I have torn my neck muscle on my right side and my right shoulder has torn trying to hold it all together. My motorbike got hit by a truck side on so its a twisting injury with a slide underneath the bike down the road added to it. I am going to see the physio 5 days a week and doing the whole heat for 20mins ice for 10mins 4 times a day and getting extra magnesium, iron, calcium and sodium to try and give it a chance to heal but it doesnt seem to be improving much. I would appreciate any ideas for things to try. Its swollen all the time and you can literally see the rip in the muscle in my neck, I have stopped using the neck brace because it seems to make it worse and its been 3 weeks and i still cant use my right arm to even pick up a drink. I'de go see a witchdoctor if I could find one :) so any ideas would be great. Also if anyone has any idea how long this sort of thing takes to heal, my doctor and physio wont even give a rough time frame because its an insurance thing.

If you really mean ANY ideas and if this is real I would take a look at some family stuff. The throat/neck/shoulder areas are associated with communication and the right side of the body could be to do with males (maybe father for example) for with will as another possibility.

If this isn't possible in your belief system then you may choose to ignore. But if you look, even though it is car accident. I wouldn't be surprised if you found some connections.

The Chinese and Indians have systems of assessing the body etc that are associated with mental, emotional stuff. The Indians use chakras and the throat chakra is associated with some of the things I have mentioned above as well as the neck, shoulders etc as well as pharyneal plexus, thyroid/parathyroid plexus.. metabolism and calcium regulation.

Some people believe that an external accute trauma, can be related to issues in the related area of injury.

Many will believe this is wacko and so be it. Its interesting when you start connecting dots that things seem to add up no matter what the 'cause' though.

I fell from a rope swing and injured my lumbar spine-that and other things relate to some issues I have on more of an emotional level.

My bud has shoulder (right) and neck issues. His gf ajusts his back all the time. He had poor communication with his father and resently called him and made a point and an effort to sort things out some. Shortly after his shoulder was doing better and his gf commented that his cervical spine was straighter.

It may sound really out there especially for religious types...

The more I map out my body the more links I see and the more I look at other peoples the more I see it also.

Its pretty amazing to watch someone do an assessment of someones body and then tell thier personal issues even with some pretty interesting detail.

You mentioned witch doc and I know you like to get shit going but I don't really care :) In case you are serious here is an 'out there' idea, thought process for you or anyone interested. If not thats your choice also :)

By the way that area is an area I have some issues in also.

open for attack-fire away :)

Hi Mark.
Not going to deny Im a shit stirrer but this ones for real, I can laugh about most stuff but not nearly breaking my neck and I seriously thought they would have to hose me off the truck wheels. So no piss taking this time. So the idea behind what your saying is that the injury was more likely to occur because of communication problems or it wont heal propperly because of communication problems? My Dad is a physics teacher and hes not great with people, I was out cold for 2 days and when i woke up he had worked out how hard I had been hit and the amout of pressure my head had taken and how far I would have slid, and then told me in detail how long it would take to die if the truck had of stopped on top of me. Please dont laugh at that, because it can be really hard to live with but its just the way he is and he cant help it. Mabey goes part way in explaining me though :) And the witch doctor thing wasnt a joke, Im a total sucker for anything alternate. I went to africa earlier this year and got to meet a witch doctor, he gave me some medicine (that was probably bat shit or something else revolting) and I put it in my mouth without a question, yet I make my Doc give me a lecture on the what, why and how of every western med. So thanks for your answer Mark and if you have any more info on how the communication/neck thing works I would like to hear it so I can give it a try.
Also do you know anything else about the metabolism/ neck thing. Im close to bedbound at the moment so I am not exercising and Im eating constantly but im loosing weight really fast, the doc wants to put me on a liquid food to keep the weight on and cant work out why im loosing weight because I dont seem to be dropping muscle.

Loosing weight-my guesses would be muscle or water. I don't know and I wish you the best.

With Chakras etc the issue is often very clear but many times its a little harder to figure out.

Like your Dad is just one possibility. Communication could be 'talking and your relationship with him' or it could be something more to do with your expression and creativity kinda.

If you are seriously interested in a great article that explains how the body is a map or mirror for us please email me...

I'm going of very little info and I am just throwing out a possibility.

I work with one woman who has diagrams etc on ALL the bones, organs etc etc connected to what areas. Pretty wild.

From what you said about your dad though suggests to me that he may not be someone who communicates emotion etc with you. Technical people like that work much from the brain and not much from the heart.

Its all YOUR perception as well. The reality of a situation is not as important for healing as what the individual percieved it like.

Might go back to a part of you (maybe just a part) not feeling loved for example. Or maybe better-a ppart of you felt if you told your dad something he would judge you, or punish you etc and you learned not to share thoughts/feelings/ideas that someone might think are studpid or wrong or etc etc

Thats just a guess (I'm looking into some of my own stuff right now and I think I just touched on something-thank you)

"Thats just the way he is and he can't help it"
That may be very true and by no means do I mean to judge. What I am suggesting is that its possible to percieve things more painfully as a child than when we look at them as an adult.

That statement is logical and quite likely very 'true'. But that is your adults self talking. Your child self (just hypothetical here!!) may have wanted to hear some feeling and compassion. Not so much details about your healing more some feeling about your suffering.

This could be your inner child now or inner child from your past.


Again these are just possibilities and of course in my opinion and experience how humans work.

Now before people say thats not true I think one more thing can be considered.

I believe that the deepest form of pain is numbness. I first heard this from a teacher of mine called John and later from a great article on forgiveness by JP (who refferances John).

I have experienced it to be true in my life and with those around me often enough to credit it.

He refferances people having no conscious awareness of being raped for example. Resently I sent a friend and a former client to John. He told her she had been raped. She denied it as she had no recollection of it. That week after the chat memories of it started to return and many things started fitting into place (we're gonna do some EFT on it too).

A soldier shot sometimes doesn't know he is shot.

So sometimes, IMO&E we don't know our pains and it takes louder and louder msg's for us to start to look. I believe the body is a way to look deeper and old systems like the Chinese and Indians systems have great value in self exploration and healing!!!!


Again I am not saying this is your stuff!! I don't know. I am suggesting possibilities and explaining a little of how it works in my limited understanding.

All the best with the healing-believe you will heal and tell yourself you will heal and you will do much much better than if you believe you won't! :)

There is a great article on a guy that changed his beliefs with cancer and rid himself of it!! Same author of the body being a mirror article actually.

Thanks for not laughing mark. My father was diagnosed as having asbergers syndrome about 10yrs ago. Its basicly high functioning autism, so he is great with numbers and patterns and stuff like that but horrific with the people side of stuff. Both my brothers have it too and my mother and sister constantly border on nervous breakdowns from being highly strung. So healthy functioning is no specialty of mine, and goes a fair way in explaining why i ended up the shit-stirring person with no impulse control that i am. To be embarrassingly honest I took up MT so that I had an outlet for venting when it all got too heavy so your suggestions about communication hit a little close to home. RE. the whole inner child thing, it sounds stupid but I raised my parents and my siblings until i hit a rebelious patch and ended up in a school for behavioral problems and even then I went home for weekends and cooked a weeks worth of meals for them and did their washing and shoping. So my inner child is probably a resentful little shit. My god im confessing like Im on Oprah. On the brighter side I have an incredibly healthy sense of my own resiliance, I just get impatient when things fail on me or take longer than i would hope. All the best with your studies and thanks for the information. Could you please let me know the name of the body/mirror article and where i can find it.
PS. Im the female, I work as a psychologist for corrective services (blind leading the blind LOL), and I have only fought 6 times and Im only average as a fighter. My mate who posts under marlboro too is a male, he is a clearance diver in the Navy and is prone to nasty outbursts and is a worse shit-stirer than me, he has fought 13 times and he is a pretty good fighter but too far up himself.But we are friends from school and hes not a bad guy even though he manages to offend alot of people, you had to be pretty stuffed to make it into our school:)

A friend from thailand posted me some herb that they stick in their ear when you get hit hard in the side of the face and it stops the ringing in your ear and makes the swelling go down really quickly, it looks like Basil but its not. Does anyone know what it is because it works like a charm?

marlboro-I think we all know everyone has issues :) well like you said about taking up MuayThai... basically all fighters got some issues going on :) Its cool that you can see yours. Remember the deepest form of pain is numbness. Most don't know. Basically fighters generally have something to prove. I first heard this from a former boxer and kickboxer and boxing trainer who is a healer that gets results.

psychology-sadly our system of learning is not based on experience. But I think you can change that for you if you want and the fact you are looking and talking suggests you are willing to change and grow.

I am a strong believer in walking the talk. Learning from a book and experiencing what you have 'learned' are way different. IMO

I'd invite you to consider that concept anyway :)

http://www.ppssuccess.com/Portals/0/docs/YourBodyIsAMirror.pdf
http://www.ppssuccess.com/Resources/tabid/78/Default.aspx

The same site there. The first one is straight to the article mentioned. The second is a list of articles. In terms of healing and growth I'm sure you'll get an idea from the titles but I'd also invite you to look at my friend JPs on there. Very good.

http://www.holisticdiscoveries.com/

This site I haven't read alot on yet but you may or may not find useful. One of the authors, John McMullen, recommended it to me. I have listened to a handful of audios of his and also am a client of his for one on one sessions. This is the guy that told my friend on, I think thier first, phone session that she had been raped and she had no conscious awareness of it (started to come back that week after). JP, mentioned above has worked with him loads and refferances him in. Johns site is
www.journeysofwisdom.com (aren't really any articles there though but great!!! audios and about what he does).

You might be interested in the EFT thread iif you are into helping people heal and interested in healing yourself. Its just another tool in the tool box (if you only have a hammer everything looks like a nail).

Lasst night I met a gal at a dinner. Her daughter has autism and her ex left when she was diagnosed. She was willing to give it a shot so we went down stairs and sat in the hall..

Did EFT on her anger for him abandoning her daughter. Highest it got was an 8 and we got it to a 0(how intense the emotion was). Then sadness for her daughters loss to a 0. Then some deeper stuff started to peak its head and she realized she had anger for him leaving her. Got that to a zero etc I think I am missing one. The cool thing is twice she had tears and at the end (not even 45min) she was saying she is glad he's not there and had a total mentality shift over the whole situation. She commented on how much straighter she was sitting or standing. The cool thing is she now has that tool.

You can learn it very easily and very fast and then you can get better and better with it through using and practice.

emofree.com is a great site for it and you can download a free manual that teaches you how to do it too!

(NLP and EFT are suppose to work amazingly together but I know almost nothing of NLP yet lol)

In the physical realm, check out the healing thread. I would consider laser as a good possibility.

http://byronkatie.com/

byron katies "The Work" is quite powerful and was origionally introduced to me by my Rolpher. I'd used it a bit etc but resently I have put it to more use. I am preparing for a 3 day workshop right now that involves alot of intraspection and self healing and one of the methods they discuss is Byron Katies "The Work". I have never been to this site but have been to another of hers along time ago and have watched videos of her working with clients. I resently used the work (2 days ago) on myself and yesterday with a student, both with great results. I am a fan of hers but I have never been to the recommended site :)

There are many ways of healing but I really think the mental/emotional etc etc is HUGE in healing the physical.

I'll give you an example that I believe has to incorperate more than the physical.

Danny Way broken back (or was it neck) surfing at 18yrs. Could barely walk into Pauls (Paul Chek) office. 4 months later Danny competed pro (and won). Knowing a little of Pauls methods and the speed of his rehab I don't believe for a second that only the physical was addressed! (Danny Way is in the guiness book for skate boarding stuff).

The blind always lead the blind these days cause our conditioning and programming says you go to school and get a degree and that means you are 'certified'. Personally results talk and I believe those who walk the talk will get results more often than those who have studied from a book and a prof who studied from a book and a prof who studied from a book and a prof etc etc etc

All the best!!!! Maybe more than you wanted but wtf? :)

I was talking to an Axer a couple days ago on MSN. He was mentioning some areas of stress he is dealing with. When I asked ..sure enough, he had physical manifestations that fit into the mental/emotional areas he was mentioning. He was pretty shocked I asked about that area of his body.

I see it over and over and over.

I really believe that looking deep and deeper issues will effect healing on the physical level. Be it a possible cause or not.

Thanks Mark I have printed the articles and they look good. Lots of reading to do now. Im going to call you Dr Mark :) I know what you mean about people getting a certificate and thinking they know it all, some of my co-workers are so full of shit, I really dont believe you can help people psychologically if you havent had "well rounded" life experiences yourself. I mean how can you help a self mutilater if you cant grasp the level of emotion that would bring a person to feel the need to do it to themselves. It sounds cocky as shit, but Im really good at my job and I believe its because in most of the stuff i come across at work Im not a total outsider looking in. I am not at MT trainer but I do a little sparring with some of the juvenile inmates and it seems to work really well, they learn over time that you have to slow down and control the situation not just let your emotions blind you. It seems to calm some of the kids with rage problems. We also play pool and darts for the same reason, you wont be able to do it unless you are calm and focused. So I think it works both ways a bit, you make the body focus and the mind calms, and you work with the mind and the body follows. Thanks for the info mark, its food for thought for me and if it works for me it may be something to try incorperate at work. Im always interested in new theories even if it comes from a witch doctor like you :) just dont ask me to eat bat shit to fix my neck that would be stretching my open mindedness on the issue.LOL.

marlboro-you can call me a witch doctor but please not a doctor (witch docs kill less people lol)

body and mind-I think thats a great point!! Tension in the body keeps the mind racing (amoung other things) too I think.

I'd love to have some degrees etc. I have nothing against them but I htink its a huge mistake to think the degree means the person can be effective.

I think there is alot of truth in being 'well-rounded' and being able to help. I think it is also true that you can best help people in the areas you have helped yourself and you can draw the people into your line of help that you can help best.

I think anyone in a field of healing should be constantly healing and growing themselves.

The fact that you are willing to look into your self tells me that you are better at working with others than many :) and I believe the more we are successful in developing and changing ourselves to really be who we want to be then the more we can do that with others.

Byron Katie is an example. If memory serves her story is of years of deep dark depression. She was actually bed ridden for years. Then she kind of had a realization that it was her thoughts about what people did/she did/happen etc that was so painful, not so much what happened LOL anyway she does amazing healing today. by the way thework.com has more stuff -some video example of how she works.

I'm sharing some of my experiences, not trying to suggest that any of these directions are right for you but putting possibilities out there for you to choose from if you think thats right for you.

Anyway, enjoy the journey and I'm interested in knowing how it goes.

Of course I'm big on the physical too and I think you should do all you can in that area for your neck :)

All the best

The body is a mirror article is really good. Apparently the throat chakra is associated with communication and will or desire. The dominant side relates to manifesting what you want or will, and the other side relates to manifesting what makes you happy. I called my uncle who is living in India in the middle of the night and made him wake his mother-in-law to explain chakras abit more. Im not sure if i got it right (her accent is really heavy) but she explained it as when I came off the bike there is no reason why both sides of the neck should not be injured except the aspects associated with the left side of my body are more in balance and the right side was weak leaving the muscles on the right side more vulnerable. Basicly in terms of psychological aspects of the chakra my ability to be happy is strong but my focus on direction is weak (a case of chakra ADD LOL), It is also associated with communication so I am able to communicate what makes me happy but not what I want from others. Because my right ear is still not working propperly yet she suggested that that means I only want to hear what makes me happy at the moment, I do not want to take direction from others or follow what other people expect of me. The old cow, my right ear seriously blocked and I couldnt hear out of it at all until I got off the phone, she called me a Mule too. But she suggested just following my intuition and indulging my whims to try to balance out what makes me happy with where I am going to go from here. Its seriously hard to do, obligation and doing the "right thing" get pretty ingrained. I ate steak for breakfast and rice pudding made with youghurt, and I begged and pleaded until my thai trainer who is staying with me agreed to do a couple of rounds with me, and I am feeling better today than I have for weeks, my neck rotation has improved and I was able to use my right arm for most of the rounds, and the physio was about to bawl me out for training and then told me that it seems to have improved more in the last week than it had in the weeks leading to Xmas. Its really good stuff, this chakra business and the whole listening to/indulging yourself instead of doing what everyone else says you need to do. She also said it is important to tell yourself that you are strong, not that you are broken (injured) because your body will not heal until your mind tells it it is strong enough and capable of fixing itself.
PS I hope your not saying haveing a degree makes me more of a dickhead than I would be without it :) A psychology/ sociology/ philosophy tripple dickhead LOL
Yet still on the net asking for advice from a witch doctor :)

marlboro-I'll be honest in that like many posts before its seems a little too much (though thats likely a reflection of my thouhgt :/)

Hoever I don't really care if that possibility is there and choose to take our word for it. (don;t really care too much what everone thinks-not 100% but getting there lol)

I like the way she explained it. What I know of the chakras keeps expanding and I feel I know very little. That said I have studied them to small degree and experienced aspects of them (some ways I won't get into here lol)

I think its really cool that you are able to look at a possible system that is outside the typical for your culture and formal education etc especially one that brings about looking internally, which takes courage. Congrats on you, regardlkess what you eventually deside to be true for you.

I'll share a little of my experience that suggests its true for me (besides adding up different aspects and seeing conections in self and others etc)


The Chinese have systems also that relate oragns with emotions with muscles etc etc

So I go to a QiGong healer and he points at me sending Qi through my body. He correctly told me many physical issues I have and also told me I have anger issues. I thouhgt he was bang on on much except the anger. Its something that I learned to controle and basicaly not get angry much over the years.

Something in fact I was proud of as was my Mum etc

So I thouhgt he might be not quite so bang on on that.

Along the way I was listening to audios from John Mcmullin in which he was talking about the deepest form of pain being numbness (JP refferances it in a great article on forgiveness that can be found on paulchek.com and ppssuccess.com).

JP mentions how people with abuse in thier past can often be unaware of it. It has been too painful to experience in memory and they shut it off (its interesting when you look at how much of ones childhood one can remember-suggestive of painful experiences). Also of a soldier that has been shot not knowing it.

Personally I sent a friend and former client to John. He told her (I think thier first session) that she had been sexually abused and she had no recollection of it what so ever! That week it started to come back. Turns out she was living in the same house as the person still so getting out was a big improvement for her health.

So back to my experience of numbness (besides remembering little of my childhood).

I think it was my second session with John he also told me I had anger but Johns deffinition of anger was something I had never heard before. It went something like this. "Our inner childs reaction to fear or shame" (pretty sure it was inner child.. Anyway basically anyway we deal with fear or shame...

Maybe jumping abit here..

He told me he thought I had (as I told him I use to get angree but didn't really any more) lashed out (verbally) at someone I loved. In such a way that I hurt them and felt very ashamed and guilty. Basically I told myself I wouldn't do it again so instead of extreanally reacting with 'anger' to fear or shame a numbed it so as not to feel it from my reaction..

So IF his deffinition is true (it is for me) then my anger (reaction) was numbed and pushed deep and I was unaware.

And interesting note is after a healing process that session a block was released and I felt Qi flowing through my whole being like I never had before. Ever since if I pay attention I can feel Qi in me to a larger or lessor degree. If I get energy work done I can mostly feel what is going on (filling, emptying, moving etc the Qi).

So for me it has become very real.

In nature and large groups I can feel it stronger..

This is experience that far surpasses anything I have read on them Qi etc

but acoording to my issues, physical body etc etc i have/had issues with the related chakra.

Your experience adds up also and your experience with the healing is, at least, suggestive of the powerful effects of balancing the body (in all aspects). -if you're not having a go ;)

out of curiosity how is your vision?

Happy New Year!!! The world is changing!

I guess some of my other posts make it seem like truth is a bit out of my relm but the sports science board is not where I go to test how credulous other people are . Its where I go to test how credulous I am :) The chakra business seems to have worked really well for me, not fixed completely but starting to heal well. The logical part of my brain tells me it could just be that time has passed and its a normal healing time or the fact I like the theory means I look for proof it may be working. Its worth mentioning that the woman I spoke to about chakras knows me so may have included her own insights into my personality that are not strictly chakra based :) Im sorry that you doubt what I am saying but I would like to thank you for pointing me in a directing that I feel has helped me alot. Personally I think it is working well because I can see logical sense in it, and comming from the family that I have and with 7 yrs in uni the being able to make sense of something and break it down, rather than just trust or having faith is important. I understand what you mean about things feeling stronger and making more sense when you are in nature, mabey just getting outside and feeling the sun and the grass has more benefits than any particular theory, but it also makes you a bit more aware of where you fall in the scheme of things. Physical activity makes you consciously aware of your body and what it is saying to you, rather than the numbness of just existing in your body as a means of transporting your thoughts. QiGong sounds like it has helped you alot, the sensation you describe sounds alot like what some people get when they find a therapist that clicks with them, its like finally having an explanation for why things are the way they are and a sense of connectedness because your problem is fixable and someone else understands it and can help you fix it. It can also be unerving and disturbing when someone can look inside you and know what you dont know about yourself or dont want to know. I called one of the psychiatrists from work to find out more about what causes your ears to suddenly stop working and he said it is incredibly common in different forms.The medical explanation is that when someone is hearing something that their mind cant cope with or will disturb their world view the nerves stop working in the ear to protect the mental situation until the person can cope with what is being said, similarly when someone sees something horrific it is not uncommon for them to suddenly be unable to see, the nerves are still alive they just temporarily wont work until the person feels less threatened by what they may see. Some people become catatonic as a defense mechanism, this is less often related to trauma and more often occurs in highly motivated individuals who are putting themselves under pressure to succeed and their body forcibly shuts down to prevent damage to the mind. It happened to one of the guys in my psychology class, he was desperate for straight high distinctions and was struggeling with advanced statistics,his fear of a lower mark was so great he developed catatonic rigidity. He slowly started to get better when he was un-enrolled in the class and enrolled in a different subject he was more comfortable with. The minds ability to protect itself and the effects it can show on the physical body sound like science fiction but are not uncommon and are well documented. I love all of that kind of freaky medical stuff so I suppose it makes me more open to the idea that your mindset can have huge impact upon your body, and more likely to see results from something that supports that view.
Happy New Year Mark, I hope you continue to enjoy your studies. Thank-you for telling me about the chakras even if you doubt it could be as effective as it was :P
PS im not sure why you ask about my eyes but the answer is the are probably the best working part of my body. I have 35/20 vision so I can see from 35 metres what most people see from 20 and my night vision is almost the same as most peoples day vision.

-hey my dought is my issue ;)

Some great insights and info here that you are sharing.

My belief is someone with formal education who is still able to see value in things that that eductaion might shun has the best of both worlds :)

Eyes and ears shutting off. Some really cool stuff. One thing I'd like to point out is this applies to everything I think.

For example-a belief system that doesn't support an issue. Then no matter how much evidence thier is for the issue, one can't see it.. be it stuff like 9/11 or religious beliefs and very very much so beliefs about self.

Its interesting as I am trying to sort out some issue with sight for myself.

I don't remmeber much of my childhood (a sign that I blocked it) and for many many years I never knew if I had dreamed that night or not. Remember dreaming maybe once every three months.

I think that I saw, or 'saw'-maybe experienced, something (I think more likely thingS) that was too painful to process and shut down my visual system.

I could never look at a glass, close my eyes, and see it. I couldn't visualize.

I also have astigmatism.

I suspect all the vision/sight issues may be related and I suspect that if I can dig to the core of the issue and heal that I will likely get improvement in other areas.

The work I have been doing has helped though. I remember dreaming most nights now and am remembering larger and larger portions of the dreams etc. I can kind of see stuff much of the time-like looking at a pic, closing eyes and trying to see.

I don't question the ability for this stuff to work that well or that approaching healing on energy levels, emotional levels, mental levels, and physical levels to way blow away approaching from one point of view.

My problem (it is mine ;) was not trusting you. That is a reflection on me really.

marlboro-you are welcome but please thank yourself for hearing it and looking at it. I'm very happy to hear you are getting great results. Its cool that you can be open to something that likely goes against most of your education. The cool thing is I think they can blend very powerfully together :)

The EFT thing-just a reminder. Its amazing in many situations. I strongly suggest getting thier news letter.

If you are interested the book I was origionally recomended to read (nice sentance lol)

"The Book of Chakra Healing"
-Liz Simpson

As you seem interested and your area is psyc.. In case you are interested

"The Science Of Medical Intuition"
-Caroline Myss & Norm Shealy, M.D.

Comes highly recommended but I have not yet gotten.

I'm off to a work shop in Cali and I am hoping I will be able to get in for a couple hrs with my friend JP, whom I've mentioned above. We'll see where it goes but my thinking right now is all the vision, memory stuff.

My questions on your vision-just a guess inthe wrong direction.. probably on my mind cause of mine maybe :).. I think as you had talked about will etc.. supposedly an imbalance of ones will etc can cause eye issues..

Keep me posted and feel free to email as I am interested in how it all progresses and your experiences...

I tell ya its cool to see people do chakra balancing...

------
Supposedly we can not see something that is not in our belief system.

The natives supposedly couldn't see Columbus' ships. They could see displacement in the water but not the ships as they had no conscious awareness that a ship could exist.

IF that is true....wow

I mean the brain takes in millions of bits of info a min and we only process 20,000 (going from memory). That means most of life or whatever is out there, is passing without us knowing!


---

Oh a side point on what I am experiencing with Qi. It is literally a physical feeling. I can feel it tingle (thats my word for it). Its not 'sensing it' it is like it is touching me.

Its funny, you hear what I am saying and I see what you mean. You are aural and I am visual and people put information into the context that they are most comfortable with. It sounds like you would probably be the type of person who remembers things best when they recall a sound or says things to remind themselves, I remember what I see and have more trouble with remembering spoken words. RE astigmatism if I recall correctly it is a fault on the lense that results on the incomming information not organising correctly on the retina? Off on a tangent mabey but not completly trusting what you see may explain your preference for hearing, conversley your preference for hearing may mean you unconsciously place less relevance upon seeing to believe. If you dont mind me asking have you got a physical defect of the retina or do you just display the distorted vision associated with astigmatism? You mention having very little visual recall of childhood, are you able to remember sounds and smells and sensations from childhood? Comming from the conventional education view it could be possible that you saw something that frightened or disturbed you and when you told someone you trusted they told you that you couldnt have possibly seen what you saw. For example, if you were sure you saw someone be beaten badly when you were 5 and it wasnt reported your parents may have convinced you it couldnt be true and you learned your eyes were unreliable but your ears didnt fail you. As a result from a young age you would develop a belief that your eyes distorted what was there. (just an example) Im incredibly sorry that something happened to you when you were young that is only just comming to the surface, but on the bright side the mind trys to protect itself so if you are remembering now it means you are in a good place and will cope with what comes back to you. I have read JDs articles you suggested so it looks/sounds like you are in good hands :) On a deeply disturbing personal note, I could never understand the extreme feeling of violence and anger I felt whenever I saw a dark haired man with a particular type of beard. It bothered me and I mentioned it to my uncle (who is a police detective) and he was shocked that I couldnt understand why so he pulled a case file and showed me. A man broke into our house when my father was away, I was 3 at the time and I woke up and went to see my mother and he was rapeing her, she didnt fight because she was frightened he would come after me or my brothers she just cried and kept telling me it was OK. I had no recolection of it but was nonetheless responding to it 20yrs later and feeling the urge to hurt people who looked like a man I could not remember. So I have a tendancy to disbelieve what I hear but trust what I see, I knew she was hurt even when she said she was not.
The physical sensation you mention for Qi, Im not sure I fully understand it. Sometimes when I am training for a brief moment I get this sensation that is hard to describe, I feel I have been sucked out of my body and am part of the universe but at the same time the entire universe is sucked inside of me so I become both insignificant and everything at the same time, your mind is empty but full to bursting at the same time, you are outside of your body looking in but your inside of you body too, fully aware of every movement and sensation but its like something else is making the moment perfect. My Irish grandma calls it "talking to god" a japanese friend says the japanese word for it is "satori" (spelling?) my trainer calls it being "possesed by the spirit of great fighters" it may just be getting the move right for once:) It is frustrating because if I could control it and make it come when I want it I could be a great fighter (its almost godlike how perfectly every move flows faultlessly when satori comes) but when the fight is left to me without the satori moment Im average :) God its sad, propper fighters talk about their fight record and I spout on about brief semi-religous moments that come about through sparring LOL.
Im having a hard time understanding what you said about the natives and columbus, it makes possible sense in my mind but at the same time I lean more towards them seeing it but being unable to name it or make sense of it their minds did not know how to file it so they were later unable to recall it, similar to being able to recall a square exactly but not being able to recall an inkblot, you saw it but couldnt file it in memory because of the irregularity of its shape. Similarly identifying criminals visually has a far higher success rate if the person is of the same race, they see detail that creates difference in their own race. A white person will nearly always have a harder time positively identifying an asian person than an asian would unless they personally know the person.
Mate Im spouting on so Ide better get off the net, but Im sorry if I got huffy over you doubting me I should have been adult enough not to let it bother me, but at the same time Im pretty pleased you dont think Im an academic write off :) All the best for your seminar and I am going to order the books you recomended. I found a budhist monastry a couple of hours away and there is a thai monk there. I am heading there for a couple of days to stay and the monk is going to do some MT work with me and try to teach me how to meditate without falling asleep:) There are 2 indian monks whos english is pretty good and the abbot thinks they can tell me more about chakras. Its costing me 10kg of rice and I am bringing fruit and vegies as a gift. I will either end up going completley mad from the lifestyle or love it and learn from it, and hopefully learn how to harness satori:)

I just looked up the japanese dictionary. Its a bit vague but I think satori means "god like perfection" It seems to loosly translate into potential, its emptying the mind to open the mind to the possibility of perfection.

The columbus and the natives example comes from a documentary called "what the bleep do we know". it is quantum phisics applied to every day lives and the example mentioned was how perception is distorted.
The dude Mark was talking to on messanger was me, after that i have been studying the chakras and beeing only scratching the surface i dare no comment, but it just makes so much sense.

the natives did eventually see the ships but it took them a while as as Mark say they couldn't see what they never saw and immagined possible, when one "saw" the caravels, everyone suddenly was able to see them also....

i dunno how this can connect to your neck...but hey, there you have it

Hi Atreiu,
No longer about the neck so much as alternate healing and the enormous link between mind and body and how experiences and perception can have a profound impact upon physical functioning and vise versa. Mark is a witch doctor :) and I dont have a great attention span and float off on tangents so it seems to have flowed off on to more generalised ideas. I hope you are finding the chakra stuff good, I was embarassed at first because it sounds a bit hippy but its good stuff. If you dont mind me asking what chakra stuff have you done. Have you done any of the colour work or any of the therapy? or is it just an awareness of possible causes that has helped? I found that just having an awareness of what might be behind the problem was enough for me to change my mental attitude and see some results.
The natives not seeing the boats is fascinating, I love learning about new stuff and am one of those people who pulls stuff apart to see how it works, and sticks my finger against a wet paint sign just to check it is wet. I once heard that it was incredibly hard to shoot yourself in the head with a rifle so I bought a replica to see if there is a way (you need flexible legs and you need to be careful or your toe gets stuck) not that I am in any way suicidal but just cause I wanted to know. Mark is a fount of information about stuff I dont know much about or have never heard of so I think of it as mental exercise reading his posts.
PS. Have you heard of the ignobal prize? It is handed out around the same time as the Nobel prize and it is given to a researcher who does the most useless or pointless research. I always read about the contenders. One year a guy won for his study on belly-button lint. He conclusively proved that no-matter the race or environment of the person everyone produces blue lint. Some of them are hysterical but you learn about things that you never thought about (or cared to know about LOL) Working your brain and learning new things is meant to have an impact upon brain degeneration and the onset of dementia, so its all about taking proactive measures to counteract the brain damage from being hit in the head :)

Just started reading about it and realizing a lot of the connections. I am stressed for a number of reasons but with a bit of work on related chankras i found it beneficial. I will continue looking into it, with my skepticism, but with an open mind.
Mark is great in this way, not only knowledgeble but also big support.

Mark, i hope the training went well, your qi did it my friend!!! :)))))

Better respond bit by bit. Lots there :)

marlboro-I haven't remembered much of anything in anyway actually.

Basically what you suggest is exactly what happened but i think more subtle. I think it was how I was 'experiencing' life (haven't got to bottom yet so somewhat speculative). I totally believe the body/mind etc shut down 'pain' when its too much for us to handle. Actually alot of our numbing behavoirs and habits are exactly for that reason. Obesity for example, I believe is often to do with numbing the senses (often how woman experienced thier mothers for example). They use food to numb the body and senses because its too hard to deal with the perception (especially if you have no way of knowing how to deal with it-how many kids are taught how to deal with painful experieces, especially when they are perceptions about things that others (parents) percieve differently).

I'm still digging to the bottom of my stuff and I'm sure I will be for the rest of this life :) but its a cool journey.

I am very very greatful for the opportunity I had to day to do some healing with the guidence of my friend and teacher, JP. We spent almost three hrs and I learned much about myself and my parents and sister (my true perceptions of them etc). Some great healing and digging processes and a wonderful lesson in intuition.

marlboro-I wish I had word to say related to your experience. All I can say is it apears you have done some work on that yourself and I thank you for sharing it here. Those kind of situations are amazingly tramatic for the human mind to try to come to grips with...never mind a child.

You experience supports our thoughts that if we don't heal past experiences you move on through life experiencing it through the protection filters we learned along the way.

Your type of experience I suspect holds a huge potential for guilt (in the mind of your 3yr old self thinking you should do something even though your adult mind knows there is nothing you could have done). But untill the child within is healed (the feelings) the logical understanding of ones adult self experiences the feelings over and over again (or the manner of supression or shutting out (or in) and it becomes a way we go through life.

As you and I have both experienced.

I believe that when we truely heal (not learn to 'deal with') then that part of us 'comes back'. The part that doesn't 'see' or 'hear' or 'trust' or 'accept'..and the list goes on and on...

I believe its kind of like a broken leg that isn't set and never heals properly. With emotional healing (energy gets involved here too and we ARE energy beings) the leg can truely be healed a knew.

marlboro-your experience of 'talking to God' sounds wonderful. And it IS yoUr experience and no one tell you other wise. Though EGO may choose to listen to others nay saying as but you do not have to be controled by your ego IMO

I would like to invite you to entertain the possibility that it is your EGO that is telling you it is 'sad' and that feels the need to controle it (ego is scared by lack of controle and therefor any experience that suggests it is not in controle).

I would speculate that maybe it is our ego that shuts down our hearing when hearing has been too painful to deal with or our vision when something is too hard to see.

If our belief system is conditioned not to believe in...say ghost and lets say there are ghosts... then how big a threat is that to ego's view of self??? I tend to think, and what do I know, that if it threatens the ego too much, egos belief of who we are, then ego shuts it out or gives us a different perspective.

The story goes that the Indians could NOT see Colubus's ships. The theory is that because they had no belief system that allowed for the concept of ships, ships then they were not able to be seen. Quantum Physics supports this type of theory..that we have to know what we are looking at to see it.

A personal example. I was brought up not believing in ghosts. I spent about two weeks sleeping in a temple in which many claimed (including monks) to see ghosts almost nightly. I saw none and I never have seen any. Is everyone else lieing?? Are the monks lieing? Are thier minds creating things for them? Or is my mind unable to see them?

All the millions of bits of info we take in and we only process thousands...

Does everyone who believes different to me a lier or delusional to me? How can we all think this. Its not even logical in the greatest stretch of the imagination.

My belief is when things bother us in someone else...we can find them in ourself.

So never mind if anyones is bothered with you...but I have learned that when I get bothered... I need to look inward. "All external conflict is a reflection of internal conflict."

In my experience I have found this to be a profound truth for me. Sometimes its hard to see and sometimes I have need some guidence but I have always found it inside me. The cool thing is as we start to accept those things in ourselves...gess what? We start accepting them in others and it doesn't bother us any more... So we change our perception and the world around us changes.

Cool huh? At least it is to me ;)

atreiu-congrats!! and yoU did it! ;) I may have helped you help yourself a tiny tiny bit but even that small aspect was dependant of your ability to recieve my help (if it made any diffeance at all.

sceptisism-I think it should be there to check and confirm and to see if somethig works for you. Not take anything just cause someone said so (no matter how official) but when its to the point that one can not look outside the box then there is no way any of thier beliefs (which they probably mostly developed before they were 6) will change. Not changing means staying the same.

How many people want to be tomorrow exactly what they are today??? But how many people will change?

"To do the same thing and expect a different results is a sign of sinsanity"

Of course not wanting to change is fine too. :)

I'm not very knowlageable in the chakra area really. I am learning more and more but my focus is a little more to do with healing, growth. Chakras have been a tool for me to dig deeper but I am starting to learn more about.

Tomorrow I start a three day work shop that will be using chakras a fair bit in terms of developmental periods and developing a mandala-designed to learn more about who we (I) am and what my life has been so far.

Especially after the healing I did today I am really looking forward to it.

-basically I am no expert-I am sharing my experiences with what I have done and learned on myself!

Getting late (travel day here was over 17hrs!!! lol)

Glad to see people experiencing change and growth. Learning etc

Nice guys! Keep it up.

Hi Mark,
I read your post on the main forum about quitting fighting. All the best for your future, you have put alot of work into youself and your life and Im sure you are in a place to find a direction that will make you happy.
I read a fantastic poem once but I cant remember the name of it. But one of the lines is "the person who appears the strongest is often the most fragile inside, the person who laughs the loudest is often the saddest inside, and the person who seems to need you the least will be the person who needs you the most, so open your eyes but dont look you need to see" People put up all kinds of barriers to hide their fragility, and the irony of it comes back to me when I know the barriers like need for control, or competitiveness,shit-stirring come up. I have more barriers than your average person and walk along in almost constant defensive mode, but I feel awareness if half the battle, and knowledge is freedom. I have looked to accademics for answers, and looked to criminals for their explanation of why they do what they do, and mentally ill people for why they feel what they feel, and am now heading towards more alternate explanations. Your thoughts on healing are fascinating because they come from someone else who is looking for answers. I have heard the mirror theory about disliking in others what you dislike in yourself, but have never heard if it worked in reverse. Do you admire in others the best qualities of yourself, or do you admire what you dont have?
My lack of trust for something that I cant pull apart or has a missing piece of the explanation is very telling, I dont know that I will ever get even close to fully healed even if I live to be 100 but I need to try. When I applied for my job at the gaol I had to give a full history and I was told I had more issues than most of the inmates, but in a way teaching others is the best way to learn, to teach someone else how to let go of past hurts and feel safe within themselves leads to your own introspection, as you will have found in your work too. I spent a week in the monostry and it was an experience I needed. I was hopeless at meditation and became frustrated and the abbot told me that you do not need to sit or lie to meditate, and I was trying to force my self to fit a "mould" of how I thought i "should" be. The thai monk showed me some traditional MT sequences and I shaddow-boxed up and down the temple, I told him about my satori/talking to god and he said that is meditation and you need to let it come like letting a wild animal approach you not try to force it or trap it or it will run away. Shaddow-boxing laps of the temple while the monks chanted ment I let go of conscious thought and satori came. It needs more practice but hopefully if I learn to drop the barriers for a moment and leave my self open to it I will be able to make it happen when I need it. Its ironic people put up all kinds of protective walls around themselves to prevent hurt and end up blocking the way for healing and happiness. One of the indian monks was fantastic he explained chakra, and said tight muscles are directly linked to defensively protecting yourself, a kind of constant fight or flight. We practiced some yoga, and he set up a floating log thing on the pond that I had to stand on. If I tensed it would sink but if I relaxed my muscles and allowed the water to flow and didnt fight it I would float. That was possibly the hardest thing I have had to do, step back and trust something to follow its path-not fight it. EGO and control are massive problems for me :) I think the thing that damages people the most is fighting who they truely are and need to be. It is strange to have someone say to you that you are not being what you are meant to be, because the world in general likes moulds and predictability. To be approached by a monk who says "why are you chanting it is wrong for you" when everyone else in the room is can be confronting. To lap a temple when everyone else is sitting, the feeling of being wrong and vulnerable and strange is overwhelming. I learned that I am a coward deep down and it is devastating. I needed to be told to do what felt right not what others did even in a place full of people who did not judge me and probably were focused inward not on what I was doing. I have applied for a couple of study grants and they have been pre-approved. I hope to go back to thailand and live near a monostry and study the psychological aspects and benefits of the way they live, meditate, and their value system. And get some training in too :) And learn about their natural medicines. The second grant is to study voodoo in Nth Africa and how the belief in the power of the witchdoctor impacts upon the people psychologically. I believe it may provide a springboard of sorts in explaining some forms of trauma response. When a person is cursed they believe they are helpless to fight it and their death occurs, similarly when a person has a traumatic experience that they cant stop or controll they learn they are helpless and create barriers to try to protect themselves and their percieved vulnerabilities and they carry it forever. Hardly the white picket fence and respectable office that was and is expected of me, but there was enough of a stink when I took-up MT because its not nice for educated girls and I should have passed that non-conformist stage and they're used to that now, so now they have recovered I can hit them with this one :) If they chuck a shit I'll tell them you put me up to it :) All the best with your new direction and seriously you should write a book, you have so much knowledge about things the average person doesnt know and needs to know before their bodies crash and burn like yours once did and mine has just done. I do believe what you have to say is worth hearing and it would be nice to know that others may oneday benefit from your journey.

"I have more barriers than your average person and walk along in almost constant defensive mode, but I feel awareness if half the battle, and knowledge is freedom."

-I think you are right about awareness. One cannot change (as a general rule) if they don't know what is going on. I don't suspect you have more barriers-maybe just more aware of them... or maybe bigger ones.. but in some ways at least make them easier to see and therefor address :)

Mirror in reverse-most certainly in my opinion. It seems to me it would be a way of trying to make ourselves feel good. I suspect both and I think paying attention could shed the light of awareness on it.

What comes to mind now is that we could possibly use a shaming process 'they are good at that and I am not' and a way to try to seek validatrtion 'they are very good and worth while because they can do ______' something we can do.

I don't really know if that is true but it makes sense to me. I can see how it makes sense to me might mean that its silmply something I do :)

"I dont know that I will ever get even close to fully healed even if I live to be 100 but I need to try."

I don't believe that is a 'truth' for a second. Maybe it is for you but I really believe we can heal. Quite frankly conventional methods rarely seem to add up to much. I know I have a long way to go but I have seen some wild things in my life and seen wild things happen to others. If you want it you can find it!! :) Not always an easy journey.

I may be way out to lunch and you need not respond but if anything comes to mind about when you were 12, that might be a good place to start. Again it may be way out to lunch....?


"but in a way teaching others is the best way to learn, to teach someone else how to let go of past hurts and feel safe within themselves leads to your own introspection,"

I think working with people gives us wonderful insights and helps heal us etc etc but I also think that healing ourselves is the most powerful thing and that healing ourselves adds in great magnitude our abilities to heal or help others heal themselves (in my opinion no one can heal you, you can only heal yourself a wise man also told me that if you want to help people you will fail, however if you want to help people help themselves then you will have much greater success and you'll be way less attached to the outcome and won't drain yourself.)

I believe in a very real way that we can only get people as healthy as we are. Physical, mental, emotional, spiritual etc

So I agree that we gain many pearls from clients and I believe they can help us heal oursleves but to a much greater degree I think our healing is the biggest factor in ours and in being able to teach them how to heal.

Ego is a wonderful gift lol again I think awareness of Ego is the first and biggest step. If you can't hear Ego talk then there is nothing one can do really. I am learning to love and accept my ego. I am learning how to parent it properly, with love and respect and learning not to judge it, slowly learning to observe it. It has been suggested to me that I look at my ego, when it has 'gotten in the way or taken over' like its my child and pulled a magic trick on me. Fighting and struggling with it will only make it fight back-how successful are parents when fighting with thier kids? I learning to try to respect it and be able to see the humour in its illusions (got a hell of a long way to go but I don't judge myself on that either :P). Doing this Ego stops fighting and it allows more awareness of its games and antics.

Love disolves fear! Period. Fighting and struggling and working through issues and confronting fears etc etc is very hard (not saying it can't work) but I think a softer approach is likely to be more effective and not put up new walls and not create feelings that one should be different than they are. "All you need is love.."

We all learn from and teach each other.. well I'd suggest that we all really can only teach ourselves (which IF true suggests teachers/coaches consider the implications of that)

All the meditating and allowing etc is wonderful!!

I am writing an article right now on how we create barriers to protect oursleves actually... I was typing out my notes from the work shop. Paul had used the concept of a 'Shadow Self' which I modified into the concept of a 'Shadow Guard'.. in brief, say at 5 something happened that you experienced as too painful to deal with. Your child self 'hires' a 'Shadow Guard' to protect you.. prob is your child self who doesn't know how to deal with it hires one with the only skills your child self knows -maybe 'sticking your head in the sand' (numbing/not feeling..not being aware of the pain). Now anytime a related situation comes up your shadow guard steps up (often we are not aware of this).

People who do find a shadow guard or self often try to fight it...but its really apart of self and its job discription includes sticking to it no matter what..

..the idea in the article is to (as reading the small print of the contract finds lol) that you can promote the Shadow Guard and retrain him to a new position.. basically awareness and then shining a light..

anyway...blah blah

Your ability to post your issues and conserns suggests to me that you are ready for healing and that is really the biggest step!!! Along with awareness I guess lol

I really think you might find EFT powerful (its a tool of course and different tools for different jobs but its a wicked tool)

Interesting thread for torn neck muscles LOL

Knowing and knowledge

you study to become a brain surgeon and complete all your schooling

you go to the op room for your first patient. You feel prepared and confidant in your training.

Your first client is your 6yr old daughter. How ready are you to proceed with only the education (knowing) and not the knowledge (knowing plus experience)?

On a quantum level we effect those around us (and the whole world). We get healthier (say mentally) those around us get an effect.

On an energy level (which you CAN scientifically look at now) someone with lower energy than you will feed off yours and visa versa. We can learn to pull are energy in and hold on to it 'close your heart' (which we can learn how to do fighting). Most people aren't aware or know how to do this and less energy feeds off more.

Working with people I have said "you can only get someone as healthy as you are" this is another aspect to that..

If one teaches self to be able to feel this energy then one can start moving from theory into experience and physically feel this type of thing happening.

The point is, we should be leading the way if our intention is to help people (better yet IMO&E help people help themselves).

Quantum physics shows us how time and distance are really illusion as well. Einstein was genious!!!! But how much is it really accepted? We know that everything is energy. In fact current scientific research shows that we can only account for 4% of the whole universe!!!!! When we add up all we know its only 4%...and its what? something like 26000 light years across (and expanding and shaped like an egg-current science!! It expanding throws a lot of big questions out there..partly cause its expansion is getting faster!!!!! very strange from either hard core evolution or hard core creation perspectives)

Anyway everything is energy, including thoughts and feelings... what if thoughts and feelings and all your health vibrated more or less positively... what happens to vibrations when they cross? Add together? Cancel? Get distorted etc etc Depending on what else is out there and what else itr comes to..

Ok going way off on a tagent now LOL Now many, who don't already, will think I am really crazy@! :)

Oh, the point...increase your health and increase the health of those around you. Think positive thoughts and you spread positive thoughts.
Heal yourself more and you heal more of those around you.

This sounds wacko but quantum physics is starting to show much of it to be very true (same things that many great teachers have been saying for eons)

If quantum physics is accurate when you forgive someone and yourself you litteraly have a healing effect on them even if they are on the other side of the planet.

Its very old science that say distance is relative.

Even if that is not true how much does it make your life better to forgive and to love others and self?? Besides people think your on crack if you talk about it ;)

I dont think you are on crack!!

I think that is totaly correct,just didnt know it was quantam physics!!

Im a quantam physicy...........physa.....phisasi.........

well i cant spell it but im with those guys!

Thanks Rdouble-some times I wonder. Life is full of many strange and wonderful things that make you go WTF?? lol

As fighters we learn to bring in our energy field to protect ourselves. We learn to close off the heart. In Chinese MA theytalk about this and the rwal masters can fight with it still open. I don't know much about that but I do believe that we learn to bring it in and that is fine for fighting. But if we hold it in and block ourselves to everyday life it will cause difficulties. If you choose to consider this possibility notice how open or closed you feel sometimes or how much you feel yoyu can open up your heart etc... if you think you might not be able to open up much it might be worth working on. I have been guided through this with someone that was sensitive enough to feel me heart and I could feel it open and then he said to close it as he knew I wa a fighter so i knew how to do both. I could literally feel the two places so I am coming from a place of experience as well as something I read.

When we are closed off we close ourselves off from others in many ways...

We stagnate the energy flows and stagnation in life is never good. IMO

I have been reading up about quantam physics and i cant believe how close it is to my personal pholosophy and thoughts..................strange!

Cool cool! :) Its a wonderful weird world 'out there'.

The more we become aware of possibilities the more we can experience them, the more we experience them the more we are aware there is more.

What say you if I said I have felt other peoples hearts from becoming sensitive for starters in Qi flow in my body etc? Or with someone else who is sesitive enough that I have moved Qi through her body and and changed its direction etc which she reported as I did??

Thats not even getting wild yet either :)

Im open to all those kinds of things..................a friend of mine once told me(scientologist) that i realy needed to open my mind up a lot more....

Im trying and its realy fun

Im not asking why even

Im asking .........why not!

lol nice! and why not?

you know my instant reaction to scientology is 'Ii don't know abou tthat shit' You know what the funny thing is though? I really don't know anything about it except that every views it as wacko... Now that is programming to go along with the norm.

Personally I know nothing of it although I have heard about some Galactic Federations or something-I think thats related. Personally I don't buy that. But I also haven't looked that deeply and from all the stuff I have learned and experienced that I was brought up thinking wasn't real...I'd have to say about anything is possible. So my instant reaction to say its bs shit stems from programming and conditioning and fitting into the norm more than it does from using my mind to look at the issues...cause quite frankly i don't know what its all about. :)

Nice of you to allow your self to use you own brain and thanks for showing me how closed mine can be :)

The world is our mirror (especially our relationships IMO&E)

lol nice! and why not?

you know my instant reaction to scientology is 'Ii don't know abou tthat shit' You know what the funny thing is though? I really don't know anything about it except that every views it as wacko... Now that is programming to go along with the norm.

Personally I know nothing of it although I have heard about some Galactic Federations or something-I think thats related. Personally I don't buy that. But I also haven't looked that deeply and from all the stuff I have learned and experienced that I was brought up thinking wasn't real...I'd have to say about anything is possible. So my instant reaction to say its bs shit stems from programming and conditioning and fitting into the norm more than it does from using my mind to look at the issues...cause quite frankly i don't know what its all about. :)

Nice of you to allow your self to use you own brain and thanks for showing me how closed mine can be :)

The world is our mirror (especially our relationships IMO&E)

lol nice! and why not?

you know my instant reaction to scientology is 'Ii don't know abou tthat shit' You know what the funny thing is though? I really don't know anything about it except that every views it as wacko... Now that is programming to go along with the norm.

Personally I know nothing of it although I have heard about some Galactic Federations or something-I think thats related. Personally I don't buy that. But I also haven't looked that deeply and from all the stuff I have learned and experienced that I was brought up thinking wasn't real...I'd have to say about anything is possible. So my instant reaction to say its bs shit stems from programming and conditioning and fitting into the norm more than it does from using my mind to look at the issues...cause quite frankly i don't know what its all about. :)

Nice of you to allow your self to use you own brain and thanks for showing me how closed mine can be :)

The world is our mirror (especially our relationships IMO&E)

lol nice! and why not?

you know my instant reaction to scientology is 'Ii don't know abou tthat shit' You know what the funny thing is though? I really don't know anything about it except that every views it as wacko... Now that is programming to go along with the norm.

Personally I know nothing of it although I have heard about some Galactic Federations or something-I think thats related. Personally I don't buy that. But I also haven't looked that deeply and from all the stuff I have learned and experienced that I was brought up thinking wasn't real...I'd have to say about anything is possible. So my instant reaction to say its bs shit stems from programming and conditioning and fitting into the norm more than it does from using my mind to look at the issues...cause quite frankly i don't know what its all about. :)

Nice of you to allow your self to use you own brain and thanks for showing me how closed mine can be :)

The world is our mirror (especially our relationships IMO&E)

lol nice! and why not?

you know my instant reaction to scientology is 'Ii don't know abou tthat shit' You know what the funny thing is though? I really don't know anything about it except that every views it as wacko... Now that is programming to go along with the norm.

Personally I know nothing of it although I have heard about some Galactic Federations or something-I think thats related. Personally I don't buy that. But I also haven't looked that deeply and from all the stuff I have learned and experienced that I was brought up thinking wasn't real...I'd have to say about anything is possible. So my instant reaction to say its bs shit stems from programming and conditioning and fitting into the norm more than it does from using my mind to look at the issues...cause quite frankly i don't know what its all about. :)

Nice of you to allow your self to use you own brain and thanks for showing me how closed mine can be :)

The world is our mirror (especially our relationships IMO&E)

repetition is the key ;)

(oops)