A rally against the NYS athleteic commision!

TO ALL NEW YORK STATE FULL CONTACT, MUAY THAI, GRAPPLING ECT. FIGHTERS....
Ever since the nys athletic commision stopped letting promoters throw kickboxing shows, New York PRO and AM fighters have had to put their fighting on hold because of this. Let's not let this happen any more. They make enough money and corrupt other sports. They have no business trying to run martial art sports. Our sport falls under martial arts, and legaly they are supose to leave us alone. But they are trying to use an excuse that it fall under "any contact sport" they think its their right... They just want to profit from things we work hard for.."Let's voice are opinion to them and tell them to stay the hell away from are sport that we work so hard at!" We need to put these show back into our lives again...Let's not let political corruption corrupt the sport! Send e-mails, faxes, call leave messages whatever..JUST DO SOMETHING!

BERNARD KERIK- COMMISSIONER

New York State Department of State
New York Stae Athletic Commission
123 William Street 20th floor
New York, New York 10038

E-mail: athletic@dos.state.ny.us
Tele# : 212-417-5700
FAX : 212-417-4987

"WE CAN MAKE THE DIFFERENCE!" Thanks to anyone who is willing to voice and make a differnce!!

I've read references to this before, but could someone please explain in greater detail what the issue is? What ruling is the New York Athletic Commission using to prevent Kickboxing shows from happening, and why?

Here is the origional law law that the NYS Liquer authority used to shut down some shows in nys. In the law it states that they do not regulate Martial arts and the problem now is that the commission is sying that there is an aproved list of 12 organizations which none are kickboxing organizations except for the former PKA which was out of kickboxing for many years when this law was written in 1996.

STATE OF NEW YORK _______________________________________________________________________ 2193--A 2001-2002 Regular Sessions IN SENATE February 5, 2001 Introduced by Sens. ALESI, MALTESE, McGEE, RATH, VOLKER -- read twice and ordered printed, and when printed to be committed to the Committee on Investigations, Taxation and Government Operations -- committee discharged, bill amended, ordered reprinted as amended and recommitted to said committee AN ACT to amend the alcoholic beverage control law, in relation to certain violations by retail licensees for on-premises consumption The People of the State of New York, represented in Senate and Assembly, do enact as follows:Section 1. Section 106 of the alcoholic beverage control law is amended by adding a new subdivision 6-c to read as follows: 6-c. (a) No retail licensee for on-premises consumption shall suffer, permit or promote an event on its premises wherein the contestants 5 deliver, or are not forbidden by the applicable rules thereof from delivering kicks, punches or blows of any kind to the body of an opponents or opponents, whether or not the event consists of a professional match or exhibition, and whether or not the event or any such act, or both, is done for compensation. (b) The prohibition contained in paragraph (a) of this subdivision,however, shall not be applied to any professional match or exhibition which consists of boxing, sparring, wrestling, or martial arts and which is excepted from the definition of the term "combative sport" contained in subdivision one of section five-a of chapter nine hundred twelve of the laws of nineteen hundred twenty, as added by chapter fourteen of the laws of nineteen hundred ninety-seven. (c) In addition to any other penalty provided by law, a violation of this subdivision shall constitute an adequate ground for instituting a proceeding to suspend, cancel or revoke the license of the violator in accordance with the applicable procedures specified in section one hundred nineteen of this article

NEW YORK STATE SENATE INTRODUCER'S MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT submitted in accordance with Senate Rule VI. Sec 1 BILL NUMBER: S2193A SPONSOR: ALESI
TITLE OF BILL: An act to amend the alcoholic beverage control law, in relation to certain violations by retail licensees for on-premises consumption PURPOSE: This bill prohibits an establishment holding a liquor license from promoting or permitting an event or exhibition where contestants are permitted to fight one another whether or not the contestant is compensated in any way. SUMMARY OF PROVISIONS: Section 1: amends the alcohol and beverage control law, adding a new subdivision 6-c a) to prohibit a bar or tavern from holding or promoting an event which would permit contestants to deliver kicks, punches or blows to the body of an opponent or opponents, whether or not the event consists of a professional match or exhibition, and whether or not the event is done for compensation. b) the prohibition in subdivision a) does not apply to any professional match or exhibition which consists of boxing, sparring, wrestling, or martial arts and which is excepted from the definition of "combative sport" contained in subdivision 1 of § 5-a of Chapter 912 of the Laws of 1920, as added by chapter fourteen of the laws of 1997 (unconsolidated laws § 8905-a). c) If a bar or tavern, does permit this type of event, the legislation requires that the establishment's license to sell alcoholic beverages be revoked or suspended


I will also add the list soon.

There are many people involved in trying to resolve this issue . I have written and spoken to the commission,the state department of NYS which oversees the commission ,and my assembly person to start with. So far the Commission is not willing to ammend there list to include curent kickboxing organizations in the Us such as USKBA / ISKA/ USKBA.

The New York State Athletic Commission is in receipt of your email dated September 19, 2002, regarding kickboxing. In order to answer your question one must look at the section of the law in New York State which covers "combative sports." The relevant section - Section 8905-a of the Unconsolidated Laws - defines combative sports as "any professional match or exhibition other than boxing, sparring, wrestling or martial arts...the term 'martial arts' shall include any professional match or exhibition sanctioned by any of the following organizations: U.S. Judo Association, U.S. Judo, Inc., U.S. Judo Federation, U.S. Tae Kwon Do Union, North American Sport Karate Association, U.S.A. Karate Foundation, U.S. Karate, Inc., World Karate Association, Professional Karate Association, Karate International, International Kenpo Association, or World Wide Kenpo Association."

This is the part which is very confusing in this section of the law it states that they have the aouthity to add organizations to the list as long as they meet the requirments and they are refusing to do so.

The commission is authorized to promulgate regulations which would establish a process to allow for the inclusion or removal of martial arts organizations from the above list. Such process shall include but not be limited to consideration of the following factors:
(a) is the organization`s primary purpose to provide instruction in
self defense techniques;
(b) does the organization require the use of hand, feet and groin protection during any competition or bout; and
(c) does the organization have an established set of rules that
require the immediate termination of any competition or bout when any participant has received severe punishment or is in danger of suffering serious physical injury.

Well said and explained Tom, I'm glad youn have dedicated some of your personal time to write to the commission. I hope others will get just as involved as you did. But I'm a crazy motherF@#*%r! And if I could organize a show on the down low, believe me I would, because there is alot of talenred fighters who can't fight because of all this.. I think with good planning, and alot of sneeking around, someone can throw a show and get away with it.

I would like to know why boxing is considered an exception to the definition of "Combative sport".

It is also clear to me that Kickboxing (and even MMA) events follow the guidelines of consideration for organizations to be added to the "allowance" list.

Also, it appears that Kickboxing events can happen, but they can't be held at establishments that sell alcohol. Is that correct?

Are there venues in Philadelphia, New Jersey or other neighboring states where these events can take place, so that New York fighters will have a place to compete?

Hey Ricardo : I would not recomend anyone to try to do a show at this time as they are looking for A reason to step in.

Brian: I agree that all of the fighting sports with established rules should be allowed as they are now with most major boxing comissions . The law was written to oulaw NHB fighting in 1996 when they wanrted to bring the UFC top NYC. I agre that the UFC should be in NYC if it wants to be but this law does oulaw NHB fighting. This was A major public issue in NYC when it was made A law with all of the major polaticians.

The rules regarding liqueur are as it shows that anyone that has NHB where there they have a liqeur license will be shut down and they will loose there license.

By the way I have not had Liquer at my last 3 events .

This has been my entire point from the beginning with the boxing commission that this law has never outlawed Kickboxing only NHB as it was such A public issue and we have kickboxing on Tv in the same venues as boxing on A regular basis ever since the law was writte even using many of the same officials Referees and judges that work for the boxing commission.

This has only been in the last couple of months that the boxing commission has decided to interpet the law to read that it outlaws Kickboxing unless we are sanctioned by one of the 12 organizations that are on the list.

The list has mostly traditional organizations and point Karate organizations on it that will not even return my calls or emails.

I will continue to try to contact the 12 organizations on the list as I have been doing to keep our shows alive and others until they change either the law or there new interpetation of this old law.

I only hope that 1 of these 12 organizations sees this as an oprtunity to help them to gain alot of new buissnes while helping to keep the sport of kickboxing in NYS alive.

There are shows in new jersey and Conn but Ny has been A hotbed for Kickboxing in the US for years especially long island where my shows are based.

The 3 biggest promoters in the Ny area Lou Neglia,Joe Pulio,Ring Of Fire have based our productions on Long Islnad for many years. Louis Neglia has been doing shows out of state,Joe Pulio is waiting for the law to change and we are negotiating for some venues in Atlantic City, NJ. NY is our home town and where our base audience is and we should not be forced out of our home town. There are many other good promotions as well that are being put out of buissness.

The promotions will continue to get worse if there is no place for the up and coming fighters to compete. There is also A need for competition with promoters for the fighters purses to continue to grow.

I have 2 fighters in Atlantic city NJ on January 17 th and they are fighting for almost nothing. I can make more fighting in my school than both of these fighters are getting paid to fight tough fights.

When you take away the competition the fighters are the ones who suffer the most because they just want to fight.

If something does not change soon we are headed for the sport in this state going back to where it used to be where there where only 1 or 2 promoters in the tri-state area and there where the promoters champs and the chumps.

Hey Tom,

Like I said before thanks for fighting for the cause, but I feel bad for fighters that are unable to travel to fight on out of state shows due to work or personal reasons... I SAY LET'S GO UNDERGROUND, AND THROW SHOWS ON THE HUSH HUSH...But that's just my opinion...IT'S FOR THE LOVE OF THE SPORT..WHEN YOU BELIEVE IN SOMETHING THAT'S JUST, SOMETIME YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE LAW INTO YOUR OWN HANDS..!

I defintely don't think that's a good idea. That only puts you into the category of "criminal" which does not help the cause. I think that finding someone to put on shows just outside of New York would help to legitimize the events, by showing that they are equally as safe as boxing. In fact, I only assume that is the reason behind the Athletic Comission's ruling. Does anybody know?

They are claiiming that they aprove of Kickboxing that it is A legitimate and safe sport seperate from NHB and that they can not do anything but change the law which will take some time to allow shows to take place.
My problem is that there recent interpetation of the law and them not allowing us to have events until there is another law written.
I think that it is A case of them not wanting to be proven wrong at this point and not wanting to reverse there decission.

Ok, that makes sense. I mean, I can easily imagine them wanting to save face.
A fix for this problem, however, would be for them to place USKBA on the "Allowable" list. Wouldn't that be easy enough?

Yes,In all of my correspondence with the commission I have asked them to update the list to include the 3 largest US Kickboxing organizations . The USKBA /IKF /ISKA and they say that it is A law that can not be changed or interpeted in any other way which is odd considering that they have only recently been interpeting it to read this way.
They say that there has to be new legislation to change this status.By the way they have told my Assembly person Patricia Accompora that they have already put into the govenoer to sponsor new legislation so she now has to wait to see the bill to see weather she can sign on to it or not. She is only one vote in the assembly but she is also on the committee which oversees the commission.She is very helpful but she has said from the start that changing the law would take lot of time.

When kickboxing shows were promted they followed the safety guide lines...Insurance for the show was covered, ems and a registered nurse was there. so I don't see what the problem would be if someone through a fight following the same guide lines as before. The only difference is that posters can't be made so that the wrong people won't find out... and if the fighters sell there tickets to people who don't have a big mouth..I apologize if I sound ignorant but, some fighters justt can't wait for a stupid law to change.. I am pretty sure everyone will agree that we were just fine until all this commission s@%&!t happened..As of now I am trying to find a place to make a show or help someone make a show.."tTHE FIGHTERS WILL PREVAIL!"

Yes ricardo, you are right in that someone could get away with having an event under these conditions.

However, if politicians happen to catch wind of such an underground event, they might easily end up labelling the whole kickboxing community as one not following the law, from where it's not very far to stamp them as corrupt or criminal; do you think they would be more willing to listen to us then?

For me it's quite obvious that this would not effect things to progress faster in the direction Tommy Bee and others are patiently pushing it - actually I'm rather afraid it is more probable to end up causing a backslash!

At any rate, please try fasting until the law gets changed, or host small interclubs (which I suppose are not limited by the law), or host events outside of the authority of the law - otherwise you seriously risk spoiling the business for all participants (including yourself and your enthusiastic fighters) for quite a long time if politicians start to dislike kickboxing as a whole due to your event, in which case you will have rightfully dragged the wrath of all affected promoters and fighters upon yourself. Do you want to take _that_ risk? :)

I agree Andras that trying to sneak around the law will only hurt our progress at this point.

The commission has told me that we can not do interclub events or even exabitions in our schools.

If I was able to do small interclub events in my school I would not have any problem waiting for the law to change. I have already had to cancel 2 events that where planned for my school.

These events are used as fundraisers for my school(Our right to operate as a self defense school)) in the slow times and to give many fighters that do not get the chance to fight on larger events A chance to get started in competition.

This is one of my main issues with the way that they are stoping all kickboxing in the state ( This is very unfair ).Even in Boxing the commission does not regulate amateur events at all. As Ricardo mentioned we run our events weather they be pro or amateur in A very safe manner and very professional and they are taking our right to compete and have events away from us with no options.

Hey Tom,
I did not realize it was that bad that you couldn't even throw a small event in your own school, that totally sucks..And your right how would they even know? And as a business man it should be allowed for picking up business for your school...I feel for you..IT SUCKS!!!

Why don't you throw a small event ans advertise it as a belt promotion? Just trying to throw an idea...If you don't mind :)

Andras Kadinger: Don't get me wrong, I tatally agree and understand..But Lets think of it like the MTA's union strike that might happen...Its would be illegal for them to strike due to the "TAYLOR LAW"(A law that states no city worker can strike)But thats the only way they can get the negotiation to go their way. Nobody likes to do illegal things, but if you look at it, we were throwing shows an it was legal..now that a couple of low life politicains say a couple of bad things we have to completely stop something we have been doing for years..And to top it off, they want to profit from it too. Andras Like I said I agree with your opinion but I think I'll take my chances, It will take alot of time and planning..but to me its worth going through with...And I really don't think any fighter would have a problem fighting on the show even when they know about the commission and their so called law.. :)

FOR THE LOVE OF THE SPORT

What do you think about this letter?
I have not sent it yet. Give me feedback first.

---------

To the New York State Athletic Commission,

I am the owner of one of the largest Kickboxing websites on the internet (Axkickboxing.com). It has recently come to my attention that Kickboxing events are now outlawed in the State of New York. I have been informed of a lot of details, one of which being that the remedy for this situation is to wait for another law to pass. That will take a long time. In the meantime, there are many Kickboxing fighters, promoters, and trainers who are being inappropriately driven out of business.

The problem that I have with this issue is that the interpretation of the law has evidently changed. The law has been in existance for quite some time, with many Kickboxing events being held in New York with no problems. Then, suddenly, the N.Y.S. Athletic Commision changes their interpretation of the law to disallow Kickboxing events. I do not understand how this could happen. If the law has not changed, then why did the interpretation change?

It appears that there is a list of approved organizations that are allowed to sanction events.

Some of these organizations are :

U.S. Judo Association
U.S. Judo, Inc.
U.S. Judo Federation
U.S. Tae Kwon Do Union
North American Sport Karate Association
U.S.A. Karate Foundation
U.S. Karate, Inc.
World Karate Association
Professional Karate Association
Karate International
International Kenpo Association
World Wide Kenpo Association

The following is the part of the law which states the requirements for adding additional organizations to the approved list.

"The commission is authorized to promulgate regulations which would establish a process to allow for the inclusion or removal of martial arts organizations from the above list. Such process shall include but not be limited to consideration of the following factors:
(a) is the organization`s primary purpose to provide instruction in self defense techniques;
(b) does the organization require the use of hand, feet and groin protection during any competition or bout; and
(c) does the organization have an established set of rules that require the immediate termination of any competition or bout when any participant has received severe punishment or is in danger of suffering serious physical injury."

It would be a much quicker method of coming to a resolve by allowing such Kickboxing organizations as :
ISKA - International Sport Kickboxing Association
USKBA - United States Kickboxing Association
IKF - International Kickboxing Federation

...to sanction events. I know these organizations would willingly work with you to discuss how they could be included on the "allowable" organization list.
Please tell me if this is possible. If it is not possible, please explain why.

I would also like to know how Boxing falls outside of the definition of "Combative sports".

I really wish to come to an understanding with these issues so I can help the gyms, figters and promoters to keep doing their business. They deserve that right.

Thank you for your time and patience in responding to my queries.

Brian Ritchie
Axkickboxing.com

Ricardo...although I don't agree with that plan of action, I completely understand where it comes from.

What about loopholes? If Boxing is allowed, how is that defined in the law? If it refers to any event which calls itself "boxing" then could that be exploited? I'm just asking. I still think that it's a risk to try to get away with hosting an event. I remember the days when there were many MMA events that went on underground. That hurt the sport tremendously. Only in the recent year and a half have things turned 180, primarily because of the top three or four MMA organziations coming together and agreeing to a set of rules while showing the Nevada State Athletic Commission how it would benefit the state and the commision itself (money). That process took a long time, and there are still many hills to climb with legalizing MMA events in many states (including New York). Kickboxing should learn from this.

Are you allowed to put on "Demonstration Bouts"?

They do not allow "exhibition" bouts and would probably see "demonstration" bouts to be the same thing.

I mean,
Produce a poster advertising "Thai Boxing Demonstration" Call in fighters from out of State to "demonstrate" with your guys, Explain to the travelling fighters and trainers that there will be no "descisions" and just give the public a night of "Martial Arts Demonstrations"
So long as you have medical attendance it will not really matter if someone gets "accidentally" knocked out and at the end of the day, most fighters know whether they have won or lost so it wont matter if both fighters get their hands held up at the end of a 5 rond "brutal" demonstration!

...Just a thought!

Ricardo: I do not think it is worth taking A chance of breaking the law as they see it tohurt the future of the sport in this state.

Brian : I think that letter is very good and it is highly apreciated that this web site is willing to get involved in this issue .

It seems like I am the only one working to represent the sport of kickboxing in this issue with the commission . There are others working on this issue but only with there own interest at heart.

Dave: It says in the law and the commmission has told me that Exabitions/Demonstrations are not to be allowed of any kind if tickets are sold for an event.

I asked about doing exabitions in my school as A school fundraiser and they said that my school is not A non for profit org and it was not allowed. I told them the thruth that my school has never made A profit and it has been supported by the sport that they have no outlawed.

ricardo,

The state seriously depends on the work of MTA workers, so it was forced to negotiate with them and not punish them even when the workers chose to act against the law, because it had a pressing need for their cooperation, their services.

I don't think this holds for kickboxing school/gym owners, trainers, promoters: in their case the state would not have a pressing need for their services, so the state would not be forced to cooperate, negotiate with them, and could conveniently go the power way and prosecute.

The state probably wouldn't shed any tears seeing a couple of kickboxing schools to close down and go out of business, they won't lose much by that - however people in the kickboxing business/scene would lose quite a lot!

Andras,I could not agree with you more .

At some point, the corruption behind this is going to be revealed.

They waited 8 years to suddenly decide to use this law. First it was in places with alcohol licenses, then they looked for other ways to shut down events in other venues.

The existing law has a process by which new organizations can be added to the list, but the commission is now saying they can't do it...

My guess, boxing money is behind this

Set up a non profit making organisation, dont sell tickets just accept "donations" from "sponsors" and put on a charity show!

figures, as soon as I open my mouth....

check out USKBA.com for a new development

yeeesssshhhhh

to Brian: Great letter..send them a 1000 copies to those jerks at the commission..Thanks for supporting.

I think taht because kickboxing shows were getting alot of ticket sales, the boxing promoters were getting jealous...they probably thought kickboxing is a threat to their business so they got the commission involved..

Didn't kickboxing get banned in Canada because kickboxing was getting more popular than boxing? If that's true, boxing commisssions are just F@#%!ing
A!@#holes !!! A new year is coming and what the hell do look forward to seeing in new york, broadway plays?! HELP..

lkfmdc,

Is that good news?

I only hope that they wil have this mess starightened out by March.

It is A long process to make this happen .
In the mean time we can still not do any events in nys.

It will take until they say it ok to apply for A promoters license and then we will be able to begin planning events which normally take 2 or 3 months to plan and promote which will bring us to almost 1 year since having Kickboxing in NY.

I am still concerned as I have the paperwork for the Boxing promoters license in my office and it as nothing to do with amateurs at all.

My main point is why is the commission which does not regulate amateur boxing at all allowed to regulate and put an end to amateur kickboxing in this state with no new laws being made. Are they going to regulate amateur kickboxing when they do not regulate amateur boxing in this state or in most states for that matter?

Hey Tom:
How do you get a promoters license application..I'd appreciate that info very much..And your right, it does not make any sense that they do not regulate amatuer boxing, but they want to regulate amateur kickboxing..what is it with these people, do they hate kickboxing or martial arts in general!!

All you have to do is call the NYS Athletic control board in NY city and ask them to send you an application and all the many requirements like A bond,back round checks ETC.

I am not sure what the deal is why they have decided to try to put an end to Kickboxing in the state or just out it on hold untill they can make money from it.

The amateur part of this is what makes no sence to me. I know that you do not have to deal with the commission at all to do Amateur events.

My main concern is will there be A sport in NYs for them to make money off of by the time they are done.

TOM: thanks for the info. I could only imagine the hell they will probably
put somebody through just to get a licencs to promote kickboxing in N.Y.

Click Here for the USKBA news about the Commission. Evidently they're doing away with the "approved list" of organizations. Seems like something may happen by Spring 2003.

Yeah that is what they told some people.

I only hope that there will be more than one promoter around by the time that they aprove there new laws and then people apply and get there promoters licenses.

I am negotiating now with one of the 12 organizations that are on the list to do A show in the mean time.

I am also very interested in finding out what there position on having amateur events will be considering that they and and no commission that I am aware of regulate amateur boxing or kickboxing.

I have already sent the commission the notice of this and I am waiting to hear back from them.

We have aproached the commission with an offer:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ring Of fire Kickboxing has found 1 of the 12 organizations on the aproved list by the Ny State athletic control baord to agree to sanction our events .

We have sent A letter and spoke to the commission asking for the aproval of the NYS commission to allow us to do an event in the state with the sanctioning of one of the 12 aproved organizations .

They have informed us that they will contact the organization and make sure that they meet the requirements and they will get back to me as quick as possabile.

I only hope that this is the first possaitve step to getting the sport that we love back in NYS.

We are very aware of the plan to have the promoters in NYS have to get A promoters license and there plan of not having this list in the future.

This proposal is so that we are allowed to do shows in NYS under the curent interpetation of this law passed in 1996.

We will keep you all informed as we recieve an answer from the NY athletic control board.

have there been any pure kickboxing shows that have been stopped? i was under
the impression that all the shows that were closed down had grappling matches?
hopefully this situation will be fixed shortly........

Yes they have told me I can not do kickboxing only shows unless with an organization on the list.

also, they tried desperately to shut down both of Vlad's shows which had no grappling

Yes David,As you know that that is where it all started in Brooklyn with genes show first and then Vladamir's 2 shows then they shut down Lou Neglias event and so on.After that my events and Joe pulios have bbencancelled so far.

I was going to have 2 shows in the school by the end of january and I am now considering closing half of my school space this month so I can afford the rent .

My school was designed to do small events in to raise money and to artract more students.

i knew the fabricant shows had grappling, but i was confused since the
borodin middleweight tournament was allowed to take place after that.
or were there problems?

lets hope that the powers that be see the light soon......

Just read in www.womenkickboxing.com forum that a promoter is looking for female fighters for a promotion in New York? How can this be?

I just checked that out and it is John Carlo promoting it Upsate Ny.

I have never met this promoter but I think he comes on this site.

He is A new promoter and He is aware that all kickboxing shows in Ny are illegal unless they are sanctioned by one of the 12 organizations on the list.

He lives upsate in the Rochester area I think.

He E mailed me and asked if the new laws included amateur events and I told him it did so if he is doing it anyway it is taking A Big risk.

Let's give John Carlo a round of applause for taking the risk..CLAP-CLAP-CLAP!!
I know most of you people don't agree with this guy, and I know you think that this will give our sport a bad name...But in reality the commission has already given our sport a bad name that why they are doing this to us...So lets not be snitches and report Mr. John Carlo to the commission, let's support him as a feelow kickboxer and a friend to the sport..

Let's give John Carlo a round of applause for taking the risk..CLAP-CLAP-CLAP!!
I know most of you people don't agree with this guy, and I know you think that this will give our sport a bad name...But in reality the commission has already given our sport a bad name that why they are doing this to us...So lets not be snitches and report Mr. John Carlo to the commission, let's support him as a fellow kickboxer and a friend to the sport..

So as long as your not selling tickets for the event it is legal.
Is that right?
If so then I think it might be possible for Daves Idea about having people give a donation. Come up with a non profit charity organization of some sort. Tell the people that they have to donate to this non profit charity organization in order to attend the event. (coincidentally the donation will be the same price as the usual ticket)They will have to show their receipt of the donation to gain entry.

Or you can sell some sort of product in place of the tickets.
find something like a hat for example. Sell the hats at the door for the same price that the tickets were going for.

"So lets not be snitches and report Mr. John Carlo to the commission"

Ya better hope the commission isn't reading this international website.

TOM: you just throw your 2 shows and keep that space for your school available.. If thats not a charity reason that i don't know what is..every instuctor dedicates his life to his school..don't let these little threats destroy your work..to me its worth taking the risk..especially when you are about to lose something important..

Dread and Dave , Yeah those are good ideas and maybee someone can try them out.
It is worth looking into mkaing A non profit organization.

Ricardo: I am not willing to take any risk of breaking any laws as I have been in constant talks with the commission about this issue to resolve it and they have told me not to do an event in my school with out being sanctioned by one of the big 12.

By the way I am still waiting to hear back from the commission about my next show being sanctioned by one of the 12 organizations on the list .The organization has also contacted the commission and is waiting to hear back from them.

I will call them back on Monday if I do not hear from them until then.

I have already begun the process of breaking my school down to A smaller size to cut down on the rent. I hope to have it finished by early next week.

I wish it was not so but I have to do what I can to survive at this point.

I am splitting my space in half.This will hopefully help me to stay afloat until things get better for my school and for the sport in NYS.

TOM: Good Luck amigo!

Do you have any equipment that you can sell? Perhaps someone on Ax can buy it from you to help out.

Hey Brian , I have actually taken out the weight area and my office but I gave all of the gym eqipment to my friend who has helped me do alot of reconstruction in the last 2 days for no pay.

We have almost finished the entire project except for putting the mirrors up. That has to wait until the new wall goes up which will be next week . The landlord is responsabile for the new wall so when that is finished we will add the mirrors.

TOM: which organization from the 12 is willing to sanction your fight and have you hesrd anything new from the commission?

I spoke to the commission today and they said that they spoke to the organization in regard to sanctioning my shows and they waiting for them to return some information. they said that it seems as it will be OK and they will contact me when they have the answers to there questions.

I have not revealed which organization it is due to the fact that I want to see if I was able to get one of the 12 to sanction my events if the commission will let us do an event as they have said in the past.

If they aprove this organization as they should then I will anounce it and then it will give other promoters the chance to promote again in NYS.

I will be out of town from December 26 th until january 2 nd .The commission has said that they will try to have an answer for me when I return.

I will keep you posted as soon as I have an answer.

TOM: Thanks for keeping us posted. Hopefully when you come back, the news will be good news...

===I don't about anyone else, but this whole idea of a handpicked group of of arbitrary elites(sanctioning bodies) is really unfair. (Unless "our" group is one of those 12 I suppose)

Seems to me Any sanctioning body should have the right to sanction fights so long as they meet a reasonable set of established standards that don't unfairly impact women and minorites, (who often don't have the big bucks to pay for a "bond")

And hopefully this newly accepted organization won't become just like the people they have been fighting-and turn right around and favor one set of historically accepted set of KB rules (full contact?) and disallow the others the right to operate-SUCH AS the Muay Thai and international rules fighters.


I am glad Tommy is on the verge of success, but I hope the efforts to get to the root of the problem doesnt end once we have ONE single approved group.

OTHERWISE, we may find that newly anointed Kickboxing group may just start acting as arbitrary, arrogant and elitist as the 12 who now are in charge.

If that happens, we may find ourselves in a predicament where all fights in NYC have to have a six minmum kick per round rule, head gear, shin spats, No Muay Thai, or some equally absurd and totally arbitrary nonsense.

The root of the problem is people being arrogant enough to think they have a right to deny others the right to engage in consensual behavior which violates no one elses' rights.

That's BS-and that attitude the root of this whole problem,let's not forget it, wne we get one foot in the door.


Dan
, .
PS Is that Dennis Vacci person (a Pataki appointee?) still the AG in NY? It was he who originally thought the state had a right to meddle in private consensual behavior between adults?

Dan , I agree with alot of what you say. I do think it will be harder for promoters to do events due to the bonds and other issues but I am willing to play by the rules as long as they are fair to all that want to promote events.

I am very concerned with the issues concerning amateurs as they do not regulate amateur boxing at all .

As far as amateurs wearing equipment this is something that I think is A concern to many in the sport or observers of the sport. I think that this will be A big issue in the future of kickboxing in NY and in America.

As far as the organization that I asked for permission to sanction my events they will not have A bias towards any one style or another as our events as most in NYS have always had all styles represented on there events.I put exciting bouts that people want to see on my events in different rules and it really is never an isssue for our audience or the fighters.

I also never agreed with a list for the very resons that you mention that it gives power to them alone to decide the fate of the sport in NYS.
This is just A step to allow events to happen in NYS until they make the new law that will make it so all promoters will have to be licensed and there will be no more list or mandatory santioning bodies.

Dan , I agree with alot of what you say. I do think it will be harder for promoters to do events due to the bonds and other issues but I am willing to play by the rules as long as they are fair to all that want to promote events.

I am very concerned with the issues concerning amateurs as they do not regulate amateur boxing at all .

As far as amateurs wearing equipment this is something that I think is A concern to many in the sport or observers of the sport. I think that this will be A big issue in the future of kickboxing in NY and in America.

As far as the organization that I asked for permission to sanction my events they will not have A bias towards any one style or another as our events as most in NYS have always had all styles represented on there events.I put exciting bouts that people want to see on my events in different rules and it really is never an isssue for our audience or the fighters.

I also never agreed with a list for the very resons that you mention that it gives power to them alone to decide the fate of the sport in NYS.
This is just A step to allow events to happen in NYS until they make the new law that will make it so all promoters will have to be licensed and there will be no more list or mandatory santioning bodies.

What kickboxing shows are going to set off the new years...Give me the times and places and the main events...I definately know its not in New York :)

By the asking of many of you here on AX, we have been speaking with the NY State commision.
We feel a positive ending to all this but from what they have told us, it will take some time. Because of this, at least from what we can see, don't expect this thing to get resolved until a couple of months into 2003 if not till late spring. However, they did say it "Could" get resolved and organized before that time, but again, it appears it's going to take some time.

We'll keep you posted as we know more.