deaths per year in US

106,000 ---non-error, negative effects of drugs
Kohn L, ed, Corrigan J, ed, Donaldson M, ed. To Err Is Human: Building a Safer Health System. Washington, DC: National Academy Press; 1999.

7,000 -----medication errors in hospitals
Phillips D, Christenfeld N, Glynn L. Increase in US medication-error deaths between 1983 and 1993. Lancet. 1998;351:643-644

20,000 ----other errors in hospitals
Lazarou J, Pomeranz B, Corey P. Incidence of adverse drug reactions in hospitalized patients. JAMA. 1998;279:1200-1205.


Sport performance and health...

I'd look somewhere else

That must be less that 1%.

third leading cause of death in US

25,000 a year are docs

http://www.chekinstitute.com/articles.cfm?select=7

Regardless, the point is who do you want to trust your health to?

For the record. I have nothing against doctors as people. I don't like the system and approach to 'health'.

Let me first say I do not think doctors are the be-all-end-all and please don't think I am attacking you Mark.

But, I think to make a statement like that you need to fully understand the scope of the medical profession. Can you name all of the different types of doctors, systems of the body, effects and contraindications of specific exercises? (without google)

Do you have the knowledge to defend your position without regurgitating generic facts?

Can you intelligently debate with a medical doctor and not get shutdown like a highschool dropout? Not that you are a highschool dropout or at that level.

You understand that the Chek Institute is really Paul Chek's garage. j/k

Like a high school drop out. So I guess I should be able to talk neuroligy or be informed about urinary tract disorders why? because I like to read up on it during the weekends.Ha!

I think your on to something Matt.

We should only respect the ear, eye, throat and foot Doctors. Oh yeah and the anesthigeoligist. Oh Yeah and the guy at the local clinic.

I think GP's are great if you get the right one. I think suegons are great when you have to get something cut out of you.
I think a proctoligist is great if your pooper isn't working.
I think a gynacoligist is great when my girlfriend has plumbing issues.

My sis is a naturalpath Doc. The only time I use my GP is to immunize for travel and the once a year finger swirl.

Gynecology is a great profession to get into. I hear there are plenty of openings, though sometimes it can get pretty tight.

No, but I'm learning and have gotten much healthier when I stopped listening to docs and started learning and applying health.

What I'm trying to do is show that there is more than one way of thinking. We are programmed to go to a doc when we get sick.

I've studied with the Colgan Institute and some with the Cory Holly Institute and I am starting studies with the CHEK Institute.

I like them all and they don't all agree 100%. But following some of their ways of thinking and advice my health has improved dramtically.

I think there is a time and place for a 'doc'. But I think we've become a society that relies on everyone else and are not reponsible for anything. We want a quick fix and we want someone else to do it.

I also strongly believe that many things are influenced by the almightly dollar and I will keep looking and learning and trying things out.

But the proof is in the pudding.

My health improved when I stopped listening to the docs (stopped taking what they were giving me), stoppped going for tests etc and started working on health.

I have seen the effects on others as well.

I also do think that CHEK and Colgan etc are a less biased source and though they have a different approach I think their buisnesses will succeed if people get healthier through what they say as opposed to buisness succeeding due to sickness.

I am no expert and I do pass on a lot that I have to look up. But through the process I have learned and do have my own ideas and thoughts. I share to learn better for myself and I think that its good enough stuff that if it helps someone great.

If you don't think that article is well researched and backed up share your thoughts.

:)

Look at deaths from surgeries that weren't needed...

Also infections from surgeries-my dad got extreamly ill from a surgery (not to mention they seemed to have taken his spleen with out saying NOt kidding)

Time and place yes. Again nothing against docs. The system and the training I don't like.

Read the paper (not that its overly trust worthy) how often do you seem problems with prescription drugs? Killed this many or side effects now known to cause etc etc

My understanding of the body says that they pretty much all do damage.

I'd like to line up docs and experts etc from different ways of thinking and look at their over all health. That'd be a fun study.

And look at how the healthy and unhealthy ones do or don't do what they preach or prescribe.

Matt- writes: "Gynecology is a great profession to get into. I hear there are plenty of openings, though sometimes it can get pretty tight."

LOL

I have a problem with Doctors and once made a serious complaint against one as she got her facts wrong! Nevertheless she apologised formally via a letter and hopefully has learnt from her mistakes. Whilst some illnesses could be prevented by better health/fitness measures, we would be completely lost without doctors.

Mark why don't you write to the US government if you feel the system is that bad? What would you do if you (god forbid) got a nasty disease or cancer? Would you ignore your doctors advice and do things your own way (and prolly not live much longer)?? Perhaps what you're suggesting works for minor ailments but I think you'd be screwed without a Dr should something more serious happen to you..

Just like any profession, you get good ones, ok ones and total shite ones.

Perfect Dave. I have always treated them just like any other person that I hire. Carpenter, Laywer, Doctor, Accountant some are good and some are bad. In the Doc's defence the good ones that are a GP realize that the care they give needs to go hand in hand with the output from the patient, its team work.

Heres one. If you have many cronic serious deseases the Doc may say well I'm sorry but its just a matter of time. Now if you harren to have a spare couple of hundred grand lying around you can go somewher like the Mayo clinic and be fixed up and live another 25 years. This is very general in nature but happens every day. I know someone it happened too and it blew my mind. Great system.

Its far harder to be a vet than a doctor.

I think Mark and Matt both have good points.

Choice Plus Physician Credential Search I think this only works in the U.S. and it costs $7.95 for a report.

I wish there were more resources for people to publically give reviews on their doctors. Sadly, that would probably result in someone being sued though. Probably the review website owner.

Stefandang-if I got cancer, right now I would look for a CHEK NLC. I would also look into anything I could find. There is a place in Vancouver that Lesley Colgan (also a research scientist) reccommends that uses a combination or traditional and alternative treatments. I would study and look at all I could. Docs would not be my main focus at all!

I think that there is too many sources that influence the gov

after 20 years of tousands of scientists and docs trying to get US gov to change 4 basic food groups they started to listen. The food lobbies then screamed bloody murder and the food pyramid was born-being a combination of what both groups wanted. The grain lobby being very strong at the time is...yep the base of the pyramid.

At a Power Program training camp with the Colgan Institute a while back we were told that the dairy lobby is gaining strength and the grain lobbies were loosing strength. I asked if they thought that would mean the food pyramid would change. Their opinion was most likely.

A few months back in the paper it had new US dietary guide lines.. no surprise dairy was up and grains where down.

I am not saying I would never go to a doc...but for health I wouldn't as a general rule.


I think docs are often great people with great intents. But I don't like the western approach to medicine nor do I think that all studies are looked at equally. I also think that there are many things that infulence how things are done and run.

I think there are good and bad docs and alternative practitioners. I think there is a time and place for docs. But I think our blind reliance on them as gods of our health is quite dangerous.

Most docs that I think are good also study or train in fields outside of the western medical norm.

Choice Plus Physician Credential Search-credentials are only part of the picture I think.

You can have degrees and belts in MuayThai but does that mean you can teach or fight?

I'm not impressed with the system so the systems credentials are going to be a smaller part of the pic for me.

How much of western medical science is in studying the sick and disease and how much is in studying health and the healthy?

Make sense to me to look to those who are healthy for clues on health.

I don't think much western medicine is focussed on health at all.

My friend just finnished medical school in the US and is becoming a GP.

He believes in nutrition and prevention and he wishes that was something they learned much more about. I forget the numbers but the nutrition component of their training was next to minimal.

Point is he's a great guy. He has great intentions. He's a doc I go to over one who wants to hand out prescriptions etc But at the same time he isn't educated in some important areas. At least areas i think are important.

Docs have their place and there are things I would go to a doc for. But for my base on health? Nope I won't bet my health on them.

What exactly defines "Western" medicine? I'm pretty sure GPs in China, India, Germany, Nigeria, and Argentina have pretty similar modes of practice.
Are you down with herbalists who recommend eating bear paws to keep your potency? When does medicine stop being "Western" and when does it begin being old wifes tales and quakery?
If I had cancer I'm not sure I'd like to begin a trial-and-error approach to my cure before trying established hospital medicine.

If I'm not mistaken in China the docs are paid per patient and they loose the money if the patient becomes ill. Not sure wherer I heard this but that would be a good modle for Docs I think.

If I trust the source I'll look into what is said regardless what it sounds like.

Quackery is relative to to whats known and excepted.

The cool thing is we can have different views. My concern is that we are brought up thinking one way generally. I think its benificial to look around and try to do so with 'an empty cup'.

I hope neither of us 'get' cancer.

If I'm not mistaken China is a communist country.

Well communists have to eat too :p
But it does sound kind of far-fetched that the doctors would be paid per healthy patient they have, rather than for actually doing some work. And why should the doctor get paid only if he succeeds rather than for his efforts. That would be like a coach being paid only if the team wins.

I remember reading about physicians to emperors and royalty who, if the subject died, would all be put to death but that was centuries ago.

"Let me get this straight, I've just had my brain operated upon by a carpet-salesman? Well that explains why my hair grew back in a f**king paisley pattern!"

Jack Dee, english comedian talking about bogus doctors.

I'd go to a doc if was paid for my health over one that makes money from my sickness in a heart beat (of course there'd be other factors but come on.

Other factors indeed... how is the guy supposed to control factors like patient compliance with the treatment, new disease processes... lot of bioindividuality.. response to the treatment... exactly like paying a coach for his work only if the team wins the championships.

hey-I'd be more interested into looking at a doc that got paid to keep me healthy. Maybe I'm a fool :)

My main thing is that I think its good for people to be aware that there is more than one view and that Western Med etc is one option. I htink its fair for people to know. Personally I don't have a huge love for most modern western medical aproaches.

Mark, can you name some these approches?

And I'd also like to know about the success rates of these approaches vs. 'western' medicine.
I'd also love to have a coach that I only had to pay if I won my fight.

Mark, do you know if it wasn't for western medical science you could have lost your leg when you had that bad staph infection few years ago.

I can understand your frustration because you had that bout with muscular atrophy and felt the western approch did nothing for you, but western medical science has teated and cured more people in the last 100 years that alterantive medicine has in the last 500.

BTW, did you get tested for parasites? May of your symptoms fit giardiasis.

Matt-I said I believe there is a time and place. I don't like the system and the aproach.

Matt-a holistic aproach to nutrition, life style and exercise.

The healthiest people I know generally don't go to docs and don't take the drugs they push on you.

Infections-yes time and place but the healthier the body and the stronger the immune system the better it can deal with things and not 'need' poisons to deal with problems.

"cured" you mean symptoms or problems

Hey I'm just saying we are taught and programed a certain way.

I think there are other things to look at and that western med has a very narrow focus and isn't about health but about treatment of symptoms and very rarely the actual cause or problem.

We want to eat crap(look at hospital food can you believe how poor it is?), drink, smoke, party and take a pill to be all ok when we fall apart.

You don't have to agree thats cool.

Sharing my views.

If you don't think that article makes you at least think, then in my opinion, its your loss.

Matt-I look around at family and friends and see problems that docs cannot fix or the problems arising from docs (again nothing against docs-more the system and the training and lack of training in health).

How many people a year die from infections from surgery.

My dad didn't die but he got a very serious infection from surgery.

My parents health, and sis. I see improvments when they take less drugs and listen to docs less and do more alternative methods. My dads IBS and colitis etc is the best its ever been since he stopped the drugs the feed you and changed his diet. My mum has had great results from doing alternative methods of health care.



Everyone I know who is improving health is doing it without docs and modern medical practice.

I know countless people who the docs have not helped.

Modern Western Med has 'cured' so many... how many has it made sick?

How many people do you know who were cured by a drug? I'm not talking symptoms I talking cured.

Yeah personal experiance make a differance in what I believe but I see it everywhere I look.

"My dad didn't die but he got a very serious infection from surgery."

You got a very serious infection from bumbing you leg on a table...

If you don't mind me asking, what was the surgery for? Was it something that could have been cured without surgery?
Infections are one of the many risks involved with any surgery.

"Modern Western Med has 'cured' so many... how many has it made sick?"

It has treated and cure many more illnesses that alternative "medicine" can even approach.

Mark, name some diseases that can be cured with non-western medical science?

Healthy people died from the common cold 90 years ago...

In 1918-1919, influenza killed 850,000 people in the US (only 600,000 Americans died in WWII). In the end 37 million people world wide died from the flu during those two years. Modern medicine has made the flu an inconvenience for most people today.

There are hundreds of such examples like this. I guarantee if you find someone you care for unconscious you are going to call 911 not Paul Chek.

"I guarantee if you find someone you care for unconscious you are going to call 911 not Paul Chek." LOL.
Those are some examples about the benefits of medical science... I think alternative medicine is often lacking in understanding and more often relies on some things that were found to work on a trail-and-error basis... effective, but dangerous. Not that medical science doesn't engage in this (mechanisms for many drugs aren't understood, they just work). Also, I believe the 4th leading cause of death in either Canda or the U.S. is post-surgical infections (don't remember where I heard this figure). But then, how many of those people would of died if they didn't have the surgery? I don't know.
Yea a lot of people that don't go to doctors are really healthy, but I would think that it's coz they're healthy that they don't go to the doc, not the other way around. I never go to the doc unless there's something significantly wrong. How many hypochondriacs and people with weird disease that docs can't help are helped by alternative medicine. I know Mark will say he is one of them, but I'm sure there are plenty of things alternative medicine can't do nothing about. I think a lot of those kind of things (headaches, various pains, feelings of malaise) take time and have some psychological components, but people always want a silver bullet. I don't think medical science is in direct opposition with the concept of living and eating healthy, so I don't see what 'alternative' medicine is supposed to be anyway. Let's have some definitions.

You guys are looking at things very black and white.

I'm saying there is a time and place and I think there is way too great an focus on docs giving us the quick cure all pill.

I believe in prevention and natural treeatments and strengthening the host body so that it can deal with things better.

If you disagree thats cool.

I think synergy is in pretty much everything and compartmentally looking at one area is a mistake.

Yes saying someone unconscious who would you call is funny but at the same time its a pretty lame analogy.

Time and place.

Matt-infections-what causes infections to become a problem? When they overwhelm the bodies ability to deal with the 'ivador'?

I believe you can strengthen the bodies ability to deal with the invador.

Time and place-if my body is weak I may need to get drugs that reak havoc in my body. If my body is strong I may not need to.

Since the early 1900s these ideas have been debated. I am not trying to prove things. I am trying to say that theree is more than one view (isn't there always) and many people don't really even see that there maybe another way of looking at things.

Maybe one is right

More likely I would think they both have some 'right' and 'wrong'.

Is there one way to kick 'right'?? Some may say so.

Its interesting that the fact is a very large amount of deaths occur at the hands of the docs we trust.

Don't you find the numbers alarmingly high?

Don't you see a problem.

We all went some what off track.

Just because there maybe some good doesn't mean bad can be ignored-does it?

Or is it simply an example of our thinking. Just go to the doc and do what he says. They are all knowing and are the gardians of our health. Yes yes, swallow a pill and nod twice. No questions allowed.

I think the paternalistic (doctor knows best) approach to medicine is on its way out with the advent of the internet, widespread information distribution and availability of services and the consumer mentality. But the fact is that no cure is 100% guaranteed, no matter what the approach. In one study it was observed that patients retain about 20% of what the doctor tells them, so first of all, they don't even remember all the instructions, risks, possibe outcomes and counsel they are given. Then, a lot of people think they know better, and will mess around with their dosing, and then blame the doctor when something doesn't work. Or be told that there is a 70% of the treatment working and then be outraged if they are among the 30% it doesn't work for. Or if they develop side effects. There are no magic bullets, and I think this includes 'alternative approaches', which are applicable to a much smaller group of ailments anyway. Are some of their approaches more likely to be more effective for some ailments? I won't say no, but on the other hand, I'd like to see some numbers.

Matt-Its seems there are quite a few people that talk about and document these epidemics fading away BEFORE inoculations. Of course these are indipendant authors and researchers..


Again-med community says one thing. If you believe your source then thats all you'll get.

Pasture himself passed on the germ theory before he died. Some claim he stole his ideas from Bechamp (though leaving out some important details).

Matt-you are right Docs know much much more about what they are taught.

But the healthiest people I know avoid them like the plague.

Time and place-of course. Emergancies etc

Right from day one Medical schools were run by money and drug companies...

Infact history has women as healers.. when Med Schools first started they were not allowed to go.

Science-very few drugs are proven to work scientifically. Some researchers say 10-20%

Yet the Med community says none scientific med can't be practiced.

They take controle of things (like accupuncture in Quebec) over time through strong arming, threats, law making etc untill they can make the money from it.

If you think the system is there for you I pray for your good health.

Me, I'll take health in my own hands and trust systems of prevention and healing of the body. Not a system of sickness/disease and cover ups.

"When you factor in under-reporting, the vaccine may be 100 times more deadly than the disease. Some argue that this is a necessary cost to prevent the return of a disease that would be more deadly than the vaccine.

But when you consider the fact that the vast majority of disease decline this century preceded the widespread use of vaccinations (pertussis mortality declined 79% prior to vaccines), and the fact that rates of disease declines remained virtually unchanged following the introduction of mass immunization, present day vaccine casualties cannot reasonably be explained away as a necessary sacrifice for the benefit of a disease-free society."

What we are told vs history?

On phone with my bud a doc.. :) great guy..

asked him his opinion pharmasuticle companies and influense

"It's a complete for profit market"
-my bud a doc

He says he finds the whole system pretty sad. He talks about how he believes nutrition and life style could and should play such a huge role but people don't know how and he'd like to learn more (as he wasn't taught much) but its hard to find time etc..he's doing residency. (He's in US for refferance.)

We were talking about hydration as well and he was explaining and or making sense of how some of it worked on a deeper level. Though of course they are not taught to see if someone is dehydrated before 'treatment'.

Cool guy, always been into outdoors and activity etc..

I gave him www.mercola.com to check out..

see what he says next time after running across articles like docs being 3rd leading cause of death lol

He was talking about if people were healthy he'd be out of buisness and docs should be there for intervention etc but people just don't know how to be healthy (and in my opinion rely on docs for health-which isn't there job)

Back on the drug companies-he's saying its rare he gets a patient over 70 that isn't on at least 6 drugs!!!!

Who makes the buck??

He likes the quote 'an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure' but how???

"Competition is a sin."
-J.D. Rockefeller

Rockefeller goes way back in money and med institutions

Wouldn't competition in the health world be out crazy. People might have to have results.

Of course nutrition and lifestyle plays a huge role in health but when big macs, frozen burgers, turkey twizzlers, chicken nuggets, fizzy drinks etc cost more than proper food it's no wonder everyone's fat as f8ck. And until they make sitting on your arse and being thick as shit more fun than going for a 5 mile run 3 times a week nobody will exercise.

In the UK we are told about eating '5 portions a day' not smoking, the importance of exercise, how masturbation will turn you blind etc but we still do it.
So what do you do?
You begin sterilising people with an IQ of less than 100 and tracky bottoms tucked in socks! easy.


It's dead right that some doctors make bad decisions and it ends up in people dying but I'm sure if you could work out how many people would be dead with zero medical intervention the greater good argument would prevail.

And you said

"Make sense to me to look to those who are healthy for clues on health."

My health proffesion training so far has been to understand how things work when they're right then go into what happens when they go wrong. I'm sure medical training is much the same.

The medical establishment does a fine job of propping up a social system that's going/gone to shit! It's not the doctors fault as such it's the capitalist pig societies we live in.

See you in the diabetic amputee ward!

Dave (nearly a Podiatrist) :)

6 drugs is nowt mate.

Someone with hypertension - hyperlipidaemia - diabetes - RA will be on about
double that. And that's a fairly common list of complaints.

Dave-but who selects the info the universities study?? :)

"Medical tests take your blood and then fix it with a dye. They freeze the blood in a fixed state. The germs therein are frozen in time. This is not real life. Germs change, blood moves; life is a process, not a fixed state.

It was Bechamp who discovered the pleomorphic nature of germs, and later on Bernard described the "milieu" or environment that affected/caused those changes. Bernard is the one responsible for our theories today on pH and how the nature of the microorganisms change as the body moves from an alkaline pH to an acidic pH."


"While Bechamp spent years proving that germs were the consequence of disease and not the cause, Pasteur’s theory was much simpler and highly profitable. It made economic sense. It made money."
-http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/history/biographies/louis_pasteur.htm


-this debate and Pasteurs easily marketable theory (work partially stolen from Bechamp though only in part -according to many) is what our western medicine is largely based on.

Follow the money and see who pays for the schools that teach and train our good docs.

What if thier info, and subsequently ours, is flawed?

History is written by the winners of wars. Is it any diffderent in other areas?

Is whats the truth or right what surfaces?

I have NOTHING against docs as people. The system, I believe, is greatly flawed.

Its everywhere. Power hungry, greedy, men out for thier own gains. Fight game-sucks but health!!! Thats a big problem.

dave-your ideas on numbers of those saved and those killed by docs probably largely comes from WITHIN the system, no?

Just common sense.

Someone who has hypertension, suffers an angina attack or mild MI will be dead in a very short period without the correct medication. Cancer is the same. It's why we now all live much longer.

University content is largely based on best available evidence (proven theories). It's not perfect, and probably never will be. Research will continue to progress the system albeit very slowly.

I personally think a FULL understanding of the human immune system will yeild cures to all major diseases, but it's about as simple as explaining the meaning of life, god and the universe.

Off to bed....yawn......

I have to disagree with you. Medication is not always needed in all the cases mentioned above.

The institutions with 'proven' info are funded by the drug companies.

You are saying that yes we need to give drugs or else.

Thats a product of our systems teachings in my opinion.

I'm not hear to debate what is believed by the majority. I'm saying there is alot of evidance that leads different routes.

Blindly believing in the system (which if you look around and look at history you'll see is failing horribly) is a mistake IMO

We're all products of our learning... but who are we learning from?

We all hold our ideas tight but where do they really come from?

Maybe judging a system from the outside with an 'empty glass' be less tainted a result than looking out and saying "no sorry you're wrong as my teachings say other wise."

The issue you have with doctor falibility seems a bit harsh. Yes doctors can hold your life in their hands but their still human. I bet you have made mistakes before, im sure your mechanic has stuffed up before, your trainer has said left hook and held up the wrong pad thats called human error. Ask your average GP what they see each day. Its probably a fat old fucker with a smoke in their mouth and a burger in their hand saying im more tired than i used to be and my chest hurts. Once again i dont know what its like where you live but no australian can seriously claim they dont have a basic idea of healthy eating and exercise requirements. Thats BS. The people who parade through GP offices on a regular basis do not want to do the preventative work, they want the pills and the sick note for work. Wouldnt you become jaded? I think the problem lies with people wanting the quick fix and the easy way out. You can get your home delivered pizza and your liposuction to suck it back off your gut. Medicine is a comodity not a calling. The market provides joe average with what he wants or the market folds. This leaves an opening for the alternate systems. What Chek is plugging and probably charging heaps to reveal is just his view of "the right way". The problem with both "western" and "alternate" medicine is that they both spawn closed minded view points. Both preventative medicine and pharmacology have their place in the scheme of health. If a person truely wants to work on their health rather than just cure their illnesses then they can find the information they need from traditional or alternate health care. Quite frankly i think Chek sounds like another place thats cashing in on the medicine backlash rather than some holy grail of health. My vote goes to common sense. Dont eat crap all the time, exercise regularly ie put in the maintenance and your immune system should do its job the way its supposed to. But if i break a bone or some part of me starts failing im going to visit the guy who spent 8 years studying the human body and ask him to fix it. Im not going to refuse to send my car to the mechanic because hes "part of the system" and im not going to refuse to see a doctor who has spent years studying information that has been tried and peer reviewed. It all reeks of conspiracy theory to me the whole "the systems out to screw me" idea.

Many docs are great people. I'm saying the system is greatly flawed. Its huge buisness and docs get taught what others choose.

Actually its very clear to me that the system is screwed.

Its funny that the sheep (I mean the norm) don't see anything scary about the figures. The arguements are for docs.

If Chiropractors killed half that number there would be none! But you see, just like ciggerettes being good for your health (people use to believe that) the same people have promoted the medical system and medications for many years.

If everyone was healthy what would happen???

The more are sick, what happens??

Follow the money.

Every system has its flaws what im talking about is the baby with the bathwater approach. Medicine is a market it provides what the customer wants or it fails. The flaw lies with what the customers want not with the people who provide the service. If a doctor refuses to operate on a obese person because of possible complications with the anasthetic theres another doctor out there who will. If the market for chiropractors was as big as it is for doctors there probably would be an uproar over deaths. I cant think of too many life threatening situations a chiropractor would be working with! Theres no denying the figures are scary, so is the number of road fatalities,teenage pregnancies, and crime rates. The point i possibly didnt make well is that people should be taking a more common sense, proactive approach to their own bodies. Mabey people should be looking at what their doing to stuff their bodies up not blaming "the system" for failing to fix up their stuffed up bodies. Your doctor or chiropractor or even your trainer cant be with you 24/7 to make you do the right thing. People make choices about their bodies and their lives and if someone isnt prepared to put in their share of the work no doctor or alternate practitioner can help them. What im suggesting is people need to realise that the resposibility is theirs not go winging its not fair why am i sick all the time. Theres no doubt that a whole lot of complete BS has been marketed in the name of health (smokes etc)so the problem seems to be education in general rather than just medicine. If someone is so gullible that they are prepared to belive everything put out there they have a problem, some people are prepared to believe any crap your prepared to tell them. More fool them. If you take the time to find a good doctor and bother to ask them to explain why they prescribe meds and what causes your illness then they can be fantastic. There are alot of sheep out there but holding the same opinion of others doesnt mean you havent thought about the underlying causes and reasons for why things are the way they are. Your absolutly right follow the money! right back to the same lazy bastards who blame someone else for everything else that goes wrong in their lives. No hard feelings i hope. I think its fantastic that your health is important to you and your prepared to get as much info as you can from as many sources as possible, i just feel the problem lies with other people not being prepared to do the same thing rather than the system. Its not the system thats the problem its the people who use it and expect someone else to have all the answers. The responsibility lies with the individual.

supply and demand-I totally agree. It is up to US.

However the system isn't just flawed its F&*$ed :)

again time and place. We're not talking about a car accident and operating when nessasary. We're talking the approach to degenerative disease, pain, discomfot and health etc

There are many great doctors. Docs are needed. But they should be there for intervention when nessasary and for consultation on health and well being. Not horing whatever the next John wants. Thats malpractice regardless of supply and demand.

However thats there training and they aren't to be overly blamed. I'm trying to raise awareness of the sit. Not attack docs.

By the way, did you know life expectancy of docs is 10years less than the norm.

I'll look to people with health and who study how to be healthy not just studying sickness.

Health flurishes in the right enviroment. Its not a matter of attacking the 'germ' but making the body a place that promotes health and keeps 'germs' in controle.

You know that when you are weak and not healthy (the enviroment) your body sends out signals to call in clean up crews (germs etc)

just like plants 'talk' with bugs (parasites). Weak sickly plant gets infested (oh, is that why we need to spray toxic chemicals like pesticides on them??) Healthy plants don't have that prob.

Its well researched and documented.

However if you just bow down to what you taught this will sound like hourse shit.

If you do some looking and research of your own, you may be surprised.

Medicine is NOT about health in the western world. Never has been.

Infact its often deliberatly stepped in healths way.

HUGE HUGE buisness

in regardes to selling smokes as healthy and good for you. You missed the point. The same people that do that promote the medical system the medical drugs. The point is people believed smoking was good for them. The point is the system is promoted and run as a buisness and the bottom line is the dollar $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

The point is medical drugs are marketed the same way as coke and Mcdonalds and the way smokes were once.

Its entered the schools its what is taught.

Number type of drug in US sold. Anti-inflammatory. Most prescription drugs creat inflammation...including many inflamatories. hhmmmm interesting.

How does a drug that covers symptoms lead to a healther being? It doesn't.

I know many people who's lives improved by stopping taking there prescriptions (not suggesting people do this-depending on drug and issues etc-talk to an expert but choose your 'expert' carefully).

They even give you free med drugs now to try...

85% of US adult population is on at least one prescription drug. Tell me thats not HUGE money.

Read the side effects on med drugs and add them up. You need more med drugs to deal with that.

Very self serving.

-azy bastards at home?...maybe they have been given toomany med drugs, eating too many poisons that was added to there food, breathed in too much pollution, not geting any real food (dead processed garbage), too much exposure to EMFs etc, dehydrated. Careful on judging. Its hard to know whos lazy when we believe in poisons to fix us and in fast food to feed us.

azy=lazy

'USA TODAY analyzed financial conflicts of interest on the 18 expert advisory committees established by the Food and Drug Administration's Center for Drug Evaluation and Research. These committees vote on whether new drugs should be approved and what regulations should govern the drug approval process. The newspaper created a database of financial conflicts disclosed at all 159 advisory committee meetings from Jan. 1, 1998, through June 30, 2000. About 250 members appeared 1,620 times during those meetings.

As required by law, FDA advisory committees disclose when members have a financial interest in the subject of the meeting. Financial interest is defined in FDA regulations "as the potential for gain or loss as a result of government action on a particular matter."'

hmmmm

http://www.mercola.com/2000/oct/1/fda_drug_approvals.htm

Drug-Company Influence on Medical Education in the USA

It begins on the first day of medical school and lasts through to retirement, and it is the only reliable "cradle to grave" benefit that doctors can truly count on any more. Even in this era of medical-ledger watching world wide, there is little evidence to expect it will ever end. In fact, it may even be growing.

It starts slowly and insidiously, like an addiction, and can end up influencing the very nature of medical decision-making and practice. It first appears harmless enough: a textbook here, a penlight there, and progresses to stethoscopes and black bags, until eventually come nights "on the town" at academic conventions and all-expenses paid "educational symposia" in lovely locales.

Attempts to influence the judgment of doctors by commercial interests serving the medical-industrial complex are nothing if not thorough. Unfortunately, they seem to work. Studies have shown that prescribing patterns are influenced by advertising and other marketing activities. If this were not the case, why would industry spend hundreds of millions of dollars on promotion?

Advertising sustains industry, and no industry, not even the medical one, can avoid its reach. So it is not the fact of marketing that is in question here. It is the form in which it comes. Surely, no one would mistake a pen with a corporate logo as anything but promotion. Nor would anyone suggest that a stuffed animal with a brand-named drug stitched to its fur is of great medical value. But when the line between medical education and advertising or marketing is blurred, there is a problem.

A recent study completed by the US watchdog Public Citizen documents the relation between medical education activities, the pharmaceutical industry, and medical education services suppliers (MESS), which are private businesses that provide medical education.

The study stems from survey data published in the December, 1999, issue of Medical Marketing & Media, an industry periodical. MM & M surveyed 123 MESS about their 1998 and 1999 operations. 80 returned questionnaires. In summary, the data suggest that supplying medical education can, in this form, be a very lucrative exercise, whose most consistent client is the pharmaceutical industry.

What is of most concern here is the fact that so much continuing medical education comes through the filter of industry. To ensure the integrity, and the appearance of integrity, of the process of learning in medicine, physicians should do more to pay for CME themselves, just as many other professionals have to do.

Lancet September 2, 2000; 356: 781.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Mercola's CommentS:

Unless we are able to break the connection to drug support of medicine we are not likely to see much of a shift in the traditional paradigm. It is a very subtle pernicious and persistent influence that is very difficult to break out of. In retrospect I believe I was "brainwashed" in medical school and it took me nearly five years to break out of that mold, despite the fact that I was resistant to it going in.

Lancet is a very respectable source

Or you could say its all a smoke screen and that its a big conspirasy theory and that when you look around there is good health everywhere.

No a buisness certainly wouldn't want to put profit before peoples wellfare.

Companies are charged billions a year in fines for breaking the law. If the fine is a million and they stand to make a billion...welll who wouldn't break the law?

Or we can say yes sir in school. Learn from TV. An be like Oliver Twist and ask for more.

Look at the source..

The 'talking plants thing'

checked it out and memory wasn't as good...

K, the plants talk to bugs through chemical messages. Lets say the plant gets a parrasite, it sends out a signal to a type of bug to come. That bug comes and eats the parasite.

Cool huh. This was brand new knowlage in 2002. It shows how little we know of nature.

microorganisms, 85% less in commercially farmed soil, actually feed plants. And some eat parasites. They send something inside that eats them from the inside.

-"You Are Waht You Eat" CHEK Inst.

The body works in a similar way. When weak and disrupted it does call out.. Thats when sickness really comes. germs.viruses clean up the decay.

Killing them doesn't solve the prob (like my friends dad whos cancer jsut came back).

Just look at the numbers, look at the money and look how buisness works. Its BUISNESS!!!!!!!!!

Doctors, many of whom are wonderful people, are taught and trained and courted by the buisnesses that are out, like any other, to make a buck.

If you research this and come to the conclusion that all is kosher then fine. But to blindly hold up the powers that be as our guides in life and health is a little scary.

IMO

More athletes today are dieing than ever before... hmmmm

http://message.axkickboxing.com/index.phtml?action=dispthread&topic=18118&junk=1140218544.21723

this thread has a link to an article that may be worth a read. The content of which relates to our unquestioning belief in our medical community.

In Australia there is a promotion in pharmacies where if you buy some over the counter weight loss drug you can enter a competition to win a weight loss coach for a year. HAHAHAHAHAHA It doesnt take a Rhodes scholar to see the money behind that one. Im pretty lucky my GP is not really into drugs that much. When i went to thailand he wouldnt give me malaria tablets because they would stuff up my gut balance. He told me malaria wouldnt do me any harm and if i got it i would have developed an imunity for next time. I think he may take his anti drug stance a touch too far. He fired off a letter to my dentist when i told him i had a needle for a filling. My dentist sent one back inviting him to drill on someones nerves when they are able to feel it and not get mike tyson'd. RE: whos lazy? I dont know what happens in other parts of the world but there is tv adds by the australian government telling people you need 1hr of exercise a day, tv adds that tell you take away should only be eaten once a week and phsical education is compulsary in all schools. All school students are taught about vitamin requirements and getting a balanced diet. No school shop is allowed to carry foods that have more than a recomended amount of fat or sugar. Supermarkets have signs up saying you need 5 serves of fruit and veg a day and all packaged food is labled with its nutritional values. No australian can claim ignorance about basic health requirements. Medications are a different issue. As far as i know the health authorities are trying to restrict the number of antibiotics prescribed, and mental health drugs esp ritalin and prozac are being closely monitored for over prescription. Information technology is a compulsary subject for all high school students so the latest generation cant claim they dont know how to look for or access alternate information, it is an educational requirement. I dont feel that ignorance is a legitimate excuse for bad health, at least here anyway.

On the topic of personal responsibility this was in the paper the other day. Some teenagers were driving along throwing eggs at pedestrians, on guy walking along got hit so he picked up a can of drink and threw it at the car. The teenagers turned around and got out of the car and beat him to death. In court the teenager claimed that the guy hit him first so its not his fault the guy died!!! I know its a bit off the topic but does that sound like BS to anyone else. Someone is minding their own business on the street when they get stuff thrown at them, they retaliate so a group of kids comes at them en-mass. So what if he hit them first, when a group of people comes at you to pick a fight whos not going to defend themselves asap. Its pretty pathetic that some people think they can do what they like such as throw eggs at people and not be held accountable for what follows. The kid seriously claimed that the pedestrian was killed in self defense, more like his self defense didnt work against a bunch of kids who think they can do what they like. They blame the dead man because it doesnt occur to them that they could be in the wrong or that someone might say no dont treat me like that you little shite. Sorry very off the topic of doctors.

Wow-you guys have it good there!!!! Here is horrible.

Maybe I should say US docs but then it might get pollitical..

I don't really know the world scene as well as I know Canada and US. Not that I know them that well (and Britain isn't much better I think).

I do know that Oz has its problems too.

I guess this being a site with a world wide group I should be clearer.

Here the gouvernment kneels down to the money (infact I think they come wearing knee pads).

4 basic food groups-comes from the industries not the health experts but is taught in school. I found out yesterday they still do it!!!!

Then the US came out with the food pyramid. This was after many years of complaints by scientist and doctors about the 4 basic food groups. Finally when the gov started to listen the food lobbies (huge money) freaked!!! They put out a mix of what the docs/scientists wanted and what the food lobbies wanted.

At the time the grain lobbies had the strength wow the pyramid had grains as the base for a healthy diet.

Then I'm at a course and I'm told that the grain lobbies had lost strength and the dairy lobbies gained strength. I raised my hand and asked if it was likely the recommendations on diet would change. They thoguht so.

A few months later in the newspaper there were new US dietary guidelines.
Dairy was up and grains had dropped.

The point is the pharm lobbies etc are huge too and if anyone thinks that they are in it for your well being you are sadly mistaken.

Good to hear its not as bad there.

But here-there are alot of deaths and health issues, I mean ALOT, related to , added to, encouraged by etc etc the systems that are suppose to be there to help us...or we think thats why they're there.

To be fair our government is doing a fair bit to encourage health but australia is still up there with the worst of them in terms of obesity and preventative medical problems. Australia used to be a bit of a sporting nation and now we are somewhere in the top 10 of weight related problems. I suppose this hurt someone high ups view of how things should be, so thats where they are putting a fair bit of money at the moment. Its a slow change but mabey getting health info out there will show some positive changes across the population in the next 10 years. The major positive is that here you can say the sky is blue and someones going to tell you your wrong so while there is BS out there i think its more publicly and openly debated. A government body released a moderatley high protien diet book recently and almost immediatly the newspapers printed articles about some private funding provided for the research from a meat company and nutritionist wrote in articles slamming every aspect of it. Anyone who reads the paper would have heard just about every opinion out there on what you should be eating.Some people may feel its disrespectful to openly question people but here its fairly normal. Mabey thats where these problems start, people not questioning the info out there or only seeing what they want to see. Pride can be a fantastic motivator or better put hurt pride can. For years your average australian thought they were pretty fit and healthy only to find they were a nation of fatties and heart attacks waiting to happen. Mabey the same approach would work with medications. Tell them all they are a bunch of legalised junkies, the same as a guy in a gutter with a needle in his arm. Then mabey 10 years from now we will see an improvement in that too.

Coming from Australia, we have a great health care system that is easily accessible, unlike the UK (not sure of the US).

Having had a few 'nasty' bugs (some simultaneously) and a lot of injuries (numerous wrist fractures etc), I can safely say that I dont know what I would have done if my Doc had not helped me and put me back together so many times. Mind you, he is fighter orientated which really helps his understanding of injuries/issues, the need to keep moving, lose weight and pain management etc.

Saying that, not everything that has befallen me has been treatable via Western medicine and I have sought treatment elsewhere. Chinese herbs, acupuncture and complementary medicine have all been a great help where Western medicine hadsfailed.

Basically....I would trust my Doc in Aus, I will ONLY go to my doc here (UK) when there is NO other choice and Docs CANT fix EVERYTHING the Western Way!

As usual, just my opinion :-)

Again I'm not knocking docs-I just think the system is controled by money.

bugs-so you got antibiotics? Have you ever heard of a doc telling you that if you take antibiotics that you will need to replace the good bacteria that they kill? I mean this is well known science and the good bacteria play a huge part in health. I've never heard of a doc bringing this up or knowing good ways how to.

That leads to many issuse you'll have to go back to doc for later.

Gotta run-getting teetch pulled (thats a doc too :P)

Its how we're programed...

I had two wisdom teeth removed Mon. Suppose to be 4 but 1 is close to a nerve (gonna leave for now) and 1 we'll do soon..

They wanted me to have an antanxiety drug. I passed. The receptionist, after checking to see if I could do that, certainly said she thought it was a good idea to take. Now many a place will put you under..

With the freezing I felt no pain in my mouth at all...

Then came the after med. Now this place is good. I chose my dentist carefully and drive 1.5hrs to go.

Anyway they didn't say IF you need some pain relief then take UPTO x amount as NEEDED no more than x times a day.

No what was said was take x amount x times period.

There is no question that med drugs etc do damage to the body. There is sometimes a time and place but the system and ourselves, are not there about health, we're there to cover up and get on with our day.

I took nothing, some may have it worse and some may have it better. If it had gotten worse I may have.

Point being we don't need to automatically down the poison. And its sad that they automatically encourage it.

My friend boke his leg and dislocated his ankle. They wanted to put something in the IV. He wanted to know what it was. They wouldn't say and kept trying to put it in. He kept refusing. Finally they got a doc and he finally said what it was. My bud said no (it was a strong drug) finally they let him be. He was fine.

In fact I'm not sure he even took any of the med drugs for the pain at all even after op and going home e.g. T-3s etc

Again. I'm not saying its for everyone. I'm showing how its pushed, forced and often unessasary.

Now these are nessasary situations..

Arthritis meds increase the rate of disease!!! They cover up the bodies sigals that something is wrong. this is just one example.

Many of these drugs lead to inflamation...which leads to anti-inflamatories..the number 1 selling med drug..hmmmm

The system, in N. America and I don't think much of Europe is fare behind. Is backed and run by buisnesses with an interest...that interest is not in your health. Its in money. Now the sicker you are and the more drugs you 'need' the more money they make...

I don't think our 'health care' system should be controled by those who profit from our sickness. Isn't that a conflict of interest?

Again i have nothing against Docs as people. The system and the training is flawed.

I look to healthy people for my health. How healthy is your doc? I haven't been impressed with most of them health wise, not at all.

They also study sickness to 'help' you.

Thats like learning from the worst fighters how to fight. I'd look to the best.

If you need a Naturapath in the Vancouver area let me know. My sister practces out there and she is the best. Very knowledgable in alternatine medicines as well. She has studied here, Central America and India. Herbaligist too.

I think a good Naturapath can be great!

"DR .MERCOLA'S COMMENT:

Folks, this is what they call a "Landmark Article". Only several ones like this are published every year. One of the major reasons it is so huge as that it is published in JAMA which is the largest and one of the most respected medical journals in the entire world."

-http://www.mercola.com/2000/jul/30/doctors_death.htm Dr Mercola

Its interesting the responses and flack and the unquestionnig faith we have in our devine, all powerful medical system.

This article is from JAMA "one of the most respected medical journals in the entire world."


Has anyone whos strongly deffending docs actually read the article? Do you disagree with it? Or are you blindly protecting our great healers and thier magic potions?

There is an interesting read on Vioxx by David J. Graham, MD, MPH. Associate Director for Science and Medicine in FDA’s Office of Drug Safety. Straight from a guy in the FDA

"The response from senior management in my Office, the Office of Drug Safety, was equally stressful. I was pressured to change my conclusions and recommendations, and basically threatened that if I did not change them, I would not be permitted to present the paper at the conference. One Drug Safety manager recommended that I should be barred from presenting the poster at the meeting, and also noted that Merck needed to know our study results."

http://www.mercola.com/2005/mar/2/david_graham_testimonial.htm

Now where did we get our Vioxx from, through our docs of course. They are taught to give us these drugs.

http://www.mercola.com/2004/jul/7/healthcare_death.htm

Modern Health Care System is the Leading Cause of Death, Part I
-By Gary Null PhD, Carolyn Dean MD ND, Martin Feldman MD, Debora Rasio MD, Dorothy Smith PhD

interesting title.

friend of mine was pushed in to getting her apendix out. Luckily she gave my training partner a call and in turn made a call to someone a little more knowlageable.

Basically the doc said she needed them out and to come back to check again and they'd get her straight in.

The info he got was do not have the surgery without a catscan first.

She went back and insisted on a catscan. He refused so her Mum said to go to another doc.

She went to another doc who actually sent her for some tests. (blood work etc)
The results-didn't need the op!

Bet she's glad that someone doesn't blindly follow our all knowing medical heros.

I hear many stories like this too

My dad is actually missing his splean. It was mantioned in one op to be there and doing fine. Later in ops it wasn't mentioned and blood work and ultra sounds say its not there any more.....

There are GOOD docs and bad docs like there are in anything.'

However, thier training is pretty narrow minded and much of it is pushing pills. The studies and tests on the pills come from the sellers so.....

Take for example drug testing.

In general meds are tested on men NOT women.

See women are a little harder to work with since they have thier monthly cycles and hormone levels etc change accordingly.

Of course x amount y drug
taken near the end, middle, or beggining of the cycle can very well have different effets. It could be too much at times and too little at others (never mind often enough they are simple symptom coverers -symptom comes from the word signal -greek I think).

So quite logically they make it all easier by testing on men.

Then of course give them to women too. Never mind the testing on men is often not done well.

On the same thought path way we all have cycles. In fact most symptoms and even heart attacks happen at certain times of the day. Asthma attacks etc

our daily rythems have highes and lows of different hormones like cortisol and melatonin for example.

a med taken at supper and breaky can have vastly different effects.

How many times have you read in the paper about x drug taken off the market?

The drug companies job is to sell a product, make profit. Legally it is too!!

Not to help you or worry about your well being.

these industries DO have big influence on the med universities and billions is spent wining and dining your doc and mine to get them to use each companies magic pills (warning-may cause worse things than you have but we have pills for that too)

106,000 ---non-error, negative effects of drugs

heres a personal story that happened to me this last week..

I had a 3rd wisdom tooth pulled on mon afternoon. It was growing sideways and was underneath the gum line. I had had two top ones pulled a month before and didn't even take a single tylenol etc after..this one however was much more serious and that same day I started taking extra strength tylenol (sadly I still am)

Anyway wed comes along and I was having a rough time coping so i got my T3 prescription filled that they'd given me along with the anitbiotics prescription etc (another story lol). I took one that afternoon and then two before bed (got to sleep about 10pm). Its 1-2 every 4hrs or something like that I think. This was only my second and third..

I woke up at 10:40pm with abit or an upset stomach. Within minuits I was doubled over, litterally, in pain. I didn't know if I had to go to the bathroom or what. Then I got that feeling you get before passing out..

I have passed out a couple times and come close a couple times and I am not talking simply light headed when standing up kind of thing.

I was on my knees in the hall way with my head on the ground fighting with all my might to stay conscious, sweating like crazy and quite out of it. I don't know how long it lasted but i made a couple barely understadable phone calls saying something like might pass out if you don't here from me in 30min come get me.

Finnally it eased and I finnally got back to bed.

Stupid me, but give me a break as I'm on drugs and in pain, I knida thought it was something else so later when they wore off some and the pain was getting worse and keeping me from sleeping again I took one more T3.. later I woke with the same, though not so serious effects. Again I ended up in my hallway,, this time lieing down, the pain too much to put my head down (tooth) so I propped it sideways on a thing of toilet paper and lay there till I felt i could get up and go back to bed without passing out.. starting to freeze in the process...

I obviously don't do well on codene (spel?) in the T3s

I talked to the dentist (not the specialist that took it out) and the scariest thing of it all they new it was the T3s, it seemed normal and they had no concern about it. Looking into T3s at the pharma the head guy had the same reaction... oh yeah thats normal kind of thing...

These symptoms are signals to other stuff going on in the body.. what you experiance isn't all the damage being done.

Of course there is a time and place (I am still taking somethig for the pain) but man.

I talked to a few friends and here are some other stories I got on T3s

no feeling in hands
going crazy
screaming
on a high

This is in about a day of mentioning my experiance to friends.

I am also reading "Biochemical Individuality" Roger Williams (I think)

The different effects of different drugs and substances etc on each person is huge!!!!

Basically its a guess what will happen.. A very interesting read for anyone who thinks we're all the same (like some think I think)

I almost don't want to put this up and I am NOT suggesting it to anyone.

I had a wisdom tooth (impacted, stitches etc) removed resently. I was given a prescription for T3s (talked about above I think), antibiotics and some antibacterial thing from the specialist.

I asked if I had to take. I was told yes. I asked my dentist too and he also said I should.

I decided not to. I got oil of oregano, grapefruit seed extract and later oil of cloves was added. I swished my mouth with those (prob less than I should) and also with sea salt and water.

Now I would not have done this had I not been building my health and immune system and living like I do. Also taking the high quality probiotic (Primal Deffense) and things that help build immune system like oraganic extra virgin coconut oil (antibacterial as well) etc

I did not get infected. Hense I did not need the antibiotics which do loads of damage.

I am NOT saying do this.

You may say that I was lucky. You maybe right...or not.

http://www.mercola.com/townofallopath/index.htm

funny and spot on (a cartoon video)

We were worse then or now? Are we improving or degenerating?



"In the US, one person in three suffers from allergies, one in 10 will have ulcers and one in five is mentally ill. Every year a quarter of a million infants are born with a birth defect who then undergo expensive surgery or are hidden away in institutions. Other degenerative diseases – arthritis, multiple sclerosis, digestive disorders, diabetes, osteoporosis, Alzheimer’s, epilepsy and chronic fatigue – afflict a significant majority of US citizens. And learning disabilities such as dyslexia and hyperactivity make life miserable for 7 million young people and their parents. These diseases were extremely rare only a generation or two ago. Today, chronic illness afflicts nearly half of all Americans and causes three out of four deaths in the US. Most tragically, these diseases, formerly experienced only by the very old, now strike children and those in the prime of life. We have almost forgotten that our natural state is one of balance, wholeness and vitality."

Nasty, Brutish & Short
-Sally Fallon
http://www.theecologist.org/archive_detail.asp?content_id=354
theecologist.org

Sounds like you have a bad reaction to T3. Don't take them anymore. You wouldn't believe how commonly people are allergic to T3, codeine, penicillin, tetracycline, and sulfa drugs.
I think it's all the pollutants in the environment and our food that interact with our immune system to make us hypersensitive. On the other hand, we have more medical care and statistical monitoring, so maybe it's just people are living longer and being cared for better that is causing the increase in morbidity?

I think surviving in the wild is a little different. I also think that many an older person today is kept alive, though maybe not really living.

We are living longer. But that alone doesn't mean we are living better or healthier.

I'd rather die at 50 and have a healthy happy life than at 70 and have 40 years of sickness. Maybe I'm strange. What kind of quality is it when you're in pain all the time or are taking x drug to get by? The links between physical health and mental/emotional/spiritual are huge. Tell me you don't feel worse when you are sick? Being healthy means feeling better. (don't confuse fitness with health)


T3s-or maybe a reaction to the poison of the drug itsels.....just maybe?

I wonder avoiding all the toxins makes you hypersensitive.

Look at some who doesn't drink and someone that drinks all the time. The body will react.

Many people do have issues with codine too of course...

This is because the docs DO NOT know what the effect will be on the body.

Timing makes a differance too (which most don't look at)

Cancer drugs for example work better when giving at certain times of the individuals circadian rythem.

Codine in am and in pm very likely will have different effects.

106,000 ---non-error, negative effects of drugs
Kohn L, ed, Corrigan J, ed, Donaldson M, ed. To Err Is Human: Building a Safer Health System. Washington, DC: National Academy Press; 1999.

NON-Error!! This is normal side effects. This is also in hospitals!!! Add up at home and all the things they call heart attacks...

250,000 deaths a year is a low number. A conservative number.

Yeah some people react poorly to codine... Cause they don't know how any of us will react to most any drug!!!!

These numbers are from the med community!!

But they are docs and our saviors so we must believe....

I don't.

Perhaps it is people who would die earlier anyway that are making up these numbers of ill people... well between choosing to be dead vs. alive and sick is kind of a hard choice (I think it depends on how sick, and how afraid of dying you are).
250, 000 heart attacks? And how many of these were known to be iatrogenic? Are these 250,000 deaths that would not have occured without medical "help" :P ? You have to look at these numbers pretty carefully.

Obviously drugs have bad side effects, and thus the pros have to weighed vs. the cons. The more serious your problem, the more likely it's worth to take the medicine, all things considered.

Heart attacks. Not a prob if you live healthy. At least not at these large sacale.


the 250,000 is the total of deaths caused by docs according the the JAMA article.

Also regarding heart attacks. When there is a heart attack no one looks at all the med drugs the person was on or at the possible side effects. Many heart atacks in can be due to the meds themselves. Not somehting thats ever looked at or mentioned in the death reports.

Have you looked at some of the possible side effects?? They don't when someone dies.

Westen Med can be helpful when you f@%$*& up or some accidents. But it also f@%$* you up.

Now this is US figures etc and N America is worse than much of the world. Britian has loads of probs too.

But research from Europe is generally better (less biased) than N america.

106,000 ---non-error, negative effects of drugs
Kohn L, ed, Corrigan J, ed, Donaldson M, ed. To Err Is Human: Building a Safer Health System. Washington, DC: National Academy Press; 1999.

Do you get what this above statement says?

these are deaths in hospitals from med drugs... what about the ones people take home? (that get called heart attacks etc)

thats why I say these figues are low and they are way too bloody high to justify.

www.mercola.com
wwwchekinstitute.com

its on both these sights on Dr Mercolas site there is also one on the health care system. Being number 1 cause of death I think it was.

take a read-it comes from the med establishment not some airy fairy pray to trees guys (they might have jumped on it lol) but this comes from with-in.

http://www.mercola.com/2000/jul/30/doctors_death.htm

http://www.mercola.com/2004/jul/7/healthcare_death.htm

read it...

the world is not flat and the med system isn't thier for your health (at least in N America)

Any system that makes money on sickness should be looked into I think.

Another thing that can influence the stats is that an increasing number of people are living to adulthood. Premi children can be kept alive even when their systems are not fully developed. These kids reach adulthood with persistant medical issues, previously a child born with a heart problem would die, now they are generally able to keep them alive but not able to give them complete health. This is especially true with children born with severe disabilities like cerebral palsy, or victims of severe accidents. They may be alive and there-fore included in statistics, but they will suffer from proportionatly larger numbers of illnesses. Medical intervention can give them life but is not yet at the stage where quality of life can be achieved on a regular basis. By being able to save the lives of people who would otherwise not live, the medical system increases the number of people likely to become dependant upon the medical system. Genes or conditions that are detrimental to the health of a person can now be passed on because medicine allows these people to live long enough to re-produce. To be human and to believe in the right to life of other people necessitates that people are not just left to die because they are "genetically weak". It follows that a system needs to be in place to care for those people whos bodys do not function as well, and as medicine advances and more lives can be saved, the gap between saving lives and quality of life will widen. They dont always produce the best answer but hospitals have ethics comittees who evaluate the extreme cases and decide whether some procedures will negate the quality of life to the degree that it is preferable to let nature take its course. The range of illnesses and diseases that doctors face these days is far beyond those experienced 100 or even 20 yrs ago. Doctors should in theory focus on health and what promotes health, but the level of illness and disease is so high that it seems the system is just trying to stem the tide and keep its head above water. It would be great if you only needed to promote health but many many people are beyond that point and need to control or eradicate the negatives first before they can actively work towards health. A diabetic can do alot to promote their health with diet and exercise, but a juvenile diabetic who suffers from severe hypos can not work with their environment without first controlling their insulin to some degree with medicine. The medical system is full of stuff ups but you fail to mention some of the truely fantastic achievements it has made. You can be mauled by a shark and live, you can be born with a hole in your heart and it can in some cases be fixed, a child does not have to die because the umbilical cord is around their neck. Doctors stuff up and the system fails alot of people, but mabey people are asking too much of medicine. It is human trial and error with politics and money thrown into the mix, and often indaequate training and supervision, long hours, high stress and pressure from frightend people wanting instant answers and instant cures. Stomach stapeling is a shocking idea, why is medicine asked to fix over eating? If an emotional problem is causing the eating why arent they in therapy? What examples are peole setting for their children that they dont know when to stop eating or what to eat? We sue McDonalds for making us fat, we complain that teachers dont teach our children about nutrition and we ask doctors to suck out the donuts and cut our stomachs in half to prevent us doing it again! Where is the sense in that? To blame the incorrectly used medical resources and the overstretched education system is a convenient cop-out for people who dont want to put in the work for their own health and who cant be bothered teaching their children how to make their health a priority. If you eat well, get enough exercise and take care of your mental health you dont need to be at the doctor asking for drugs. The medical system needs alot of work but the thing that needs to be worked on more urgently is peoples attitude towards their bodies and their belief that medicine or drugs can repair all the damage they do to themselves. 250,000 is alot of deaths due to doctors but they were under the care of a doctor because they were not all that healthy in the first place. Would they have died anyway without medical intervention? Would they have died if they practiced a healthy lifestyle, their doctor was paid to see them for more than 15mins, the doctor in the hospital got a proper internship and wasnt asked to do 12hr shifts in an emergency ward that didnt have enough beds or nurses, and the wards were not already full of people who are there not because of an accident or unfortunate illness but because they dont look after themselves? The stats can be pretty shocking but the system cant be fixed without first looking at why the problems exist not just the number of problems.

There is loads of evidance to the health of kids being born and the health of parents. Ask any animal breader...

So you have a point but why are some of the kids so sick to start?

But some great points. I do agree with much stated.

I am NOT against docs or medicine. I DO think that there needs to be a HUGE overhall and closer look.

There IS a time and place and need for med drugs and ops etc. Docs should have a place in our system. But western med is not about health and often it does cause the opposite.

One prob is that it is all funded and backed and controled by buisness.

I went rock climbing with a US M.D. the other day. He is a really great guy. He really cares about people and health.

I'm not against docs. But the blind asumption and trust in the system and the system that trained them gets us into trouble.

We all need to be responsible for our health.

Eating sugar and bonbons and going to doc for pills when ill won't get you a healthy life.

I think blaming goes a short ways too. Its up to us. The thing is most people don't know whats going on.

Awareness must always come before deliberate change, no?

some more to my antibiotic story and wisdom tooth...

Had an impacked wisdom tooth pulled, stitches etc. The whole nine yards.

Was prescribed the antibiotics in case...well in case, I believe, is for the unhealthy whos bodies don't function. I believed my body could handle and deal with bacteria...

I did not get an infection...there is more

I few days after it was out I talked to my dentist (not specialist). I told him I was not on the antibiotics..though he wanted me to take as well i didn't.

He called back that evening. After talking with his sis (they prqactice together) and going over files, one obviously being mine). She said that the graft they put in, that the bone was suppose to greow over, wouldn't work unless I took the antibiotics.

I think its to do with bacteria getting in the way...

I still didn't take.

I went in today about a month later to check. The specialist asked if I'd taken antibiotics. I said no... we took and x-ray and a look and everything is just fine.

I DO NOT recommend this!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just saying if a little time an money was put into health and not researching potential med drugs and other 'treatments' that make buisnesses BIG money. Then we wouldn't need all the med drugs etc

IMO

maybe I was just lucky... I htink I was lucky that I didn't get stuck with antibiotics

http://www.mercola.com/2006/may/18/ketek_why_did_the_fda_approve_this_deadly_antibiotic.htm

another wonderful antibiotic out there for your health....???

"When the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and every major medical journal in the United States lies about the simple statistics of cancer death rates, it’s clear that very powerful and dangerous social forces are operating."

article called Breast Cancer on Ray Peats site
http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/breastcancer.shtml
www.raypeat.com

This guy doesn't sell anything or represent anyone. He just does research.

http://www.mercola.com/2006/may/27/another_antibiotic_exits_the_consumer_marketplace.htm

"Another Antibiotic Bites the Dust"

article includes 16 drugs that were pulled from the market and what damage they did.Drugs get pulled when they are proven to do some serious harm...


By law (in US) share holders come before customer.

It makes more money to get a new drug on the market and have to pull later..even if it kills!!

http://www.mercola.com/2006/may/27/what_happened_to_that_imaginary_avian_flu_epidemic.htm

"What Happened to That Imaginary Bird Flu Epidemic?"

"...taking worthless, health-harming drugs and vaccines and controlling the types of chicken you have access to."

not totally on the same topic but along the same lines... You know how much money they make on shit like this?

Some will sat conspirosy theory but take a look. There is loads of evidence that our health is not the main goal here.

http://www.mercola.com/2006/jun/3/most_drugs_for_rheumatoid_arthritis_are_too_dangerous_to_use.htm

some more on med drugs

I wish I could remmeber the source but I like this quote

"Why are we treating symptoms of starvation with toxins?"

http://www.mercola.com/dvd/prescription_for_disaster.htm

This has a link for a trailer of a movie coming out on the drug companies and FDA etc..

Again-I have nthing against docs...its the system they are trained in and have to work in. Many are wonderful people.

http://www.mercola.com/2006/jul/13/the_evil_that_drug_marketers_do.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/28/business/28lunch.html?ei=5088&en=704a144090f77cda&ex=1311739200&adxnnl=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1154219720-ItS3dr2XuUMdUOy0OSAyjw

New York Times article-looks like there are a few docs who agree with the problems with the drug companies and are worthy of some trust. Nice!! It slowly is changing.

http://www.mercola.com/2006/jul/29/more_than_a_third_of_drug_safety_reports_missing_in_action.htm

can't say as much for the FDA though-see what goes on with drug aprovals. At end of short article there is a link to a very long report looking into this with all the details for anyone who is skeptical of anything that suggests the FDA isn't out for our interests first.

Does anyone even know that vioxx killed 60,000 people???

Do you think for a second they thought it was safe when they put it on the market??

Seriously just cause your doc prescribes it doesn't mean its safe.

60,000!!!

http://www.mercola.com/2006/oct/19/new-cancer-drug-costs-more-than-4200-per-dose.htm

Using Drugs Causes 700,000 in U.S. to go to ER Every Year

http://www.mercola.com/2006/oct/31/using-drugs-causes-700000-in-us-to-go-to-er-every-year.htm

ok for anyone that thinks, oh mercola... if you look at the bottom it will give the source. In this case JAMA is one of them. JAMA is one of the top medical journals!

In my opinion Dr Mercola has gone way too commercial. However for info I htink it is still a great site. Regardless you can always look at the source. This is just a collection of info that generally isn't known or believed.

"Federal health officials have refused to put new restrictions on the use of thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative, in vaccines and other medicines."

http://www.mercola.com/2006/nov/7/the-fdas-latest-health-harming-stance-on-mercury.htm

FDA says what meds are ok.. docs generally are going to assume they are safe..

http://www.mercola.com/2006/nov/4/be-very-careful-which-hospital-you-choose.htm

choose your hospital carefully...

An article I saw on my MSN home page...

Seems the news is slowly catching up to whats happening and been warned about for years.

http://healthandfitness.sympatico.msn.ca/The+Superbugs+Are+Here/Fitness/ContentPosting.aspx?isfa=1&newsitemid=33216&feedname=RODALE-PREVENTION&show=False&number=0&showbyline=True&subtitle=&detect=&abc=abc

Super bugs from over use of antibiotics...

If your immune systme is functioning properly you shouldn't hardly ever need antibiotics.

Personally for me I would not expect to have a probelsm if I had a something with e-coli in it.


If you live healthy health improves.

pills and meds do not make a body healthy-though there is sometimes a time and place.

They do weaken the immune system though... nice little circle..

A little look at the drugs you buy from your doc

Sir Richard Sykes is a board member of Rio Tinto which put out huge ass amounts of pollution causing cancer and respitory disease.

He is the chairman of a company (Glaxo) which sells almost 3.2 million pounds of drugs a year aimed at cancer and respitory market.

hmmmm

Donald McHenery sits on Glazo's board which brings in 462million pounds a year from sales of Avandia (type II diabetes treatment)..

oh and he's a director for CocaCola (pop is known to be a huge player in type II diabetes)

hmmmmm

Glaxo also has drugs for you :) for quitting smoking. Derek Bonham sat on Glaxo's board till retirement in '01. Oh and also served as a director for Imperial Tobacco

just a couple examples...

Think there might be a slight conflict of interest.. even if they mean well???

Its estimated that drug companies spend about $5 billion a year in US on sales reps and them trying to infuence docs and get them pushing thier newest and best drugs.

$5 billion!!!!! Think they do this cause it is not effective???? Man are they stupid huh?

I know a guy that does this for work and how they keep track of thier docs.. docs families, birthdays, favorite wines. Take them out to dinners. Offer free samples and get them working for the drug companies in one way or another.

They offer free vacations, cell phones, computers, straight out compensation for participating in prescribing thier products.

Poor docs are so busy and over worked this is pretty much thier only source (for many) on the new products on the market.

(if you think the FDA allowing them on means its safe start paying attention to all the ones they HAVE to pull after people die.. was it Vioxx that killed thousands?)

"Connie Kvilhaug worked for 6 years as a medical transcriptionist, typing out what physicians said about their patients' progress. While I am sure that people get cures from the medical profession, Connie didn't see any such evidence out of thousands of serious cases. Like me, she doesn't blame the dedicated doctors. Rather, she believes that doctors are doing the best they can given the medical options available to them. In my view, if physicians were trained to address the emotional causes of diseases, their results would dramatically improve."
-Gary Craig

Regardless what you believe with the emotional aspect-my point of posting is to do with reults!!!

re: Vioxx... no I'm sure they were aware that the product would kill 10s of 1000s of people, yet they decided to launch it anyway?
cmon... the bad publicity alone would not be worth the money they made from it, not counting whatever law-suit settlements they had to make, plus spend money on recalling the product
as for doctors getting $ compensation for prescribing a drug, I think there are laws against this
the businessmen being on the board of directors for a product that is bad for your health as well as one that is good for you is irrelevant... they are there to make business decisions, not to improve their products or act in the public's best interest... the worth of a drug depends on the scientists who develop it and those who run the drug trials... if someone were to blame, it would be the people who fudge and misrepresent the numbers and dangers associated with a drug
medical transcriptionist didn't see any evidence for cures for thousands of serious cases? also many variables in this - e.g. is the patient actually taking the drug or complying with treatment, is the drug designed to cure the disease? with Avandia, the diabetes will never be cured... it is a disorder of the cells regulating the sugar levels... the drug merely alters the blood sugars by playing with the receptors... it does not claim that it will cure diabetes if you take the drug.... but neither will doing yoga or seeing a shrink to eliminate negative thinking in your life... doctors already recommend diabetics to get exercise and a proper diet... the problem is that many of these diabetics are overweight ogres who cannot be bothered to get up out of their couch and stop eating chips for lunch... I'm sure if they paid a personal trainer to come and get them to change their lifestyle, their health would probably improve a lot more... the doctors sees them once every few months, and has very little control of how these people live their lives - all things considered, I think some drugs are very effective... just like exercising... some exercises are useless and can be harmful... this does not mean that exercising is bad

That may be very true for you.

Certainly not for me.


I guess JAMA doesn't know what they are talking about either. Too bad they are one of THE TOP medical journals. But even when info comes from within the system its simply ignored... why? memetics.

vioxx- on purpose or accident. Either way it killed 60000 people!!!!!! But cause its a pill we don't even pay attention to it. Because the media isn't all over it (why? hmmm) we don't think about it.

Do some research on the numbers of drugs that come out that get taking off the market (for hurting and killing people). Its SOP!! Take a look at who is one the FDA that is also on the boards of the drug companies.

It doesn't take any rocket science but it takes challanging belief systems. i.e. docs are gods and the gov is t here for our own good.

Compare numbers on deaths from prescription drugs and terrorist attacks. lol not even compareable. But one creates fear which is great for controle and one makes money hmmmm

Follow the money.

Bird flu Be scared be scared it will kill loads of people better get vaccininated or else the world is over as we know it. Tihs comes from gov... take a look at who in the gov is invested in the vaccines!!! And look how the treat!!! never follows through.

Its all there but the cup needs to be empty to see.

A boxing judge watching a MuayThai fight will see punches over kicks. This is how our brains get programmed. Its not right or wrong but its how it is.

http://www.aapsonline.org/nod/newsofday357.php

FDA being sued because mercury IS STILL in the meds they approve!

"Mercury is present in at least 45 prescribed or over-the-counter drugs, including eye ointments, nasal sprays, and vaccines. Mercury-containing flu vaccines are administered both to children and to pregnant women."

I don't care if anyone thinks its on purpose or not. Its there and its enough to cause serious question (unless you are programmed to bend over).

"If you aren't outraged you're not paying attention!"

Or you have been taught to say 'how high doc?'

note the source
Association of American Physicians and Surgeons November 13, 2006

Mercury was believed to have some beneficial qualities before its side effects were known. I don't know enough about it to say at what dosages it become toxic or how much makes it cumulative... so maybe those eye ointments and vaccines have levels that are actually safe, but everyone is jumping on the anti-mercury bandwagon, throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Of course it's SOP to take drugs that are harmful off the market. I don't know what precautions are taken or not taken to prevent this harm, but nothing in life is 100% safe... the FDA trials do involve animal models and then limited use in study groups before putting drugs on the market.
Questioning is fine, but living in constant paranoia is unwarranted. In the end, you put faith in some source of information anyway, whether it be the FDA, JAMA, Paul Chek, or what your mother taught you. Look, you take part in MT fights that carry increased risk of all sorts of serious injuries compared to if you didn't fight, but you do it regardless, right? Same thing with medicines. They have immediate effects. Antibiotics cure infections. Lipitor lowers your cholesterol levels. Insulin controls your blood sugar levels. NSAIDs reduce inflammation. These are not subjective effects, and these are desirable effects. Do they have side effects? Probably. You decide which of these problems you'd rather endure when weighed against possible side effects. Getting in your car to go to the mall, even though it's one of the leading causes of death. Life is a gamble.
Are some of these treatable with other, "natural" approaches? Perhaps many are, but in my opinion, these approaches are even less documented, so who knows what risks you are taking with them too.
Time magazine had an interesting article this week about risk assessment of americans... mentioned the same things - people who are afraid of flying, so they take to the roads, even though they put themselves in higher risk of dying that way... people protesting in front of nuclear plants, but hardly in front of tobacco plants, even though many more people die from smoking than radiation.

Would you consider a drug safe if some articles in JAMA said it's safe? Maybe some of those guys in the pharmaceutical boards of directors exercise editorial control of what's published? The media certainly is controlled by a very small group of people like Rupert Murdoch and Rogers, so whatever articles you read about 'dangerous' drugs is being allowed by these guys. If these drugs were indeed lucrative and corrupt schemes, I'm sure the companies could make payoffs to keep these things out of the media.
The media is already tightly controlled in political matters like war - casualties and the tortures conducted by our armies, and the media is used for propaganda, like "terrorism". Unfortunately, the public are calloused sheep... they do not want to receive news from al-Jazeera, they do not care when 1 million brown or black people are brutally massacred, they do not care enough to rise against abusive governments that take away 1/3 of their income in "taxes", just the same way they keep on smoking cigs when the packages clearly show them pictures of the cancers they will get.

Mercury-we all have to make our own desion on its effects but I believe if the research is done by an individual on the info out there it is very clear. The fact that it was suppose to be taken out of vaccines and that it isn't should be enough to think twice IMO

Questioning is fine-paranoia is not.

I don't worry two seconds about getting into an accident when putting on my seat belt. I simply believe it is smarter (never really looked into that belief-now I might lol). Info and choosing what the individual believes in thier own health does not have to be from paranoia.

Personally I live happier and healthier than I ever have. Just cause I choose to make my own desisions on health and not just bend over for the shot in my ass and open wide for the pill in my mouth and the fact I think that more often than not they are dangerous doesn't mean for a second that I worry about it.

With out knowlage we can't make an educated choice.

I am not saying anyone should be afraid. I suggest that we look into things a little and make conscious choice as opposed to doing simply what everyone does and we have been programmed to do.



Taking part in MuayThai fights. Yes I do. But I would think there was a problem if I didn't know the risks. I would think it was a problem if a trainer told a parent that there was no way there kid could get hurt or if the risks were unreasonably minimized.


Antibiotics cure infection-often the infection is fungal (many antibiotics also work as anyifungals. What is the cause of the infection?? If one was healthy and had a properly functioning immune system would it be nessasary? What is the damage caused by antibiotics? The fact they wipe out good bacteria as well as bad and that this good bacteria is a HUGE part of immune function. What if a client knew this? What if a patient was taught how to recolonizze the gut after antibiotics?

My own personal story-impacted wisdom tooth. Cut open gums, pulled out, put in composit material etc etc SOP antibiotics. Not only is it thought to be nessasary but its believed that the bone will not grow over composit without. I proved wrong on both cases. I did not take the antibiotics I was prescribed.

I do NOT recommend this because peoples immune systems are weak and do not function properly... The point is is it worth looking at actually getting people healthy instead of sticking them with a drug that makes money??

The assumption is that antibiotics is nessasary.

"The terrain is far more important."

"Lipitor lowers your cholesterol levels"-the whole cholesterol thing is bs and there is an assumption that they should be lowered "The Cholesterol Myth" is a good place to check that out.

But more importantly why is cholesterol high???? It is high because of other things. Giving a potentially dangerous drug to change a symptom does absolutely nothing to deal with the cause!

Insulin controles blood sugar-at very best the research is devided. But yet again why!!!!! is there a problem here and drugging a symptom does nothing to look at the etiology (cause!).

If you go to a mechanic cause your car is making funny noises and he gives you ear plugs what would you think???? You want to get to the reason, no?

In the body we drug the noise and not addressing the reason does what?? Keeps you coming back for one cause IF the noise doesn't get louder then its likely to show up somewhere else or whatever is causing the noise creates a problem somewhere else and the dash light comes on... But of course a good mechanic can give you some duct tape to cover up the dash light so you can keep on keeping on without worry.

Prob is the ear plugs and duct tape have side effects and no one really knows how bad (at best) and don't care (at worst). If it was simple a matter of side effects and the reality and chances were explained and given then everyone could make a choice.

You're allopathic apraoch (this for that) is based on the assumption that we are all the same. The vast range of side effects shows that to be untrue. "Biochemical Individuality" -Roger Williams (if memory serves) is an excellent read on how diverse we are.

"Are some of these treatable with other, "natural" approaches?"
They are less documented. one thing that is interesting with science and medicine though is that if a study is done in which results can't fit into current understanding and beliefs it is often ignored... so progress is very very slow!!!

But there is another problem. Natural or synthetic approaches to treatment of symptom (the rout of which means signal-dash board light or maybe a noise).

There is a time and place for dealing with symptoms but never, ever without looking for the real cause. Yet this is almost NEVER done.

The thing is too much potassium can make some people more acidic and hyper and some more alkaline and layed back. (another reason for the wide range of side effects as everyone is different).

Not enough documented proof.. Ever wonder where that may come from or how often it is accepted or who pays for the vast majority of studies?

Flying and driving etc etc
Fear based...
medicine is much more fear based than what I am suggesting...

I am suggesting that we CAN take controle of our health.
That we DO NOT need to worry about this and that and get antibiotics for every little thing (cause ouga bouga it might get worse).
That we DO NOT need to buy into the fear that our body is weak and without poisons, knives, radiation we can not survive.

We get vaccines because of fear.
We take drugs because of fear.
We get antibiotics cause of fear.


Do I consider a drug safe the JAMA said was ok?

I consider man made chemicals to be a challange at best in the body.
I do believe there is a time and place for them all.

My comments with JAMA are not to say they know it all.

When a Toyota dealer say they are better than honda you have to wonder.
When a toyota dealer says well I'm sorry to say but toyota doesn't measure up to honda in these areas you go hmmmm (he is less likely to gain from making this up).

Controle on whats published. I don't think its quite as black and white as that but I do think it plays a big role.

TV is a great example cause when you follow the ownership back you find that big corperations own tv stations.

A great example is Fox News and Monsanto. Investigative reporters could not report what they found (follow the money) and how nasty and scary the shit they were selling to milk producing cow farmers. threats, sueing, sensorship etc etc.. Its an excellent example.

When thousands die its pretty hard to keep out of any news... but notice 1-almost no one hears the story
2-when heard its basically ignored by everyone...

I mean when its reported that docs are the 3rd leading cause of death (very conservative and low figures too). I certainly don't expect people to blindly believe that but you'd think it would cause a few questions and a little research from a few people... wouldn't you? The only reason it wouldn't is the blind belief in the medical system. Even though the figures don't come from some tree hugging anti-medical group but from with-in the system itself.

Isn't that enough reason to go.."hhmmm.. IF this is true, wow!!"

But its simply-oh thats bs.

That is blind belief IMO

"Unfortunately, the public are calloused sheep..."

And this apllies to everyone but us, right? Everyones beliefs but ours. Apllies to everything out there except the systems we opperate in?

I have my programming, you do, we all do. IMO&E

I am not suggesting anyone believe anything or that any 'turth' should be excepted.

I am trying to suggest we question not only anything that may not fit into our current beliefs but that we can question our own.

To me the numbers of deaths from the medical and 'health' care system is way way too high. AT absolute best the system needs to tighten up on errors IMO even if one does agree with some of the alternatives I share and have belief in...

At very least I would hope the numbers should cause concern and interest in improvement.

But improvement takes change and that is something we as humans are extreamly resistant too IMO&E.

You in the medical system? :)

I like your arguements-they come across as thought out and supportive of your views as opposed to attcking. Thank you.

http://www.mercola.com/2006/dec/21/the-hidden-agenda----how-you-are-being-deceived-about-fluoride.htm

on fluoride-basically or at least to start

But gives you a good idea of what is going on. I strongly encourage anyone to watch.

10 yr cover up on this drug?

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/12/nyt_lilly.html

http://www.internationalbreastfeedingjournal.com/content/1/1/24

Epidurals affecting ability to breast feed (and we should KNOW! that breast feeding is THE best way to feed a baby if at all possible).

Anyone starting to see a trend?

Prescription drugs and problems?

"If two dozen once-jittery mice at UBC are telling the truth postmortem, the world's governments may soon be facing one hell of a lawsuit. New, so-far-unpublished research led by Vancouver neuroscientist Chris Shaw shows a link between the aluminum hydroxide used in vaccines, and symptoms associated with Parkinson's, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS, or Lou Gehrig's disease), and Alzheimer's.



Shaw is most surprised that the research for his paper hadn't been done before. For 80 years, doctors have injected patients with aluminum hydroxide, he said, an adjuvant that stimulates immune response.



"This is suspicious," he told the Georgia Straight in a phone interview from his lab near Heather Street and West 12th Avenue. "Either this [link] is known by industry and it was never made public, or industry was never made to do these studies by Health Canada. I'm not sure which is scarier."



Similar adjuvants are used in the following vaccines, according to Shaw's paper: hepatitis A and B, and the Pentacel cocktail, which vaccinates against diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, polio, and a type of meningitis.



To test the link theory, Shaw and his four-scientist team from UBC and Louisiana State University injected mice with the anthrax vaccine developed for the first Gulf War. Because Gulf War Syndrome looks a lot like ALS, Shaw explained, the neuroscientists had a chance to isolate a possible cause. All deployed troops were vaccinated with an aluminum hydroxide compound. Vaccinated troops who were not deployed to the Gulf developed similar symptoms at a similar rate, according to Shaw.



After 20 weeks studying the mice, the team found statistically significant increases in anxiety (38 percent); memory deficits (41 times the errors as in the sample group); and an allergic skin reaction (20 percent). Tissue samples after the mice were "sacrificed" showed neurological cells were dying. Inside the mice's brains, in a part that controls movement, 35 percent of the cells were destroying themselves.



"No one in my lab wants to get vaccinated," he said. "This totally creeped us out. We weren't out there to poke holes in vaccines. But all of a sudden, oh my God-we've got neuron death!""

--

""To me, that calls for better testing, not blind faith."

He pointed out that George W. Bush passed legislation that opens the door for the USA to order a nationwide anthrax immunization campaign, with the threat of bioterrorism."

some parts of an article from PROVE
(Parents Requesting Open Vaccination Education)
http://vaccineinfo.net/

what is your doc saying you should stick in you? or your child?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=451097355502728465&q=codex

this is entertaining and informative.

Trust your government?

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=5232639329002339531&q=fiat+empire

http://www.texaseagle.org/torch/NewTorch/2-2007Torch.pdf

read the second article-a proposed mandate for 6th grade girls-scary shit

rights? what rights?

http://www.texaseagle.org/torch/NewTorch/2-2007Torch.pdf

read the second article-a proposed mandate for 6th grade girls-scary shit

rights? what rights?

oh not surprisingly the vaccines have alluminum in them... yes please, how about some more mercury too! anyone seeing a trend?

http://www.mercola.com/2007/feb/13/new-book-exposes-the-mistaken-medical-assumptions-doctors-often-make.htm

"Fifteen percent to 20 percent of medical diagnoses are wrong; half or more of these incorrect diagnoses result in serious injury or death. Over a quarter of all radiological tests, including CAT scans and MRIs, are also misread."

so that's saying about 10% of people who go to a doctor get a serious injury or die... I seriously doubt this

they should teach these docs how to do real treatment... by thinking and tapping the disease and injuries away!

Imagine looking into something we didn't already know.

http://www.mercola.com/2007/feb/20/protect-your-health-and-life-from-medical-mistakes.htm

5min video getting to the point in a couple areas.

http://www.mercola.com/2007/feb/27/will-drug-companies-and-the-fda-really-take-care-of-you.htm

If 60,000 people died from any other cause what would the public response be??
Yet when the cause is medical drugs its dismissed and accepted.

Maybe if it was promoted and marketed with fear on the TV we'd all be bombing the drug companies. Threat level oranange today is the forcast, get out your fear and do what we say, oh and in the mean time for your safety you we'll take away your rights.

"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention."

on the other hand mercola is also making money off people flocking to his site, full of panic that "the man" is out to get them and mercola is here to save the day by giving them all the info they need to know

60,000 people died over like 5 years? how many people died over the same time period in africa because they didn't have a simple pill to fight tuberculosis or an antibiotic to fight a minor infection?

the drug companies are out there to make a buck to be sure, but it's a bit off base to be suggesting that they are premeditatedly trying to kill people - in many cases, the side effects are not known until later - there is only so much that a FDA trial can do before releasing the drug for public consumption... there is plenty of red tape involved in releasing a new drug, supposedly to protect you... but guess what, life isn't guaranteed.
how many people die every day in a car accident, or how many people choke to death eating a pretzel? everything has a risk... does the FDA knowingly clear drugs that it *knows* are going to cause more harm than good... do drug companies even design such drugs?

the sad fact is that people are sheep and want to be controlled and told what to do and think... so many people develop heart disease and diabetes because they live and eat like fat pigs... and no one raises any fuss about our armies bombing other nations so that we can take their resources; the population doesn't even rise up when the government is taking a third of their income in taxes, and not giving you any information or say in what they do with it

not only are they not paying attention, they don't even care

60,000 people over five years. Thats over 10,000 a year and you compare it to something else?

How is that even relevant?

Only so much the FDA can do-thats right since they are tied to the drug companies.

So a professional say-60,000 deaths, no worried it was over five years and look we do some good too.

Sorry I don't buy it.

Population doesn't rise up about anything. Might help[ if they weren't so drugged and kept in a survival state mentality (fear adds to that big time!).

Sad fact is 60,000 people died and its dismissed.

"Prescription For Disaster"
watch it on google

Did the FDA make any chances to protect us from little accidents like vioxx (killed 60,000 people)?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2502546838698762400&hl=en

http://www.mercola.com/2007/mar/13/accidental-deaths-due-to-prescription-drugs-on-the-rise.htm

"According to the CDC, deaths resulting from prescription drugs have risen to become the second-largest cause of unintentional deaths in the United States. Such deaths increased by 61 percent in 1999, growing from 4.4 per 100,000 people in that year to 7.1 per 100,000 people in 2004."

yes, it must be compared to something else, to put it in context

if for example 250,000 people would die from waiting for a drug to come out because of extra red tape to "make it safe", it's not worth the red tape

and it's also relevant to context if people are not being alarmed at the deaths of others needlessly when they could be saved for peanuts

people don't care about others' suffering until it happens to them or their families, so they are not going to "do" anything about drug companies' regulations, especially in light of the fact that they don't do anything about their governments taxing them to death, or using their tax money to kill people in other countries

ultimately, what suggestions do you have to make drugs more safe? have a campaign for the sick not to take drugs? that's certainly not the FDA's responsibility, nor their mandate
do you suggest more red tape? perhaps 10 years more of efficacy studies of a new drug tested on who? prisoners? the third world? pharmaceuticals can only be tested to a degree before putting it out for public consumption in a population because some of the conditions cannot realistically be tested... they are already tested on various animal models and test subjects... in the public, there are many other conditions that can cause adverse outcome, like genetic intolerance, allergies, use with contraindications, using the wrong dosage, misdiagnosis of the problem, etc.
the process is already quite expensive and many beneficial drugs cannot be brought to market because of the red tape and politics... I don't think there can be any realistic improvement on this

Can you give s an example of 250,000 people dieing from red tape stopping a new wonder drug from coming out please.

Personally I avoid medical drugs like the plaque. I believe in health and looking at the person with the symptoms, not looking at the symptoms and creating a label and treating each label the same.

"One mans food is another mans poison."

This is because the everyone acts and reacts differently to substances in the body.

Just like oranges make me too alkaline they make other people more acidic. If I was too acidic then great but I am generally too alkaline.

Drugs are the same. The reason why there are so many possible side effects (besides studies have not been done-some side effects for the drugs are the same things they are suppose to treat!) is because each body reacts differently anf no one can know what will happen when any individual takes a drug.

Many of the studies are not done on women, for example, due to hormone fluxuations.. of course the drugs are marketed to women.

Yes I think higher standards should be involved but drugs NEVER cure chronic illnesses. They are used to treat symptoms. I do not believe in treating symptoms as the focus of health.

There may be a time and place but drugs NEVER deal with (I can't think of any anyway) the CAUSE. Only a symptom.

I heard a woman taking about how she was cured of breast cancer 5 times. Her consciousness of health and the body said she got cancer (some random or genetic reason i guess) and western med got rid of it. My belief and consciousness of health says that the cancer was a symptom of imbalance and a poorly functioning body and getting rid of the cancer (symptom in this case) was not dealing with the cause and it showed up again and again.

Its a different belief system and consciousness about health and the body.

Mr Pastuer came up with the invader (virus/germ etc) is the issue. Most of his peers did not agree. Mr Bechamp, and many others, believed that the terrain/host (body) was more important than the virus or invader. But Pastuer was very skilled at self promotion and the medical community saw a simply way to treat everyone. One pill fits all. One size fits all.

Its a whole different paradigm and I choose to subscribe to the one that makes me take responsibility not not have to rely on others (who make a buck from it).

Neither is right or wrong-the question is what outcome do you want and which one gets you there?

Can't really measure the effects of something that didn't happen... who knows what drugs are still being tested or were not approved for political/commercial reasons. I do know that cheap drugs for easily preventable disease like TB are not available to many dying people in Africa. Who knows how many die in the US because they don't have medical insurance. Probably not a popular statistic for the government to collect.

Since each body reacts differently, there is no standard way to measure the effects of a drug for everybody beyond having a reasonably representative test group. What other measures do you feel the FDA should take?

Measure and see how safe it is. If safe for ten and harmful for 10 and deadly for 3... well just not that safe. At minimum be clear on the true stats. The reality ios the drug companies rush out a product for a profit. They have to recall cause its harmful... they still made a buck. They don't care.

I worked breifly with a woman last week who had nerve damage. Her hands were swollen and burning. On a scale of 0-10 she gave them a 7 or 8 I think. In a few minuits we got it down to about a 1... It wasn't a session and we only spent a few min.. The point though is that she was very angrt that she WAS NOT told the possible side effects from the cancer treatment.

Drugs not approved for commercial reasons-??? Maybe a a small company or a product that works but doesn't make them money... yes I have heard of lots of those types of stories.

Its law in the US for docs to only be allowed to use certain methods. It is law...

Though I don't think this is a be all and end all here is a product, system, that proved some results
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZTFqKMlCCo&mode=related&search=
short video

Actually I just watched a dvd with a guy who went in remmission from cancer(different approach than above). I watched some of the work and the treatment and in it a letter was read that from a couple years later with what else he did, how much of what he did and what he thinks were the biggest factors.

There are ways besides burning and poisoning or the knife the body. Other ways than attacking and killing.

The point is it is the indiviuals choice!!!

One of the teachers at the CHEK Inst was a client with cancer. No longer has and kept studying and became a teacher.

http://ppssuccess.com/Portals/0/docs/Healing%20and%20Transformation.pdf
this is a personal account of a man that was diagnosed with terminal cancer in 1975 and told he had two months to live..

His approach is very different to herbs or drugs. He went into himself.

The cases are not that rare actually.

I choose to see possibilities. I choose to believe in health.

Everyone has a choice. If that be docs are the only way to go all the time. Then that is right for them.

Just don't limit other peoples choices. Don't limit the info. Don't listen to your doc like he is God without maybe thinking for yourself a little-at least that is my belief system.

I'm not sure how clear part of that was...
The woman I worked with with the nerve damage... the nerve damage was from the cancer treatments... there were other effects that we didn't have time to address or look at.

Though its trade secret Minnesota passed a law that looked at the moneys involved...

Since 1997, when the Minnesota law was passed, drug companies have paid more than 5,500 health care workers in the state at least $57 million; more than 20 percent of the state's physicians received money, and over 100 people received more than $100,000. Ten doctors and one dentist received more than $500,000. Another $40 million was paid to clinics, research centers and other organizations.

Doctors often received payments in return for delivering lectures about drugs to other doctors. Some sat on the committees that create nationwide guidelines about when to use medicines; a 2002 survey actually found that upwards of 80 percent of the doctors on such panels had financial ties to drug makers. A small number of doctors were being paid to do research.

http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/How-Much-Are-Drug-Companies-Really-Paying-Your-Doctor--8101.aspx

Journal of the American Medical Association, Vol. 297, No. 11, March 21, 2007: 1216-1223

New York Times March 21, 2007 (Registration Required)

Tuscaloosa News.com March 21, 2007

http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/Could-Antidepressants-Explain-the-Virginia-Tech-Massacre--10928.aspx

Could Antidepressants Explain the Virginia Tech Massacre?

http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/The-Latest-Outrageous-Drug-Company-Ads-10224.aspx

The Latest Outrageous Drug Company Ads

Drugs *are* measured for safety. This is the purpose of the FDA. Further to the 10;10:3 example you made, do you actually have the statistics of adverse effects for any drugs? Even if you did and they looked numerically acceptable, you'd probably claimed that the results were falsified, or that they are not reflected in the real world because of the way the samples were done. This may be valid, maybe not. Would 1000:15:1 be acceptable for you? There's still one person dying there. For the 15 being harmed, what is the degree of harm that's acceptable? I'm sure many of these also have some benefit in addition to the side effects.
The government has set guidelines as to what's acceptable. I personally don't know what they are, or how well they are adhered to. I don't think many people care, just as I've repetitively drawn the parallel to taxpayers and their money. 30% of your lifeforce - i.e. 30% of your time spent working goes to the government, and they tell you that they will spend it justly to your best benefit. I don't believe it. But I don't see any revolts happening. Recently a politician told the transit commission that the city didn't have $6 million for transport costs. Soon thereafter, newspaper reporters showed that the same guy had spent $2 million of taxpayer money to upgrade his offices. This guy was not held responsible or lynched or sent to jail or asked to justify himself. You don't think it's totally outrageous that you should spend 1/3 of your lifetime to in part enable the comforts of some lazy politicians?

In the same way that our money is given to administrators, so is the responsibility for health care given to doctors. Personally I feel better that they should be standardized in the way they practice, much like the government supposedly has some laws governing the way they spend our money. If herbalists and alternative medicine proponents feel their stuff works, they should use the same avenues that drug makers do to authorize and popularize their remedies. Personally, I feel more comfortable with standardized methods and medicines being prescribed by a university graduate who has had clinical training, versus a guy who did a two-week course from some herbalist cult that relies on anecdotal evidence and placebo techniques. This is not to say that the first method is perfect or that it is free from systemic corruption or bias, nor that the second method is without any real cures.

You may be shocked to learn that some of the moneys given by drug firms to doctors and clinics is actually without any strings attached! Yes, the doctors do expect to be compensated for recruiting patients for the drugs studies, and I believe most of them inform the potential recruits of the possible side effects rather than secretly use them as guinea pigs. Relative to the money they make from their profession, trust me, for the majority of them, it would not be worth risking their license for a "bribe" from a drug company. Many also have a conscience.
Besides that the drug companies have to actually pay highly qualified people to do their evil bidding (i.e. real clinical trials, or explaining to groups how a drug works, should god forbid there actually be drugs that work and are safe), they also like to make donations to clinics that deal with disease. Much like billionaires like to make donations to charities - giving back a little fraction of the monstrous sum they suck from the world, and making themselves look like nice guys in the process.

Doctors (who do mistakes) are there to give the best solutions to health problems. I believe there are enough actually sick people to go around and to truly treat that would already give them big salaries, without having to fool people into believing they are sick and peddling pharmaceuticals. No one forces cancer patients to go to a doctor in the first place, or to engage in treatment if they don't want to.

While it is very easy to pull up cases of the doctors being "wrong", like the guy being told "he had two months to live" whereas he actually went into remission, I think this is often skewed. On what basis did they tell him he had 2 months to live? Probably on statistical information of the survivorship rates for the type of cancer he had. Relative to this case, how many people that are told they will die in 2 months do actually die in 2 months? Probably the majority. There are people who survive being shot in the head, yet the majority do die.
The doctors are not ultimate source of knowledge, and some people may be well-informed, or even better informed than they are on certain things. Yet, the truth is that the majority of the population are idiots. Anyone who works in retail will tell you this. Most people are not well enough informed nor do they care to be, to make many judgments. That's why we have experts and representatives. That's the same way government works. It doesn't mean that the experts are infallible, but most of the time the average opinion is less informed.

The woman with the nerve damage that was very angry about not being told about the possible side effects of the treatment - this is ludicrous. Would she rather have chosen to die from cancer than have nerve damage? What a tragedy that the oncologist may not have had time to go through every exhaustive possible permutation of outcomes and possible subjective perception of sensations she may have. Did she even really have any nerve damage if it was "relieved" in a few minutes? Due to the high level of luxury and legal recourses (litigation), developed nations have produced a heightened level of sensitivity in people. In developing countries people with one arm will be doing regular jobs or a guy with a gunshot wound will silently wait for hours for treatment. In the west, the first person will go on disability for the rest of their life and request antidepressants and a shrink to deal with the horror of only having one arm. A person a skin rash will demand instant medical access and whine about having to wait half an hour. People sue McDonald's because the coffee was too hot and this caused them to drop it and burn themselves. Or a company is sued because someone slipped and fell on the sidewalk in front of their store. Is it that the company is evil and negligent, or is it that many of these people are lazy, selfish, clumsy and oblivious idiots who love to complain and launch frivolous lawsuits in the hopes of getting some money?
In fact, I believe part of the reason doctors over-prescribe drugs is to accommodate many of the frivolous whinings. Doctor, I know antibiotics don't do anything to cure the flu, but in my expert opinion, I suspect I also have an opportunistic bacterial infection. Doctor, my dog just died, and I'm very depressed by this deep loss - can you give me some Prozac? Doctor, I have trouble sleeping, can you give me some pills? Doctor, I'm feeling tired a lot lately, can you run some tests? Etc.
Check this "condition" for example:
http://www.arthritis.ca/types%20of%20arthritis/fibromyalgia/
Fibromyalgia. I won't go as far as to say that none of these individuals have an actual health problem, but the only people I've personally encountered that had this were pasty, out-of-shape, overly observant types. People who will describe the sensation of ortho-static hypotension (headrush) when you stand up too quickly. Or people who will go to a specialist because they think they are going blind, because they've just realized that they have a blind spot in each eye (that every human has). What are the symptoms of fibromyalgia? Being tired, having sore muscles, poor memory, depression, stiffness, trouble sleeping. These could all just as easily be called stress. Or living a sedentary lifestyle. Or not sleeping enough. But instead, these people will find solace in having some happy pills prescribed as the cure!

I don't think I could say any persons emotions are luducrous. They are their own. I have yet to meet someone who's emotions are always logical and thought out in the way I think they should (and I forgive myself when I have that thought).

If you are happy with it that is wonderful. If someone isn't, that too is wonderful.

We all have the choice of how we experience our own realities.

Obviously no one is perfect and we all have different thresholds and experience life differently. If blame and accusations of incompetence start being implied, however, the complainer's expectations have to be evaluated against the average person's expectation. There is such thing as a reasonable expectation vs. an unreasonable one, irrespective of how real the dissatisfaction is to the complainer.

I don't think there needs to be any blame. My intention is to add awareness of different thoughts and possibilities. Each can to choose thier own belief and path.

If they choose to blame others for their chooses that is their option.

"If you believe you can't, you're right. If you believe you can, you're right."

I think there is a lot of truth in this and the more experience I have in my own life with my own healing and hear clients feed back or their own experiences and the more people I speak with who work in the so called 'alternative' fields and the more people I meet that have experienced success with different approaches than the western medical model, the more I see success. knowing + experience = true knowledge.

My experience is that you can. Your experience may be different.

Does that mean eith is right or wrong?

I choose to live with possibilities and not limitations and I choose to believe that we need not be limited to what is considered norm by the majority.

I believe there is a tie and place for everything. I just don't believe that the medical system is the only possibility or the only way.

I admit that I see it all through the fliters of my perceptions and programming and experiences. I also believe that is all anyone does.

What I choose is to seek possibilities and then look for the experience to make it a reality in my mind.

This I have done. Is it right for you? I don't know. Is it right for anyone else? I don't know. Is it a possibility for anyone? I believe so.

I never would recommend anyone not seeing a doc or using the current medical system. I do share some of my thoughts on some of my percieved limitations of that model.

I offer the thought that maybe there isn't only one way.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/02/news/companies/drug_rep/

Doc starting to say no to Big Pharma reps.

http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/Is-Your-Doctor--Being-PAID-OFF-By-
The-Drug-Industry--13182.aspx

Is Your Doctor Being PAID OFF by the Drug Industry?

"The Drugging of our Children" documentary by Gary Null
SSRI drug dangers/Columbine shooting etc

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3609599239524875493&hl=en

diabeties drug raises risks

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/07/16/diabetes-drug-avandia-side-effect-reports-triple.aspx

"The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has reportedly removed a senior FDA scientist from work on diabetes drug Avandia because the unnamed scientist voiced concerns about the drug’s safety."

"Avandia, made by GlaxoSmithKline Plc, brought in more than $3 billion in sales in 2006."

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/08/16/senior-fda-scientist-removed-for-voicing-concerns-about-avandia.aspx



you trust the drugs your popping on blind faith?

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/1/3/antidepressants-and-violence.aspx

Anti-depressants and Violence
(short video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCMzjJjuxQI&eurl=http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/02/26/More-Doctors-Smoke-Camels-Than-Any-Other-Cigarette.aspx

What are doctors being used to sell today?