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Topic:Is Pro Boxing Heading Down Kickboxing's Path?
Posted: 2012-05-09 04:29:13
This thread has been prompted by the recent news of the upcoming David Haye vs Derek Chisora fight.

Both fighters are no longer in possession of a British Boxing Board of Control license, and the fight itself is going to be sanctioned under the Luxembourg Boxing Federation, even though it is going to be held in the UK.

The BBBoC itself is a self-appointed regulator of professional boxing within the UK, and has also itself sanctioned boxing outside of the UK. Whether these bouts were in Countries where there were no current 'authority' at the time remains to be seen. At the end of the day the BBBoC is only a private Limited company, albeit run by influential types such as peerage folk, etc.

Currently, the British Boxing Board of Control have overseen very strict licensing requirements for fighters, promoters, cornermen, etc, and have an extensive network of area/regional committees that oversee activity within said regions. They also compile relatively up to date, accurate rankings, and titles, as well as dish out suspensions or revoke licenses where fighters are deemed unworthy. Kickboxing on the other hand is completely different from licensing, officiating, and rankings. In fact, very few KB orgs have accurate rankings, licensing criteria, or a solid network of officials. They certainly don't have regionalised committees.

So with all of this in mind, and no doubt i have left out some valid points also, but do we see professional boxing going down kickboxing's path? Will new UK bodies spring up ready to sanction pro events as well as bring in their own version of titles? Will we see pro boxing get watered down in the future? Will the BBBoC begin to lose it's control over the scene?

Without a proper 'National Regulating Body' it looks like professional boxing is going to go the same way as kickboxing has

Do we really want this in the UK for Boxing?

I hope not.
Colin Payne
Posted: 2012-05-09 04:36:23
Easy answer for me is lets hope not. The BBBC is by far the best fight sanctioning body in the world and any attempts to undermine it should be resisted by anyone interested in the future of the sport.

The Haye fight is a slightly worrying one I have to say and Frank Warren will sell lots of tickets thats for sure, but looking at the press conference yesterday I couldn't help but think its not a fight that has the best interest of the sport at heart

The IBF tried a few years back with IKB (UK) and the BBBC simply warned anyone that looked to work with them that they would lose their licences and it never got anywhere. The hope is that this would happen again if anyone else tried
Posted: 2012-05-09 04:49:05
With you on that Colin. I also think that Warren is going to line his own pockets big time because the fight is looking like it will be aired on his own boxing tv channel meaning increased subscriptions, tv commercial advertisements, big sponsorships, etc. Definitely a money spinner!

The BBBoC needs to do something quick to alert the relevant people about the potential disastrous consequences outside sanctioning could have on British pro boxing. Be it alerting all license holders, the press, the world bodies whom sanction their title events in the UK via the board, and other national bodies. Boxing only needs one body for pro, and one for amateur.
Dean Petty
Posted: 2012-05-09 06:49:30
I'm really Suprised at all this and hope it doesn't go that way Dave. I thought the BBBofC had to oversee all pro boxing here, like when they wouldn't sanction a fight with Tyson Fury against Frans Botha I think it was, ultimately they have the final say and that's how it should be. What can the board do though, say They'll never grant Haye or Chisora with another licence if they go ahead with it? Them two won't care but fighters on the undercard maybe reluctant to go ahead, same with Warren, could they suspend his promoters licence for it? Or can they not lawfully do that? I don't know, its a strange one like but I'd rather not see it go ahead, I can't stand chisora and don't want him to make another penny from a sport I love anyway.
Posted: 2012-05-09 07:09:51

Got license from luxembourg commission who have been going long first heard fight was gonna be in Switzerland now London watched haye train last week for it looked heavy handed x
Posted: 2012-05-09 08:23:07
Dean: The BBBoC are in a very fortunate position whereby they have been seen as the regulating body for a long, long time, so long so that promoters/fighters/coaches/the media appear to be under the illusion that anything other than the BBBoC is shady. Now this is a good thing as it keeps the Board's name up there and gives it prestige and makes it 'legit'.

If Haye/Chisora fight goes ahead under Luxembourg sanctioning in the UK, then this IS a threat to the high standards that the BBBC insist on as it paves a way for mickey mouse bodies to set-up within the UK. Let's just hope that everyone i mentioned above (media, fighters, etc) see it for what it is, a back-door to ignore the Board's licensing and standards.
Dean Petty
Posted: 2012-05-09 11:31:13
The way I understood it though was that the BBBC had a lot of control, like I said they wouldn't let Frans Botha fight Here even tho he had South African licence, hopefully they can do the same with Chisora with his Luxembourg licence. Also if any licensed pro fights in any other discipline like kickboxing or even 'white collar' or unlicensed boxing they have their license revoked I think? Is this not just the same and can they do the Same with Warrens promoters license. It will be interesting to find out like and see what happens. Altho I imagine Warren makes them a lot of money with the amount of shows he does so I doubt they'll do that even if they could.
Posted: 2012-05-09 11:49:27
Yes they could revoke warren's promoter's license, but will they considering how much the Board benefits from having him? If it was revoked it would then encourage warren and his stable of fighters to jump ship and fight on another sanctioned show. With unlicensed/white collar, etc, it's supposed to be a BBBoC license holder or official is not permitted to work unsanctioned (non-bbbc). They could have their bbbc license revoked.
Dean Petty
Posted: 2012-05-09 16:13:04

Interesting article there, it seems anyone involved could lose their license including trainers and fighters on the undercard. This will hopefully throw a right old spanner in the works for the event.
Posted: 2012-05-09 17:10:19
I read this article today that put a lot of this into perspective.

Posted: 2012-05-09 17:28:42
Very good statement by the BBBoC and if what they say about having a lot of support from the other National/World bodies, then it could be a very good stance from them. I don't think the fight will go ahead under the Luxembourg Boxing Federation. If it does, then a lot of people are going to be expelled from the Board's membership, which could in turn be honoured by the major world bodies, meaning they'd be unable to fight/officiate for a World/Inter-continental/continental title too.
dean perks
Posted: 2012-05-09 17:30:06
The BBBC have made this a problem. They gave an appeal date then withdrew it for no reason. They only gave a new date after the fight was announced.
Its about sport and most fans wanna see this fight so why stop it?
Yes Chisora is a twat so sanction it and let Haye woop his ass!!

Politics creeping in!!! Bull shit!!
Frank Warren bank rolled the BBBC for years yet in Germany there man was nowhere to be seen and let him down so why show loyalty?

You reep what you sow and as a company they have no authority to throw there weight around.
It wont go like kickboxing just like America!!


Posted: 2012-05-09 17:43:08
But America has State Regulated Athletic Commissions to ensure standards are met....... And let's not forget that the BBBoC have done a hell of a lot to become recognised as a leading, legitimate authority for British pro boxing, and is itself respected by many.

Yes, i too want to see the fight, but i wouldn't want the whole sport to fall on it's arse with mulit-sanctioning bodies giving fighters the option to float between them as they please like they do in Kickboxing, which this fight could be the precursor.

dean perks
Posted: 2012-05-09 18:12:18
I agree mate but its happening already. More sanctioning bodies popping up in boxing all the time.
The BBBC are gonna make a big thing of this but need to be careful as they may just engineer there own downfall.
Why not call Chisora in and read him the riot act and give him his license with condition and tell Warren they will sanction the fight but if he does go down this route they will ban him for life and his fighters. That way everyone gets what they want and BBBC maintain a bit of credibility.
Barry Hearn has created breakaway darts and snooker so why are we surprised that another promoter is going down this route?

Posted: 2012-05-10 18:26:41
Quote of the day i read on Yahoo/Eurosport News:

"17,000 tickets in one day! is this the first boxing­ match where the crowd should be Dope tested?"

Haha gotta admit though that is bloody good going for a domestic bout seeing as Chisora aint even that good, and Haye has only beaten slightly better opponents the Chisora.

Dean: The same article also mentioned that Warren had an offer to host it in Russia! That would be well outside of any jurisdiction of the BBBC. I get the feeling Warren in sticking two fingers up at the Board. I hope the Board withdraws Warren's license and anybody that's got anything to do with this card. They've all been warned.
Colin Payne
Posted: 2012-05-11 03:26:06
'I hope the Board withdraws Warren's license and anybody that's got anything to do with this card. They've all been warned.'..Yep I find myself in agreement with most of that. This undermines the board and could have massive repercussions for the future of the sport here.

dean perks
Posted: 2012-05-11 15:11:54
Are we aware that the BBBC is actually just a Limited Company and has NO affiliaction to sport England or any Government body?
It is built on respect but has become another shareholder run company with profit at the forefront!
People will disagree but your just fooling yourselves. It was a matter of time before money overtook respect.
If you were responsible for a road accident and your insurance company told you you could not drive would you listen?

Lets put it into perspective. The public wanna see this fight it has everything. So why throw the dummy out?
Why cancel Chisora's appeal then suddenly after this fights announced give him a new date?
Where was the BBBC representative in Germany?
Why not pay back Frank Warren for keeping them in business?
Hypocricy is a fine thing.

NO ONE in kickboxing can realistically criticise this situation!!


Dean Petty
Posted: 2012-05-11 16:54:43
Surely if the board was all about money though deano they'd want in on this event as it will make a lot of money and not b opposing it. I don't know the ins and out the way you seem to, but I do know that the board do a great job and in my opinion keep the sport safe and well regulated and opening the door for non bbbofc sanctioned events can only do damage to it. And you know my opinion on Chisora already ;)
dean perks
Posted: 2012-05-11 17:16:06
Agree mate. They would get involved. They are just throwing there weight around.
They should have banned Chisora instead of simply taking his license away.
I reckon it should be thrashed out and the fight go ahead with everyone back on board but I think there will be a power struggle.
It was always gonna happen sooner or later that someone would break away. I thought it would be Hearn tbf.
See you Sunday Deano
Colin Payne
Posted: 2012-05-13 05:27:30
'They should have banned Chisora instead of simply taking his license away'.. I'm sure they would have if they had thought this might happen.My guess is they assumed Chisora might go elsewhere, he has to earn a living after all. But this is different , this is Frank Warren threatening the whole structure of Pro boxing here, and believe me if you love boxing, the very last thing we want is splits of any nature, because no matter how well intended the first split might be, it will end up in chaos. Your have 10 british champs by the end of the week..sounds like kickboxing in fact lol
Posted: 2012-05-15 07:05:07
i actually agree with warren for once...i think he's a weasel but he rightly points out the double standards both in uk sport, global boxing and past actions or lack of by the bbobc

mayweather is permitted to fight despite being convicted of domestic assault and already sentanced...tyson was licensed after biting a mans ear off inside the ring

footballers are convicted of rapes, manslaughter drink driving or accused of racism and are still allowed to play football and earn a living

there's been british fighters who were refused licenses for health reasons that have been permitted to fight abroad without even a peep out of the bbobc...for once i agree with warren

this fight will put bums on seats though i think haye will spark chisora fairly easily
Posted: 2012-05-16 16:47:45
I agree that the BBBC may have handled it a little wrongly however Chisora was only ever suspended, of which he would have a good chance of getting his license back. Tyson, Mayweather, etc, are being regulated in another Country so it's not really a comparison. Tyson was banned by certain State Athletic Commissions but not others, though usually the Athletic Commissions stick together.

There is a good possibility that the BBBC could actually have quite a bit of pull that other National and World bodies choose to also place a ban on Chisora. Who knows? I certainly hope the Board does have this pull.

And yes, the fight is a good domestic fight, but let's be honest if it wasn't for the ruck they had it wouldn't have had so much hype about it.

I think Price would beat Chisora easily, and i don't think Haye will get into the ring again after this fight unless it's with a Klitschko brother.
Posted: 2012-05-16 17:35:46
price ducked fury..not sold on him or that midget promoter of his..reckons he made lennox lewis haha pish all he did was dress like a spice girl

apparently price was offered 100k to fight on c5 and still keep his sky much u think hes getting for fighting sexton..who chisora sparked twice...even midget maloney says if price gets hit on the chin its good night sky tv haha

nothing left for haye other than world titles tbh
Posted: 2012-05-31 17:49:52

Posted: 2012-05-31 17:50:44

part 2
Posted: 2012-05-31 17:55:16

I very much doubt people could be bothered to listen to the videos in full, but some very interesting points made by all parties concerned.
Posted: 2012-06-01 14:48:35
Dereck Chisora v David Haye
01 June 2012 | Area: Head Office of the British Boxing Board of Control


On the 9th May 2012 the British Boxing Board of Control issued a statement about a possible promotion within the United Kingdom involving a contest between Derek Chisora and David Haye. The Board understands that the Fédération Luxembourgeoise de Boxe has granted Chisora and Haye boxing licences and has sanctioned the contest.

For the reasons stated in the statement of the 9th May 2012 the Board condemns the actions of the Fédération Luxembourgeoise de Boxe and strongly disapproves of the contest, which the Board considers will bring the sport of professional boxing into disrepute.

Whilst the Board in its statement of 9th May 2012 indicated that any member who participated (as defined therein) in such promotion, would be deemed to have terminated his/her membership of the British Boxing Board of Control, it has now decided that any such member will be called before the Board under regulation 4.9 of the Rules and Regulations of the British Boxing Board of Control which reads as follows:

“ 4.9 A licence holder’s licence may be suspended or withdrawn by the Board:

if, having called the licence holder before it, it reasonably considers that it is not in the interests or the welfare of boxing that the licence holder should continue to hold his licence.

Further, the Board has not sanctioned the "undercard" as it is an integral and necessary part of the promotion which the Board considers will bring the sport of professional boxing into disrepute. Accordingly any member of the British Boxing Board of Control who participates in the "undercard" will be called before the Board under Regulation 4.9."

Nigel Eagles Thai
Posted: 2012-07-08 14:04:16
I fully back the BBBofC as a pro trainer, as we need a governing body to control the actions of fighters, promoters etc. maybe now is the time to instate an Athletic commission of our own to totally control boxing (pro and white collar0, kickboxing, thai boxing etc I am pointing this to BBBofC, put it all together and control it all for the sake of all the stand up sports
Posted: 2012-07-11 12:22:14
Well said Nigel, we have shown that eventually we are the ones to let ourselves down. The BBBoC have had the luck that they have always had this stigma that they are the legal governing body when in fact they are self appointed. I think a Nationwide Combat Sports Commission is what is needed, similar to the security industry's SIA.
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