The ego in fighting

Was watching UFC this weekend - Pat barry vs some guy.

Barry being the stand up fighter, ironically, was taking a bit of a beating on his feet.
Previous to the bout, it was however apparent in interviews etc, that barry has considerable belief in his own ability as a stand up fighter.

He seemed to get very frustrated throughout the bout however, and visibly annoyed with his opponent who was beating him to the punch.

this did not seem to do him any favours in terms of clarity of mind - which one may consider to be crucial in a bout.

**

I saw another bout a while back, and one guy was taking the most tremendous beating on his feet (mma).

But his composure was remarkable.

Then, his opponent made a brief mistake - which said fighter used as an opportunity to take him to the ground and submit him.

The fact that he had been overcome the majority of the bout did not seem to enter into his mind.

He remained entirely focused and entirely technical - not allowing his judgment to be clouded, on what one would assume would be their ego.

**

Examining closer certain fighters, this seems to be the case quite a bit.

The more technically proficient the guy, the less of an ego he seems to have - or so it seems to me at least.

**

So having considered the above, it would certainly seem that one is better off maintaining this clarity of mind.

How does one do this?

How does one neutralize or eliminate their own ego and thus perform at a higher level?

P.S. apologies, it sounds like a question that might be more suitable for a psychology forum or some such.

Upon further consideration however;
I guess composure comes when your in a situation, and you know exactly how to handle it.

So perhaps it's the more technical, more clear headed, thinking fighters who tend to be the more composed.

And perhaps it's guys that are more composed, more technical, more aware, that depend less on their ego...

..apologies

just trying to answer my own question :)

edit: "depend less on their ego for confidence"

I am the best and I will win at all costs mentality gets one so far - but there is a flip side and sometimes a cost.

Reality is no one is the best - I find it fascinating to watch a fighter with 1 or 2 fights or a handful, win a match and proceed to act like he is number 1 and the best in the world.

Or 'pros' loose and throw tantrums or fall apart at the decision.

Tough guy, will win no matter what, I'm the best and anger are all ways, in my opinion and experience, to over come fear - and to a degree to help performance.

But when a 'win at ll costs/I'm the best attitude' is focused on and the fighter starts to get rocked, beaten, is loosing - mentally the fighter often breaks down because his reality bubble is popped.

The ego is very dominant in western fighters and I think it is benefitial to work at training!!! and competing with less ego controlling perspective and action.

Also I think that "I'm the best" attitude lends for less flexibility - (as does training combos and one way as the main form of training imo&e). When things aren't going so well with what you are doing the thing to do is change it up. Having a game plan is wonderful and powerful but if it isn't working doing more of the same and hoping for a different result is, in Einstein's words "insanity" lol

Fighting to win is the main focus of many trainers and mental coaches - in my opinion there are way more powerful reasons to fight and to motivate a fighter to perform at or near his potential - this leads to the best chance of winning but winning as a byproduct not the primary focus for performing your best.

In this world we seem to be governed by "relative polar opposites" (yin/yang) and my understanding of the mind says to me that the focus on winning has a strong subconscious focus on loosing (not loosing actually but the subconscious doesn't get the "not" part as "not" isn't anything - "don't run" the mind must think of running to think about what not to do - consciously we get this but the subconscious just gets the image of "run").

Win win win tends to have a subconscious fear of loose loose loose.

One thing I suggested to some young guys before a fight is to look at fighting as a rights of passage - winning or doing well doesn't mean you are a man per say but it is a symbolic test. The man agrees to fight and that means come prepared and to perform no matter what. The test is an example of sticking to your word and taking on a challenge that you will complete and put your all into. It is a reminder and a training for everything else - work, relationship, life, parenting challenges etc Its a way of saying ok here is the test about who I choose to be and I have chosen to be here and to fight - it is a test of my word and my action and though it may get tough I will follow through with my whole heart. If you have a family this is also for them (if I were to fight again I would put my daughter on my back in training and the fight - nothing and no one will get through me to her - making sure not to use her as my power - the child cannot hold such a responsibility - using my choice of parenting her and protecting her as a focus and motivation. Though in the ring she is not at risk per say it is a reminder and motivation for me to test and challenge myself and no one will get to her....

Just some thoughts and examples on motivation for fighting that I feel and think goes way beyond the ego needs to win - ego needs to win to be worth whhile or good enough.

But I believe that will give me a way greater chance of winnning than just the goal to win...

Just my opinion and thoughts at this time.


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The better a fighter gets and the more experience the more likely they will tap into the reality that there are many fighters at their level and often many more greater.

needing, wanting, focusing on winning is much weaker than many other forms of motivation I feel

I agree with Mark L and think many fighters get so obsessed about being number one that it makes them a lot more rigid in their style. When you're mind is focused purely on winning you're more likely to want to punch/kick the finishing blow in each exchange instead of calmly rolling with the punches and naturally seizing the right opportunity as it comes. When both fighters get rigid with the idea of winning it's just like watching cat fight.

Yet at the same time the opposite extreme is also something to be cautious of. I was sparring a few nights ago with a girl at my dojo who is my senpai (senior) and because of her seniority alone she believes she's better.. in Japan the excess in ego comes out in strange and mysterious ways... so she stands still as I punch and kick, and in her mind she believes she is strong and superior and that my blows don't mean anything, but she quickly lost control of herself in her attempt at being martially holier than thou and was unable to regain a strong stance.

So perhaps it's a balance of attempting to win yet not be afraid to lose, while releasing our true form mentally and in our martial technique that's most natural to us.

I agree about balance - I also think the focus of winning winning winning suggests the subconscious has a relatively strong focus on (not) loosing - keeping in mind "not" doesn't compute.

Positive thinking is something lots of people talk about and I do think it is important - Boom Boom Mancini had a single negative thought in training and he called his mental coach right away (according to James E Leohr (spel?) author of a couple great books (Toughness Training For Athletes and The Power of Full Engagement)

There is an exercise I do with all beginners

Hold arm out to side and flex and hold as strong as possible. A partner slowly tries to bend the arm at the elbow(the goal of the 'bender' is not in the bending but seeing how much strength it takes to bend).

Second time the arm goes out straight and the student is instructed to hold the arm relaxed yet keep it there (loosely point to a spot on wall can help) and the 'bender' again slowly adds pressure to see how much strength it takes to bend.

It is amazing how strong the arm can be when remaining relaxed - I recommend anyone to experience it.

The point is and how it is related, I feel, is that the mental state you are in will support the body being tight and rigid and straining in strength or to remain loose and fluid and relaxed while still being very strong and powerful in your movements.

When you actually feel the strength difference and can have a conversation while someone is trying to bend your arm you get some solid feed back at what many of the greats tap into often yrs into training and competing (Thais start pretty relaxed generally I think)

Another one is to hold arms out, ground, relax and do like a dead weight - two people lift you by upper arms...

Compare how easy it is to lift when you are tight -

"I am the best and I will win", anger, stress, tightness etc and the body is much easier moved or lifted....

That is a physiological response to the mental game never mind the performance increase when the mind and body are relaxed

in my opinion and experience

(I do with beginners cause I find it helps loads (just like other stuff talked about above on this thread) and if not done from get go I find it hard to get across to people - say fighters with 10 fights or a few yrs of training

Operating from the ego keeps you tight mentally, emotionally and physically.

Ego always exists (maybe the odd exception of truly being in a state with out for short periods) but it doesn't have to be a controlling factor in my opinion.

The ego cares about winning and its home is in the mind -

When you are thinking (ego in the mind) you will not perform at your highest potential IMO&E

Very true. Those exercises sound interesting. I think most people agree about the concept of the existence and/or excess in ego as being a hindrance to seeing and responding clearly in a fight. But perhaps few of us are able to actually understand the feeling of having no ego in our mindset - so your exercises are great in that they lead students to that feeling through self-discovery, which is one of the most powerful teaching tools in leaving a long lasting impression.

I also believe there's a large number of martial artists, however, that have romanticized this sense of "selflessness" ironically to the extreme where it becomes selfish. In their mind they impose on themselves a superficial personality they deem as "selfless", going through the motions of extreme politeness in the dojo and going to the extreme of inaction in fighting as if a martyr. Perhaps because their quest to "selflessness" was all done through the mind the personality conversely becomes more perverse.

In your exercises, contrary to what most beginners would believe, the selflessness within us is proved physically with our bodies.

This thread has inspired me to write an article on this topic on my site.

So the general conclusion that is seemingly drawn, is that when one is relaxed, with that being the focus, as oppose to achieving some goal relative to the exercise, which is where the ego WOULD come into play - win, go hard, faster, stronger, I MUST go hard to be the best.

Where we have a case where them things are not the focus, that is to say, a case where the ego is not in play, but rather the focus being relaxation, control of intensity, focus on movement as oppose to strength, perhaps, then the results are greatly enhanced.

Sounds like a bit of a paradox.
"to have the best result, your focus cannot be on having the best result".

Occasionally one might hear a great fighter, in response to the question "are you going to win your fight?"; they might respond something like, "if it is God's will".

With a mentality of this nature, the ego surely comes into play to a lesser or nil degree, and therefore, as above, and for those reasons mentioned, the end result is that much more emphatic.

Just trying to envisage a more lucid idea of the process...

The ego, which is the part of our psyche that is focused and has desire to win, is, we have seemingly derived, an aspect of our character that, when put on the forefront of our incentive, happens to be counterproductive to some degree - an example being Marks exercise mentioned above.

So when the focus is on what we're DOING

(part of the psyche at work: cerebral/productive/considerate),

not on what we want to achieve,

(part of the psyche at work: ego)

then the end result is much more advanced and dynamic.

In the exercise mentioned, seemingly the most productive focus one could have, was to be relaxed - as that's when the most effective results were attained.

I find when lifting weights, to focus on my breathing - which is generally one's focus when they are trying to stay relaxed - it makes the process much more efficient and enjoyable.

I also find, when hitting pads or performing something, kicks, punches etc, that requires some degree of technique, that to focus on my movement, that seems to get the best result.

Having thought about it, I guess this may be due to good technique effectively being one's movement.
That is to say, if your movement is performed in the correct manner, this effectively translates as having good technique.

Again, in having this focus - on the task at hand, as oppose to what we ultimately wish to achieve - the ego does not come into play, and therefore our actions transcend what would actualize if our primary focus was the formerly mentioned, ego related motive.



Perhaps oftentimes it may come down to something as simple as having the presence of mind to focus on the task at hand as oppose to what we wish to achieve, and the spoils that would come with that.

I've watched this fight so many times.

Just trying to determine the turning point really.

The loosing fighter mentioned in a post fight interview that, a mistake he felt he made, was that he got carried away in looking for the win.

His exact words were.

"I wanted the win. I wanted to celebrate, I wanted to enjoy the fans".

His mistake was that he became overly eager, closed the distance too much while trying to force the pace, got taken down by the ground fighter, and submitted.

One of the commentators said and reiterated numerous times in his post fight analysis, that the composure of the winning fighter is what allowed him to take the win.

And I would guess myself, that that composure came in the form of focus on what he was doing, just like in the aforementioned exercise, the focus on relaxation bore the most effective results.

Where as the opposite is said for the loosing fighter.
He lost his focus on the present, considering to much the spoils of the win (became overcome by his ego, one could say).



I guess now the question is, the degree to which one can maintain their focus, their presence of mind, not allow themselves to be overcome by the ego; what is it that determines this?

Why did one fighter hold that focus, and what made the unsuccessful fighter loose it?

Perhaps simply a state of conscious focus and determination?
Stems from lifestyle/overall mentality perhaps?

Apologies, going slightly off topic

...what determines our lifestyle (ultimately asking, why or how did the winning fighter gain the edge?)..

Pre-destination?
God's will?
Astrological forces?
Being educated and aware as to ones actions and the results of them actions - making the necessary lifestyle forfeits in certain areas in order to make space and thusly make gains in other areas?

Isn't the latter common sense in many ways?


Apologies again, perhaps just ignore this post - the thought just popped into my head and I thought it best to write it down :)

Just a quick note guys: "loose" is okay as in the opposite of "tight", "lose, losing" are for the opposite of "win, winning".

8-)

wow that's an amazing fight. Goes to show it ain't over until it's over.

I think a master knows the perfect balance of ego to have because too much and too little are both equally dangerous. In Japan people tend to have the problem of too little ego, whereas we Westerners tend to have too much.

The parts that make up the ego are largely influenced and programmed by life experiences, especially early praental influences - essentially its full of false and limited perceptions of our self and life...

when one can slip out of the ego (all relatively speaking as in 'never' 100% in or out) then one is less limited by the ego limits...

if a student can take a class or listen to a trainer or coach less in the ego they will learn fucking fast - at least relative to trying to learn from the ego

The punch or the kick in the moment is more important than the win in the future.

Each moment is where it is at and the cumulative effect will bring you closer to a win or not. The more focused and composed and into each moment you are the better your chances of winning I think.

Winning the fight is in the future - right now, right now - the moments of the fight - the moments of the break - use them well is my opinion.

If your focus and energy is the future your focus and energy is not in each moment of the fight.

The ego is a complicated thing and being cocky isn't the only manifestation of the ego...

Do it, engage, focus, let go... action, now

What about famous freshman Harvard dropouts? Particularly Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates? They didn't exactly swallow their ego and take in everything from their teachers..

There are always exceptions and always many angles and always perceptions. Performing and business can be different also.

"take in everything from teacher..."

One can swallow the ego and take in what the teacher is offering and then decide what works for them and what doesn't. being in a receptive place as a student, emptying the cup, doesn't mean you can't think for yourself. The truth is, in my opinion and experience the only teacher anyone has is themselves. Take it in, receive it, get the ego out of the way so you can get what the teacher is sharing, so you are not fighting it and seeing how it isn't cause you think you know best - you allow and absorb... then you keep what works for you and discard the rest, You also learn from what doesn't work for you.

It doesn't mean be a mindless bowing down slave disciple.

the thing is a different perspective can't really be seen untill you get it - then you take it or leave it. But you can't get it without first emptying the cup - see it there way and then you can see better if it works for you or not.

I see this over and over in MuayThai (and my life) and I have experienced it with MuayThai. I didn't like somethings the Thais did and I also didn't get it... yrs later I got it and then realized why and some things I kept and some I left but until I got their perspective and reasons and understanding (at least to the degree I did) i couldn't have got it - just not possible to get a different perspective from your own perspective.

And as i let go (degrees) of ego with some of my teachers in MuayThai (not saying my ego is gone LOL no) then i started to see things differently - then I had more than one perspective and I could step back (at times) and because I wasn't always stuck in one way of looking at it.

But to get there it is much much easier to take it in and empty the cup

for the record my cup is often very full but sometimes i recall to poor a little out LOL

Well, whats the purpose of the ego?

Or the inflated ego, as the case may be..

Or as in a case mentioned above, the self-righteous "counter ego", if you will.

Why would someone take on that delusional projection?

So this, the way I would see it, is someones everyday mentality, being transferred into their approach in the gym.

A perfect example being, as mentioned, the feeling of being "above" being able to take on someone else's teaching.

Or in some cases, attempting to "teach" someone else, in an effort to effectively condescend to them, and thus elevate one's own sense of themselves.

Well, I'm sure it takes many forms; but again, it's a means to what end exactly?


One would imagine it's an effort to elevate ones social status perhaps?

The way they are viewed and regarded among their peers?

To elevate their status/attempt to make them more desirable, among the opposite sex?

And how does it do this?
Effectively others "buying into" the delusional projection of the inflated ego..

For example, I don't know what you'd call them; the "bad boys", swaggering about town.

What is it that makes these guys tough?
Are they very good fighters or something?

I believe it's others effectively "buying into", or being duped into, in effect, the projection of "toughness" or being intimidated by their demeanor, and that feedback of intimidation serves to provide the instigator with a feeling of power perhaps?

Thus feeding their ego, but by false means.

And perhaps when that's the priority, to feed the ego, as oppose to attaining then genuine feeling of achievement, through actual achievement, or whatever else; or using that projection as a means to achieve what is desired, then our motives and thusly our actions, become mis-balanced.

And an example of thus is the fight above.
Where the initially winning fighter, by his own admission, wanted, not for his own sense of personal satisfaction, to win the bout, but rather for the pleasure the ego would take in the adoration he would receive for the win.

This was his downfall.

How can we eliminate this from being a motive and thus benefit from the resulting positive gains?


Does any of that make any sense? :)

Two other views on the process

[quote]
The general interpretation of the "big ego" is a public display of superiority as a means to compensate for internal inadequacies and insecurities.


However if you ask a philosopher or psychiatrist I think they what have a different definition that addresses the process and nature of the self.
[/quote]

A fighter must have an ego that always wants to do better and to win. This just needs to be matched by self control, good sense and brains. I don't want braggarts, especially if they can't back it up, but thats not ego, it's often driven by either poor self confidence or in the drive for self promotion. IMO no ego = no self confidence. What fighter wants to go out always thinking he/she will lose? Can still be humble and have a strong, positive ego. Bigger problems are caused by excessive egos from the non competiters, that being "some" coaches, promoters, sanctioning body officals etc.

I agree with you Marco S, the person i'm writing about is an extreme case of the "big ego" to make up for personal inadequacies, only with her it's through passive aggression therefore making it a lot creepier. It's so extreme it's like a cartoon, and seeing this thread inspired me to write an article on it on my site, which is in my profile. I think women can make the dojo atmosphere a lot more stressful for everyone on this point, men don't seem to have this problem.

Example 1, one time I said it's cold to my sensei and she RUNS from the other side of the room to close the door that was right behind me.

Example 2, practices ends and she regularly BOLTS out the door down the stairs out the building to put away the advertising sign of our dojo in its place in the alley way.

Example 3, our sensei usually makes minimal movement to counter us in sparring because he's a real professional and is able to make the right response at the right time with least effort. He's a MASTER. She tries to imitate that and just stand completely still as she's punched and kicked and then she loses control and gets upset.

Example 4, when practice ends we say "osu, arigatou-gozaimashita" to our sensei then senpai in turn, and with her she says it very loud and with verbratto.

I think some people treat martial arts like it's a holy experience, and it is in many respects. But like world religions, the zealots are the scariest of the whole bunch.

"Attitude
Posted: 2011-02-01 22:18:35
I don't want braggarts, especially if they can't back it up, but thats not ego, it's often driven by either poor self confidence or in the drive for self promotion."

Would it be fair to say that this is referring to the "inflated ego" - I think the ego is a part of any normal psyche, just when you have the aforementioned situation, it's generally referred to (incorrectly) as having an ego, or a big ego.

What I'm trying to see in a better light is, when the motive for someones training or fighting is to reap the rewards of a win, whatever they may be, this can often detract from their training and performance.

I'm sure there's a balance, as I'd imagine anyone who gets a win or competes in the sport, enjoys the kudos that goes with it.

But when it goes to excess, then that's the problem - the way I see it at least.

And that was shown with the fight posted above.
That was the loosing fighters downfall - that he wanted to get the win quick, and therefore he pushed to hard and lost as a result.

Well the reason I'm asking, to be perfectly honest, is that I used to have a serious problem with over-training, so much so that it led to a series of injuries.

It was suggested on this forum actually, that it may have something to do with a lifestyle mis-balance, or mentality mis-balance (these two, I have since come to believe, are very closely related), which was indeed correct.

But I discovered that the a change in lifestyle also led to a change in motives for training in the sport.

Or not even so much a change, as a jettison, as such, of certain motives, and thus, that which was pushing or driving me to over-train was negated, and my training came much better into balance.

I haven't had an injury since.

It is impossible not to have an ego in my opinion.

The question is is it the ego that runs you or can you operate beyond the ego enough to to that to a degree at times and enough to teach the ego to work for your goals and not against them.

About 70% of the ego is the mother and father parts of our ego which is the parts of our subconscious that treat (praise, punish, support, criticize etc) us in almost the same (or rebel and opposite) as how we experienced! being treated by our parents.

The ego becomes much more functional and healthy and supportive when the conscious adult chooses to act on ones own accord which may be similar or opposite to parents but often something completely different.

(this is my understanding of human nature and many may disagree - but the ego parts often operate without much, or any, awareness of the individual)

How many times have you seen examples of people turning into their parents - that is literally childhood programming - not good or bad but the way it works as I understand it.

Many people respond with an automatic unquestioning - "I can think for myself" - in my experience many many parts of the self are not in conscious awareness but with observation it is often quite easy to see some examples at least.

Winning is so focused on that the fear of loosing seems to be deeply embedded in the subconscious.

Loosing and failure in our western culture has some deep and strange aspects...

Consider a baby learning to walk - she falls... if its not seen negative by the parents, the child doesn't develop and negative perspective of falling and life goes on.

In falling she learns how to fall - learns how to catch self and not get hurt or minimize damage - this also teaches confidence in challenging balance because even if a fall happens she knows she is safe (relative to development and abilities)

She also learns how top get up again and walk again. Getting up after falling is huge!! The greats mostly seem to have over come many "falls" - M Jorden to Churchhill

Loosing - is learning and depending on how its viewed is a great great learning tool.

In falling she learns why and how and therefore learns to walk better.

Winning is everything is like walking is everything and falling bad and the development is greatly limited in my opinion and experience.

Questions - why the need to win? Where does that come from? Why is it so important?

Just my tupence on the drive to win - human nature seems to revolve around the will to evolve.
Upon considering it, I guess that's the real purpose of our being here.

The universe is ever expanding/evolving, I guess we're just following suit.

In competition, the will to win - when we loose, we learn, and thus evolve from that loss.
But it was the drive to win that took us to that point.

It's also in human nature to capitalize on or exploit a vulnerability that we find in something/someone.

When the vulnerability is exploited, the victim, in a sense, learns to deal with his/her/it's vulnerability, thus, in a sense, becoming stronger, and therefore evolving.

These aspects of our nature all seemed to be geared toward evolution.


I think the internet is a very good example, as it was developed initially for military use. That is to say, it was developed initially as a means to capitalize on a vulnerability withing the opposition.

And I think it's arguably one of the greatest steps in modern technological evolution.

Human nature huh? There are societies that have games in which you work together and there is no winner. I think culture went this way largely due to grains - farming meant settling instead of following the meat. That means land and property to protect (ironically I think brain chemistry and hormones from over use of grain consumption - especially today with the way we process also puts the brain more into the reptilian brain and fight or flight...

correction - I think in sociology they say the mother and father parts of the adult ego are about 70% (also child parts of ego etc)


Nature is symbiotic and works together - man fights everything.

Evolution or de-evolution?

Hmmm, not sure I understand your philosophy there entirely....nature works together, man fights everything?

I'm guessing you wouldn't in concurrence with mike tysons philosophy that humans are all, by nature, hateful, spiteful, jealous and resentful, of and toward each other?
Always in search of power; always looking and willing to trample the person in front to get on top, get where/what they want.

Perhaps it depends to some degree of the nature and disposition of the particular individual..?

Hello, just to take from this post but change the topic ever so slightly... and i do apologise if this has been covered before.
However on the note of relaxation, how or what do people do/think to help them relax when training/sparring etc.

I tend to be very tense when doing both and i'll completely agree that it makes me very rigid and as a result i lose technique, speed, power and can be spotted coming from a mile off. I am still a youngling in the world of Muay Thai as i am only coming up to the year marker, however i used to do Karate many moons ago and suffered the same problem there...

Any advice would be useful, from what i have read here i agree completely and it has helped open my mind that bit more.
So any hints or tips?

Thanks

Unless body awareness and learning relaxed to start it can be tough to change motorprograms and mental conditioning that keeps one tight in my opinion. That said of course anyone can -

In the ideal world I would back off on training to a pace and power level that you can stay relaxed in - even if you have to go to only shadow and controlled back work - if you can relax on pads or sparring great (these are a little harder) Back off to a degree you can be relaxed and pick it back up only when you can stay relaxed at the intensity and level you're at...

I find humming can help a lot - I actually hum without trying especially when sparring hard (I didn't even realize till it was brought to my attention.

TRYING HARD = lots of effort and tension - "a good effort" and giving 110% etc generally creates stress and tension in my experience - Not about trying its about DOING!

Let go of right and wrong
A baby learns to stand but when learning to walk falls. It, in my opinion and experience, is a huge mistake to think of the fall as bad in anyway. (the child will interpret falls from the parents reactions etc)...

In falling the child learns how to fall (catch self) which is huge - it seems we are all about not falling - but learning to fall creates a comfort level and teaches the child how to fall safely - this gives them more confidence to challenge themselves more cause falling is not that big a deal anyone.

The child also learns about getting back up again and doing it again and I think anyone can see clear benefits from that.

Also the trip, or balance that happened to create the fall is learned and corrections are made and the child learns to walk.

The way we are raised generally and the way our school systems are is all about right and wrong and A's and F's and 'falling' in training is subconsciously ingrained to a huge degree (regardless of coach) as being bad - but it is in the falling that we grow so much.

So I think this applies to the stress of getting it right in training and the tension that follows.

Another aspect I feel is the ego (all have) needs of validation which many athletes and fighters project into fighting/performing etc the stress, subconscious or otherwise is DOing good enough to be worth something - It is my understanding that humans seek validation from the father (inspiration from the mother) and therefor it is the fathers job to validate the child - everyone I have ever met (regardless of intention) seems to get more validation from DOing than from BEing. Praised for A's and punished for F's - praised for walking, praised for doing what mommy and daddy want from you (not saying praise isn't good - just think more energy and emotion should be put on praise for existing that for doing according to what others want from you...

The fathers job is then to pass on how to validate self to the child - another thing I have seen very very few examples of (everything inn degrees of course) - so the mother and father parts of the adult ego tend to learn to judge and praise the self how we were praised and punished -

Now the 'feelings' that come with praise (validation) are confused by the child with love (love being something we are hard wired to experience) - you FEEL loved when getting spanked or sent to room or yelled at??? Fuck no - the child FEELS loved when getting happy emotions from praise (also learns that it needs to take care of the emotional welling of parents ("I'm not happy with you and I'll punish you" "You make me happy with how good you do"

Remember this is not if parents love not - this is the child experience and there for the childs reality...

So we grow up with the stress of having to perform to be good enough and worthy and loved and I think that comes through BIG in performing, sports and certainly combat sports...

So going into the gym with the attitude of it is ok to fall and you are where you're at and there is no wrong only learning and growing. Bring on the character of a fighter or the archetype of a warrior and create the fighter role as you want it and then just do that - let go of who you think you are in the gym and be what you want - let go of all the bull shit having to get it right and trying hard and just fucking do!

You get hit - yes!, you fall, YES! as long as you learn from it and it will propel you in the direction you want to go.

I sat back and observed my daughter learning to walk and swim etc
I took the approach of she is her own teacher and as long as no serious injury was likely she was on her own or could ask for help... She learned to fall and she is way more agile and confident on her feet than most kids her age... With swimming - we taught her nothing and she literally swims under water - started before 2) I did not praise her for her natural development - it is not a huge deal to learn to walk - its normal - I encouraged sometimes and did praise a little but very low energy relative to the praise I give her for just being there - for living and she is DOing herself

she is her own teacher and she is learning cause and effect - what happens when she falls, why and how to deal with and how to get up - if I didn't let her fall or "oh are you ok!!! let MR (ego needs to be needed) take care of you" - that pulls awareness of herself and the experience and forces her to focus on parent and off herself

its long and complicated and thats parts of the big pic but maybe a few of you will get something out of it agree or not :)

Thats excellent, just what i needed to read actually.

Truth and point well spoken and well made, so thank you it has helped!

Thank you very much =)

Ben

You are very welcome and thank you for that too as as i write or think I get new angles and ways of explaining the concepts and experiences in my head.

Own it! Own your training and your strengths and weaknesses - own your own learning - own your own training...

My approach with teaching now is to get the 'students' or fighters to feel there own balance and not look to be told how they should stand differently - to feel the ease or difficulty doing it different ways, to feel the power so THEY KNOW what it is all about. Not just trying to parrot the teacher - I have found huge leaps and bounds in speed of development when they take their own learning into their own hands - they take their power back. They look at themselves instead of to the teacher...

This is a whole other story with competing I think - many western fighters are still doing what teacher told as opposed to naturally letting their training come out in a way they have integrated and internalized and EXPERIENCED what it is for them - big big difference in my opinion and experience

This is a good thread for many fighters to read. Ego is useful in training and pre fight 'mind games', but once the fighting starts it gives you no benefits, only hardships.

Fighting with one's ego is fighting on an emotional level, and when you fight emotionally you don't make sound decisions.

Getting in the zone / zen, conceptually is exactly that. That perfect circumstance where things just click in place, time appears to slow down, and decisions are made free of any ego interference.

The problem with many UFC fighters is that they take their egos into the ring, and then get mentally broken in fights, and then struggle to take the loss properly and develop further as a fighter. You can often see where in the fight they snap mentally, and then the loss is inevitable. I personally love watching ego fighters get beat at their own game, like when a puncher takes on a grappler but the grappler decides to beat him at his own game at stand up. Some of the facial expressions when that eventuates are priceless.

I'm not so sure that ego is fighting on an emotional level...

I think the home of the ego is the mind...thinking...

Fighters lost in their ego do often fight emotionally (use anger to overcome fear etc...). I think its a balance between the emotions and thinking - its the type of emotions and type of thinking... Positive emotional state for performance include include the sense of challenge, feeling strong and confident in ones self and one's abilities (as opposed to being about beating someone else), sense of curiosity, courage, drive and a certain level of enjoyment.

Balance - the left and right hemispheres of the brain (left "thinking" and right "feeling) as well as all the other aspects of the two sides...

zone - zen etc

I agree - the more out of ego you are the more you and slip into the state of being related or called 'the zone' or a 'zen state'.

the thinking isn't getting in the way and the feeling isn't getting in the way (the mind isn't getting in the way)- but they are functioning - almost as a recording or observation of what is happening... be it the higher self, the subconscious an altered state or whatever label or explanation you can give... it happens and its experienced more of a ride than being in control it seems to me...

The strong focus on winning (and for many that usually means not loosing) and the emotions, judgments and fears around that tends to keep one out of a zen state or the zone etc

At least thats my opinion and expereience