I know this topic has been exhausted many times before but i'd like to know some things.

To everyone and anyone!?

Does your gym/coach have a grading system for his/her students??
Who does not compete but is graded?
Who does both? Who only competes - and has no knowledge of any grading system whatsoever?

I know nothing about any grading system at all. It's just cos my gym does not do gradings. I am open minded however.

I remember at my last fight i was speaking to a bloke at the medical and he asked me wot grade i was - i said to him " Aye, am no bad" . He laughed at me and told me how he had a blue grade/armband??

Was it Vinnie McWilliams

no it flippin wisny

lol

na it wasnt Vinnie.
Anyone with any comments?

The only reason i got involved with Thai Boxing was because i thought it was different from ure poofy Taekwondo/Karate/etc martial arts. I was unaware that u could be "graded". I'd rather Thai Boxing was as a whole just like regular boxing where u train for fights in the ring. None of this lets turn up and pass a test to get a nice armband. I mean who cares if uve got lots of grades if uve not done it in the ring. Are you a good thai boxer if u've got ure red armband but never fought??

Please dont take offense!

I'm sure the 'poofy martial artists' will not even be in the least bit offended! lol

I agree though!

sadly not everybody who trains in thai boxing has got what it takes to step over the ropes, so the grading system is a way for those to acheive someting from thai boxing, but dont be fooled, gradings are extremely hard tests, especially the higher grades, and as for your comment on the (poofy martial arts) yes i think muay-thai is far superior to them all but as a thai boxers i think it is our duty to show them respect. its guys like you that give our sport a bad name.

hope that cleared up a little for you.

IGNORANT SWINE.....

I'm well aware that not everyone has wot it takes to fight in the ring! And did it sound as if i was not showing respect to the soft core martial arts - i'll show respect when i have respect for them.

But if someone does not compete in the ring - then can they say thai boxing is a sport to them - IMO no - it is nuthing but a past-time/keep fit lesson/"self defence" class.....

To your questions?
Yes we do!
yes i have!
yes i have!
yes you can!
No you dont have to!
yes you can do both !
If you dont like em ? DONT do them?
yes its good to have "choice"

Quick Question ?
has EVERY Boxer ? in the U.K ? or the world ? Fought in the ring?
ANSWER NO !
Do they have gradings ? ok no !
Does martial arts Have Fights ? YES
Do they have Grades ? YES !
Life and Martial-arts are about Choice !
YOU CHOOSE eh !
simple !
Now whilst your bored ! Go find another Interesting Input A/X topic we can all add to please ! cheers.
Me

well said sandy mate, well said.

Yep, sandy gotta agree, back on form mate, nice post.(and only a few CAPS!)

Don't want to get invlved but "the grading system is a way for those to acheive someting" so runners get what?? if they don't go to athletic meets. You can tell your getting bettter, faster stronger, more techniqical, confindent on your own no grading is gonna tell you what you don't already know. And when you are getting better your trainer should be telling you.

So if you go running ? for Fitness / and to increase stamina / fitness / speed etc: ( main aims for Running ) "Who tells you" ? if your doing better ?
NOPE bad comparitive, This Applies to this sport and either do em or dont !
this should end this topic ! but it wont ! coz some muppet will say but this? but that? but what the F*** ? i dont give a damn !
You give people what they want ! And give them the choice, DONT force them into
"Fighting nor gradings" !
Simple

what i meant was If you do it for Fun and the below ? on your own or with mates etc: ? ( as most do ! ! and NO trainer ? )
So if you go running ? for Fitness / and to increase stamina / fitness / speed etc: ( main aims for Running ) "Who tells you" ? if your doing better ?
NOPE bad comparitive, This Applies to this sport and either do em or dont !
this should end this topic ! but it wont ! coz some muppet will say but this? but that? but what the F*** ? i dont give a damn !
You give people what they want ! And give them the choice, DONT force them into
"Fighting nor gradings" !
Simple

Thanks Sandy for taking the time to answer my questions.
In athletics/running it is your times which tell you how well/bad you are performing i.e - competing against other people - in competition.
I still dont understand why gradings were even invented
IMO if u don't compete you should take up knitting.
I don't understand why people would want to train in thai boxing and not compete - if i couldnt compete i would get involved with another sport.

Johnny Boy thanks !
Can i say though, i was talking to my class tonight ( did 2 classes, first was a Advanced and fighters class ) the second was a Mixed standard of as i / we call em.... Beginners, Intermediates, Add: Seniors ! 3 levels of intensity etc:
The words @ the end of the second class was me telling everyone the benifits of Muay-Thai and martial-arts !" ( listed here below )
I really dont need to remind you and others but i will !
Words to the effect i said this, just earlier tonight BTW.
"many of you Wont go in the Ring ! and fight, most of you come here for tons of reasons" !
Like
a) Self-defence ( to feel safer / secure when out, as best you can ! )
b) Self-Confidence ( as above ) etc:
c) Feel / look / be fitter ( we all want that Great fitness/ energy fealing )
d) Help get yourself MORE self-disciplened ( say no to the last drink when driving or b4 ya pass out :p And saying NO in a situ: where you need to LEAD and be strong and NOT Sheep / follow the crowd etc: )
e) Improve motivation for Every and many a reason !
f) And alongside Improving, Flexability, co-ordination, balance, Self and others Respect! etc: etc: etc;
Need i go on ?
If you go to the GYM just to fight ? I personally think you are missing Chunks of the Bigger Picture !
Fighting is 10% of what it really is !
Unless your in Thailand ? in a FIGHTING camp ? and do it for a Living ?
Do you get paid to Fight any of you on a REGULAR wage ? type payment? do you Johnny Boy? and sustain a living from it ?? can i ask you and Any others this ?

I got £400 for my European Title !
thats 1 or 2 weeks wages for most people ! Can you fight every Fortnight ? week ? You know you cant ! Nor can anyone over here nor i doubt in the world over ! Only in extreme cases and as we know! Yes in Thailand !
its the National Sport ( same Equivalent to Our national sport
`and related pay`! id guess for playing the Silly sport of Injury-F-ball ! here etc:

So the 200 members i / we have and about less than 10% compete ! So what do you say to the 46 year old Dad who brings his son to my classes as he did tonight ?
"YOUR soft"!? get fighting ? haha LOl get real
Hes a Wage earner for his Wife and 2 teanage son / daughter ! Hes a Driver for a Paramedic Ambulance and a life saver BTW !
And the 36 year old houswife with `4` kids just trying to lose some weight at the back of the class !
Oh and the disabled guy i had once training at my gym with POLIO !
You tell him hes soft or whatever some of you think on here !
Get out your Villages and Check the real life in the Muay-Thai and martial arts world and classes and check some of their succes stories! I could tell you hundreds !
There was a Guy @ my gym who was on `smack`, who came off it and MuayThai stopped him he told me !
Yes he did fight as the "training" helped him overcome it ! as he had to be at the gym 5 / 6 days a week ! But then after his `1` fight ( did it ! achieved it ! )He didnt fight again ! BUT
He carried on training ! just for the Positive mental and Physical Discipline and Challenges it gives people !"
Oh and guess what he went and did after that ?



Took 3 Grades / Armbands ! LOL :)

hey ive well gone on one ! Sorry Johnny boy and co: BUT i hope this can inspire you too think in someone elses way ! And understand WE ALL Have a Choice ! you too !
cheers for listening / reading this !
sandy man

sorry but hopefully ? worth the read ! cheers for your patience above !

hope that cleared it up for those of you who are still in any doubt.

"IMO if u don't compete you should take up knitting."

That would most probably result in the closure of half the gyms in England as fighters gym fees alone would not cover the cost of running a gym.

Your a real visionary Johhny Boy !

Blah Blah Blah!!
I thought I'd exausted all the slaggers, blaggers, naggers and Daggers last time i brought this up. Careful you might get Colin H to give you his view in a minute. (LOL) no offence Col.

This thread was started purely to cause an argument and well done for those who didn't fall for it.

I'm off to do some knitting anyway. I apologise for wasting space in the gym with my 33-year old non-fighting body. I'm just off to my time machine to go back 20 years and tell myself to take up MT in the 80s instead of last year so's I can have a proper fighting career.

Me personally i think gradings are a brilliant idea.
Ok this is a story of one of my students,...
he did Boxing for so long,... but it was a case of just go in and punch a bag and jump in the ring to get used as cannon fodder,....either that or jump in and beat your mates up.
He got bored after about 6-9 months (one and off)
he tried Thai boxing,....same story there,..no structure,.. just go in and do padwork bagwork,..etc the fighters were the "elite crew" the rest merely fileld the spaces and made up the numbers,....
another 6-9 months later,... got bored moved onto sunday league footy.
Ok he comes to my gym,... finds out that the clases are structred,.. enjoys the variety,...etc....
Assessment grading comes up,.. he ends up with an Yellow Belt(3rd one up),... takes another grading gets Orange Belt,... starts loving it and asks me when he can take his Green Belt.He gets even better,... asks me "can i have a fight too?"

This is just one of many examples,....if it werent for gradings,... a lot of ppl would have got bored and gone back to playing sunday league footy

The thing is if you just had fighter-only gyms then most gyms would close down which surely can't be a good thing.

Incidentally, I never tell people I'm a 'thai boxer', I say I study thai boxing. I would only call myself a thai boxer once I'd had a ring fight. I wanted to do a full contact sport, I pondered straight boxing but the gyms I looked at were full of people 10 or more years younger than me and I would have been just a punchbag for them. Now in MT I know I'm improving in myself and from feedback from my instructors but I don't have a lot of confidence in my ability, I don't think I'm a natural and I think it will take a grading, i.e. a formal evaluation of my skill level, before I will have the confidence to fight. And the gyms are full of people like me, 90% of them will never fight. Most spar but not all, and they're happy with it.

So here is the question: Are you saying that ALL non-fighters should be turned away from the gym and not be allowed to study MT? If that's what you think fair enough, but where to draw the line? Should a gym only take people under say 25, because otherwise the fight career will be too short. Should they only take people who can reach a certain rank? Should they be kicked out once they're too old or if they lose too many fights?

Johnny Boy says '"IMO if u don't compete you should take up knitting."

I'm guessing Johnny 'boy' is still a young fit guy. He should be competing and good luck to him, assuming he has the talent AND the all important time to train AND a job which doesn't interfere with that (can't go to work in a bank with a shiner!) AND he has a good club which works with fighters. If he has all that then he should compete, but one day he won't be so young and he may have a wife and kids and a bloody great mortgage. Fighting won't seem so important then. However he probably won't want to give up his training, at whatever level he is doing it. Let's just hope he isn't in a club then that's full of 'johnny boys'

Cliche time - Martial arts is for everyone, and everyone can reach their own potential - whatever that is.

Cheers everyone for all your input.

Sandy if u decode a lot of the shite you talk - ure full of wisdom - thanks! U've opened my eyes a bit.

Yug - to ure questions, i dont know if they should be turned away from the gym if they arent gonna fight - my point being i wouldn't train in Thai boxing if i wasn't competing. No, they could take people over 25, never too old. Nope doesnt matter how good you are as long as your competing. No they shouldn't be kicked out - don't be stupit!

Well said Sandy, for once something sensible has come out of your nosense filled head..lol

You sounded very passionate about this, however I am sure Johnny Boy did not mean to offend I just think he put his point over in the wrong way.

JMO

MTM

Johnny Boy : >> "Nope doesnt matter how good you are as long as your competing"

Of course it matters how good you are. To compete, you must beleive you are, or will be good enough to do well. To compete, you must have the time to dedicate to training for this competition no matter what level. Not everyone has enough time to train for a competition but enjoy the couple of days training that they doper week learning techniques.

If you are not fit enough to compete then its dangerous. As you get tired your body will not be concentrating, and you may get hurt just because you are TOLD you should be competing just because you are training in MT.

Its personal choice, no one will tell you you should not compete, and no one should tell you that you must. Getting in the ring is a personal choice and n one should be made to get in without fully understanding the risks, and making the decision for themselves.

Not everyone is competitive, some people like self improvement, gaining all of the advantages that Sandy talked about above.

I personally will choose to have a go, but I have the same respect for the others that are not competing and they deserve the same time from the coaching staff in classes that they go to.

Non competing members doesnt have a negative effect on the people wanting to fight, but just ensures that the gyms have enough income, and lots of them will come along to support the fighters. Let people grade that want to, let people fight if they want to, but just because someone feels that they dont want to grade but want to compete, does not mean that everyone else has the same interests as them.

So.....

Let people make their own decisions regarding competing Grading, you have made your choices so dont force those choices on others as they are not forcing you NOT to compete

so good has come of all this ! it usually does !
But wheres MT-Don-fly when you need him ? and the graham chap? :p

Here Why

lol
better get flicking through all the topics then and graham too /
u havin a good day ?

Coundnt help but think of Andy Hugg, Royce Gracie, Mas Oyama etc etc.

Whilst you may love MT, please dont slag off other martial styles. Its not very becoming. Furthermore It is of interest to note, that Kyokushinkai Karate has an open full contact(no poofy Boxing gloves)competition where thay invite allcomers. I've yet to see an Mt Fighter enter or win, whereas the reverse is true of the poofy martial arts. Just look at all the karate fighters in K1

Just thought i'd play devils advocate.

Steven R - i'm not forcing anything on anyone!

Sorry Johnny Boy, I started off my conversation reffering to your point then started speaking in general but without really making this clear.


I do not agree with you saying that everyone should compete as you probably would not agree with the non competing students saying that you should train to not compete.

Free choice for both sides, I have nothing against gyms that cater for both, one or the other, but really cant agree that MT should only be taught to those looking to compete.

Great Posts, did I miss something Sandy (Don)!!.

Col has a very good point here. There is a lot disrespect shown to other arts on here sometimes, and most of it is out of ignorance.

When I started in the martial arts the big 'names' were people like Terry O'Neil, Brian Fitkin, Ticky Donavan, Dicky Wu and the man who is probably the greatest British martial artist there has ever been, Steve Morris. These people were real 'fighters', deserving of all the respect that some here only give to those who compete in the ring.

"There is a lot disrespect shown to other arts on here sometimes, and most of it is out of ignorance."

I agree with that.

Yes brian correct!
All are Good and usually its the Man or Woman IN the Style NOT the style itself !

Andref:
DON?
"MtDON-KING-Fly"
:p

Well said everyone !

Wow! I remember those names, Colin (Payne.)We had better be careful wer'e showing our age!
I Agree, Steve Morris was the Guvenor

Gradings were introduced because instructors realised that it was a good way to make money. That is a fact! However, they also provide other benefits. Few people want to fight in the UK and gradings give them something to aim for and challenges to overcome.

Yug's response is quite ironic considering his comments in the 'MT For The West' thread. He said then that he was attracted to MT because it was full contact and not watered down, yet here he seems perfectly happy to back MT in one of its most watered down forms! ie. MT taught karate style

What I was saying in that thread was that MT should look to ways to adapt to the needs of people in the west. Gradings is the best example of this. People who don't want to fight and may grow bored just hitting bags all day, now have something to keep them interested.

The more people we get into MT gyms the better it is for everyone who is involved. Even if they never fight, these are the people who will come to support clubmates fight, who will buy equipment, watch MT on TV and generally spread the word about MT.

HOWEVER

The problem lies with gyms trying to make people think that gradings actually have any street cred. ie. instructors making people think that all of MT has gradings and that everyone has to sit them. Bad Company make it very clear on their website that this ISN'T the case, but I wonder how many other gyms do.

How many people who pay money for gradings realise that they are only there for their personal use and have no other purpose? How many people realise that no matter what colour your armband, if you don't fight you are nothing in MT?

You might have a shiny new red armband but if you've never been brave enough to step in the ring then you can't stand shoulder to shoulder with those who HAVE.

We make it very clear
click

"Yug's response is quite ironic considering his comments in the 'MT For The West' thread. He said then that he was attracted to MT because it was full contact and not watered down, yet here he seems perfectly happy to back MT in one of its most watered down forms! ie. MT taught karate style"

Of course I'm not. I'm simply saying ring competition is NOT for everyone, as full contact karate is not for everyone. And if it was only fighters most gyms would go bust. Non-ring MT is still full contact.

"You might have a shiny new red armband but if you've never been brave enough to step in the ring then you can't stand shoulder to shoulder with those who HAVE"

I've never ever said I do.

Sorry i was having a poo im back now whats been going on ??? Cant read all that lot

G

Crazyhorse writes:-
Yug's response is quite ironic considering his comments in the 'MT For The West' thread. He said then that he was attracted to MT because it was full contact and not watered down, yet here he seems perfectly happy to back MT in one of its most watered down forms! ie. MT taught karate style !

WTF sorry crazy horse You might start good topics But that bit above "thrown" in ?
Was a bit naff !
What the Hell is karate Style Muay-Thai ?
Giz a Break !
This IS ENGLAND and the U.K. NOT Thailand !
Every country "borrows" a Sport and Teaches it "Their" Way !
Simple as!

I will now leave myself Open to the MTflyDon-Kings of the AX !
make what you want out of it ?
But heres our / my U.K.M.T.A Grading Sheet.Take
the P*** ! If you want to ? Those in
their 9 to 5 Jobs! who play and sometimes train in our sport !
Do i sound hostile ? Angry? Can you blame me as there arew some real Idiots who just dont understand the big picture ! ( sorry to the rest of you )
sandy man

Karate style MT is MT taught using the system of gradings which was developed by western karate dojo's.

If you read my post correctly you will see that I gave my full backing to this way of teaching MT. Please read my posts correctly if you are going to come out with outbursts like that.

Anyway, no hard feelings! Give us a hug! : ))

Arrgh
Soz
I was thinking it was a A MtflyDon-KING THANG ! going on again ? :-P
:))))))))))))))))

p.s Please dont refer / compare to arate ! as its Defo: NOT the same
:)))))

p.s Please dont refer / compare to Karate ! as its Defo: NOT the same
:)))))

My approach is that if a trainee attends a number of matches either with success or manages to stand ground at decent level against better opponents (= not to be ko-d cold in the 1-st round) then he will automatically receive a grading depending upon the level. His sparring partner or closest technical/strenght match in the gym will also receive the closest rank below, as no fighter is built upon only himself and the coach but upon the skills of the team. So one who fights will have his share and one who doesn't fight but contributes to the building of a fighter will also have it. People with good technical and coaching skills are promoted separately if they help to the coaching.

Crazyhorse I did think we were both arguing with each other but on the same side. Quite funny really. (;->

I'm not hugging you tho.

Yug no Hug
wot a GUY

Sandy - let those who oppose eat dirt. They will never understand what you are trying to say about gradings.
People will always argue (in a cynical stylee) that they only exist for money making. They will always ignore the benefits of a system to the individual that never competes.
They will always argue that it dilutes real Muay Thai whilst never recognising that the real (non Thai) Muay Thai trainers who also do gradings, keep them seperate from the fighter training and keep them in context.
They will always talk to you as if you are commiting a sin by making money, and accuse you (in a round - a bout way) of conning the public if you dare to include gradings in your system.
Blah Blah Blah - they will just never get it mate, so stop trying to convince them!

Bulldog ! "quality"
Cheers
:))))))))))))))))))))))))