This is referring to this other thread I made
Promoters using K-1 Trademark. That thread is a sticky thread to overview the issue. This thread is for discussion.

I don't normally create threads for moderation issues (it's one of the Ax rules, actually, to not discuss moderation issues on the forum), but this is an exception. This has been an issue in the MT/KB community for a while now. It's something that I and others have mentioned before, that promoters who have shows offering the same rules as K-1 events have to use some other terminology other than "K-1".

So maybe we can discuss some alternatives here that would make sense. Technically, K-1 rules are modified muay thai rules, but that certainly wouldn't look good on a poster.

By definition of the K-1 Association, there is no infringment of the copyright if there is no hyphen, so to write "K1-Rules" is therefore not a problem.

I agree that this is a mere bending of the rules, but it does not contravene the legal statement that K-1 Corperation have issued.

Well noi666, first of all, we're talking about a trademark, not a copyright. So that already tells me that you don't know what you're talking about :-)

I seriously doubt the courts would uphold the use of "k1" since it doesn't have a hyphen.

Here is the trademark record for K-1 btw...

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/t-find-number?detailsrequested=C&trademark=E6568356

I just searched that out too:
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/t-find-number?detailsrequested=C&trademark=E6568356

It also states that the "K-1" title is also accompanied by the logo of two-triangles.... Surely this isnt on all the posters as well?

Here is the K-1 trademark record in the US
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4002:chhf23.2.1

I understand what you are saying about just using "k1" or "K1" or however else you wanted to write it.

If people want to dwell on the detail then there is going to be disagreements...
I dont particularly care whether its Copyright or trademark, just that if they want to dwell so much on detail, then this "K1-RULES" is not the same as "K-1"

Hows about AFK-1 ?
Is that one ok? I know that certain "cage kickboxing " events call those rules (3x3 mins with knees to the head and limited clinch) UK-1 and CK-1

LOL.....as daft as it sounds, I might see if I can trademark the alphabet and all the numbers from 0-9, then whenever anybody writes anything they have to pay me royalties!!!!!!

LOL at Rich .... brilliant or stupid? (no offence)

Well if thats how ridiculous this is getting then it maybe a way forwards! LOL
By definition they are trademarking a letter and a number and it seems a bit daft to be honest.

Sure they do have a product, and people recognise the K-1 logo, and I think people are savvy enough to know that "any old show" with K-1 bouts on isnt affiliated to the K-1 Corperation - Japan.

I think the issue is if some one tried to used the logo along with publicising K-1 bouts.

I think it just shows that their style of fighting is being embraced and adopted by others.

however, a few years back we'd have laughed at someone doing the same to the colour 'orange'...............

organization, management, namely, administration for planning and hosting, and arrangement of martial arts tournaments and contests; booking of seats for shows; r


Does Not trademark a style or set of rules - just the promoting of a MA show!

So K-1 Rules is not trademarked !

That was a question BTW - not a statement.

Grand Prix rules?

Yeah, but they didn't invest millions of dollars in marketing over the past 15 years to create a "style of fighting". They established a style of fighting (or set of rules) by accident. The fight industry didn't really have anything describing that set of rules before, except probably Modified Muay Thai.

K-1 made that set of rules popular.

Now we have fight fans who want to see those fights, fighters who want to compete in them, and promoters that want to put on fights with those rules...but the only word we have to describe those rules is "K-1".

There was a similar thing with "Pride Rules", since those are more unique than most MMA rules. I've seen some people refer to it as "Japan MMA Rules" to get around that. I forgot where I saw that.

Just throwing a few things into this discussion for considerations:
------------

1.
---
A lot of European trainers that I have worked with, simply regard K-1 rules as Kickboxing.


2.
---
On the most recent K-1 World Grandprix, there was quite a switch from several years ago. By this I mean, back the the 'old' days it was

'Kickboxing' ( Generally Muaythai fighters)

vs

'Karate'.

Now we have KICKBOXING vs M.M.A. - with all of the K-1 Fighters from Muaythai or Karate schools being seen as the 'Strikers' with their 'Kickboxing' skill sets vs the new enemy / rival 'M.M.A.'

Some of the 2009 marketing by K-1, was...

... surely the most prestigious Kickboxing championship could not be allowed to be captured by an M.M.A. fighter ( Alister Overeem ). Especially after Overeem K.O'd 'Kickboxings' Badr Hari. Hence the delight for K-1 that Semmy Schilts is once again the K-1 World Grandprix Champion.

This is quite significant, after K-1 tried to dump Semmy, but shows how important it was that an M.M.A. fighter did not capture the Crown of Kickboxing.

3.
---

Another thing I would like to add.

SeidoKaiKan 'KARATE' developed the K-1 ruleset.

Seido was once Kyokushikai, known as the strongest/toughest Karate due to its hard-contact competition format and tough training regime. Many of the top Dutch Kickboxing fighters and trainers have connections to Kyokushinkai.

Basically the rules for Kyokusinkai Kumite competitions, known as knockdown allow:

Kicks, Punches, Knees ( with restricted clinch ).

- although the Punches are bareknuckle and not allowed to strike the head.

You compete more than once in a tournament.

No grabbing or holding ( ie catching the leg ).

Holding Knee-Kick ( hiza-geri ) is allowed only with one hand cupped behind the neck.

In the event of a draw, you do an extra round.

The above Knockdown Karate rules may sound familiar to the K-1 rules, because they are.

K-1 rules are actually seen by some as ' Modified ' Karate rules, as the Knockdown rules were modified to add the wearing of gloves and allowing punches to the head.

Obviously this did become a middle ground for 'Muaythai' Kickboxers and for Knockdown 'Karate' fighters. I just wanted to point that out.

Modified 'Muaythai' to some. Modified Knockdown-'Karate' to others.

-----

Have seen some use the term ' Japanese Kickboxing ', and also 'Oriental Rules Kickboxing '.

O.R. being used more extensively now in the U.K. by I.S.K.A. which I think is a good thing.

What about shit rules?

I am sure I saw an advert on Eurosport recently for the 'ITS SHOWTIME' event as Kickboxing, and this has got to be Europes biggest show.

The 'ITS SHOWTIME' World heavyweight title, headlining under 'Shit Rules' might not sell quite as many tickets.

:(

http://www.itsshowtime.nl/fight/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=167&Itemid=148

If you read the IPO cover - and try to understand how words are used to generalise and cover a multitude of things and can be translated by the individual to several meanings - "K-1 Rules" as a statement does not appear to have cover?

But to say a K-1 Tournament is not OK - as the K-1 Brand is as promoters and event organisers ??

It will be interesting to see what W.A.K.O. Pro. do about this, as they recently changed the name of what was their 'K-1 Style' format ( Kicks, Punch, Knee, Limited Clinch, No Ram Muay and no Ritual music ) from WAKO Thai-Kickboxing to WAKO K-1, and with that having K-1 rankings and K-1 Title bout sanctions.

http://www.wakoweb.com/en/InfoPage.aspx?Ctn=82046

Maybe CJP could give us his thoughts?

Here is something a couple of people have pointed out to me. Under UK Intellectual Property law, there is something called a "passing off" law which is sort of a catch-all law to prevent one business from appearing like they are somehow affiliated with or a part of another business.

So if a promoter refers to their event as "K1 rules" (even without a hyphen), it's obvious what they are saying. They are suggesting that their event is just like K-1. That is an example of using "K-1" to promote their event.

I don't think something like AFK-1 applies (Farhad was asking) because it is different enough from K-1, but that would probably be up to a court to decide. On Ax, I'm not going to remove "similar" names, but only direct uses of "K-1" related to promotions that are not affiliated with K-1.

Read more about the Passing Off law.

http://www.inbrief.co.uk/passing-off.htm

http://www.gillhams.com/dictionary/169.cfm

http://www.contactlaw.co.uk/Passing-Off.html

No offence neil but modified Kyukoshin karate rules IS basically a modifed thai boxing. Since the style of karate is KNOWN as you say as the hardest and toughest of karate styles BECAUSE of muay thai influence.

Just feeling a bit protective of my discpline here. And don't describe thai boxing as kickboxing. It's like confusing snooker with pool.

The key statement I have taken from that first document is:

"This attraction to a particular brand is what enables different consumers to distinguish between different brands on the market. The problem is that it is a very subjective test as the goodwill associated with one particular company may have very different affects on different members of the general public."

This basically says that this is a very subjective matter...
The only "detail" which IS OBJECTIVE is the use of one particular letter and one particular number.
There are distinct differences between the "K1-Rules" matches at shows in the UK, and the "K-1 Corperation Tournaments" hosted at the Tokyo Dome with 100,000+ audiences.

I think it will be interesting to see what WAKO do about the K-1 titles as highlighted above, as I think this then starts creeping in to the boundries of "trademarks".

But, to be honest, these are all semantics.
I dont host any events or have anything to do with promoting, I just think its a little silly, and the K-1 Corperation trying to flex its "Commercial Muscle"....just for the sake of it.

Nephilim writes:

"No offence neil but modified Kyukoshin karate rules IS basically a modifed thai boxing. Since the style of karate is KNOWN as you say as the hardest and toughest of karate styles BECAUSE of muay thai influence."

No offence taken and I agree with your comment on the Muaythai influence and result there of. Still, I was bringing to peoples attention that there are different view points. Some people actually think that Seido just copied Muaythai and watered it down, where others think that they expanded their system.

-------------------

Nephilim writes:

"Just feeling a bit protective of my discpline here. And don't describe thai boxing as kickboxing. It's like confusing snooker with pool."

And here in lies the reason for the situation confusion. In the UK there is a strong and determined insistance on the term 'Thai Boxing'. Fair enough, its a free country.

Yet in many other countries, wether you like it or not, Muaythai is refered to as Thai-Kickboxing or even Kickboxing.

When you watch the next 'K-1 World Grandprix', or the next 'ITS SHOWTIME' event, you may be happily watching Modified Muaythai or Modified Thai-Boxing where as someone else may be happily watching Kickboxing.

... now where was that TV guide listing again for the Master Sken show on SKY, oh yes there it is KICKBOXING.

:)

makes the kickboxers happy i suppose.

"There are distinct differences between the "K1-Rules" matches at shows in the UK, and the "K-1 Corperation Tournaments"

But there isn't a difference.

Hmm... Ok, I'll give you a scenario.

Rich Cadden Starts up a fight promotion called C-1, which stands for Cadden-1. :-) He builds it up over 10-20 years to be the biggest Muay Thai event on the entire planet. Even people that don't know what the hell Muay Thai is, they still have heard of C-1 and they know it means "badass fighters". When there is a C-1 event in town, it's something special, a must-see event.

So over time, other promoters start putting up posters saying "Cadden-1 style"... "check out the C-1 style fights."... "Cadden rules"..."Fight Night - Cadden-1 Rules"...

Those guys just stole your name. All of the above are examples of USING your hypothetical name (C-1 or Cadden-1) to promote their event. C-1 stands for Cadden-1. It's based on your last name. You built that name up to mean something. Without your hard work, other promoters would not be using "Cadden" or "C-1" to promote their events.

It doesn't matter if it's with a hyphen, without a hyphen, calling it style or fights or rules... it's all using the C-1 brand as a way to describing an event that isn't C-1 and has nothing to do with Rich Cadden.

If you, as the owner of C-1 or Cadden-1, allow that to run wild, then two things will happen...

1) you lose ownership of your own trademark. That is how it works in the US, and I assume it's the same in the UK. If you don't defend your trademark, then it turns into a "generic term" and you can no longer stop other competitors from using it. Coke and Xerox had this problem in the past with their tradmarked names. Adobe Photoshop also has that problem because so many people use the word "Photoshop" when applied to ANY editing graphics. Those companies had to fight to protect their trademark from being converted into a generic name.

And...this also happened to the word "Kickboxing". The first japanese promoter to coin the term "Kickboxing" apparently didn't act to secure their trademark on the name. Decades later, "Kickboxing" is now a generic word used all over the place.

2) The other thing that could happen (in the C-1 scenario) is your very own C-1 shows will not garner as much attention since EVERY show is now called "C-1 style fights". So you spent all of your time building up that brand name over 10-20 years of hard work, and other promoters just take it and use it for their own promotions, reducing the value of your brand. C-1 no longer has the same meaning that it once held.

The scenario with UFC is different because the underlying sport has a name... MMA. If other promoters want to put on shows just like the UFC, they don't have to say "UFC Rules event". They can say "MMA Event". But K-1's underlying sport is very vague. Is it modified Karate? Is it Kickboxing? If so, what kind of Kickboxing? Is it Modified Muay Thai? If we strip away the brand name that is K-1, what the hell do we call this? That is the problem.

Strip away "Coke" and you have "Cola".
Strip away "Xerox" and you have "Photocopy".
Strip away "UFC" and you have "MMA".
Strip away "K-1" and you have...... ????

Strip away " K-1" and you have ...Kickboxing!

http://www.k-1.co.jp/en/news/2009/1206_wgp_01.html

Taken from K-1 Website:

3rd Paragraph down.... "8 Kickboxers..."

Strip away " K-1" and you have ...Kickboxing!

http://www.k-1.co.jp/en/news/2009/1206_wgp_01.html

Taken from K-1 Website:

3rd Paragraph down...

" The lineup for the 2009 World Grandprix was by far one of the toughest ever. The 8 best heavyweight Kickboxers in the World..."

I'm not a lawyer but saying "K-1 style" or "K-1 rules" should be sufficient to get around the problem. As long as the public is not deceived to thinking the bouts are sanctioned by the K-1 organisation.

In much the same way as you can buy real Greek Yogurt or Greek style Yogurt.
Or in France some sparkling white wines are labelled "methode Champenoise" (Champagne method).

It may have been an opportunity missed that one of the main KICKBOXING sanctioning bodies like IKF, ISKA or WAKO-Pro. did not drop sanctioning various styles of Kickboxing like Full-Contact Kickboxing, Thai-Kickboxing, Low-Kick / International Rules Kickboxing and instead just had the one system - which in the current climate could have been to the K-1 style format.


As an example:
WMC Muaythai is what it says on the tin, and you dont get WMC Full-Contact Titles, or WMC Low-Kick / International rules titles.

It gets quite annoying when you see the heading ISKA World Champion, and that could mean Champion of one of several styles.

Brian Ritchie writes:

The scenario with UFC is different because the underlying sport has a name... MMA. If other promoters want to put on shows just like the UFC, they don't have to say "UFC Rules event". They can say "MMA Event". But K-1's underlying sport is very vague.

I usually agree 100% with what Mr Ritchie posts, but on this occasion, would beg to differ.

( Hope I dont get put on the naughty spot ).

I would propose that K-1's underlying sport is now recognised as Kickboxing, even by K-1. Hence the event reports on their official website, and the marketing of K-1 World Granprix being the Crown of Kickboxing etc..

Even though it has more in common with Muay Thai in terms of technique and scoring?

Just read your other thread, Brian, I think they would have great difficulty arguing that using the term "K-1 rules" is a copywright infringement. Though I think they would be right for "K-1 fights" or "K-1 fighters".

As with the Yogurt and Champagne examples. The use of the term "K-1 rules" is not intended to the fool the public, just an accurate description.

How do you get associated with K1? if I was to do a K1 show how do I get it sanctioned

I looked into this a long time ago, and at that time is was a closed shop.

K-1 is not as strong now as it used to be, especially as it let this current situation develop and also the incredible success of ITS SHOWTIME.

I have heard rumours though that part of the reason for this move, is an attempt once again at expansion. Even towards having officially recognised K-1 Dojo's / Camps. Much the same as UFC has just began steps in this very same direction with the openning of its first official UFC gym.

"Strip away " K-1" and you have ...Kickboxing!"

"I would propose that K-1's underlying sport is now recognised as Kickboxing"

--------------

But the word "Kickboxing" does not automatically imply K-1 rules.

Kickboxing is a mixed bag of sports that have major differences in their rules. If a promoter wants to offer K-1 rules bouts without saying "K-1", then they do not have a clear option.

They would have to come up with their own variation of "kickboxing" that implies "K-1 rules".

Imagine if I created a cola brand called "Tastes like Pepsi".

That's what "K-1 rules" is saying.

You're using a brand name in describing your own event.

When I Wikipedia K-1...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-1

Just read your other thread, Brian, I think they would have great difficulty arguing that using the term "K-1 rules" is a copywright infringement. Though I think they would be right for "K-1 fights" or "K-1 fighters".

As with the Yogurt and Champagne examples. The use of the term "K-1 rules" is not intended to the fool the public, just an accurate description.

"Tastes Like Pepsi".

Now that would be interesting.

:)

I saw on another forum a suggestion regarding this very topic..

As with the artist formerly known as PRINCE, maybe promoters could use, 'The Kickboxing system formerly known as K-1'.

Just looked up "Methode Champenoise" and it seems that the real Champagne producers managed to block that description within the EU so I take back what I said, K-1 might be able to block the use of "K-1 rules" though it seems daft to me when all the punters know it's not your actual K-1.

I'm thinking of putting on a show, its gonna be a special show with K-1 rules, I'm calling it Special K-1...... do I have to pay royalties to Kelloggs and K-1?

Wiping the tea from my keyboard and monitor!

Lol!

:)

Brian Ritchie writes:

But the word "Kickboxing" does not automatically imply K-1 rules.

Kickboxing is a mixed bag of sports that have major differences in their rules. If a promoter wants to offer K-1 rules bouts without saying "K-1", then they do not have a clear option.

They would have to come up with their own variation of "kickboxing" that implies "K-1 rules".

---

This is why I posted earlier that it is unfortunate that one of the main Kickboxing sanctioning bodies did not drop the multi-sanctioning of the different styles, and instead had just one system - for arguements sake being a rule set that is K-1 style. Then promoters could state their event was ABCD Kickboxing Championships.

If you watch a WMC World Title fight you know what you are getting.

If you watch an IKF, ISKA, WAKO-Pro world title fight, unfortunately you need to enquire as to which of the various kickboxing rule sets being used.

Someone could have potentially cleaned up with that - but thats hindsight for you.

Then BRANDS come back into play, hence the 'ITS SHOWTIME' world title.

If Rich Cadden puts on C-1 events in York every time with 100,000 people, then the promoter is linked with the high-quality show, with eligablity of fighters for the C-1 show. The very best.
If other promoters wanted to use the label "C-1 Rules" then this is a statement of C-1 Corperation success. Although the other promoters do not develop/put on the same level show. If other promoters put on the same level/better shows then my promotion is still positioned above the "C-1 rules" show, as there is a pecking order and a heirarchy.
Who started it all off?
Its raises the bar for me next time I put on the ORIGINAL C-1 show....

Sounds like a kid having a strop, taking his toys home and shouting "mine,mine,mine!!!!"

PS K-1, I understand, stands for Kickboxing,Karate,Kempo,taeKwondo...

If you allow other promoters to use "C-1" to promote their shows, without any complaint or resistance from you, then you are not upholding your trademark. The result of this (in the US, at least) is that you lose your rights to your trademark as your name becomes a generic term.

So another promotion could then come in and create a C-1 Europe, a C-1 USA, a C-1 Japan...without even asking your permission. You would no longer own "C-1". You gave up your rights to the "C-1" trademark by not protecting it.

If Coke didn't protect their trademark, then there would be multiple companies producing "Coke" soft drinks today. Coke would just be another word for Cola, and any cola company could call their product Coke.

hmmmm....OK.

So with the multi-million pounds that Coca-cola spend on advertising every year. When you go to a bar and ask for a coke, and they say is pepsi ok?
What do you say? Same difference....

To differentiate between K-1 and a "newly formed term for the regeneration of K-1", what will people say?
So we are fighting K1 rules then.....
K-1 is already a generic term, whether spoken or written.

People still know who the real K-1 Corperation is, and I think this is differentiated by the logo.
People who know, know what the score is.
People who dont know, dont really care.
K-1 Corperation prevails.

Richard I don't want to infringe on C-1, I'm putting on a show with cuddling, its a 3 man show with people, it's origami......

Shit C3PO has got me, skywalker is after me.......

I have to say showtime rules on tv xx

:) Nice one Vin! LOL

Basically if the Term - "K-1" rules has been used regularly without objection it becomes socially acceptable or common practice to do so.

I dont really think any one is trying to step on K1 shoes, here in anyway, but when advertising for fights looking for those rules what do we say?

some orgs call it oriental rules, others kickboxing.

Am sure K1 head office wouldnt be as petty as to take people to court who advertise looking for K1 rules fighters,.

a new code word for it maybe

ki

I have come in late to this debate so apologise if I am repeating any viewpoint that has been shared already.

There is a difference between K1 rules and K1 the brand. The brand is formatted in such a way that anybody wishing to advertise the fact that they are staging a K1 tournament or Grand Prix is asking for trouble and must surely be crossing the line.
Other infringements would be using only the limited weight divisions which would serve to mirror the K1 brand values.

However K1 rules are just another set of rules identified by the fact that they are fought in K1 tournaments. All that happenned here is that the wheel was re-invented.
In fact I would go so far as to say that it is just another version of modified Thai rules, modified a little more:)

If you take the weight divisions, round durations & format, this is not acceptable.

If you take the combat rules, add weight divisions, different round durations etc, all you have done is taken the rules, not the brand image.
K1 rules are quite a specific modification so I don't really know what else you can call them other than Kickboxing - which would promote confusion.

It is however true to say that there is "fashionable" leverage to be had out of the terminology. If you can measure that, then may be there is an arguement for infringement.

For me, it would be the simplist way to get the rules understanding across to the general public, as they are more familiar with the term K1 than perhaps International, oriental or modified rules as an explanation.

Is any of that right or wrong? I don't know. If K1 were to persue someone for using the rules, then may be they should be persued for modifying them in the first place.

If someone passes themself off as the K1 brand - thats a whole different story!

Who cares about K-1...S-1 is by far way better.

S-1 is the Future...Get with it you lot.

lol. Thanks for the input:)

noi666 writes:
hmmmm....OK.

So with the multi-million pounds that Coca-cola spend on advertising every year. When you go to a bar and ask for a coke, and they say is pepsi ok?
What do you say? Same difference....



Thats exactly the reason the Bar tender makes sure you are not being misled.

Its because Coca Cola and Pepsi are protecting their brands and the bar tender is not allowed to hand you a Coke if you asked for a Pepsi

I prefer Rola Cola x

What would happen if i put a trade mark on the word kickboxing or karate ?

could i charge peolpe to use it lol

I think it would be virtually imposable for any one to get sued by using K1 rules; after all, surly a multi million pound organisation such as coca cola would sue anyone (if they could), that use the name 'cola' to advertise their own drink, and there are a few soft drinks with the name 'cola' at he end.

"What would happen if i put a trade mark on the word kickboxing or karate ?"

You would be denied that trademark because those are generic terms.

Coca-cola doesn't have a trademark on the word "cola", so they couldn't sue anyone for using that word. Pepsi is short for Pepsi-cola. There are lots of other generic "cola" brands. "Cola" is in the free-domain, much like the words "milk", "cheese" and "bread".

K-1 was a brand name created by the K-1 corp. The value and meaning of "K-1" was built up by them, after millions of dollars of investment over 15+ years. "K-1" meant nothing in the fight world before they established its meaning. They did all of the work with brand development.

Any one of these other promoters that do fights with similar rules to K-1....they can develop their own brand too. In the MMA world, there is M-1.

ROFL at "Anthobbs" lack of understanding of the BRAND of K-1.
Anthobbs is probably one of those who walks round the streets in a "Tapout" Hoody and calls himself a "UFC Fighter" :P

What Anthobbs fails to understand is that due to people running around calling themselves K-1 fighters or K-1 champions, the prestige that was associated with K-1 is now falling dramatically.
Once upon a time it was considered an honour to be allowed to fight in the K-1 tournament (the REAL K-1 tournaments done by Paul Henessey) and now any old novice can call themselves a K-1 fighter.

Just googled K1 - theres K1 phones, K1 Crankshafts, K1 Motorcycles, K1 Cameras, K1 Transceivers, K1 mountain Range .......... oh and K1 Kickboxing!

Why not call it 'Japanese Kickboxing'?

Why are some many of you trying to justify stealing the name of another brand?

How many of you have actually fought official K1 fights or even watched one??

This whole debate is a joke... K1 is a brand and should be respected. I do use the term K1-style very carefully, but I have actually fought, train and worked with the K1 in Japan. I now meet so-called K1 champs who have never even been anywhere near the official K1 and I find this insulting to genuine K1 fighters.

I have been reluctant to post anything on this subject, but after reading all these posts it now seems obvious that something should be done by the K1.

Maybe the K1 will police it, maybe they wont, but until they say anything more I think we ALL should respect the brand.

Take some time to research the history and origins of the K1, Kyokushin, Kenji Kurosaki, Maeda, Ishi etc etc...

Osu!

Sorry for the multiple posts... Farhad, I agree 100% with your last post.


Osu!

I have Lee mate, lol!

I agree - there's alot of 'K1 Champs' out there...but there's only one tournament...

Smiler

Hi Gary, yes you are a K1 hero and should be commended on your fights... Btw how are you and are you still fighting?

Osu!

LOL Nice one Lee.
Gary Turner will still be fighting when he is 90 years old!!! (he isnt that far off now ROFL)

Speaking of which back to the topic (LOL)
There are a lot of people saying "XYZ" is the UK champion for K1 or that XYZ is ranked number 8 in K1

Then there are the K1 area titles/british titles/world titles,... etc

"Just googled K1 - theres K1 phones, K1 Crankshafts, K1 Motorcycles, K1 Cameras, K1 Transceivers, K1 mountain Range .......... oh and K1 Kickboxing!"

Trademarks are established per market. That can be a gray area, but it seems that only well-established company names could claim trademark across markets, such as coca-cola. In other words, nobody could create a T-shirt company called Coca-Cola T-shirts. But (as you pointed out) there are K-1 brands outside of the sports market. Microsoft's windows brand only applies to software and technology markets. The term "windows" is obviously used extensively in the construction market.

Some teenager in Canada started a web design company called "Mike Rowe Soft" (using his name) and Microsoft won a trademark case against him to have his site taken down and his name changed.
Here is that story on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_vs._MikeRoweSoft

I agree with Lee Hasdell's posts, and especially Farhads.

The primary problem is that fighters are contesting 'K-1' titles, and then state that they are 'K-1' Champions.

This is seen to be caused by certain promoters as the title of the thread states,

" Promoters Using K-1 Trademark ",

but in most cases these promoters are actually using a sanctioning body.

I would suggest the K-1 Corporation would be better addressing the sanctioning bodies that are giving out 'K-1' Rankings and 'K-1' titles as their immediate priority.

Ive lost count of the amount of people in Sheffield who keep going on about "K-1 titles"
There is a promotor in sheffield who puts on "K-1 titles" ROFL .
It is NOT me I would never dream of doing something so stupid.

The titles of fights with limited clinch and without elbows come under Oriental rules.
I liked Lee Hasdell's post about using the name Japanese kickboxing (which is what it is IMO)

Come on name and shame this promoter who puts on these titles ? who is the sanctioning body ? surly they must have a say in what the titles are called ?

I think promoters will still use the term K1 style or K1 rules whether or not they use the term K1 for title fights will be up to the governing bodies ( or so i would have thought)

i was only thinking this the other day when i got a call relating to why K-1 ( sorry we cant say it shhhhh lol )
cant be used... cant blame them it aint fair they are a company and so many over here esp: are misusing a BRAND name and IMO its not a Style of fighting.....(k-1 ) bare with me im not insulting here!
Ie:
Muay thai Boxing- self explantory
boxing same
MMA ( mixed martial arts ) again self explanatory

K-1 ???????????????????? huh ?
(japenese) kickboxing IS a Style though !
and thats what K-1 is Representing is it not??? !!!

its should have a name as its a mish mash and has constantly has had and also avoided the Thai Boxing, and wanted its own identity... fair enough !:)

but it needs a name so the players and supporters and all understand it
Ie:
KICKBOXING really should be the name ( or / and with Japanese in front of the name )
then everyone can start using that Name / Rules again and it have a True'er meaning and name to be recognised !
as F.C. ( again wrong name imo as they only kick above waist and cant do this that and the other ( sorry guys, but true ) hardly a a Good Name for "FULL CONTACT"? fighting is it ? .... its NOT full contact as it suggests :-?
more like semi or threequarters? fighting? again sorry f.c. people but true! lets have it right !!!! and thus should be given a differnt name also?
( another topic this one ) :-) :-p

Japanese Kickboxing
once over ( benny the jet great example ) fought with low kicks and the odd knee
now thats real Kickboxing.. and came from Japan, and was invented from after a few trips to Thailand and getting beat in Muay thai on each and nearly every occasion bar the 1 or was it 2 Really good japanese fighters to have success!
so the took out the clinch and elbow and Hence...KickBoxing ! good name IMO
and i think it should come full circle !

Sandy was quite accurate with his comments as above.

As for Anthobbs (troll) name and shame the promotor? Where I come from we dont kick people when they are down. The promotor is in Crown Court (nothing to do with K-1 trademark LOL) in relation to a murder case! I guess his business partner Mr Conman will be there to show his support? (I dont know why his partner did not disassociate himself from people like that but you know what they say "birds of a feather" and all that) Im sure you know who I am talking about.

I was invited to the pre trial court hearing by the family of the deceased but like I said I dont kick people when they are down. Im a lot better than that.

Dont give me all this bull where you "blame it on the sanctioning body" your posts go from absurdity to plain all out stupidity!!!
The final book rests with the promotor PERIOD!

No need to get insulting, Farhad.

I do think sanctioning bodies likely played a major role in the unauthorized use of "K-1" in promotions. I don't believe that anybody who did this was doing it out of spite for K-1. It was likely more out of ignorance. Perhaps they wrongly assumed that K-1 was not going to protect their trademark.

I have just had a look on the K1 website, and there is no mention of a 'UK Office' as stated in the original statement which started this thread.

Would an official company issue a statement of such a sensitive nature, via an internet forum???? I think not.

OK....Fair enough. I was caught. Hook,line and sinker! :)))

I had lunch yesterday with a K-1 champ :)

We all have a shared responsibility to respect the K-1 brand...

I think some fighters, promoters and orgs used the K-1 name out of ignorance, but many I feel used it to futher there own gain, thinking that Japan is a long way away and they would not protect it.

Ok, now that we ALL can see that the K-1 is a brand, can we start showing some respect by only using it if we have permission???

Ignorance is no longer a good enough excuse.

The K-1 name should be used only by fighters, promoters and sanctioning bodies that actually work with the K-1 itself.

I work with the 'Kudo MMA' brand in Japan, I was awarded a blackbelt by KIF Japan, I have paid in sweat and money, the name 'Kudo' as a martial art is protected, if anyone Tom, Dick or Harry started doing Kudo events or classes they would be stealing the name 'Kudo', period.

If the official K-1 office release a statement saying anyone can use the name K-1 then its different, until then lets show some respect!


Osu!

so if we are not calling it K1, or K-1 or K-1 rules, style etc, what are we to call it? I just ask as a new club coach who teaches students to fight in such a style and running my first ever show in march while looking to match my fighters in this style!!! please advise

I really find this interesting. I have just beening discussing this thread with a solicitor friend of mine, and they had a few interesting points.

They agreed that people should not be using the K-1 title AND LOGO, as this would then imply a commercial link.
As this has been an description of rules used for over 10yrs, it could be now classed as a generic term, just like the company hoover, and hoover the tool you use to clean carpets. I however could not copy the same hoover logo/written font and imply that I have attach myself with the hoover company.
I think we all agree with NOT using the logo. The term however is now generic and as no action has been taken to date, individual promoters could argue the case should it now come up. An important question is:
- Does K1 Corperation have global protection?

My friend suggested that as regular action is taken to moderate these pages, the key people at axkickboxing.com have probably had legal advice, and as such are probably doing the modification as part of a second-guessing/clean-break exercise, and therefore protecting themselves should such a situation come up.
And although this is a free-speaking forum, and the people typing their answers are responsible for their acions, the key-people at axkickboxing.com have an affliation.....so it is therefore probably easier for them to delete threads with K1 in the title, than risk being affliated should legal action be taken.

As K1-rules are essentially kickboxing over 3x3's, I would suggest just going back to calling it kickboxing, and then bouts can be matched:
O.R. - Oriental rules 3x3's
or
M.K.R. - Modified Kickboxing Rules 3x3's

the problem with calling it kickboxing is, the k in k1 stands for k-arate,k-ickboxing,k-ungfu all the k's as 1. meaning any martial art can enter following a set of rules which incorperates most of the weapons, of all stand up fighting systems, essentialy trying to determin the best stand up fighter of any dicipline. this is the point of k1, they wanted to show people karate v muaythai, kickboxing v kung fu etc. a better angle would be 'mma stand-up'!

"KICKBOXING really should be the name ( or / and with Japanese in front of the name )
then everyone can start using that Name / Rules again and it have a True'er meaning and name to be recognised !
as F.C. ( again wrong name imo as they only kick above waist and cant do this that and the other ( sorry guys, but true ) hardly a a Good Name for "FULL CONTACT"? fighting is it ? .... its NOT full contact as it suggests :-?
more like semi or threequarters? fighting? again sorry f.c. people but true! lets have it right !!!! and thus should be given a differnt name also?
( another topic this one ) :-) :-p"
Sandy do you really think about full contact rules in this way! Tis very rude, how many full contacts fights you had? Is mma more like "full contact" than thai cos you can hit the guy on the floor? Pure rubbish!

IMHO: Japanese Kicboxing, Oriental Kickboxing or MMA-Kickboxing...

In the early days of MMA people used the term 'Ultimate Fighting' but got scared off when the real UFC came to the UK. Im sure if the K-1 corp was doing events in the UK you would quickly see all the K-1 wanna-be's quickly drop off the radar?


Osu!

Why would the K-1 Corperation move over here? I hear they are in enough financial trouble with MMA/Dream etc.
They may come in as "The Real Deal" IF they got the "names", IF not, then it would be just the same as any other K-1 event in the UK.
(Notice the big IF's)

The selling point about K-1 Corperation is that they have all the biggest names, worldwide.
They throw money at the event, which may have precipitated their current financial standing..... I dont know.....

Now I understand.....

No further comment.....

Why not just use the term K_ONE or K-One or Kay-1 etc these are not copyrighted or used any where that I can find. And the public can still easily work it out.

No wonder our wonderful sport is still so far behind boxing.

which wonderful sport?
kick boxing, low kick rules kickboxing, semi contact kick boxing, oriental rules kickboxing, full contact kickboxing, light continuous kickboxing,japanese kickboxing, mma kickboxing??' thai boxing, european rules thai boxing, muay thai, k1, ultimate fighting?

at least with boxing.. people know what the feks going on!