Hi guys,

I have been doing Muay Thai for about three months now, in this time I have seen massive improvements in fitness and technique. I train 2 times a week minimum try to make it 3 plus a run or circuit once a week with a little bit of strength training too.

I know there are a million people out there who have asked this but I wondered if there were any new insights. What can you guys recommend for me to get better?

At home I have room big enough to shadow box in with a a basic bench (bench/incline bench press, leg raises, flys) I also have a bike and a beach near hills to run along.

I am 80Kg+ which I need to drop a bit at 23 years old and 5' 11". I still have some pies hanging around my gut from my office job!

If somebody can offer me some training regime? or just any advice on what I should be eating and doing week to week I would appreciate it. I feel I have a fair idea of what I am doing but I am a complete novice so want to see what everyone else recommends.

cheers.

Just a quick tip.....I used to weigh 99Kg when I started traning (12 years ago).. I ate a little better and cut down what I snacked on but the real difference was water consumption.
I started drinking at least 2 litres per day every day and kept that up for years.

I now weigh around 83kg and don't get to train much at all but the weight has kept off, the only time I feel like I am putting a bit back on is when I don't drink enough water.

Just a thought, but it worked for me.

FB'Slim

I would say if you are interested in MuayThai watch MuayThai, understand it, get it, get the game... watch Thais fight and know who won before announced.

If you like Western MuayThai then watch the best Westeners and the same etc

When kids learn a language they know it and hear it loads and loads before they "study" it.

A class or training will be way way more benefitial the more you get it and we all get it to a degree and don't to a degree - get it deeper, feel it and copy what you like and what works for you...

Thats my opinion and experience...

Its more than kicking and punching

That's appreciated guys.

I do need to take more water in to be honest I pretty much sit on my ass and drink tea or coffee all day due to work. So I will work on that.

Mark, that's good advice. I am pretty obssessed with studying the art and everything that it entails. Watching the best guys at my club and online and trying to emulate them and seeing what is working.

Do you guys have any particular fitness training you do to supplement the MT? I know that I will not just wake up one day and be great at it, I am struggling however after a beastly warm up sometimes I am completely dead and my technique goes to pot.

Take the warm up easier!??
:-)

FB'Slim - what do you think the benefits of increased water intake are? i.e. filling you up and stop you from snacking OR reducing your water retention?
cheers

If you are interested in some extra motivation on water intake you may like to read "You're Not Sick, You're Thirsty" or "The Body's Many Cries for Water". F. Batmanghelidj, MD

Examples include with how important water is to vital (and almost all) body functions... if dehydrated it is very common for the body to scavenge water from less vital functions for more important functions - one big example that may be some intensive to some - if dehydrated it is very common for the colon to squeeze water out of your fecal matter before defecating (before body lets you shit it squeezes water out of your shit) to recycle in the body.

It is also my understanding that 2% dehydration causes about a 10% decrease in performance with elite athletes.

Some may be interested and for some it is motivation to learn more about how it works and affects of choices.

Looks like I am in the AX Volvic challenge then ;) I have actually upped my water intake over the last week and dropped my caffeine consumption and psychosomatic or not...I feel better.

I would ease up in the warm up but I train with one guy regularly (started at the same time) and...well I just can't let him do more than me!

haha!

Thanks for the advice...keep it coming!

Batmanghelidj has been discredited. See http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/batman.html and http://www.snopes.com/medical/myths/8glasses.asp. He discovered his miracle "cure" when he was on death row in Iran (for being on the wrong side in the Islamic revolution) and managed to survive because as a doctor he could treat other prisoners. Funny how the threat of execution can make you discover previously unknown properties in everyday items, and the only "medicine" he had access to was water.

He didn't practice medicine after being released from prison in 1982 and he didn't publish any research apart from a couple of short papers that were just rehashing what he did in prison and can be summarized as "I think...". If he had any evidence that water can cure ulcers (or anything else for that matter) he took it to the grave with him. Like most of his sort, what he was really promoting was placebo. It doesn't actually do anything but it makes you feel better because you think it will. At least the "water cure" won't do you any harm.

Drinking enough water is good for you, but watch out for quacks trying to read more into it than is actually there. It's also worth remembering that food contains water and that the small dehydration effect from tea and coffee is vastly outweighed by the water intake that you get from them. The only drinks that do cause dehydration are alcoholic ones. The idea that you must drink 8 glasses a day and that it must be specifically water is an urban myth.

quackwatch, in my research (many times over the years cause they attack anyone that questions the status quo/system) is biased in my opinion and experience.

coffee is no a dehydrator? hmmm interesting belief

The coffee/dehydration theory has been tested pretty thoroughly and it is verifiable fact that it is untrue. Just ask Ann Grandjean for example. The small diuretic effect of caffeine is outweighed by the much larger amount of water you get in these drinks. You could try it yourself if you wanted.

Science works by constantly questioning and challenging ideas. What the alternative health industry calls the "status quo" is not fixed and is subject to change. For a long time the most plausible cause of disease was the miasma theory that it was spread by bad smells until it was shown that were other causes such as bacteria. People (including Batmanghelidj) used to think that peptic ulcers were caused by stress until someone proved that they were caused by bacteria by drinking a beaker-full of helicobacter pylori and becoming very ill. Unfortunately some people continue to stick to old ideas long after they've been disproven, especially if they make money out of them by selling books or miracle "cures". Claiming victimisation from the "scientific establishment" or even threatening to sue for libel when someone questions them is quite common.

Having something to eat or drink is known to temporarily reduce the pain from stomach ulcers. Batmanghelidj decided that this was because of some previously unknown quality of water but I can't find a lot of evidence that he tried anything else to see if it had the same effect. I read through some of his articles at watercure.com last night and some of them show a shockingly bad understanding of how the digestive system works. Essentially he built an entire career out of giving a man with a stomach ulcer a glass of water and repeating his "when I was in prison..." anecdote when questioned about it.

My advice for a beginner? Question everything, especially if it challenges received wisdom. They're either on to something or at best misinformed. Anyone can make claims but being able to prove them is a lot harder.

when I drink coffee a couple/three cups of coffee I get the same feelings, often worse, than when I drink water... its a feeling I associate with dehydration... when I get my water in (stomach only so big and can't take as much water after/with coffee) I feel very very different.

I guess it is possible that this is more related to caffeine in a way I am not aware of having that big and affect.

I also experience this with any other drinks besides maybe sports drinks.

I agree with loads of the post above...

Check it out - drink only water for 2 weeks... then replace some of the water with coffee and see how YOU FEEL. YoUr experience..

The experience goes far beyond scientific theory in my opinion.

Yes test and see, consider and study but use experience as your guide.

I challenge anyone who is truly curious to only drink water (and get enough in hopefully for two weeks and then start experimenting with coffee and other drinks and with training (pushing the body therefore heightening the awareness of affects) see how you feel and perform.

Don't take my word or anyone elses - go see for yourself

A couple short bits from experience...

My health fell a part to the degree that I could only shadow box light for a few rounds and MAYBE a couple light rounds on bag and then I would have to take a day or two off (signifying the little I did was too much)... I eventually found out I had denervative atrophy (muscles withering away like when you wear a cast).

No doctors helped and after a bunch of specialists couldn't help I started studying exercise and nutrition etc...

I started working with a exercise coach who looked at things from multiple angles.

By that time my health had built up a lot but I was yet at the point where I could push myself without crashing... slowly I was building up and could do a little more and a little more. I started being able to do a fair bit but if I pushed in training I crashed.

I had a strength and conditioning program (as well as lifestyle program including food and water etc) and I kept crashing and not quite being able to finish it.

I finally figured out more closely the macronutrient ratios (protein, fat, carbs) and fine tuned my eating to that and when I did that I started being able to complete my strength program and train harder.

With my body being so low and trying to train (pushing the limits) - I believe I had very solid feed back to what was working - more so than if I wasn't crashing (laying on floor in dark, cool, quiet room, not being able to handle noise, move or eat..difficulty speaking even in many cases.

I think the results of my choices because of my situation were easier to see than someone who wasn't crashing and or wasn't training...

If I missed my water intake, yet got my food and sleep in, I couldn't finish my workout... same with any three of those (food, water, sleep). Miss out on one or more and I could not complete my workout and couldn't push training.

I also seen specifically some cool stuff with water.

One example

A friend, triathlete - had a type of arthritis. I forget the name and its not a common type.. she would have to go in and get blood work done frequently (I see here here and there and can ask)... anyway she drank loads of tea, holding the belief that she was getting enough water from that. I suggested just drinking water to replace the tea (she was drinking multiple cups a day).

I saw her a few days later and she said she was feeling so much better and not long after she went to doc for blood work and it showed she was fine.

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I go by (as a starting point, not as this is exactly what you need) 0.5oz water per lbs of body weight... this is a starting basic number (training and climate etc may mean more and everyone is different - but a start point...

so for 200lbs person that is 100oz

Its hard to get that much fluid on top of that amount of water...

If anyone is curious enough to experience fr themselves how they feel doing this and then comparing it with substituting coffee for some I would be willing to bet you WILL feel a difference.

say you did 100oz (if 200lbs) for two weeks...
then go to 75oz of water and 25oz of coffee and see how your feeling, sense of well being, energy levels and performance is.

YOU do the test.... go out of the intellectual and into the experiential.

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"Dr. Stephen Barrett of Quackwatch Exposed In Court Cases
At trial, under a heated cross-examination by Negrete, Barrett conceded that he was not a Medical Board Certified psychiatrist because he had failed the certification exam.

This was a major revelation since Barrett had provided supposed expert testimony as a psychiatrist and had testified in numerous court cases. Barrett also had said that he was a legal expert even though he had no formal legal training.

The most damning testimony before the jury, under the intense cross-examination by Negrete, was that Barrett had filed similar defamation lawsuits against almost 40 people across the country within the past few years and had not won one single one at trial.

During the course of his examination, Barrett also had to concede his ties to the AMA, Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and Food & Drug Administration (FDA).

P R E S S R E L E A S E

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Date: October 13, 2005

Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

Court Case: Stephen Barrett, M.D. vs. Tedd Koren, D.C. and Koren Publications, Inc.
Court of Common Pleas of Lehigh County for the State of Pennsylvania
Court Case No.: 2002-C-1837
Contact: Carlos F. Negrete
LAW OFFICES OF CARLOS F. NEGRETE
San Juan Capistrano, CA 92675
Phone: 949.493.8115
Fax: 949.493.8170
email: mediarelations@healthfreedomlaw.com
mediarelations@negretelaw.com
URL: www.healthfreedomlaw.com
www.negretelaw.com"

--------------------------------------------------

Tedd Koren's behaviour towards Stephen Barrett falls a long way short of what I would expect from a professionally qualified adult, including repeating allegations without bothering to check if they are true or not and the inflammatory press release quoted above (I did a bit of checking to see what was behind it. The disposition in particular was pretty long-winded but somewhat illuminating), and I thank you for bringing him to my attention so I know of someone else to avoid. In some quarters there does seem to be a habit of trying to smear the person rather than challenge their ideas. I'm reminded of the time Gillian McKeith responded to a professor of nutrition who wanted to debate her work by threatening to sue him for libel.

However Koren's activities are not relevant to the current discussion which is Batmanghelidj's "water cure". My observations above have nothing to do with Quackwatch and are based on reading Batmanghelidj's own publications. I came to a different conclusion to him, but I'm not on death row and facing the gallows if I come up with something that doesn't work. The "cure" is a mixture of placebo and regression to the mean (in other words it would have got better even without the water). The tricky bit is proving that something has an effect over and above placebo.

Another interesting phenomenon is the opposite to placebo and which is called the nocebo effect, where something has negative effects such as lack of efficacy because you've convinced yourself that it won't work. You might do this knowingly (such as expecting an injection to hurt more than it does) or subconsciously (such as someone who might take the writings of a particular person seriously without considering other points of view that don't agree with theirs, and who then applies that thinking to every situation without even being aware that they're doing it). This is why questioning everything is a good idea, especially if it's something you agree with or if they have strong opinions one way or another. Scientists are always arguing with each other. There's even a formal way to do it: the peer review.

Nocebo and placebo explain a lot of anecdotal evidence. A proper trial takes steps to exclude them. One way is trying things out on more than one person to see if the results are reproducible. Another is double blinding, which is when neither the researcher nor the subject know who is in the experimental group and who is the control until after the study has concluded. Individual anecdotes are usually not regarded very highly because they can be biased by the person's beliefs and it can be difficult to show that something happening is directly because of one particular thing that they have done. Most conditions improve by themselves. Proving that a condition improved because you've done something is very difficult. One data point, or person, doesn't mean a lot. Having lots of data points does.

I wrote something out and it didn't send.

I think you make some great points.

My experience with water is it does make a huge difference regardless of scientific opinion, debate and theory.

My personal experience and witnessing people following some water intake guidelines - amazing things do happen.

Do the test on yourself for any truly interested in reality beyond discussion, opinion and scientific theories.