Canadian Martial Artists Beware!

Dear Canadian Martial Artists:
I am forwarding this following information for all Canadian's to be aware of and for them to immediately take action on. Be very concerned.
Section 83 of the Criminal Code is going to be rewritten in the House of Commons in August 2005. Be very aware as to how this is going to impact EVERYONE in the Martial Arts.
Consider taking immediate action by signing petitions that apply to your Martial Arts or ALL Martial Arts and get them to your Federal MP's before August 1st, 2005.
I hate to sound cliche, but if you snooze you will lose.
I have posted a link to the Federal Petition on my website.
link to petition document

I am doing this as I am just running off for a week's holiday's and I can not contact anyone at CAKMA for their website address to this petition.
Thank you, Mike Miles


Dear Canadian Martial Artists and Citizens:
The Federal Government has taken the view that all martial arts are illegal in Canada!
Section 83 of the Criminal Code of Canada will be re-written in August 2005 in the House of Commons and the amended law will state that "all martial arts are illegal in Canada".
This means all Muay Thai, Kickboxing, Full Contact, Mixed Martial Arts, Grappling tournaments, Karate tournaments, Continuous Fighting events... everything to do with Martial Arts Competition will be illegal in Canada.
We must all act immediately and make sure that there is resistance from the Martial Arts Community across Canada BEFORE they try and rewrite Section 83 of the Criminal Code. Action must be taken BEFORE they sit and rewrite it. Changing laws after they have been written is very difficult as those in Ontario will attest to.
In regards to Muay Thai and Kickboxing, CAKMA will continue to circulate this Petition until August and encourages all clubs, competitors, coaches, promoters, etc. to pass this petition along to any and all clubs and gyms as it affects all martial arts in Canada. The Petition can easily be customized to other disciplines by inserting the words "Judo, Karate, Ju-Jitsu, etc.. ". People can forward their signed Petitions directly to their MP's. For a list of MP's that apply to you in Canada please go to the following webpage:
http://canada.gc.ca/directories/direct_e.html
Sincerely,
The Calgary Amateur Kickboxing & MuayThai Association Executive

My personal opinion.


Bull Sh..

Show what it will be rewritten to be, it will not state all Martial Arts are illegal in Canada.


Do not sign anything without knowing what you are signing. This petition is asking for an exemption.

This petition is asking for an exemption to the code for a specific Martial Art. It is not disagreeing with the code. Read this first, slowly.

Mike please give the public some proof to your claims, if it says all Martial Arts will be banned and cannot hapen I will sign it in a second.

I have a feeling it will be moderized to say Muay Thai will have to be done under a commission.

The old one only mentioned boxing and some may have felt wrongly this could be used to say Muay Thai or any other sport not mentioned had a free reign to do what they please.

Again be aware of what you sign and be educated first.

I say it will likley be updated to be a better, safer Code allowing even more Martial Arts to become actually legal on a National level for the first time.

Like MMA and Pro Muay Thai in Ontario both are legal in other areas but illegal in that province. If the new Code includes them they will become legal across Canada, a huge step for Martial Arts in Canada and one many have been waiting for.

Not to be exempted from the code, the oppisite to be included making it legal!

To actually change the code takes at least two readings in the house but don't quote me on this. There will be drafts leading up to the final time in the house and will take a long time to be realized.

If you want to make an educated opinion put your energy into getting a draft of it. Then comment in an educated way.

If you have any information Mike that is contrary and can be backed up please send it to me.

Thanks

For more information please contact:
STEVE PRITCHARD
SPORT SERVICES DEPARTMENT
ALBERTA PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT
(780)415-0269 AND CAN BE CONTACTED TOLL-FREE THROUGH THE RITE LINE @ 310-0000

CF

I see the pot calling the kettle black. where is the information backing up YOUR statements? You said he's wrong but you and backed it up with anything.

Why would signing the petition hurt Don? Either way I see the petition as something good for all martial arts. It is time to start banning together.

Donald,
Are you on any sports commission in Canada?

Brad has a really good point.

This is a different petition than the first that CAKMA had been circulating, please go to the link and read for yourself the wording of the petition. There is nothing misleading or confusing about it. http://www.mikemiles.com/federalpetition.pdf


If you have doubt about this, do your homework and find out for yourself. CF has provided contact information in Alberta. Use the link to find your MP and ask some questions. http://canada.gc.ca/directories/direct_e.html

http://www1.calgary.ca/bcc/BCC14.asp

Not only is Mr Boswell on a commision, he's a Vice Chair.

So the war is on. Good luck guys and girls hope everything turns out ok. Or even better then ok.

CompleteKicker wrote:
http://www1.calgary.ca/bcc/BCC14.asp
Not only is Mr Boswell on a commision, he's a Vice Chair.
_______________

Wow!
This explains a lot of his past post now.
Thanks for the 411.

How is being a vice chair of a commission mean that he is against MT or martial arts?

On a personal level I know Don Boswell as being a fan of combat sports from boxing to MMA to MuayThai etc I bet everything I own that he does not want MA/combat sports etc to be banned.

Also on a personal level I believe Dons interest is in more fights, fair fights and safe fights. Certainly not banning them.

I would like to see the actual proposed draft not talk about what it says from anyone untill I signed anything.

I think in any area of life one would have to be a complete idiot to sign something without seeing exactly what it is.

Personally without seeing it I would not sign and without seeing it and reading above it sounds like a step forward.

I think many of you know what a fan of MuayThai I am. There is no way in hell I want it to be banned but the talk of a threat of it sure as hell isn't going to get me to sign anything.

No offense but signing things without seeing what it actually is or says...well thats just plain dumb.

Is it possible Mr. Miles to see what it is youwant us to sign about?

Is it possible Mr. Boswell to see what it is that you recommend not signing?

Don't close your eyes and sign I say.

I'm sure Boswell isn't against Muay Thai. But given his response to Mike Miles post he seems to have something against him

I have heard from people I highly respect
and trust, that the Calgary commission has endeavored
in the past to make opressive and overly strict and
burdensome regulations on MT shows in Calgary.

And I sincerely believe that this is true-becasue
of the fact that all the great international cards by
Mr Miles and others which used to occur three
times a year were were virtually stopped
by a lot of petty and burdensome regulations from
the Calgary commission.

In fact, that commission has severely hampered
and damaged MT in Canada, and thats unfortunate
and regrettable. And now they seem to be at it once again.

So it would be very unwise, imho, to put any martial art,
or anything at all for that matter, under THAT
commission. In fact that commission in Calgary
actually ought to be either disbanded or
have one year terms limits imposed for ALL members and
chairpersons-retroactive to last year.

Its a sad fact of life that some people tend to get arrogant,
and power hungry and dictorial when they stay in public
office too long.

This really sounds to me like a power grab by some
power hungry commision member(s)

so, I hope everyone in Canada will sign that petition.

And someone please let me know the name of the MP who is
sponsoring this unwise and heavy handed legislation.
I want to post his/her name address and phone number
on my site so everyone can conact let him/her and let
them know how they feel-in a polite and respectful manner,
of course.

I would also love to know if the MP sponsoring this
power grab has any personal or business relationship with
either a Calgary Commission member or a person with
connections or financial interests
to boxing promoters or others in that industry.
Becasue the public has a right to know if there is any
conflict of interest.

Enough is enough.


my e-mail address is mrcucich@yahoo.com

thanks

dan

"Mr Miles and others which used to occur three
times a year were were virtually stopped
by a lot of petty and burdensome regulations from
the Calgary commission."

can you please name all these burdensome regulations??

It seems you are pitting Mr Miles and the commission against each other and saying the commission is bad.

Quite frankly I'm not sure how this tells us if what we are being scared into signing says one thing or another.

All this name calling and scare tactics are taking away from the issue at hand (sounds like some gouvernments).


So if you want to continue the insinuations and suggestions how about another thread.

Regardless who you tend to believe or what you are taught and what seems what way you would be stupid to sign anything without looking at exactly what it is talking abouty.

How about on this thread we adress the call to sign a petition. If this thing would make a differance in stopping MA etc from becoming ilegal I would sign it in a second.

How ever only and idiot would sign before knowing what its about.

So instead of scare tactics and pitting people against each trying to say someone is bad how about we look at what IS (the re-writing of sec 83) before we deside to sign?

Lets not use emotion and unfounded beliefs before signing something that could be very important.

Lets look at what it ACTUALLY is.

So can you tell us where to look Mr. Miles cause if it can make MA ilegal I will sign and pass on the word.

Mr. Boswell-can you help us in showing us where we can see this thing at all?

Thanks in advance to both of you.

Please can we stick to the facts and not getting into good guy bad guy (another thread for that could be in order if you guys want to try to make people look bad).

So how do we get to see it.

Am I the only one that thinks you'd be an idiot to sign anything with out knowing what it says????

.

"How about on this thread we adress the call to sign a petition. If this thing would make a differance in stopping MA etc from becoming ilegal I would sign it in a second"

==I dont think this new law makes anything illegal " per se" -in some many words. At least as I understand it.
What this proposed law does do, as I understand it,is to put certain Indian Lands and military bases under the jurisdiction of this discredited and untrustworthy commission in Calgary which has brought Muay Thai to a halt in Calgary.

But, as it presently stands now , CAKMA was finally able to resume the great international fight cards Mr Miles used to schedule in Sun Centre, because the commission has no authority (at present) on Indian lands to regulate them out of business. And thats GOOD!! And it should remain that way for two reasons:

1. The Indians should remain free to make their own decisions and retain their sovereighty over their own land. And, that is reason enough to oppose this power grab by tjhe commission.

2. Promoters should have the right to put on shows unhindered by petty, vindictive, fly specking commissioners motivated by a petty grudge.

But, now the commission apparently can't stand the fact that somebody is having an event that they can't interfere with and hinder. So they are pushing for this ridiculous law placing ALL of Canada under the control of a commission.

That's the issue. Please read the petition-the link is in this thread. Then, Sign it- so we can resume the great fight cards we used to see three times a year in Calgary.

What the petition does, is to EXEMPT our sport from the authority of this proposed new law, which would empower the Calgary commission to once again start harrassing promoters for petty personal reasons .==


"How ever only and idiot would sign before knowing what its about."

===Actually, Mr Brackenberry, only an" idoit" (sic) would raise that as an issue when the link to the petition is right here in this very thread for anyone to read-assuming they CAN read, are willing to read, and sincerely want to know what it says. Selah...
Have a nice Canada Day! =

dan

I believe the petition to be good thing for Muay Thai and Kickboxing in Canada.

Section 83 of the code has been addressed before in parliment and my general feeling is that they wish to promote this sport in our country but at the same time are concerned for the safety of our fighters.


To me....its not rocket science.

We need federal and provincial accepted governing bodies for these sports similar to the ones that exist for boxing and wrestling.ie:no one particular person or committee in total control.

There are drafts of proposals and rules and procedures and regulations for these sports in Canada and all we need is to have them accepted by the government to allow an official body to run it.

We are a free country man and the only way to make our voices heard is to call and vote and sign petitions.

Otherwise....they will make the decision for us.

In Support of Muay Thai.

go here: http://www.mikemiles.com/federalpetition.pdf

That link explains that in addition to my concerns, previously expressed in this thread, there is an additional problem with section 83 of the Canadian criminal code.

section 83 defines all fights with fists as "prize fights". Then it goes on to say that all prize fights are illegal. EXCEPT for BOXING matches under the control of a commission.

Now, since all fights with fists (except boxing) are defined as "prize fights" and since "prize fights " are illegal-then that means all martial arts EXCEPT boxing under the supervision of a commission are illegal.

Therefore we want to send that petition to the parliament before they rewrite sec 83 of the canadian criminal code- which also exempts martial arts from the definition of "prizefighting" which is pre4sently illegal under section 83 of the criminal code.

dan

I have had fighters fight in Calgary. And have not found the commision any different from the California or Navada. Of course I don't know what goes on behind the senes with the commision and promoter! I am just talking from a fighter/trainer point of view.
vj

Vinsanity writes:

I have had fighters fight in Calgary. And have not found the commision any different from the California or Navada. Of course I don't know what goes on behind the senes with the commision and promoter! I am just talking from a fighter/trainer point of view.
vj


====Vinsanity, I dont know *all* of the behind the scenes interactions either. But two things are obvious:

1. The great international cards they used to have at the new sun centre in Calgary have stopped. And the shows in Calgary, which were taking place about three times ayear previously have NOT been happening-until this most recent one by CAKMA which took place on an Indian reservation where the commission has no jurisdiction. Instead of the new Sun centre in Calgary which seats many more people.

The last two cards scheduled there (at the sun centre) were halted at the very last minute by harrassment from the commission-which didn't actually become been a problem until after the Sun centre was built.

Now, you and I both know that NO promoter is going to stop doing what he does to make a living, just so he can falsely accuse the poor commsission of inflicting all kinds of unecessary burdensome regulations and rules on him.

So its obvious the commisson has been doing something to hinder these shows.

Now I also know we had sanctioned and actually World Muay Thai title match there at the sun centre and it was a great fight with a sold out crowd of 300 people in attendance to see Ria Ranmarine of Trinidad faced Canada's Erin linley. It was a very competive fight and Linley won by decision. Ranmarine,is the current WIBA world champion and a very very good modified MT fighter.There were also some top notch men's fights on the card.

But, the commissioners began grilling Ranmarine after the fight, about her MT experience, and trying to insinuate she wasnt "qualified" although she fought a very competitive fight had more total ring experience than Linley. It was harrassment pure and simple of the promoter.

The promoter perceived over 500 e-mails from delighted fans complimetning him on this ladies world title fight. The place was sold out.3000 fans in attendance.

Then, following closely ion the heels of that great show, they had another show which was also cancelled at the last minute when some nitpicking, nabob of negativity called the fire marshall and alleged the brand new Sun Centre was "unsafe". Imagine a newly constructed building!! You know as well as I do it had to pass an inspection before it was opened to the public. And there had alrfeady been an vent in there previously...Yet, somebody at the commission called the fire marshall and they had to cancel was the place was reinspected.
thats just palin harrassment-pure and simple.


Then the following show after that was also cancelled last minute due to "concerns" by one of the Calgary commissioners.

and since then there has only been two shows in over 18 months. One was on Military land, and the commission threatened the promoter with a huge fine in the thousands of dollars. So, then there was nothing for nearly a year until CAKMA just recently had a show on an Indian Reservations where this flyspecking commision has no authority.

anyway, all we want is for martial arts to be exempted from the definition of "prize figting" which is illegal in Canada under section 83 of the criminal code. That is only fair, as boxing is exempted fomr the definmiton of "prize fighting" An

I talked with two attorneys One who is from Canada, who have both stated that sec 83 of the criminal code esentially makes all martial arts other than "Boxing under the authority of a commission illegal" as they are defined as "prize fighting" since they aren't "boxing matches under the authority of a commission".

So, in essence all the petition does is urge the MPs whne they rewite sec 83 of the code which they are going to do, to also grant an exemption for all MT and KB to that ridiculous definition which labels them as illegal "prize fights"

read sec 83 of the canada criminal code and please sign this petition if you are a resident of Canada. Its a just a request for MT and KB to be treated fairly.

you can read and access the petition here: http://www.mikemiles.com/federalpetition.pdf


thanks for your thoughtful consideration,

dan
.

Ok

Just one post!

First and foremost this is nothing to do with Mr. Miles other than we have two different opinions. Thats what this board is for. Miles is without a doubt the best M.T. Trainer Canada has ever had, he has put on fantastic events for many years and his athletes are respectfull and do us proud.

As I have always said on here for me if you hide your identity I will not take you seriously as I will assume you have a conflict of interest. This is my right on the board please prove me wrong. Talk to me as a person and state your opinion, I may dissagree but that will be alright too. People can agree to dissagree with out all the B.S.

Dan you have worked closley with Mr Miles for a long time and I personally feel your motives may be suspect. I remember reading a post (another board) from you that put a veiw forward to portray you and a supposed legal clerk in the States had a good understanding of Canadian law and the issues surronding fighting legalitys in Canada. You do not in my opinion based on what you presented. Have you been a matchmaker in the past for any one in Canada and if so how many times and for who?

Your claims about the Commission I sit on are rediculous and comepletly unsabstantiated in my personal opinion. Interference and hinder and the like, just words Dan! Again as I have said from the beginning I will not disscuss paticulars of the Commission on which I sit. You can see Mr. Miles does the same.

Next I love to hear people quote only a small part of the code and give an opinion to others based on that. Mr. Miles has done around 300 cards and done them well in my opinion, illegal in any way I do not think so.

What I am asking is for all to be informed plain and simple. I don't need to be reresented as bad for sport because I disagree with anyones personal opinion. Also represented with qualities by individuals with the wrong facts. I know the job I do to make sport happen not make it not happen. I serously doubt those who post against me here have a clue.

It would have been easy to sit back and not post on this subject knowing I would take a bunch of flack from the same few individuals that run at me with wild claims anytime I post on such subjects. You may be used to having people think of your tactics as effective, I perceive them as mere spin as I have mentioned before.

In the end Mr. Miles may be right, I will not say I know every detail of what the situation is across Canada. But I have the right to express myself and my opinions just as he has.

I know if handled right (included in the code) Ontario will see for the first time MMA and Pro Muay Thai. This is where section #83 has been used in Canada in the past to prosocute parties that put on fights. It's the only place to my knowledge it has ever been used to stop any cards in the last 8 years. Ask those groups there which tact they think is right. They have been the ones not allowed to do cards. Not Alberta, B.C, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Quebec and so on.

Section #83

I beleive I am familiar with this section of the code and personally more importantly how it is interpreted and enforced in Canada. This is in fact what is not rocket science, any lawyer here can tell you the current status and how it is enforced and when it was last enforced, Dan!

Dan, the Criminal code of Canada is not being manipulated by a person connected to the Calgary Commission to think so would be in my opinion absurd. The way National code changes happen are not going to be manipulated so easy. WOW are those Commissions ever powerfull, all you have to do is sit on one and you can change Canadian law, right!

In my opinion as a person not someone in the industry I recomend this.

If you want your Sport to be legal get it included in the code, this is the only way to ensure it's future in Canada. Some have the opinion to have a sport excluded will do this, I personally do not. Make the changes to the Commissions and the code both if you want, do it right. Do not have any conflict in the sport happening and get involved this is the way to make things happen, not slinging crap at some one Dan!.

These are two different aproaches and as I said there are various opinions on the proper tact to take, I am simply putting another option forward. I do know there are many groups here in Canada that have been working to finally getting sports made legal, not to stay illegal as they have in the past.

Standardization across the board in Canada in a responsible manner will ensure a bright future. Ultimetly as long as these sports and the sports emerging in the future have the right tact I will support it. Either way!

I wish all those involved in these sports and I mean all good luck finding the road to success in these manners.

Brad why not get your sport in the code and included, what would that hurt? Really!

Unfortunetly as with the last post I did where I questioned such or was wrongly slagged to be the bad boy by those not knowing what they were talking about this will be my last post on this. As my friend Garry use to say "Are you a man or a mouse".

Don't be a sheep make a qualified opinion for yourself when and if you do stand up and say it.

Remember this is my opinion and not yours.

Right on Mr.Boswell!

I agree with you whole heartly and if others come to the realization that nobodies out to get anyone then we can move forward to attain this goal for Canada.

My prediction for this Aug.......

The whole issue sec. 83 gets waived over again and left the same because no one in the government wants to see the use of elbows and knees to the head in any of our sanctioned sports.

So whats the use of having MT clubs or matches here if they force us to modify the rules to candy ass kickboxing dummy pad fighting.

All we can do from here is petition, petition and petition again with the hopes that maybe they will accept a Federal Governing Body ie:(CMTC-A) to sanction the events and the problem with sec.83 would no longer matter to any of us....

I have had mails with several Commissions in Canada and they have always been answered timely and very polite and proffessional.

Dan just read your last post. Whoever told you that was the events leading up to all the cards you spoke about has led you a line of sh#*. Wrong, wrong and wrong. I have an idea where they came from but could not be farther from the truth, I was at all of those events and what you discribe is untrue in every example and detail. Sorry for you being misled in this way.

Even though I’m not from Canada and not familiar with the situation and laws there, this turns out into an interesting enough discussion to do some research on.

Found this on:http://legalizemma.50megs.com It’s a piece about “Why isn't MMA legal in Ontario?” but I hope it covers what we discuss here aswell. Maybe this explains the discussed law, otherwise the Canadian Axers will surely correct me. :) Also found: http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc-text.html, but it didn’t gave access to section 83

Anyway hope it helps a bit in this discussion.

Prize Fights
83(1) Engaging in prize fight
83. (1) Every one who
(a) engages as a principal in a prize fight,
(b) advises, encourages or promotes a prize fight, or
(c) is present at a prize fight as an aid, second, surgeon, umpire,
backer or reporter, is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
83(2) Definition of "prize fight"
(2) In this section, "prize fight" means an encounter or fight with
fists or hands between two persons who have met for that purpose by
previous arrangement made by or for them, but a boxing contest between
amateur sportsmen, where the contestants wear boxing gloves of not
less than one hundred and forty grams each in mass, or any boxing
contest held with the permission or under the authority of an athletic
board or commission or similar body established by or under the
authority of the legislature of a province for the control of sport
within the province, shall be deemed not to be a prize fight.

Commission
Description:
The Athletic Commissioner's Office administers the Athletics Control Act and is responsible for the proper conduct of all professional combative sports in Ontario. The commission maintains liaison with community centers and arenas, and issues licenses to professional boxers, kick boxers (full-contact karate), wrestlers and all officials involved in these sports.

Conflict of Interest? My opinion is my opinion. I'll assume I'm one of the people you're talking about, regarding posting annonomously. There's no "interest" involved, no other than a fan that sees what looks like BS going on. I dont promote, thankfully.

Link to petition and the proposed rewrite are two very different things.

Again accusatins and name calling.

Lets see the thing.


I hope not everyone is blind to follow inuendo in unfounded accusations.

Again to sign anything without reading it AND what it pertains to is stupid.

I have 'worked' with the Calgary Commission in a minor capacity and I was impressed with them actually.

Personally I know Mr Boswell to be someone who wants combat sports to grow.

We don't know why this or that has happened in Calgary and accusatins that the Calgary Commission is just trying to run things down its absolutly contrary to what I have seen and been apart of.

I love MuayThai and I want ALL combat sports to grow.

Regardless of my trust in anyone I would use my brain and look at what I am signing and at what its about.

Below is the actual section of the criminal code that makes boxing legal as only boxing is mentioned-everything else except boxing under the control
of a commission is deemed to be "prize fighting" which is not only against the law but is actually a crime.

So yes, we *do* need the same exception for MT and KB that boxing has been granted. The petition asks MPS for that exception. I dont see what this petition cant hurt. It can only help.

Ill answer Donald in a separate post.

dan.


PART II OFFENCES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER
Prize Fights
Engaging in prize fight 83. (1) Every one who
(a) engages as a principal in a prize fight,
(b) advises, encourages or promotes a prize fight, or
(c) is present at a prize fight as an aid, second, surgeon, umpire, backer or reporter, is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

Definition of "prize fight"
(2) In this section, "prize fight" means an encounter or fight with fists or hands between two persons who have met for that purpose by previous arrangement made by or for them, but a boxing contest between amateur sportsmen, where the contestants wear boxing gloves of not less than one hundred and forty grams each in mass, or any boxing contest held with the permission or under the authority of an athletic board or commission or similar body established by or under the authority of the legislature of a province for the control of sport within the province, shall be deemed not to be a prize fight.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 83; R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 186


Dan

Dan you have worked closely with Mr. Miles for a long time and I personally feel your motives may be suspect.


===Donald, I have not worked closely with Mr. Miles. In fact, I have never even met Mr. Miles in person.
I am not on anybody's payroll and I call it like I see it. Ask anyine onthis board who has dealt with me.
Actually,the first communication (an e-mail) I ever
received from Mr. Miles, was an email rebuking me for somethingI said on my website that he thought was unfair to his fighters. So, no, we don't always agree. In fact I don’t agree with a lot of the CAKMA rules.And I told him so.
But, we always respect each other, because we are open and frank and tell each other how we really feel.

I can work with a person like that. Ditto, Mr. Fossum. But, a person who believes he is above others and owes them no reply or explanation for anything-for me that presents a real problem.

But, never mind all that. Let's suppose for a momet, that it was absolutely true that I worked very closely with Mr. Miles for a long time.
Why would that make my motive for criticizing the commission or you "suspect"?? I would love to hear your answer to that.

In fact it would be most revealing. Because, it almost sounds like you accidentally revealed that there is some deep antagonism between you and Mr. Miles. If so, it needs to be cleared up for the good of the MT and the KB community in Calgary and Canada. Wouldn't you agree???======



"I remember reading a post(another board) from you that put a view forward to portray you and a supposed legal clerk in the States had a good understanding of Canadian law and the issues surrounding fighting legalities in Canada. You do not in my opinion based on what you presented. Have you been a matchmaker in the past for any one in Canada and if so how many times and for who?""



=======To answer your question, I dont make KB or MT matches. But, I do recommend fighters to promoters when they need to fill a spot on a card. And, I do make some womens boxing matches.
Anyway, I just posted my understanding of code sec 83 in a post direcly above this one. Go check it out and tell me where I am wrong.
instead of simply saying with no evidence that you don’t think I understand the code section. =====================



"Your claims about the Commission I sit on are ridiculous and completely unsubstantiated in my personal opinion. Interference and hinder and the like, just words Dan! Again as I have said from the beginning I will not discuss particulars of the Commission on which I sit. You can see Mr. Miles does the same."



======I can see why you wouldn’t want to discuss the particulars of the commission on which you sit-seeing how things have been done there in the past.
And that’s the problem, Donald. You say it is "ridiculous" but offer nothing to back that up. So, with all respect, its you that offers words with no facts to back them up. I have at least offered the facts as I believe them to be. Now if they are wrong, give us the right facts. Don’t just say its "ridiculous" and hide behind that.

Donald, You also said and I quote: "I will not discuss particulars of the Commission on which I sit." Donald, that is the height of arrogance. You owe it to the community you are sworn to serve to discuss particulars of the commission, because your secret commission "particulars" directly effect each and every fighter, trainers , judge, referee , promoter and fan in Canada. That attitude is appalling-and frankly has a lot to do with your PR problem.========



"Next I love to hear people quote only a small part of the code and give an opinion to others based on that. Mr. Miles has done around 300 cards and done them well in my opinion, illegal in any way I do not think so. "




============But I notice you don’t also "love" to share your legal perspicacity to enlighten us poor ignorant slobs who have such limited understanding. In fact, it seems you don’t like to give out facts to support anything you say. You just blow off what others say as "ridiculous" or that’s wrong" without telling us why it’s wrong, and why what you say is right. Well, sir, that just doesn’t cut it. Except perhaps with a few close friends who think you can do no wrong.==============


"What I am asking is for all to be informed plain and simple. I don't need to be represented as bad for sport because I disagree with anyone’s personal opinion. Also represented with qualities by individuals with the wrong facts. I know the job I do to make sport happen not make it not happen. I seriously doubt those who post against me here have a clue."



=======That's interesting! So then why do you tyhen steadfastly refuse to furnish any "facts" to anyone. All you do is say that others are "ridiculous" in your opinion. But, offer no verifiable facts to support what you say. ======



"It's the only place to my knowledge it has ever been used to stop any cards in the last 8 years. Ask those groups there which tact they think is right. They have been the ones not allowed to do cards. Not Alberta, B.C, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Quebec and so on."



======I have discussed sec 83 briefly in a separate post directly above this one. Please do me a favor and read it and tell why my understanding of it is wrong.I am not to proud to learn from others-if they are knowledgeable=====


"Section #83
I believe I am familiar with this section of the code and personally more importantly how it is interpreted and enforced in Canada. This is in fact what is not rocket science, any lawyer here can tell you the current status and how it is enforced and when it was last enforced, Dan!



========It says that only boxing under the supervision of a commission is legal. any other fighting is considered "prize fighting" and is illegal.
Now, of course, we all know it hasn’t been enforced so far-but it COULD based on the present wording of sec 83. And that’s precisely why we need to make the same exception for MT and KB that is made for boxing. That's what the petition urges the MP's to do.=========



Dan, the Criminal code of Canada is not being manipulated by a person connected to the Calgary Commission to think so would be in my opinion absurd.



========Donald, no one said it was being "manipulated" by anyone. I really don’t know where you got that from. I will say however, that I think that you and other commissioners have given your ideas and recommendations and opinions to the parliament. BTW, that is called "lobbying"- not manipulating.
So, that having been said, do you deny having offered your input with your special status as a commissioner to the lawmakers considering
the rewriting of sec 83?? yes, or no?.=========


"The way National code changes happen are not going to be manipulated so easy. WOW are those Commissions ever powerful,
all you have to do is sit on one and you can change Canadian law, right!"



=====Donald, No one said that-so please cut the obfuscation and the satire. ok?=====



"If you want your Sport to be legal get it included in the code, this is the only way to ensure its future in
Canada. Some have the opinion to have a sport excluded will do this, I personally do not."



=======Donald, As I read sec 83 of the criminal code, as of today, sec 83 only mentions boxing under the supervision of a commission. All other combat sports are deemed to be prizefighting which is illegal.
Do you disagree with that reading of the code? If yes, please explain why?
If not, wthen tell us why n should we not have our sports granted an exception to this code section which presently defines us as "prizefighting"? (which is illegal) BTW: Mark B, I would like to know how you read that section also,
since you obviously oppose the petition...======



"Make the changes to the Commissions and the code both if you want, do it right. Do not have any conflict
in the sport happening and get involved this is the way to make things happen, not slinging crap at some one Dan!."



===Donald, I tend to agree with you on one thing for sure: we should all use our real names-not nicknames.

In any event, I can't believe you are unaware of the deep resentments a number of people in the MT and KB community in Canada feel toward you. Your best friend(s) may be unaware, or possibly they could be
sycophants who do not want to tell you for fear of losing favor with you.

But I *will* tell you. But not for the purpose of being nasty or mean spirited; but, simply to get all this out in the open.
It’s been festering for way too long, and it needs to be cleared up once and for all. And that cannot be done by sweeping it all under the rug.Anbd talking behind each other's backs, and singing "Kumbaya" The time is past for all that.
.
So you need to know that there are a number of people the Canadian MT and KB community who are very unhappy with you. I have talked with atleast a dozen people who have given me this info that you say is all wrong.

So, suffice it to say, you have a major PR problem even if the info is totally wrong and you have donenothing improper. And that by itself is a major problem, and also an incredible PR failure for someone who works for the public.

Compounding the problem is your unbelievable refusal to "discuss specifics" of the how the commision works and makes decisions. That is unbelievably arrogant. Moreover, its inexcusable for a public servant to refuse to
give facts to the community he purports to work for. You behave as if the commission’s business is tantamount to some government secret effecting national security...We are talking about a boxing and wrestling
commission, for goodness sakes-not military secrets.

The public you purport to serve has a right to know when, how and why the decisions were made, or are currently being made by the commissions -because they are effected by those decisions. Hello!.

In fact, the minutes of every meeting should be reduced to writing and made available upon request to any Canadian citizen who requests a copy.
As for your anonymous critics, They are not going to say it on this board using their real name-because they don’t want to alienate a vice chair of a commission.. Especially, one who has a reputation, with a number of people (deserved or not) for using his position to punish individuals based on personal like or dislike of the individual.

Donald, a commissioner must be even handed and fair to all-even those he personally disagrees with or does not like. And I have talked at least a dozen people who say you do not treat everyone equally and fairly. I had fighters who tell me that when they came into your store to shop for equipment
that as soon as you discovered that they were from a certain gym, you became hostile to them, and made them feel unwelcome. Thats your privilge-its your store. But that does makes me think that you do let your bad feelings toward their trainer influence your business decisions as a commissioner which adversely effects his promotions.

If you have done nothing wrong, as you say, and its all a pack of malicious lies, then you still have a huge credibility problem with a at least a dozen
Canadian fighters and promoters. I have talked to these people. I didn’t just dream this up to persecute a man.

However, If they did, and they lied to me, shame on them. But, still you need to ask yourself, what in the world did you do to make them dislike you enough to do something like that? Are they simply jealous of all your good looks, generosity, intellect, virtue, and kindness? Think about it.

I have never met you or Mr Miles or anyone in Calgary. I just want to see these great cards start happening again

Now, They obviously stopped for some reason. And I suspect you know why...and you are not telling us. So, we are left to fill in the blanks because
you think you are so important that you owe no one an explanation for anything-including the MT and KB community you are paid to work for.

Then you get righteously indignant when people like me who want to see the great fight shows return to Calgary listen to others who do offer us explanations.

There is a real problem in Calgary, and it needs to be solved. And to accomplish thatthis stuff needs to be aired. You call it slinging crap, and then clam up and refuse to give the fans fighters and the public you serve any answers-Except to say that you disagree with something.

If my facts are wrong, please tell us what the real
facts are. To just say, I am slinging crap and my facts are wrong-is just talk.(to borrow a phrase from you) unless of course, you correct me point by point, stating where and WHY my facts are wrong-and then insert the "correct" facts in their place. If you show me with verifiable facts where I am wrong-Ill gladly apologize to you right here on this board take whatever embarrassment I deserve.

But so far, You have not done that. Instead you act like some potentate in a third world country who says he doesn’t have to explain anything to anyone-because " he da king. "

(In this case the vice chair of a city boxing and wrestling
commission- which would makes it very more funny-were it not so damned arrogant.)

You also sated that everything I said about the three events I mentioned was all "wrong, wrong, wrong".
.

Hiowever, Ria Ranmarine said the commissioners grilled her about her qualifications after that fight. You said that was wrong. And that you were there.
I guess you are saying she lied to me? I guess her manager, Martin McClashie also lied just to discredit you-he said the same thing!Damn! they even lie about you in Trinidad-Toibago?

Donald...other people who were there said the commissioners did question her. So, Donald what’s the truth? Is everyone slandering the poor commissioners?

Now, about the The second show Mssrs Miles and Crawford scheduled in the new Sun Centre: It most certainly *was* cancelled at the last minute by a complaint to the fire Marshal, after the bldg had already held previous events and inspections-yet you have the un mitigated gall to say that was not true. How can say that and hope to be credible?

I also said the third event at the military base was followed up by threats of a huge fine from the commission.

Yet, you just said all M.r Miles events were legal. So what’s up with that? Do you deny that also? Do you think the other people who know
about all this don’t read this board???? You say all that is wrong-but don't offer any alternative facts.

That makes me think maybe you don’t have any facts to refute any of this. You just say its "ridiculous" and hope to convince people that someone who
lives in another country and has never met you just decided to "sling crap" at you for no reason at all??

No, Sir. You show me some other reasonable explanations that can be verified, and Ill be happy to apologize. This is not personal.(at least on my end)

Donald, I don’t even know you. And I most assuredly prefer to make new friends, not new enemies.

Donald, I just want all the great shows we used to have in Calgary to resume.
You know They didn’t stop having shows just cause the promoters could have some reason to criticize the commission -instead of making a living.

Its so obvious that something happened to stop those events.

Now. what was it Donald? You said you were there. So, Let’s hear your side of the story. Maybe the commission was right. But how can we know that, if you exercise yoru right to remain silent? I for one am willing to listen. I bet lots of others would also give you a fair hearing, and really want to know the truth.Honest communication is the only way to resolve differences.===




""These are two different aproaches and as I said there are various opinions on the proper tact to take, I am simply putting another option forward. I do know there are many groups here in Canada that have been working to finally getting sports made legal, not to stay illegal as they have in the past. ""



==Yes, and so are those of us who support the petition to give MT and KB the
same "exemption:" as is now granted to boxing under sec 83, which thankfully has not been enforced to date.===


"I wish all those involved in these sports and I mean all good luck finding the road to success in these manners."


==So do we all, Donald. But we need to work together and that means communication-not stonewalling and withholding information,
making commission decisions in secret, and refusing to supply facts.
=======

Who sits on the CAKMA board of executives ? And who actually gives them direction ?

There is an old saying that applies here and I think the Canadian Comm. needs to hear it. Even us here at the IKF have to admit to the public when we have errored, made a mistake, etc. etc.. Several here have poked at the IKF in negative ways. Some truthful and some not, but when not, we respond with the truth to try and clear up the issue(s). However, when truthful, we "ACT" upon it and make the change, correction etc. We don't just make up more excuses and BS to side step the truth of the issue.

All this brings me to the saying I was talking about, which until you prove to everyone here differently, even you Mr. Boswell have to admit to yourself that when people like Dan point things out, you either need to defend yourself with FACTS or FIX the problem. I believe why neither is being done is because of the reality of the quote I mentioned which is...

"The TRUTH" hurts, doesn't it."

And from past experoence, we have all been corrected. What makes us different is knowing, "With great power comes great responsibility."

Mr. boswell,
Whether you or I or any other Commission or Sanctioning body, regardless of our "Firm" and "stubborn" ways, THE TRUTH is what needs to be followed. We NEED to not just LISTEN to the participants of the sport(s) we represent but also REPRESENT them all in the best intersst for these SPORTS. In the end, you are either HELPING the SPORT(s) or HURTING the Sport(s). For whatever reason, it appears here you are trying more to HURT Kickboxing, Muay Thai and MMA than HELP these sports.

All of us in commission positions have a BOSS to answer, and our boss' are the very people we represent. If we fail them, we fail what we represent, which means, we would need to find a new job.

So Mr. Boswell, there are a few questions here on the board that need to be answered for us all,

_____
Sec 83 only mentions boxing under the supervision of a commission.
All other combat sports are deemed to be prizefighting which is illegal.
Do you disagree with that reading of the code?
If yes, please explain why?
If not, please tell us why should not have our sports (Martial Arts - Kickboxing, Muay Thai, MMA) granted an exception to this code section which presently defines us as "prizefighting"?
_____

As Dan stated, this is only fair, as boxing is exempted from the definmiton of "prize fighting", So should ALL Martial Arts.

Or... Is this ANOTHER Commissions attempt to outlaw all Martial Art Combat Sports to assist Boxing Promoters with gaining better crowds, sponsorship money etc. etc. If so, than the corruption here is a bigger problem than we thought.

So Mr. Boswell,
Please answer to your public.
Thank You
Sincerely
Steve Fossum
IKF & ISCF President

Hypotheticaly speaking.....lets say,

Mike approaches the Edmonton boxing commission to hold an amateur MT event in Edmonton and is told by the commission that major extra expenses would need to be paid to the commission to sanction the event because they did not at that time recognize the Canadian Muay Thai Councel - Amateur (CMTC-A) as the sanctioning body.

Mike is appalled and develops bad relations with the Edmonton board.

Then, the Edmonton fight fans speak up and start asking the Edmonton commission questions as to why Calgary can hold these events and Edmonton(BTW is the capital of Alberta) cannot.

Edmonton MT fans develop bad relations with the Edmonton commission.

The Edmonton commission takes aggressive action to so call level the playing field and conspire with the Calgary commission to shut him down there as well.

Of course now.....no one would ever admit to such inside political B.S.

This is just my personal thoughts on the matter and would gladly accept a differant explanation as to why this is happening in Calgary.

If anything....I think Don was letting the events happen because of his love for the sport and someone higher than himself(from the Calgary commission)informed him of the issues going on in Edmonton and was possably ordered to shut it all down.......again please........this is just some of my thoughts...I am not claiming to state any facts here....just things I am thinking.

Good luck to Mike and all of Nationals fighters that they get what they aspire and deserve for all their hard work to make MT possably in Canada.

Can anyone explain how these commissions are choosen/appointed in Canada?
Do they have a term? Can they be dismissed by the people they represent?
If Canadian law grants so much power to these commisions, how does this system work?

The City of Edmonton invites citizens to serve on Agencies, Boards and Commissions. The Office of the City Clerk coordinates recruitment campaigns to fill various citizen-at-large vacancies.

* To be eligible to serve on an agency you must be at least 18 years of age.
* Preference will be given to residents of the City of Edmonton.
* No one may be a member of more than one Civic Agency at the same time.
* Anyone who has been a member of one Civic Agency for six consecutive years, may not be appointed to any other Civic Agency for the next two years.
* Most citizen-at-large positions are volunteer, however a few offer remuneration.
* Our Volunteer Management practices include an annual evaluation of Board Members.

Simply put....Our system does not work.
Sec.83 of our criminal code is causing the most trouble at the moment.
Again....the interpretation is very simple.
It should be re-written to include all martial arts and grant their sanctioning bodies full rights to administer the events.

section 83 is antiquated to say the least.

It's also illegal in California for women to drive in a housecoat ( http://www.lawguru.com/weird/part01.html ). Sometimes laws need to be changed and revised to suit changing times.

From:
http://www.lawguru.com/weird/part01.html
______________________________________

California Laws
*Sunshine is guaranteed to the masses.

*Animals are banned from mating publicly within 1,500 feet of a tavern, school, or place of worship.

*Bathhouses are against the law. [Get the full text of this law.]

*It is a misdemeanor to shoot at any kind of game from a moving vehicle, unless the target is a whale.

*Women may not drive in a house coat.
_________________________________

CompleteKicker,
Now that was too funny...
And I as well as EVERYONE HERE agree, "Sometimes laws need to be changed and revised to suit changing times."
_________________________________

But the other wierd laws on that page were even more funny such as;
_______
Alabama
*It is illegal for a driver to be blindfolded while operating a vehicle.

*Dominoes may not be played on Sunday.

*It is illegal to wear a fake mustache that causes laughter in church.
_________________________________

I'm sure the last one in Florida will surly bring the house down...

Florida
*Women may be fined for falling asleep under a hair dryer, as can the salon owner.

*A special law prohibits unmarried women from parachuting on Sunday or she shall risk arrest, fine, and/or jailing.

*If an elephant is left tied to a parking meter, the parking fee has to be paid just as it would for a vehicle.

*It is illegal to sing in a public place while attired in a swimsuit.

*Men may not be seen publicly in any kind of strapless gown.

*Having sexual relations with a porcupine is illegal.

*It is illegal to skateboard without a license.

*When having sex, only the missionary position is legal.

From:
http://www.lawguru.com/weird/part01.html
______________________________________

California Laws
*Sunshine is guaranteed to the masses.

*Animals are banned from mating publicly within 1,500 feet of a tavern, school, or place of worship.

*Bathhouses are against the law. [Get the full text of this law.]

*It is a misdemeanor to shoot at any kind of game from a moving vehicle, unless the target is a whale.

*Women may not drive in a house coat.
_________________________________

CompleteKicker,
Now that was too funny...
And I as well as EVERYONE HERE agree, "Sometimes laws need to be changed and revised to suit changing times."
_________________________________

But the other wierd laws on that page were even more funny such as;
_______
Alabama
*It is illegal for a driver to be blindfolded while operating a vehicle.

*Dominoes may not be played on Sunday.

*It is illegal to wear a fake mustache that causes laughter in church.
_________________________________

I'm sure the last one in Florida will surly bring the house down...

Florida
*Women may be fined for falling asleep under a hair dryer, as can the salon owner.

*A special law prohibits unmarried women from parachuting on Sunday or she shall risk arrest, fine, and/or jailing.

*If an elephant is left tied to a parking meter, the parking fee has to be paid just as it would for a vehicle.

*It is illegal to sing in a public place while attired in a swimsuit.

*Men may not be seen publicly in any kind of strapless gown.

*Having sexual relations with a porcupine is illegal.

*It is illegal to skateboard without a license.

*When having sex, only the missionary position is legal.

I thought it was funny and fitting. I wish everyoe would just get on the same page. Some of us just want to compete and better the sport.

There are some other little tidbit’s that have not been mentioned here as of yet.

The last CAKMA fight card which was held on the Tsuu T'ina Indian Reserve just outside the city limits. Had to be held there due to the constant meddling of the Calgary Boxing and Wrestling Commission and undoubtedly some of its members, just out of reach of there underhanded campaign. It is sad that it had to come to this for everyone involved. But nonetheless it had to be this way to enjoy this exciting, but currently threatened sports event.
The final incident that really put this whole conflict of interest mess into perspective for me. And subsequently led me to really question the motives of the Calgary Boxing and Wrestling commission. Was the advertisement put in the local paper, the day prior to the fight card. It clearly stated (on page 8 of the Calgary Sun, if memory serves me correctly) that the commission was not liable for any of the proceedings and from the wording wanted readers and fighters alike, to believe that this may not be a safe environment for the spectators and participants. It also stated that the Commission was not sanctioning the card.
I was personally outraged as a Calgarian that my tax dollars were misappropriated for this unwarranted and useless public announcement. The only purpose served by this, was to try one last time to poke a finger into the eye of the promoters. I would be quite interested to find out just how much of "our tax" money went towards this scare tactic.
I'll bet it wasn't cheap!
If you truly had no jurisdiction, then why did you guys even bother to make any statement? Oh and don’t bother trying to tell me it was for legal reasons because I don’t believe that for a millisecond. All the past undermining leads me to believe otherwise.
I am left to believe the only reason that makes any sense to me is spite. Vindictive spite, hiding behind legal mumbo jumbo to try and discredit the promoters the participants and the First Nations Band involved in holding this fight card. A desperate and pathetic gesture at best.

You readers might also be interested to know that another Kickboxing and MMA card held the following week - end went on totally unencumbered by you fine folks at the Commission. In fact in the very same daily paper it was advertised quite blatantly that it had your complete and utter support. Oh did I mention that the promoters of this card are on much friendlier terms with D.B. and his flock of sheep.
I read several; no make that a whole lot of post by the perennial loudmouth Mr. Brackenberry. Supporting this card and defending any and all cynic’s who posted anything derogatory about this event. No doubt he would have gladly shouted its virtues from every rooftop in the nation if given the chance.
It made me wonder if he was getting a percentage of the gate.
Too bad we couldn't get him on board for our petition.
We could use someone with his affliction: diarrhea of the mouth.

As a Calgarian, a taxpayer and a MT fan I am going to be the first to call for the total dissolution of the Calgary Boxing and Wrestling Commission. Your reign of terror needs to come to an end.
Mr. Boswell, You remind me of Richard M Nixon, denying any misstep till the bitter end, while full of paranoid delusions of grandeur to boot. There is something corrupt going on here. As you and yours are so fond of saying "it's not rocket science".
The fact is that Mr. D.B. is totally unwilling to answer his detractors and foolishly arrogant enough to take the posture of "I don’t have to tell you anything, you’re not boss over me."
That say's to me that there is some seedy society of old boys trying to promote their own brand of fairness. Not a public openly fair commission concerned with the promotion of "ALL" combative sport’s in Calgary.

BTW Don I didn't see you at Reserve Judgment.
But did see you a few weeks later at the Red and White Club for your pet sport Boxing. Standing at center ring smiling for photo opportunities and helping promote boxing while spouting accolades for the fighters, trainers and special guests. Why won’t you do that for a CAKMA card Don?
Never mind Don, we don’t want to see your fashion statement of a plaid shirt and jeans.
On another personal/ professional note Donny, I've only met you once in person, while trying to purchase a pair of boxing gloves as a birthday present for somebody. Upon entering your store and revealing my affiliation with National Kickboxing your demeanor changed significantly. It was a bitter enough experience for me to never set foot in your business again. This occurred years before I knew any of the B.S. that goes on behind the scenes between you and Kickboxing/Muay Thai promoters affiliated with Mr. Miles.

I will admit that Mr. Miles is not the easiest guy in the world to get along with sometimes and he can be pretty unapproachable sometimes. But to his credit he has at least done more for kickboxing in Canada in a month, than you have during your entire tenure on the commission.
I'm sorry to tell you that the only honorable thing that you have to do that would bring credibility and integrity back to the commission would be to step down.
Resign from your position and prove your commitment to the cities fighters and their respective sports.
Would you do that Don?
Please?

Because I agree with a growing number of sport fans in this city, and now around the world that you are a malevolence that needs to be eradicated.

hmm...Nail on the Head? I think so

Nice little tid bit.

But please dont associate me with anyone here.

I am only trying to learn the insider facts about the crap that goes on our commissions and am entitled to an opinion just as much as anyone else.

As I understand it....the commission's procedure of conduct states that they are not required to disclose certain information to the public when deemed neccessary.

Anyone see a little problem with this?

Obviously a breeding ground for PR issues right there.

Have we done anything to the commission for them to act this way?

I keep hearing two arguments.....

CAKMA wants total control of the industry in Canada.

vs.

Municipal committees want federaly accepted standardization.

The winner????

NO ONE....their all too busy lashing tounges at each other getting nothing done.

Sounds to me like a liberal situation....and that sucks!

Eagle Knee I disagree with the following statment "CAKMA wants total control of the industry in Canada". CAKMA from what I see wants to host quality events. CAKMA doesn't sanction the cards they just promote them. The last event was sanctionced by the IKF and WKA from what I understand.
It is sad that the community of Calgary can't support it's fighters like they once could having to be forced out of comission jurisdictions.

Ballkick made some very good points that tell us more of the situation. I just hope that Mr. Boswell will answer the questions above. My questions is Why does Mr. Boswell have what seems to be such hostility towards some people?Especially National members and supporters? In the big picture we are all supporters of Muay Thai are we not? Atleast I hope so.

If we are going to improve the sport we need to work together.

Brad,

I disagree with that statement too.I have seen some of the awesome work they put into promoting Muay Thai at an equal level for all.

Regardless of who sanctioned the last event...it WAS not and COULD not be held in the city of Calgary.

IT may be just peddy rumours but in the long run these rumours can affect how people act towards others.

Perhaps the only truth will come from D.B. himself....

however, I highly doubt we will here from now that he's been cursed so badly in this forum.

Go ahead Don.....give us the pleasure....enlighten us a bit.

Respectfully,

John Prata

Its interesting that The calgary Commission is slammed left right and center for 'stopping cards' or making things difficult etc

So far no one has said how they have done that. Lots of accusations and assumptions.

It would be interesting to see what steps must be met to do a show in Calgary.

Lots of accusations very few facts. Or as is often the case small peices with personal interpretations.

As a fighter and trainer and fan I wish there was a commission like the Calgary one here in BC.

I believe whole heartedly that they are trying to make things HAPPEN and happen safetly and fairly.

In my opinion they are doing a GREAT job!!!

They have my full support.

I have fought with them as a commission and been honoured to work with them (even though it was only as a dressing room supervisor etc)

I believe the sport is better off with a commission like thiers in place.

Mark, they put a friggin ad in the paper denouncing the event on the reserve. Is that not a concrete action to stop/hinder the success of that event? But maybe you didn't see the ad, so it doesn't exist right?

You're friends with Donald, so in his own words maybe your motives are "suspect".You talk with such authority, please tell us WHY CAKMA couldn't/can't get sanctioning for an event?

I would LOVE, LOVE to read all of the communications between the CWBC and CAKMA, or any other promotor trying to put on a fight card.

Is that information public domain, I highly doubt it.

Well so much for my silence. I may try to inject just a little humor as we go along, be fore warned.Have a laugh and contribute what you can to the debate.

I will try to be as transparent as I can.

If I do not answer a question it will be because I can not or I find it not worthy of a responce and counter productive. This is a like it or leave it..

If I do not answer it because of reasons not apparent on here I will endeavor to answer it at such a time as I can, like it or leave it.

The opinions I express here are exactly that, mine.

If you have any questions for the Commission please contact them. The contact info is very easy to find, do your home work. I can not speak for them.

Most of the info on what happens on the Commission is a matter of public record and avalible to the public. Again do your home work.

"I see the pot calling the kettle black. where is the information backing up YOUR statements? You said he's wrong but you and backed it up with anything."


Complete Kickboxer- first post, you bring no information to the debate what so ever. You are singularily reactionary and contribute nothing by your post. I do admire your loyalty. Not only did I say the petition could be right but I said if I thought it was I would sign it in a second. You put yourself in the catagory mentioned unworthy of a future responce from me if your post is similar.

Brad - Either way as long as it is the best possible. You post with reason Brad and have always seemed concerned about the industry. You are a stakeholder (promoter) in the Alberta industry and as such you can approach the Commission in your area to be heard as one.

IKF - Yes I sit on a Commission, its no seceret.. I beleive you wiill respond to the statments I made in the head trama thread. I stand by those veiws 100%. In that thread I tried to be open as I could to relevant info coming in. Mr. Fossum you seem to respond in a professional and educated manner on most posts I have read from you. I would expect because of your position you may have a good scope of understanding in the industry.

Mark l - As soon as I see any drafts avalible to the public I will gladly post such.

Complete Kickboxer- Inflamatory and brings nothing to the debate, See responce #1.

Dan - Pay attention folks to the specifics here and how they will subtly change what is said. Pull up a chair


"I have heard from people I highly respect and trust, that the Calgary commission has endeavored in the past to make opressive and overly strict and
burdensome regulations on MT shows in Calgary".

Thats great Dan you heard from someone, I am more than confident to know who that person may be. Rather than make such claims Dan let me suggest a tact for you. As I perviously mentioned thse opresive and overly strict and burdensome regulations I would think are readily avalible. Would a man of reason not endeavor to aquire them in hand before making such claims. Furhter I suggest to you to request from the actual Promoter of the events in question to have a look at the sanctioning letter that would have gone out for each specific event in question. It will outline every overly strict, opressive and burdensome regulation in detail. Almost sounds way too easy does'nt it. Mr Craford's contact number is easyily avalible, I look forward to see this come to fruition Dan. The identity of the Promotor of events is part of the information avalible to the public fyi.


"And I sincerely believe that this is true-becasue of the fact that all the great international cards by Mr Miles and others which used to occur three
times a year were were virtually stopped by a lot of petty and burdensome regulations from the Calgary commission".

See above, the rational is a big jump based on hearsay.


"In fact, that commission has severely hampered and damaged MT in Canada, and thats unfortunate and regrettable. And now they seem to be at it once again."

Fact, I think not. See above. For someone with a self acknowledged understanding of Law you seem ready to put forward inflamatory, emotionally based opinion and represent it as fact.Please bring specific and verifiable evidence forward.



"So it would be very unwise, imho, to put any martial art, or anything at all for that matter, under THAT commission. In fact that commission in Calgary
actually ought to be either disbanded or have one year terms limits imposed for ALL members and chairpersons-retroactive to last year.

See above.You have a right to your opinion just as the public has a right to ask the rational behing the formation of those opinions. You base your recomendations to change the terms of the Commission on what specific experience, surley not the above rational. Please list it in full with a resulting risk assesment to the notion and please put forward additional models for comparrison. I will be glad to look at it. I have looked at this issue from all sides in the past and anticipate your ideas.

"Its a sad fact of life that some people tend to get arrogant,and power hungry and dictorial when they stay in public office too long.

More of the same, just emotional opinion based on what.


"I would also love to know if the MP sponsoring this power grab has any personal or business relationship with either a Calgary Commission member or a person with connections or financial interests to boxing promoters or others in that industry.Becasue the public has a right to know if there is any
conflict of interest".

Not a single piece of this supossed power grab has been brought forward, not one. Again opinion that is inflamatory, and the hugest of stretches based on what. Probably the the only bigger stretch is the next sentence. Wow! a Member of Parliment in a relationship with a Calgary Commission members. Man this is rich. Again sadly based on what.

Total fiction imo


Dan second post



"I dont think this new law makes anything illegal " per se" -in some many words. At least as I understand it.What this proposed law does do, as I understand it,is to put certain Indian Lands and military bases under the jurisdiction of this discredited and untrustworthy commission in Calgary which has brought Muay Thai to a halt in Calgary".

Not one minute detail of any new law has been brought forward by you or anyone else. But you are able to interpret the new law and even better understand the specifics. Before you make these huge jumps please bring at least something to the table to give it credibility. Total conjecture unsubstantiaited, where in all of this has there been anything but emotional opinions. Nothing here really.



"But, as it presently stands now , CAKMA was finally able to resume the great international fight cards Mr Miles used to schedule in Sun Centre, because the commission has no authority (at present) on Indian lands to regulate them out of business. And thats GOOD!! And it should remain that way for two reasons:"

I beleive the promoter of record for the events at the Sun Center was in fact Mr. Craford, as stated before this is a matter of public record. A small over sight at first but it will come into play imo later. The issue of cards on reservations is a long one both here in canada as well in the States Dan. Again an issue I am familliar with in detail not emotion. I will be attending the Association of Boxing Commission AGM in Vegas in July, this will be one of the major subjects disscussed which in my mind point to the importance of a lot of knowlwedgable invividuals in the industry seeking clarification and debate on this issue. Anyone interested in this issue plaese drop me an email and I will update you on what happens.
Or we can take Dans opinion that "thats good" because of:


1. The Indians should remain free to make their own decisions and retain their sovereighty over their own land. And, that is reason enough to oppose this power grab by tjhe commission.

Quite the statement. I do not pretend to have any understanding of the Canadian First Nations people and the specifics of their situation. It seems you have a very qualified one Dan, what do you base it on, or do we just throw these wide sweeping statments out there alone. If so can someone expect to be taken seriously? The last sentence more of the same, man this is getting one dimensional. What power grab Dan, let me guess the one your friend told you was happening.


2. Promoters should have the right to put on shows unhindered by petty, vindictive, fly specking commissioners motivated by a petty grudge.

I am having trouble taking you seriously, you are delving into the land of garnering a responce to a statment of this nature in unproductive and not worthy of a responce. You really do just throw them out there.



But, now the commission apparently can't stand the fact that somebody is having an event that they can't interfere with and hinder. So they are pushing for this ridiculous law placing ALL of Canada under the control of a commission.

So Dan now you know what the Commission thinks as well, let me guess your friend. The Commission pushing for this law, un true and guess what unsubstantiated, but very dramatic.


What the petition does, is to EXEMPT our sport from the authority of this proposed new law, which would empower the Calgary commission to once again start harrassing promoters for petty personal reasons .==

More of the same, boring.


===Actually, Mr Brackenberry, only an" idoit" (sic) would raise that as an issue when the link to the petition is right here in this very thread for anyone to read-assuming they CAN read, are willing to read, and sincerely want to know what it says. Selah...


Need a responce, not so much.

Eagle Knee- great post

Dan -third post


go here: http://www.mikemiles.com/federalpetition.pdf

That link explains that in addition to my concerns, previously expressed in this thread, there is an additional problem with section 83 of the Canadian criminal code.

section 83 defines all fights with fists as "prize fights". Then it goes on to say that all prize fights are illegal. EXCEPT for BOXING matches under the control of a commission.

Now, since all fights with fists (except boxing) are defined as "prize fights" and since "prize fights " are illegal-then that means all martial arts EXCEPT boxing under the supervision of a commission are illegal.

Therefore we want to send that petition to the parliament before they rewrite sec 83 of the canadian criminal code- which also exempts martial arts from the definition of "prizefighting" which is pre4sently illegal under section 83 of the criminal code.

dan

That is not what the code reads, further the current interpretation of it has allowed Muay Thai and MMA to be held across the majority of Canada completly legal. I did read ahead Dan and you actually get around to quoting the real code.
This is important because the perception here is actuall quite different from the facts. Another example how a few slight word changes can give a different flavor to a subject. Please dissregard this post as it is based on innaccurete information.

But Dan you still were very quick to jump on this band wagon with out checking the facts first. I take my hat off to you for bringing forward the correct wording in the posts ahead.

Are you the readers starting to get this. If took on face value all contests such as Muay Thai and MMA are illegal not so, not one iota. They are legal and go on quite successfully in Canada, lots of them. Yes they happen under a Commission, lets hear from Canadians across the country what they think of these events that go on. In BC, Quebec, Alberta all over. I think you will find the majority are estatic about what goes on, except for Pro Muay Thai and MMA in Ontario, this will change for the better. Quebec is the hot bed for all the arts way more that any other fyi.


OK thats the first installment, I hope it did not bore you to tears. Lets recap: Facts: few Emotion, accusations, changing the facts (slightly or not), lack of substantiation, hearsay and so on lots. As I said at the beginning this is nothing but pure spin, look it up in the dictionary this is text book.

I will carry on, when time permits.

Wow, I feel judged.

And I am not worthy....so sad, really sad. And arrogant.

Mark, we used to have awesome fight cards, and plenty of them. In the past several years we've seen constant rule changes (I have personally seen as an athlete competing in Calgary). We've had fight cards cancelled unfairly from someone. Some athletes have been unfairly grilled by the comission. The comission even placed an article in the SUN to basically slam CAKMA. Really the what are we left to believe. How has this helped. What things are happening? Less fight cards for Calgary athletes and their fans. Sorry but before there wasn't all this crap to put up with. I guess you wouldn't understand because you don't live in the area.

Like I tried to say at the top.

Enough slagging and making things sound one way or another. Start another thread.

Before signing anything does it not make sense to see what is acctually stated. What the propossed change is and look at the petition.

See all of the three. And all of it, not pieces.

Not from Don, Dan or anyone. From the source.

Then we can all make an educated decision.

Don't sign without knowing (I mean really knowing) what its all about.

Brad-"We've had fight cards cancelled unfairly from someone."

I don't think you or I know all the details in any of those do we?

Completekickboxer-I'm just saying I'm not going to jump to assumptions or listen to hearsay. I don't think I've talked with authority. I am not saying don't sign. I'm saying know what you are signing.

Personally I stand behind the commission but this really should have nothing to do with this thread. Seems like a bit of a smoke screen, play on fears, and spins. (would make some gouvernments proud-can I say that on Ax?)

Both Brad and I are responding to this statement:

"Its interesting that The calgary Commission is slammed left right and center for 'stopping cards' or making things difficult etc

So far no one has said how they have done that. Lots of accusations and assumptions."

THEY PUT AN AD IN THE SUN DENOUCING THE CARD. Does that not make it "difficult"?

Brad-I think you know I love fights and want them to happen.

Do I know whats best? No. Do I know all the details of everything going on there? No. Do I care? Hell yes. I want to fight again. I want to take fighters.

To be blunt Calgary is where I would want to fight more than BC. Personal I won't officiate at cards in BC (not all-generalizing). I don't think that safety messures are met etc and I won't be apart of it as an official.

Also there isn't really pro here.

So basically the best place for me IS Calgary.

Calgary is also good because of TSN. Thats GREAT for MuayThai/kickboxing etc

If things go down there its bad for all of Canada.

No I don't live there but I want the sport to grow.

Emotions and accusations fly around alot. Creates many views that may or may not be true.

I think basing things on hearsay and emotion will get us no where.

Completekickboxer-I was in Calgary and heard about that and looked in the paper-couldn't find though (not saying its not there or anything)

I don't know. I would assume that there would be a reason.

Back again, onward.

====Vinsanity, I dont know *all* of the behind the scenes interactions either. But two things are obvious

1. The great international cards they used to have at the new sun centre in Calgary have stopped. And the shows in Calgary, which were taking place about three times ayear previously have NOT been happening-until this most recent one by CAKMA which took place on an Indian reservation where the commission has no jurisdiction. Instead of the new Sun centre in Calgary which seats many more people.

The reason for this is painfully obvious. Mr. Keith Crawford was the promoter of record for the fights in question. I beleive there may have been a slight change in the business relationship at the Sun Cetre. You could contact Mr. Crawford Directly to comment, I look forward to your findings/

The last two cards scheduled there (at the sun centre) were halted at the very last minute by harrassment from the commission-which didn't actually become been a problem until after the Sun centre was built.

Perfect! This is exactly the type of BS that has been circulated and could not be farther from the truth. Let me guess, this is what for trustworthy friend told you, right Dan. No harrasment from the Commission in any way, the story will change on this one as we go along. Again pay attetion to how changing the facts a little will give the impression the Commission was at fault. However if I was to hear this by someone I trusted as gospel, and did not check it out I would be soo mad at that nasty Commission, how dare they.

For the record the promoter of this event had an issue with the Fire Department of the City of Calgary. Completly seperate from involment of the Commission. Further your freind was not even there for the conversations between the two. Call the Promoter Mr. Crawfords, Dan as it was him that was in conversation with the fire department. Please call him.

Gotta go.

I just have one question for Mr Boswell. or aryone else that knows. On the last fight card at Max Bell how many of the fights were Pro? And what ones? Can anyone help me with this?

From an interesting discussion this is turning into a boring "yes or no" game.

Can someone please upload the old & new changed law so we can see and discuss the differences. Mr. Boswell, as a member of the commission, making a copy available for AX must be only a phonecall away for you. Mr. Miles, since you've started this topic, if you're back from your holidays, please explain some more on your concerns on this law based on the actual changes we can verify with the law. But first, before any more personal claims and comments, get the actual pieces of paper uploaded!!!
So far this discussion is only hurting all people in Canada involved in our sport. Change that!

Eric-

Below (as already posted twice in this thread) is the actual section of the criminal code that makes boxing legal. Notice that only boxing is mentioned-everything else except boxing under the control of a commission is defined as "prize fighting" which is against the law. So far, the only province to interporet this law "literally" is Ontario-but other province could easily enforce it has Ontario has and ban Muay Thai. The language is there to let them do that.

THEREFORE: yes, we *do* need the same exception for MT and KB that boxing has been granted. The petition asks MPS for that exception. I dont see what this petition cant hurt. It can only help.

as for the "new Law" there is no "new" law-YET! They are (alledgedly) going
to rewrite this one.

But, most of us would be happy if they would simply grant MT and KB an EXEMPTION from this antiquated law-

JUST AS THEY HAVE ALREADY DONE FOR BOXING!

Here is the law (sec 83 of the criminal code)as it stands TODAY:

PART II OFFENCES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER
Prize Fights
Engaging in prize fight 83. (1) Every one who
(a) engages as a principal in a prize fight,
(b) advises, encourages or promotes a prize fight, or
(c) is present at a prize fight as an aid, second, surgeon, umpire, backer or reporter, is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

Definition of "prize fight"
(2) In this section, "prize fight" means an encounter or fight with fists or hands between two persons who have met for that purpose by previous arrangement made by or for them, but a boxing contest between amateur sportsmen, where the contestants wear boxing gloves of not less than one hundred and forty grams each in mass, or any boxing contest held with the permission or under the authority of an athletic board or commission or similar body established by or under the authority of the legislature of a province for the control of sport within the province, shall be deemed not to be a prize fight.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 83; R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 186


Dan

PS: E-mail me please!

It's great to see the lines of communication open up a bit in this thread.
I think thats what we all need to get a more accurate understanding of everything thats going on and that has happened in the past in Calgary.

I am surprised that we are not hearing more feedback from our Canadian fighters and trainers on how they feel about these issues.

Although....When I first posted on this site, I immediately started to receive calls and mails intimidating me to keep my opinions to myself and to not stir the pot for my shear ammusement.

So I guess I can understand how easily people can be mis-led and mis-informed when all the info they aquire is coming from a biased point of view and heaven forbid you dont agree with what your trainers and coaches are telling you.

So, all in all, I am getting bored hearing the same things over and over in this thread too and look forward to seeing some more concrete evidence of what will really happen this Aug. in the Legislature.

Funny thing I noticed on the Medical commission pages is that both Calgary and Edmonton at this time still claim to sanction all MT / Wrestling / MMA events.

I realize that they have extreme policies and take a strong stance to protect the safety of our fighters but maybe thats not such a bad thing.

Peace.

Mark L.


2005-07-06 21:56:20 ( time)


Mark L. writes:

It would be interesting to see what steps must be met to do a show in Calgary.

======Mark, It certianly would!!!! And Mr Boswell could easily post all the commisson sanctioning requirements right here. He's the vice chair, Why doesnt he? I leave it to him to answer that. But I wont hold my breath for an answer.

I am am simply expressing my concern, Mark, because MT in Calgary came to a virtual stand still about a year ago. And many Canadian fans and fighters , and promoters alike say the commission has made it difficult if not impossible for Mr Miles and Mr Craword to continue.

I do believe there is some truth to that for the following reasons:

1. Promoters dont just go out of business voluntarily so they can slag poor Mr Boswell and the commission. Surely you know the promoters just decied to stop their onw shows so they could crtise the commission? Of course, so what or
betr yet, "WHO" stopped these shows?


Answers? Try these: the Canadians posting in this thread are essentially sayng the same thing i have with mpore specifics:

for example: . Brad Wall


2005-07-06 22:57:30 ( time)


Brad Wall writes:

Mark, we used to have awesome fight cards, and plenty of them. In the past several years we've seen constant rule changes (I have personally seen as an athlete competing in Calgary). We've had fight cards cancelled unfairly from someone. Some athletes have been unfairly grilled by the comission. The comission even placed an article in the SUN to basically slam CAKMA. Really the what are we left to believe. How has this helped. What things are happening? Less fight cards for Calgary athletes and their fans. Sorry but before there wasn't all this crap to put up with. I guess you wouldn't understand because you don't live in the area.

NEXT:

2005-07-06 22:45:13 ( time)


CompleteKicker writes:

Mark, they put a friggin ad in the paper denouncing the event on the reserve. Is that not a concrete action to stop/hinder the success of that event? But maybe you didn't see the ad, so it doesn't exist right?

You're friends with Donald, so in his own words maybe your motives are "suspect".You talk with such authority, please tell us WHY CAKMA couldn't/can't get sanctioning for an event?

I would LOVE, LOVE to read all of the communications between the CWBC and CAKMA, or any other promotor trying to put on a fight card.

Is that information public domain, I highly doubt it.

NEXT:

ballkick writes:


2005-07-06 05:10:50 ( time)


ballkick writes:

There are some other little tidbit’s that have not been mentioned here as of yet.

The last CAKMA fight card which was held on the Tsuu T'ina Indian Reserve just outside the city limits. Had to be held there due to the constant meddling of the Calgary Boxing and Wrestling Commission and undoubtedly some of its members, just out of reach of there underhanded campaign. It is sad that it had to come to this for everyone involved. But nonetheless it had to be this way to enjoy this exciting, but currently threatened sports event.
The final incident that really put this whole conflict of interest mess into perspective for me. And subsequently led me to really question the motives of the Calgary Boxing and Wrestling commission. Was the advertisement put in the local paper, the day prior to the fight card. It clearly stated (on page 8 of the Calgary Sun, if memory serves me correctly) that the commission was not liable for any of the proceedings and from the wording wanted readers and fighters alike, to believe that this may not be a safe environment for the spectators and participants. It also stated that the Commission was not sanctioning the card.
I was personally outraged as a Calgarian that my tax dollars were misappropriated for this unwarranted and useless public announcement. The only purpose served by this, was to try one last time to poke a finger into the eye of the promoters. I would be quite interested to find out just how much of "our tax" money went towards this scare tactic.
I'll bet it wasn't cheap!
If you truly had no jurisdiction, then why did you guys even bother to make any statement? Oh and don’t bother trying to tell me it was for legal reasons because I don’t believe that for a millisecond. All the past undermining leads me to believe otherwise.
I am left to believe the only reason that makes any sense to me is spite. Vindictive spite, hiding behind legal mumbo jumbo to try and discredit the promoters the participants and the First Nations Band involved in holding this fight card. A desperate and pathetic gesture at best.

You readers might also be interested to know that another Kickboxing and MMA card held the following week - end went on totally unencumbered by you fine folks at the Commission. In fact in the very same daily paper it was advertised quite blatantly that it had your complete and utter support. Oh did I mention that the promoters of this card are on much friendlier terms with D.B. and his flock of sheep.
I read several; no make that a whole lot of post by the perennial loudmouth Mr. Brackenberry. Supporting this card and defending any and all cynic’s who posted anything derogatory about this event. No doubt he would have gladly shouted its virtues from every rooftop in the nation if given the chance.
It made me wonder if he was getting a percentage of the gate.
Too bad we couldn't get him on board for our petition.
We could use someone with his affliction: diarrhea of the mouth.

As a Calgarian, a taxpayer and a MT fan I am going to be the first to call for the total dissolution of the Calgary Boxing and Wrestling Commission. Your reign of terror needs to come to an end.
Mr. Boswell, You remind me of Richard M Nixon, denying any misstep till the bitter end, while full of paranoid delusions of grandeur to boot. There is something corrupt going on here. As you and yours are so fond of saying "it's not rocket science".
The fact is that Mr. D.B. is totally unwilling to answer his detractors and foolishly arrogant enough to take the posture of "I don’t have to tell you anything, you’re not boss over me."
That say's to me that there is some seedy society of old boys trying to promote their own brand of fairness. Not a public openly fair commission concerned with the promotion of "ALL" combative sport’s in Calgary.

BTW Don I didn't see you at Reserve Judgment.
But did see you a few weeks later at the Red and White Club for your pet sport Boxing. Standing at center ring smiling for photo opportunities and helping promote boxing while spouting accolades for the fighters, trainers and special guests. Why won’t you do that for a CAKMA card Don?
Never mind Don, we don’t want to see your fashion statement of a plaid shirt and jeans.
On another personal/ professional note Donny, I've only met you once in person, while trying to purchase a pair of boxing gloves as a birthday present for somebody. Upon entering your store and revealing my affiliation with National Kickboxing your demeanor changed significantly. It was a bitter enough experience for me to never set foot in your business again. This occurred years before I knew any of the B.S. that goes on behind the scenes between you and Kickboxing/Muay Thai promoters affiliated with Mr. Miles.

I will admit that Mr. Miles is not the easiest guy in the world to get along with sometimes and he can be pretty unapproachable sometimes. But to his credit he has at least done more for kickboxing in Canada in a month, than you have during your entire tenure on the commission.
I'm sorry to tell you that the only honorable thing that you have to do that would bring credibility and integrity back to the commission would be to step down.
Resign from your position and prove your commitment to the cities fighters and their respective sports.
Would you do that Don?
Please?

Because I agree with a growing number of sport fans in this city, and now around the world that you are a malevolence that needs to be eradicated.

NEXT: CompleteKicker


2005-07-06 15:21:21 ( time)


CompleteKicker writes:

hmm...Nail on the Head? I think so

NEXT:

Mr Fossum makes a good suggestion for Mr Bosell: see the last sentence of Mr Fossum's post below. I agree whoileheartedly

HERE IT IS:

IKF Kickboxing
main@ikfkickboxing.com
www.IKFKickboxing.com
2005-07-05 19:02:11 ( time)


IKF Kickboxing writes:

There is an old saying that applies here and I think the Canadian Comm. needs to hear it. Even us here at the IKF have to admit to the public when we have errored, made a mistake, etc. etc.. Several here have poked at the IKF in negative ways. Some truthful and some not, but when not, we respond with the truth to try and clear up the issue(s). However, when truthful, we "ACT" upon it and make the change, correction etc. We don't just make up more excuses and BS to side step the truth of the issue.

All this brings me to the saying I was talking about, which until you prove to everyone here differently, even you Mr. Boswell have to admit to yourself that when people like Dan point things out, you either need to defend yourself with FACTS or FIX the problem. I believe why neither is being done is because of the reality of the quote I mentioned which is...

"The TRUTH" hurts, doesn't it."

And from past experoence, we have all been corrected. What makes us different is knowing, "With great power comes great responsibility."

Mr. boswell,
Whether you or I or any other Commission or Sanctioning body, regardless of our "Firm" and "stubborn" ways, THE TRUTH is what needs to be followed. We NEED to not just LISTEN to the participants of the sport(s) we represent but also REPRESENT them all in the best intersst for these SPORTS. In the end, you are either HELPING the SPORT(s) or HURTING the Sport(s). For whatever reason, it appears here you are trying more to HURT Kickboxing, Muay Thai and MMA than HELP these sports.

All of us in commission positions have a BOSS to answer, and our boss' are the very people we represent. If we fail them, we fail what we represent, which means, we would need to find a new job.



finally Heres what I think comes closest of all to describing what may actually be happening in Calgary. Because Mr Miles also had a show stopped in Edmonton at the last minute:

EagleKnee wrote:


2005-07-05 19:28:44 ( time)


EagleKnee writes:

Hypotheticaly speaking.....lets say,

Mike approaches the Edmonton boxing commission to hold an amateur MT event in Edmonton and is told by the commission that major extra expenses would need to be paid to the commission to sanction the event because they did not at that time recognize the Canadian Muay Thai Councel - Amateur (CMTC-A) as the sanctioning body.

Mike is appalled and develops bad relations with the Edmonton board.

Then, the Edmonton fight fans speak up and start asking the Edmonton commission questions as to why Calgary can hold these events and Edmonton(BTW is the capital of Alberta) cannot.

Edmonton MT fans develop bad relations with the Edmonton commission.

The Edmonton commission takes aggressive action to so call level the playing field and conspire with the Calgary commission to shut him down there as well.

Of course now.....no one would ever admit to such inside political B.S.

This is just my personal thoughts on the matter and would gladly accept a differant explanation as to why this is happening in Calgary.

If anything....I think Don was letting the events happen because of his love for the sport and someone higher than himself(from the Calgary commission)informed him of the issues going on in Edmonton and was possibly ordered to shut it all down.......again please........this is just some of my thoughts...I am not claiming to state any facts here....just things I am thinking.

Good luck to Mike and all of Nationals fighters that they get what they aspire and deserve for all their hard work to make MT possibly in Canada.

So mark, in closing (for now) may ask why y ou dont ask Mr Boswell to answer the allegations and concerns made here. and POST all the commission's sanctioning requirements? (instead of asking ME who lives 7,000 miles away in the USA to do it? )

But, hey , I understand. Mr Boswell can more safely blast me and say nothing to the others in this thread (whom I have quoted) Funny they have all said essentially what I have said-but he we wants it look as though it all came from me. NOT!

By the way, mark, I have asked Mr Bosweell three times why the commsioners girl from Trinida (a worlkdtitle holder) who fought Erin Linley in the suncenter)

Notice, mark, that even Brad Wall says in his post that fighters have been grilled by the commission.

and The girl (Ria Ranmarine said that too-so did her manager. But Mr Boswell said that was "wrong." Everyone is wrong but him? do you really think People in Trindad also have a grudge against Boswell?

come on Mark, you KNOW Mr Mr Boswell harbors bad feeling towards Mr Miles
.
read Ball kick's post again.

Think about it. why else would Boswell immediatley say the following:

"Dan you have worked closley with Mr Miles for a long time and I personally feel your motives may be suspect"


Get that: he says my motives are suspect simply for having worked closely with Mr Miles? He certainly wouldnt say that of he considered Mr Miles a friend and a colleaqgue-now would he?

Don could solve all his PR problems (which are of his own making) if he would stop being so arrogant, and condescending-and reach out to Mr Miles in friendship.

is that asking too much?

Dan

EagleKnee writes:

.When I first posted on this site, I immediately started to receive calls and mails intimidating me to keep my opinions to myself and to not stir the pot for my shear ammusement.



====very interesting...==


dan

EagleKnee writes:

I realize that they have extreme policies and take a strong stance to protect the safety of our fighters but maybe thats not such a bad thing.

Peace.


====jmo, but when something is "extreme" its usally bad-because shows a lack of balance.and usually yeilds negatuve results.

just look at the results of the extreme policies in the words of a fighter and promoter:

"Brad Wall writes:

Mark, we used to have awesome fight cards, and plenty of them. In the past several years we've seen constant rule changes (I have personally seen as an athlete competing in Calgary). We've had fight cards cancelled unfairly from someone. Some athletes have been unfairly grilled by the comission. The comission even placed an article in the SUN to basically slam CAKMA. Really the what are we left to believe. How has this helped."


Brad hit the nail on the head, EagleKnee, "How have those extreme policies helped? I say they they haven't. Look at the fruit: no fight cards in a very long time. And promoter shaving been driven ont Indian Reservations. Thats a disastrous failure of leadership by the commission.


By the way, nobody is against safety. Unfortunately, you can use that word, "safety" very effectivley to silence those who are legitimately concerned about over regulating. And it usally works to shut up most people. After all, who wants to be accused of being against "safety"???? Its like accusing someone of being against motherhood.


dan

Mr. Brian Richie can attest to that fact as I immediatetly requested to have my first two posts removed from a thread.

Perhaps this could be the next big Canadian thread topic on Ax.

"Do you as a Canadian Muay Thai fighter have the freedom to say/post your own personal feelings to the world regarding your sport"?

I dont want to post it though cause I'm afraid I might get assassinated or something.....lol.

peace

Dan,

I am a Safety/Quality manager for a large oilfield company and believe you me the measures to protect our employees of hazards IS extreme.

So how much is an athletes life worth then?

A million...ten million...one hundred and fifty billion?

A Muay Thai athlete to me is priceless but then I am somewhat of a humanitarion
and I do tend to take extreme measures to protect my employees.

Sorry to disagree.

we're talking about Muay Thai -not oil fields. theres huge differnce-imho.

I respect your concern however. And thanks for being nice about it-and not calling me an idiot like another poster did in this thread.
I thinkits das yioucant feel comfortable expressing your opinion without beiung threatened by some nut job.

thanks for all you insights. They have been very helpful.

dan.

Eagleknee, that last mangled sentence in my last reply to you should have read:

I think its sad you cant feel comfortable posting your opinion without being threatend by some nut job. It says a lot about the other side.




dan

Here is the law (sec 83 of the criminal code)as it stands TODAY:


Eric: Maybe this will help you understand what our petition seeks to do to the current law.

heres the current law.


Prize Fights
Engaging in prize fight 83. (1) Every one who
(a) engages as a principal in a prize fight,
(b) advises, encourages or promotes a prize fight, or
(c) is present at a prize fight as an aid, second, surgeon, umpire, backer or reporter, is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

Definition of "prize fight"
(2) In this section, "prize fight" means an encounter or fight with fists or hands between two persons who have met for that purpose by previous arrangement made by or for them, but a boxing contest between amateur sportsmen, where the contestants wear boxing gloves of not less than one hundred and forty grams each in mass, or any boxing contest held with the permission or under the authority of an athletic board or commission or similar body established by or under the authority of the legislature of a province for the control of sport within the province, shall be deemed not to be a prize fight.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 83; R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 186

HERE IS THE SAME LAW REWRITTEN BELOW:

(in capital letters) with an exception for Muay Thai, Kickboxing, and MMA added:

Prize Fights
Engaging in prize fight 83. (1) Every one who
(a) engages as a principal in a prize fight,
(b) advises, encourages or promotes a prize fight, or
(c) is present at a prize fight as an aid, second, surgeon, umpire, backer or reporter, is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

Definition of "prize fight"
(2) In this section, "prize fight" means an encounter or fight with fists or hands between two persons who have met for that purpose by previous arrangement made by or for them, but a boxing contest between amateur sportsmen, where the contestants wear boxing gloves of not less than one hundred and forty grams each in mass, OR ANY MUAY THAI, KICKBOXING, MMA or boxing contest held with the permission or under the authority of an athletic board or commission or similar body established by or under the authority of the legislature of a province for the control of sport within the province, shall be deemed not to be a prize fight.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 83; R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 186


the added exception is in capital letters so you can easily spot the slight difference in language that our exception petition calls for in sec 83.

It simply included Muay Thai MMA and kickboxing in the exception to the prize fighting definition.

Those six words added are what is driving the vice commissioner bonkers.

I repeat, they could word it slightly differently as long as we get the same exception to "prize fighting" that BOXING gets.

Is it really that big of a deal? of course not.



dan

Hi again Dan,

A person is a person regardless of what they do in life....ie: oilfeild/MT.

They both pose obvious health hazards but can be controlled to some extent with regulations and unbiased supervision.

As far as name calling goes....I leave that to the pre-schoolers.

I thank you too for your posts as I read through them all maticuliously to find new clues about the on-goings in Calgary and Edmonton.

The proposed exemtion you mention(in caps)is a good idea but will never get passed.

The way sec.83 gets in the way of MT events is when there is no sanctioning body in place to govern the sport.There are already commissions in place to govern these events.

You dont see the law being enforced because the law is not being broken.Except in Ontario.If it is sanctioned by the government...it is legal.

MT / KB / MMA ARE IN FACT LEGAL IN ALBERTA as long as ITS SANCTIONED BY ONE OF THE COMMISSIONS.Which they both clearly state they do.(this may change shortly because of poor relations with the promotors).

Mr.Ed Pearson was kind enough to tell me that CAKMA is more then welcome to hold a MT event here in Edmonton providing they follow their rules and pay the fees.

The problem is no-body in the industry wants to follow their rules or pay their high prices to host an amateur event under local boxing commission rules.

The pro MT events are sanctioned by higher commissions so that is not the issue.

So if a promotor or host holds an event without their local commissions consent thats when it becomes a legal issue against sec.83.(ie:last MT event in Calgary)
and most likely would be enforced with huge fines levied against the host.

The point the Calgary commission was trying to make with the ad in the Sun is that if you defy them and dont agree with their policies they will make sure the public knows that they dont support your actions.

So once again I think the lines of communication have been crossed and misunderstandings have created a mother load of problems for us.

John

Medical / Licensing Requirements by Canadian Athletic Commissions
NOTE: All Canadian Commissions are listed below - If not listed here, there is no legal commission for that area, and all combative sports are illegal under Section 83 of Canada's Criminal Code.

Click on the Commission you want information on:

Alberta - Municipal Commissions - Calgary, Edmonton, Lethbridge, Slave Lake
British Columbia - Municipal Commissions - Nanaimo, Prince George, Vancouver, Victoria
Manitoba (Provincial Commission)
New Brunswick Municipal Commissions - Moncton
Nova Scotia (Provincial Commission)
Ontario (Provincial Commission)
Quebec (Provincial Commission)
Newfoundland (Provincial Commission)
Kahnawake (First Nations - Tribal Commission)

This is just to back up what i just posted as well as to point out the specific wording above.."if not listed here,there is no legal commission for that area, and all combative sports are illegal under Section 83 of Canada's Criminal Code.

Note: this is not boxing specific....it's meant to cover all combative sports.

I personally think it great to see this thread always at the top for the last couple of days... As far as "the publics right to know"... I think "the public" will never really know.

From this thread what I see by SOME people are carefully chosen words and posts, which leads me to believe that you/we are being told only what we want to hear/what sounds proper. NOT FACT!

I am not pointing fingers or puting blame in any direction but my honest opinion is that there is too much politics in this and we will never really know the truth.


just my horse $hit opinion.

Pull up a chair.
Again these are my personal opinions on the matter.

Picking up where I left off. Once the Fire Department clear the venue the Commission worked closley to make card happen asap. The card went ahead and was a success. End of story. As far as the details betwen the promoter and Fire Department, I don't know, call the promoter.




Hiowever, Ria Ranmarine said the commissioners grilled her about her qualifications after that fight. You said that was wrong. And that you were there.
I guess you are saying she lied to me? I guess her manager, Martin McClashie also lied just to discredit you-he said the same thing!Damn! they even lie about you in Trinidad-Toibago?

Donald...other people who were there said the commissioners did question her. So, Donald what’s the truth? Is everyone slandering the poor commissioners?


If the Commission had reservations against a matching they are addressed pre fight Dan and not post fight. Ria and her manager were awesome people and respectfull beyond measure. I know I did not question her, can I say if someone else asked her any questions no. Can you be more specific, maybe I will be able to answer or find out. There has only ever in all events been a single matching refused and it was not in this genre. We rely heavily on the people with the know how (promoters) in this area to make good matches, which has been successfull in the past as demonstated by the quality of the matches.

Let me say this the Muay Thai athletes I have met with out exception in Calgary have been an absolute model of respect and professionalism. I have never met a fighter from Calgary or that comes in from out of town that was'nt a perfect ambassador for the sport. The trainers of these athletes have to be applauded for this.

If you would like to discuss her record specifically please forward to me her record, dates and type of contest. I will be glad to give you my opinion.

Ballkick you are a true piece of work.

BTW Don I didn't see you at Reserve Judgment.
But did see you a few weeks later at the Red and White Club for your pet sport Boxing. Standing at center ring smiling for photo opportunities and helping promote boxing while spouting accolades for the fighters, trainers and special guests. Why won’t you do that for a CAKMA card Don?
Never mind Don, we don’t want to see your fashion statement of a plaid shirt and jeans.
On another personal/ professional note Donny, I've only met you once in person, while trying to purchase a pair of boxing gloves as a birthday present for somebody. Upon entering your store and revealing my affiliation with National Kickboxing your demeanor changed significantly. It was a bitter enough experience for me to never set foot in your business again. This occurred years before I knew any of the B.S. that goes on behind the scenes between you and Kickboxing/Muay Thai promoters affiliated with Mr. Miles.

Pet sport, not so much. Actually I did not talk to the crowd or spout accolades. There was a Commission member that did speak to the crowd for a very good reason. I was the other guy presenting that did'nt speak, I would like to think much better looking. So you cant even get the right person to slag when your looking right at them, typical from you.

The opportunity was to present boxer George Chuvalo with recognition and a donation for his excellent work in keeping kids off the street, and drug free. George lost all three of his sons tragically and since has tirelessly traveled the country doing a unequalled job in this arena. For those that may not know George, he was I beleive the only man to have lasted 15 rounds with Ali, I beleive twice but am not sure. Check out his web site at fightagainstdrugs.ca

There is not a more important job out there for us and we feel strongly about this contribution. Too bad you cleary do not.

Now your my fashion police, halarious. This event we did not work per say but actuall get to have a night out. My jeans were clean and new and my shirt was a short sleved collared shirt that I really kind of like, dress shoes too. Thanks for giving me this laugh.

Now it even gets better bussiness advice from you that slams honerable charity work and those that do it. I put it plainly and clearly to you sir it was not your affiliation that garnered that responce but your behaivior plain and simple. Please do not expect me to ask for you to come back to my business it will do just fine with out the likes of you. I have quite a few friends that either now of in the past have trained there,as well as many customers. You are the exception rather that the rule with your thoughts. Almost with out exception I have found the students there to be more than receptive. You are truley a new low in that regard.


Anyway I feel it is time to stop this method of bickering. Have I been a little condesending, yes. Am I satirical yes. Do I get upset when facts are misrepresented, absolutly. Is this my prefered method of acting towords someone, no.

What is funny is that if a situation is put out there sounding unreasonable if the other side does not jump to the defence and contridict what is being said the original opinion seems to be accepted as fact. It builds in legitimacy strictly thru time out there. So ultimetly you have to either scour around to see if any one is bad mouthing you unfairly, or just don't do anything at all.

I hope to have pointed out how easy it is to change the truth or to beleive things that may seem unreasonable. Will all be convinced, not likley. Could I go on with a ton of additional examples, you bet. I have no feelings either way about any of the individuals mentioned, contray to claims made. Do I disagree with some of the statments they may have made, you bet.



In the future if anyone has a question about what goes on here (Calgary) please check with me first. Contact me here with an email address/name and I will respond back. If I can I will answer any question that seems reasonable.



Lastly in a effort to clear up some questions about what it actualy takes to put a card on in Calgary. This is also a matter of public record via the minutes and is avalible to those willing to look for it. As part of these minutes more so in the past the specifics of the regulating would have been outlined for all to see. Seceret, not so much.

To put on an Amatuer Muay Thai card in Calgary a promoter must:

Hold a promoters license, cost last time I checked is $125.00. Good for a year.

Name a venue.

Provide event (2 million) insurance naming the City as an also named insured.

Pay for the Doctor, officials and on site dedicated ambulance.

Pay a $100.00 administration fee to the Commission.

Pay a $100.00 sanctioning fee for all bouts.

Provide blood work for all athletes (hep b&c, hiv, ekg).

Have all athletes attend a pre and post fight medical.

Have all paper work avalible to the Commission 10 days prior to the event. Barring any last minute changes and such. Have all payments avalible at the same time.

Rules: The promoters in Calgary lobbied hard to have the WKA amateur rules accepted in Calgary. That was granted with two exceptions. No elbows to the spine and the Doctor can stop the fight at any time. This info is avalible in the minutes and is public as well.

Officials: The officials used are a group that has worked exclusivly with the same promoters from the beginning. They were prefered by the promoters and were accepted by the Commission. All officials will have to hold a license, cost $50.00/year. No license for corners in the amateurs. All officials are WKA trained and more than competent. For the amateurs the Commission has the WKA officials oversee the hand wrapping and signing off of same.

This is basically it in a nut shell, if I have missed anything please feel free to ask. If I can I will answer.

So of all the individuals on this board that have experience in these matters, please give your opinion as to how rediculous the conditions are in Calgary.

Do they represent the conditions outlined by some?

Jason - all were pro I beleive.

One thing I also want to clarify is that if I get back on track to the post there is agreement here from all in that.

The code needs to be changed. So there is a positive direction to work in on behalf of all. I will sign as I said anything that I beleive to be best for the future of the sport. Those of the oposing opinion have just as much license to voice thier personal opinion, and I make the comitment to listen to any ideas brought forward.

Dan nothing personal and yes I did blast you. Usually at the end of the line opposing veiws may have more in common that not common. Once all the bs in taken out of the way. Cheers to you.

Mr. Fossum - Hopefully this will show I am willing to HELP and not HURT the industry. I am not aware of any conditions suronding an event held in Edmonton as such I cannot comment. Thank you for your opinion as well.

Eagle Knee- I see there are some assumptions starting again, can you clarify who it was'nt that threatened you if you can't say who it was.

I'm thinking I should fire up my own MT promoting buisness up here in Edmonton.

Heck...I get along with the commission and there's enough fightin red necks up here to make me rich in a year or so.

Go to www.chicksthatkick.com to see how they are starting up their association and you will be surprised to see that they have a womens Muay Thai match tentively scheduled for Aug.2005.

Kind of contradictory of whats been seen here on Ax.

Which by the way is the best forum I have seen.

Respect

Mr.Boswell,

The term I used was 'intimidated' and this is a perfect example of how misconstrude things can get when people dont listen or read carefully enough.

I agree that assumptions are often made regarding your position and affilates,
but you folks leave us no choice by only letting us in on all the"good" things you do for the sport.

I know for fact that there is much info not relayed back to the public from your commission.Go figure....nobody wants to admit any wrong doing.Ever!

You remind me of Martha Stewart man.

Donald Boswell writes...Let me say this the Muay Thai athletes I have met with out exception in Calgary have been an absolute model of respect and professionalism. I have never met a fighter from Calgary or that comes in from out of town that was'nt a perfect ambassador for the sport. The trainers of these athletes have to be applauded for this.

haha...I sent one of my guys over to Calgary to fight "Ironman".... That is the first time I have ever heard him called "a perfect ambassador" He still trains with me and will be ammused at that! Thanx for that Don (and Hi to Jason)

BTW..I think this topicis really interesting, I actually think i understand the reasons why people have got their wires crossed.

My take on the subject as i have read it on this thread is that although the commission can accept MT as "a type of boxing"...Calgary MT does not have a governing body that the commission recognises.....I could be completely wrong but this seems to fit both arguments

I stand corrected Dave. LOL

Eagle Knee
Correction: intimidated. I make mistakes every day, and will likley continue to do so. There so that should cover any of the bad things I do in the future Ha!
How about you Eagle Knee?

Oh yeah...Mike...

That reminds me...we have competed twice on your shows and we are at one win each.

That makes us evens so you have to invite us out there one more time :)

Eagleknee wrote "Mr. Brian Richie can attest to that fact as I immediatetly requested to have my first two posts removed from a thread."

That is true. It was requested by Eagleknee for reasons of political pressure (I guess that is the best wording?) and I did remove his initial posts.

This is a very good topic. It is very educational to me and, I'm sure, many others. I appreciate it being brought up and I appreciate those from both sides of the fence remaining professional in their posts... Donald, Dan, Eagleknee, Mark L, and others.

Well, at least in Canada they reply your e-mails with requests for more information very quickly.

Sir:

We acknowledge receipt of your email dated July 7, 2005 sent to the Information Service of the Library of Parliament.

The Information Service provides information of a general nature on the history, role, and activities of the Senate, House of Commons and the Library of Parliament.

In reply to your request, please note that the House of Commons is not sitting in August. May we suggest you contact Justice Canada at the following address:

Justice Canada
Justice Building
284 Wellington Street
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0H8
Tel: (613) 957-4222
Fax: (613)954-0811
Internet address: http://canada.justice.gc.ca

Both Government Bills and Private Members' Public Bills are available on the Parliament of Canada web site at http://www.parl.gc.ca. Please select: Bills / LEGISinfo / House of Commons - Government Bills and House of Commons -Private Members' Public Bills.

Should you require additional information regarding the Parliament of Canada, please do not hesitate to contact the Information Service of the Library of Parliament.

Sincerely,

C.G.

Information Service / Service de renseignements
Library of Parliament / Bibliothèque du Parlement
Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0A9 Telephone / Téléphone :
Toll-free / Appel sans frais : 1-866-599-4999
National Capital Region / Région de la capitale nationale : (613) 992-4793
Fax / Télécopieur : (613) 992-1273 TTY / ATS : (613) 995-2266
Tours / Visites guidées : (613) 996-0896 http://www.parl.gc.ca

Meet again in September I beleive and it would need at least two readings in the house.

I just wanted to clarify on costing for an Amateur card in Calgary the bout fee of $100.00 is for all fights whether 4 are put on or 10.

Mr. Boswell

Your right...we all make mistakes.I do all the time.
Sry if I was a little short fused in my last post.

To All,

Just a little clarity,

Anything I posted here is my own opinion...as I said many times.

All I hope is that whatever happens in the deal/rewriting that MT can still happen in our province and that ALL(or least most) of the peoples involved with it start to get along better and prosper with the sport.

With regards to being politicaly challenged with calls and mails to shut me up was just some friends poking fun at my posts and obviously not willing to make a statement here.

Respectfully yours in Muay Thai

Donald, thanks for the info on the requirements for sanctioning.

I hope you will contact Mr Miles, and get all these issues resolved discreetly,
and help him resume those great shows in Calgary. It would be tremendous for the sport if the two of you forgot the past and worked together.

thanks,

dan

PS: EagleKnee i am really sorry to see you withdrew your posts-because by doing that, you encouraged and rewarded theperson(s)who were trying to intimidate you.

I don't have a sanctioning letter here but there is one more requirment and its adequete securuty on site. Becauce the Muay Thai groups has done such a good job and have an established track record, Police presence is no longer requiered for most of these type of events. They have been allowed by the Commission to use securuty of thier chosing sometimes in combination with the facilitys. The is a much cheaper way to go. I will go over some of the old sanctioning letters that are included in the minutes when I have time to see if anything was missed.

I miss the shows as well, I have a job to do but am also a fan.

Hi Don,

I appreciate the expression you have for the sport. In my personal opinion,I don't believe you have anything against the sport. Besides, if you do, I can't see you commiting your time on this Forum. I feels the accusation toward you, Perhaps people don't see all sides.

I feels with all the fights cancellation in Calgary for the past year, does have a lot to do with Power struggles. And as fighter, and possibly speaking on behalf of my fellow fighters and teammates. For Some, this sport is a way to keep in shape and keeping healthy. Some do it as personal challenge, and some do it because they enjoy the beauty of the art itself. But for some of us. It is a Santuary. A way to keep us out of trouble and off drugs.( BTW.. God bless Mr.Chuvalo for all his work ). It gives us a sense of belonging.

With all this being said. I'm hoping that all side would come together, and make a positive impact again as the sport, the fan, and most definately the fighters really needed you

I mean need you :)

RagingMac-well said.

Its interesting that when things are addressed-like the crazy steps the commission makes you jump through-are not responded to.

Anyway. I agree with RagingMac and Mr Boswell. Lets stop the bs and work together.

I think it was Eric that was saying lets see what it all is before signing blind (maybe I'm not crazy)

Mr Crawford has promoted many a good event in the past (wasn't he the promoter?) Obviously Mr Miles has played a big part in it all and help the sport alot!

Obviously people have opinions and assume much. However I see lots of slants and presumtions and accusations.

Should have been another thread.

As a fan and trainer and fighter and official I want the sport to grow and be fare. I want any promoter or potential promoter to have a fare shot. I want it to be safe for fighters and fior the future of the sport. I think that a commission like that in Calgary is what the sport needs.

On topic-lets see what it all says before blindly signing (how dumb is that? really?)

Sokhim, thanks.Hearing from the fighters such as you and Mark means a lot.

Mark, no one is asking anyone to sign anything "blindly" and you know that. The current law is posted three timesw in this thread. and the petition asking for an exemption clause to be added to the current law isd linked here.

so waht MORE could you possibly want. (in good faith)

For those who have *sincere* doubts, once again I am posting the current law, (sec 83) and then below THAT I am posting the current law WITH the "exception" language which the petion asks for,

First, heres the current law.


Prize Fights
Engaging in prize fight 83. (1) Every one who
(a) engages as a principal in a prize fight,
(b) advises, encourages or promotes a prize fight, or
(c) is present at a prize fight as an aid, second, surgeon, umpire, backer or reporter, is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

Definition of "prize fight"
(2) In this section, "prize fight" means an encounter or fight with fists or hands between two persons who have met for that purpose by previous arrangement made by or for them, but a boxing contest between amateur sportsmen, where the contestants wear boxing gloves of not less than one hundred and forty grams each in mass, or any boxing contest held with the permission or under the authority of an athletic board or commission or similar body established by or under the authority of the legislature of a province for the control of sport within the province, shall be deemed not to be a prize fight.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 83; R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 186

HERE IS THE SAME LAW REWRITTEN BELOW:


Definition of "prize fight"
(2) In this section, "prize fight" means an encounter or fight with fists or hands between two persons who have met for that purpose by previous arrangement made by or for them, but a boxing contest between amateur sportsmen, where the contestants wear boxing gloves of not less than one hundred and forty grams each in mass, OR ANY MUAY THAI, KICKBOXING, MMA or boxing contest held with the permission or under the authority of an athletic board or commission or similar body established by or under the authority of the legislature of a province for the control of sport within the province, shall be deemed not to be a prize fight.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 83; R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 186


NOTE: This shows the current law WITH the added exception typed in capital letters so you can easily spot the slight difference in language that our exception petition calls for in sec 83.

It simply included Muay Thai MMA and kickboxing in the exception to the prize fighting definition.

Anybody who can read and is sincere will recognize they are not being asked to sign anything blindly


dan

Hi Dan,

Thanx for the clarity with the rewriten of Section 83 Criminal code.

BTW... Mark, Most people that signed on the petition form so far do read before given their Authorization away. Only a miner few that didn't, but because of the trusts they have.

Peace