Babies' Mental Delay Tied to Moms' Vegan Diet
Thu Jan 30, 4:40 PM ET Add Health - Reuters to My Yahoo!


By Alison McCook

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - The breast-fed infants of two mothers who did not eat any animal products, including milk and eggs, developed brain abnormalities as a result of a vitamin-B12 deficiency, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (news - web sites) (CDC) reported Thursday.



The primary sources of vitamin B12, which is essential for brain development, are animal products like meat, dairy products and eggs. Since the mothers ate little or no animal products, too little vitamin B12 was transmitted to their children through breast milk, according to the CDC's Dr. Maria Elena Jefferds.


Jefferds added that these cases serve as a reminder to parents and pediatricians to ensure that both pregnant women and mothers who breast-feed their infants consume enough B12, either through diet or B12-containing supplements.


"You have to make sure you're getting it," she said, in reference to vitamin B12.


And don't abandon breast-feeding altogether, Jefferds cautioned. Breast-feeding has many advantages, and mothers who choose to not eat animal products should still continue to breast-feed their infants.


"Vegetarians should absolutely breast-feed, there's no question about that," she said.


In the January 31st issue of the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, Jefferds and her colleagues describe the cases of two babies who showed signs of brain abnormalities as a result of a deficiency in vitamin B12.


In one case, doctors examined and diagnosed the deficiency in a 15-month-old child with slow growth and mental development. Her mother said she had avoided consuming all animal products for many years, and had breast-fed the baby for 8 months after birth.


After receiving supplements of vitamin B12, the child began to improve, but was still below her age group in speech and language at 32 months of age.


Jefferds explained in an interview that many children fully recover from vitamin-B12 deficiencies but that, in some cases, a prolonged period of low consumption of vitamin B12 can cause irreversible damage.


"I think it really depends on how severe the deficiency was, and how long it was taking place for," she said.


She added that while both children described in the report showed lingering symptoms of low vitamin B12, over time, those impairments may disappear.


The initial symptoms of low vitamin B12 in infants are often vague and not obvious, Jefferds noted. She recommended that doctors keep the possibility of a deficiency "on their radar screen," and ask mothers if they eat animal products or take supplements that contain enough vitamin B12, also known as cobalamin.


Vegans eat only plant-based foods, using grains, legumes, fruits and vegetables to fill all their dietary needs. Vegetarians, on the other hand, typically avoid meat, but may eat some animal products, such as milk, eggs and possibly fish.


SOURCE: Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report 2003;52:61-64.

you would at least think that the 2 mothers would consult their doctors and mention that they are vegans or their doctor might have said something in regards to their diets whilst they were pregnant to check if they are getting the right amounts of vitamins e.g folate (which they say is quite important during pregnancy I hear). Just because your a vegan/vegetarian doesn't mean to say your completely and utterly healthy, your still missing out on some vitamins like the B12 and of course iron which is important to women to circulate the oxygen in their blood but if you take some sort of supplements at least your still getting your daily needs.

What about the thousands of brain damaged from meat eating mothers?

Thanks Lollo!! Exactly!

You can be a Vegan/Vegeterian and have ample b12, you just have either make sure you are getting it in your diet, or taking a supplemet. Articles like that give a totally biased view of Veganisim/vegeterianiasm, painting the picture that they dont care about their children.. the fact is most vegans/veges are very caring compassionate people, hence their chioce of lifestyle (avoiding contributing to the suffering of others.).

Why don't you post an article detailing the huge amount of obesity we are getting in the west, where one of the main sources of fat comes form eating to mcuh red meat, or junk food with meat in it?

Again thanks for backing us badhunters up Lollo.
Ps Lollo Im pumped for my fight on the 15th, training this week has been awsome!!

I noticed a post about Vegan, and really I dont think there is that much difference if you are intelligent with whatever direction you take your diet. But I think the threads were pros and cons.....this is just the first negative thing I have seen related to Veganism.

peopl will just have to learn to eat in moderation and if they do eat a lot of meat go for the low fat and trim cuts as least that would help the colestrol situation and cut down some of the fat intake. Being a vegan can have it's advantages in regards to colestrol but but as brian says make sure your getting enough if not take supplements and i would also agree with you brian there when you said that they are very caring compassionate people, hence their chioce of lifestyle.

I think the problem is that not enough people are intelligent enough about their diet, wether vegan or omnivore, and a lot of vegans do cut meat/dairy out and don't replace what's missing. Similarly a lot of omnivores live on meat, spuds and peas which is no good either. I've heard that refrain often - "of course I eat vegetables, I have peas on a Friday and sprouts with me Sunday roast."

Very true Yug.

That's OK Richie. I feel I have to say it because I'm half-cast vegetarian. Half of my plate is veges and the other half is meat..LOL!

Yeah...this "report" is heavily biased it seems...but it does raise a very good point. This is something that I find myself saying more and more as I continue to eat a vegan diet...that is takes a LOT more effort and knowledge to eat responsibly on a vegan diet. I think the results are potentially better than on an omivorous diet...or at least compared to the majority of omnivorous diets that people follow...but in order to gain the positive results from a vegan diet, it takes effort and studying about things (like vitamin B12).

Brian

btw...a major non-meat source of vitamin B12 are sea vegetables.

Hahaha nice one Lollo..

The most popular vegetarian website (that I'm aware of) has a response to the article written above, if you'd like to read it. It's very informative and does admit to the B-12 deficiency issue with veganism...but explains it in greater detail and shows how greatly exagerated the B-12 deficiency is.

Vegan diet damages baby's brains...sensationalism!

Brian

the west' obesity problem does not stem from meat and fat intake,it comes from foods that are quick to make,full of hydrogenated fats,and highly processed flour and sugar.

meat is not the enemy.whether u like it or not,our bodies are designed to eat both plants and meats.omnivores.from our teeth to our guts.

a harvard study proved that a high fat/protein diet is better than the AHAs recommended diet.they lost more fat,more weight,lowered the bad cholesterol more and raised the good cholesterol more.

doctors gave fat a bad rap,just like they did eggs and salt.they damned these things with no studies,or tests.

imo our diet should consist of meats,greens,fruits,nuts and berries.and there are those that think these things should be consumed seperate from each other.

Asa we all know ! What suits one !! does NOT suit another "!
A little of a lot of things MOSTLY doesnt affect us ! Its the LOT of ONE thing that DOES ! or too much etc:
I think ( and this is NOT against either ! ) But a Vegan and human carnivore BOTH have the EXTREME ! and should take a hint of each others ideals !
I do eat meat BUT a ltd: Amount ! and choose the LOW fats type ones ie: Turkey and chicken ( and defo: take the skin off befire eating them too ! As much of the fats are in that part ! and NOT in the lean meat itself !
I eat loads of veg: and salad WITH my meats ! and i also LOVE fish too ! Which has so many GOOD properties in it !!!!!!
I know a few Veggies whom have stayed a veggie BUT started eating seafood ! (BUT NO land animal meats!_) and say " They feel SO MUCH BETTER " Healthier and fitter and suchlike !
Im also a great believer in water with every meal too! a GREAT NO CALORIE neutralising drink that DEFO: quenches your thirst the MOST !!!
And a "SANDYMAN" `tip`! If you want to lose some weight also ! BUT instead of cutting out the main things you LIKE ! ? Then drink some water just b4 your meal as well as during ! You will FEEL fuller quicker and eat less in total ! BUT whilst still eating the foods you LIKE ! Yes it is simple ! BUT yes it does work ! So the mental cruelty you sometimes endure whilst your on a `4`-Letter word ! "DIET" becomes easier to handle !
Try it !
cheers !

This was brought to you from `Doctor McSandy Mctoo Slim man Holt` ! lol ( 6-8% Body fat still )

There is something that I think is very funny about eating a meat-free diet...something I've observed in how people react to even knowing that I don't eat meat. Often, people take a defensive position in response to knowing that I'm vegan/vegetarian. This is why I try not to say anything about veganism or vegetarianism unless someone else brings it up or asks me directly.

"whether u like it or not,our bodies are designed to eat both plants and meats.omnivores.from our teeth to our guts."

Comments like that...make me laugh. Whether I like it or not? I realize that humans are naturally omnivorous. If you'd care to know the concept behind why I am vegan, I'll share it with you. Our bodies are extremely versatile and adjust to work with our environment, food intake, social interactions, stress levels, whatever we throw at it. We can choose to eat meat exclusively and our bodies will survive for many many years. We can choose to eat vegetables exclusively and our bodies will survive for many many (more) years. We can choose to eat an omnivorous diet, which most people do, and get a good mix of meats and vegetables. Many successful omnivorous diet plans suggest eating mostly vegetables and only limited amounts of meat. You really can't go wrong with eating as many fresh vegetables as your body can take. You may shit a whole lot, but your body will love you for it later.

So, with that said, one of the main reasons why I choose to eat a vegan diet is...because I can. I have the ability in today's modern society to have access to a myriad of plant-based foods that are not naturally from this region of the world but have been shipped from other countries many years ago and they now grow here, or they are shipped directly from overseas. All kinds of grains, greens, legumes, fruit...and foods items like tofu, tempeh, quorn, falafel. These things did not exist in this part of the world 100 years ago like they do now. Now I have a lot of veggie options to get the adequate nutrients that my body needs. Therefore, I no longer need to ask that from animals. Since I like animals, it works for me.

To go deeper into the issue...I believe there is a major unbalance in the earth...between humans and the rest of the planet. Other animals usually have some sort of balance between predator and prey and between them and the environment. Ever since we've started making stone tools, we've stepped past our natural boundaries and have covered most of the globe with our buildings, structures, houses, golf courses, amusement parks. I think we've asked way too much from the rest of the earh...the land, the plants and animals.

If I were on a deserted island and there was nothing to eat but a few plants and some fish...I would eat the plants and the fish. If I were stranded in the Alps like in the movie "ALIVE", I would be the first person to start cutting up the human carcasses and eating them. But I would appreciate what the fish (and the dead humans) have given me, and not expect it simply beacuse I'm human. Right now, I don't live on a deserted island nor am I stranded in the Alps.

Anyway, if it's done properly, I think a vegan diet can be extremely rewarding nutritionally, because you can't help but get lots of vitamins and minerals from the vegetables as well as fiber to clean out your system. Most people don't get enough of those things. With a meat-free diet, there are only a handful of things to be concerned about...things such as vitamin B12...or perhaps allergies to things such as gluten in wheat. With omnivorous diets, there are a LOT more things to consider that are linked to eating meat...such as colon cancer, heart disease, high blood pressure, high cholesterol. Though, unlike other vegans/vegetarians, I don't compare meat-eating to something as harmful as smoking cigarettes. Some vegetarians act as if meat-eating is the same as poisoning yourself. I don't believe that.

I hope that explains most of my reasons for being vegan...and I hope that makes you realize that I don't hate anyone because they are not vegan. So relax.

Good to see WHY you and people do become and have these type of choices in their lifestyles ! God reading that ta
sandy man holt

Yep, very well explained Brian.

Humanity is the only species unable to live in balance with its environment. I sometimes wonder, if all mankind was removed from the face of the earth, would the earth be better off? I think so.

Yug, I think Bin Laden and his mates are working on that. Obviously they agree with you. LOL!

Sandy...but what if they are vegetarians?? LOL!

Brian,
the whether you like it or not was not directed at you.
it was directed at the poster who believes meat is the reason for obesity.i don't know why it would make you laugh.there are ppl who believe you should not eat meat,some even suggest that we are not meant to eat meat.it doesn't mean they are right.ppl could chose to live on pepsi and never drink any water.they could exist on this,but we need water and lots of it.

and by the way,show me the studies that show vegans live longer than meat eaters.and i'm not talking about ppl who consume the SAD diet where meat is a portion of their diet as is vegetables,but ppl who eat just protein and fat.

also,you are making the same assumption that doctors have been making.the omnivorus diet that americans eat is not the omnivorus diet that we are to be eating.doctors assume that since grains are considered good(but they're not)that the villan must be meat.grains are not meant to be eaten.hell u said it yourself.gluten allergies.lactose intolerant.how many ppl u know who r allergic to beef?how many ppl break out in rashes from eggs?how many ppl can not tolerate nuts,real nuts,not peanuts?less than ppl with the above stated conditions.

my friend is diabetic.follows his doctors advice,eats a high carb low fat diet.is not vegan,but limits his meat intake.he gets worse.he is going to have to start taking shots,the pills r not cutting it any more.goes on atkins,guess what?no more meds.loses weight(that he couldn't lose before)and his cholesterol levels are on the money.

now a true vegetarian diet,devoid of grains,would help also.but few are willing to do so.

Here is an interesting article by Paul Chek

Vegetarianism Inside~out


Today, we have many people becoming vegetarians for one or more of the following reasons:

The greatest occurence of cancer cases and other chronic diseases in history.
A growing concern over the health of our ecosystem.
A significant number of people are seeking spiritual grounding in response to a rising fear of Armageddon stimulated by an almost constant, worldwide coverage of war and conflict.
I decided to share my opinions on vegetarianism because in my career I have worked with many unhealthy vegetarians. Often my vegetarian patients were in need of animal nutrition yet, for one or more of the above reasons were initially resistant to my suggested inclusion of animal foods for regaining their health. As you can imagine, it is very challenging as a Holistic Health Practitioner when the patient resists coaching yet wants help at the same time! As a health coach, I applaud questions for they are often legitimate attempts to learn and grow. But it is just as important to see that dogmatic resistance retards education and growth.



If we are to make a genuine attempt to overcome the challenges of disease, environmental destruction, and the fear of Armageddon, you can rest assured we will need to be healthy. This is because health is the foundation for rational thinking and thus crucial to reasoning our way through these issue. To best manage such a significant and emotionally charged topic, I will address several of the common questions asked of me by those wishing to rationalize vegetarianism.



Q: I read and hear in the news all the time that eating red meat is bad for you and that a vegetarian lifestyle is better for your heart and your health in general. Why are you telling me the opposite of what many experts are saying?



Paul Chek: Consider that Weston A. Price traveled the globe studying the diets of native societies in the 1930’s while there were still natives untouched by white man and his processed foods (Nutrition & Physical Degeneration by W.A. Price). His primary result was to show that wherever natives were exposed to processed foods such as white flour and sugar, degeneration and disease soon followed. But he also discovered that there were no healthy vegetarian societies or tribes. While he did find some vegetarians, there were always healthier tribes near by eating meat or animal products. In fact, if you study cultural anthropology one of the things you will find is that the amount of meat eaten by any society was determined not by religious beliefs or health fads, but rather by availability alone. A clear example of this can be seen by looking at the diets of traditional Aboriginals in Australia. The inland Aboriginals eat a diet of approximately 75-90% vegetable and 10-25% animal foods. The coastal Aboriginals, who have access to fish and larger animals like Kangaroo eat about 75% animal and 25% vegetable foods (1).



The whole concept of vegetarianism being safer for your heart is an unfounded, scare tactic fostered by the processed food industry. Before 1920, coronary heart disease was rare (2). Hydrogenation of vegetable oils began around 1910 and between 1910 and 1970 consumption of vegetable oils increased some 400%, while saturated animal fat consumption decreased on the whole. In short, we’ve had a reduction of animal fat consumption, an increase in hydrogenated vegetable oils and an increase in heart disease since 1920. It’s hard to see how consuming less animal fats has made for healthy hearts. Moreover, statistical analysis of chronic disease shows that we are far worse off with today’s dietary recommendations when looked at from a disease perspective.







If viewed from a purely historical perspective, the current dogma over eating meat and heart health is suspect as well. Humans have been eating animal foods as a primary food staple in every part of the world with a winter. This includes the fish eaten in every region near lakes and the ocean. More generally, humans have eaten meat and saturated animal fats throughout an evolutionary history spanning hundreds of thousands of years. If eating meat were as unhealthy as suggested, we’d never have lasted so long.



Q: Won’t eating meat make me too acidic and disrupt the pH of my blood, encouraging disease?



PC: The whole issue of pH balance and diet is very misleading and misrepresented by MANY that favor vegetarian diets. First of all, the environment influences our biochemistry quite dramatically, particularly over thousands of years due to the rate of genetic modification. For example, Eskimos maintain optimal pH balance on a diet of 90% animal foods, while some Hindus and inland Aboriginals maintain optimal pH balance of the converse of 90% plant foods!



Many authors falsely attribute high acidity levels to meat eating. This really is a lot of bunk for the following reasons:



1. pH is specific to body compartment and body fluid. Therefore, when making any reference to pH without making a clear statement as to where the measurement is taking place (urine, venous blood, arterial blood, saliva, and even specific organs. The stomach, small intestine and large intestine, for example, all have different optimal pH levels!



2. It has been argued by Rakowski and others (including very possibly William Wolcott) that sprinting around the block once will produce a far greater shift in pH towards acidity than eating nothing but meat all day long. I have personally tested my own urine and saliva every hour for days on end and let me assure you, if you were to do the same, you would quickly find that what you do with exercise and how close you are to your needs for water consumption will influence your pH FAR more than what you eat. I've knocked my urine pH down from 7 to 5 in 10 minutes of squatting with sets of 10 on a one minute rest in just a few sets!



3. Any time someone is eating too much animal food or protein from any source, the tell-tale signs are as follows:



Urine begins to smell and often gets thick and dark.
Sweat begins to become pungent
If this is not checked within a relatively short period (one to seven days in my experience), fatigue sets in followed closely by aching joints.
Continued abuse of optimal balance in nutrient intake and water intake will result, most likely, in disease!
Q: Won’t eating animal foods, particularly red meat encourage inflammation in my body?



PC: You can get increased inflammation from omega 6 rich vegetable oils just as rapidly as you can with animal foods. Vegetable oils in general are high in omega 6 fatty acids which stimulate the arachadonic acid cascade, producing inflammation. I deal with inflammation and chronic pain management all the time. The reasons why so many do well initially on vegan diets include the following:

Often they are eating real food for the first time! They often cook fresh for the first time and eat much more raw food for the first time! Finally, they have stopped eating so much packaged crap. This all acts to increase vitality and mental clarity just like using clean water will clean your windows much better than dirty water.
These diets are very effective detoxification diets across the board, greatly reducing body burden from those falling into category #1 above.
Often, people going on vegan diets are being directed by holistic health professionals who also encourage the use of organic foods. Those eating organic meats will NOT have the body burden and the burden is great. Since fat stores toxins and commercial farmers make their income by the pound, these farmers stand to benefit from feeding their livestock harmful foods. The benefit from going vegan was to avoid those toxic commercial meats and nothing inherent to being a vegan per se.
Q: When I got cancer, I was told that living a vegetarian lifestyle would be necessary to reduce the burden on my body and would support my immune system. It worked, so why should I quit now when it obviously eliminated my disease?



Paul Chek: Frequently, disease is caused by the following three factors.



1) Eating too much processed food which contains potentially toxic and even carcinogenic additives, preservatives, colorings, emulsifiers, solvents and many such related chemicals. In fact, Americans today consume an average of 150 pounds of such chemicals yearly (3)!

2) Consuming commercially grown produce is routinely sprayed with dangerous farming chemicals, such as herbicides, pesticides, fungicides and rodenticides. In fact, some 2,000,000,000 (that’s 2 Billion!) pounds of such chemicals are used annually in the US alone (4).

3) Eating commercially farmed animals that are raised on steroids, antibiotics, foodstuffs laden with mycotoxins (very poisonous toxins from mold and fungus), and other toxic additives. For example, the use of plastic chips, cement dust, sewage and dead animal parts are but a few of the items approved or used for commercially farmed animals (5)!

Typically, many doctors and holistic health practitioners that recommend vegan or vegetarian type diets also recommend organic or biodynamic produce. These foodstuffs are grown without toxic agents and generally have far greater nutritional value than commercial produce. The inclusion of organic foods, be they animal or produce, results in dramatically reduced incoming toxicity, supporting the immune and detoxification systems of the body. Where people often make a mistake with the philosophy that vegetarianism cured their disease is in not realizing that:



Frequently, this is the first time most such people have eaten high quality food. Sadly they had to look death in the eyes to start!
Their diet was often previously limited in living produce and was excessive in processed foods, trans-fatty acids, synthetic additives, colorings, preservatives and processed grain products that disrupt blood sugar levels.
The commercial animal foods they ate up until the point of creating their disease were at least as toxic as they themselves were, thus creating sizable burden on their body.
In reality, what has happened in most cases that I’ve seen where vegetarian diets were used as part of a cancer or disease treatment protocol is that for the first time, patients:



Ate high quality nutritious foods
Eliminated multiple sources of toxins and non-foods. This is particularly the case in light of how toxic the animal foods previously eaten were!
Ate much higher quantities of raw, or living foods
Organic animal products such as eggs, organ meats and bones provide a wide variety of essential and supportive nutrients such as sulphur containing molecules, vitamin B12, calcium, trace minerals, fat soluble vitamins, and more. Not to mention that the fatty acid profile of grass fed, organic raised and organic free-range meats is notably more favorable than their commercial counterparts. Quality animal nutrition not only provides nutritional value that can’t be obtained from vegetarian diets, but supports liver function, detoxification and general tissue healing. In this same vein, conventional thinking on nutrition fails to recognize the fact that animals and fish of all types offer concentrated forms of both life-force and consciousness when properly handled, prepared and eaten. These subtle energies and the consciousness afforded by our anthropogenic ancestors frequently support our animal subsystems. This knowledge has been with us for some time, as St. Hildegard demonstrated long ago in her writing on the nutrients offered by various animals and their use in healing (6).



Q: I don’t want to eat meat because to do so would retard my spiritual development.



Paul Chek: This is a common misconception. First of all, if one reads about the life of Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce Indians or Chief Seattle of the Suquamish Tribe, you will find clear evidence of the deep spirituality lived and practiced by many Native American tribes all of whom consumed meat as part of their diet (7). The same can be said of Eskimos and most native peoples, particularly before being influenced by Christian missionaries, who typically brought with them both processed foods and the fear of God. If you want further proof of the rich spiritual development of the many meat eating native peoples, I suggest you read Wisdom of the Elders by David Suzuki (8).



I know from personal experience with a number of vegetarians who have gotten on a spiritual path (such as Hinduism or Buddhism) where the chosen guru was of East Indian origin or from a country where meat is naturally scarce, such as some regions in central America, the student adopted the diet of the guru in hopes of experiencing enlightenment. While studying under a guru may be helpful for accelerated spiritual development, ignoring one’s genetic, racial or ethnic needs for fat and protein only diminishes health and vitality. This is obviously antagonistic to spiritual development. This becomes obvious when you consider the fact that all hormones are protein based. Steroid hormones are derived from both protein and cholesterol, of which animal foods are not only the best source, but the most bioavailable as well. This is very important because hormones are molecules of emotion and any disruption of hormonal health/balance impacts our quantity and quality of consciousness (9). Since spiritual development is optimal and/or expanded consciousness and our consciousness is dependent upon our bodily health, we need to be sure that we eat appropriately.



Q: Why would I want to eat meat when killing an animal is an extreme act of cruelty?



Paul Chek: Many vegetarians avoid eating animals because they are sentient creatures. But if you look at the research of Cleve Backster (See the book Secret Life Of Plants and Secret Life Of The Cell), you will find that plants, while less mobile, may be just as sentient as many animals! If so, then we can hardly avoid consuming sentient creatures for food. People should not be worrying about whether to eat meat. Rather, they should be more concerned about what they can contribute to society with what they’ve eaten.



Moreover, we can provide these animals with a better life than they might have otherwise had. Everywhere you look in nature, you will see that life eats life. If you’ve ever seen a wolf, lion, alligator, large snake or carnivorous fish kill their prey, you would be well aware that the experience of running and fighting for your life while being gashed, bitten and bleeding to death is far more brutal than any method used by a skilled meat packer!



Q: Do you really think the 7 billion people on our planet can be sustained as carnivores without mass agro-industry and mass thoughtlessness of what this does to land and creatures?



Paul Chek: We can easily feed our population ethically and effectively with organic farming. China fed a MASSIVE population on a TINY land mass (only 14% of China's land is arable) for a very long time while importing little foods just by farming organically! In his Farmers of Forty Centuries, Professor King shows clearly that we could feed the world effectively through organic farming by following the lead of the Chinese farmers. The way to feed people in the future and not end up in wars caused by radical blood sugar and hormonal fluctuations is to husband plants and animals ethically and allow them evolve through love, respect and human consumption.



In addition, if you trust in Divine Law, if you trust in Mother Nature, you have to come to the conclusion that all native societies that were healthy ate meat so they could be healthy and maintain ecological balance. What would happen if we were to ignore the divine law of Mother Nature? If we were to stop eating the sheep in New Zealand, where the animals naturally proliferate, the consequences could be disastrous. Project mentally and you will surely come to the realization that what is now co-habitation of plant, animal and man, would soon become an imbalance with sheep damaging the ecology by excessive eating, tramping and secretion of toxic body waste. Sadly, this is very much what man himself does most everywhere he goes these days!



Walter Russell said it beautifully in his description of the Love Principle (10). The microorganisms eat each other for the benefits of the grass (and plants), the zebra eats the grass, which serves him out of love, the lion eats the zebra, who serves him out of Love, the lion dies and feeds the microorganisms, serving them out of love and the whole cycle continues. The plant evolves through the zebra, the zebra evolves through the lion, and the lion evolves through the experience of its group soul.



Conclusion

The most important thing any of us can do is eat organic foods and eat according to our metabolic type. By loving and respecting all we eat, we are fostering spiritual evolution of all. Mankind has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that when he is unhealthy, he is less conscious, less rational and certainly more prone to violence. Studies such as those of Sir Robert McCarrison have also shown this to be true for animals. When we eat right, drink right and move right, we think right. Only when we think right/rationally, can we ever expect to improve the condition of the world and society as a whole!

Read Part Two of my series on Vegetarianism: Does Meat Eating Impede Spiritual Development?

Find out more about my Personal~Professional~Spiritual Success Mastery Program now!

References

1) Wharton, Charles Heizer. Metabolic Man: Then Thousand Years from Eden. Orlando, FL: Winmark Publishing, 2002.

2) Fallon, Sally and Mary Enig. Nourishing Traditions. 2nd Edition. Winona Lake, IN: New Trends Publishing, 1999.

3) Kellog, William R. and Andrea S. Dworkin. Surviving the Toxic Crisis. Comprehensive Health Publishers, 1996.

4) Kimbrell, Andrew ed. Fatal Harvest. Sausalito, CA: Foundation for Deep Ecology, 2000.

5) Chek, Paul. Lifting the Veil of Deception. Vista, CA: C.H.E.K Institute, Forthcoming.

6) Strehlow, Wighard and Gottfried Hertzka. Hildegard of Bingen’s Medicine. Santa Fe, NM: Bearn and Company, 1988.

7) Nerburn, Kent, ed. The Wisdom of Native Americans. Novato, CA: New World Library, 1999.

8) Suzuki, David and Peter Knudtson. Wisdom of the Elders. New York, NY: Bantam, 1993.

9) Pert, Candace. Molecules of Emotion. New York, NY: Touchstone Press, 1997.

10) Russell, Walter. Universal Law, Natural Science and Living Philosophy. Waynesboro, VA: The University of Philosophy, 1972.

getting the essential amino acids from a veg diet is very hard. It CAN be done but unless youj know what you are doing...

Brian-what about the balance with plants?? ;)

Have to agree with Kirk on grains-me, I don't eat any. But I think some can do ok on them SOMETIMES not a the staple of a diet.

And if not sure I wouldn't eat gluten.

Kirk-many people sensitive to processed dairy do fine on raw dairy (just like nature intended it.

Yet another person's opinion. What a bunch of biased crap. I was a vegan for 3 1/2 years and I've been vegetarian off at various times since I was a teenager. This type of crap really gets old.

Mark, I understand that you seem to be a big fan of Paul Chek. That's great. I'm sure he is a knowledgable individual with some things, but I'm also pretty sure that his specialty is not the vegetarian diet. Personally, I don't think there is only one ideal diet that is perfect for everybody. Paul, however, has a lot of books to sell, and I guess he is supposed to have some sort of perfect ideal nutrition ironed out for everybody who wants to buy his books. But, seriously, the concept of "one perfect diet" is just flawed from the beginning. There is not one human being who has enough experience with all diets. The comparisons which lead to ancestor's diets from thousands of years ago are flawed comparisons. Not only did our ancestors live very short lives, but they were also were generally more active than people from today. There are lots of things to consider when comparing people from today with our ancestors. There are lots of variables left out of the comparison. Our ancestors were very limited geographically and educationally. Those serious limitations do not exist today, which allows a person today to possibly eat a healthy vegetable-based diet.

I seriously doubt Paul's (or anybody's) personal experience with studying multiple diets. Firt of all, his bias is ridiculously obvious. But also, I would like to understand Paul's personal experience with having a vegetarian or vegan diet. How long did he live on a vegetarian diet? How did he feel? What did he eat? What vegetarian foods did he have good experience with? What vegetarian foods did he have problems with?

Of course, I'm assuming that he has no personal experience with a vegetarian diet. He mentions in his article that "because in my career I have worked with many unhealthy vegetarians."

No shit...

"Often my vegetarian patients were in need of animal nutrition yet, for one or more of the above reasons were initially resistant to my suggested inclusion of animal foods for regaining their health."

He says they were in need of animal nutrition. Can you be more specific? Do you mean they were in need of additional protein? Vitamin B-12? More iron? Why would you jump to the conclusion that they absolutely needed to get their nutrition from animal sources? Again, more obvious bias.

How many healthy vegetarians has Paul worked with? How many serious athletes has he worked with that have a "successful" vegetarian diet? It seems to me that people come to him BECAUSE they are unhealthy....so no wonder that the vegetarians that he meets are unhealthy. In fact, I'll bet that out of all of his customers, he likely has had far many more omnivorous people than vegetarians. Yet, that he doesn't see that as a reason to dismiss having an omnivorous diet.

"Q: I don’t want to eat meat because to do so would retard my spiritual development.

Paul Chek: This is a common misconception.
"

How in the hell can you logically call someone's FAITH a "misconception"? If someone believes that eating meat is not good for their spirituality, then that is not something that can really be argued, anymore than a belief in god can be argued. Faith is not grounded in rationale. It's called FAITH for a reason.

Mark, I also don't think nature intended for humans to consume cow's milk at all...raw or otherwise. Are you a cow?

Look...I just got through eating a fish sandwich about an hour ago. I ate a turkey sandwich yesterday, and a chicken sandwich the day before. I'm further experimenting with my diet. I'm obviously no longer a vegetarian or vegan, but when people like Paul write articles such as this, they have an agenda. He sites some references to back up some of his beliefs. If he were a realistic researcher, he would submit multiple sides of the equation. He would seek out those who have a successful vegan/vegetarian diet. He would find those people who don't rely on meat as a nutrition source, and he would point out references that supported multiple viewpoints. Instead, he just dug up whatever research backed up his own opinions. That is what everyone does, and I thikn it's really lame.

Mark, you seem to be treating this Paul Chek guy like a god. That can be very dangerous. It's called faith for a reason.

I was a vegan for 6years. Finding the right nutrient balance on a vegan diet can be hard work but quite franky the same can be said for an omnivorus diet. I started eating meat again 2years ago. But the same rules still apply. Are you getting all your vitamins and minerals? are you getting enough fibre? are you eating too much of any one food type? Im all for eating fairly natural healthy food that your body responds well to. Gluten doesnt agree with me so i avoid it but that doesnt mean that it isnt an ideal food source for other people. Both vegans and meat eaters can fall into the trap of eating too much processed crap or just too much full stop. I could find plenty of junk food to eat as both a vegan and an omnivor :) Neither is a guarentee of good health. All the meat, grains ,vegies in the world are not going to keep you healthy if your drinking soft drinks and adding chemicals to everything. Or even just putting in more fuel than you need.
Brian stevens Im impressed. That was a really well argued point. Two thumbs up.

Brian, take it easy mate. I know food can have a lot of emotional attatchment but its just discussion.

Its funny how long people can be unhealthy and survive or even do well.

Example how people eat junk foods and over train and seem to do great. Then we don't here from them and they've quit and we say they go told when if you look at things closely there body is messed up.

Actually if you've read anything I've said you'll know I don't believe in one diet for everyone either. There were native S Americans on a very low meat/meat products diet that were very healthy (but they did have some).

I'd like to see evidance of any healthy ancient culture that ate no meat/animal products.

One sixe fits all-do your homework. Thats my biggest prob with most experts is they say eat this way or that. Everyone is different.

I don't eat oranges. They are not good for me but I know that oranges ARE good for many people.

The curch I was brought up in is veg and I know tons of veggies. Though I was never strict in term of not eating I rarely did cause we never had it at home.

Fitness and health are not the same thing. The body is quite amazing and can get by even though we do crazy things to it.

Its funny that degenerative disease was almost unheard of amoung native cultures all around the world, all of whom ate meat/meat products, at least as far as I have heard.

I'd say Chek is actually quite a sound researcher in my opinion.

He makes his money from making people healthy not really in selling any books on health.

When you're job is rehabbing people you only get to charge what he does by getting results.

A different view point is cool but accusing of an aggenda very strongly with very litle research. Something your are accusing of (funny how things like that happen).

How can you call Faith a misconception.

Well if you believe that physical, mental, emotion, spiritual etc etc all effect each other then distroying your physical health will effect your spiritual-regardless of your beliefs.

Try it. Eat oreos for 10 straight days and see how into your beliefs you can get. :)

Treat Paul like a God... ok Brian, lets not get carried away.

Anyway, how do you know? Have you met him? :P

So instead of personal why not give us some studies and facts and something solid to back up killing our plant friends :P

Oh no refferances either cause they just support what you are saying....?

All I'm saying is its ok to disagree ;)

By the way I was brought up veggie and my sis is strict veggie and my Mum is veggie and my Dad for the most part is (once he went on a highewr protein diet he did have many health improvements)

My sis has many signs of protein defficiency and plenty of health issues.

My Mum has fatigue issues as well.

This doesn't prove a thing-just saying I'm not all that unaware of the veg culture.

At home we never had meat growing up.

Something I'm going to be looking into more and more.

Brian-please share some of your info

The Myths of Vegetarianism
by Stephen Byrnes, PhD, RNCP

Originally published in the Townsend Letter for Doctors & Patients, July 2000. Revised January 2002. This paper is posted at: http://www.powerhealth.net/selected_articles.htm.




Myth #2: Vitamin B12 can be obtained from plant sources.
Of all the myths, this is perhaps the most dangerous. While lacto and lacto-ovo vegetarians have sources of vitamin B12 in their diets (from dairy products and eggs), vegans (total vegetarians) do not. Vegans who do not supplement their diet with vitamin B12 will eventually get anemia (a fatal condition) as well as severe nervous and digestive system damage; most, if not all, vegans have impaired B12 metabolism and every study of vegan groups has demonstrated low vitamin B12 concentrations in the majority of individuals (11). Several studies have been done documenting B12 deficiencies in vegan children, often with dire consequences (12). Additionally, claims are made in vegan and vegetarian literature that B12 is present in certain algae, tempeh (a fermented soy product) and Brewer's yeast. All of them are false as vitamin B12 is only found in animal foods. Brewer's and nutritional yeasts do not contain B12 naturally; they are always fortified from an outside source.

There is not real B12 in plant sources but B12 analogues--they are similar to true B12, but not exactly the same and because of this they are not bioavailable (13). It should be noted here that these B12 analogues can impair absorption of true vitamin B12 in the body due to competitive absorption, placing vegans and vegetarians who consume lots of soy, algae, and yeast at a greater risk for a deficiency (14).

Some vegetarian authorities claim that B12 is produced by certain fermenting bacteria in the lower intestines. This may be true, but it is in a form unusable by the body. B12 requires intrinsic factor from the stomach for proper absorption in the ileum. Since the bacterial product does not have intrinsic factor bound to it, it cannot be absorbed (15).

It is true that Hindu vegans living in certain parts of India do not suffer from vitamin B12 deficiency. This has led some to conclude that plant foods do provide this vitamin. This conclusion, however, is erroneous as many small insects, their feces, eggs, larvae and/or residue, are left on the plant foods these people consume, due to non-use of pesticides and inefficient cleaning methods. This is how these people obtain their vitamin B12. This contention is borne out by the fact that when vegan Indian Hindus later migrated to England, they came down with megaloblastic anaemia within a few years. In England, the food supply is cleaner, and insect residues are completely removed from plant foods (16).

The only reliable and absorbable sources of vitamin B12 are animal products, especially organ meats and eggs (17). Though present in lesser amounts than meat and eggs, dairy products do contain B12. Vegans, therefore, should consider adding dairy products into their diets. If dairy cannot be tolerated, eggs, preferably from free-run hens, are a virtual necessity.

That vitamin B12 can only be obtained from animal foods is one of the strongest arguments against veganism being a "natural" way of human eating. Today, vegans can avoid anemia by taking supplemental vitamins or fortified foods. If those same people had lived just a few decades ago, when these products were unavailable, they would have died.

-www.westonaprice.org

Of course this referance backs my thoughts so it doesn't count... Brain that wasn't one of your best arguements ;)

http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/vitaminb12.html
By Sally Fallon and Mary G. Enig, PhD

Mark, perhaps I should relax. But, seriously, these "informative articles" are all over the place, on both sides of the fence. I'm really sick of them.

Recntly, you quoted Chek or referred to Chek's books or articles many times on the forum. Your posting of his articles is looking a tad religious. It's not wrong, per se, but it can become dangerous to rely on one source all of the time. Nobody is infallable, and as far as I know, Chek is human. He has human behavior, and that is always suspect. There is nothing wrong with questioning Chek's point.

My main point is that you can't possibly cover a topic accurately or responsibly without covering the multiple sides to the story. Chek, and apparrently Stephen Byrnes, are interested in debunking vegetarian or vegan diets. That appears to be the point of their articles.

So, what we have are articles that are appearing to be "informative", and perhaps some of their information is truly useful information, but they are slanted articles. Every point that they make screams "Don't be a vegetarian!!!!"...or rather... "Don't be vegetarian, follow my belief system instead. Buy my book!!!!". They are only covering a sliver of research on the topic, and they don't have any peronal experience with the diet themselves. In both articles that you quoted, the point of the article was to point out flaws in a vegetarian or vegan diets. That was it. I see the same thing when I go to a pro-veg website that talks about how horrible milk and meat diets are. There may be some accurate information within the article, but every single article is written with a spin...an agenda. NOT all of the information on the topic is covered...so just how informative is the article?

Covering such a sliver of information leads to large misunderstandings about what the diets are in the first place. To me, and to many others, a vegan diet is about setting an ideal. It's not 100% perfect. I've never thought it to be perfect. I got my vitamin B-12 through fortified soy or rice milk. The source of that B-12 was likely an animal source, perhaps some byproduct of dairy processing. Who knows. I also got B-12 from sea plants (which likely get their B-12 from animal sources floating in the water being absorbed into the plants). So, I've never believed that it is possible to have a 100% animal-byproduct free diet. That wasn't the point of the diet.

Regarding research, you know as well as I do that research is suspect. Last year, I read articles where research showed that cell phone use was proven to NOT increase the likelihood of tumors. Then today, I read another article saying that there is a 240% increase in brain tumors among those who use cell phones. So, it is obviously difficult to wade through the research articles and choose what to believe in. In the articles you mentioned above, only certain research was referenced. Then you ask me to share "my" info...which I suppose is supposed to mean something that counters their arguments. Why should I do that? If they are such great researchers, then why don't they show the entire gamut of information regarding the topic?

My challenge to you, Mark, if you are truly interested in this topic, is for YOU to look to gather info to the contrary of what Chek and Byrnes are saying...because I know it's out there. I know that Chek didn't do all of his research simply because he missed out on one of the more common deciding factors in being vegan/vegetarian...and that is regarding resource usage, meaning the number of people that can be fed through plant-based diets and meat-based diets. "Diet for a small planet" is a popular book that covered the topic, and this has caused many people to make the switch. Chek didn't mention that at all in his debunking effort.

Hey alls well. I will say one thing. I think you'll have a hard time finding people who do more indepth research than Paul. I have listened to a few lectures and he often presents both sides of a subject and sometimes doesn't really give you his opinion. Or he'll be like-well if you read works of Vladimir so and so he says that blah blah, other works from so and so say that this. All i know is when you look at the whole system and from my own clinical experiance that blah blah..

No sense attacking Paul. You like whats in there or not. You agree you disagree. Thats cool.

Actually i have heard more about feeding the world and have read some stuff that counters the idea that vegies have.

cell phones-who payed for the first study?? I don't care what any book or study says as much as the source.

Do some research on Price, on Pottenger, on Fallens, on Getoff, on Chek, on Kalish

Like I said before Chek charges $500US and hr to get people healthy. U don't charge that from not getting results. I promote his book cause in my opinion its the best starting point I have seen. Not that I know but I don't think the majority of his buisness is from that book.

No if he was just an author or reportedly help people then I'd wonder a little more. But I have seen effects personally and with others. I have been envolved with people that have gotten results because of The CHEK Inst approach.

The deeper one gets into a field and the more knowlage then one can make more and more sense of things but even then study design can be biased from the get go.

I don't think that article was ment to prove and cover everything. What do i know. i thought it had some good points and was interesting. It certainly wasn't all inclusive nor a research paper.

You can find what ever you look for. But results and logic and a solid source come first in my book.

I am looking more and more into veg. Infact I believe I mentioned that I've heard Chek say that you can be veg...its just very hard.

My sis is veg and I am hoping we can get her health back on track.

Religious-I believe that health effects everything...regardless of what your religiousbeliefs are. Thoughts and emotions are chemical or biochemical and everything is vibrationing.

I don't think thats a religious statement.

Mark L you read alot of this kind of stuff is it a personal interest or do you work in the field?

Both. I have been studying more and more about nutrition, health, exercise etc etc since my health left me and docs couldn't help. My evolution of learning has lead me now to start working in this field. I am just startig out with the working and in reality I am just starting with the learning. Cause I don't think anyone knows more than the smallest amount about the human body and nature. That said our guide should always be nature. I don't think you can find histories of healthy ancient peoples living on a vegan or even veg diet.

Many things can be done but I believe Nature and God regardless of what they mean in your belief system always knows best.


"Any time you take a food that nature or God has given us and alter it, you make it worse. Chickens have skin, eggs have yolks, milk has butter fat and nature made them that way. If you desire health, stop telling Nature and God that they are stupid." -on Dr Getoffs site
naturopath4you.com

As I learn more and more I try to keep in mind that ancient healthy men were not vegan. Now info saying otherwise would interest me more than info suggesting that a vegan diet is the answer to everything.


I just finnished my CHEK NLC level I. Prior I did some studies with the Colgan Inst and started studies with the Cory Holly Inst. I didn't continue after starting to make sense of the CHEK approach and after reading works like "The Metabolic Typing Diet", "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration"

Not all books I read agree 100% and there are certainly countless points of view.

I look for results and logic. I believe Nature/God knows best.

So far i have strongly promoted "How To Eat, Move and Be Healthy" -Paul Chek as I feel its right on track and is the best over all book I have read on how to implement health.

Europe isn't so bad but in N. America things are down right scary in my opinion.

If you look at charts and figures on the increases in degenerative disease it really blows the mind. But we're so interested in who is dating Brad and Rachel being pregnat and just trying to scrape by to pay the bills that we don't see the big picture.

We have been bombarded by adverts for med drugs for years and we have been taught that docs are our saviors.

Then you look at the responses on threads like "Trust Your Doc?" and you see how deeply engrained it is in our belief systems.

Everyone argues with me on the thread. It seems no one looked at the source. The Journal Of American Medical Association was the source of that article. They are a highly respected journal WITHIN the med system..

Yet no one goes wow, can that be true, should we look a little closer just in case?

It seems we simply close our eyes and say no way...while 85% or N Americans daily take a prescription drug... Now thats BIG bucks! And we all go for treatments (often for life) never expecting a cure.

Getting carried away but careful what you ask :P

veg farming etc

"One of the most nutty, stereotype fallacies emanating from the vegetarians is their claim that crop husbandry is less energy and chemically intensive than livestock farming. Whilst this is true in consideration of the intensive, grain fed livestock units, the traditional mixed farming unit raises livestock for meat and milk off extensively managed, low input grassland systems; and each acre of well-managed grassland can produce four harvests a season of high protein forage utilising its all-inclusive clover plants as a green manure for fixing free atmospheric nitrogen into the soil. Whereas, an arable cropping system will only yield one or two crops per season, and will largely remain reliant on the inputs of artificial fertiliser for its nitrogen source; one ton of which requires ten tons of crude oil in the manufacturing process."

veg farming etc

"One of the most nutty, stereotype fallacies emanating from the vegetarians is their claim that crop husbandry is less energy and chemically intensive than livestock farming. Whilst this is true in consideration of the intensive, grain fed livestock units, the traditional mixed farming unit raises livestock for meat and milk off extensively managed, low input grassland systems; and each acre of well-managed grassland can produce four harvests a season of high protein forage utilising its all-inclusive clover plants as a green manure for fixing free atmospheric nitrogen into the soil. Whereas, an arable cropping system will only yield one or two crops per season, and will largely remain reliant on the inputs of artificial fertiliser for its nitrogen source; one ton of which requires ten tons of crude oil in the manufacturing process."

© 1999 Mark Purdey. All Rights Reserved.
First published in Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation Health Journal,
Vol 22, No 4. (619) 574-7763

http://www.westonaprice.org/farming/wasteland.html

sorry name or article

Farm and Ranch— The (Vegan Ecological) Wasteland
http://www.westonaprice.org/farming/wasteland.html

I don't know of an acient healthy cultures that ate a vegan or veg diet. They 'knew' waht to eat. Just like animals do. We cannot outsmart Nature IMO

"The annual all-cause death rate of vegetarian men is slightly more than that of non-vegetarian men (.93% vs .89%); the annual death rate of vegetarian women is significantly more than that of non-vegetarian women (.86% vs .54%) (Am J Clin Nutr 1982 36:873)"

westonaprice.org

"Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" -Weston A Price
This book is a MUST read if you are in the health buisness

Its funny that anyone who breads animals knows the importance of healthy parents for a quality healthy offspring yet in humans we think its all just chance...

Mark, this is getting redundant. You've obviously established your opinion, and your opinion is obviously based upon reading stuff written from one viewpoint.

Why don't you just say "These guys think the vegetarian diet sucks, and I believe them".

I mean...here's an example...

Do you question "why" the death rate is different between veg and non-veg people back in 1982? Do you think there is a substantial difference between 2006 and 1982 in terms of nutritional knowledge and vegetarian options in grocery stores and restaurants, not to mention the number of people who are vegetarian must be majorly increased since 1982?

You've made mention of what foods are "natural" to consume, but you don't ever address the issue of humans drinking milk that is intended for a baby cow. Doesn't that contradict the concept of "natural eating"?

I remember when you were once really a hardcore follower of the "Thai way" of training. Years later, you slowly changed your mind about many traditional thai training concepts, like overdosing on running, and incorporating strength training. It took you a while (years) to research the alternatives to the "Thai way". But back then, you were stubborn in defending the "Thai way" of doing things because they had proven themselves in the ring. If their way is wrong, then why do they compete so well?

Are you in another scenario where you are hardnosed into one way of thinking? Is it going to take you a couple of years before you research the other side of the argument in terms of vegetarian diet? You haven't mentioned one article that is pro-vegetarian, or provides the other side of the coin, and you think you are doing good research on the topic? I know there is a lot of information out there. Are you just choosing not to read it?

I don't see how you can feel comfortable with such a biased pool of research.

lol how do you know its biased.

I'd like to think I can change my mind and I think in general I am changing for the better. Certainly over all.

Its ok to disagree :)

I take it you tink veg diets are good and believ that. Good for you. Sets the stage for discussion.

I am happy to read and look into veg diets but I want you to at least tell me that you have looked into the source and that you think its solid. Not just you like what they say.

I don't know that drinking milk (a natural product from a natural animal) is unnatural at all.

Is an egg unnatural?

Healthy native cultures drank milk and some drank cows blood too. Not something I'm too interested in but I don't see how that can be unnatural.

Using war technoligy to irradiate food is unnatural.
Frying the hell out of milk is unnatural.
GMOs are unnatural
Taking away part of a whole (skim milk) is not natural
processing foods-not natural
adding chemicals, heel made of man made chemicals-not natural

IMO

I'd be really sad to think that my views never changed. It cool though, cause the more you learn (and can change) the more you can look at something new and see if it can make sense. Doesn't mean I'm right but over all I know I am way better off than last year, or the year before.

Stagnation would be the worst thing I can think of.

So thank you for your criticism. :)

I would be embarrassed if i had the same hair cut I had 5yrs ago let alone the same viewpoint on everything. New information is constantly available it would be ridiculous not to re-evaluate your understanding of things on a regular basis. I mean is the world flat just because people once thought it was?
Mark I think what Brian is refering to is the way you can sometimes appear absolute in your convictions when life is more often about shades of grey, and when a conviction is held so strongly it can (doesnt always) close people off from acknowledging information that doesnt fit with their view point.
Mark you distrust many studies but continue to use studies to back your arguements, Studies definitley have a time and place but your publicly aired views on their bias seem inconsistant with your use of statistics to make a point. Brian uses premis and questioning logic to argue his point, in the way of ancient philosophy. Im going to sound like a complete nerd here but reading the two of you thrash out a subject is fantastic, a bit of the old "the scientist VS the philosopher". And like the whole Alli Vs Foreman you never know who will come out on top. From an abstract persuit of truth point its interesting to see that both Questioning logic and science can hold their own independantly.

I think it smart to look into a study not just at the result.

I think I have provided plenty of evidence (from sources I think are solid) to take a look if interested.

I will look at studies but I at least want to know that who ever is sharing has done a little research or has strong reason to think the source is good.

Otherwise anyone can find a study to say almost anything they want.

So I think we have to use a bit of logic and to look at the people that do the sudies and or pay for them.

I'm at little lost where all the scientific facts Brian is presenting are...

By the way no one new the outcome but Ali :P Just kidding.

I also only look to people who are healthy.

You could have ten degrees in nutrition and be 300lbs and have a hard time roling out of bed. Quite frankly I am not interested in thier knowlage.

I think there is WAY more to a study than the 'results'.

Just my opinion.

I think you can be healthy as a veg but I think its hard, especially if you oxidize food very fast. As a vegan I think there are some real issues.

I'm not here to convince anyone. I'm here to share. People believe what they want regardless of facts or studies.

Look at how many religions there are. Everyone will tell you they are right.

Yet all think that...who is wrong?

Just saying people have strong attatchments to belief. Evidence means little if the attachment is strong and engrained.

All I know is I see results and I see sense and I also so see studies that back it.

I phrased it badly in my last post. What I was trying to say is that it is interesting to see two people argue a point with different styles of presentation. I have a Bscience in psychology and a BA in philosophy so I have had to use both methods during my studying and find both methods effective. Brian doesnt use statistics to make his arguements he uses a step by step process of logic (if A is true and B is true C(A+B) must also be true). I am currently doing alot of statistical work and believe a good study can be worth its weight in gold but you have to shift through alot of crap to find the good ones. I also spent 4yrs learning to present and arguement when you can find no "facts" and there are no studies to back your point. (ethics and morals). I completely agree with you on the problems with studies and I would prefer to take health advice from someone who puts it in to practice, but just because you will never see me scratch my forehead with my foot doesnt mean I dont know how to. Just because someone does not actively use their knowledge doesnt mean that what they have to say or their view point is not worth listening to, even listening to health tips from an obese person could help with what not to do. Im sorry if you took offense to my comments it was meant more as a compliment to both of you, on your ability to present strong arguements. These posts give more food for thought than the ones where everyone sits around agreeing with eachother.

no offense at all :)

I love to discuss, argue and share :)

You may know something and you may know something. Believing something works without experiancing it isn't the same. I also believe that in sharing and teaching really knowing comes across.

Its funny the things you run across too. Thhings you experiance along the way.

I know what you're saying and you are right but I think there is more to it too.

In terms of discussion everyone has a view. Thats great. In terms of seeking out teachers I look for those who walk the walk.

“Raw milk cures many diseases.”
J.E. Crewe, MD, The Mayo Foundation, January, 1929

Just found some articles on veg athletes saying how it can be done etc etc If you want to read its on ptonthenet.com Its a great site.

As I read I thought I was going to have to post it as it sounded good. Then they started hitting on things that I disagree with. Like good sources of protein being soy etc

If you want to read they are there. And I do think you can be a veg and be healthy.. just alot of work for what?

If I thought the article was more solid I'd post more but if you want to look them up they are there.

also stuff like

"2) Breads, Cereals and Grains:

5-12 servings"

in my opinion this is straight crap so I can't consider the rest of whats said at least from that source.

how do you know its biased.

ok....

As you are (finally) searching through articles that present a different viewpoint about vegetarian diet than that of Chek or Weston Price, you are dismissing the points that disagree with your own ideas (and those of Chek and Weston Price).

Let me flip that around and maybe the bias can be more obvious.

Imagine that I was a person who believed soy and grains were very healthy for human consumption. (I'm don't necessarily believe that or disbelieve that, but just for the sake of argument).

Now imagine that I've decided to take on the task of researching alternative viewpoints about vegetarian diet. I end up reading some of Chek's thoughts on vegetarianism. I get to the part where he talks badly about Soy. I think to myself "oh, that's crap" and I dismiss his points because I already have a preset judgement on the topic of soy. I mean, I would already have my own opinions about Soy consumption, and his ideas disagree with my ideas...so why would I consider his ideas on Soy if I think they are crap?

Where would that get me?

Would that be considered biased research on my part?

Would I ever fully understand the points that chek and weston price are trying to make about vegetarianism?

Now flip that back around and that is what I think you are doing. That is the bias that I'm referring to. That is the reason why all of the articles that you are posting are of one mindset.

I realize that you are sold on people "walking the walk". I completely understand that, and that idea does make sense to me. However, there are many examples of people demonstrating their ideas with actions. There is a point where you are taking sides BEFORE you consider multiple and differing sources of information. That is what I think can be very dangerous. Many examples seem to contradict each other. Some people have written articles about vegetarians having very poor health. I've read some stories about vegetarians having amazing health. Which one do you choose to believe? Which one is right?

The Thais run 5-6 Km per day and they are very successful competitors. They are obviously "walking the walk" and proving it in the ring. There are also successful competitors that hardly run at all in their training. It seems to me that one example doesn't necessarily rule out the other example.

However, you think grains and soy consumption are crap. Lots of athletes (perhaps most athletes) each grains, and perhaps soy. You also think that pasteurized non-organic milk is bad for the body. I'm sure many successful athletes consume pasteurized non-organic milk everyday and they are successful.

If you are on the search for truth, then maybe the truth is less black and white than what Chek and Weston Price are saying (the same would go for biased vegetarian articles too. That type of writing irks me). Maybe Chek is an amazing guy who has amazing knowledge, but his knowlege isn't perfect. Perhaps he has found what works for his clients and he is satisfied with the results. He has obviously been put up on a pedastal by many people as an authority on training, nutrition and lifestyle. It would probably not be good for him to write articles saying something like "I don't really have all of the information that I need to form a solid opinion on that". That would probably hurt his credibility. Credibility is why he charges $500/hour for his services. He has great results, yes. However, there are other people who claim that have great results too that do things differently than Chek. Chek has credibility within the training community and he is expected to have a solid opinion on a common issue like vegetarianism. If he has a waivering opinion, then people would probably have less trust in his opinion. He is in the business of having answers. Isn't that why people go to him?

I'm not saying Chek's results don't support his ideas. Certainly his results (that you described to me) get my attention. I'm certainly less sold on his research because I'm quite skepticle of research and his research seems very biased to me. What I'm really saying is that his results (even with his research backing it) are not reason enough to disregard other people's ideas (or successful results, or research).

We as a society don't know everything about nutrition and what not because all of the research hasn't been done, and a lot of the existing research is suspect. We obviously still have limited knowledge on things like soy and grains. Only recently did studies appear in the news about soy not preventing cancer. Of course...I'm not sure why that was presented on CNN when thousands of other studies don't appear on the major news channels. I've read at least 10 stories this year about studies that demonstrate cures for different cancers stemming from a frog bacteria or a moth enzyme or something like that. However, somehow, the "soy doesn't prevent cancer" story ended up on CNN. Maybe the dairy industry pushed the study. Who knows.

To answer your question from earlier, I don't necessarily believe that a vegetarian diet is the most ideal or healthy diet. I simply haven't made up my mind about that yet. For more than a year now, I haven't had a vegetarian or vegan diet as I've eaten various foods including meats. I probably have more personal experience with having a vegetarian diet than you, Chek and Weston Price put together, and my mind isn't made up on the subject. I want to finish my personal diet experiments and then continue with research later.

Also, before you respond by saying "people go to chek because of results", let me pre-counter that thought :)

If people simply went to Chek because of his results, then he would not have to write articles to explain his thoughts. He would not have to present research to backup his thoughts. He would just have to say "Look at all of these people that I cured/helped" and that would justify the $500/hour that he charges and the cost of his certification course. People wouldn't ask questions if it were just about results. They would just show up and pay him. But that is not reality. In reality, there are people like you and me who are initially skeptical about training methodologies and theories about nutrition. We have to read testimonials from credible sources, and things like that. I think Chek's credibility as a source of information plays a major role in his success. Someone in his position needs to have a strong opinion about something like vegetarianism...because he is expected to have answers.

I am willing to look at anything but I like it to come from a source I think is decent I think ptonthenet is. I mentioned many that were not from the two you mentioned above. Many are on the westonaprice site but are not by him.
Just like mercola.com will have articles from many sources.

If you think much of what someones saying is wrong then yes don't go with that. Simple. You don't have to accept or agree with anything.

But if there is some sense then you keep looking and or you review the points you disagree with.

Its called change.

Thais running-If you look deeper then you start to see different things. The body is not cut and dry. You go with what works untill you know better.

If there is enough to support veg then I will look into more and more. As I look I don't see much.

Its nice you can use your intelect to pick me apart but why not use some to support veg. You give me something and maybe I'll change my mind. instead of just trying to have a battle of wits.

I'm just trying to share info, logic and facts and opinion.


"However, you think grains and soy consumption are crap. Lots of athletes (perhaps most athletes) each grains, and perhaps soy. You also think that pasteurized non-organic milk is bad for the body. I'm sure many successful athletes consume pasteurized non-organic milk everyday and they are successful."

Mant athlete can perform but do not feel well. Get sick. Get injured. Have short spans etc etc. You can look good and feel like shit. You can be fit and not be healthy. You can perform amazing learned skills yet be very unstable and unbalanced.

Example-dancers/gymnists. Look at them on the outside and wow they are amazing. But they have more musculoskeletol probs than most.

You maybe able to crazy skate boarding acrobatics but you may not be able to stabilize the spine and pelvis.

The body is amazing and can manage when we treat it poorly very well. Amazingly.

Can't judge a book by its cover.

I love that you keep focusing on Chek. You can focus on my research as we have talked some but you know little of his. If YOU do some research on him you'll be surprised as he researches things pretty damn indepth.

You think I should look more fine. GIVE ME SOMETHING. All you're doing is saying my research is limited and saying research I mention is no good caus ethey don't research-you don't know that at all!!!!

Brian-I don't think many of hois clients go to lectures or study his courses. Those are to teach others in the industry more than anything.

Clients come through the grape vine I think.

I don't care what anyone says I don't pay $500hr to get healthy from anyone unless they get results.

The way it works in the health field is you refer out what you can't handle.

As you get better you get reffered the tougher cases.

As you get results and get better then you end up climbin the ladder.

I don't care what you talk about or write you don't get refered the toughest cases from that. Just from results.

"While the World Health Organization had considered six units of beta-carotene to be equal to one unit of vitamin A, the US Institute of Medicine revised this downward in 2002, considering 12 units of carotene in foods on a mixed diet to be equal to one unit of vitamin A. However, even this revision was criticized by a review in the Journal of Nutrition, which reported field studies suggesting that it took 21 units of beta-carotene to equal one unit of vitamin A.50 While the Institute of Medicine's figure considered half of the carotene in oils to be converted to vitamin A, a much higher conversion rate than that for solid foods, a more recent study found that even when carotene is provided as a concentrated dose in the form of an oil, conversion factors range from a minimum of 2.4 to a maximum of 20.2.51 Additionally, several medical conditions interfere with the conversion of carotenes to vitamin A, children have lower conversion rates than adults, and infants cannot make this conversion at all, requiring an animal source of vitamin A.36"
Dioxins in Animal Foods:
A Case for Vegetarianism?
By Chris Masterjohn
www.westonaprice.org



Saying children can't convert carotenes into vit A... very interesting.
Certainly worth trying to prove wrong if you feed your kid vegan.

"and infants cannot make this conversion at all, requiring an animal source of vitamin A.36"

I would assume that is where Mother's milk comes into play.

"Its nice you can use your intelect to pick me apart but why not use some to support veg."

Well, I don't necessarily support vegetarianism. My thinking is not that simple-minded.

"You give me something and maybe I'll change my mind. instead of just trying to have a battle of wits."

My point is that you should be looking this information up yourself, in a non-biased manner, that is, if you want to do proper research. I shouldn't have to provide you anything. It's useful to get different viewpoints, but you should really be digging for information supporting vegetarianism as well as information that debunks it.

"I'm just trying to share info, logic and facts and opinion."

But you're sharing articles that are from one viewpoint only. You've posted articles from Chek, Weston price and others, but they all basically have the same message, "vegetarianism is bad". You can have an opinion all you want, but when that opinion starts to influence your research, then your research process is flawed. That is why I suspect that Chek's research process is flawed, although I do not know for certain. I'm just basing it off the extreme bias in his articles.

In the next week or two, I'll see if I can take some time out to do some research on my own. Right now, I'm very busy getting settled in as I just relocated.

I have looked at other stuff. Haven't seen anything solid enough first off.

Second I am also looking at sources that are solid. They might not always be right or agree. But they have a solid base.

I am cautious of looking at anything ramdomly cause you can find anyting you want to find.

Brian writes

"you should really be digging for information supporting vegetarianism as well as information that debunks it."

"you are dismissing the points that disagree with your own ideas"







"Impact of Smoking on Clinical and Angiographic Restenosis After Percutaneous Coronary Intervention – This large study shows yet another benefit of smoking. This time the benefit concerns restenosis, that is, the occlusion of coronary arteries. Smokers have much better chances to survive, heal and do well. Where is the press? Nowhere to be found, of course; we are talking about a significant positive about tobacco and smoking, which affects the health of people, don’t we?"

"Severe Gum Recession, Less Of A Risk For Smokers - In the strange world that anti-tobacco has wrought, any research that deviates from the tobacco-is-the-root-of-all-evil template is noteworthy. Here is a study that shows that smokers are actually at lower risk from gum disease. In this page (scroll down) there is more scientific evidence from other sources about oral health and smoking. "

"Twin Study Supports Protective Effect of Smoking For Parkinson's Disease"

""In a multivariate analysis, children of mothers who smoked at least 15 cigarettes a day tended to have lower odds for suffering from allergic rhino-conjunctivitis, allergic asthma, atopic eczema and food allergy, compared to children of mothers who had never smoked (ORs 0.6-0.7). Children of fathers who had smoked at least 15 cigarettes a day had a similar tendency (ORs 0.7-0.9)."

"Carbon Monoxide May Alleviate Heart Attacks And Stroke"

"Smoking Prevents Rare Skin Cancer - A researcher at the National Cancer Institute is treading treacherous waters by suggesting that smoking may act as a preventative for developing a skin cancer that primarily afflicts elderly men in Mediterranean regions of Southern Italy, Greece and Israel. "

"Smoking Reduces The Risk Of Breast Cancer - A new study in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute (May 20, 1998) reports that carriers of a particular gene mutation (which predisposes the carrier to breast cancer) who smoked cigarettes for more than 4 pack years (i.e., number of packs per day multiplied by the number of years of smoking) were found to have a statistically significant 54 percent decrease in breast cancer incidence when compared with carriers who never smoked. One strength of the study is that the reduction in incidence exceeds the 50 percent threshold."



You can find anything you want.

Some logic and common sense must come into play. Also you are right that beliefs should bias research however youu also have to stick to beliefs to a degree. Open minded is good. But just accepting everything is not how it goes.

I am looking but not finding much.

Soy and grains. You say i chuck it out cause of my belief.

Well if I believe that soy and grains are way over done yet the article is saying that you can get enough protein (from eating these) then that is not solid. If they said they think soy and grains are ok AND you can get enough protein without them then I could look at that.

If someon tells me smoking is good for me I will likely discard (with out solid convincing) anything else they say on the subject of health.

shouldN'T bias research-oops

The point is all I can find so far says you need grains and soy to get enough protein... I believe that grains and soy are a large factor in our health issues.

So then if you want to say thats biased fine. However it should be shown that grains and soy aren't the prob they are. Or at least in this regard its a road I could go down.

You can go in circles for ever and a starting point and someone to point you in a direction can help loads.

Frankly there is loads of solid evidence supporting the benifits of eating healthy animal and animal products. And that limiting them can be dangerous.

So far the best I can find to say you can get enough protein from a vegan diet get it from sources I don't believe we're ment to eat or eat that much of.

Call me biased but I have to go with what I know untill proved otherwise.

I was talking with my CHEK NLC. He was saying, in his opinion that there ARE some people out there who will do best on a vegetarian diet. Though he thinks a very very small number. Very rare.

So untill I find more for or against I'll go with that cause he's proven dead on or effective on everything so far.

So there you go :)

this is what i love about ax,you can leave for along time,come back and you can jump right back in.

mark,
i never got back to you about the raw milk.
i've heard good things about it but still feel that it's not meant to be consumed after a certain age,or from other than human sources.

we need our veggies and we need our fruits,our nuts and our meat.get as raw and as unfooled around with as you can.

kirk-I don't know how to answer or respond to the raw milk thing...

I know it can be benifitial for some people and extreamly so at times.

Is it designed for human consumption...? I don't really think so either.

In studies of healthy isolated groups around the world before the introduction of modernized diets (I have read some of Price's work but there are others too-I'll get to one day-but I'm told they all show similar things)..

All the healthy tribes or groups ate meat, sea food or animal products...

The less meat etc they ate was always to do with availability...

I think dairy comes into play a little there..

Nature as a guide and clinical results to decide.... Dairy wins for some people (certainly not for others).

I'm not sure why its not natural though (please, no word play).. I mean, eating seeds of plants-they are there to grow new plants. How is that any different? Cows milk is there for baby cows.. The real test is in the results is in consuming it and effects.

Our bodys and food supply aren't what they use to be (I think most who have done any indipendant research will agree here). Maybe that calls for it more..

I don't know...

something to look into more.

I do believe without question though that it can be very benifitial to some people..

That said in response to your comment.... I don't know

http://www.peta2.com/outthere/o-macdanzig.asp

(from the article)

King of the Cage Champ Mac Danzig

As his title suggests, King of the Cage World Champion Mac Danzig spends a good deal of time beating professional fighters into submission. While this is extremely cool, it's just one of the reasons why he has so many fans here at peta2. As it turns out, Mac, who's sponsored by Warrior Wear, is as passionate about animal rights as he is about dominating the ring. Shortly after a commanding title defense against Buddy Clinton, Mac took some time to talk to us about the secrets of his success, his plans for the future, and why going vegan was one of the best decisions he ever made. Have a look at the highlight reel that Mac sent us, then check out his exclusive interview below.

He makes a reference to Mike Mahler, who inspired him. Here's his site

http://www.mikemahler.com/veg.html

Its awesome to here someone like that talk about how horrible etc factory farming is etc!!!!!

Just a note he says get organic gets.. Chicken eggs can be called organic if they are penned in doors and fed things that chickens aren't suppose to eat (like organic corn, organic soy etc etc largely grains). Free range is first option, at least for me, and free range orgnic better yet.

Same with dairy. I am a bit supporter of organic, but grass fed non-medicated cows milk I would take over organic anyday.

Slightly off topic but..

So he talks about getting protein from nuts alot. I believe over consumption of nuts is not a good thing. A little here and there. Why? Today we have omega 6s in EVERYTHING! They are not fats we are lacking in, regardless of how big a role they have in health. The big thing is the balance of omega 3s and 6s. upping 6s is not smart in my opinion. (Certainly a prob vegans come across).

Too many 6s in relation to 3s will be pro-inflammatory.

He also says he doesn't do it cause he thinks its better. Of course he's not saying he thinks its worse either..

What he is saying is its for ethical reasons..

Well its been proven that plants actually have life and react to threats and show fear and pain etc etc. Sounds crazy but there is quite a lot of documented studies and many done by recognized groups etc That prove this.

So if you want to say I don't eat meat because of the poor animals, thats cool, but one is mistaken to think that taking a plants life is any different IMO of oourse.

The main point is probably seeing an athlete perform on this diet.

My point. Health and fitness are not interchangeable words.

Like I have said before. Today more athletes are dieing than ever before in history... But they are healthy right?? We see them do thier thing... Nope, they are fit. You can be both but you can be one or the other. IMO

Now being veg for 15 years and vegan for 10 certainly suggests something...

My opinion is its not the best way. That some people can get away with it due to possible genetic dispositions and constitution.

Like his talk on coconut oil!!!!!! But not on shakes (garbage in my opinion)

Low fat diets DO suck!!!!! Some people need more and some less but low fat diets kill. Not high fat.


Well there is some evidence there to support veganism.. I personally don't agree with the concept.

I was brought up in a church that suppose to be veg. They are known for being 'healthy' too. But one needs to be aware that healthier than the general population doesn't mean much of anything. The general population is F%$#^$# sick!!! A couple percent better health than them is a pretty low goal. Most people who eat veg/vegan are trying to be somewhat healthy. So the effort alone, less booze, smoking etc etc They have to be a bit healthier.

Now the meat of today IS pretty nasty and that will play a factor too.

Cows (just like people) fed grains are not healthy cows (thats why grass fed non-medicated over organic, both being champ). The ratios of fats in them are different, the quality of protein and fats in them are different. Most meat you buy today IS toxic.

Toxins are stored in fat. They make the animals fat to sell for more MONEY by feeding them things that are toxic too them so they put on fat. Quite simple. Anything from cement dust, carboard, never mind the nasty stuff, even little plastic pellets, never mind grains and of course antibiotics. All make a cow FATTER FASTER and there for more MONEY. (note we eat lots of grains and antibiotics too hmmm)

So the quality of meat we eat will play a factor when compared to those a. trying to eat 'healthy' by not eating meat b. living healthier because they are trying to be healthy (maybe less drinking, smoking, less junk food, no meat won't get you far at fast food joints etc etc

I went to a place not so long ago where they were all vegan. There was a body builder there. I had asked if they all were and they said yes. And pointed him out and said I could talk to him (they knew I was an athlete) I politely declined :) My point is though that most of them had that malnurished, pale pasty look..

That is not proof of anything-doesn't mean they are doing it 'right'-but it is something I do see in most vegans.

Just my opinions.

Any attempt at health is on the right track in my opinion.

One more thing. In my opinion looking at how we got here is important because if you believe in evolution and in how long it takes us to change then you have to wonder what got us here. What did we eat to survive (only the strongest survived).

If you go back before farming started and actually fire even plays a big role in changing us (long summer days ment eat more carbs, can get in summer, and fatten up for winter. It ment have sex, have kid in spring. Too little fat on a woman and she can't get pregnant-it would be a waste cause it wouldn't work)..

Anyway we followed the herds, not the the vegetables! :P

Seriously though. We were hunter gatherers.

Now without farming where would one get such large quantities of carbs?? Certain seasons more than others (you can eat more carbs in summer and stay up later) but in the winter months there sure as hell wasn't many carbs about...

The native Indians in N. America ate about 70-90% protein/fat and they WERE bloody healthy.

They could not get many grains (grains kill), vegetable, or fruit throughout a good portion of the year. Much of Europe is the same.

There are some areas were higher carbs were consumed but always with animal or animal products (not excluding sea food in animal).

How we got here was not being vegetarian or vegan thats for damn sure..

So if your ancestors are from a place with winters you might suspect (if you believe in evolution) that you have a genetic requirement for at least some MEAT!!!

IMO

"So if you want to say I don't eat meat because of the poor animals, thats cool, but one is mistaken to think that taking a plants life is any different IMO of oourse."

Are you serious?

Plants are the same as animals?

Aside from the difference of complexity, what about sustainability of each?

It takes a lot more resources to sustain an animal.

And the environmental impact of each?

You have to kill a lot of plants to affect the local ecosystem.

Killing an animal is HUGELY different than killing a plant, IMO.

"How we got here was not being vegetarian or vegan thats for damn sure."

I've often been curious about this line of thinking used as a baseline for choices in healthy eating. What humans ate over time was mostly out of necessity (until the more modern age).

"The native Indians in N. America ate about 70-90% protein/fat and they WERE bloody healthy."

First of all, how exactly do you know that?

Secondly, wouldn't "bloody healthy" be a side effect of any tribal sect of people? I would imagine that they got far more exercise than the colonized/civilized people of the time. Wouldn't that be the primary differential between them? The civilized people of the time probably ate a lot of meat too. Were they also healthy?

I haven't looked into the enviromental stuff personally yet to much degree but there are different schools of thought as well.

The typical Chinese farmer land, with which he could feed (I forget the numbers but I think it was 300ish (but pretty sure in hundreds) the typical American farmer claimed they could barely feed thier family.

Right farming practices make all the difference. Animals are condencers. They get around and graze places we can't and condence the food. (they also condence toxins if poorly fed etc) They have way more bang for the buck.

Native Indians being bloody healthy-I have mentioned many times some of the sources . You simply discount. If you would actually like to do some of the research I'll give you them again.

One of the best, not the onlt, is Weston A Price who travelled the world in the early 1900s. He went to Africa, Europe, North and South America, Australia, New Zealand etc etc He looked for a found native groups in each area on thier native diets. He also saw the introduction of modernized foods etc..

He did examinations on the individuals, he took analasis of the foods they ate(including shipping back to have it looked at in great detail, documented thier diets.

Everywhere he went he found native groups and as long as they were on thier native diet they were bloody healthy. (I have shown you some pics which you discount as they don't fit in your belief system instead of looking into it) If you don't want to look into it thats cool but don't question the source without looking IMO)

He looked at the natives that adopted modernized foods. Some moved to the white mansd settlements for work and some it came into thier villages.

He looked at off spring.. three or four for an example before they adopted white mans food and then the one or two after (same family) the differences are F&*^%$*%^ crazy!!

Also examples of identicle twins.. one takes a job on a boat with the white man and one stays home on native diet... visual physical differences, never mind whats going on inside.

EVERYWHERE he went.

An example of health (they were all healthy before introduction of modernized foods)

In Switzerland while he was there (I htink he went more than once I forget) tuberculosis was at near epedemic proportions. In the villages he found with them eating traditional diets it was unheard of. They had no doc or dentist (and didn't need them).

(disease went up to same as white man when modernized foods were adopted)

A doc he met in N America that had worked with the natives for 30 years (if memory serves). He said (amoung other things-and this isn't the only source). Women on native diet had practically no probs giving birth (women don't like to hear this) but as soon as they went on modernized foods they went into long labours (another story but guess how hard that is on the kid??)

Also docs back then would often send sick natives back to thier villages to get better as they new that the native diet (and living) would fix 'em up.

Eskimo women wouldn't even wake up thier husbands to give birth. They'd just pop it out and introduce in the morning when he woke up!!!

One can simply discount what they don't understand or could say 'wow, IF this has truth what could it mean."

A couple other IF you will actually look..

Albert Schweitzer (Gabon Africa 1913)-"I was astonished to encounter no cases of cancer..." -Jordan S. Rubin "The Maker's Diet"

1960s-Vilhjalmur Stefansson "...searched in vain for cases of cancer amoung the Inuit peoples whhile exploring the Arctic" -Disease and Civilization

1930s Weston A Price (who also gives counts of treating patients (one Mum had called the Priest) with nutrition and the results (including x-rays etc) Teachers were blown away by the changes in students (due to Prices nutritionalk imput) He shows compelling evidence of the power of food for criminals and psyc ward...and the changes from them getting proper food.

So as a side effect-no Like I have said much of this before, the FIRST generation to consume modernized foods...bang!!!

Price found 0!! healthy native populations on veg diets

Pottengers work cats shows exactly the same physical changes as Price found with humans when they ate poor quality foods(with people too-did many many things for science and western med). But also temprement.. They properly fed (raw meat and RAW dairy) cats stayed normal and healthy through out the 10year study (he did autopsies too etc). Interestingly the ones fed processed dairy and cooked meat-the femals became agressive and the males passive (interesting when you look around in our world today). But the physical changes in bone density. The changes in shape of the middle third of the face, the suseptibility to disease etc etc were exactly as Price found with native populations eating a modernized diet (reversal of changes going back to native diets too!!!)


The cooked meat and the more the processed milk the quicker they deteriorated. Infact miscarrages, inability to reproduce etc etc got worse and worse. The 4th generation of the cooked meat and highly processed milk group could NOT reproduce!!! the kittens(I think 3rd gen) reintroduced to raw meat and RAW milk took 4 generations to get equally as healthy.

Pottenger saw this with his human patients also.

"Pottengers Cats"

so called civilized (thats what we tell ouselves) peoples certainly didn't eat the same ratios of protein/fat/carbs that the natives all over the world did.

Plants-we all have our belief systems. You don't have to believe me or change yours. However I am saying there are LOADS of studies that show some very interesting things about plants.

We don't think they feel pain or fear but studies show otherwise.

You can choose to look at that and possibly challange a belief or not.

Did I say plants were the same as animals? No I am saying there is much we, thre general public AND researchers don't know. Its pretty cocky to think we know much about life on this planet. But like I said there have been in roads (that get ignored) and very solid studies that show plants react with fear, and pain...

Of course the world is flat or when told its round it might be worth checking into to see if there is that possibility.

EVERY generation has beliefs that the future generations would laugh at.

We know know the world basically is empty space. try telling that to people back in the day.

I'm not saying I am right because of this (or that I am right) I am saying IF one really wants to question, one must look. If one simply wants to discount and hold on to ones beliefs thats cool too. But if you ask me I will share ;)

oh a ref for plants
"The Secret Life Of Plants" forget the authers name and I can't see it on my book shelves..

Also talking to people who work with nutrition (5 specificazlly come to mind who work with sick people to pro/olympic athletes). Thier experience suggests the same.

My personal experience, being brought up and around many veggies and working with others supports this as well.

My experience can't prove anything, but the pieces add up. Including my dads colitis/IBS and its best improvements in years and years (was just about to go in for another op) from starting to eat meat!!!

One problem with studies is most are done with the normal population as a controle. The normal population is NOT healthy by any stretch. Any atempt should pretty much get results compared to them.

veg maybe but vegan-thats just plain scary...(wasn't buddy suppose to be vegan and taking shakes??? were they whey (dairy not vegan-though crap anyway) or soy (crapx2)

IMO and experiences

veg diet can be a great initial detox I've heard-not looked into yet.

your thread -'Lack Of Sleep = Weight Gain?'

I have a short post which actually relates here I think.

vegan, no matter how you slice it, is largely a carb based diet...

sleep, light, carbs etc etc all related to health and weight gain etc etc

ever wonder why only domesticated animals get cancer (maybe some 'wild' living in cities too) but out in nature they don't??

Cause they live in natures laws and don't think they are smarter than nature. They generally eat what they should for them (they don't go well lets see, maybe we should eat this, maybe we should eat that), they sleep when they should (dpending on animal of course-they get up with the sun and bed with the sun for example). They don't think artificial chemical blue health drinks should replace water and they don't think chemically altered man main refined whey replaces meat).

They simply live in accord with universal laws...be they called Mother Nature, God, Devine Mother... whatever the creative genious is in the universe is called by the individual.

looking to nature and how we got here provides many answers... most importantly is does it get clinical results... In my experience and understanding it does.

Holy crap mark.

Your third post back covered just about every topic possible. Eskimo women who pop out their babies without their husband's help? I'm not sure how that is related. Does that determine health somehow?

"Price found 0!! healthy native populations on veg diets"

That does not mean that it is impossible to live a very healthy lifestyle on a veg diet. There are obviously a lot of other variables involved.

"Everywhere he went he found native groups and as long as they were on thier native diet they were bloody healthy. (I have shown you some pics which you discount as they don't fit in your belief system instead of looking into it)"

What pics are you talking about that I discredited? How did that guy determine their health? Did he consider lifestyle differences? Or did he just establish the conclusion that it was diet-related?

"Native Indians being bloody healthy-I have mentioned many times some of the sources . You simply discount. If you would actually like to do some of the research I'll give you them again."

Go ahead. I would like to know what metric was used to determine "bloody healthy" that would suggest that it was diet-related rather than simply life-style related (tribal groups being more active than colonized groups).

You keep saying that I "simply discount" your sources. I haven't discredited them completely, but I have read some and I do see evidence of bias and agenda. Namely, they don't report ANYTHING positive about a veg diet. Why is that? What kind of balanced reporting are they doing? If you read only their research, it almost seems like eating a veg diet will make you shrivel up and die a slow painful death.

Even so, there may be some good information within their research. However, I doubt that the research is really balanced. I've suggested before that you have an agenda with your research that keeps you from researching things that give opposing views to what you already believe. It seems like you go searching for the answers that you want to find. For example, you won't research positive research about Soy because you've already made up your mind, etc.

I think I'm making a pretty valid point here.

If I had more time, I would read more of your sources. I've read some in the past that you've posted. I would just like to see more balance from your sources. Why don't you post some opposing viewpoints as well? "This is what this guy says...but here's another guy that makes a good opposing point." I'll bet somewhere in between will be the truth.

I just wanted to give an example of a vegan athlete (Mac Danzig) who seems to be doing quite well. I don't think the number of healthy vegetarian tribal groups that Weston Price researched a hundred years ago makes any difference in this Mac Danzig's life today. Somehow, this guy is breaking natural laws of some kind because he is vegan and he is in damn good shape and strong and healthy...and plenty aggressive (counter to the typical stereotype of vegetarians).

How do you explain that?

How can this guy's achievements counter, by example, just about everything that Weston A. Price's research on vegetarian diets suggests? Is this kid somehow supernatural?

I'm not trying to be a vegan evangelist here...I'm just trying to make a point by example.

Here are a couple videos of Mac Danzig in competition.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ljp6Upjdz4s
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0BAWOiiKKV8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=w4YH4v3ssnw

Tell me this guy isn't healthy.
Tell me he is lacking aggression.
Tell me he is lacking strength.
Is Mac Danzig defying the laws of nature???

I think someone needs to inform him that vegans are weak and unhealthy.

"carbs etc etc all related to health and weight gain etc etc"


Ok... so that means that Mac Danzig must be fat then too, because he is vegan and vegan diets are largely carb-based.

Were those vegetarian tribes all fat people? I doubt it.

I think lifestyle plays a huge role there.

Watching an athlete who is strong and skilled tells me little about thier health.

Health and fitness or health and strength are not the same thing.

Like I said before more athletes die today than ever before in history.

You can get your body to perform and look good at a price or with support.

If you don't believe that fine. But its been said a few times. One does NOT equal the other.

Thats like saying skinny people are healthier than fat people... One cannot tell. Fat people certainly are missing something, skinny people may or may not be.

Life style does play a HUGE role. Many atheltes are stressed like you wouldn't believe some are in different stages of adrenal fatigue...yet still lookin good and performing (like those wrestling videos...they don't tell me very much other than he is fitter than average.

i can't tell you how healthy he is form a video (its just a whole different understanding or belief system)
Aggressive-ok not sure where that factors in to anything.


Average is a horrible comparison. It doesn't mean m,uch to be healthier than average. So it hard to do 'studies'

Picking out individual examples.. like if Price travelled the world and picked out a tribe or two, said they do this there for its goo... doesn't say anything.

I can show you a fit athlete that eats meat-doesn't prove a thing.

ok, maybe to you health and fitness are the same.. if so we can't really discuss.
For me they are not. Its like apples and oranges...

Its all depends on what ones beliefs and what paradigm one is in...

Other wise whats said just doesn't make sense.

Like maybe I don't make sense to you and your example of 'health' doesn't even compute to me...

See I believe that disease processes take 15-20 years to develop. Others seem to believe that one day BANG you get cancer, IBS, chronic fatigue, MS etc etc etc And the body is weak, deffective and we need drugs and the savoirs in white coats to give us pills and get us by till we fizzle off (while taking more and more drugs) till we hiccup and DIE!!! (scary word!!! better take your pills)

If you see the dis-ease process developin over and we know that we aren't aware of this happening concisouly then we have to wonder (if the statement is true) why it develops.

So a picture of a fit person tells me nothing about what I really think health is.

You may disagree with that belief in health but does that make sense??

Lets say for example that an athlete over trains... the building blocks to make stress hormone cortisol (for example) also are used to make building blocks for growth and repair hormones, sex hormones too (how many athletes sec drive goes doen with training??? -a sign they are catabolic, over training, and LOOSING strength!). But the body is amazing, it will keep pumping out the hormones required for the stress situation (fight or flight response takes priority over everything else!!! Digestion goes down, elimination is effected, hormones are altered etc etc etc etc. But for along time we can still perform (well maybe not in the bed room-you don't need hormones to reproduce when you are in a fight or flight response).

So the athlete can keep training. Infact early stages of adrenal fatigue.... Make you feel GREAT!!!! Energy might be up (got to fight or run for life, pain sensation is down (don't need to feel that arrow in you).

Yet the athlete looks good and performs well (though I believe they can perform better even, no matter how good they do, if not over training.

cortisol, is get up and go baby, its feel good, pain down, on the ball, rock and roll... so everyone thinks its good. But its all about balance or in time (ahhh time hmmmm) things start to not work so well, fall apart.

Cortisol and the immune system have some cool conections as well... Doesn't the immune system deffend us ALL from cancer (for example)? hmmmm So disrupted, repressed etc immune function for years on end from cortisol over load hmmmmmmm

Still performing though.... is that health?? What is health??

But maybe its just genetic and wo is me, poor me, thank God for pills and radiation to make my life better..

Its all a belief system.

So if health to you is performance...then more can be healthy on a vegan diet than I previously gave my opinion on.

(an explination of stress response from "Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers" that I like.. you're building a roof on your new house. A hurricane is headed straight at you, do you keep building??? Basically the body is the same. Stress response (fight or flight) means all repair, including fighting cancer, recovery, growth etc etc etc is shut down untill the threat is passed....the problem is when the threat is ever present....

Balance

when wildlife is being monitored through the use of infrared photography, tumors in or near the skin often show up as distinctive "hot spots". Tumors in humans have the same infrared signature, so we can take this as being an indication of cancerous tumors in the animals.

when wildlife is being monitored through the use of infrared photography, tumors in or near the skin often show up as distinctive "hot spots". Tumors in humans have the same infrared signature, so we can take this as being an indication of cancerous tumors in the animals. Bear in mind that one reason why we see little cancer in wild animals (and they rearely 'die' of the disease) is that as the illness progresses it weakens the animal and makes them an easier mark for their predators to remove from the population.

This seemed of interest too


I have written on the subject before but will touch on it again. I will tell of a report in the American Journal of Cardiology (January 1960) by Robert O'Neal et al. of Washington University School of Medicine This study compared the deaths from heart attacks in the black population of Uganda with the deaths from heart attacks in both the black and white populations of St. Louis, Missouri.

Before this study, it was known that this population in Uganda had no deaths from coronary heart disease at all. The hospital at Mekerrere College had been established by the British in Kampala Uganda in 1948 and between then and 1960, there had not been a single admission for myocardial infarction within the black population of Uganda.

In the 1960 study, O'Neal et al. examined hearts after deaths from any cause for signs of infarction. They examined 837 hearts of black Ugandans. Of these, only one slight and well healed infarction was found. The researchers also looked at 1,980 hearts from St. Louis whites and 257 from St. Louis blacks. They found 22% cases of myocardial infarction among the St. Louis white population and slightly less cases of myocardial infarction among the St. Louis blacks. So they concluded that skin color was not a factor in the absence of myocardial infarctions among the Ugandan blacks.

There was another observation of interest in this study. Both populations had about the same degree of atherosclerosis. Both populations--the ones in St. Louis and the ones in Uganda--did have plaques of atheroma to about the same degree. The population of St. Louis had a high degree of thrombi in the hearts and lungs, whereas the population of Uganda were almost free from such blood clots.

I met with Professor O'Neal in 1965 and learned much from him that was not in the 1960 report in the American Journal of Cardiology. The blacks of Uganda had total serum cholesterol of about 150 mg %. As to diet, they were grain vegetarians, and the grains were millet, corn, and barley cooked by boiling in clay pots. Their diet contained many leafy green vegetables, such as collard greens. They were near the Spice Islands and had much spice in their food. They seemed to like their food, and they showed no inclination toward adding meat to their diet.

The report on them was in 1960. In that year, a British surgeon, Denis Burkitt, was spending time in Uganda, and he took note that the black population there was free from colon cancer. Burkitt also took note of the high-fiber content of the whole-grain diet of the black Ugandans, and he decided this was the reason for the population's lack of colon cancer. This concept was widely accepted by orthodox medicine in the US.

It was of great interest to me then when in November of 2005, I heard a news report on a study of over 100,000 patients that showed that adding fiber to the diet will not prevent colon cancer. The freedom from colon cancer among the Ugandan blacks most likely was caused by the absence of red meat in their diet.

In his account in the Townsend Letter, Dr. Zeoli said that the fat in the vegetarian diet that caused him so much trouble was polyunsaturated, the so-called "good fats." In the Lancet (March 19, 1997; 654), Dr. E.A. Newsholne of Oxford University published a report telling how polyunsaturated fats were greatly immunosuppressive. These fats were the product of the new oilseed industry. which began selling their fats in 1930. I made contact with Newsholne in 1980. He said that, whereas the new (as of 1930) polyunsaturated fats were highly immunosuppressive, the so-called bad saturated fats were not immunosuppressive at all. Newsholne said that the polyunsaturated fats should be used to treat autoimmune diseases that need immunosuppressive treatment.

It has been widely suggested that immunosuppression will cause cancer. When renal transplants were first done, it was found that patients needed immunosuppression to prevent the rejection of the transplant. It was also found that these immunosuppressed patients were at a greater risk from cancer.

Helen Coley Nauts in her Monograph on Breast Cancer (Cancer Research Institute; Monograph No. 18, 1984) gives data on deaths from lung cancer among white males in the US from 1930 to 1978. In 1930 in the US, when close to 80% of men smoked cigarettes, the fats in US diet were saturated fats. Nonetheless, in 1930, there was only one death per 100,000 from lung cancer. By 1978, with doctors telling one in all that the polyunsaturated fats were good, their presence had increased by a factor of three in our diet, but deaths from lung cancer had increased by a factor of 60 to 60 such deaths per 100,000 men. It could well have been that adding so much immunosuppressive polyunsaturated fat to diet was the cause of the vast increase in lung cancer deaths in the US.

Then here is one another thought: We have teeth like those of a rabbit, well suited to chew plant food. Our ancestors were vegetarians.

It would be of interest to hear Dr. Zeoli's response to this letter.

Wayne Martin, BS, ChE

25 Orchard Court

Fairhope, Alabama 36532 USA

251-928-3975


Source Citation: Martin, Wayne. "A vegetarian diet for better health.(Letters to the Editor)(Letter to the editor)." Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients 273 (April 2006): 92(1). InfoTrac OneFile. Thomson Gale. Massey University Library. 16 Sep. 2006
.

This report was the most thorough that I could find, It was taken from an academic data base and has been peer reviewed, references are all at the bottom. It is definately not from one of those airry pushing my own agenda sad web sites Ive seen used as a "reliable source " before.


It is the position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Approximately 2.5% of adults in the United States and 4% of adults in Canada follow vegetarian diets. A vegetarian diet is defined as one that does not include meat, fish, or fowl. Interest in vegetarianism appears to be increasing, with many restaurants and college foodservices offering vegetarian meals routinely. Substantial growth in sales of foods attractive to vegetarians has occurred, and these foods appear in many supermarkets. This position paper reviews the current scientific data related to key nutrients for vegetarians, including protein, iron, zinc, calcium, vitamin D, riboflavin, vitamin B-12, vitamin A, n-3 fatty acids, and iodine. A vegetarian, including vegan, diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. In some cases, use of fortif ied foods or supplements can be helpful in meeting recommendations for individual nutrients. Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence. Vegetarian diets offer a number of nutritional benefits, including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein as well as higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E and phytochemicals. Vegetarians have been reported to have lower body mass indices than nonvegetarians, as well as lower rates of death from ischemic heart disease; vegetarians also show lower blood cholesterol levels; lower blood pressure; and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer. Although a number of federally funded and institutional feeding programs can accommodate vegetarians, few have foods suitable for vegans at this time. Because of the variabilit y of dietary practices among vegetarians, individual assessment of dietary intakes of vegetarians is required. Dietetics professionals have a responsibility to support and encourage those who express an interest in consuming a vegetarian diet. They can play key roles in educating vegetarian clients about food sources of specific nutrients, food purchase and preparation, and any dietary modifications that may be necessary to meet individual needs. Menu planning for vegetarians can be simplified by use of a food guide that specifies food groups and serving sizes. J Am Diet Assoc. 2003;103:748-765.


Full Text :COPYRIGHT 2003 American Dietetic Association


POSITION STATEMENT

It is the position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases.

VEGETARIANISM IN PERSPECTIVE

A vegetarian is a person Who does not eat meat, fish, or fowl or products containing these foods. The eating patterns of vegetarians may vary considerably. The lacto-ovo-vegetarian eating pattern is based on grains, vegetables, fruits, legumes, seeds, nuts, dairy products, and eggs but excludes meat, fish, and fowl. The lacto-vegetarian excludes eggs as well as meat, fish, and fowl. The vegan, or total vegetarian, eating pattern is similar to the lacto-vegetarian pattern, with the additional exclusion of dairy and other animal products. Even within these patterns, considerable variation may exist in the extent to which animal products are avoided.

People choosing macrobiotic diets are frequently identified as following a vegetarian diet. The macrobiotic diet is based largely on grains, legumes, and vegetables. Fruits, nuts, and seeds are used to a lesser extent. Some people following a macrobiotic diet are not truly vegetarian because they use limited amounts of fish. Some "self-described" vegetarians, who are not vegetarians at all, will eat fish, chicken, or even meat (1,2). Some research studies have identified these "self-described" vegetarians as semi-vegetarians and have defined semi-vegetarian as occasional meat eaters who predominately practice a vegetarian diet (3) or those who eat fish and poultry but less than 1 time per week (4). Individual assessment is required to accurately evaluate the nutritional quality of the diet of a vegetarian or someone who says that they are vegetarian.

Common reasons for choosing a vegetarian diet include health considerations, concern for the environment, and animal welfare factors (5,6). Vegetarians also cite economic reasons, ethical considerations, world hunger issues, and religious beliefs as their reasons for following their chosen eating pattern.

Consumer Trends

In 2000, approximately 2.5% of the US adult population (4.8 million people) consistently followed a vegetarian diet and affirmed that they never ate meat, fish, or poultry (7). Slightly less than 1% of those polled were vegans (7). According to this poll, vegetarians are most likely to live on the east or west coast, in large cities, and to be female. Approximately 2% of 6- to 17-year-old children and adolescents in the United States are vegetarians, and around 0.5% of this age group are vegan (8). According to a 2002 survey (9), about 4% of Canadian adults are vegetarian; this represents an estimated 900,000 people. Factors that may affect the number of vegetarians in the United States and Canada in the future include an increased interest in vegetarianism and the arrival of immigrants from countries where vegetarianism is commonly practiced (10). Twenty to 25% of adults in the United States report that they eat 4 or more meatless meals weekly or "usually or sometimes maintain a vegetarian diet," suggesting an interest in vegetarianism (11). Additional evidence for the increased interest in vegetarianism includes the emergence of animal rights/ethics courses on college and university campuses; the proliferation of Web sites, magazines and newsletters, and cookbooks with a vegetarian theme; and the public's attitude toward ordering a vegetarian meal when eating away from home. More than 5% of those surveyed in 1999 said they always order a vegetarian meal when they eat out; close to 60% "sometimes, often, or always" order a vegetarian item at a restaurant (12).

Restaurants have responded to this interest in vegetarianism. The National Restaurant Association reports that 8 out of 10 restaurants in the United States with table service offer vegetarian entrees (13). Fast-food restaurants are beginning to offer salads, veggie burgers, and other vegetarian options. Many college students consider themselves vegetarians. In response to this, most university foodservices offer vegetarian options (14).

There has also been a growth in professional interest in vegetarian nutrition; the number of articles in the scientific literature related to vegetarianism has increased from less than 10 articles per year in the late 1960s to 76 articles per year in the 1990s (15). In addition, the main focus of the articles is changing. Twenty-five or more years ago, articles primarily had themes questioning the nutritional adequacy of vegetarian diets. More recently, the theme has been the use of vegetarian diets in the prevention and treatment of disease. More articles feature epidemiological studies, and fewer reports are case studies and letters to the editor (15).

There is a growing appreciation for the benefits of plant-based diets, defined as diets that include generous amounts of plant foods and limited amounts of animal foods. The American Institute for Cancer Research and the World Cancer Research Fund call for choosing predominantly plant-based diets rich in a variety of vegetables and fruits, legumes, and minimally processed starchy staple foods and limiting red meat consumption, if red meat is eaten at all (16). The American Cancer Society recommends choosing most food from plant sources (17). The American Heart Association recommends choosing a balanced diet with an emphasis on vegetables, grains, and fruits (18), and the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada recommends using grains and vegetables instead of meat as the centerpiece of meals (19). The Unified Dietary Guidelines developed by the American Cancer Society, the American Heart Association, the National Institutes of Health, and the American Academy of Pediatrics call for a diet based on a variety of plant foods, including grain products, vegetables, and fruits to reduce risk of major chronic diseases (20).

New Product Availability

The US market for vegetarian foods (foods like meat analogs, nondairy milks, and vegetarian entrees that directly replace meat or other animal products) was estimated lobe $1.5 billion in 2002, up from $310 million in 1996 (21). This market is expected to nearly double by 2006 to $2.8 billion (21). Canadian sales of meat analogs more than tripled between 1997 and 2001 (22).

The ready availability of new products, including fortified foods and convenience foods would be expected to have a marked impact on nutrient intake of vegetarians. Fortified foods such as soymilks, meat analogs, juices, and breakfast cereals can add substantially to vegetarians' intakes of calcium, iron, zinc, vitamin B-12, vitamin D, and riboflavin, Vegetarian convenience foods including veggie burgers and veggie dogs, frozen entrees, meals in a cup, and soymilk can make it much simpler to be a vegetarian today than in the past.

Vegetarian foods are readily available, both in supermarkets and in natural foods stores. About half of vegetarian foods volume is sold through supermarkets and about half through natural foods stores (21). Three-fourths of soymilk sales take place in supermarkets (21).

Public Policy Statements and Vegetarian Diets

The United States Dietary Guidelines (23) state, "Vegetarian diets can be consistent with the Dietary Guildelines for Americans, and meet Recommended Dietary Allowances for nutrients." They give recommendations on meeting nutrient requirements for those who choose to avoid all or most animal products. Some have said that implementation of the Dietary Guidelines can best be achieved by use of vegetarian and plant-rich diets (24). National food guides include some vegetarian options. Foods commonly eaten by vegetarians such as legumes, tofu, soyburgers, and soymilk with added calcium are included in a table accompanying the USDA's Food Guide Pyramid (23). Canada's Food Guide to Healthy Eating can be used by lacto and lacto-ovo-vegetarians (25). Health Canada has stated that well-planned vegetarian diets are supportive of good nutritional status and health (26).

HEALTH IMPLICATIONS OF VEGETARIANISM

Vegetarian diets offer a number of advantages, including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein and higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, boron, folate, antioxidants such as vitamins C and E, carotenoids, and phytochemicals (27-30). Some vegans may have intakes for vitamin B-12, vitamin D, calcium, zinc, and occasionally riboflavin that are lower than recommended (27,29,31).

NUTRITION CONSIDERATIONS FOR VEGETARIANS

Protein

Plant protein can meet requirements when a variety of plant foods is consumed and energy needs are met. Research indicates that an assortment of plant foods eaten over the course of a day can provide all essential amino acids and ensure adequate nitrogen retention and use in healthy adults, thus complementary proteins do not need to be consumed at the same meal (32).

Estimates of protein requirements of vegans vary, depending to some degree on diet choices (33). A recent metaanalysis of nitrogen balance studies found no significant difference in protein needs due to the source of dietary protein (34,35). Based primarlly on the lower digestibility of plant proteins, other groups have suggested that protein requirements of vegans may be increased by 30% to 35% for infants up to the age of 2 years, 20% 1030% for 2- to 6-year-old children, and 15% to 20% for those 6 years and older, in comparison with those of nonvegetarians (36).

The quality of plant proteins varies. Based on the protein digestibility corrected amino acid score (PDCAAS), which is the standard method for determining protein quality, isolated soy protein can meet protein needs as effectively as animal protein, whereas wheat protein eaten alone, for example, may be 50% less usable than animal protein (37). Nutrition care professionals should be aware that protein needs might be higher than the RDA in vegetarians whose dietary protein sources are mainly those that are less well digested, such as some cereals and legumes.

Cereals tend to be low in lysine, an essential amino acid. This may be relevant when evaluating diets of individuals who do not consume animal protein sources and are relatively low in protein (35). Dietary adjustments such as the use of more beans and soy products in place of other protein sources that are lower in lysine or an increase in dietary protein from all sources can ensure an adequate intake of lysine.

Although some vegan women have protein intakes that are marginal, typical protein intakes of lacto-ovo-vegetarians and of vegans appear to meet and exceed requirements (29). Athletes can also meet their protein needs on plant-based diets (38,39).

Iron

Plant foods contain only nonheme iron, which is more sensitive than heme iron to both inhibitors and enhancers of iron absorption. Inhibitors of iron absorption include phytate; calcium; teas, including some herb teas; coffee; cocoa; some spices; and fiber (40). Vitamin C and other organic acids found in fruits and vegetables can enhance iron absorption and can help to reduce effects of phytate (41-43). Studies show that iron absorption would be significantly reduced if a diet were to be high in inhibitors and low in enhancers. Recommended iron intakes for vegetarians are 1.8 times those of nonvegetarians because of lower bioavailability of iron from a vegetarian diet (44).

The main inhibitor of iron absorption in vegetarian diets is phytate. Because iron intake increases as phytate intake increases, effects on iron status are somewhat less than might be expected. Fiber appears to have a minor effect on iron absorption (45,46). Vitamin C, consumed at the same time as the iron source, can help to reduce the inhibitory effects of phytate (42,43), and some research links high vitamin C intake to improved iron status (47,48). The same is true for organic acids in fruits and vegetables (41). The higher intakes of vitamin C and of vegetables and fruits by vegetarians can favorably impact iron absorption (2). Some food preparation techniques such as soaking and sprouting beans, grains, and seeds can hydrolyze phytate (49-51) and may improve iron absorption (42,51,52). Leavening of breads hydrolyzes phytate and enhances iron absorption (49-51,53,54). Other fermentation processes, such as those used to make soy foods like miso and tempeh, may also make iron more available (55), although not all research supports this. Whereas many studies of iron absorption have been short term, there is evidence that adaptation to low intakes takes place over the

longer term and involves both increased absorption and decreased losses (56,57). It is likely that iron needs will depend on the make up of the overall diet and be significantly lower for some vegetarians than for others.

Studies typically show iron intake by vegans to be higher than that of lacto-ovo-vegetarians and of nonvegetarians, and most studies show iron intake by lacto-ovo-vegetarians to be higher than that of nonvegetarians (29). Iron sources are shown in the Table. Incidence of iron deficiency anemia among vegetarians is similar to that of nonvegetarians (29,31,58). Although vegetarian adults have lower iron stores than nonvegetarians, their serum ferritin levels are usually within the normal range (58-62).

Zinc

Because phytate binds zinc, and animal protein is believed to enhance zinc absorption, total zinc bioavailability appears to be lower on vegetarian diets (63). Also, some vegetarians have diets that are significantly below recommended intakes for zinc (27,29,64,65). Although overt zinc deficiency has not been seen in Western vegetarians, the effects of marginal intakes are poorly understood (66). Zinc requirements for vegetarians whose diets are high in phytate may exceed the RDA (44). Zinc sources are shown in the Table.

Compensatory mechanisms may help vegetarians adapt to lower intakes of zinc (65,67). Some food preparation techniques, such as soaking and sprouting beans, grains, and seeds as well as leavening bread, can reduce binding of zinc by phytate and increase zinc bioavailability (49,50,68).

Calcium

Calcium is present in many plant foods and fortified foods (see Table). Low-oxalate greens (bok choy, broccoli, Chinese/Napa cabbage, collards, kale, okra, turnip greens) provide calcium with high bioavailability (49% to 61%), in comparison with calcium-set tofu, fortified fruit juices, and cow's milk (bioavailability in the range of 31% to 32%) and with fortified soymilk sesame seeds, almonds, and red and white beans (bioavailability of 21% to 24%) (69-71). Figs and soy foods such as cooked soybeans, soy nuts, and tempeh provide additional calcium. Calcium-fortified foods include fruit juices, tomato juice, and breakfast cereals. Thus, various food groups contribute dietary calcium (72,73). Oxalates present in some foods can greatly reduce calcium absorption, so vegetables that are very high in these compounds, such as spinach, beet greens, and Swiss chard, are not good sources of usable calcium despite their high calcium content. Phytate may also inhibit calcium absorption. However, some foods with high con tents of both phytate and oxalate, such as soy foods, still provide well-absorbed calcium (71). Factors that enhance calcium absorption include adequate vitamin D and protein.

Calcium intakes of lacto-vegetarians are comparable with or higher than those of nonvegetarians (74,75), whereas intakes of vegans tend to be lower than both groups and often below recommended intakes (27,31,71,75). Diets high in sulfur-containing amino acids may increase losses of calcium from bone. Foods with a relatively high ratio of sulfur-containing amino acids to protein include eggs, meat, fish, poultry, dairy products, nuts, and many grains. There is some evidence that the impact of sulfur-containing amino acids is only important with low calcium intakes. Excessive sodium intake may also promote calcium losses. In addition, some studies show that the ratio of dietary calcium to protein is more predictive of bone health than calcium intake alone. Typically, this ratio is high in lacto-ovo-vegetarian diets and favors bone health, whereas vegans have a calcium to protein ratio that is similar to or lower than that of nonvegetarians (71,76).

All vegetarians should meet the recommended intakes for calcium, established for their age group by the Institute of Medicine (77). This can be accomplished, in nonpregnant, nonlactating adults, by consuming at least 8 servings per day of foods that provide 10% to 15% of the Adequate Intake (Al) for calcium, as indicated in the Vegetarian Food Guide Pyramid and Vegetarian Food Guide Rainbow (72,73). Adjustments for other stages of the life cycle are available (72,73). Many vegans may find that it is easier to meet needs if fortified foods or supplements are included (69-71, 78).

Vitamin D

Vitamin D status depends on sunlight exposure and intake of vitamin D fortified foods or supplements. Sun exposure to the face, hands, and forearms for 5 to 15 minutes per day during the summer at the 42nd latitude (Boston) is believed to provide sufficient amounts of vitamin D for light-skinned people (79). Those with dark skin require longer exposure (79). Sun exposure may be inadequate for those living in Canada and at northern latitudes in the United States, especially in winter months, for those in smoggy regions, and for those whose sun exposure is limited. Furthermore, infants, children, and older adults synthesize vitamin D less efficiently (77,79,80). Sunscreen can interfere with vitamin D synthesis, although reports are inconsistent and may depend on amount of sunscreen applied (79,81,82). Low vitamin D levels and reduced bone mass have been observed in some vegan populations at northern latitudes who did not use supplements or fortified foods, particularly children following macrobiotic diets and a dult Asian vegetarians (29,83-85).

Foods that are fortified with vitamin D include cow's milk, some brands of soymilk and rice milk, and some breakfast cereals and margarines (see Table). Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) is of animal origin, whereas vitamin D2 (ergocalciferol) is a form acceptable to vegans. Vitamin D2 may be less bioavailable than vitamin D3, which could raise the requirements of vegetarians who depend on D2 supplements to meet vitamin D needs (86). If sun exposure and intake of fortified foods are insufficient, vitamin D supplements are recommended.

Riboflavin

Some studies have shown vegans to have lower intakes of riboflavin, compared with nonvegetarians; however, clinical riboflavin deficiency has not been observed (27,29,31). In addition to foods shown in the Table, foods that provide about 1 mg of riboflavin per serving are asparagus, bananas, beans, broccoli, figs, kale, lentils, peas, seeds, sesame tahini, sweet potatoes, tofu, tempeh, wheat germ, and enriched bread (87).

Vitamin B-12

Sources of vitamin B-12 that are not derived from animals include B-12 fortified foods (such as some brands of soymilk, breakfast cereals, and nutritional yeast) or supplements (see Table). Unless fortified, no plant food contains significant amounts of active vitamin B-12. Foods such as sea vegetables and spirulina may contain vitamin B-12 analogs; neither these nor fermented soy products can be counted on as reliable sources of active vitamin B-12 (29,88). Lacto-ovo-vegetarians can get adequate vitamin B-12 from dairy foods and eggs if these foods are consumed regularly.

Vegetarian diets are typically high in folic acid, which can mask the hematological symptoms of vitamin B-12 deficiency. Therefore, some cases of deficiency may not be detected until after the onset of neurological symptoms (89). If there are concerns about vitamin B-12 status, serum homocysteine, methylmalonic acid, and holotranscobalamin II should be measured (90).

A regular source of vitamin B-12 is crucial for pregnant and lactating women and for breastfed infants if the mother's diet is not supplemented. Infants born to vegan mothers whose diets lack reliable sources of this vitamin are at especially high risk of deficiency. Maternal vitamin B-12 intake and absorption during pregnancy appear to have a more important influence on vitamin B-12 status of the infant than do maternal vitamin B-12 stores (91). Because 10% to 30% of those over the age of 50 years, regardless of the type of diet they follow, lose their ability to digest the protein-bound form of the vitamin that is present in eggs, dairy, and other animal products, all people over the age of 50 should use vitamin B-12 supplements or fortified foods (92).

Studies indicate that some vegans and other vegetarians do not regularly consume reliable sources of vitamin B-12 and that this is reflected in less than adequate vitamin B-12 status (27,29,88,89,93-95). It is essential that all vegetarians use a supplement, fortified food, dairy products, or eggs to meet recommended intakes of vitamin B-12 (see Table).

Absorption is most efficient when small amounts of vitamin B-12 are consumed at frequent intervals. This could be achieved through use of fortified foods. When less than 5 [micro]g of crystalline vitamin B-12 is consumed at one time, approximately 60% is absorbed, whereas [less than or equal to]1% of a dose of 500 [micro]g or higher of vitamin B-l2 is absorbed (92).

Vitamin A/Beta Carotene

Because preformed vitamin A is found only in animal foods, vegans get all of their vitamin A from conversion of dietary carotenoids, particularly beta carotene. Research suggests that absorption of beta carotene from plant foods is less efficient than previously believed (44,96). This suggests that vegans intake of vitamin A is about half of what previous studies have suggested, and intake by lacto-ovo-vegetarians may be 25% lower than previously shown. Despite this, vegetarians have been reported to have higher serum carotenoid levels than nonvegetarians (29). Vitamin A requirements can be met with the inclusion of three servings per day of deeply yellow or orange vegetables, leafy green vegetables, or fruits that are rich in beta carotene (apricots, cantaloupe, mango, pumpkin). Cooking increases beta carotene absorption, as does the addition of small amounts of fat to meals (97). Chopping and pureeing vegetables may also increase bioavailability (98,99).

N-3 Fatty Acids

Whereas vegetarian diets are generally rich in n-6 fatty acids (especifically linoleic acid), these diets can be low in n-3 fatty acids, resulting in an imbalance that can inhibit production of the physiologically active long chain n-3 fatty acids, elcosapentaenoic acid (EPA), and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). Diets that do not include fish, eggs, or generous amounts of sea vegetables generally lack direct sources of EPA and DHA. Recently, vegan sources of DHA derived from microalgae have become available as supplements in nongelatin capsules. Algae sources of DRA have been shown to positively affect blood levels of DHA and of EPA through retroconversion (100).

Most studies show vegetarians, and particularly vegans, to have lower blood levels of EPA and DHA than nonvegetarians (101-104). The new Dietary Reference Intakes recommend intakes of 1.6 and 1.1 grams of a-linolenic acid per day for men and women, respectively. These are designated as AIs rather than RDAs. These recommendations assume some intake of long-chain n-3 fatty acids and may not be optimal for vegetarians who consume little if any DHA and EPA (35). The Joint World Health OrganizationlFood Agriculture Organization (WHO/FAO) Expert Consultation on Diet, Nutrition and the Prevention of Chronic Diseases (105) recommends 5% to 8% of calories from n-6 fatty acids and 1% to 2% of calories from n-3 fatty acids. Based on an energy intake of 2,000 kcal per day, this would suggest a daily intake of 2.2 to 4.4 grams of n-3 fatty acids. Those who do not receive a preformed source of EPA and DHA require increased amounts of n-3 fatty acids. The recommended ratio of n-6 to n-3 fatty acids is in the range of 2:1 to 4:1 (106-109).



It is recommended that vegetarians include good sources of a-linolenic acid in their diet (106,110). These would include foods like flaxseed and flaxseed oil (see Table). Those with increased requirements (eg, pregnant and lactating women or those with diseases associated with poor essential fatty acid status) or those at risk for poor conversion (eg, people with diabetes) may benefit from direct sources of long-chain n-3 fatty acids, such as DHA-rich microalgae (100,106,111).

Iodine

Some studies suggest that vegans who do not consume iodized salt may be at risk for iodine deficiency; this appears to be particularly true for those living in iodine-poor areas (29,112,113). Bread can be a source of iodine because some dough stabilizers contain iodine. In the United States, about 50% of the general population uses iodized salt, whereas, in Canada, all table salt is fortified with iodine. Sea salt and kosher salt are generally not iodized nor are salty seasonings such as tamari. Concern has been raised about vegetarian diets that include foods, such as soybeans, cruciferous vegetables, and sweet potatoes, that contain natural goitrogens. However, these foods have not been associated with thyroid insufficiency in healthy people provided iodine intake is adequate. The adult RDA for iodine is easily met by one-half teaspoon of iodized salt daily (44). Some vegetarians may have very high intakes of iodine because of consumption of sea vegetables.

VEGETARIANISM THROUGHOUT THE LIFE CYCLE

Well-planned vegan, lacto-vegetarian, and lacto-ovo-vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy and lactation. Appropriately planned vegan, lactovegetarian, and lacto-ovo-vegetarian diets satisfy nutrient needs of infants, children, and adolescents and promote normal growth (36,114,115). Vegetarian diets in childhood and adolescence can aid in the establishment of lifelong healthy eating patterns and can offer some important nutritional advantages. Vegetarian children and adolescents have lower intakes of cholesterol, saturated fat, and total fat and higher intakes of fruits, vegetables, and fiber than nonvegetarians (2,116-118). Vegetarian children have also been reported to be leaner and to have lower serum cholesterol levels (119-121).

Infants

When vegetarian infants receive adequate amounts of breast milk or commercial infant formula and their diets contain good sources of energy and nutrients such as iron, vitamin B-12, and vitamin D, growth throughout infancy is normal. Extremely restrictive diets such as fruitarian and raw foods diets have been associated with impaired growth and therefore cannot be recommended for infants and children (29).

Many vegetarian women choose to breastfeed their infants (122), and this practice should be encouraged and supported. The breast milk of vegetarian women is similar in composition to that of nonvegetarians and is nutritionally adequate. Commercial infant formulas should be used if infants are not breastfed or are weaned before 1 year of age. Soy formula is the only option for vegan infants who are not being breastfed.

Soymilk, rice milk, homemade formulas, cow's milk, and goat's milk should not be used to replace breast milk or commercial infant formula during the first year because these foods do not contain the proper ratio of macronutrients nor do they have appropriate micronutrient levels for the young infant.

Guidelines for the introduction of solid foods are the same for vegetarian and nonvegetarian infants (115). When it is time for protein-rich foods to be introduced, vegetarian infants can have mashed or pureed tofu, legumes (pureed and strained if necessary), soy or dairy yogurt, cooked egg yolks, and cottage cheese. Later, foods such as cubes of tofu, cheese or soy cheese, and bite-size pieces of soy burger can be started. Commercial, full-fat, fortified soymilk, or cow's milk can be used as a primary beverage starting at age 1 year or older for a child who is growing normally and is eating a variety of foods (115). Foods that are rich in energy and nutrients such as legume spreads, tofu, and mashed avocado should be used when the infant is being weaned, Dietary fat should not be restricted in children younger than 2 years.

Breastfed infants whose mothers do not consume dairy products, foods fortified with vitamin B-12, or B-12 supplements regularly will need vitamin B-12 supplements (115). Guidelines for the use of iron and vitamin D supplements in vegetarian infants do not differ from guidelines for nonvegetarian infants. Zinc supplements are not routinely recommended for vegetarian infants because zinc deficiency is rarely seen (123). Zinc intake should be individually assessed and zinc supplements or zinc-fortified foods used during the time when complementary foods are being introduced if the diet is low in zinc or mainly consists of foods with low zinc bioavailability (124,125).

Children

Lacto-ovo-vegetarian children exhibit growth similar to that of their nonvegetarian peers (114,119,126). Little information about the growth of nonmacrobiotic vegan children is available, although findings suggest that children tend to be slightly smaller but within the normal ranges of the standards for weight and height (114,122). Poor growth in children has been seen primarily in those on very restricted diets (127).

Frequent meals and snacks and the use of some refined foods (such as fortified breakfast cereals, breads, and pasta) and foods higher in unsaturated fat can help vegetarian children meet energy and nutrient needs. Average protein intake of vegetarian children (lacto-ovo, vegan, and macrobiotic) generally meets or exceeds recommendations, although vegetarian children may consume less protein than nonvegetarian children (116,128). Vegan children may have protein needs that are slightly higher than those of nonvegan children because of differences in protein digestibility and amino acid composition of plant food proteins (36,129), but these protein needs are generally met when diets contain adequate energy and a variety of plant foods (35). Good sources of calcium, iron, and zinc should be emphasized for vegetarian children along with dietary practices that enhance absorption of zinc and iron from plant foods. A reliable source of vitamin B-12 is important for vegan children, If there is concern about vitamin D synthesis owing to limited sunlight exposure, skin tone, season, or sunscreen use, vitamin D supplements or fortified foods should be used. The Table provides information about food sources of nutrients. Food guides for vegetarian children under 4 years of age (36,130) and for older children (72,73) have been published elsewhere.

Adolescents



There are limited data available on the growth of vegetarian adolescents, although studies suggest there is little difference between vegetarians and nonvegetarians (131). In the West, vegetarian girls tend to reach menarche at a slightly later age than nonvegetarians (132,133), although not all research supports this finding (134,135). If slightly later menarche does occur, it may offer health advantages, including lower risk of developing breast cancer and obesity (136,137). Vegetarian diets appear to offer some nutritional advantages for adolescents. Vegetarian adolescents are reported to consume more fiber, iron, folate, vitamin A, and vitamin C than nonvegetarians (2,60). Vegetarian adolescents also consume more fruits and vegetables and fewer sweets, fast foods, and salty snacks compared with nonvegetarian adolescents (2,118). Key nutrients for adolescent vegetarians include calcium, vitamin D, iron, zinc, and vitamin B-12.

Vegetarian diets are somewhat more common among adolescents with eating disorders than in the general adolescent population; therefore, dietetics professionals should be aware of young clients who greatly limit food choices and who exhibit symptoms of eating disorders (138,139). However, recent data suggest that adopting a vegetarian diet does not lead to eating disorders, rather that vegetarian diets may be selected to camouflage an existing eating disorder (27,140,141). With guidance in meal planning, vegetarian diets are appropriate and healthful choices for adolescents.

Pregnant and Lactating Women

Lacto-ovo-vegetarian and vegan diets can meet the nutrient and energy needs of pregnant women. Infants of vegetarian mothers generally have birth weights that are similar to those of infants born to nonvegetarians and to birth weight norms (122,142,143). Diets of pregnant and lactating vegans should contain reliable sources of vitamin B-12 daily. If there is concern about vitamin D synthesis because of limited sunlight exposure, skin tone, season, or sunscreen use, pregnant and lactating women should use vitamin D supplements or fortified foods. Iron supplements may be needed to prevent or treat iron-deficiency anemia, which is commonly seen during pregnancy. Women capable of becoming pregnant and women in the periconceptional period are advised to consume 400 [micro]g of folate daily from supplements, fortified foods, or both in addition to consuming food folate from a varied diet (92).

Infants of vegetarian mothers have been reported to have lower cord and plasma DHA than do infants of nonvegetarians, although the functional significance of this is not known (104,143). Breast milk DHA levels in vegan and lacto-ovo-vegetarian women appear to be lower than levels in nonvegetarians (144). Because DHA seems to play a role in the development of the brain and the eye and because a dietary supply of DHA may be important for the fetus and newborn, pregnant and lactating vegans and vegetarians (unless eggs are eaten regularly) should include sources of the DHA precursor linolenic acid in their diet (ground flaxseed, flaxseed oil, canola oil, soybean oil) or use a vegetarian DHA supplement (from microalgae). Foods containing linoleic acid (corn, safflower, and sunflower oil) and trans-fatty acids (stick margarine, foods with hydrogenated fats) should be limited because these fatty acids can inhibit DHA production from linolenic acid (145).

Older Adults

Studies indicate that most older vegetarians have dietary intakes that are similar to nonvegetarians (146,147). With aging, energy needs decrease, but recommendations for several nutrients, including calcium, vitamin D, vitamin B6, and possibly protein, are higher. Sunlight exposure is often limited, and vitamin D synthesis is decreased in older adults so that dietary or supplemental sources of vitamin D are especially important.

Older adults may have difficulty with vitamin B-12 absorption from food so vitamin B-12-fortified foods or supplements should be used because the vitamin B-12 in fortified foods and supplements is usually well absorbed (92). Protein requirements for older adults are controversial. The current DRIs do not recommend additional protein for older adults (35). A metaanalysis of nitrogen balance studies concluded that there is not enough evidence to recommend different protein intakes for older adults but pointed out that the data are limited and contradictory (34). Others have concluded that protein requirements of older adults may be around 1 to 1.25 g/kg body weight (148,149). Older adults can easily meet protein needs on a vegetarian diet if a variety of protein-rich plant foods, including legumes and soy products, are eaten daily.

Vegetarian diets, which are high in fiber, may be beneficial for older adults with constipation. Older vegetarians may benefit from nutritional counseling on foods that are easy to chew, require minimal preparation, or are appropriate for therapeutic diets.

Athletes

Vegetarian diets can also meet the needs of competitive athletes. Nutrition recommendations for vegetarian athletes should be formulated with consideration of the effects of both vegetarianism and exercise. The position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada on nutrition and athletic performance (39) provides appropriate dietary guidance for athletes, although some modification may be needed to address vegetarians' needs. Protein recommendations for endurance athletes are 1.2 to 1.4 g/kg body weight, whereas resistance and strength-trained athletes may need as much as 1.6 to 1.7 g/kg body weight (39). Not all groups support an increased protein need for athletes (35). Vegetarian diets that meet energy needs and contain a variety of plant-based protein foods, such as soy products, other legumes, grains, nuts, and seeds, can provide adequate protein without the use of special foods or supplements (150). For adolescent athletes, special attention should be given to meeting energy, protein, calcium, and iron needs. Amenorrhea may be more common among vegetarian than nonvegetarian athletes, although not all research supports this finding (151,152). Female vegetarian athletes may benefit from diets that include adequate energy, higher levels of fat, and generous amounts of calcium and iron.

VEGETARIAN DIETS AND CHRONIC DISEASE

Obesity

Among Seventh-day Adventists (SDA), 40% of whom follow a meatless diet, vegetarian eating patterns have been associated with lower body mass index (BMI). In the Adventist Health Study, which compared vegetarians and nonvegetarians within the Adventist population, BMI increased as the frequency of meat consumption increased in both men and women (4). In the Oxford Vegetarian Study, BMI values were higher in nonvegetarians compared with vegetarians in all age groups and for both men and women (112).

In a study of 4,000 men and women in England comparing the relationship between meat consumption and obesity among meat eaters, fish eaters, lacto-ovo-vegetarians, and vegans, mean BMI was highest in the meat eaters and lowest in the vegans (153). BMI was lowest in those lacto-ovo-vegetarians and vegans who had adhered to their diet for 5 years or longer.



Factors that may help to explain the lower BMI among vegetarians include differences in macronutrient content (lower protein, fat, and animal fat intake), higher fiber consumption, decreased alcohol intake, and greater consumption of vegetables.

Cardiovascular Disease

An analysis of five prospective studies involving more than 76,000 subjects showed that death from ischemic heart disease was 31% lower among vegetarian men compared with nonvegetarian men and 20% lower among vegetarian women compared with nonvegetarian women (154). Death rates were also lower for vegetarian men and women compared with semivegetarians, those who ate fish only or ate meat less than once per week. Among SDA, vegetarian men had a 37% reduction in risk of developing ischemic heart disease compared with nonvegetarian men (4). In the only study to include vegan subjects, risk for developing heart disease was even lower among SDA vegan men than in the SDA lacto-ovo-vegetarians (155).

The lower rates of heart disease among vegetarians are explained in part by their lower blood cholesterol levels. A review of 9 studies found that, in comparison to nonvegetarians, lacto-ovo-vegetarians and vegans had mean blood cholesterol levels that were 14% and 35% lower, respectively (156). Although the lower average BMI of vegetarians may help to explain this, Sacks and colleagues found that, even when vegetarian subjects were heavier than nonvegetarian subjects, the vegetarians had markedly lower plasma ilpoprotein values (157), and Thorogood and colleagues found that differences in plasma lipids in vegetarians, vegans, and meat eaters persisted, even following adjustment for BMI (158). Some, but not all, studies have shown lower high-density lipoprotein (HDL) levels in vegetarian subjects (29). Lower HDL levels may be due to the type or amount of dietary fat or to lower alcohol intake. This may help to explain the smaller differences in heart disease rates between vegetarian and nonvegetarian women be cause HDL may be a more important risk factor than LDL levels for women (159). Average triglyceride levels tend to be similar in vegetarians and nonvegetarians.

A number of factors in vegetarian diets may affect cholesterol levels. Although studies show that most vegetarians do not typically consume low-fat diets, saturated fat intake is considerably lower among vegetarians than nonvegetarians, and vegans have a lower ratio of saturated to unsaturated fat in their diets (29). Vegetarians also consume less cholesterol than nonvegetarians, although the range of intake varies considerably across studies. Vegan diets are free of cholesterol.

Vegetarians consume between 50% and 100% more fiber than nonvegetarians, and vegans have higher intakes than lacto-ovo-vegetarians (29). Soluble fiber may lower risk for cardiovascular disease by reducing blood cholesterol levels (160). Limited research suggests that animal protein is directly associated with higher serum cholesterol levels even when other dietary factors are controlled (161). Lacto-ovo-vegetarians consume less animal protein than nonvegetarians, and vegans consume no animal protein, Research shows that consumption of at least 25 g per day of soy protein, either in place of animal protein or in addition to the usual diet, reduces cholesterol levels in people with hypercholesterolemia (162). Soy protein may also raise HDL levels (162). Vegetarians are likely to consume more soy protein than the general population.

Other factors in vegetarian diets may impact cardiovascular disease risk independent of effects on cholesterol levels. Vegetarians have higher intakes of the vitamin antioxidants vitamins C and E, which may reduce oxidation of LDL cholesterol. Isoflavones, which are phytoestrogens found in soy foods, may also have antioxidant properties (163) as well as enhancing endothelial function and arterial compliance (164). Although there is limited information available about intake of specific phytochemicals among population groups, vegetarians appear to consume more phytochemicals than nonvegetarians because a greater percentage of their energy comes from plant foods. Some phytochemicals may affect plaque formation through effects on signal transduction and cell proliferation (165) and may exert antiinflammatory effects (166). Research from Taiwan found that vegetarians had significantly better vasodliation responses, which correlated directly with years on a vegetarian diet, suggesting a direct beneficial effect of vegetarian diet on vascular endothelial function (167).

Not all aspects of vegetarian diets are associated with reduced risk for heart disease. Some (89,103,168-171) but not all (62,172) studies have found higher serum homocysteine levels in vegetarians compared to nonvegetarians. Homocysteine is believed to be an independent risk factor for heart disease. Inadequate intake of vitamin B-12 may be the explanation. Vitamin B-12 injections lowered homocysteine levels in vegetarians, many of whom had low B-12 levels and high serum homocysteine (173). In addition, low intakes of n-3 fatty acids and a high ratio of n-6 to n-3 fatty acids in the diet may raise risk of heart disease among some vegetarians (173).

There are only limited data on the role of vegetarian diets as intervention for heart disease. Vegetarian diets used in these studies have usually been very low in fat. Because these diets have been used along with other lifestyle changes and they have produced weight loss, it has not been possible to ascertain any direct effect of adoption of vegetarian diet on risk factors for heart disease or mortality. Vegetarian diets can be planned to conform to standard recommendations for the treatment of hypercholesterolemia.

Hypertension

Many studies show that vegetarians have both lower systolic and diastolic pressures with differences between vegetarians and nonvegetarians generally falling between 5 and 10 mm Hg (29). In the Hypertension Detection and Follow-Up Program, blood pressure reduction of just 4 mm Hg caused marked reduction in mortality from all causes (174).

In addition to having lower blood pressures in general, vegetarians have markedly lower rates of hypertension than meat eaters (175,176). In one study, 42% of nonvegetarians had hypertension (defined as 140/90 mm Hg) compared with only 13% of vegetarians. Even semivegetarians are 50% more likely to have hypertension than vegetarians (4). Even when body weights were similar between subjects, vegetarians had lower blood pressures. Placing nonvegetarian subjects on a vegetarian diet led to reduced blood pressure in normotensive (177) and hypertensive subjects (178).

A number of studies have controlled for various factors that might help to explain the lower blood pressures of vegetarians and the hypotensive effects of changing to a vegetarian diet, The lower blood pressures do not appear to be due to lower BMI (175), exercise habits (179), absence of meat (180), milk protein (181), fat content of diet (182), fiber (183) or differences in potassium, magnesium, or calcium intakes (184). Because sodium intake of vegetarians is comparable or only modestly lower than that of nonvegetarians, sodium does not explain the differences either. Suggested explanations include a difference in blood glucose-insulin response because of a lower glycemic index of vegetarian diets (185) or a collective effect of beneficial compounds from plant foods (186).

Diabetes

Vegetarian diets can meet guidelines for the treatment of diabetes (187), and some research suggests that diets that are more plant-based reduce risk for type 2 diabetes. Rates of self-reported diabetes among Seventh-day Adventists (SDA) were less than half those of the general population, and, among SDA, vegetarians had lower rates of diabetes than nonvegetarians (188). In the Adventist Health Study, age-adjusted risk for developing diabetes for vegetarian, semivegetarian, and nonvegetarian men was 1.00, 1.35, and 1.97, respectively, and, for women, it was 1.00, 1.08, and 1.93 (4). Among the possible explanations for a protective effect of vegetarian diet are the lower BMI of vegetarians and higher fiber intake, both of which improve insulin sensitivity. However, among men in the Adventist Health Study, risk for diabetes was still 80% higher in nonvegetarian men after adjustment for weight. In men, meat consumption was directly associated with increased risk of diabetes. Among women, risk increased only when meat consumption exceeded five servings per week (188).

Cancer

Vegetarians have an overall lower cancer rate compared with the general population, but it is not clear to what extent this is due to diet. When nondietary cancer risk factors are controlled for, differences in overall cancer rates between vegetarians and nonvegetarians are greatly reduced, although marked differences remain in rates of certain cancers. An analysis from the Adventist Health Study that controlled for age, sex, and smoking found no differences between vegetarians and nonvegetarians for lung, breast, uterine, or stomach cancer but did find that nonvegetarians had a 54% increased risk for prostate cancer and an 88% increased risk for colorectal cancer (4). Other research has shown lower rates of colon cell proliferation in vegetarians compared with nonvegetarians (189) and lower levels of serum insulin-like growth factor-I, thought to be involved in the etiology of several cancers in vegans compared with both nonvegetarians and lacto-ovo-vegetarians (190). Both red and white meat have been indepe ndently linked to increased risk for colon cancer (4). Observational studies have found an association between high intake of dairy foods and calcium with increased risk for prostate cancer (191-193), although not all studies support this finding (194). A pooled analysis of 8 observational studies found no link between meat or dairy consumption and breast cancer (195).

Research suggests that a number of factors in vegetarian diets may impact cancer risk. Vegetarian diets come closer to matching the dietary guidelines issued by the National Cancer Institute than do nonvegetarian diets, particularly in regard to fat and fiber intakes (196). Although data on fruit and vegetable intake of vegetarians are limited, a recent study found that intake was considerably higher among vegans compared with nonvegetarians (62). High lifetime exposure to estrogen has been linked to increased breast cancer risk. Some research shows that vegetarians have lower serum and urinary estrogen levels (197). There is also some evidence that vegetarian girls begin menstruation at a later age, which may reduce cancer risk because of lower lifetime estrogen exposure (132,133). High fiber intake is believed to protect against colon cancer, although not all research supports this (198,199). The environment of the colon of vegetarians is strikingly different from that of nonvegetarians. Vegetarians have a lower concentration of potentially carcinogenic blle acids (200) and fewer intestinal bacteria that convert the primary blle acids into carcinogenic secondary blie acids (201). More frequent elimination and the levels of certain enzymes in the colon enhance elimination of potential colon carcinogens (200,202). Most research shows that vegetarians have lower levels of fecal mutagens (203).

Vegetarians do not consume heme iron, which has been shown to lead to the formation of highly cytotoxic factors in the colon increasing colon cancer risk (204). Finally, vegetarians most likely have higher intakes of phytochemicals, many of which have anticancer activity. Isoflavones in soy foods have been shown to have anticancer effects, particularly in regard to breast and prostate cancer, although this is not supported by all research (205,206).

Osteoporosis

Osteoporosis is a complex disease affected by a variety of lifestyle, dietary, and genetic factors. Although some data indicate that osteoporosis is less common in developing countries with a mostly plant-based diet, these studies have relied on hip fracture data, which has been found to be unreliable for comparing bone health across cultures. There is little evidence to suggest that bone mineral density differs between western nonvegetarians and lacto-ovo-vegetarians.

A number of studies have shown that high protein intake, from animal foods in particular, causes increased excretion of calcium and raises calcium needs (207-209). The effect is believed to be due to the increased acid load from metabolism of sulfur-containing amino acids (SAA). However, grains are also high in these amino acids, and some research shows that SAA intake was similar between nonvegetarians and vegetarians (210). Despite this, there is some evidence that postmenopausal women with diets high in animal protein and low in plant protein had a high rate of bone loss and a greatly increased risk of hip fracture (211). Although excessive protein intake may compromise bone health, there is evidence that low protein intakes could raise risk for poorer bone health (212). Although there are very little reliable data on bone health of vegans, some studies suggest that bone density is lower among vegans compared with nonvegetarians (213-215). Vegan women, like other women, may have low calcium intakes despite the availability of nondairy sources of well-absorbed calcium. Some vegan women may also have protein intakes that are marginal, and vitamin D status has shown to be compromised in some vegans (216-218). The lower serum estrogen levels of vegetarians may be a risk factor for osteoporosis. In contrast, short-term clinical studies suggest that soy protein rich in isofiavones decreases spinal bone loss in postmenopausal women (219). Higher intake of potassium and vitamin K among vegetarians may also help to protect bone health. However, the data suggest that a vegetarian diet does not necessarily protect against osteoporosis despite lower animal protein content.

Renal Disease

High intake of dietary protein may worsen existing kidney disease or increase risk for those who are susceptible to this disease because protein intake is associated with a higher glomerular filtration rate (GFR) (220). The GFR of healthy vegetarians is lower than that of nonvegetarians and even lower in vegans (221). The type of protein consumed may also have an effect, with plant foods having a more beneficial effect on GER than animal protein (222, 223). GER was 16% higher in healthy subjects after eating a meal containing animal protein compared with a meal with soy protein (222). Because the pathology of renal disease is similar to that of atherosclerosis, the lower serum cholesterol levels and reduced cholesterol oxidation resulting from a vegetarian diet may be beneficial for those with kidney disease.

Dementia

Although rates of dementia differ markedly throughout the world, differences in diagnostic criteria make cross-cultural comparisons difficult. In the United States, among SDA, those who ate meat were more than twice as likely to develop dementia (224). Those who had eaten meat for many years were more than three times as likely to develop signs of dementia. Diets high in antioxidants have been found to protect cognitive function (225-227). The lower blood pressure of vegetarians may also be protective. There is also some evidence that lower blood cholesterol protects against dementia (228). Higher homocysteine levels are linked to increased risk of dementia, and this may present one risk factor for vegetarians who do not get adequate vitamin B-12 (229-232). Although one observational study found an increased rate of dementia among Japanese American men who ate tofu regularly (233), the study had a number of methodological limitations, and other research has not supported these findings (234).

Other Health Effects of Vegetarian Diets

Diverticular disease

Gear and colleagues found that both male and female vegetarians aged 45 to 59 years were 50% as likely to have diverticulitis compared with nonvegetarians (235). Although fiber is believed to be the most important reason for this difference, other factors may have an effect as well. High-fat diets, independent of fiber intake, have been associated with increased risk of diverticulitis (236). Meat intake may also increase risk (236). Older research suggests that meat consumption may promote growth of bacteria that produce a toxic metabolite that weakens the wall of the colon (237).

Gallstones

In a study of 800 women aged 40 to 69 years, nonvegetarians were more than twice as likely as vegetarians to suffer from gallstones (238). The relationship held even after controlling for the three known risk factors for gallstones: obesity, gender, and aging.

Rheumatoid arthritis

Rheumatoid arthritis (RA), believed to be an autoimmune disease, involves inflammation of the joints. Several studies from one group of researchers in Finland suggest that fasting, followed by vegan diet, may be useful in treatment of RA (239,240).

Although data are very limited and more follow-up is needed before conclusions can be drawn, some studies suggest that a mostly raw foods vegan diet reduces symptoms of fibromyalgia (241) and that a vegetarian diet may reduce symptons of topical dermatitis (242).

PROGRAMS AND AUDIENCES IMPACTED

Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children

In the United States, the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) is a federal grant program that serves pregnant, postpartum, and breastfeeding women and infants and children up to 5 years of age who are documented as being at nutritional risk and with family income below state standards. This program provides checks or coupons to purchase some foods suitable for vegetarians, including infant formula, iron-fortified infant cereal, vitamin C-rich fruit or vegetable juice, carrots, cow's milk, cheese, eggs, iron-fortified ready-to-eat cereal, dried beans or peas, and peanut butter. Individual state agencies are allowed to submit a plan to USDA's Food and Nutrition Service for substitution of foods to allow for different cultural eating patterns, provided the proposed substitute food is nutritionally equivalent or superior to the food it replaces, is widely available, and does not cost more than the food it is to replace (243). This provision could possibly allow more foods suitable for vegans to be purchased.

Canada Prenatal Nutrition Program (CPNP), federally funded by Health Canada, and perinatal community programs provide vouchers, coupons, or groceries to those who meet the income and nutritional risk criteria for the program. Vouchers can be used for some foods acceptable to vegetarians, including milk, juice, cheese, eggs, fortified soymilk, and other foods (244).

Child Nutrition Programs

In the United States, the National School Lunch Program (NSLP) allows nonmeat protein products, including certain soy products, cheese, eggs, cooked dried beans or peas, yogurt, peanut butter, other nut or seed butters, peanuts, tree nuts, and seeds to be used (245,246). USDA information for school foodservice personnel includes several vegetarian and vegan quantity recipes (247). Few public schools regularly feature vegetarian menu items. School lunches are not adequate for vegans even when some vegan options are available because soymilk can only be served as a part of school lunch in cases of documented lactose intolerance.

In Canada, school lunch, breakfast, and snack programs; food selection standards; and provision for vegetarian meals vary from one region to another. Nationally, the Canadian Living Foundation's Breakfast for Learning program is developing Best Practice Program Standards for breakfast, snack, and lunch programs. Vegetarian meals based on Canada's Food Guide to Healthy Eating fit within this framework (248).

Feeding Programs for the Elderly

The federal Elderly Nutrition Program (ENP) distributes funds to states, territories, and tribal organizations for a national network of programs that provide congregate and home-delivered meals (often known as Meals on Wheels) for older Americans. Meals served under this program must provide at least one-third of the RDAs (249). Meals are often provided by local Meals on Wheels agencies. A 4-week set of vegetarian menus has been developed for use by the National Meals on Wheels Foundation (250,251).

Corrections Facilities

Court rulings in the United States and Canada have granted prison inmates the right to have vegetarian meals for religious and medical reasons (and in Canada, by choice, as well) (252,253). Federal institutions and those for many states and provinces provide vegetarian options for meals. The Canadian federal court has ruled that prison inmates who are opposed to eating meat have a constitutional right to be served vegetarian meals. The Freedom of Conscience provisions in the Charter of Rights allow prisoners to demand vegetarian fare for moral reasons, just as other inmates may request special meals on religious or medical grounds (252).

Military/Armed Forces

The US Army's Combat Feeding Program, which oversees all food regulations, provides a choice of vegetarian menus (254). Canadian Forces Food Services offers one or more vegetarian options at every meal (255). An estimated 10% to 15% of Canadian Forces members choose vegetarian meals for combat rations (individual meal packs) (256).

Other Institutions and Quantity Food Service Organizations

Other institutions, including colleges, universities, hospitals, restaurants, and publicly funded museums and parks offer varying amounts and types of vegetarian selections. Resources are available for vegetarian quantity food preparation (Figure 1). As interest in vegetarianism grows and because of the nutritional and health benefits of choosing a vegetarian diet, increased provision of vegetarian meals on a daily basis should be encouraged.

ROLE OF DIETETICS PROFESSIONALS

Vegetarian clients may seek nutrition counseling services for a specific clinical condition or for assistance in planning healthful vegetarian diets. They may sometimes be referred because of problems related to poor diet choices. Dietetics professionals have an important role in supporting clients who express an interest in adopting vegetarian diets or who already eat a vegetarian diet. It is important for dietetics professionals to support any client who chooses this style of eating and to be able to give current accurate information about vegetarian nutrition. Information should be individualized depending on type of vegetarian diet, age of the client, food preparation skills, and activity level. It is important to listen to the client's own description of his or her diet to ascertain which foods can play a role in meal planning. Figure 1 provides a listing of Web resources on vegetarianism. Figure 2 includes meal planning tips.

Qualified dietetics professionals can help vegetarian clients in the following ways:

* provide information about meeting requirements for vitamin B-12, calcium, vitamin D, zinc, iron, and n-3 fatty acids because poorly planned vegetarian diets may sometimes fall short of these nutrients;

* give specific guidelines for planning balanced lacto-ovo-vegetarian or vegan meals for all stages of the life cycle;

* adapt guidelines for planning balanced lacto-ovo-vegetarian or vegan meals for clients with special dietary needs because of allergies or chronic disease or other restrictions;

* be familiar with vegetarian options at local restaurants;

* provide ideas for planning optimal vegetarian meals while traveling;

* instruct clients about the preparation and use of foods that frequently are part of vegetarian diets; the growing selection of products aimed at vegetarians may make it impossible to be knowledgeable about all such products. However, practitioners working with vegetarian clients should have a basic knowledge of preparation, use, and nutrient content of a variety of grains, beans, soy products, meat analogs and fortified foods.

* be familiar with local sources for purchase of vegetarian foods. In some communities, mail order sources may be necessary.

* work with family members, particularly the parents of vegetarian children, to help provide the best possible environment for meeting nutrient needs on a vegetarian diet; and,

* if a practitioner is unfamiliar with vegetarian nutrition, he/she should assist the individual in finding someone who is qualified to advise the client or should direct the client to reliable resources.

CONCLUSIONS

Appropriately planned vegetarian diets have been shown to be healthful, nutritionally adequate, and beneficial in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle. There are many reasons for the rising interest in vegetarianism. The number of vegetarians in the United States and Canada is expected to increase over the next decade. Dietetics professionals can assist vegetarian clients by providing current, accurate information about vegetarian nutrition, foods, and resources.

General Vegetarian Nutrition:

Food and Nutrition Information Center, USDA http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/etext/000058.html

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/pubs/bibs/gen/vegetarian.htm

Loma Linda University Vegetarian Nutrition & Health Letter http://www.llu.edu/llu/vegetarian/vegnews.htm

Seventh-day Adventist Dietetic Association http://www.sdada.org/facts&ficfion.hfm

Vegan Outreach http://vwvw.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/heafth.html;

http://www.veganoutreach.org/heaIth/stayinghealthy.html

The Vegan Society (vitamin B-12) www. vegansociety.com/html/info/b12sheet.htm

Vegetarian Nutrition Dietetic Practice Group http://www.vegetariannutrition.net/

Vegetarian Resource Group http://www.vrg.org/

The Vegetarian Society of the United Kingdom http://www.vegsoc.org/health/

VegRD http://vegrd.vegan.com/

Travel:

Happy Cow's Global Guide to Vegetarian Restaurants www.happycow.net/

VegDining.com www.vegdining.com/Home.cfm

Vegetarian Resource Group www.vrg.org/travel/

Quantity Food Preparation:

Vegetarian Resource Group http://www.vrg.org/fsupdate/

FIG 1. Useful Web sites.

A variety of menu planning approaches can provide adequate nutrition for vegetarians. The Vegetarian Food Guide Pyramid and Vegetarian Food Guide Rainbow (72,73) suggest one approach. In addition, the following guidelines can help vegetarians plan healthful diets:

* Choose a variety of foods including whole grains, vegetables, fruits, legumes, nuts, seeds, and if desired, dairy products, and eggs.

* Choose whole, unrefined foods often and minimize the intake of highly sweetened, fatty and heavily refined foods.

* Choose a variety of fruits and vegetables.

* If animal foods such as dairy products and eggs are used, choose lower-fat dairy products and use both eggs and dairy products in moderation.

* Use a regular source of vitamin B-12 and, if sunlight exposure is limited, of vitamin D.

FIG 2. Meal planning.


Table

Vegetarian food sources of nutrients

Amount per
Nutrient serving

Iron mg

Soyfoods
Soybeans, cooked, 1/2 c (125 mL) 4.4
Soybeans, dry roasted, (soy nuts), 1/4 c (60 mL) 1.7
Soymilk 1/2 c (125 mL) 0.4-1.0
Tempeh, 1/2 c (83 g) 2.2
Tofu, firm, 1/2 c (126 g) 6.6
Veggie "meats," fortified, 1 oz (28 g) 0.5-1.9

Legumes (cooked, 1/2 c/125 mL)
Adzuki beans 2.3
Baked beans, canned, vegetarian 1.7
Black beans 1.8
Chickpeas, garbanzo beans 2.4
Great northern beans 1.9
Kidney beans 2.6
Lentils 3.3
Lima beans 2.2
Navy beans 2.3
Pinto beans 2.2

Nuts, peanuts, seeds, and their butters
Almonds, 1/4 c (60 mL) 1.5
Cashews, 1/4 c (60 mL) 2.1
Peanut butter, 2 tbsp (30 mL) 0.6
Peanuts, dry roast, 1/4 c (60 mL) 0.8
Pumpkin and squash seeds dried, 1/4 c (60 mL) 5.2
Sesame tahini, 2 tbsp (30 mL) 2.7
Sunflower seeds, toasted, 1/4 c (60 mL) 2.3

Breads, cereals, and grains
Barley, pearled, cooked, 1/2 c (125 mL) 1.0
Cereal, ready-to-eat, fortified, 1 oz (28 g) 2.1-18
Cream of Wheat, cooked, 1/2 c (125 mL) 5.1
Oatmeal, instant, fortified, cooked, 1/2 c (125 mL) 4.2
Oatmeal, regular, quick or instant, cooked, 1/2 c (125 mL) 1.6
Quinoa, cooked, 1/2 c (125 mL) 2.1
Wheat germ, 2 tbsp (149) 0.9
Whole wheat or white enriched bread, 1 slice (28 g) 0.9

Fruits (dried, 1/4 c/60 mL)
Apricots 1.5
Currants 1.2
Figs 1.1
Prunes 1.1
Raisins 1.1

Vegetables (cooked, 1/2 c/125 mL unless indicated otherwise)
Bok choy (Chinese cabbage, pak chol) 0.9
Broccoli 0.7
Green or yellow beans 0.8
Kate 0.6
Mung bean sprouts 0.8
Mushrooms 1.4
Potato, baked, with skin, 1 medium (173 g) 2.3
Tomato juice 0.7
Turnip greens 0.6

Other foods
Blackstrap molasses, 1 tbsp (15 mL) 3.5

Zinc
Soyfoods
Soybeans, cooked, 1/20 (125 mL) 1.0
Soybeans, dry roasted, 1/2 c (60 mL) 2.1
Soymilk, 1/2 c (125 mL) 0.3
Soymilk, fortified, 1/2 c (125 mL) 0.5-1.0
Tempeh, 1/2 c (83 g) 0.9
Tofu, firm, 1/2 c (126 g) 1.0
Veggie "meats," fortified, 1 oz (28 g) 1.2-2.3

Legumes (cooked, 1/2 c/125 mL) mg
Adzuki beans 2.0
Baked beans, canned, vegetarian 1.8
Black beans 1.0
Chickpeas, garbanzo beans 1.3
Great northern beans 0.8
Kidney beans 0.9
Lima beans 0.9
Lentils 1.2
Navy beans 2.3

Nuts, peanuts, seeds, and their butters
Almonds, 1/4 c (60 mL) 1.2
Cashews, 1/4 c (60 mL) 1.9
Peanut butter, 2 tbsp (30 mL) 0.9
Peanuts, dry roast, 1/4 c (60 mL) 1.2
Pumpkin and squash seeds, dried, 1/4 c (60 mL) 2.6
Sesame tahini, 2 tbsp (30 mL) 1.4
Sunflower seeds, toasted, 1/4 c (60 mL) 1.8

Breads, cereals, and grains
Barley, pearled, cooked, 1/2 c (125 mL) 0.6
Cereal, ready-to-eat, fortified, 1 oz (28 g) 0.7-15
Quinoa, cooked, 1/2 c (125 mL) 0.8
Wheat germ, 2 tbsp (14 g) 1.8
Whole wheat bread, 1 slice (28 g) 0.5

Vegetables (cooked, 1/2 cup/125 mL)
Mushrooms 0.7
Peas 1.0

Dairy foods and eggs
Cow's milk, 1/2 c (125 mL) 0.5
Cheddar cheese, 3/4 oz (21 g) 0.7
Egg, large, 1 (50 g) 0.5
Yogurt, 1/2 c (125 mL) 0.8-1.1

Calcium
Soyfoods
Cultured soy yogurt, fortified, 1/2 c (125 mL) 367
Soybeans, cooked, 1/2 c (125 mL) 88
Soybeans, dry roasted, (soy nuts), 1/4 c (60 mL) 60
Soybeans, green, 1/2 c (125 mL) 130
Soymilk, fortified, 1/2 c (125 mL) 100-159
Tofu, firm, calcium-set, 1/2 c (126 g) 120-430
Tempeh, 1/2 c (83 g) 92

Legumes (cooked, 1/2 c/125 mL)
Black beans 46
Chickpeas, garbanzo beans 40
Great northern or navy beans 60-64
Pinto beans 41
Vegetarian baked beans 64

Nuts, seeds and their butters
Almonds, 1/4 c (60 mL) 88
Almond butter, 2 tbsp (30 mL) 86
Sesame tahini, 2 tbsp (30 mL) 128


Breads, cereals, and grains
Cereal, ready-to-eat, fortified, 1 oz (28 g) 55-315

Fruits
Figs, dried, 5 137
Orange, 1 large 74
Orange juice, fortified, 1/2 c (125 mL) 150

Vegetables (cooked, 1 c/250 mL)
Bok choy (Chinese cabbage, pak choi) 167-188
Broccoli 79
Collard greens 239
Kale 99
Kale, Scotch 181
Mustard greens 109
Okra 107
Tumip greens 208

Other foods mg
Blackstrap molasses, 1 tbsp (15 mL) 172

Dairy products
Cow's milk, 1/2 c (125 mL) 137-158
Cheddar cheese, 3/4 oz (21 g) 153
Yogurt, plain, 1/2 c (125 mL) 137-230

Vitamin D mcg

Cereals, ready-to-eat, fortified, 1 oz (28 g) 0.5-1
Egg yolk, large, 1 (17 g) 0.6
Cow's milk, fortified, 1/2 c (125 mL) 1.2-1.3
Soymilk or other nondairy milk, fortified, 1/2 c (125 mL) 0.5-1.5

Riboflavin mg

Almonds, 1/4 c (60 mL) 0.3
Cereal, ready-to-eat, fortified, 1 oz (28 g) 0.2-1.7
Cow's milk, whole, 2% or skim, 1/2 c (125 mL) 0.2
Yogurt, 1/2 c (125 mL) 0.3
Egg, large, 1 (50 g) 0.6
Mushrooms, cooked, 1/2 c (125 mL) 0.2
Nutritional yeast miniflakes, 1 tbsp (3 g) 1.9
Soymilk, fortified, 1/2 c (125 mL) 0.2

Vitamin B-12 mcg

Cereals, ready-to-eat, fortified, 1 oz (28 g) 0.6-6.0
Cow's milk, 1/2 c (125 mL) 0.4-0.5
Egg, large, 1 (50 g) 0.5
Nutritional yeast (Red Star Vegetarian Support Formula),
miniflakes, 1 tbsp (3 g) 1.5
Soymilk or other nondairy milks, fortified, 1/2 c (125 mL) 0.4-1.6
Veggie "meats," fortified, 1 oz (28 g) 0.5-1.2

Linolenic acid g

Canola oil, 1 tbsp (15 mL) 1.3-1.6
Flaxseed, ground, 1 tbsp (15 mL) 1.9-2.2
Flaxseed oil, 1 tsp (5 mL) 2.7
Soybean oil, 1 tbsp (15 mL) 0.9
Soybeans, cooked, 1/2 c (125 mL) 1.0
Tofu, 1/2 c (126 g) 0.7
Walnuts, 1/4 c (60 mL) 2.7
Walnut oil, 1 tbsp (15 mL) 1.4-1.7

NOTE: Sources: Package information and data from US Department of
Agriculture, Agricultural Research Service, 2002; USDA Nutrient Database
for Standard Reference, Release 15; Nutrient Data Laboratory Home Page,
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp; Bhatty RS. Nutrient composition
of whole flaxseed and flaxseed meal. In: Cunnane SC, Thompson LU, eds.
Flaxseed and Human Nutrition. Champaign, IL: AOCS Press; 1995:22-42.
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(223.) Kontessis PA, Bossinakou I, Sarika L, lliopoulou E, Papantoniou A, Trevisan R, Roussi D, Stipsanelli K, Grigorakis S, Souvatzoglou A. Renal, metabolic, and hormonal responses to proteins of different origin in normotensive, nonproteinuric type 1 diabetic patients. Diabetes Care. 1995;18:1233.

(224.) Geim P. Beeson WL, Fraser GE. The incidence of dementia and intake of animal products: Preliminary findings from the Adventist Health Study. Neuroepidemiology. 1993;12:28-36.

(225.) Riedel WJ, Jorissen BL. Nutrients, age and cognitive function. Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 1998;1:579-585.

(226.) Olson DA. Association of vitamin E and C supplement use with cognitive function and dementia in elderly men. Neurology. 2000;55:901-902.

(227.) Ross GW, Petrovitch H, White LR, Masaki KH, Li CY, Curb JD, Yano K, Rodriguez BL, Foley DJ, Blanchette PL, Havilk R. Characterization of risk factors for vascular dementia: The Honolulu-Asia Aging Study. Neurology. 1999;53:337-343.

(228.) Wolozin B, Kellman W, Ruosseau P, Celesia GG, Siegel G. Decreased prevalence of Alzheimer's Disease associated with 3-hydrozy-3-methylglutaryl coenzyme A reductase inhibitors. Arch Neurol. 2000;57:1439-1443.

(229.) Snowdon DA, Tully CL, Smith CD, Riley KP, Markesbery WR. Serum folate and the severity of atrophy of the neocortex in Alzheimer's disease: Findings from the Nun Study. Am J Clin Nutr. 2000;71:993-998.

(230.) Nourhashemi F, Gillette-Guyonnet S, Andrieu S, Ghisolfi A, Ousset PJ, Grandjean H, Grand A, Pous J, Vellas B, Albarede JL. Alzheimer's Disease: Protective factors. Am J Clin Nutr. 2000;71 :643S-649S.

(231.) Nilsson K, Gustafson L, Hultberg B. The plasma homocysteine concentration is better than that of serum methylmalonic acid as a marker for sociopsychological performance in a psychogeriatric population. Clin Chem. 2000:46:691-696.

(232.) Delport R. Hyperhomocyst(e)inemia: Related vitamins and dementias. J Nutr Health Aging. 2000:4:195-196.

(233.) White LR, Petrovitch H, Ross GW, Masaki K, Hardman J, Nelson J, Davis D, Markesbery W. Brain aging and midlife tofu consumption. J Am Coil Nutr. 2000:19:242-255.

(234.) Rice MM, Graves AB, McCurry SM, Gibbons L, Bowen J, McCormick W, Larson EB. Tofu consumption and cognition In older Japanese American men and women. J Nufr. 2000;130(suppl 3):676S.

(235.) Gear JS, Ware A, Fursdon P, Mann JI, Nolan DJ, Broadribb AJ, Vessey MP. Symptomless diverticular disease and intake of dietary fibre. Lancet. 1979;1:511-514.

(236.) Aldoori WH, Giovannucci EL, Rimm EB, Wing AL, Trichopoulos DV, Willett WC, A prospective study of diet and the risk of symptomatic diverticular disease in men. Am J Clin Nutr 1994:60:757-764.

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(238.) Pixley F, Wilson D, McPherson K, Mann J. Effect of vegetarianism on development of gall stones In women. Br Med J (Clin Res Ed). 1985:291:11-12.

(239.) Kjeldsen-Kragh J. Rheumatoid arthritis treated with vegetarian diets. Am J Clin Nutr. 1999;70:594S-600S.

(240.) Muller H, de Toledo FW, Resch KL. Fasting followed by vegetarian diet in patients with rheumatoid arthritis: A systematic review. Scand J Rheumatol. 2001:30:1-10.

(241.) Donaldson MS, Speight N, Loomis S. Fibromyalgia syndrome improved using a mostly raw vegetarian diet: An Observational study. SMC Complement Altern Med. 2001;1:7.

(242.) Tanaka T, Kouda K, Kotani M, Takeuchi A, Tabel T, Masamoto Y, Nakamura H, Takigawa M, Suemura M, Takeuchi H, Kouda M. Vegetarian diet ameliorates symptoms of atopic dermatitis through reduction of the number of peripheral eosinophisl and of PGE2 synthesis by monocytes. J Physiol Anthropol Appl Human Sci. 2001:20:353-361.

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(245.) Modification of the "Vegetable Protein Products" requirements for the National School Lunch Program, School Breakfast Program, Summer Food Service Program and Child And Adult Care Food Program. (7 CFR 210, 215, 220, 225, 226) Federal Register. March 9, 2000:65:12429-12442.

(246.) US Department of Agriculture. Menu planning in the National School Lunch Program. Available at: http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/MenuPlanning/ menu.planning.approaches.for.lunches.doc. Accessed February 10, 2003.

(247.) US Department of Agriculture. A Toolkit for Healthy School Meals: Recipes and Training Materials. Available at: http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/schoolmeals/Training/train.html. Accessed February 10, 2003.

(248.) Canadian Living Foundation. Breakfast for learning. Available at: www.breakfastforlearning.ca. Accessed February 10, 2003.

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(250.) The Vegetarian Resource Group. 4-week Vegetarian Menu Set for Meals on Wheels Sites. Available at: http://www.vrg.org/fsupdate/fsu974/fsu974menu.htm. Accessed February 10, 2003.

(251.) Havala S, Abate T. The National Meals on Wheels Foundation Vegetarian Initiative: A unique collaboration. J Nutr Elderly. 1997:17:45-50.

(252.) Docket T-1487-99, September 29, 2000 and January 21, 2002, between Jack Maurice and Attorney General of Canada, Federal Court of Canada Trial Division,

(253.) Ogden A, Rebein P. Do Prison Inmates Have a Right to Vegetarian Meals? Vegetarian Journal Mar/Apr 2001. Available at: http://www.vrg.org/journal/vj2001mar/2001marprison.htm. Accessed February 10, 2003.

(254.) US Department of Defense. DOD Combat Feeding Program. Available at: http://www.sbccom.army.mil/programs/food/. Accessed February 10, 2003.

(255.) Department of National Defence. Food Services Direction & Guidance Manual, Chapter 2. Ottawa, ON, Canada: 2003.

(256.) Canadian Forces Food Services. Maple Leaf. 2000: Volume 3, Issue 39, page 14-15 and Issue 37, pages 14-15. Available at: www.forces.gc.ca/site/community/mapleleaf/htmLfiles/html_view.e.asp. Accessed February 10, 2003.

ADA Position adopted by the House of Delegates on October 18,1987, and reaffirmed on September 12, 1992, September 6, 1996 and June 22, 2000. This position was developed collaboratively between the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada. This position will be in effect until December 31, 2007. ADA authorizes republication of the position statement/support paper, in its entirety, provided full and proper credit is given. Requests to use portions of the position must be directed to ADA Headquarters at 800/877-1600, ext 4835, or ppapers@eatright.org Recognition is given to the following for their contributions:

Authors:

Ann Reed Mangels, PhD, RD, FADA (The Vegetarian Resource Group, Baltimore, MD);

Virginia Messina, MPH, RD (Nutrition Matters, Inc., Port Townsend, WA);

Vesanto Melina, MS, RD (NUTRISPEAK.COM, Langley, BC, Canada).

American Dietetic Association Reviewers.

Judith G. Dausch, PhD, RD (American Dietetic Association Government Relations, Washington, DC);

Sharon Denny, MS, RD (American Dietetic Association Knowledge Center, Chicago, IL);

Elaine K. Fleming, MPH, RD (Loma Linda University, Loma Linda, CA);

Food and Culinary Professionals DPG (Robin Kline, MS, RD, CCP, Savvy Food Communications, Des Moines, IA; Sylvia E. Klinger, MS, RD, Hispanic Food Communications, La Grange, IL);

D. Enette Larson-Meyer, PhD, RD (Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, LA);

Nutrition in Complementary Care DPG (Dennis Gordon, MEd, RD, Saint Joseph Mercy Health System, Ann Arbor, MI; Rita Batheja, MS, RD, Private Practice, Long Island, NY);

Pediatric Nutrition DPG (Maria Hanna, MS, RD, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, Philadelphia, PA; Cristine M. Trahms, MS, RD, FADA, University of Washington, Seattle, WA; Tamara Schryver, MS, RD, University of Minnesota, St. Paul, MN);

Sports, Cardiovascular, and Wellness Nutritionist DPG (Gita B. Patel, MS, RD, Alice Peck Day Memorial Hospital, Lebanon, NH; Pamela J. Edwards, MS, RD, University of Nebraska Lincoln, Lincoln, NE);

Vegetarian Nutrition DPG (Winston J. Craig, PhD, RD, Andrews University, Berrien Springs, MI; Catherine Conway, MS, RD, Private Practice, New York, NY);

Women and Reproductive Nutrition DPG (Judith B. Roepke, PhD, RD, Ball State University, Muncie, IN).

Dietitians of Canada Reviewers:

Karen Birkenhead, RD, (Group Health Centre, Sault Ste Marie, ON);

Samara Felesky Hunt (Consulting Dietitian, Calgary AB);

Susie Langley MS, RD (Nutrition Consultant in Private Practice, Toronto, ON);

Pam Lynch, MHE, RD (Nutrition Counselling Services, Halifax, NS);

Shefali Raja (Vancouver Coastal Health Authority, Vancouver BC);

Marilyn Rabin PDt (Douglas Hospital, Verdun, PQ);

Laura Toews, RD (St. Boniface General Hospital, Winnipeg, MB).

Members of the Association Positions Committee Workgroup:

Barbara Emison Gaffleld, MS, RD (chair), Barbara Baron, MS, RD; Suzanne Havala Hobbs, DrPH, RD, FADA (content advisor).

Copyright [c]2003 by the American Dietetic Association. doi: 10.1053/jada.2003.50142


Source Citation: Mangels, Ann Reed, Virginia Messina, and Vesanto Melina. "Position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada: vegetarian diets. ." Journal of the American Dietetic Association 103.6 (June 2003): 748(18). InfoTrac OneFile. Thomson Gale. Massey University Library. 16 Sep. 2006
.

Thanks for the posts... still reading.


What wild life? Where? Can you site the study please? Sounds interesting.

"It was of great interest to me then when in November of 2005, I heard a news report on a study of over 100,000 patients that showed that adding fiber to the diet will not prevent colon cancer. The freedom from colon cancer among the Ugandan blacks most likely was caused by the absence of red meat in their diet."

This statement seems extreamly unqualified unless I am missing something.

Just like low colon cancer was assumed to be due to high fiber intake.

It seems, that the 'experts' assume that we are all built the same.

Feed and Eskimo fiber and you will block him up. If this is the study I am thinking of the comparrisons on the Africans were done with comparisons on English Navy men (though I could be mixing it up. Regardless, the point is that you have to take into account the individual needs.

Fiber will do some well and some harm. Just like red meat will do some people well and some harm..

Still reading but I would like to know more about what the Ugandans ate. It claims they ate veg but I want more details.

If you really want more information I suggest going to your library and using the extensive reference list at the end of this article to do some further research.

(201.) Finegold SM, Sutter VL, Sugihara PT, Elder HA, Lehmann SM, Phillips RL. Fecal microbial flora in Seventh Day Adventist populations and control subjects. Am J Clin Nutr. 1977;30:1781-1792.

"Wow so many great ideas around that time and also published , not something I would put much credibility in or recomend to any one though!!!!"

come on...

wouldnt you, good on you. dont then.

Dismiss the whole report, I wont feel offended, its not mine.

I put this report up here for information sake from a reputable data base that has been peer reviewed and sourced well.

Alittle different from copy and pasting a comment from another thread onto this in reference to a book without any further background information given...dont you think.

Cheap shot, come on....

Glad to see you were so interested in the dates involved in the reference list that you looked through 201 of the 250+ to find the one from the 70s

top research skills

I'm not discounting it thank you. Making a point about your discussion skills. I just glanced through. I would bet money there is one before that one..

I like the posts and am interested.

Mark, I understand your distinction between health and fitness. Apples and Oranges? I dunno if they are that separate. To me, it is more like Apples and pears.

You certainly can't derive all qualities of health about a person by simply looking at them and observing their actions. However, I believe you can derive some things.

Especially things that are typically associated with vegan/veggie diets.

Weak, thin, emaciated, non-aggressive, low energy, lack of stamina...

They are also things that I've heard people associate with veggie diets.

If you saw those qualities in a person, those could be signs of poor health, right?

Athletes such as Mac Danzig (and I've read about others...I'll have to look them up again) provide an example that seems to counter those speculations that a veggie diet automatically has those results (the ones I listed above).

Cool cool...

But the body is so friggin amazing. When its rarely short on what it NEEDS to do the priority task cause it robs from a less important one.

Exercise (read stress) is a priority. Why? Cause your body doesn't know its not in fight or flight. Its survival so it producess what is needed to run away from the bear etc

So if not balanced this can still be effective-by the time it effects performance big time or shows up its been building for a long time.

Athletes are great examples.

Digestion is shut down when in fight or flight, repair and growth is shut down, reproductive hormones are shut down (how many times you see a guy running for his life with a hard on?-then you hear athletes saying they aren't interested in sex close to a fight-why? cause they are using up all the sex hormones for the fight or flight response. A likely bet they have digestive issues. If you have digestive issues you have hormone issues (even though in this case we're going the other way) and we all know hormones effect everything.

Immune function is suppressed. Do you really need to fight off cancer while being chaced by a crocodile?

But because in a stress response and because the body is amazingly good at making do and or taking from other areas you have enough resorces to be in the fight or flight for a long time.

So an athlete can perform for a long time (because training is stress-read fight or flight) while continually depleting store or robbing from other areas etc etc.. Few years later, depending on strength of genes, on other factors etc etc Performance drops (and we say getting old and stop) and or more and more injuries, more and more illnesses and very likely a disease process-lets say cancer. Oh but thanks God for doctors and radiation etc etc Must be in my genes why I got it. (anyone who says its alot to do with life style is a fluff!!) While the whole time we supress the immune system, inflame the digestive system, use all are growth and repair hormones for stress (including the stress of viagra cause we need artificial help to get it up so we can screw and feel like a man).

You can see poor health from poor fittness but good fittness is not alone a sign of health IMO


There are too many signs-I have heard loads of stories about top athletes, I meanthe big names who are f^%$ed but still go out and perform...

However, IF you believe the disease process isn't just chance and genes and realise that it can progress over 10, 15, 20 years... then you can start to look at how and why it progresses.

Its a totally different paradigm.

1-Genes/virus=wamma disease-go get pill, burned, friend, cut open.

2-Expression of genes, host more important than invador, terin more important than invador

I believe in 2. Most believe in 1.

If you choose to believe in 1 then that is the experiences you will have. If you choose to believe in 2 then you will have those experiences. IMO

So I htink you are right but...

thats terrain..

A well worded simply put explination of the theory that becoming animal lovers and plant haters will save the world (yes playing with words-will that stop you from absorbing possible info? what programming do we already have that dicates how we view info that challenges our beliefs?).

Ok seriously this is a simply put explination of why the theory that it takes less space for plant farming than animal farming is falwed. Actually I have heard other aspects that get more detailed but what is covered here is pretty straight forward.

"Animal Farming Is An Efficient Use Of Land

The human population of this planet is now approaching six billion and, even if every country on Earth enforced a strict and effective birth-control policy today, it is estimated that the total population will climb to fifteen billion before stabilizing.

The Earth's total land area is 179,941,270 square kilometers (69,479,518 square miles). A little simple mathematics tells us that at present, on average, one square kilometer has to support just over thirty-three people. If all of it were cultivated, that would certainly be possible.

The argument fails, however, because not all of it is available for arable cultivation. The main environmental factors that determine plant development and distribution are climate and soil type.

We can discount the whole of the unproductive continent of Antarctica, so that reduces the total by 13,335,740 square kilometers immediately. We can also discount, at least as far as arable farming is concerned, all other ice-covered areas, tundra, mountains, deserts, heath and moor land, areas covered by rivers, salt marshes and lakes, cities, roads, and railways; and to a large extent semi-deserts, savannah, rain forest, low-lying meadow land and areas liable to regular flooding. We have now discounted most of the Earth's surface.

In fact, only eleven percent of the land surface is farmed.

Almost all of the land we have just discounted does support grass or other plant life that we cannot utilize directly. We need a system that converts that grass into a form of food that we can eat.

And we have one: much of the land we have discounted for arable use can be, and is, used for the raising of food animals. Take New Zealand, for example. Here we have a country of 269,000 square kilometers - larger than Great Britain - with a human population of 3 million, a sheep population of 42 million and many cattle.

When I was in New Zealand for three months in Spring 1999, I didn't see one field of grain. It wasn't surprising: as the ground is rarely flat and the volcanic rock on which New Zealand is built is very close to the surface, that country is quite unsuitable for the cultivation of grain. And the same applies to many other parts of the world."


"The Naive Vegetarian Part 1"

http://www.mercola.com/2002/feb/2/vegetarian.htm

animals act like farmers and condense nutrition from plants for us. Personally I am extreamly greatful to them.

Another aspect which I don't think is covered is trying the amounts of omega 6 to 3 ratios.

An imbalance in this ratio leads to inflammation.

If you love the poor animals (I do too) then I suggest reading "The Secret Life Of Plants". In it we find that plants react to threat and pain (amoung other things) and are very much alive. I believe in treating all life with respect but the circle of life has always been. To stop that would mean death. We eat LIVING things and they eventually eat us. That is simply how it works.

Of course this is my opinion.

We all believe what we choose to believe. And thats cool but I think we should challenge what we base those beliefs on, even if we don't change them.

Nothing wrong with believing one should eat vegan or veg.. I'm not even questioning that. I am questioning what the basis of that might be or the 'facts' that support it.

This is a great article by the way!! Some great points, facts and research.

http://www.mercola.com/2006/dec/12/finally-we-know-why-cooking-grains-can-poison-your-food.htm

cooked grain=poison hmmmm where are you getting your protein?