Some people seem to be obsessed with either alternative medicine and others seem to be constantly trying to find some wonder pill that'll make them (as the song says) better, faster, stronger.

Can I ask a silly question - Why don't you just eat healthy and train hard? It's not rocket science.

As a general rule I agree. Food, water, sleep, thoughts etc all the basics. There is no wonder pill.

That said our food quality today is not what it use to be. Soil studies back in the 50's already showed a loss in soil quality.

Soil quality is directly related to the plant quality (nutritional profile etc) and for meat the soil to the plants fed to the animals etc...

"Alternative" medicine is actually generally normal old school ways of doing things before men killed off the smart women and female healers and started practicing (read that word again) medicine.

People become obsessed with many things and I completely agree that the foundation is far more important than the extras.

We also live in a time where you get more pollution going into your body sometimes in minutes than our ancestors would in a life time. So I think both sides have some consideration

IMO

As a gardener, I can assure you that it's plenty easy enough to grow quality fruit and veg. My granny can (and does) do it. Soil quality really aint a reason for taking supplements - that's a bit of a stretch.

It worked for me.

I think one cause is that people are sometimes willing to try anything that might give them an edge, which can open the door to all kinds of questionable things. Most conditions will improve over time without any sort of intervention (taking a pill, seeing some sort of consultant or whatever) and people often go in for an intervention when the condition is at its worst and can only improve. The question is whether the condition improved because of the intervention or if it would have gone away by itself. This can lead to a lot of urban myths becoming accepted as fact. Another point is that people who are willing to spend time or money on interventions are likely to look after themselves in other ways. If you're happy to spend a load of cash on a food supplement, there's a good chance you'll also be eating carefully, getting plenty of exercise and keeping an eye on mental health. I think also what people really want to get out of "alternative" consultations is not some sort of detailed plan but just a chance for a sit down and a chat with someone who's going to listen and empathise with them.

I'm a sceptic as I think the Imunozen thread shows, but I'm also sceptical of medical claims unless I can find out if they're true. When I was working out how to shift my bulk a few years ago I examined a lot of the claims about diet and weight loss and found a lot of them to be lacking. As I had lot of weight I needed to lose I wanted to make sure I was going to do things that were sustainable and actually work. One I checked was the government advice to eat the 5 pieces of fruit or veg a day which turned out to be just an arbitrary number chosen to get people eating a range of foods. Also, the "no more than 6g of salt a day" guideline certainly isn't a consensus (as the quango responsible for pushing it grudgingly admits).

One of the reasons I'm so sceptical is that a few years ago someone introduced me to the Mayo Clinic diet. I had a look at it but it didn't seem to add up. I did a bit of checking and found that it was a dangerously low calorie crash diet based on atrocious science. I'd been following it for a couple of days but when I found this out I stopped it and did the only sensible thing: nip out to buy some cakes and a nice pie. I certainly wasn't too impressed when I found out that Margaret Thatcher followed it for a while during the 1970s. Out of date and gimmicky diets are a waste of time and money. Low carb was the advice given in the 50s and 60s but things have moved on since then among people who keep their knowledge up to date. The eating plan where I lost 50 kg was a high carb/low calorie one. My weight has gone up by a couple of kilos since then but it's stable, I'm very fit and healthy, and I can get it down reasonably quickly if I need to.

The claim that fruit and veg is lacking in nutrients is pretty common, especially among manufacturers of vitamin pills. However guideline daily amounts and nutritional breakdowns are based on these foods as they are now. Cases of malnutrition are pretty much unheard of except for people on very restricted diets such as anorexics. Being actively involved in sport means you have different requirements to someone who sits at a desk all day and doesn't get any exercise. When I was seeing a dietician to get my weight loss moving again she told me to make sure I was eating enough to keep up with my training. Conventional food from a supermarket works fine for me. I do sometimes wonder about supplements but I'm not sure what they'd do for me that normal food hasn't done.

Good post MH. As far as I see it, as long as you're eating a blanaced diet then what it all comes down to is simple math. By this I mean that as long as you're not eating extreme quantities of processed sugars, unhealthy fats etc. then all you have to do is offset your calorie output versus your calorie intake. If you end up with a positive number, you gain weight, if you get a negative number then you're using more energy than you're giving your body and you lose weight. Obviously this is rather simple and applies really only to actual fat loss and other factors can be taken into account when trying to gain muscle mass etc.

Soil studies and studies on plant min/vit etc content suggest other wise. Just cause you grow it doesn't mean you know whats in it.


What goes into (soil, body anything) is all that can be used to make the plant or your cells etc... soil depletion from what you take out using "conventional" farming practices from same crops for profit over and over and the chemical pesticides etc takes out certain nutrients and also kills the organisms that keep the soil healthy and literally take nutrients to the roots of the plant to feed it.

If its not there it doesn't appear by magic.

That said a healthy diet is 1st by a long long shot and people will often do much better with just that.... our genetic potential may be another story.

How might something have truth and how is it wrong are too different ways of looking at life - 99% of western world see's the later.

I think there is major truth in what you are saying - I just don't see it black and white

Nah I'm sorry man, but blaming the soil quality for peoples diet in the western world is a bit of a cop out and doesn't really have answer my original post.

the only supplement i take is a protein supplement. i take it cos i don't have the time when at work to sit down and eat a small meal. its much quicker and easier to make a shake and is fairly cost effective at £25 for a month's usage......less than £1 a day.

i have a fast metabolism as well so "eat" about 6 times a day to keep me fuelled. put a bit of ready brek in with the protein and you've got what is in essence a meal.

I don't think I am blaming soil quality for peoples diets.

I also agree eating right is the biggest thing.

One of the things I learned when I was playing rugby at school was to eat constantly throughout the day and have small meals rather than big meals. Whilst this encourages people to actually ocnsume more calories throughout the day, it apparently encourages your metabolism to keep running at a high and as long as you're actually aware of your calorie intake has no downside.

And NEVER eat before going to bed. Biggest mistake I think most people make is coming in from training ad straight away havign a meal. I know I've done it because I often go straight from work to the gym then gym to home and wont get in till about 10:30. Training finishes at 9:30 and I stay 10 mins away but I like to have a good goss after :-)

Many different people, many different metabolisms, many different dietary needs IMO

Most (not all) people I think will do better on many small meals.

I also think there are quite a few people, if eating the right macro nutrient ratios, will do much better eating late than not for a few hours before bed and many who will do better having something closer to bed.

my opinion and limited experience