Whats everyones opinion on them?

Should i use them when bulking up??

Also what are the thoughts on Creatine etc

I use them after workouts and between meals to save me eating crap - get them without aspartame (especially if you read the post on this forum). I'm using Reflex One Stop just now, which includes low-glaecymic carbs - ground up oats, I think - as well as plenty protein and 5g of creatine per serving. A bit sweet, but I'm getting used to it.

Re the creatine - opinions vary. There are reports that it's not good for your heart and stuff, as well as reports that say it's perfectly fine. Creatine occurs naturally in things like meat, and from my admittedly-limited knowledge all it does is encourage your muscle cells to hold onto water with the result that you're stronger, your muscles are more 'pumped' and can recover more quickly. Never had any problems with it myself and I've used it a few times - worth a go, in my opinion.

Where are you based? If it's UK look at www.affordablesupplements.co.uk for cheap creatine and protein, or www.bulkpowders.com for really cheap unflavoured stuff.

My experience is that most people cannot digest the protein well and as a general rule I wouldn't use.

The ones that are decent quality are very expensive in general and even then, many won't digest them well.

Note how much gas, bloating etc you get.
Keeping in mind if you stop them to see if gas/bloating changes, that you may be getting that from multiple sources.

You can always muscle test if they are good for you or a specific product is.

Strength is directly related to the health of your internal organs and digestive system. Most protein powders are garbage (IMO&E) and will effect digestion which means it effects the digestion of everything else you eat too.

If you go for cheap - guaranteed not worth it IMO&E

Learn to muscle test and you can test any food for YOU. No matter what any 'expert' tells you, you can ask your body.

I could show you in seconds if a powder made you stronger or weaker.

I would bet 95% or more of the ones out there will make you weaker and effect digestion and be toxic to the body.

My opinion at this point in time.

Interesting points Mark - not one I've heard before. Just out of interest, how can taking in additional protein reduce strength? The one I'm using certainly appears to be one of the better-quality manufacturers, but that's maybe just good marketing.

I do recognise the problem of increased gas, though... nasty!

The whole body is connected.

In a heart attack the feeling is in the shoulder/arm etc This is because the heart is connected at the same spinal segment as the shoulder/arm (left isn't it?)

Gas is a signal that can mean what you are eating isn't digesting and it is effecting the gut. That alone will effect any nutrients, building blocks, and energy you could potentially get from the food you eat. Your digestive health is very related to strength in many ways. One big one is when the digestive system is stressed the related muscles through the spinal segments are also stressed. This is a lot of core stuff and ALL strength is effected greatly by your core. Digestive issues will effect core strength.

Basically stomach (for example) has an issue - sends a message to the spinal segment saying "I have an issue" that spinal segment(s) sends a msg to the brain saying "we have a problem down here". Brain gets the msg and sends back the signal to act like there is a problem. The trouble is when the brains msg gets to the spinal segment that segment sends on the msg too everything connected there..skin, muscle, organs etc etc

Getting gas from a food is saying you are not digesting it anyway. Why eat it if it is not digesting? What are you getting from it if it is not digesting. As you ruin your digestive system it effects more and more of ALL you eat.

Most milk is crap - most milk to make whey protein being crap makes the whey protein crap.

When I first went to my strength coach he said to stop all suppliments (except gave me some recommendations like omega 3's, coconut oil and high quality pro biotics) and get off the protein powder. On top of course was a nutrition plan.
My life changed!

Read the milk thread and remember that whey protein is made from milk.

Number 1-listen to your body, not what anyone says. Gas is not saying this is good for me.

By the way, any shoulder pain?

When you start to get a better feel and understanding you can start to look at someones muscles etc and get a guess at stuff going on.

Ever wonder why some people work out like crazy and might have a nice looking body (to the untrained eye) except their lower abs bulge out?

Or you work and work and work on your abs with no results?

When the digestive organs related to the lower abs are inflamed it essentially shuts the lower abs off.

One might call this a flaw in the human design. My thought is that if we listen to our body it tells all.

In fact I often figure out peoples emotional blocks and or past memories by looking at what areas of the body they have issues with. Its hard to believe for me but it turns out correct time and time again. The Chinese had this mapped out way back and so do the Indians etc

Western Medicine is about cutting, drugging and burning - if not one of the above it actually doesn't classify as medicine (legally I think).

Nothing to do with health. All to do with sickness. Lots to do with money.

Mark, dunno if you were asking me but my shoulder joints click a hell of a lot, although don't actually hurt. In fact, my hips and knees click and crack like nothing else - I'm only 27, by the way.

Why do you ask? Is digestive discomfort connected to the shoulders? Quite often when I have my shake in the afternoon my stomach feels really bloated and, well, crap, for want of a better word. Lasts a couple of hours.

Never noticed any problems with my shoulders, though. I have to admit my initial reactions to some of the stuff you say about everything being connected is one of cynicism, but I think that's more down to a lack of knowledge in this area than anything else - certainly no disrespect intended.

I have noticed some of the bodybuilders like Ronnie Coleman have really badly distorted abs, but I just figured that was something to do with steroids? Not that I'm suggesting Ronnie Coleman uses steroids, before I'm sued. Clearly his freaky physique is down to hard workouts, diet and genetics...

I have heard of some connections with protein powders and shoulders. I can easily think of how it effects them, but it effects the whole body. Having heard of some specifics connections but not knowing much about it I thought i'd put it out there and start to get some feed back. I intend to look into it more.

One thing, more general, is that the core supports the shoulders and hips. There is a criss cross of fascia that tightens when the core is activated that attaches to to shoulders and hips. This is easy to demonstrate in a few minutes. The strength of the shoulder girdle with core activated or not activated. My understanding though is that there might be something even more specific.

A couples hours of bloating is your body feeding back info that something you are ingesting is not digesting properly and causing inflammation.

No matter what 'science' (so they say when selling) says about anything the bigger truth is your bodies response.

The world was always round even when the belief was it was flat. Galileo's finds with his telescope were a tangible but the 'experts' at the time wrote off the info cause it didn't fit in their belief system. They wouldn't even look in it to see.

Your intention of respect or disrespect cannot effect me. My thoughts around it can. :) Thank you for sharing your thought on that.

An open mind to me does not mean just accepting things. It means taking them in and realizing that we don't know everything. Its being able to say "this isn't in my belief system or experience but I wonder if it could be true for me".
Its saying, "I don't know if this is true or this goes against my programming and experience, but I am curious if there might be something that resonates with me or if I might have an experience that could show me if it is true for me or not."

This type of thinking allows the possibility. It moves us more out of ego and 'knowing' and opens us up to the possibility that we don't know everything.

Dr Albert E -"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

Knowledge is knowing and limited to what we already know - funnily as we grow and change knowing seems to change a lot.

Medical text book facts are constantly changed. Coming from the point of view that we already know something closes us off to expansion and the possibility of a different truth or that what we know might not even be true.

So your attitude, in my perception, suggests to me that you not stuck in ego saying "yes!" or "no!". I hear "well, so far, my experience is this, my belief system seems to say this and I wonder if that is limited or if there is a possibility that there might be something I don't know"

It is recognizing parts and allowing for possibilities of either learning something knew, in terms of a new concept, or possibly reconfirming what you already belief by allowing it to be reconsidered.

Not being able to look at possibilities or not allowing the thought that what we believe might only be our perception at this point in time, to me means, we are operating out of ego who needs to hold onto beliefs to validate them and self.

Considering anyones thoughts to see if they may contain anything that for you, will strengthen your existing beliefs (if you find they do not work for you) or offer and opportunity to move towards a different view that is becoming true for you.

Thinking about what others share is always a win win. Ultimately agreeing or disagreeing or considering that that works for them and not for you is a step forward and more experience in your 'knowing' - in my perception and opinion at this time.

The question is for me - does it work for me? does it make sense to me? what is my experience if I do this?

My experience from using protein powders is gas and bloating. My experience with how I feel when I avoid things that bloat me is that I have more energy and feel better and get stronger and healthier. Therefore gas and bloating, to me, are somethig to avoid.

My studies support this. Without the experience of it it would be 'knowing' with the experience it becomes 'knowledge' or 'wisdom' for ME.

Someone elses experience may be totally different.

(my experience in observing others is that gas and bloating and digestive issues are related to food etc and realte to health, strength and energy.

I do know some people that seem to do well on some protein powders - truth is they take really expensive ones. Sometimes derived from goats milk and often from grass fed non-medicated cows and best yet from milk that has NOT been pasturized. This shit is expensive and rare.

My suggestion is to become more sensitive to the body and to start to trust your bodies innate wisdom and its signals to you no matter what anyone says!

What works for you may be vastly different than what works for me.

If you are short and stocky will it work for you to try to mimic Diesel Noi?

If you are Eskimo will it work for you to go on a vegitarian diet?

If you have an intolerance to carrots will eating carrots be good for you?

No matter what is true for someone else it is what works for you.

Muscle testing is a simple and great way to have a feed back mechanism of what is right for you.

If I have a client hold and apple and they test strong then there will be more good than harm from them eating and apple. If they test weak then there will be more harm than good from eating it.
(side note- depending on how you test the info is for right at the moment of the test. If you ate four apples and tested with an apple you would likely be weak. That doesn't mean apples are not good for you it means right now it is not. If you were over hydrated you may test weak to water-depends on how you test)

It takes out all theory and knowing and is a direct response from your body.
(this too is what works for me and from my experience :P)

"The body cannot lie."

I have yet to test someone strong on typical protein powders, soy, vegetarian, vegan, processed milk (dairy-except yogurt)...maybe there are people out there that might. I intend to be open to that possibility. As of yet it has not been my experience.

You can test n multis, different supplements etc
IF someone is selling something or only testing on their product beware. The tester CAN get in the way and influence the test.

I have done blind tests where I nor the person being tested knew what we were testing and results add up.

Blind test on soy and you will almost for sure get weak for example.

Mark L -

I sometimes use hemp seed protien powder. Its natural plant protien, contains all of the essential amino acids, is naturally high in omega 3 & 6 and is high in fibre. Sounds great but it causes me some bloating, especially when i mix it into a smoothie. Any advice?

Listen to your body - it (you) already knows.
If your body is bloating when you eat something....

(keep in mind when not healthy you will get mixed signals from the body - cravings for example)

Become your own health expert for you. You will always know your body best. "Experts" should be there as consultants for YOU. IMO&E

Anybody know about the 'Musashi' line of protien products?

Good / Bad etc..

Musashi Creatine Bar - Apricot

Manufacturer: Musashi

Category: Supplement
Cost: .... $4-6
Available from: Health Food Stores, Sports Stores, Supplement Stores, some Grocery Stores

Ingredients: Glucose and high fructose Syrup (De-ionised Pear Juice), Maltodextrin, Whey Protein Concentrate, Soy Protein Isolate, Calcium Caseinate, Oat Bran, Rice Bran, Crisp Brown Rice, Humectant (sorbitol), Apricot pieces (7.5%), Sultanas, Acid (citric acid), Natural flavours, creatine monohydrate, colours (102, 122, 123, 133)

1st two ingredients sugar and sugar

2nd Maltodextrin has a higher glycemic index than refined sugar. However, maltodextrin, hydrolyzed corn, is often the first or second listed ingredient for products touted as "SUGAR FREE" and promoted for diabetics' use.

whey protein is 3rd - the source of the whey is what determines the quality of it and many people have problems digesting no matter what the quality.

4th Soy - in my opinion garbage

later - natural flavors - I avoid anything that says that... that could mean anything,

colours - yikes

I've just started taking Musashi P40 Protein powder.
First time taking protein.

Ingredients:

Instantised Whey Protein Isolate, Instantised Whey Protein Concentrate, Maltodextrin, Instantised Skim Milk Powder, Oligofructose, Dextrose Monohydrate, Ribose, Linoleic Acid, Medium Chain Triglycerides, LGlutamine, Guar Gum, Flavours, Citric Acid, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Sweetener (955), Thiamine, Vitamin A, Riboflavine (Vitamin B2), Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6), Colours (123,124).

Judging by your above post IYO this stuff is no good.

I thought cos' it was expensive it was good, we'll see.

I'll finish the 2kg tub and see how I go.

In my opinion most are a waste of time and will do more harm than good.

The order of the ingredients is related to the amount so at least the sugars are not first :)

The 'good' stuff is really expensive and never comes in tubs that I have seen. IMO

Thanks Mark.

Helpful as always.

What would you say is the good stuff? Any names of products?

"Good stuff" relative to individual...

Garden of Life has one that is suppose to be quite good quality.
My training parter still bloated up on it.
The one's mercola.com recommend should be pretty good (ignore sales)

The source of whey, to be quality, would need to come from a
healthy animal.. That means grass fed, non-medicated. Many people
will do better on goat dairy also..

http://gardenoflife.com/detail_goatein.shtml
(garden of Life goat protein)


440 grams might be over $40 US!!

I use to think trophic (spel?)
Brad Kings brand were good. Haven't looked into since
I stopped taking protein powders and have changed some opinions
since...

Best thing is to listen to your body.
Learn muscle testing and you can test anything for YOU.

My recommendation - eat meat! Get your creatine there too!
our meat sources are pretty nasty... quality is expensive
you do what you can and let go of the rest...

Bloating is telling you you are wasting your money IMO&E

sorry, i don't mean to sound stupid...
but what's muscle testing??
kate x

There are different types, but an easy and basic...

Basically you test the strength of a muscle and compare relative strength when the body is influenced by different stimulus.

Example - have someone tell the truth and then test, then have them lie and then test and you will find a relative strength difference.

This can be done with foods.

Test the relative strength comparing to base or thinks that you know are good and test strong.

Because everyone is different you find that some people may test strong to apples and some weak.

"The body cannot lie"!

With a little practice this can be used and applied to most anything.


Have a fighter visualize and imagining dominating an opponent. Test them and you will find they are weak.
Have them visualize and imagine do the best they can for them and they test strong.

Can test with any food, and diet, anything the 'experts' claim and see if it is true for you!

With clients, one of the basic ways I use... well today I worked with a woman with some shoulder problems. (remember truth is strong and lies make you weaker)
I had her make statements about her shoulder problem to look for components that may not have been physical.

I had her say. "There is no work related communication issue component to my shoulder pain." she tested weak. (that means there is)
I had her say. "There is no relationship communication related issue to my shoulder pain." Also tested weak.

Interestingly her shoulder pain started (regardless of physical aspects) 8/9 years ago in which there were communication issues going on at work and her relationship.

So instead of just approaching the physical we started to clear out the energetic imbalances related to those emotional memories (which most people don't think they are over - you can muscle test saying "I am completely over this issue" -almost everyone I have ever tested is weak) then you go in and clear it out.

My point is you can use it in many many ways.

Simply holdng a food or protein powder and muscle testing will give you a response.

It gets deeper and more complicated and many many cool applications.
(you can ask the body questions that the conscious mind does not recall for example - find hidden traumas to release or blocked memories etc)

The main thing is it is a technique ANYONE can use to discern the 'truth' for them. No matter what any expert says.

Dr Getoff finds it more reliable than blood testing (which he also does). You can send the same blood with different names to the same place and get different results.

Now there is a skill and art to it but with a little practice anyone can do on anyone. (there are exceptions)

This is a tool that could benefit anyone.

-find out what you are allergic too or what is making you weak. What foods, what music, hell even what books.

On the same note, you can see what makes you strong (what benefits you and is healthy for you)

"The Body Doesn't Lie" is the first book I read on it.
"Power vs Force" is another (Mother Teresa is quoted on the back about it)

With a little practice, if you can get critical mind out of the way, you can muscle test yourself.
I will literally pick up a food in the supermarket and test myself.

When someone speaks to you you could simply test lol You can use other senses, intuition and ways of reading people for that too... but it is an easy way IF you can get yourself and judgment and expectation out of the way.

But with a partner, the regular way, it is relatively easy.

I had a guy think he was over his divorce years ago... I muscle tested him on a physical issue with a statement relating the physical and the divorce... it tested that they were connected. Simply making the connection allowed him to access suppressed emotion and he simply broke down (wasn't even a session, not really private).

(beware of anyone selling anything when they use muscle testing as they CAN influence the test)

There is a thread in which I tried to explain the how to (prob called muscle testing)

Been taking Musashi P40 Protein powder for about three weeks now.

Really seeing a difference in muscle development. Recovery times have also improved.

I have more energy to train more often. Mostly BJJ and some stand up. Weights only once or twice a week.

Lots of gas an some bloating tho'.

also the stuff aint cheap so I may only keep it up till the end of the year.

I'll keep posting my findings for those that are interested.

Bloating, in my understanding, means you are shutting off core function as if an organ has an issue it affects the muscles connected at that spinal segment(s).

examples
Heart attack, the muscles in the shoulder and arm that are connected to the same spinal segment are what you notice.

also women may feel pain in their back and sometimes down their legs during their period due to the connections between the female organs and the related muscles

The brain gets the signal from the spinal segment that something is going on and doesn't know what on that spinal segment is messed up. So it tells everything on that spinal segment to act like something is messed up. So the muscles respond to an organ being messed up. So bloated stomach means the spinal segment tells the brain that somethig is wrong and the brain tells the spinal segment to act like something is wrong and the spinal segment tells everything connected there to act like something is wrong, not just the stomach but the connected organs etc

What goes on in the gut has direct affects on the brain. Seretonin levels in the brain are the same as in the gut for example. How many people take drugs for seretonin levels? Loads? Yet it is directly related to what goes in the gut.

Shutting off core function makes you weaker. Creates segmental instability in the spine (and shoulders, and hips, hell in the whole really)

If you even agree with my opinion, some possible questions might be, is the increased energy and muscle gain worth instability, disrupted core and health (proper core function also affects cerebral spinal fluid being pumped and washing the ANS etc) and are there other ways? the answer might be yes or no.

IF you even agree. :)

Well that put a damper on things

Depending how you look at it. Experiencing your body communicating with you is pretty cool though. Imagine what could happen if you listen more and start to hear it more. :)

i drink protein shakes along side training, and i dont get bloated or get gas, so is my body accepting the protein?

Its late, so i'll make a quick note.
IMO Protein powders work, BUT they are a supplement!! They should complement your diet. As a rule of thumb you want to ingest 1.5 - 2Grams of protein for each KG of body weight which if you are a "decent" size can be hard to do.
I used to be an athlete to a high standard and had to get everything right! Training combined with a busy schedule made protein powders & meal replacement drinks a vital asset.

I ALWAYS have a shake within 30mins of a work out. It is recommend you take one before but I find it can sit on my stomach before Thai Boxing (plus I take mine with milk.
I'm 95Kg and have a shake make from 25gs - 40gs of protein in a shake.
More isn't always better, its just excess calories & additional work for the body (+ a waste of money)
As for bloating & wind....... Try letting it settle for a min or 2 before you drink it, when you shake it to mix it you introduce a lot of air into it!!! I have cut down my gas quite a lot by doing this.

If you can get all your protein from varied sources then lucky you (although I would still add that a good Whey Protein is ingested quickly into the system making it available to the body ASAP. I suggest a different protein source each meal of you can (Egg white, Chicken, Turkey, Beef, Whey powder, ect)

Hope this is of some help....... sorry you any spelling or errors in grammar!

P.