pop)

Only if they are deliberate Dave... accidental blows with a sledgehammer are not polite but could be overlooked in the spirit of the sport ;)

What about a Hurley Tony.......that would be allowed wouldnt it Tony?? :)

Just as a point of interest; Pre 1929 rules of Muay Thai, groin strikes were legitimate. Nak Muay wore seashells, or pieces of bark, wrapped in cloth to protect their groins.

Anyone knees me in the balls and they'll damage their knee. Balls of steel right here.

As Shaun says, the early Muay Thai rules allowed groin strikes with knee. However, these rules didn't change until relatively recently (early 80s). A number of other rules changed over the last 30 years including: ploughing, grabbing the ropes to knee, as well as kneeing the groin. BTW kicking the groin still is not listed as a foul in the Boxing Board of Sport rules.

Lol i was just about to ask about that tony as I was told this by another person from my gym a while back.

Has anyone tried the Shock Doctor carbon groin guards?

Disel Noi famous for his groin knee if I remember correctly:)

the cups from shock doctor are too small, the supports are good just slip a metal thai one in the strap and put some cycling shorts on top works a treat

exactly... or the under armour shorts have a cup space...do exactly the same...

so do we allow groin kicks in the uk then? if we copy the scoring and style shouldnt we copy the rules? what do you think?

its not very sportsman like but if it happens it happens have to dig in and crack on with it

so it is legal to kick to the groin here then?

yep....only an intentional knee to the groin is a foul...

if i were to keep kicking to the groin the whole fight and the fighter couldnt continue i would be decleard the winner?

im pretty sure its a scoring technique (though it would have an effect! but as its a bit unsporting etc i dont think its on to do so) but its not 'illegal' - under say UKMF rules...

thats just how i understand it....Liam is better qualified to answer this though...so dont take my comments gospel....

never leave home without my metal XXL

i meant NOT a scoring technique!!!

Ive seen a teep to the groin used several times in fights in Thailand but never a round kick intentionally I mean.:)

as i understand a kick or knee is allowed as long as it doesnt come into contact with the groin guard , so a teep just above the groin guard(lower abdomen)could sometimes be seen as an intentional "kick" (nearly put "blow" lol) to the groin.
whereas in boxing no shot should land below the fighters waistband..is this right?

only metal ones to be used!!!no problem!

im still unclear about this. Thanks for you all trying to help though. im just thinking about my next fight just running out and giving him a big old kick in the knackers that will finish the fight. Can i do this and still win? Really need to know this.

Are your shins/feet tough enough to smash a steel guard!?
lol

The Crippler thats a convinient name for this subject. didnt think of that(hurting my foot). but i think its still going to hurt the other guy plastic of metal.

When I fought on an AKA/IKF show last year the rules said that you had to wear some sort of groin guard and gum shield but didn't specify a particular type because you can't guarantee how well they fit. I suppose custom fitted groin guards would just be weird.

Interestingly, under IBJJF rules, any form of protection which may affect the outcome of a BJJ match is not permitted (http://www.ibjjf.org/rules.htm) and people have been told to remove their groin protection before fighting. Obviously it's a different sport and striking isn't part of it. On the one hand a box can dig into someone that you're grappling with, but on the other hand I've seen people curling into a foetal position because they've misjudged an armbar and driven someone's elbow into their crotch.

Sawatdee Khrup

A little clarification is needed here regarding a strike to the groin during a bout:

Firstly, here is an excerpt from the WMC rules on fouls:

ITEM 18: FOULS AND STRIKES VIOLATING THE RULES
18.1. Biting, eye gouging, spitting, or head butting.
18.2. Wrestling, back or arm locks or any similar judo or wrestling hold.
18.3. Deliberately falling on his opponent.
18.4. Holding the ropes for any reason.
18.5. Swearing or the use of abusive language during the match.
18.6. Knocking out or injuring his opponent after the referee has ordered the match to stop for any reason.
18.7. Deliberately striking the groin area

So, rule 18.7: 'Delberately' striking the groin area.
To me a 'deliberate' kick to the groin would be on that travels upward in a straight line and with intention.
If the kick is delivered let's say to the inside of the opponent's thigh and it makes contact with the groin 'without intention' then this may be deemed as an accidental blow and the fight must continue. If the opponent who has been accidently struck fails to continue then a count may be initiated by the referee.
Regarding knees, because of their close proximity in the clinch then a low knee to the groin will most times be deemed as a foul and the recipient of such a foul may receive upwards of 5 mins to recover at the referee's dicretion.
Again the referee will be looking at intent and damage caused.
The referee has the final decision as to whether they think the groin strike was with intent or accidental (it can be accidental due to poor technique abs therefore the referee will decide upon if this is avfoul dependent upon it's severity)
If a foul is committed by a strike to the groin with intent then the referee may do one of the following:
1. Give a verbal warning to the fighter that commits the foul
2. Allow the recipient up to 5 mins to recover
3. Disqualify the fighter that commits the foul if:
a) Their opponent cannot continue
b) they continue to commit the foul


SHAUN

In addition to the above:
The referee may also take a point away from the fighter that commitsbthe foul
(sorry I missed that out)

shaun

so best for everyone to wear metal cups....and be enforced - then no problems..

The WMC 'international' rules include the rule detailed by Shaun above. However, the Boxing Board of Sport (and as such all Thai stadiums including WMC fights in Thailand) does not include that rule - nor do the UKMF rules. Although there is an explicit rule regarding kneeing the groin in both Boxing Board of Sport and UKMF there is no general groin striking rule. As explained by Shaun, a boxer who has been accidently kicked to the groin fails to continue they will be counted and possibly counted out.

Not having the rule means that teeping the groin is allowed and any attempt at a genuine kick to body or leg is not penalised if they accidentally striking the groin. If a boxer goes I was lucky enough to be able to spend some considerable time discussing the groin strike rule (as well as other rule interpretations) with Colonel Boonsong Kerdmanee, last year. He has 60 years experience in the sport as a former champion, coach and referee and is amongst the most senior and respected officials in Thailand (at that time he chaired a panel of representatives from seven of Thailand’s leading stadiums convened by the Sports Authority of Thailand to standardise the rules of the sport across Thailand). He explained that it is not a foul to kick the groin but is considered to be poor sportspersonship and should be discouraged by the referee, although as suggested above, teeping the groin is acceptable. Deliberately kicking upwards at the groin (as described by Shaun above) is not acceptable here in the UK even though there is no actual rule that mentions kicking the groin.

I personally feel that it is better not to have a general striking rule, Such a rule can lead to lots of problems in fights. If you would like to see a good example of how the general striking the groin rule can cause fights to degenerate into a chaos of complaints and timeouts, watch the match between Zidov and Zak in the final show of the contender Asia. Despite being officiated by a highly respected and very competent Thai official (who has experience of refereeing across decades and has brilliantly refereed some classic encounters) the groin strike rule meant that the fight was constantly stopped after complaints by Zidov of groin strikes even when Zak’s toes merely glanced his groin area when kicking Zidov’s body and kegs. Groin strikes were really played up and made the fight a bit of a joke. Top Thai referees who officiate at the main stadiums are without a doubt the best referees in the Muay Thai world, and this referee literally wrote the rules and is exceptional, but this rule application made him look like they was not fully in control of the fight.

Moral of the story, fighters should wear a well fitting metal groin guard.

top post (as always) from Tony...