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The Ax Forum
Muay Thai & Kickboxing Forum Mixed Martial Arts Forum Boxing Forum Fight Training Forum Off Topic Forum
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Farhad
Posted: 2011-10-02 10:07:27
I have a Fighter who has 13kg to lose in 6 weeks!!!

Do you have any tips ;)

Do you think im being ambitious? Its obvious he has a bit of a "spread" round the midriff, so its not as if hell be losing muscle mass. He started training camp for the fight at the beginning of September. The fight date is November the 19th.
Has he started a bit late?
(i did try to get him in the gym in August for "pre camp" but he seemed to be busy everytime)

Hints and Tips?
keerin
Posted: 2011-10-02 10:22:11
I am no expert in weight cutting or dieting but my first thought is to make sure he stops eating meat. He only needs enough protein to stop his body from using up his muscle, so 15g protein twice a day (11 and 3) should be fine. Egg whites and spinach for breakfast and poultry or fish (grilled) for dinner.

I might be wrong but that's how I'd start mate. Also I'm make sure he was doing hill or stair sprints. good for fighting but also good for weight loss! Good luck to you both.
Farhad
Posted: 2011-10-02 10:32:59
Hes drinking protein shakes and hes always "dropping bombs" and stinking the fighters class out (its gross)
muaythai-tours
Posted: 2011-10-02 11:06:38
cut 1 leg ....
smiffy
Posted: 2011-10-02 12:43:27
has he tried water loading ,try that first aswell as changing his diet replace the carbs with proteins and see how he goes if he's still struggling get him to speak to paul crossley
smiffy
Posted: 2011-10-02 12:48:17
2 kg a week'S not a massive cut if he's struggling getting closer to the fight date he could use salt baths to get the last few kilo's off i would only sauna as a last resort if other methods don't work
chris podesta
Posted: 2011-10-02 12:51:17
like this. i
have 10kg to lose.
oneofthegalaxytwins
Posted: 2011-10-02 14:01:04
Maybe he should have considered loosing weight earlier Farhad as 13kg is quite a lump to lose in 6 weeks not impossible but possible doctors/nutritionalist advice would be a safer bet.
chris podesta
Posted: 2011-10-02 14:15:03
True . I'm losing 10kg for feb
david eckersley
Posted: 2011-10-02 14:35:01
Bloody hell Farhad thats a big ask!

Your experienced enough to know this.

It depends firstly on initial size - a 70kg persom will stuggle to lose that in a year!

A 120kg person can do this in a few weeks.

I have never followed the thought process of "be as light as you can to make weight"
I prefer be the strongest you can at "your" weight. Then gradually adjust your weight to be lower or higher etc.

to get a 80kg/90kg person to lose this AND remain strong and fight ready - which is my assumption - is something i wouldnt do unless this fighter had a previous good record of big weight cuts.

generally a safe bet is 2Lb a week ie a kilo a week.

then you can sauna and sweat the moisture out of yourself for weigh in but if it is an on the day weigh in I would highly advise against!

This big weight cut plus dehydration can result in easy knockouts and more seriously brain damage, as is well known in boxing circles.

Train like a psycho yes but a safe psycho!
OSU
david eckersley
Posted: 2011-10-02 14:42:11
Also

FORGET the hill sprints!!!!!!!!!!!

Great for explosive bursts yes but not for weight loss?!?!?!?!


fat burn for 1 hour each day 7 days a week - ie treadmill at 6mph for 1 hour or bike at the same pace for 2. low impact, wont affect the ability to train explosively and WILL burn calories.

Remember your looking to get the body to engage in "fat burn" mode NOT "cardio endurance".

Salt baths etc just remove water which will be replenished - this isnt the way to lose fat!

Salt baths are fol conditioned fighters to lose the extra few pounds. Other than this its pointless and to me shows no regard for your fighter!

Put the fighter in the right category to begin with then gradually adjust either up or down.

OSU
Farhad
Posted: 2011-10-02 16:00:57
David ,
You are right he should have been in the gym earlier and i did warn him. However he has a title to defend!!! Its night before weigh in anyway and hes on late.

As it is hes a FAT B*****d!!!
LOL
You can see his bulge round his stomach, he needs to lose that anyway. He has already lost about 4 or 5 kg anyway. Just needs to lose another 111 or 12kg now.


mark barlow
Posted: 2011-10-02 16:11:51
chris you need to lose more than 10kgs mate lol
keerin
Posted: 2011-10-02 16:16:47
David -

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mohr102.htm
http://www.mcnewsletters.com/articles/uphill-sprints.html

Sprinting is better for weight loss than low intensity roadwork.

from Rosstraining.com

"This form of training (tabata protocol sprints is also effective for fat loss. Intense interval work will raise the body's metabolic rate long after the exercise session is completed. Post workout fat loss is the end result. Many recent studies have confirmed that the powerful "after-effect" of interval training is more effective (for fat loss) than low-intensity, continuous exercise. Such research assumes that a true maximal effort is applied however. Interval training is like many things in life, you get what you put into it."
keerin
Posted: 2011-10-02 16:27:15
more on High Intensity Interval Training

Basically, what researchers have found is that steady cardio burns the same number or more calories during the activity as HIIT, but HIIT continues to burn more calories even after you’re done. While steady state cardio might burn more fat calories, when it comes to losing weight, it doesn’t matter what kind of calories you burn, only the total number of calories.


Furthermore, HIIT increases fat oxidation (fat burning) in muscle fibers; research showed that people who did HIIT on a regular basis had lower body fat percentages than those who did steady state cardio.

from: http://evilcyber.com/fitness/primer-hiit-high-intensity-interval-training/

The studies demonstrating this stuff are from like 1994 such as: Tremblay A, Simoneau JA, Bouchard C (1994). "Impact of exercise intensity on body fatness and skeletal muscle metabolism". Metab. Clin. Exp. 43 (7): 814–8. (pdf here: http://www.colorado.edu/intphys/Class/IPHY3700_Greene/TIPS/exIntesity/Tremblay.pdf)
david eckersley
Posted: 2011-10-02 18:27:07
Kerin, thankyou for the response

Cut and paste is a wonerful thing.

However in the real world the facts are that if that method worked every athelete would use it - however most fighters use roadwork/treadmill work for this.

I dont doubt the statistical evidence as who am I do contest scientific evidence.

But I know the real world limits of weight loss for a competetive fight scenario. If this guy, as farhad says is over weight then maybe he should have either a higher weight class or wait longer to fight until his body is at a weight he feels comfortable fighting at.

Fighting out of your weight class is always going to be tough - lighter or heavier.

Train to your best performance weight class

I cant be 75kg - I may be able to build up to 70 but it would take time

Ive done 59/60, wont do it again ( partly because im 36 this year lol and have no desire to) but I had no strength but was very fast and active.

Please could we all move away from lighter is better!!!

Its outdated, unhealthy and can be dangerous

The Crippler
Posted: 2011-10-02 18:56:07
David I agree Keerin on the running front (even if he did copy and paste) in terms of HIT over aerobic based but IMO its about far more than just running.
IMO, its just not that simple, if you truely want to lose weight from fat you have to get your body into a state where can and is using fat as an energy source and for that to happen there are far more pieces to the puzzle.

On the flip side I completly disagree with the low protein statement.

Many people have thier own ideas, mine come from research, personal real world experience/trial and from clients.

P.s If somebody doesn't think HIT is good for fat burning..... take a look on the atheltics track..... not to many fat sprinters..... and they defo dont go for long, low intensity runs.
david eckersley
Posted: 2011-10-02 19:12:26
Hi Crippler

I dont disagree with the "research" however were not in body building - pure weight loss isnt the only goal here.

most of us knowledgable trainers could get this guy to drop this weight( we would all refuse on ethics though) - but I tell you now he would be unhappy, unhealthy and very very unable to fight!!

Ive trained body builders (competetive top uk standard) and spoken in detail about diet etc. 99 percent look awesome on stage but are WEAK and dangerously dehydrated.

Fight sports require a different viewpoint.

This is why I LOVE what the mma world has done.

It hasnt stuck to 1 protocol but found what works and what doesnt

That works for standup too.

If you cant safely make weight your coach should know.
If not

Change coach - they dont have your best interests or health at heart.
The Crippler
Posted: 2011-10-02 19:46:06
Hi David, again, I kinda both agree and disagree, BB's tend to be weak due to the extremes they take it to, esp with the dehydration.
I was more commenting on the 6wk weight cut side of things, how much fighters choose to lose via dehydration especailly acute dehydration, for me is something different again.

I was having this discussion tonight.
Many of the top fighters now rerehydrate intravenously, which is something many guys dont take into account when they read up and try to replicate in thier weight cut.

I was formaly an athlete & was luckliy enough to collect knowledge from some of the worlds top guys and now adapt & apply it to other situations. Again I agree that SO many people look at BB's and what they do and try following it (including S&C) understanding the differences.
The things the guys do in MMA aren't new, just new to some people ;-) !
Due to media train behind MMA, what those top guys do training wise is now out in the public forum.
billy hatton
Posted: 2011-10-02 20:11:57
i lose 9kg in a week before a fight not nice and i wouldn't recomend it hahaha x
The Crippler
Posted: 2011-10-02 20:22:11
Billy, you only weight about 9kgs you little nutter!!!!
billy hatton
Posted: 2011-10-02 20:27:57
hahahahah!!! i fuckin wish i am fatman lol x
david eckersley
Posted: 2011-10-02 20:51:30
Hi Crippler

I agree in many ways

BB does take things to masive extremes - this is for visuals asthectice for their sport.

Try that in any other sport and your dead in the water.

I also agree with the mma methods - not much is new!

BUT

the open minded willingness to find other methods of being - stronger - faster - fitter etc is a quality I think lots of us could learn from.

FFS Rocky chased a chicken etc... does flipping tyres help?

physically yes it has strength and balance issues - but more to the point flip that tyre enought then smash the $hit out of it with a hammer creates a supreme feeling of - im gonna kill YA!!

the more we link physical training with specific mental goals then the stronger the training "desire / drive" so to speak.

but back to topic..

Farhad ... make him wait. Dont push the fight unless your fighter has a real and safe chance of making the fight weight.

As coach/instructor etc we sometimes carry "jedi" power to our students.

If we say it is possible they believe it.

This can be as good as it is bad.

By the way Im not a Jedi

Im the Highlander or Neo - there can be only one!
The Crippler
Posted: 2011-10-02 21:09:19
:-)
I agree about the open mindness, but again caution is needed as I think many people/gyms just do things for the sake of doing them without thoughts about the true results gained.
For me (& im guessing you), training should be result driven, ie, I require "a particular outcome", and then you find a method that helps achieve that goal.
as the saying goes, knowledge & understanding is power but a little knowledge is dangerous!!!! I've seen some real crazy stuff ;-)

On topic, again I tend to agree about the weight cut.
IMO theres nothing wrong with a good & safe weight cut when its fat your trying to lose and your looking at it from a long term perspective.

What are peoples thoughts on weight differences over 100Kg?
Isnt 95Kg+ a pretty open weight category, what are the max differences people/coaches are happy with above this weight?
Sandy Holt
Posted: 2011-10-02 22:38:50
1 train hard
2 drink loadsa water at least 2 litres a day
3. run 3 times a week approx 3 mils
4 train 4 times a week Thai ? kick?
5. no weights
5. NO Fried food, No Takeaways, No McCraps or Kfc or Indians or Burger King, English fat n chips
6. eat 4 small meals a day include 2 poss snacks between ( bananas )
7. You are what you eat n drink

now thats the sandy diet / training advice the scientific stuff all above this post tooooooooooooooo much
just do the basics and use common sense !

and stop being fat git and u too Farhad lol
and Wai sawadee
eat Thai food you will lose weight
you dont see many Fat Thais Only tjhose eating Americam food and western food near tiurist places ! Ruination of Mankinds health McCrappy D's and co: have a LOT to answer for :-(((


& Not a USS oss woss wuss in sight! :-p
keerin
Posted: 2011-10-03 05:45:11
Hey, as I said I'm no expert and I'm not claiming to be. I've had to lose weight and I researched what other people thought was the most efficient way. Same with getting in fight shape. I copied and pasted because experts can say these things much better than I can. There are loads of ways to lose weight, I just looked for the most efficient way no matter how bloody horrible and vomit inducing it is.
marianne
Posted: 2011-10-03 09:05:25
diet hasnt been mentioned that much on here, whether you do interval training or standard running it matters little if your eating massive amounts of food or even worse massive amounts of the wrong food.
and someone who has a lot of weight to loose in 6 weeks (like 13kg!!!) will most definitely need to be on a completely different training programme/diet.

if you put that much weight on in between fights then you are giving yourself a mountain to climb every time fight training starts.

starting fight training/correct diet the appropriate time before a fight is important (assuming that people dont eat well in between fights). some people think 8 weeks is too long before but it allows you to split the training up into stages with the first part focusing more on the bulk of the weight coming off (if needs be) then increasing the intensity of the work and loosing the remaining weight steadily and safely as the weeks go on.

imo weight cutting shortly before the fight is dangerous and messing with your body on a cellular level. if you cant make a weight or at least 1 or 2kg near it in time for a fight then you shouldnt be fighting at that weight. thats only my opinion however, i know other people disagree especially in the case of high level pro fighters.

as far as running v interval training is concerned they both have their place in prep. again just our way of doing things, but our fighters do 3 long runs a week if they have some weight to shift in the first part of training and one set of intervals at the local track, in stage 2 (4 weeks out) they change to hill sprints 3 times a week and one set of flat intervals. obviously combined with everything else. it works fine for them. but every fighter/body is different. trial and error!




chris podesta
Posted: 2011-10-03 09:12:37
Cheers Mark...lol
lost 6kg 80kg now
want to get back to 70kg
still got 5 kg in each tit.....
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Damien_34
Posted: 2011-10-03 12:13:32
Periodisation of training (strength/endurance/explosive) and the correct diet are the right way of doing this, safely, even then 13kg is a big ask in 6 weeks.

HIIT training over steady state training is a risk due to the higher incidence of injury with HIIT training, although steady state is boring as hell it would be safer.

The Fighter cant really be that serious about defending and keeping their title being 13kgs over fight weight 6 weeks out.


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