Many different things have come up on different threads...

hot/cold therapy
creams and ointments
nutrition/rest/mental
infrared
QiGong healers
water therapy etc etc etc

I thought a general thread on different healing methods might be in order. Its partly inspired by something new I experienced today.

Before i go there though I want to make a comment on arnica/traumeel

In my experience they are great and as I have mentioned on other threads they came highly recommended by many in the healing fields some of which are litterally world class.. That said i thought I should add i resently camer across a very skillful and knowlageably sports massage therapist who said his experience has been it doesn't do anything... just passing on what I've come across.. I'm still a firm believer :)


Laser therapy... Had a little today. My ART/Chiro used a couple on me. His better one he just got was charging still (damn lol).

Where he works they bought a $65000Cad laser machine that is suppose to be the bomb..

He told me the story of a guy they put it on. He had major burns and bruising on his thigh. They put it on for one session (time?) and he came in the next day and it almost looked normal where the pad thing had been...there was a clear line with the burn/bruise (almost black the whole thing was) between wherer the pad had been and where it hadn't (didn't cover whole area.

He explained some of the science and it kinda made sense as he said but above me to really follow and explain... basically its to do with frequencies and vibrations...thats all anything is after all.

The little cheap ones he used on me (red for nerve and green for soft tissue) seemed to have a very fast effect (though of course it could be plesebo)

Hes a believer and he knows his shit. You don't get pro US sports teams bringing in Canadians for nothing (he lives here still)..just got back from Paris and Rome with track athletes too..

Wondered if anyone had any thoughts or knowlage or experience with any of that and the thread its self for any type of healing info..

oh on the laser thing... he thinks its pretty useless IF the person is not properly hydrated, fed and rested.. why? All needed to heal... this just speeds up healing... to do with stimulating mitochondria-as i remember..

Have you heard of skins? Rugby players wear them and its the new fad for healing. Do you reckon they would work for Thaiboxers?

I would suspect they either work or don't work regardless of the sport :)

Can you tell us more. What are skins?

The Science | Who's wearing Skins | Gallery

How do Skins work?

Skins BioAcceleration Technology has been developed over years of scientific research. Ongoing testing of elite athletes have proven that Skins BioAcceleration Technology creates marked improvements in reducing the build-up of lactic acid immediately after periods of sustained exercise (2hrs and 15 mins up to 37% ), and allows for more rapid return to normal levels (up to 38% at 20 minutes). You experience less fatigue, minimise soreness and recover faster.

Skins are body moulded compression garments manufactured from the finest Lycra and Meryl Microfibre, scientifically engineered to provide support and muscle alignment to the garment covered area of your body. Skins will definitely change the way that you train and play as well as speed your recovery. You will feel fresher after heavy bouts of exercise and delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) will be minimised.


http://www.skinsuk.co.uk/ns/howskinswork.cfm

this stuff??

sounds like the idea is to help with sustained exercise.. I don't know that we should be doing that... but anyway never heard of... interesting..

anyone heard of??

I'm going to try to look into a little..

Been reading a little more.. Ver facinating concept.. cool idea..

I am certainly far from convinced though..

"We have created our new garments to wrap key muscle groups. Muscle wrapping works to reduce muscle movement and vibration resulting in reduced soft tissue damage. Soreness (DOMS – delayed onset muscle soreness) is reduced, recovery times are accelerated and muscle injury risk is reduced."
http://www.skins.com.au/ns/howskinswork.cfm

This make some sense to me. I'm no expert here but it makes sense that support the system and taking out vibration will minimize the trauma on the soft tissue..

But I see a problem with that..

How does the soft tissue strengthen? How will it hold up in competition? When the real stress is put on it? i could see a swimmer wearing when running... but lets say a runner wore it for training and ran without... does anyone else see a possible problem here?

Some of the same ideas with pumping blood... so in training you get help with the circulation and in competition you don't??

I could be wrong but it doesn't sound like a good idea to me...

Now time and place usage.. teams with big bucks using here and there at specific times for specific reasons...there may be applicational use there but as something to train in... I'm not convinced..

any ideas? anyone know more?

Reading more... seems that its suppose to help if you wear after training too... that would make more sense..

If it helps AFTER training then it sounds much better IMO

sounds more intreguing now... though I suspect the tests are payed for by the company...

sounds interesting and full of possibilities though

Yeah Mark that's what i was on about. It's the new fad amongst rugby players now days, well over this side of the hemisphere anyway. It used to be hot/cold but now it appears to be these things. I think they are solely for after training or a game but you do see people wearing them during training.

I never really looked into it just wondered if they'd work or not. Seems like a really convinient form of healing and recouperation though.

I have seen rugby league players wearing skins during games. Mainly the big forwards, but as I understand it they are used by players in their more injury prone areas. I suppose its similar to the way we strap our hands and some people strap their ankles. One of my friends plays league and he wears skins on his thighs under his shorts because of his position his thighs get a beating, they also use this machine for training that you stand on and do bodyweight exercises on like pushups that vibrates and is supposed to increase the intensity of the exercises by increasing your gravity. I havent read any research on it and cant remember what its called but I tried it at the football club and if it didnt cost several thousand dollars I would buy one myself.
I have also tried laser and its fantastic and I got an infared sauna and it seems to work really well for me and Im a sucker for the thai liniment but it may just be that I like the smell of it:)

You think it would be useful after a hard fight or hard training session?

Liniment fixes everything and does smell very nice. :)

Infrared sauna would be cool...

It sounds good to me. I would personally look into it more though for the simple reason that the info I can find is only from the guys selling it..

During training would be silly I think. After training or even in the sport it makes sense.

I don't wrap my hands or wear ankle supports in training-the body is very very energy efficient or at least it is when it can be.. when you suppoort somehting your body doesn't have to... If I have an injury then I may wrap as it heals..

I'll ask around and see what I can find out (not that that makes it true or anything but it interests me also. I see my ART/chiro guy with the lasers Tues and I'll try to remember..

Anyone know where to get some independant info on it?

I'll also look/ask around as im at Uni at the moment so some lecturers may have some opinions.

cool cool. I take oit some are in realted fields? If so I would guess ones that just out or keep up thier training or contact with whats current would be best, no?

I don't know how good the rugby teams are with that type of stuff... Have any idea?

I mean cause they are using should be an indication...

However the American football teams do some really stupid thing lol

I talked to my guy a bit more on the lasers. Actually also a friend who does physio (she said they aren't proven in some areas though vastly so in wound healing if memory serves).

Anyway they have a big one at one office and he also has a portable one..

What I didn't know is they are designed quite differently.

The big one with the cray results on the biker with contusions etc (not sure what I said before but he said contusions today).. It based on newtonian (spel?) laws..

His portable one is based more on quantum laws..

He is not yet! convinced on the portable one though he is pretty big on quantum stuff...

I used the pen one on a major blister while he used the other one and worked on my lower abs(didnt warm up prop and did a little damage). Probably all in my head but its looking quite a bit better. It is deep and right in the joint so healing has been hampered...

He hasn't heard of the skin stuff... I couldn't remember name... He was talking about some crazy ass siuts the military has that you can do wild stuff in...

Also a grounding mat that has been developed (new one not yet out).. The theory is that jet lag is largely to do with the different electromagnetoc fields in different places and ajusting to that is the big thing (this is designed by a guy that was on an extreamly atheletes team). Unfortunatly for us lowly fighters I think its quite a pretty penny...

As my ART/chiro guy travels with athletes quite a bit he says he's gonna get one (he's in contact with the designer)... I'll try to get him to rent me it if I fight in a different place :) lol

Lecturers have anything to say???

Hey geoff what are you studying and where?

Hey Hamish im studying a bachelor of sport and exercise at Massey University in Palmerston North.

Well one lecturer says skins are over rated and another lecturer says they are quite effective so i'll wait until one of the top sport scientist at the uni returns and get his opinion.

Hey Hamish im studying a bachelor of sport and exercise at Massy University in Palmerston North.

Nice one bro. Snap

Im doing a Bachelor of science.A double major in sport and exercise science and Human nutrition through the massey university in albany.

Most of my papers are focused around Nutrition but a few are about the sport side of things, doing training principles and practice this semester, and did structural kinesiology in the first semester. Hope your mid semester exams went well bro.

Hot Sizzle-thanks!!!

What are your opinions of the knowlage levels in related areas of the two instructors? Are either current in the think of things? What does your hunch suggest between the two, or simply no clue? :)

I've talked to a few people now that are usually in the know... They haven't heard of them. Doesn't mean anything but usually stuff, if that good, spreads fast.

Well the guys i got my info off were kinda reliable but not as reliable as someone else i asked who has actually done a test on the skins. I think the other two guys just gave there opinions. I asked a guy today what he thought about skins and he said they were alright for recovery and to keep warm but the results of some tests they done on the skins didn't show that much of an improvement but he said they were alright. I'll ask a pretty reliable source when he gets back to Uni.

Hey Hamish im doing structural kinesiology and principles and practice at the moment. Learning all the origins and insertion points is definitly one of the hardest things i've had to learn. It's so hard to train and study at the same time. Did i read somewhere that you were fighting in Palmy this weekend?

Hot Sizzle-Thanks!!

This is from his experience in wearing (as an athlete) or testing as a researcher??

Cool, cool. The more info the better :)

Yeah, but its a different hamish, im fighting again in 3 weeks in auckland, funny though cause this other guy hamish is fighting sam fiamatai..who ive fought twice.lol sams gonna be sick of fighting hamishs.

It's so hard to train and study at the same time.bro I hear, my fight last week was tough right in the middle of exams ...highly stressful..but worth it.

Hey Mark it's from testing as a researcher.

Oh ok i thought it was a bit strange Stu bringing someone from Auckland down. Haha he will be getting sick of Hamish's. Oh cool is that on Kio's show? Im fighting Harley Love on his show. In the end it will all be worth the efforts and struggles.

How did you find it Mark?...training, fighting and studying at the same time? Or did you just concentrate on one thing at a time?

yeah on kios show, was supposed to be fighting steve donalson now im fighting steve anderson..For his title I think.

Hot Sizzle. Its not hard or easy. It just is. I guess you just have to set your priorities and go from there. Of course my studies are not on such strict time lines, so I rarely have to cram so that would make it easier than you guys in the conventional school system. (I only did a few months at collage in S'pore).

But I think training smarter instead of harder helps you get more bang for your buck. Also living a healthy life style...well you're simply not fighting yourself all the time.

Finding time to train can be tricky as there are no gyms in the city I live in so you have to add travel time in.

The cool thing is what I study I also practice studing lends to training big time. I'd take a pad man and a gym over more time to train any day. That said what is is and either you do what you can and smile or you worry about it and complain. :)

first hand word (almost :P) froma researcher cool-thanks

Either of you heard much on the laser stuff?

I've mentioned a little of what I know but I also talked to a physio friend of mine and she was saying they were taught its not proven. I mentioned the one example and she said yeah the superficial stuff it works but unknown on the deeper stuff.

My experience with the zyphoid (I mention now as it friggin healing fast!!!!) suggests it works. Of course hard to say cause I got soe massage, use traumeel, used lots of infrared (have it on while meditating lol) and most of everything I do is to do with health and body function (food, sleep, mental etc etc). That said I have had the zyphoid process damaged before. Though worse and though I wasn't as healthy then it took MONTHS to heal. This was about a week (or less).

I had one treatment with the newtonian based laser and one with the quantum one. I wanted another with the first but no time..

Of course the plasebo factor has to come into play as well as I trust my guy and he is stoked on tyhe one anyway.... lol

Ultra sound-thoughts?

The guy I get the laser treatments from said he was taught alot anbout it and that it works but in his clinical experience he doesn't think much of it at all.

Nah i havn't heard/dont know much about other methods of healing. I don't even ice myself after fights because i can't be bothered. Lol. I just go through the pain an dthen wait for it to go away. Lol. The natural healing method.

I havent done any research or heard of any on lasers, but im keen to look into it...anything that will help heeling after a fight im keen to know about.

Ultra sound, im not a big fan of it. It could work for some but i went through a few different physios that used ultra sound and some thing else and I really didnt feel like it was doing much. I went and saw a physio who didnt use the ultra sound method and was just totally hands on, talking to me the whole time while massaging and getting feedback during the whole process from me, I found this the most beneficial method, might have been partly to do with the fact thatI understood what was happening but maybe also the human touch.

I only really go to physios that use hands on approach now, rather than put me on a bed with a pulsing electrode or rub a ultra sound machine on the spot and leave me their reading a magazine, just wasnt my style.

I get now how the ultra sound is supposed to work and I get the theory behind the electrical stimulation, but I have found that its not for me...and I get the feeling that a lot of physios just use these treatments without getting a really good run down from their client about the injury and their lifestyle and how the healing is going...

I'm kinda where you are with that in terms of hands on and I think your comment about human touch is GREATLY underrated!!!!!!!

Also the faith we have in machines, the physio and ourselves to heal plays a big role, IMO.

Also if one is healthy, one heals faster, period!

If your digestive system is stressed for example it WILL effect healing!!!

(slipping off infrared to go get some more breaky lol-back)

Why? Cause it is your body that heals. Any other method is to help you heal or to create an oppertunity to heal. Laser, for example, is suppose to speed up YOUR bodies healing process (if you are not eating/sleeping/hydrating well you will not get as good results)

So if its YOUR body that heals (do you guys even agree with that?) where does the energy and building blocks to heal come from?? Alot from food. If you can't digest that food well-guess what!?

If you have gas, bloating, distention in the lower abs etc etc etc... you need to look at diet and life style IMO

Or else you will be someone that jumps from one health care proffessional to the next and never gets results. IMO

Hamish-sounds like you found a good one!!!

Have had several physio's for knee problems and i really dont rate them, didnt tell me anything i couldnt really find from my own research for my problems anyway. At the moment I am seeing a chiropracter and her knowledge is brilliant, she has gone into far more detail regarding pronation, sacroilial joint, hips, core strength, leg length than the physio's ever did. I think many physio's are only suited to the average person who knows nothing about muscle groups and how the body works.

I also highly rate self massage (especially for legs), although the areas are limited and not as pleasant as someone else doing it. With training partners we give each other massages after training or the day after you dont have to be specially certified to do it just have some basic knowledge. I had never realised how important it was to look after your muscles until i trained in Thailand were massages are considered vital to normal health. Massages really helped me recover from some of the intense training. Hot baths also help and stretching.

I think the skins are designed to divert blood (and toxins) away from the muscles. I know of runners wearing tight tops to divert a little extra blood to the working muscle groups in the legs. I have also come across ice baths - not pleasant but you get in for around 10 minutes. The theory is the circulatory system vasocontricts and the body starts to go towards a state of hypothermia, blood (containing toxins) is drawn out of the muscles and into the internal organs to preserve heat, the toxins are metabolised. You then get out and the muscles are flushed with blood containing nutrients for recovery. There are similar Nitric oxide supplements available that work on this principle by diverting extra blood to the muscles.

I think chiros have a greater potential than some other areas because they don't totally follow the dogma of the western medical system. They are already thining out the conventional box. If you find one that thinks outside the chiro box too its prob a bonus :)

I think my chiro rocks-though he generally doesn't do much cracking (I think he knows my strength coach will give him shit lol) but seriously he has other tools as well.

There are quite a few chiros that also do ART...

The cool thing about more than just a hammer in the tool box is that not everything looks like a nail.

Didn't quite follow all-why would you want blood flow diverted away from the muscles?

Found out to day (maybe a bit of synconisity-spel?) that we have an IF sauna in town. Its in the back of a pottery shop.. Tried it out too..

Gonna look into it as well as see how I feel.

homeopathics-if you have any mint (peppermint, spearmint etc) in your body they don't work. Including toothpaste etc...

Traumeel for example..

just found that out though I htink its relatively common knowlage

http://proseriesusa.com/orderpage.html

I'm quite happy with these products. I have a couple and am using one right now.

http://proseriesusa.com/orderpage.html

I'm quite happy with these products. I have a couple and am using one right now.

http://proseriesusa.com/index.htm actually the home page is prob better..