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Posted: 2012-01-21 09:50:33
Kettlebells have been around a long time especially Eastern Europe for training, military, athletes etc and they have been promoted a lot recently by classes / personal trainers etc. in effect you are lifting and swinging weights so im asking if these are better or to be used in addition to weight training for fighters? im not talking about cable weights either am meaning a programme with good chins, dips, bench, deadlifts etc.
Posted: 2012-01-21 11:52:14
i think they have an advantage in terms of compound and explosive movements and dont build as much bulk as traditional weightlifting it seems.

I find them harder to lift. essentially you will get out of it what you put in like anything
Posted: 2012-01-21 15:22:46
Kettlebells take a lot of time and effort to get right. If you don't get them right its very VERY easy to hurt yourself and most coaches I've seen telling their fighters to use them don't have the depth of knowledge necessary to keep them safe.

Check out this video - it's about 10 minutes long and it teaches only ONE the very most BASIC of swings as well but it gives you an idea of what you need to learn.

I've actually subbed that guys video as they're all very good.
Posted: 2012-01-21 22:47:57
Thanks for comments I'm thinking similar that they can be high risk for injury. Think I prefer power lifts for strength training.
Posted: 2012-01-22 16:42:59
Hell, at the end of the day they are just some old time weights for measuring sacks of grain etc that blokes in the market started lifting to show off how strong they are. Same as nunchucks etc are just agricultural tools that someone decided to hit his neighbour with so became a wepon. Then some know-it-all wanted to cash in and decided that it had to be used in a certain way and thaT he had the power of knowledge of how they had to be used. Just pick them up and swing, lift and throw them and they will make you stronger. If something hurts don't do that way again. Same as everyone wants to life tyres or flick ropes up and down on the ground now as if it has some magical quality. It's all about makeing the body work hard in a range of motions so to work all the body just like humans used to have to do just to hunt, gather food or earn a living. Get a spade and dig a bloody big hole and then fill it in again as fast as you can and you will get a good work out, it's just about making the body work hard. I love Kettle Bells but I can't see the point of getting too hung up on it needing special qualified instructors. As long as you uses some common sense any hard work will toughen the body up.
Posted: 2012-01-22 19:03:26
Attitude, that, quite frankly is one of the most stupid posts I've ever seen on Ax. And I read sandy's and farhad's regular like.

I can 100% guarantee if you don't know what you're doing, start picking up heavy kettlebells and just "swinging them about" you WILL eventually injure yourself. Not to mention gimping whatever gains you seek to gain from it.

Educate yourself a little in a subject before you start trying to give advice on it.
Posted: 2012-01-22 20:56:36
Hi Nephillim, how things? I take it that you don't agree with me then. No probs, it wasn't advise, I was mearly giving my views on the subject and people can take them as they wish. I picked up a KB and started swinging it some 6 or 7 years ago and have had no injuries from doing so. Nor have my son's or any of my students who have given them a go. A pity that your 100% guarentee of injury didn't have some sort of money back deal I could take advantage of, lol. There is nothing mystical about where kettle bells came from and how they first came into being a competition sport or exercise programme. Someone picked up a weigh and started swinging it about to show off to the other guys at the markets, then others joined in to out do him. The harder, stronger and tougher the man then the bigger the weight or longer they could use them. To be able to beat him the fella next door practiced to get himself stronger & tougher . Nothing fancy, it's not that serious to get ya tits in a tangle about it is just about; hard, tough men trying to outdo each other and get stronger in doing so. They had no instruction programmes, no special techniques, no personal trainers, no dvd they had to buy. They made it up as they went and developed it from there If you can find someone who knows a bit about how to use them or read up on it, great. I've read Pavel's first book and know how to pick shit from clay when watching UTube clips on them and I personally believe people get over the top about exact right and wrong ways and having to pay some "expert" to teach you. I'm in my 50's, come from a farming background and worked labouring jobs all my youth. You learnt to lift things with you legs not your back, and worked hard at lifting, hitting, throwing, digging and carrying stuff. You got callouses on your hands, had either rain on your face or sun burn on you back & built a strong, tough, healthy body from doing so. Now gym's are charging young people huge ammounts to have some instructor to teach them specialist techniques in how to lift hunks of cast iron with a handle on it, flip big tyres, carry objects in a "farmer walk" or drag heavy things that mimic stuff that men have done for generations and called it manual labour. Yes, every physical act has a right and wrong way and it's better if you have someone who knows a bit about it to show you the best way. I shake my head when I see guys in some modern gym hitting tyres with a sledhammer with no idea of how to swing one properly. But nothing too serious with that except if they have paid good money to some fitness guru, who has never swung one on a work site, to teach them wrongly.
Posted: 2012-01-22 21:08:51
ps, I don't know the lad in the vid posted but I suspect he doesn't wear steel capped boots for work or has had to wipe the frost of a crowbar on a winters morning. Seems a good enough lad, interesting stuff, but f me! 10 minutes to tell me how to swing a hunk of iron. Don't know many employers who would want to spend that long teaching the new lad on site how to use a shovel or swing sledge hammer. If fighters want to mimic manual ladouring tasks in their work out I say, go for it. I believe it gives a good balance to gym weigh workouts and make for a tougher body over purely "stronger" muscles.
Posted: 2012-01-23 16:37:33
Fair enough attitude you are entitled to your opinion of course, no harm done. Wasn't meaning to sound insulting btw, i just write how I talk.

However, there's a whole field of modern science that proves you wrong.
Posted: 2012-01-25 15:00:53
I'd be interested to hear of what injurys people have sustained or think you may sustain by swinging KB's, rightly or wrongly. Hitting yourself in the shin has to hurt but if you do that I suspect you have greater problems with coordination and timng. I'm not suggesting a newby starts off with the heavest end weights, I am only talking about around the 16 to 24 kgs mark. I know about centrifugal force adding to this but it's not excessive weights and force so other than slight tear or strain whats there to fear? I'm happy to be proven wrong, just want to see some facts or real cases.
Posted: 2012-01-25 18:53:54
a lot of the injuries with kettle bells are from people starting with one thats too heavy and lifting 'with their back' so to speak!
They can cause injury but so can taking the washing out of a washing machine (if you're me)!!!
I think between you both (Neph/attitude) you have both hit the nail on the head! You can get a good workout from any manual laboring replica, and more and more gyms are trying to emulate this in their strength and conditioning training (i know we do) BUT you do need someone there who at least knows the ways in which the body is likely to get needlessly injured if main points are not adhered too, lifting via legs, not over extending etc etc and yeah, this is all simple stuff that people who have done this shit in their lives know about (working in manual labour/studying health & fitness etc) but the amount of people that come into a gym who have literally never done any sort of fitness or s&c fitness before is unreal, and them picking up a 20kg kettlebell, swinging it up and down, backwards and forwards, in a vain effort to impress, whether or not its hurting them = some sort of ridiculous injury for them!!

so to get to the point, most people are actually that stupid (myself included in my early yrs of training) which is why its important to have someone to show you how to do stuff safely! a gym is not a farmers field, and unfortunately these days people sue over paper cuts so good, safe guidance is a must!

ps attitude, the biggest injurys in my experience are from dropping them on your feet ;)
Posted: 2012-01-26 17:00:11
Take your point about a lot of people not having the base understanding of fitness and exercise Marianne. But for someone who has a basic understanding of how to lift something off the floor, which I am presuming Jamie has, then KB's are a great addition to their training. I just get a little annoyed when these very simple, practical bits of metal get taken over by sport and exercise "experts" and turned into something that you can only use if you have paid a personal trainer huge $'s to instruct you on their exact use otherwise you will get injured. They are not dangerious, we are only talking 20 odd kgs. I have even seen modern plastic KB's that are ergonomically designed to spread the weight evenly and be kind on the hands. That completely goes aganist the whole idea of and what creates the benefits of KB's. If someone is on a tight buget then they only need to get a skipping rope and a KB, do a little research on their use and they will be all set to start their fitnesss and strength training.
Posted: 2012-01-26 17:31:08
i do agree, and yes someone who already trains should be able to do a little bit of research, buy a kettlebell and get going! i was refferring more to complete newbies to any sort of s&c training. They can be a danger to themselves sometimes in their eagerness...but yes, its a relatively simple concept!
Posted: 2012-01-28 13:49:48
KBs arent about lifting though. one of the biggest problems with kettlebells as well is people squatting them instead of folding at the waist. it just gimps whatever benefits you might get.
Don Heatrick
Posted: 2012-02-07 07:26:37
In my opinion, kettlebells are another strength and conditioning tool in the box. It's all about the application for a specific training effect.

They aren't the best tool for developing strength or power (back squats, deadlifts and Olympic lifts etc are the most effective for that). However, they are ideal for developing power endurance. It simply isn't safe to work Olympic lifts for endurance, kettlebells are (providing your technique is sound).

One isn't better than the other, they serve different purposes in your training plan.
Posted: 2012-03-02 16:10:01
good read and good points
Posted: 2012-03-06 14:01:59
there is definitely something about the swing which incorprates power without too much muscualr hypertrophy, basically 95% of people in gyms lifting weights are doing "static" exercise , ie lifting under a pretty slow , fixed cadence whist braced against a bench or machine. Little "real" body movement and not explosive. There is definitely a superior movement element to kettlbells i think.

also someone mentioned sledgehammers! another great training tool!
john walsh
Posted: 2012-04-18 03:15:19
I must say I absoultely love Atitude's second post.....CLASS.
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