I know most people on here don't like McDojos. But, I am thinking that you have to sell out a little bit in order to fund what you really want to do.

I have heard that kids bring in the money. I would like to make a McDojo for the kids, and authentic fight training for the adults.

I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with running a McDojo, and can offer some advice to someone who has never attended one.

Thanks in advance,
Wolf

Mc ??
as in Sandy Mc Doodle Mc Thrapper Mc Pressups?
Scottish Styleeee?
:-p

or what Does (Mc) Dojo Mean ?

What you say is not a mc dojo. What you say is regular commercial format of kb/MT. McDojo means a shitty guy with a shitty attitude playing the modest but giving fumes of A-class to whomever wants to get intoxicated, having had zillions of dan degrees and selling belts, building instructors and cloning gyms wherever he can reach and afford, and also the brown nose of no matter what baron or local/international bigger or smaller gorilla he can reach the ass of. You are such a thing ? Get out of ax, no room for such people here ! Want to do commercial stuff - this is a complicated issue. The McDojo guys who sell only nothing will be mercyless when the smell someone with a better offer makes money. Ah, i forgot. They are the sticky kind of idiots who feel bad about someone's success if this success doesn't include their petty self one way or another. :)))

McDojo is similiar to McDonalds.

It is a highly commercialized product that is intended to be used by the broadest category of consumers possible.

Arrrrrr Slang
Like It lol

I went to a Karate McDojo when I was younger. It started off sounding good, but after a short period of time I was left feeling ripped off because it was all for the money (the instructor even said "You can grade two belts if you like, just pay for both now"). He started adding more levels of belts to make you pay more (bronze belt?). In the end the disillusionment kicked in and people started leaving in droves, soon it stopped turning a profit and closed.
If I had paid all of the grading he asked for I could have made green belt, and yet had never been shown a single kick or even how to punch properly.
Its a pity because all of the students who went with good intentions have probably been put off martial arts for good.

Sounds F$%@in ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!::))

My aim to put together a program for 6-11 year olds. I have found that most parents don't want kids that young to learn real fighting. I know there are plenty of parents who would want their kids to learn how to fight, but the majority want their kids to have fun and learn "life skills."

I want to put together something that does that. Something similar to a P.E. Program in school, but it's vehicle is the martial arts instead of baseball, or etc.

I want it to be something that focuses more on discipline, good social behavior, and having fun, than the minority of people who want their kids to strap on a pair of gloves and learn to really fight.

I may have used the wrong term when selecting McDojo. I don't have much experience with anything outside of fight training. The martial arts moves that they learn would ofcourse be authentic stuff from Muay Thai, Jeet Kune Do, Arnis, Boxing, Boxe-Francais Savate, Pentjack Silat, Wing Chun, and BJJ, but they wouldn't train like fighters to use it. The martial art stuff would be mixed in with eye-hand coordination drills, and body awareness drills, aswell as social/moral lessons.

Fighting is a big turn off for most people when it comes to their 6 year old. What I am looking for is a ratio of real fight training to physical/social education that would attract the largest number of people.

I teach quite a few classes for children aged from 5 - 16.

The sessions normally run for an hour and that consists of
10 minutes warmup
5 minutes padwork
30 minutes actual ju-jitsu techniques
5 minutes where everyone sits down and
people show the class what they've learnt
(good for confidence building)
the last 5 / 10 playing games;

bulldog "grappling"

clock game which is;
all kids make a circle with
feet pointing towards the centre,
each kid is given a number 1, 2, 3 or 4.
You call a number out and all kids with
that number race one another jumping
over the other kids legs in a "clock"wise direction!

tunnel game;

get two teams of kids, mix their heights up
as it makes it more difficult for the kids
but helps with the bonding process.
The kids stand in a straight line with legs opem
to make a tunnel.
The first kid runs to a set point and
runs back past their team to another set ppoint.
They then have to crawl through everyone's
legs back to where they started.
Once done, the next person goes and so one.


Playing a few games, lightens up the atmosphere
but can also be used as a reward for the
kids doing well during the class.
ps. for 10 minutes you as the instructor get a break!


Good luck with your class Kedric.

The numbers of kids in your class
is also something to consider.

My maximum is 20 per class,
unless I have some teaching assistants to help out.

It is correct to wash down a bit classes for kids. It is a nightmare to discipline them until a team shapes, so what Onna said is correct, have small groups or have an assistant instructor for larger ones (although they tend to have the attention distracted much more easily so a group working on two separate themes can lead to them watching the others and forgetting about what they have to do). The program can contain things which will be useful later if it occurrs they want to become more than trainees for fun.

Mc Dojo in my place has a nasty meaning and I will give an example.

This guy was practitioner of - say - style X, a pretty reputed contact Karate style. He was nice and humble and did some good (apparently) things to spread the style. Then comes the nightmare. He comes with a diploma for a 3-rd dan degree (all the others had 1 or 2), registers the thing to a sanctioning body, becomes the higher ranked and starts a whole mess. After he almost split the style in two someone seized that the diploma was from year Y whilst the style establisher who allegedly signed that thing in nice Kanji's was dead and burned on the funeral stake into ashes TWO YEARS BEFORE ! No comment, haha !

They spit him out, he doesn't stop. He establishes his own style, goes to schools, opens programs. He went to a very posh school refurbished top to bottom by the local community, where parents of children are pretty well-to-do. Puts fumes into the boards' heads with a lot of blah blah. Takes twice the amount of the regular taxes and stuffs the gym full as the place has 3000 kids. Buys karategi's from a sports shop, sticks his logo, sells them thrice the price. Puts extra taxes for equipment, no one takes notice he didn't register the equipments on the school sports association as it was normal but on his club, so he even gets taxes diminished for having spent money on them. Last but not least he takes 600 E per child to go with them at an alleged "international contest" which is matter of fact a larger sort of interclub in a neighbouring country, where some schools agreed to have a brotherhood in sport and do some semicontact fighting. Top to bottom, evaluation is that he put in his pocket 15000 E in some one year and a half, for working 3X2 hours a week. No comment !

Onna and Unicorn

Thank you for the advice.

Do you know of any sources where I can get eye-hand coordination drills, aswell as body awareness and socialization lessons? I have found some lesson plans that are intended for schools, but I was wondering if you knew of anything intended for the Martial Arts that would help me build a lesson plan.

Yep, what you're describing is not a McDojo - that term tends to be used for those clubs that guarantee a black-belt in 2 years, as long as you sign up for an expensive 12 month lock-in contract. Also those clubs where the instructor is about 25 but claims to have many black belts in many different arts from organisations noone's ever heard of. Or those clubs that say their members daren't enter competitions in case they kill their opponents with some secret death trick, their art is just 'too dangerous'.

McDojos also tend to feel very threatened by visitors to their club who've actually done a realistic full-contact art and start questioning the training methods.

http://p072.ezboard.com/ftaekwondo67109frm1.showMessage?topicID=1679.topic

i agree yug
unicorn that story belongs in the "martial arts bullshitters" thread

To be honest kedric if i had the means id set up a kids traning program like the one that you are setting up but i wud include portions of KB and MT in there too.

I think a good kids syllabus would have say,.... TKD as a base with a bit of KB /MT/Ju jitsu thrown in and maybe as they go up the belts a bit of weaponry with foam weapons, kida love to play with toys.Of course have the optional "padwork and sparring only" session and teach THAT class like a KB/MT class so that way you are catering for both tastes

Black belt in 2 years?
What a load of bollox
pardon my grammar :P
A lot of my students who have been training about 3-4 years are still on Green/Purple/Blue belt !!!
One of my students , no sorry a few of my students have been Brown belts for the past 3 years alone AND it took them 3 years to get a Brwon belt in the first place!
I never grade my students to black belt, i l;eave that to Mr Henessey.
BUT i make the brown belt a big occasion i make sure they can teach as well b4 i give them a brown belt

hey speaking of McDOJO's a mate of mine went to check out this thai boxing gym, wehn he went in eh started asking laods of questions e.g. who are theyre figthers etc,...
he got to a point where all the students started givign him abuse then some of them started kicking and punching him!!!
I bet business is booming with that attitude :P
eventually one of them blurted out " We're a McDojo!" now why that iditio would want to say that is beyond me!

McPressups
McThrappers
McDing-Dang-Do
McGaramahee
McGarramaho
McEre all week
Mc AX Rules Ok !
:-p

p.s.
Im Totally
`McMad`
:-)))))))

These days you can buy black belts and official looking certifications over the internet.

Worse. It means you also can sell them, hahahah :)

Let's not immediately label a school (of whatever style) 'McDojo' just because they have lots of members, actually make a living out of it (How dare they!) and horror of horrors have no fighters!

I have two gyms and I know others around my area talk about how 'expensive I am', how as they don't 'make a living' out of it that somehow what they do is 'better' and that ' all I care about is money'...None of this they say to my back mind you!

Now they generally have about 20 members (total) and train in a church hall or similar offering two clases a week, and have nothing going on with regards to courses, events, etc. In other words they're the Martial Arts equilavent of 'Freds Cafe'. If by having over 200 members, offering excellent facilities, varied class structure, good equipment and an altogether pleasant environement to train in that makes me a 'McDojo' then that's OK and I'll order my clowns outfit tomorrow!.

'None of this they say to my back mind you!!!!!...Bad day I mean my face of course!!!

the difference is colin is that you teach proper stuff and youre guys fight on youre shows
i.e. youre guys are good

Well maybe, although you should see the ones I leave at home LOL. My main point is I've had people go on to me about this instructor and that instrcutor and how they're rubbish. Years go by and you finally meet these people and firstly they're nice guys and not the w**kers the other said they were. They also have good students and a very successful school. The others with their 'doing it the right way' attitude are just jealous.

In this day and age of choice and consumer knowledge if you are genuinely 'rubbish' then you will get found out, as the old saying goes ' you can the fool the people some of the time, but you can't fool them ALL of the time'. But I do think nice premises + lots of students does nearly always = someone whose doing it right.

McDojo doesn't refer to whether a guy has or no fighters, whether he is or not a good coach (all gyms have ups and downs and maybe sometimes "good coach" means lucky to fall on tallented guys) etc. Mc Dojo is the equivalent of an MLM system imposing high costs and producing no benefits apart pure symbolic ones, also adding costs by placing many fallacious links on a chain, and eventually adding aggressive terms when presenting themselves and/or thrashtalking other gyms just because they are feeling threatened by better or equivalent services offered at lesser costs. It also goes to various concepts such as claiming descendence from extraordinary grandmasters, world or national titles no one has heard about even in the same city, taking advantage of credit among students to entice them to buy useless or very over-evaluated items, selling expertise which is inexistent in relation to the goal claimed etc. etc. However they present themselves, as in later times some have become more shrewd, they go to the same issue : easy money, with as less work as possible, if any. It can go, in worse cases, to sect-type of behavior or enticing students into would-be metaphysic or spiritual paths of which the one preaching is usually following only for material or ego benefit. These can also substitute (or are presented as) the real tallents of a martial stylist or martial coach. They all fight/coach worse than imaginable but whoaaa what a shortcut on enlightening path they bring. Some variations include the ones who have no particular skills but kill the students with elementary physical conditioning and teach instead no technique or very rudimentary one. Typical idea also is that authority is not shared, not delegated, and if so - only to the brainwashed close followers, and is unquestioned in each and every field imaginable irrespective of the personal credentials of the students. Being old in the sport is an asset taken as self-understood and "who are you to know better" even more self-understood. Subtle manipulation includes exploitation of inferiority or guilt feelings and placing responsibility for failure to attain a goal on the trainee only. Some actually avoid to have any precise goal, the goal is a sort of a carrot hung in front of the nose of the hungry mule. And the list can go on and on ...

It is thus hard to differentiate such a thing from people just earning a decent living from sport and not claiming to have any other result performance-wise than the ones visible and tangible. It is even harder in respect to the schoold which are underlined by spiritual or energetically (internal)-oriented styles such as - say - Tai chi, Qi Gong, Xing Yi etc., as such guys always pose into gurus and claim endless virtues of wisdom. False modesty is another good cover, they are very very humble until someone touches the slightest material or ego interest, moment at which they pull out fangs and claws and become defenders of "the" truth or alternatively, of their right to be pestilent. Point at which mho is that what is to be done is leave them alone because in any event there's little to be done inasmuch as they still find followers, and to keep off their range as they are usually very prone to disruptive behavior when they feel someone can compare objectively things they say with things they do.

Colin

Can you give me any advice?

Give the People What They Want !
Simple !
And negative Advertising
"Doesnt Pay"
it "Costs"

I would say that Sandy has summed it up nicely.

One bit of advice for what it's worth. To run a successful 'commercial' school depends on your ability to cater for everyone. I notice you want to teach 'authentic fight training for adults'. Well I think most of us on here want to do that. Just be ready for when you open your doors and the first three people are a middle aged women with three kids, a shy un-cordinated socially awkward teenager and a stressed out business exec. 'Fighters' do not keep a gym afloat, and they can be a real pain. A good school should be able to cater for all types, and yes if you do get a young fit kid whose ready and willing to let you mould them in to tommorows Champion then that's great but make yourself accesible to 'everyone'.

best of luck

Thank you very much.

Yeah, what Colin Payne said is good. Gotta try and have fun with all the different types of people. Most people won't have the attitude and drive and goals of a fighter. Try not to let that bother you, just try to see what their different goals and expectations are and try to help them with that.

I am a Mac-sensei :))))

(Me and a friend devastating some Mc-products after a training session :))))

hahahah Mc Mad as a McFlish

...and sharing a smoke (this Arab-Turkish thing smells tremendously nice, hahaha :))))

Get horrified, lool :)

Watching is Better LOL

ooops Sorry
McWatching

McMd man Forgot
McOk

sorry 4 oversizing :|

I teach two kids (brothers ages 6 and 10). I am not really in teaching for the money. I want to make sure that these kids know kickboxing inside and out while getting a great workout and having fun. It's worked out pretty well but the way I teach would not work for most kids/parents. We do spar (lightly) and we run, hit pads, hit bags, and do pushups/situps. It's not easy, luckily I have two kids whose whole family has fallen in love with kickboxing. These kids are the exception, I have had a few kids either quit or not want to show up when they found out that we won't be wearing gi's and doing kata's. Teaching kids MT/KB is going to be tough if you want to make a living at it but it is possible, you just need the right mix of work, fun, and people. Either way, for me, it's been well worth the effort. In the five or six months that I have taught these kids they have improved tremendously! If they stick with it, both could be future champions.

unicorn:
that arab/turkish thing is called a Shisha

is shisha bad for your health?
is it considered a drug?

It is called "narghilea" in my place (nar-guee-leah) and contains no drug, just processed aromatic herbs and/or tobacco. As any tar inhaling, it will for sure damage lungs. Passing the smoke through water makes it somehow less dangerous. Very nice aroma of the thing, they have all sorts of brands. Loved the apple&mint kind. Pure Mc-Arab Sensei, hahaha :)

Kedric, you mean something like this?

or this?

or this?

I might be able to help

oops, might have gotten a bit carried away...

Kedric, check out some of the videoclips about kids classes on our website: www.usamuaythai.com and email me with any questions.