NOTICE
This Thread is going to be cleaned up and I'm going to pull out all of the junk and allow Rudy a change to participate again for a 2nd round. Stay tuned.

(This was spawned from the "Thai Girls" thread, which went off topic into whether people think girls should fight or not.)

Alright, you bastards. I'm taking my gloves off for this debate.
Let's hear it! If you think that women should not fight in ring sports, explain yourself!

And don't post something simple like "I just think it's wrong". You'll have to rationalize it a bit more than that.

If you are easily offended, then you probably should avoid this thread, because this topic makes me angry.

I hate to see hot woman get battered around! (please not the face.. NOT THE FACE!) but its good to see a good scrap between woman..... just don't get ugly because of it.

As i put in the other post,

I have been brought to believe that men shouldnt hurt women, in any way shape or form.

If i had to fight a girl in the ring i couldnt do it, id have to step out of the ring.

I have fought girls before, i couldnt hit her and i couldnt block, i got hit with a chair by one in the head, i could have stopped it, but id have to have hurt her.

Thats not being sexist either thats just my view.

Sorry if that offended anyone, it wasnt meant that way.

Porsche 911 - women dont fight men! Women fight other women. What are you on about?
I'm not surprised a woman hit you with a chair!

ok great Porsche...I'm glad that you don't like to hit women. Though I'm not an advocate of "never hit a woman". If a woman came at me with a knife, she getting hit, regardless of her gender.

But that is not the topic here.
As Mr Smith pointed out, female fighters fight other female fighters.
The question is whether you think women should compete in fighting sports.

So, back to the topic...

My views are documented

Woman's Kickboxing fights are usually of a higher calaber than male fights.
On top level women's fights there is alot more skills shown which make kickboxing look good to the audiance.
There has been quite a few woman's fights i have seen that have had standing ovations from the crowd cos they were that good. You don't se to many standing ovatiopns at male fights.

Well, Women do fight so whom ever does not like it can get over it!

I Aplogise Now............










"YES"

for the "Caps"

Someone said in the other threat, that some of the best fights he had seen were from women (getting a standing ovation at the end). I have to agree! Of course I have seen some average ones to, but in general I find women are very focused and have more of an ability to look 3 moves ahead. I think more women are in there for different motivational reasons than guys. A lot of guys fight because it's a way of expressing their man hood, their masculinity. They might not neccessarily be very good at it, but the status of being a "fighter" is what drives them. Although women still need to have a certain level of that agression to get by in the ring, I think they tend to be more level headed and work harder on perfecting their techiques.

I do not care to see a women's fight either in mma because it appears much more brutal for whatever reason and not so feminine. I am ok with however with women kickboxers and kickboxing between two women...as I feel kickboxing involves more scientific skill then mma.

"Woman's Kickboxing fights are usually of a higher calaber than male fights."

Highlander are you loco? Do you have any figures or surveys to support that awesome statement buddy? Tell me I'm wrong but the best fights and fighters in the world are MEN!

Reason #1 why chicks shouldnt be encouraged to fight
The Boyz do it better! thats why all the prestiege and money is focused on the chaps. As a spectator you'll get more bang for your buck from watching the fellas go round.

Reason #2 why chicks shouldnt be encouraged to fight
Males were designed by nature for combat roles. Thats why we are bigger faster and stronger, mentally more agressive it's called TESTOSTERONE, and in times long ago we needed these attributes to hunt for and defend our familys and homes, females just didnt get cut out for that. Natures design.

Reason #3 why chicks shouldnt be encouraged to fight
It just aint chilvarous to stand around and watch our fairer sex smash each other. They are our girlfriends, wives, daughters, they are mothers. It's not manly to applaud their suffering and I wince when I see a stunned girl turn involntarily away from a volley of head shots.

I never saw the attraction in female fights, perhaps its value is one of morbid facination. I'm not saying we should stop the girls from gloving up but maybe suggest self defence, kick-fit or a kata based martial art.

I don't think there is anything wrong with it. Everyone seems to support the ladies when they are in the ring, the entire crowd gets behind them. Also the training is good exercise which everyone needs.

I used to think about this for many hours while my daughter was still training.

Whether I'd ever let her fight or not while still under my care.

My conclusion was, that I wouldn't have such issues with a son.

To me, equal gender rights, at least in theory, should also mean equal sentiment.

Do you guys remember the friggen fuss over the captured female soldier?
So, I reckon people getting accustomed to female boxing, or fighting in whichever sport men can legally participate is a good thing for a forward thinking society.

Perhaps it may one day de-sensetize us to truly treat women closer as equals.

Rudy

To back up Highlander's point - just over a year ago, Highlander put on a show with 5 New Zealand Titles and a South Pacific Title at stake. There were 5 mens fights and 1 women's fight. The women's fight got fight of the night because it was the best fight to watch - I know this as being 100% true because I was one of the women fighting.

Also, you mention that it's hard for guys to watch their girlfriends, etc get bashed around - but I watched my boyfriend get knocked out in the ring - do you not think that was just as hard to watch?

I am the only female fighter in our gym and regularly train with the guys on the same level as them. I can punch and kick harder than most of them because I have better technique than them, and they know that if they hold back on me then I'll take advantage of that weakness in them and hit them.

Thai boxing / Kickboxing is a male dominated sport and females coming into the sport have to realise that but it they are prepared to train as hard, if not harder sometimes, then why shouldn't they have the same opportunities too. There is only a small proportion of female fighters compared to men, but they are tough girls and deserve to be treated on the same level playing field.

i prefer to watch women fight low kick kickboxing bouts :P
they look great in the thai shorts and thge kickboots
very sexy :)

I think women should fight three minute rounds just like men.

imho, Its insulting and condescending to limit women to two minute rounds.

I would love to know who the idiot was that decided they can only go 2 minutes at a time.

Woemn who train can develop just as much stamina as men.

3 minute rounds gives the fans their money's worth, and also tends to weed out those few who arent motivated to train and get in shape.

dan

dan
Your wish will come true on 31st july on my Womens WKB-1 Event.
All the womans fights are 3 x 3min rounds just like in K-1

And Rudy
You obviously have'nt seen to many female fights

Rudy wrote:

"It's not manly to applaud their suffering and I wince when I see a stunned girl turn involntarily away from a volley of head shots."

This is the same kind of argument people use who don't like men's boxing, kickboxing etc, and we all get upset when they try to tell us we shouldn't be allowed to fight.

Just like men, women fight because they ENJOY it. Who are we to tell them they're not allowed?

Watching a female fight who's proficient in muay thai is just as exciting as watching men who are also proficient in muay thai. Some female fights aren't exciting......some male fights aren't exciting. Rudy, it's the year 2004, women can do what they want. If you wouldn't enjoy watching someone like Lucia Rijker or Erin Linley fight, then I feel sorry for you, cuz you'd be missing out on a wonderful display of muay thai (not to mention many other women accross the world who would put on a great show). A fight is a fight.

"The Boyz do it better! thats why all the prestiege and money is focused on the chaps. As a spectator you'll get more bang for your buck from watching the fellas go round."

If you don't want to watch two world class female fighters fight full muay thai, then you need to live in the now and aren't a true lover of muay thai. I know I want to see a good fight whenever possible regardless if it's two males or two females. A great fight is exactly what it is-a great fight! The womens muay thai circuit is growing in popularity and I think it will only get more and more popular because more women are competing, pushing the limits, and doing great things for the sport.

The average Joe on the street likes to see women fight more than men. because he can't fight and so he cant relate to male fighters whom he often finds intimidating -but, he can identify with women who are smaller, a bit slower, closer to his strength, and have dont possess overwhelming (to him) power. He likes to wonder if he could possible hang with them in the ring-because he feels(usually mistakenly) that it might actually be achievable.

but, he knows full well he would be totally destroyed by even the smallest male pro.

It seems most of the guys who really dislike women fighting are
usually fighters themselves. And they think because they are faster, bigger and stronger, that they are therefore "better".

In other words, they think that Just because they can beat a woman using their superior size, speed, strength, etc.

But, By that logic, 52-55 kg male fighters are not as "good" as 95 kg and up/super heavyweights-simply because the best male flyweight in the world could not beat even a mediocre super heavyweight.

the same principle is at work for women's pro tennis. most men who hate womens pro tennis (or any female pro sport except maybe figure skating) are the top male players.

the average Joe often prefers to watch the women because he likes to speculate and wonder if he might actually be able to return her 80-90 mph
serves.

But, a male pro's 120-130 mph serve-forget-it psychologically overwhelms him. he cant even see it, and can't possibly relate.

bigger doesnt always mean better-

dan

PS: Good for you, Highlander!!!-three minute rounds is a great step forward for the ladies.

There are a good amount of people expressing some intelligent points in this thread. I'm gonna hold back my comments for now.

However, I am, once again, consumed by the frustration of observing ignorance.
Rudy, I'm gonna shove a spear through your comments and barbeque them.

I can't pass this up though...

USA Fighter writes "I am ok with however with women kickboxers and kickboxing between two women...as I feel kickboxing involves more scientific skill then mma."

MMA rules allow Kickboxing techniques to occur within them. If Kickboxing requires technique then so does MMA, naturally. Whether you need technique or not to compete has more to do with your opponent than with the rules. My $0.02

"Rudy, I'm gonna shove a spear through your comments and barbeque them."
I was more thinking of his head.

The idea of things being 'manly' or 'unfeminine' as arguments against women fighting is completely spurious. Typical masculine and feminine traits are in a large part socially constructed and so they can and should change as society changes. Women who fight do not lack 'femininity' (whatever that is) and are not trying to 'become more like men'. We all have tendons, muscles, bones, brains for strategizing and fight or flight instincts. Men and women are a lot more ALIKE than they are different.

and as for men who find watching women fighting in the ring a sexual turn on - that says more about them than it does about the idea of women fighting.

Seriously, name me one pro sport that pays a woman equal or more prize money than her male conterparts (not netball and the like - but sports with equal participation.
Golf, I think not. Tennis, I think not, Boxing no way........That's Life!!
Rudy is entitled to his opinion and we shouldn't condemn him to hell for all eternity for that - That is what makes this thread interesting. I personally would like to hear more intelligent comments regarding why women shouldn't fight.
I strongly believe that women are just as capable to compete. My biggest point is that when they are in the ring, they are on an equal playing field with their opponnant (same size, weight etc) Just as the men are.
Most of the women I know hate that feminist bulls#*t about not being able to do this and that etc They just want to be the best they can be and if Kickboxing is their thing then great - Let them at it.

I agree with Kara and GG,

Men and Women are far more alike than different. In ring sports, people are matched (most of the time) for ability, weight, experience etc. They wear protection on the body where necessary and compete on a level.

Male or Female it doesn't matter.......to me anyway.

It is unfortunate that Women do not earn the same as men in sport but this is usually down to audience numbers. It doesn't mean they are any better or worse.

JMHO.

FB'Slim

as for womens mma, The smack girl shows in Japan do a very good job
of presenting women MMA fighters in an environment and format that is very
"feminine" and non threatening.

Rudy, check out a smack girl video. or just go to their website. I believe you would actually like it.

I think its www.smackgirl.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------

kara wrote:

"...and as for men who find watching women fighting in the ring a sexual turn on - that says more about them than it does about the idea of women fighting."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kara thats a great point. You can't bother with why someone watches. Its not your problem if they have a fetish, or bizarre motivations, etc. If they buy a ticket and support the sport, I am not terribly exercised by the knowledge some people enjoy sport for strange reasosn-so long as they keep it to themselves or like minded friends.

I dare say some of the men who are threatened by the idea of women fighting may be equally tormented by unwelcome and unresolved sexual feelings/issues that are brought uncomfortably close to the surface by strong women breaking stereotypes.

BTW, two different women fighters with whom i have corresponed at length, confided to me that they are often turned on sexually when they fight-so I guess girls have a right to their little quirks too...i certainly wasn't shocked or horrified. Maybe Just taken aback by the candor. I figure they arent violating anyone's rights.

One thing for sure, Dr. Freud would be quite busy were he alive today...

it's a strange world we live in, and I have decided to take as i find it, and stop trying to make so many judgements -or figure out the etiology of people's idiosyncrasies-they often defy explanation.


dan

I know this is a little off topic, but with regard to the comment that dan made above regarding women becoming sexually aroused during a bout, I would think that was down to the general excitement, adrenalin, crowd adulation etc. However I am certainly no expert in how a womens mind works.

Probably another topic but just my thoughts.

FB'Slim

i've sparred with one of the female fighters at my gym, helping her get ready for a boxing debut. lets just say, they can take care of themselves. and , yea, i do love to see a goot cat fight. *ducks*

I agree that its great when there is enthusiastic discussion where people can explain why they disagree. How boring if we all agreed ALL the time. And there are a lot of people who do genuinely feel awkward with female fights so I think its good to know the reasons behind that. I can understand and sympathise with people who find it hard to watch their loved ones getting knocked about in the ring.

I agree with you Dan, why people watch is irrelevant sometimes. Most fighters are there for themselves, their gym, their trainers and don't need to be distracted by wondering if people are enjoying the fight (I think). Hell, some females get turned on by watching male fights as well - people are people. I've not really heard from many female fighters that they get aroused while fighting, but the physical reaction you get from the adrenaline probably just affects people differently.

Of course lasses should fight! anyone that disagrees is basically.......a twat!


AS for getting turned on....If thats your thing then i've been reliably informed that horse riding will generally hit the spots other sports can't reach. That only applies for the ladies of course ;-)

LOL at JD just can't help it

Yes women should be able to fight, if she so desires..it should be her decision no one elses...and I guess for the right reasons..e.g confidence,discipline,exercise, mental strength, physical strength but should not be allowed to fight men in the ring for competition...
It is funny I watch other women fighting and I say to myself did I use to do that...and feel rather unsure if I like or not...hehehe...
Regards
Lucy Tui

Women are made for loving not fighting
But if they are fighting one another let them carry on im sure that males aint the only ones with a blood lust.

So if any of u women want a fight come to me. p.s im a bloke so go easy :}

Reading this thread is like a flashback to the 70's!! If they have the skill,the fitness and of course the desire of course they should..

One thing though. Trainers should not expect less from the women than they do for the men. I've seen some terrible novice girls and it's obvious it's because the trainer has adopted a 'well she's good enough for a girl' attitude. Wait until they're ready. (as you should with anyone)

Whoa!....

I didnt say lets grab some signs and picket the Whitehouse, Canberra or the Beehive and legislate a ban on female fights, good luck in todays politically correct society anyway, so the point is moot ok?, bottom line females will fight and I accept this BUT If a female in my social sphere asked my opinion about it I would tell her Its a damn tough sport you wanna think twice about it....and you guys already know my reasons why.

Any more opposing views?

Where is Porshe911?

back to women fighting:
colin payne has a brother and a sister from his club who both fight
both are good
but if i were to put my money on anyone it would be the sister!

If women wanna fight, sure let them! i love watching a good womens fight!
And you guys who dont like to see womens bouts? you shud see that female fighter that trevor ambrose brought voer from norway!
Trevor:
Im STILL waiting for that pic of ehr in ehr police uniform!

KB/MT/MMA are all sports so let women take part!

I dont have any problems with women fighting

but i would not pay to see it

Most of the guys who complain of women participating in the sport do so for superficial reasons. It is not, in fact, the quality of the bouts that is the issue, as anyone whose seen female fights would know.

Their reasons against are simple and clear, if not bizarre and ominous:

For them, and many like them, the word woman is equated with sex. Be it sex appeal, motherhood, 'loving', etc, it can all be pigeonholed into that one slot. The 'caring' guise, that women are not made for a brutal sport, is the same culture of repression and morality that saw other human beings as inferior and less than human (i.e. leading to slavery, racism, genocide). To see a woman who is able to access her aggression and channel it into skills that are brutal and effective is, on some unconscious level, a challenge to the submissive roles they believe women are in. It's a societal thing. 'Women are meant for loving' not fighting. But anyone who has seen an two-year-old little girl (raised in a family that does not hit, smack and rarely shouts)angrily lash out and scratch the everliving sh*t out of her sibling knows that aggression and the urge to fight is in us all. Many men don't mind women training, but draw the line at ring competition: Don't get UGly! As if! It's okay for men to get ugly? Fighting, in their minds, means injury and disfigurement to the sexual appeal of a woman. This is valued above and beyond the benefits of fighting: self-esteem, discipline, stress relief, glory, money, etc (the reasons you all fight). The nobler aspects of our human character are subsumed and relegated to lower status under the almighty sex appeal.

To some, women are the last bastions of what should be in our culture. If they are allowed to compete freely and equally in the last bastion of male culture - fighting - this would call into question the very nature of fighting itself. Why do we fight?!?!

The human culture has not always been this way (about women fighting) and will not continue to be so. There is so much historic documentation of not only women in pugilistic sporting, but as leaders, warlords, warriors, etc. But in the recent past, the 'woman's' role has been disallowed the aggressive emotions to the point that some men fetishize a poweful woman (i.e. dominatrixs, women fightters, etc).

This would explain many of the viewpoints of misguided, yet generally benign arguments against women fighting (i.e. "it's okay, i guess, but I wouldn't want my sister/girlfriend/ child etc to do it).

Yet there is a rare, more malevolent contigent of men who see women fighting as a challenge to their dominate role. Women who can fight are not so easy to rape, brutalise, murder. Women who know how to fight are equal! Yikes!


Watch out!

Thank you to the many men who have defended the right of women to fight, those of you who have trained muay thai, and some of the other most brutal sports to women when, 'technically' it has not been legal (in the case of boxing at least), until a handful of years ago. You have no idea how awesome you are or how you have actually, in doing so, changed the shape of the future.

Sorry to bang on, but, being a woman and all, I can't help but speak up on this.

Looking forward to fighting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or more to the point, coming from a woman of great experience in this field:

Angela Parr:

"Well, Women do fight so whom ever does not like it can get over it!"

Right on.

Don't know why I even bothered iterating the above viewpoints when anyone who matters knows the side of right.

and by the way, rudy, women produce testosterone too ;P

I Dont Oppose
i "Agree" get More `Birds` into the Sport
Ladies are Great ! Train harder than the Guys too Mostly !

I think this excellant quote puts into perspective my thoughts:

2004-07-09 18:53:51 ( time)


lala writes:

Most of the guys who complain of women participating in the sport do so for superficial reasons. It is not, in fact, the quality of the bouts that is the issue, as anyone whose seen female fights would know.

Their reasons against are simple and clear, if not bizarre and ominous:

For them, and many like them, the word woman is equated with sex. Be it sex appeal, motherhood, 'loving', etc, it can all be pigeonholed into that one slot. The 'caring' guise, that women are not made for a brutal sport, is the same culture of repression and morality that saw other human beings as inferior and less than human (i.e. leading to slavery, racism, genocide). To see a woman who is able to access her aggression and channel it into skills that are brutal and effective is, on some unconscious level, a challenge to the submissive roles they believe women are in. It's a societal thing. 'Women are meant for loving' not fighting. But anyone who has seen an two-year-old little girl (raised in a family that does not hit, smack and rarely shouts)angrily lash out and scratch the everliving sh*t out of her sibling knows that aggression and the urge to fight is in us all. Many men don't mind women training, but draw the line at ring competition: Don't get UGly! As if! It's okay for men to get ugly? Fighting, in their minds, means injury and disfigurement to the sexual appeal of a woman. This is valued above and beyond the benefits of fighting: self-esteem, discipline, stress relief, glory, money, etc (the reasons you all fight). The nobler aspects of our human character are subsumed and relegated to lower status under the almighty sex appeal.



Look at it this way.

In a pack of Lions, the female does all the killing. However if a lion or lioness or cub from another pack comes into the territory, is it the Male or the female lion that fights them or chases them away. It is the male.

Call me sexist or whatever, but the reason that males fight instincevly, is to protect the females that we are close to.

Some males, like me, would even fight to protect females that we dont even know!!!

SO i dont think women should fight women, it just isnt right in my view!!!

A Mature and Interesting Post Porsche911
You will get slated again in a Mo
so Get your Claws Sharpened and Rough up ya Mane and Roar !
( btw im a Leo too what does that tell me ?? errrr I Like a Few Lioness too LOL )

Would you not like to know that your wife, sister etc could protect themselves? Yes women are not as aggressive as men in general but this only serves to improve the quality of the fights, women fight with their intelligence and not their aggression.
Women also have to prove themselves more in the gym, which means they work harder to improve technique, every time a new member joins our gym they immediately assume that because I am a woman I will not be able to punch, that opinion normally doesnt last long once they've tried to hold the pads for me or one of the other girl fighters we have.
Rach
x

Of course women should not be allowed to fight beyond pulling hair and breaking each other's nails. After all, we are all tame and docile by nature, aren't we, girls? ALL of us.

lol

in my opinion woman fight more technicaly minded than some men ,which makes it good to watch .in the past 2 yrs i have'nt missed a thaiboxing show in scotland, and some of the best fights i have watched has been womens.when i started training i said i would never fight because i thot it was brutal now 3 fights down the line i just cnt wait to do it again

go girl !

personally i would like to encourage as many women as possible to take the sport more seriously and havew a good number of both guys AND girls in my more expereicned classes
i try to do away with the image that girls have that grading or fighting isnt for them.
bollocks it can be and IS for them!
theres no reason why girls cant be as good at this sport as blokes.
e.g. try telling say:
Trix march or lisa howarth that fighting isnt for girls (no thanx!)

i think womens got the same right as men do ,,, if guys are allowed to fight in the ring then women should be allowed to ,,,,,trust me boys there are some women out there that can kick the shit out of every single one of u,,, so dont mess with them

every Single one of ? Wooooooooooooooooooooo !
:-p

Oh !
"100"
Btw
:-))))))))))

oooops Wrong Topic
Doh
:-(

Men are the RIGHTFUL owners of war, and all it's derivatives which have evolved into heavy contact sports today. In the absence of war, the MALE warrior continued to engage each other in contests of skill and strength to promote a state of readiness, eventually they beame celebrated as sports.
But the true nature of these sports remains rooted in war and conflict! impose your will upon your opponent, force sumission or render him/her inert....

Men are the RIGHTFUL owners of war,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most women are intelligent enough to renounce ownership in anything quite that foolish and destructive, and useless.

Read Candide, by Voltaire. Its very short, extremely funny, and right on point.

dan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

FATBOY writes:

I know this is a little off topic, but with regard to the comment that dan made above regarding women becoming sexually aroused during a bout, I would think that was down to the general excitement, adrenalin, crowd adulation etc. However I am certainly no expert in how a womens mind works.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am no expert there either. I was just repeating what two people had told me. (which of course is still no excuse for repeating it) As for your adrenaline hypothesis, I didn't ask them to elaborate-or be any more specific. Maybe it had to do with a rush of power/dominance feelings??

In any case, I do think that is probably a very unusual reaction, for fighters of either sex. Mind you, that was only two female fighters (who were also roomates) out of so many I have talked to through the years about what they get emotionally from fighting. I only remembered because it was so very surprising-and astonishingly frank.

I apologize to all for mentioning that. It was probably in bad taste to even repeat it.

In fairness to women fighters and fans, It's almost exclusively male fans who make fetishes out women's fighting-something that would never occur to most women.

I guess its testosterone run amuck. dangeorus substance, that.

dan

Porsche

Not to be rude, but, stop getting all your info from National Geographic. Generally speaking, male lions DO chase off outsiders, but lionness can and DO fight outsiders as well. As far as doing it to protect their females, I must only say this: the 'protective' males also commit infanticide on all the cubs of the previous dominate male! Also, lionnesses fight each other and members of prides in overlapping territories. Male lions also attack females when prey is killed. How's that for 'protecting'?????


Were I you, and wanting to make an intelligible point, I'd hardly want to make an analogy between HUMANS and an animal that can lick it's own ass....


:)



Why don't you act more like a male lion in protecting females who want to fight from outside intervention!?!?!?

Thanks for such a well articulated argument lala, I think that unfortunately it IS necessary to make it that clear sometimes although it would be nice if the simple post from Angela Parr was enough.

Anyone notice that the 'reasons' why women shouldn't fight are often the same as the reasons why some people think children shouldn't fight? Are we children? Do we need to be protected like children because we don't always know whats best for ourselves? Again that turns females into something weaker, needy and inferior.

And this idea that men fight because of some innate need for war-readiness, well doesn't that just make men who fight so much more noble than women who do! (or men who don't!) But again I don't think this argument holds up as there are very solid examples of cultures where women are warriors as well. Besides, culture is about change, humans aren't animals and don't have to be slaves to their biological drives.

I think this thread has taught me something today, and maybe changed my vies a bit, so thankyou :)

hmm interesting its starting to get a little bit too intellectual for my lking
lets keep ti straight to the point :P

Men want to fight + men Can fight = they Fight

Women want to fight + women can fight (believe it or not) = they fight

simple mathematics really

Ere all morning

oooh, I feel a group hug coming on :)

I do think women should be able to fight. Women are able to fight and fight whatever style they like including MMA and it doesnt make them any less feminine! I'm female and I fight ,not in any tournaments yet but I hope to when I get more experienced. At our dojo we don't have many people and I'm the only girl, what I hate is that sometimes the boys won't even try when their sparring with me, but then they get shocked when I land a punch! that always makes them keep their guard up!
Women can fight if they want and should be given the same rights to fight as men as well as the right to a good spar!

I do think women should be able to fight. Women are able to fight and fight whatever style they like including MMA and it doesnt make them any less feminine! I'm female and I fight ,not in any tournaments yet but I hope to when I get more experienced. At our dojo we don't have many people and I'm the only girl, what I hate is that sometimes the boys won't even try when their sparring with me, but then they get shocked when I land a punch! that always makes them keep their guard up!
Women can fight if they want and should be given the same rights to fight as men as well as the right to a good spar!

I remember when Jane Couch fought in UK's first pro women's boxing bout about 10(?) years ago. Frank Bruno voiced his opinion of being against women being allowed to fight. The base of his argument was, in all sincerity, something like- '...well women have pretty faces so I don't think they should get them messed up.'

I remember being impressed by this because it sounded charmingly old-fashioned, chivalrous, tough and a little romantically endearing. However, since I have developed as a person in terms of logic and experience the masks of social imagery become more transparent everyday. Unfortunately many people never manage to get past that point of having their opinions shaped primarily by charismatic imagery.

I have never heard an anti women fighting argument to better Frank Bruno's one (meaning there is none).

I think when women fight, they fight to well...fight. I think it's cool and especially if they're students of the game. If they're out their training their hearts out then heck yeah...I think women should fight!!!

Well women think that men are nice. Thus it could be argued that some women think that some men have 'pretty faces'. Therefore, they should not be getting them messed up. The same can be applied.

Your only messed up if you not keeping you guard up anyway. lol!!

One of my old trainers (wont say which one) was of the opinion that women shouldnt fight MT. His reasoning was not 'romantic' but was based on certain anatomical differences ie. men keep thier 'tackle' protected by a groin guard, whereas women have comparitively hugely complicated, unprotected 'plumbing' which could be damaged by knees to the abdomin. In fairness, men and women are built differently! Having said this, Ive not heard of any woman being made sterile by fighting MT.

I agree. Men and Women are built differently. However. If it is a case of 'anatomical' differences as to why women should not fight, it could been argue that although women have complicated 'plumbing', which could subsequently be damaged during knees [and ouch that really does hurt btw], but at the same time, it could be argued that if it was so natural for men to fight, then why do they need groin guards if our 'plumbing' is the highly complicated one?

I'd say that women's bodies are far more in porportion then that of the male species!!!

lol Michele.
Youve countered a practical arguament with an emotive one! Very female of you.

lol Michele.
Youve countered a practical arguament with an emotive one! Very female of you.

LOL.....Woops!!! Was not mean to be emotive, I can assure you!!

But. what I am saying, is why is it more 'natural' for men to fight then women, if they have to be protected with groin guards etc?? When it is women that apparently have the more 'complicated' plumbing??

At the end of the day surely its all about freedom to chose?? If a woman wants to fight, who is any one to tell her she shouldnt?????

I think its a case of mens bits being compact enough to protect with a metal cup, whereas females would need some kind of body armour. Its a purely practical consideration. Although (as I said) this consideration is only valid if there is indeed a risk to a womans baby making equipment when fighting MT and guess there is no evidence for this (yet)?


Consider also that knees to the groin were removed from muay thai as a result of too many smashed testicles. If there were instances of females being damaged in a similar way (by knees to the abdomen), what would you suggest as a remedy? Protection? Banning knees? Banning females?

Im curious Michele -

"I'd say that women's bodies are far more in porportion then that of the male species!!!"

can u elaborate?

Hi DanUK
I dont think you believe that. If we were fighting outside of society - like in secret on a mountain somewhere, then maybe it would be just down to personal choice. However, we do live in a developed(?) society. One that takes a responsibility to protect its members. In this situation, there is an equal responsibility for the member not to harm him/herself too. Its society that has to pay to put you back together again if you break yourself. Your 'right' to choose carries the responsibility to use that choice wisely. After all, lets not get carried away here - its just a sport!

Satankid....Our actions are born from our imaginations not our will.
'Imagery' is how you define what is to be your reality, how you PERCIEVE or IMAGINE yourself, others and events dictates your actions in life.
However, since you have 'developed as a person in terms of logic and experience'
your piercing gaze has allowed you to see through such 'charasmatic imagery' as old fashioned chilvary and taking your current philosphy/logic to its ultimate conclusion what other virtues might you have discarded in order to become WHAT?....a back seat cynic?

'Womens bodies are in porportion more then those of the males species'. As I state. We don't have them protected due to the fact that we don't have testicals that can get smashed up (as u suggested).

There is no remedy to prevent this from happening to women {as in the case of knees to the abdominan), apart from the obvious....Avoid the knee. As failure to do so, will result in the obvious. To which in turn is a learning curve in itself.

That is the choice we make. We all make. Male or female. We are all aware of the risks. Yep, the risks and subsequent consequences of these risks are different in their outcome. For exaample, smashed up testicals, or very very bruised private parts for the female. But it's still comes down to the same thing. Everyone [male or female] knows the risk, and thus has the choice to take part or not. It should not be a issue as to weather women should fight or not. We should still be given that choice. Regardless of the consequences.

Has this Topic Benn covered a few Times Btw?
I think on the Whole we Nearly ALL agree Women Should Fight !
And They get better and better as time goes on and More and More Exposure !
All Good !
My Only Point i keep trying to get is that Women should Do 5 x 3
( as 2 or 3 U.K. Fighters Ive already Mentioned Have Done here Already )
But im not too sure about Elbows to the Face though ! :-((( Ladies are far better Looking !!! And Should Stay that way !
If it was Like `5x3` and superleague and say with Elbows to the Body as women ARE allowed to do in the U.K. then i think its a Forward way-to-go !
IMO

You missed the whole point Brian Ritchie!!!

However, I am flattered you picked my comment to first share your two cents...

I just couldn't pass it up!

MUAH!

sid, people can choose to drink and smoke, should that not be allowed? Think how much that costs society!!!

I didn't miss your point. I understood your point. I just pointed out where some of your logic was amiss. I was referring to a "sub-point" of your post. I still understood the message of your post.

Alright Rudy...
It's on.
I hope you are ready for your rightful ownership of this war of words.
I appreciate your participation in this thread.

The other men who are against females fighing are too chickenshit to attempt to articulate their points, so I applaud you, for a moment.

Rudy wrote:
"Reason #1 why chicks shouldnt be encouraged to fight
The Boyz do it better! thats why all the prestiege and money is focused on the chaps. As a spectator you'll get more bang for your buck from watching the fellas go round."

First of all, your use of the word "Chicks" says everything. Your lack of respect for female fighters is not rooted in the points that you have listed here. There is more going on here.

Secondly, if you really followed that logic, you would only watch heavyweight fighters and nobody else. Obviously HUGE STRONG TALL fighters are genetically gifted for fighting. Right? They fight better than the lightweights as they would kick the shit out of ANY lightweight fighter. Right? So lightweight fighters should not fight. Right? It seems as if you are only applying this logic in the case of women.

Rudy wrote :
"Reason #2 why chicks shouldnt be encouraged to fight
Males were designed by nature for combat roles. Thats why we are bigger faster and stronger, mentally more agressive it's called TESTOSTERONE, and in times long ago we needed these attributes to hunt for and defend our familys and homes, females just didnt get cut out for that. Natures design."

Men were DESIGNED for combat roles?
This implies that all men carry this trait of "combat readiness" by design. From birth.

What a bunch of horseshit!

Everyone stand clear of these WARRIORS!!! Watch out! They are men!!! Designed from birth to fight!







They have NOTHING on these women...




Who obviously were NOT designed for fighting so they have no business doing it! (right?)

Rudy, I'm sure I could find women who are bigger, stronger and faster than you. That wouldn't change the fact that women compete against other women. The comparisons between men and women's physical capabilities is a baseless argument because of that reason alone. Women aren't fighting men.

"Reason #3 why chicks shouldnt be encouraged to fight
It just aint chilvarous to stand around and watch our fairer sex smash each other. They are our girlfriends, wives, daughters, they are mothers. It's not manly to applaud their suffering and I wince when I see a stunned girl turn involntarily away from a volley of head shots."

Chivalry? Chivalry is quickly defined as "courtesy toward women". What is so chivalrous about keeping women locked into a role that you see fit for them? Insisting that they live in a way that makes you comfortable?

I was right when I said that you probably imagine your mother or sister fighting when you assess these matches. These women are not simply our "Girlfriends, wives, mothers and daughters". They are individuals first and foremost. EACH WOMAN IS DIFFERENT, just like every person is different. If your mother entered the ring, she would probably suffer. She would probably get KO'd within 10 seconds. Perhaps she shouldn't be a fighter. The shortcomings of your own mother or girlfriend, sister, or daughter shouldn't apply to all women.

Your delusions about being "manly" aside...
You speak of these women as though they are weak victims who do nothing but suffer in the ring. Where does that come from?

If fighting was nothing but suffering then why would anybody do it?
Obviously, fighting involves more than just taking volleys of shots to the head.
These women gain as much from fighting as men do.
They don't only take punishment in the ring.

When I watch women compete against each other, I applaud. However, I am not applauding their suffering. I am applauding their courage. Their will. Their training. For you to sum up their competition as merely "Suffering" shows a lack of respect for what they are doing.

Your comments also imply that women typically respond to punches by being stunned and involuntarily turning away.
That makes me question how many female fights you have seen.

Make no mistake. There is nothing chivalrous about your attitude toward women.

Rudy wrote "I never saw the attraction in female fights, perhaps its value is one of morbid facination."

Rudy...is this why you like watching men fight each other? For morbid fascination? Can you explain why you enjoy watching two men fight each other in the ring? Can your answer not be applied to female fighters?

Maybe there is another reason why you like watching men more than women?

"I'm not saying we should stop the girls from gloving up..."

Bullshit. Say what you really think. If you have any respect for your own thoughts, then tell them honestly.

"but maybe suggest self defence, kick-fit or a kata based martial art."

Why on earth would you suggest self-defense to someone who you think should not (or could not) fight? Stop trying to be nice.

Rudy wrote "If a female in my social sphere asked my opinion about it I would tell her Its a damn tough sport you wanna think twice about it"

So in other words, you would scare them off from fighting.

Rudy wrote "....and you guys already know my reasons why."

Yes. I do know your reasons why. Male insecurity....covered up by ill begotten logic created as a way to rationalize this insecurity. More on this later...

Rudy "Men are the RIGHTFUL owners of war, and all it's derivatives which have evolved into heavy contact sports today."

I'm glad you know your simple history. Men have created many wars. Good job (applause). If you have paid attention to your history lessons, you'd know that women were rarely put in a position to be an owner of war. That is due to social limitations. Women weren't put in a position of power very often. Yet, sometimes they were....and sometimes Queens would be the owners of war.

Rudy "But the true nature of these sports remains rooted in war and conflict! impose your will upon your opponent, force sumission or render him/her inert"

True, martial arts were created for the purposes of war. These combat ring sports are based on martial arts. But let's not get delusional here. Ring sports and War are two TOTALLY DIFFERENT things. People die in war. That is the point of war. They use weapons. Homes and cities are destroyed. Ring sports are a VERY different thing than War. So you can drop that war comparison right now. The war references seem pretty irrelevant to this discussion.

Rudy wrote "Satankid....Our actions are born from our imaginations not our will.
'Imagery' is how you define what is to be your reality, how you PERCIEVE or IMAGINE yourself, others and events dictates your actions in life.
However, since you have 'developed as a person in terms of logic and experience'
your piercing gaze has allowed you to see through such 'charasmatic imagery' as old fashioned chilvary and taking your current philosphy/logic to its ultimate conclusion what other virtues might you have discarded in order to become WHAT?....a back seat cynic?"

First of all, who are you to label someone else as a cynic? A backseat cynic, at that.

Rudy, I wish you would stop playing nice. You have stated a handful of selfish reasons why you don't offer female fighters respect for what they do. There are holes in your explanations of WHY you don't like watching females fight each other. I wish you would get a little more honest about your stance. You later said "I'm not saying we should stop the girls from gloving up". But, if you were in a position to stop them, you certainly would. Perhaps if you were King, women would be banned from the ring? Is that right Rudy? Be honest.

My assessment of Rudy: I think a woman competing in a combat sport challenges your ideals of masculinity that you have defined for yourself. It is apparent that the cornerstone of your argument lies in defining strict roles for men and women. Perhaps your entire platform for self esteem was built upon these ideals of what a man should be and what a woman should be. If women compete in a "man's world" then where does that leave you and your ideals?

Furthermore, perhaps your attraction to women is fed by your idea that they are the "fairer sex"....i,e, weak. Some men are attracted to weakness. Maybe that is how you learned to appreciate women as you grew to an adult. You saw them as "gentle, kind, caring creatures" and nothing more. Perhaps as female fighters are applauded for being aggressive, this brings concern within you that women will lose start to lose one of their qualities that you consider a virtue. People do not have to be weak to be kind, caring and gentle. A woman can certainly be attractive without being weak.

I think you should step outside of your gender role for a second and appreciate the effort and the art that these women are displaying in the ring. I think you should WATCH SOME FEMALE FIGHTS for once. Based upon your comments earlier, I suspect that you haven't seen very many.

When you watch the fights, stop thinking about YOUR MOTHER! She is NOT YOUR MOTHER! Nobody is beating up YOUR MOTHER or your SISTER or your GIRLFRIEND!

Stop projecting!

Kara wrote "Anyone notice that the 'reasons' why women shouldn't fight are often the same as the reasons why some people think children shouldn't fight? Are we children? Do we need to be protected like children because we don't always know whats best for ourselves? Again that turns females into something weaker, needy and inferior."

Exactly.

You're in school, Rudy.
I hope you are taking notes.

....throws towel in to save Rudy from further punishment! :)

Porsche911...
it's too bad that lala responded to your post about lions before I got to it.

In nature, there are instances of the female being the domainant figure than the male.

Lemurs


Hyenas


But what in the hell does this have to do with humans?
Nothing.

I'm shocked this is even a being discussed. There is no question that women should be allowed to compete in kickboxing/Thai Boxing if they want. What right does anyone have to tell them they can't or shouldn't?

This is as rediculous as those men's only golf clubs and shit like that. Rediculous!

And whether the fights are of a better calibre or not is really not the point but in recent times, the best fights I've seen are chick fights! Some of the worst I've seen are also chick fights but whatever. Guys are just as likely to put on a bad performance.

Anyway, girls have just as much right to enjoy the sport as men. You will never convince me otherwise.

WOW BRIAN!!!

That was such a fierce, passionate and insightful rebuttal. It really shook me to the foundations of my beliefs system! Dave Jackson has made a suggestion which I think I should humbly accept and thus I bid you adieu and I go now quietly into the night...

...definitely don't wanna f*ck with the site owner. I'm staying out of this one for the remainder of the thread.

...definitely don't wanna f*ck with the site owner. I'm staying out of this one for the remainder of the thread.

USA fighter, me being the site owner is irrelevant to this discussion.

Rudy, very disappointing. Go hide in your shell. Come back out when your mind is more open.

Next?

....However before I retreat, if you would indulge me for a moment longer.....

I have not read this whole thread yet, but near the top someone made a point regarding female fights often displaying more skill and receiving standing ovations. I have seen both ends of the spectrum....

There are some female fights that I have seen which outright SUCK! Barely any skill to speak of, just a bunch of sloppy kicks and haymakers.

But on the other hand, there are those female fights where the girls display a much higher level of skill and tenacity than their male counterparts. A perfect example of this is a fighter who has been discussed on this board a number of times already, Nicole Hess. I have a video tape of one of her last fights. She is an INCREDIBLE fighter!!!! She fights with skill and with heart! She is NON-STOP! Perhaps I could get a few clips of her fighting transferred to MPEG for someone to post here on AX?

I wrote:

"Reason #1 why chicks shouldnt be encouraged to fight
The Boyz do it better! thats why As a spectator you'll get more bang for your buck from watching the fellas go round."
------------

To which you replied:

"First of all, your use of the word "Chicks" says everything. Your lack of respect for female fighters is not rooted in the points that you have listed here. There is more going on here."
-------------

Perhaps it would've been wiser to use the word 'female' ( I dunno! what is the politically correct term? ) instead of 'chicks', but note that I also referred to the males as 'Boyz' 'chaps' and 'fellas'! would you then deduce a lack of respect on my behalf for male fighters also?.......No?...Yes?......not sure now?......um?...


You implied the existence of a sinister motive behind the use of the word 'chicks' but you failed to elaborate, why?......because there's nothing there, just YOU chasing shadows, nothing to see here folks...move along....
what does P-E-D-A-N-T-I-C mean Brian?

Now stay with me brother.....the rest of reason #1 goes "all the prestiege and money is focused on the chaps" which none of you can dispute, because the alternative is that institutions such as K1, Lumpinee championships, UFC, IBF,WBA,WBC etc etc have got it wrong for decades and squandered millions upon millions of dollars on the wrong gender!!!

Look the gist of reason #1 seems lost on you, so look at it like this, of the TWO SEXES, the MALE is better suited to COMBAT.
Thats it put simply.

Kinda makes your whole reason #1 rebuttal arbitrary.

Of course you can post more pics of guys at the shallow end of the gene pool versus females who obviously work out hard and flog that off as a fair and reasonable arguement, but consider this scenario-
a man and a woman, same age, same height, weight and fight experience.
Who wins?............whats that?..........the man? The point is, it is the male of our species that is better equipped to express the fighting arts to its fullest potential and thats why you get more bang for your buck by watching the fellas go round.

But wait theres more........

Rudy, no offence mate but your full of crap how can you compare sport to war, the object of sport is a skilled contest between two evenly matched fighters (in theory) war is about killing people its not sport. Your coming across as a totally macho tosser the warriors creed and all that spare me it! It must be an amercian thing anyway plently of women have been involved in wars and murdering people. Women spies in the SOE in world war 2, women in KGB, etc etc. In a war I wouldn't don a pair of boxing gloves and start squaring up to people thats fair wars about making the enemy die for his country theres no way of the warrior bullshit its about surviving by any means necessary.

As a bloke whos has a lot of friends and relatives in the forces and has had a bit of experience himself I don't know who you can compare sports to war? If I'm wrong someone correct me. You try lying in a OP in some soaking wet field for hours bored if its an exercise, shitting yourself if its for real and see if you still believe this warriors creed bullshit! You've been playing Metal Gear Solid too much have't you do you think your Snake!

I know theres a lot of ex and current UK forces guys get on this forum and I guess they will be pissing themselves laughing at your gung ho rubbish. There's nothing glamorous or fair about war. My granda fought in world war 2 all the way from dunkirk to D Day him and his brother had to swim out to a boat to escape. He then spent most of the war till D Day manning ack ack guns in London while the luftwaffe were trying to bomb the place to the ground (no air raid shelters for them lads). His other brother Jack fought in Italy at Monte Cassino where the german fallscrimjager some of the meanest hardest german forces in the war fought their hearts out trying to kill him.

Yet both these men never used to talk about the war much prob cause they didn't like talking about it when they had seen what real war was like.

Anyway to summarise your talking shite if women want to fight let them. Sport is not war thicko if you want war join the army.

Anyway thats my rant for the day not that my opinion is worth a monkeys backside and for a bit of a laugh here are Murphys laws of combat

Murphys Laws Of Combat

If the enemy is in range, so are you.

Incoming fire has the right of way.

Don't look conspicuous, it draws fire.

There is always a way.

The easy way is always mined.

Try to look unimportant, they may be low on ammo.

Professionals are predictable, it's the amateurs that are dangerous.

The enemy invariably attacks on two occasions: a. When you're ready for them.
b. When you're not ready for them.

Teamwork is essential, it gives them someone else to shoot at.

If you can't remember, the claymore is pointed at you.

The enemy diversion you have been ignoring will be the main attack.

A "sucking chest wound" is natures way of telling you to slow down.

If your attack is going well, you have walked into an ambush.

Never draw fire, it irritates everyone around you.

Anything you do can get you shot, including nothing.

Make it tough enough for the enemy to get in and you won't be able to get out.

Never share a foxhole with anyone braver than yourself.

If you are short of everything but the enemy, you are in a combat zone.

When you have secured an area, don't forget to tell the enemy.

Never forget that your weapon is made by the lowest bidder.

lol lol lol!!!! Good thread! :)

Dan UK. You are right. Cigarettes and alcohol carry a tax premium to reimburse society for the damage inflicted. But I wouldnt want to push the analogy any further. Suffice to say that whenever there is a 'right', then it carries an attendant responsibility. My observation regarding the comparitive vulnarability of the female torso stands. There may in fact be no increased risk - but we would need case studies and statistics to know.

I think the reason female fighters can appear to have more technique (esp novice) is that trainers hold them back until they are really ready. It definately hurts more to see your female fighters get hurt than your male ones. This is undoubtably sexist.

Sandy, how can you say no elbows for women, because they are prettier?!? Whats that all about? Surely they fight or they dont. MT is elbows and 5 x 3 or its not MT. Should women be 'allowed' to fight MT Sandy?

Ask everyone else?
and
back to the Main Question ?
Should they Fight?


i say it "100" Times er Posts
YES ! `100`
:-))))))))))))))))

'My observation regarding the comparitive vulnarability of the female torso stands. There may in fact be no increased risk - but we would need case studies and statistics to know.'... Actually when jane Couch won her landmark case against the British Boxing Board of control this was put forward as an argument against her, and it was shot down by her legal/medical team. The fact is women do not produce the power of the men so the relative dangers are about the same, like for like. Fighting in a 'full contact' combat sport is dangerous, full stop. We will never get away from that, we just must minimalize the risk through correct medical procedure.

I have to agree a litle bit with... 'I think the reason female fighters can appear to have more technique (esp novice) is that trainers hold them back until they are really ready. It definately hurts more to see your female fighters get hurt than your male ones. This is undoubtably sexist.' It is sexist maybe, but I must admit when I put my girls in for fights I do feel far more pressure than the guys, because I don't want to see them hurt. Sexist? sure but a normal human reaction.

I wouldn't agree 100% that trainers hold them back until they are 'really ready', as I've seen some that truly should not be in a ring.

That's what I'm talkin about Rudy :)

Feed my argument.

More, please.

Brian

Thank you for spending your time tackling Rudy's arguments. I wanted to do this myself, but unfortunately, it's pearls to swine... :)

Thankx anyways. :)

Tracy

I dont think there is any risk of internal damage to a womans reproductive system from taking a blow to the stomach, infact its not that an I think, I know this is not the case, it would have to be of the impact of say a car crash to have a lasting effect.
Rudy the reason women's sports are not as well paid etc is becasue they are still trying to catch up, and it takes time to get over the years of repression in the same way that womens pay is still not equal to mens etc, we will get there but things dont change overnight, this however does not mean that any female athelete or fighter is any less skilled than any male
rach
x

Baz Faulty wrote:
'Rudy, no offence mate but your full of crap how can you compare sport to war...'

Brian wrote:
'But let's not get delusional here. Ring sports and War are two TOTALLY
DIFFERENT things...'

Definition of WAR a. An active and open struggle between competing entities.

The word itself conjures up the familiar images of armed conflict, and that is where you, Baz and Brian, get stuck.
The bout itself can be seen as a microcosm of full scale war.
Objectives and tactics are the same for both. Hence my earlier statement:

'But the true nature of these sports remains rooted in war and conflict! impose your will upon your opponent, force sumission or render him/her inert'

When we climb into the ring we are going to WAR! A conflict resolved by force!
What other state of mind is suffice in the preparation and participation of a fight?
Vince Lombardi: '...man's finest hour, his greatest fulfillment of all he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.'
Vince Lombardi is talking about a FOOTBALL game! His methods and strategies are studied by coaches and trainers from all sorts of diciplines to this day.
War is not just fought on battle fields, its also fought between minds, this discussion right here is a war of ideas and words where you yourself Brian, RAGE MIGHTILY within the confines of this ARENA.
In your ONE fight Brian what state of mind did you adopt? one of a man making a cup of coffee?

...as for SatanKid, he took a swing and I countered...whats it got to do with you?

[Removed by Moderation - Moderation@Axkickboxing.com]

[Please stick to the topic]

"I dont think there is any risk of internal damage to a womans reproductive system from taking a blow to the stomach, infact its not that an I think, I know this is not the case, it would have to be of the impact of say a car crash to have a lasting effect." how do you 'know' this rach?

Hi Col, I dont think a punch from a gloved fist carries as much penetration as a knee. The boxing finding does not carry weight.

Personaly, Im for women fighting barefisted with headbuts included.

lol @ the Last Line !
Is That For Married Women Only?
:-p

Brian, that sinking feeling is just your resolve crumbling........

Brian, i just wanted to congratulate and thank you for your extremely articulate ANNIHILATION of Rudy's ignorant and sexist views on female's fighting. You addressed his comments much better than i could have, so i'll just put in my little piece.
RUDY- addressing your points #1 and #2.....I train my ass off and i'm faster, stronger(proportionally) and technically better than every single guy at my gym, barring perhaps 2. So if i'm better than them, why would people prefer to watch them than me? How would they get more "bang for their buck" watching 2 big fat guys lazily throwing 1 shot every couple of seconds, than watching a full on, technical, fast and powerful female fight?
Perhaps you'd like to come and train with me and the other girl fighters at my gym? And then we could see if you are "faster, stronger and mentally more aggressive", simply because you're a male?
As for your third comment, i'm simply not going to dignify it with a response.

---------
"Reason #1 why chicks shouldnt be encouraged to fight
The Boyz do it better! thats why As a spectator you'll get more bang for your buck from watching the fellas go round."


"the gist of reason #1 seems lost on you, so look at it like this, of the TWO SEXES, the MALE is better suited to COMBAT."
---------

No...I got it. I understood what you said. Not only that, I also responded to it. NAY...I even APPLIED your same logic to a different scenario! (I 1-upped you!). Heavyweight fighters are more suited to COMBAT than lightweight fighters (men). So there is really no reason for light weight (male) fighters to compete.

Take a second and respond to that one as opposed to passing it by. You don't seem to be applying your theory across the board on both genders. It seems to only apply toward female fighters. I wonder why the bias. Why is such a double standard used in your example? Why aren't you suggesting that lighter weight male fighters should not compete? The heavyweights would SMOKE em! More bang for the buck, right? Your story does not add up, Rudy.

Or maybe...just maybe...fighters compete against people in their own gender, their own weight, AND their own experience level and so it doesn't matter that a heavyweight male fighter could kick the shit out of everybody in the ring. They all still deserve to be there competing and demonstrating their skill.

-------
Perhaps it would've been wiser to use the word 'female' ( I dunno! what is the politically correct term? ) instead of 'chicks',
-------

Well, you certainly spent a lot of time responding to that one point when it wasn't even the meat of my argument.
But I'll explain it to you anyway...get out your #2 pencil.

"Chicks" has more of a negative connotation than bloke, boyz, chaps, fellas. It is fitting that you use that term multiple times when referring to women becuase you obviously don't have much respect for them. (Chivalry? my ass!). Many women become offended at the use of that word. Sometimes it is used in a humorous or lighthearted way and then it becomes acceptable, depending upon the woman you are talking to/about. But the context of your speech denotes a more serious tone. You weren't being humorous, nor lighthearted.

Political Correctness? I am not politically correct. Political correctness has to do with saying things in a way not to offend anybody, even if you don't respect them anyway. It's political...it's fake. It is used to avoid confrontation. That is not what I am suggesting. I am actually suggesting that you practice real, honest consideration when using your words. The word is R E S P E C T. (I spelled it out in big letters just for you, Rudy. You're welcome.)

I noticed that you like to throw around the term "Political correctness" a lot. That seems to hit a nerve with you. Don't get confused about it. I'm not talking about political correctness.

------
consider this scenario-
a man and a woman, same age, same height, weight and fight experience.
------

Why the same weight? And why the same age? Why not just young, heavyweight fighters. HUGE guys...260 lbs and up. The lightweight fighters are not genetically gifted enough to deserve to compete. The older guys are too old! It's all about genetics and youth! Aggression! Strength!

The point I was making above is that the gene pool varies among men and women. In fact, it overlaps. Here is the truth, Rudy. I want you to take a deep breathe before swallowing this bit of truth, because I know it's gonna hurt your male pride.

There are SOME women who can slaughter men in the ring at the same age, height, weight.

Rudy, are you okay? You didn't choke on that fact, did you? Just breath man...breath. The pain will pass! Drink some water.
Is your male ego ok? QUICK SOMEBODY GET THIS MAN SOME TESTOSTERONE!!! He's losing his masculinity as we speak! Hurry!!!

* chuckle *

(Rudy's crackling voice can be heard through the background noise...)
"N Nn..No! Women are w.w...w..weaker! They are weaker! It can't be tr..true! All women are ...w...weak!"

You continuously make comparisons of men fighting women and THAT is the bulk of your argument.
It does not add up, Rudy. We're not talking about men fighting women. Only YOU and Porsche911 are talking about men fighting women.
I think that tells a lot.

------
"the male of our species that is better equipped to express the fighting arts to its fullest potential"
------

Ok, More truth coming Rudy....open wide!

It has been uttered many times on this thread. Many believe that women demonstrate really good technique in the ring, sometimes better than the men. As you pointed out, women on the average are less muscularly strong than men on the average, though the disparity is not as great as you make it out to be. Therefore, it would seem that THEY have the opportunity to demonstrate the effectiveness of good technique in the ring...since THEY are less likely to rely upon strength to perform their moves. Just like those 119 lbs Thais have better technique than the heavyweights. The 119lbs Thai offers a better representation of the art. Most people would agree with that.

-----
Definition of WAR a. An active and open struggle between competing entities.
-----

Rudy...
that is a convenient definition of War.

I'll state a more popular one...AND I'll give a reference to where I got it from.

"War - A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties."

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=war

Like many English words, there are different ways to apply a word. Those definitions come from the use of metaphors. Those metaphors transitioned into new definitions tacked onto the word. BUT the most common definition by FAR for the word "WAR" is the one talking about battles, as in World War, French Indian War, Civil War, etc...with weapons. In fact, I think that is the definition that you are using in your posts. You are comparing ringsports to battles on a battlefield...wars between countries...where people die and cities collapse. Ring fighting is nothing like this.

If it were, then that same theory would hold true that I mentioned above. Only the heavyweight men would be suited for war and so they would fight and the rest of the men would sit at home and bake them cookies, I suppose.

-------
Vince Lombardi: '...man's finest hour, his greatest fulfillment of all he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.'
Vince Lombardi is talking about a FOOTBALL game! His methods and strategies are studied by coaches and trainers from all sorts of diciplines to this day.
-------

He is using war as a metaphor. He makes three comparisons between War and Football. 1) Great achievement 2)hard work, and 3) lying exhausted afterawrd. The same can be said about many things, but those things share few attributes of War. The point of war is to kill mass amounts of people and establish control of another country or city. I think the comparisons between ringfighting and war are a little "off".

-------
In your ONE fight Brian what state of mind did you adopt? one of a man making a cup of coffee?
-------

How did I feel in my fight? I felt sick...because, I was sick. Therefore, I was calm. The dude RAGED and tried to kick my ass, but he didn't. I was calm and I defended against his attack. He outweighed me and was much stronger than me. In my mind, it wasn't a true competition because I was sick during the fight. I shouldn't have competed, but I was stubborn. I said I was gonna fight and so I did. Yet, I did not get my ass kicked by a much stronger and much more aggressive opponent. I defended well. You probably would've called him a warrior, even though he wasn't performing that well. But he had muscles and he was aggressive.

I guess you wanted me to say "I wanted to kill him!! Just like war!!! It was a battle!!!"

More coming...

"Brian, that sinking feeling is just your resolve crumbling........"

Rudy...Express more of how you feel about women fighting.
How does it make you feel to see an aggressive woman taking your spot on the ring?

C'mon man...let it out.
It's ok. Nobody can see you cry now.
It's just the internet.
You're still a man.
She can't take that away from you.
Keep that chin up, "soldier".

Rudy, nobody is beating up your mother.
Let it go, man.

"
That was such a fierce, passionate and insightful rebuttal. It really shook me to the foundations of my beliefs system!"

Bah! You probably didn't even read it all. You responded to two things that I said. I responded to EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR POINTS. I even went deeper into the "Chicks" comment, per your request.

I'm going to reiterate this, for fun.

----------

Rudy, I'm sure I could find women who are bigger, stronger and faster than you. That wouldn't change the fact that women compete against other women. The comparisons between men and women's physical capabilities is a baseless argument because of that reason alone. Women aren't fighting men.

----------

Rudy- I was talking in general, not to you. But There's not much I can add to what Brian said. I guess I do view Frank Bruno's unthoughtful comments cynically.

Now, how does an errant Knight such as yourself regard your views as being uncynical towards females? When you valiantly rescue the damsels in distress from the ring do they crumble under your manly valour on the back of your white steed or do they wait until you get them back to Camelot?

Oh, that is funny.
That cleverly encapsulates his confused ideas of gender roles.

That is what I meant when I said "who are you to label someone else as a cynic?"

Chivalry, indeed.

Rudy. I am sorry that you seem to be outnumbered on this thread. That gives you a lot of points to reply to. I had hoped there would be more fools...I mean people...with your stance participating on this thread. That way I could demolish all of your male egos all in one swing. I can't make those other silent, stupid men speak up. Perhaps you could recruit some of your fellow warriors.

Its nice to know that some people are open-minded enough to accept when they may have been wrong and then change their views (Porsche911). For someone who is still a teenager, that shows maturity. Flexibility isn't about failure and weakness, its about being strong enough to grow up.

People don't have to be stereotypes - strong, aggressive female fighters can be (and usually are like any other normal humans) loving, kind, gentle in aspects of their lives. A big strong tough guy can admit to being wrong, can cry at personal tragedy, can bake cakes without his penis fall off.

Life isn't the movies. All conflict isn't war. All problems aren't resolved in 2 hours or less. People are complicated mixtures of lots of different things. Gender roles do (thank god) overlap. Women aren't confined to playing either the sweet virgin or the hooker with a heart of gold or the harlot roles in life. We're pretty complicated (like all humans). Some of us like to fight. So we do. And although it would be nice if all men were evolved and intelligent - they're not.

"A big strong tough guy can admit to being wrong, can cry at personal tragedy, can bake cakes without his penis fall off."


hahahhaahhahahahahahahahhahaha

You're so funny! :)

Well said Kara.

I was happy to see Porsche911 reconsider his viewpoints! Well done! It was brave to admit that on a public forum. Hopefully this thread was able to change at least one person's views.

My Master Once Said and it was far a Bigger Statement than i Realised as i grew up ! He was Reffering to Someone with a Lot of Either Negativity or a person Hellbent NOT on change etc: he said-

"We Was All Born with our OWN Brains"


Thats all he said as he Smiled and said it !"
It took me a long while to Work it out ! But the Simplicity of it Describes so Much in us all, Just some of us have More than Others

It seems that I may wrong.

This is going to take more of my time than I initially thought!

Go Rudy. Nobody ever did anything worthwhile for which they were not criticised ;-)

Ask me about it Lol

As a polemic discussion goes, it has forced me forced to evaluate the reasons why women should fight.

I now believe women should NOT fight.

Not for reasons espoused above but because it is very time intensive training any fighters, let alone a group that is demonstratively a very small minority within any gym, that promotes fighters. Women fighters have and always will be a small minority, thus serious consideration should be given to actively discouraging their participation.

Like in any well-run business, ‘slow’ moving product lines are discarded or removed from the shelves, the same for items that ‘cost’ more to stock at the expense other ‘profitable’ lines

This would leave trainers more time to concentrate on more viable resources.. ie Men.

hahah LOL
I had a Chat on the Phone With a Fellow AXer Earlier this Evening ! PLEASE read this and see ?

Axer Said
"Certain / Some Topics i dont Bother with"!
Sandy
Of Course, me too, all of us etc: Which in Particular???
Axer said
`2` Mainly @ the Mo:
the Off Topic FREE and The "Thaiboxong" One !
I Said,
well its like the
" Do you Think Women should fight" ?

This Topic ! If 95% just said as i put up above
ONE word
"YES"
and another 8 said.........
" Yep
ok
Good Idea
I think so
Oh yes
Why not
Always
Yes Indeed "
this would have Died @ Post 10 ish !!!!!!!!

But It needed 1 or 2 or 3 ? People to say !
"B*LLOCKS NO"
No Way
Women in the Bedromm / Kitchen etc:

And
`Pow` it hits "125" Hits !
and on and on............!

So maybe we need to have Opposition! and maybe ?
The Opposing just wanna have a Clash ?
( i know a couple of Axers who Just do the Same When i post !

( "We all have our OWN Brains" )
:-p
LoL
True !

And to Throw a Spanner in the Works !
Brian Please can i ask you ?
Is there More to you Than meets the Eye??
As you Adopt a Very Strong Stance in this Subject !! Can I ask Why ?
Im Being Serious and a serious Answer Please !?
Brian Writes-
Rudy. I am sorry that you seem to be outnumbered on this thread. That gives you a lot of points to reply to. I had hoped there would be more fools...I mean people...with your stance participating on this thread. That way I could demolish all of your male egos all in one swing.
(BRIAN, This Bit esp:)
I can't make those other silent, stupid men speak up. Perhaps you could recruit some of your fellow warriors.( And This Bit too )

If I was not familiar with AX or you ? Id Swear this was a Females Response !

Brian Its a Bit strong for a BLOKE !
I Understand your Points and defences ! But your a Bloke Not a Lady !
Can i ask why you have Such Strong Claimlike Claims to Blow these "MALE-Egos" and `Fellow Warriors` off here???




(And Im Sure all will Know on here and Those in the U.K. will Know How Much i Push Females in Our Sport ! Im ALL for It !)

So im as i said being deadly Serious !

Brian wrote: "Rudy, very disappointing. Go hide in your shell. Come back out when your mind is more open. Next?"

I laughed as I pictured Brian perched victoriously at his keyboard, gleefully dispatching ANOTHER foe!.........I'm glad you swallowed my feigned resignation hook, line and sinker BECAUSE it led to an insight on your character.

You see Brian, MOST people are GRACIOUS as winners, but when you THOUGHT I had relented, instead of acknowledging your fallen opponent, you seized the oppotunity to condecend. (see quote above)
I have yet to witness a TRUE hearted fighter, male or female, have his/her hand raised in victory and THEN turn to their opponent and say "Go hide in your shell! NEXT!"

Brian what does V-I-N-D-I-C-T-I-V-E mean?

It brought to the forefront a nagging suspiscion I had of you during the course of this thread. I bring to your attention some of your previous remarks:

"If your mother entered the ring, she would probably suffer. She would probably get KO'd within 10 seconds.

"Rudy, nobody is beating up your mother."

Geez Brian! by cunningly inserting the image of my mother getting beat up, what did you hope to accomplish? Did you think it would IRK me somehow? HURT me somehow? that kind of tactic is reserved for people of S-M-A-L-L character.
Shake it off Brian.........it's only the first round buddy.

Brian wrote:

"Maybe there is another reason why you like watching men more than women?"

In Brians RAGE he casts about for another BARBEQUE SPEAR to hurl. Now he QUESTIONS my SEXUALITY!!! huh!................... S-M-A-L-L.

Brian given the ferocity with which you seem hell bent on DENYING your right to celebrate your masculinity....... I question YOURS. I'm BUGGERED if I know JUST WHAT THE HELL kind of gender role you have defined for yourself?????

Picture Brian and his wife asleep one night, when...............CRASH! a window is smashed.

Mrs Brian, "Honey, what was that?"

Brian, "Sounds like a burglar honey"

Mrs Brian "Well do something, go downstairs!"

Brian "What? woman are you crazy! Fuck CHILVARY and ALL that whole protective male CRAP! YOU GO!"

Mrs Brian "OK"

Brian "Honey while your down there, bring back some COOKIIIEES!...."

Brian writes:

"Rudy. I am sorry that you seem to be outnumbered on this thread."

SAFETY in NUMBERS AY Brian? If you take solace in the fact that I appear to be surrounded and outgunned, you're even WEAKER than I thought.

Now Brian dont squirm so much!.......listen, just as you gave your assessment of me! I'll return the favour.........................but right now I gotta go to work...................

Rudy....Please assess me.
I'll respond to your other comments soon enough.


Chiang wrote
"Like in any well-run business, ‘slow’ moving product lines are discarded or removed from the shelves, the same for items that ‘cost’ more to stock at the expense other ‘profitable’ lines

This would leave trainers more time to concentrate on more viable resources.. ie Men."

I've heard your arguments before on female fighting, Chiang. In Ax chat, you've complained about the announcement of the Ax Female fighters forum saying that it takes away resources that should be spent on the men. You saying that "men" as "more viable resources" paints a pretty clear picture.

Since you brought up the idea of thinking in terms of business, you must understand the concept of investment. Businesses develop new product lines all of the time. The world changes around the business and the business adapts to it. Kristy Martin fought on the undercard of a Mike Tyson fight nearly 10 years ago. Since then, there has been growing support of females fight competition by fight fans. Women wrestlers are being added to the Olympic games now. The world is changing Chaing (for the better). Opportunities are starting to open for women. Women are a small minorty now, but that could easily grow if given the right support. Women represent 53% of the population of the earth. They simply deserve the opportunity to grow into the fight world.

The biggest reason why women are a small minority in gyms is due to lack of support. This lack of support stems from people with the same mentality that you have (Chaing). You don't want to consider them as a viable investment. I'm sure there are lots of women who have joined fight gyms only to be virtually ignored by the trainer because he thinks it is a waste of time. It's like a chicken or the egg concept. They are a minority in the gym and ring BECAUSE they are not supported. They shouldn't be denied support BECAUSE they are a minority in the gym and ring.

Bloody hell look at this thread.. already 128 posts, maybe women shouldnt fight if everyones going to get so sensitive about it!

Most ppl support female fighters, rudy is in the minority so get over it!

Brian wrote

"Brian Please can i ask you? Is there More to you Than meets the Eye??"

Yes. Always.

"Brian Its a Bit strong for a BLOKE !
I Understand your Points and defences ! But your a Bloke Not a Lady !
Can i ask why you have Such Strong Claimlike Claims to Blow these "MALE-Egos" and `Fellow Warriors` off here???"

Because Men are often too fucking stupid to break out of the bounds of their societal influences. It embarasses me to be associated with other men...to be places in that grouping. As I get old and I see more examples of stupid men, my cynacism just gets worse. They are supposedly the ones running the world, yet so many of them are nothing but programmed sheep...programmed by society on how to be a "man". Yet, they do not acknowledge this influence. I know there are some men in the world who think for themselves and don't have this "gender identity" problem that Rudy and you (Sandy) seem to have. You have really fucked up associations with what a man is and what a woman is. Just like your ridiculously closed minded comments about women with short hair looking like a "man". It's utterly asinine that you don't think about where you learned those associations, such as long hair = femanine. Or with the example of my comments where you said I sound like a female simply because I'm complaining about mistreatment of women.

Furthermore, I observe society and I see so many ways in which women have to deal with many barriers (attitudes like Chiang and Rudy have) and they do not get credit for the shit they have to put up with. From the day they are born, women are not given as much respect as men.

This isn't a Man vs Woman issue. This is a Society vs women issue. Many Women support these inequalities too! They marry the dipshit abusive alcoholic husband. They go home with the "playa" from the bar. They take abuse from their bosses and rationalize it. They do this simply because they do not know any better. It's how they were raised in this society. It's a vicuous cycle.

Man, I could go on and on and on about this topic. These are things that I've observed since I was a teenager.

I have absolutely no problem with being the exceptional example. I don't give a shit how many men (or women) I piss off with these comments. I'd rather die than shutup about it.

You need to check yourself. Realize where you learned how to be a "man".

Sandy! YOU ARE A GODAMN GENIUS!

Listen up! AXERS 'Brian' writes from a distinctly FEMALES point of view!

Starting right at the top

"Alright, you BASTARDS. I'm taking my gloves off for this debate"

When was the last time you heard a bloke call another bloke a 'BASTARD'!!!!

Follow ALL of 'Brians' posts from there and then tell me weather they were written from a male or females perspective!!I should've KNOWN!!!!!
I've been arguing with a RAGING FEMINIST!!!!

Helen LU and Dave Jackson! Brian's moderators!! have you all been posting as BRIAN!!!
It would explain why Brian could post half a NOVEL to my 2 paragraphs.
Brian either your schizophrenic or you've been conning us all this time.
Theres NO WAY a man could be so passionate as you are about this subject. Even one who whole heartedly supports female fighters!

Because Men are often too fucking stupid!!!!!!!!!Brian just wrote THAT!!!

Rudy, Before I respond to your latest flurry of words, I want to point out that you are now attacking my character. You have NOT approached the points that I've brought up.

Rudy wrote "Geez Brian! by cunningly inserting the image of my mother getting beat up, what did you hope to accomplish?"

I was referring to your comment here...

"They are our girlfriends, wives, daughters, they are mothers. It's not manly to applaud their suffering"

Apparently, you have images of your mother, sister, girlfriend, wife or daughter in your mind when you are watching two females fight in the ring. I'm pointing out the differences between female fighters and your mother. I'm point out how absurd those associations are. Not all women are like you mother. Nobody is beating up your mother, your sister, or your wife, Rudy. You can let it go.

"SAFETY in NUMBERS AY Brian?"
I don't seem to be in need of any backup. You can't even keep up with my arguments. Now Chiang has added in his old fashioned and outdated viewpoints to help balance the arguments out. Now I feel better.

I truly wish that other men would speak up. Show yourselves, cowards. I know you're out there.

"Maybe there is another reason why you like watching men more than women?"
I'm most certainly poking fun at your ideas of masculinity, manliness and other such nonsense. It's humorously ironic because it sounds like something you would say to someone else. :)

Um...My points, Rudy.
Get to them.

"It would explain why Brian could post half a NOVEL to my 2 paragraphs."

I've been working with computers since I was 13. I type fast.

"Theres NO WAY a man could be so passionate as you are about this subject."

Like I said...I am the exception and I'm proud of that.

Rudy writes:
"Because Men are often too fucking stupid!!!!!!!!!Brian just wrote THAT!!!"

Yes I did.

Brian

YOU AINT NO MAN! WHO ARE YOU?

"Follow ALL of 'Brians' posts from there and then tell me weather they were written from a male or females perspective!!"

Actually, they are all written from my own perspective. I know you want to classify everything as either male or female, but it just doesn't work like that. I see really fucked up things and I'm speaking up about it.

I feel that I'm making up for all of the other men who feel the same way about this as I do but don't say anything.

It explains, your inclination to illustrate your views with PICTURES, and tricky FONTS a very decrative and female trait

so HELEN! you get to EXPOUND and ELABORATE and wax philisophical while DAVE JACKSON is the WHAT? comic relief!
Read this post through AXERS! there are 2 styles of writing here!

lol ! It takes Time ! Im Not a Genius ! Nor Ever will Be ! Be i can Identify ! When i see one ! :-p or one that might think they are ! :-p

Brian Writes Some Good Stuff ! And I have to say Ive Learned a few Relevent and thought Provoking "Life Points" from him ! ( We can All learn and never stop ! Unless you Choose to Dumb if you ask me though ? ! )

Many a time I Play on here ! But Sometimes choose to Fight my Corner ! Thats why i dod Muay-Thai
! I Wont Stick my Chest out nor Furball up some testosterone !
Big men or Words Dont Intimidate me ! ( Unless they are Better Big men LOL )Thats Why there are Those Whom Teach and there are Teachers ! I think i do Both !
Its Took a Lonfg time and the Older I / we get the Less we really Know and Is Answered ! but along the Way we Encounter usefull and Non Usefull things we Absorb and Let Go of !

POINT?
is-
I Do Know where i stand in the Male Female Food Chain ! ( I respect Women and Feel they have a Tough Life, And I will Admit Given the Choice?
Im Coming back as a MAN again !
I T.H.A.N.K.Y.O.U. ! Lol :-p


Lees Of me More of this:-

Brian Writes-
there are some men in the world who think for themselves and don't have this "gender identity" problem that Rudy and you (Sandy) seem to have. You have really fucked up associations with what a man is and what a woman is. Just like your ridiculously closed minded comments about women with short hair looking like a "man". It's utterly asinine that you don't think about where you learned those associations, such as long hair = femanine. Or with the example of my comments where you said I sound like a female simply because I'm complaining about mistreatment of women.



Ha ha Sorry For laughing at you !
But Fact is 99% Of Women Dont have Chest and Back hair ! and a Moustashe or Beard ! ( Men do I will help you here )
Women have Feline / Feminine Bodies ( Like it or NOT Brian )
As With many Animals ( we Are also ) There is a SUBTLE Difference between us !
Like many Non Animal Species too They Differ !

Short Hair IS Associated With Men
Long is Assoc: With Women has for Hundreds of years ! With Occasional Men Growning Lengthy Hair along with a tashe and beard too !
( Dont see a lady with one do you ? )

its a very Simple Observation Brian that you Chose to Jump Down My throat Upon !

I'd be Interested to To see you in a Relationship as an Observer of how you was with regards to you Being a BLOKE and your Opposite SEX as your Girlfriend !
Or better still, In a Line Up of 10 Women you had to choose One to live on a Desert Island With ?
or Go on a date ?
Or marry ? Or go on Holiday ?
and you had a List of 10 things Us BLOKES Like in a Woman ?
( Same Works the Other way Ladies, Not saying its ONE way )
But Brians set a Challenge and I will meet him / it!
So At what point would A choice of yours be ? Whereby your List has these....
1. Womans Short Bristley hair ?
2. No Breasts?
3.Hairy Back ?
4. No Waist or Hips?
5.Hairy legs?
6.Fat ass?
7. `6` O-oclock Shadow?
8. Likes fasts Cars Bikes and Pints and Football ( Real type )
9.Swears and walks Like a Trooper
10.Scratches her Town halls In a Morning? After Farting and Picking nose coming out of the bathroom before you in the Mornings !


Your Move !!!!
:-p

Hello Rudy.

I just hooked my webcam up to my laptop and took this pic.
I'm in a coffee shop.

What next?
You want me to take a snap shot of my dick?

Stick to the points, Rudy.

Not My Type !

i apologize for the Spelling Mistakes but i have been up 23 Hours Now !
Sleep Derravation Kicking in !
But I still Know My Gender ! :-p

Sleep Depravation Kicking in !

Btw
I want this to Reach More than That Crap Topic ( laziest topic ever ) `FREE`
Its SH*TE :-p
LOL

FOR CHRIST SAKE would you look at the content of the PICS you POSTED, ONLY a FEMALE would PROUDLY post that!!

BEAR walks Into a Bar........................






































Barman asks ?























"Why the LONG PAUSE"
Paws Lol
hahah
Sorry just amusing Myself Waiting for Retort !
:-p

Sandy...

This is going off topic. I've posted on another thread about your associations with short hair. I posted a ton of pics of really really HOT women who had short hair. They obviously did not look like men. They looked REALLY good!

" But Fact is 99% Of Women Dont have Chest and Back hair ! and a Moustashe or Beard ! ( Men do I will help you here )"

Ok, I don't disagree with that statement. I did not make any mention of back, chest hair or mustaches. So I'm not sure what your point was.

"Women have Feline / Feminine Bodies ( Like it or NOT Brian )"

Need I post photos of women who do NOT have "feline" bodies? Whatever the hell that means.

"So At what point would A choice of yours be ? Whereby your List has these....
1. Womans Short Bristley hair ?
2. No Breasts?
3.Hairy Back ?
4. No Waist or Hips?
5.Hairy legs?
6.Fat ass?
7. `6` O-oclock Shadow?
8. Likes fasts Cars Bikes and Pints and Football ( Real type )
9.Swears and walks Like a Trooper
10.Scratches her Town halls In a Morning? After Farting and Picking nose coming out of the bathroom before you in the Mornings !"

What the hell??

Ok...
I have been attracted to many different women with many different body types. I dated a woman who didn't shave her legs once. I've dated women with small chests, large chests, small waists, wide waists, long hair, short hair, skinny, slightly overweight, short, tall. There are many different types of women in the world. They all demonstrate different forms of beauty that are not always reflected in the fashion mags.

'BRIAN' because you posted a picture of yourself, IT MEANS NOTHING!!
I wondered how you could be so PENDANTIC, scouring selected posts with a fine tooth comb, searching for mistakes, overturning EVERY sentence and word, where could you source such an inexhaustible source of energy.
ITS BECAUSE YOU ARE 3 DIFFERENT PEOPLE!!!

"FOR CHRIST SAKE would you look at the content of the PICS you POSTED, ONLY a FEMALE would PROUDLY post that!!"

Ok, now you're being desperate.

If you can't tackle my points, Rudy, just give up.

"ITS BECAUSE YOU ARE 3 DIFFERENT PEOPLE!!! "

LOL...that is awesome.
Honestly, that makes me feel really good.
It sort of gives me credit for how much work and time I put into this website.
Someone has actually thought that I am 3 different people.
Wow...thanks :)

Message for Rudy

Brian Why Cut n Paste almost Everything i wrote?
You was Questioning the Woman / man Indicatives ?
So you Dont Miine which you Go For ?
Thats your Choice ! Lifes all about Choice and the thing is We are Supposed to look alike in Similar ways ! Ther will allways be Exceptions ! we Know ! but basically Women are the weaker Sex !
And This is Summed up in Fighting !
I can end all your Arguments in `one` ( asyou Threatened But Didnt do, to Wipe us all out hahah LOl, your funny sometimes Brian, without even Knowing it )

Same Weight
Same Fight Exp:

Man V Woman ?
Game Well and Truly Over !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thats What Some people are trying to say Brian!
Would you Fight a Woman Brian ?
Would Brian Win ?
lol

"scouring selected posts with a fine tooth comb, searching for mistakes, overturning EVERY sentence and word, where could you source such an inexhaustible source of energy."

Wow...
That is a cool quote.
I want to print that out and frame it.

I wouldn’t say I have “old fashioned and outdated” viewpoints… I wouldn’t have lasted this long in my building business, let alone keep a martial arts gym viable for that long as well!!!

No gym operator in his right mind would target or centre their advertising campaign on women to boost membership over an extended period.. .. as a group, women in an extreme contact sport such as Muay Thai have and will always, be a minority.

Why waste time on them … ??? After all, time is a commodity.

Men are Supposed to be men and woman woman
Thats What was Created Brian
Yin and Yang
Dark and Light
Hard and Soft
Men and Women

1 Winner in a Fight though !

and Brian `3` People ?
mmmmmmmmmmmmm Dunno
But there again he could be
50 pence?
Old Dog?
Whacka?
Johnny pistol?
and on and on.
( just messing with ya Brian, While your on the `Ropes` )

"but basically Women are the weaker Sex !"
I admitted that they were physically weaker on the average. This does not consider every woman or every man.

"Same Weight
Same Fight Exp:
Man V Woman ?
Game Well and Truly Over !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"

That is inaccurate. There are a FUCK TON of men who weigh 135-140 lbs that would crumble to Lucia Rijker.

The differences between men and women are LARGELY exagerated. There is overlap. This is a perfect example of that.

Yet again, we go back to the Men vs Women theory.
A theoretical competition between men and women has NO BEARING on this discussion.

This thread is questioning whether you think WOMEN SHOULD FIGHT OTHER WOMEN.

Brian, the jig is up.
The more axers who read this through, will be compelled to reach the same conclusions I have. Why else the xtra effort of web cam shots but a scrambling attempt at damage control.

tick
tock

Chiang wrote "as a group, women in an extreme contact sport such as Muay Thai have and will always, be a minority. Why waste time on them … ??? After all, time is a commodity."

Because they deserve to be given the opportunity to prove themselves as viable competitors and entertainers in the fight ring.

Again, you apply a mentality toward women that you do NOT apply to men. Take that theory of yours and apply it like this...

115 lbs men are a minority in most of the gyms in the western world (I'm not talking Thailand in this example). Most of the competitors are larger men...145-255 lbs. Should the atomweights and strawweights not be allowed to compete? Because they are a minority?

Sandy wrote " ( just messing with ya Brian, While your on the `Ropes` )"

On the ropes, my ass.
I'm standing in the very middle of the ring.

You're in the stands making arguments that aren't even relevant to this thread.

Sandy wrote
"Men are Supposed to be men and woman woman
Thats What was Created Brian
Yin and Yang
Dark and Light
Hard and Soft
Men and Women"

That is a perfect example of skewed gener roles.
Dark and light??
So Men are dark and women are light?

Where do female fighters fit into your little demominations?
They are not "soft".
Some of them have abs like you do, Sandy.
Where do they fit into your perfect little picture of the world?

Actually Brian ( now that I have you here in PERSON(S)?) the question was 'of the two sexes which would put on a better display of ring fighting, HENCE 'and thats why you'll get more bang for buck by watching the fellas go round'
Do you remember that? or werent you there?

1. She Lost to a man Less weight than her] ! ( Lucia Rjiker was best Female Fighter Poun for Pound !
Brian Writes-

That is inaccurate. There are a FUCK TON of men who weigh 135-140 lbs that would crumble to Lucia Rijker.

And the Exact Same x 10 the Other way Round !

2. Brian Also Writes:-
This thread is questioning whether you think WOMEN SHOULD FIGHT OTHER WOMEN.

Nope Its:-
"Do You Think Women Should Fight" ( read your own Forum Brian )

Next Brian Writes-

Yet again, we go back to the Men vs Women theory.
A theoretical competition between men and women has NO BEARING on this discussion.


But it has A lot to do with the Discussion !
Im All For Women Fighting i have a World ladies Thai-Boxing Muayt_thai Champ in My Gym Jussy Lowe Who did the Mens "5 x 3" Mins ! Not the Girl 5 x 2 sometimes Done ! ( Still a Bone of Contention for me )
We are Talking about Women in a mainly mans Sport

Lumpinee and Rachadamnern Still a woman Cannot even get into the Ring and Shake a Fighters hand let alone Fight there !
These are issues I can Argue !
but your `Feminine` approaches and answers Dont add Up Brian !

Maybe if you have Fought in a Real Thai-Boxing fight Fight Brian You would be by this time Bounced off the Ropes and into the Crowd that awaits you :-p
And That Crowd wouldnt Know what you have thats gonna End this Debate a Winner and hands raised !

Sandy wrote
"Men are Supposed to be men and woman woman
Thats What was Created Brian
Yin and Yang
Dark and Light
Hard and Soft
Men and Women"

Brian wrote
That is a perfect example of skewed gener roles.
Dark and light??
So Men are dark and women are light?

Brian your answers have degraded into rhetoric as you strive to distract readers from the TRUTH uncovered here!!!
You are a sad little man!
The jury is out for now.....................but had better start moderating a SHIT LOAD of these posts if you dont want to be EXPOSED for the FRAUD you ARE!

Neither do you !

Neither do you ! was in ref: to Brian !
( Rudys Post Came in before my last One ! )
And That Crowd wouldnt Know what you have thats gonna End this Debate a Winner and hands raised !

Rudy wrote "of the two sexes which would put on a better display of ring fighting, HENCE 'and thats why you'll get more bang for buck by watching the fellas go round'"

Exactly...and I've argued against that point already. There are dozens of people on this thread who say that women put on a better show than the men. I gave examples of why women might be in a better position to put on a better display of ring fighting, due to the fact that they are (on average) weaker, physically. That would mean that they rely more on technique.


Sandy wrote "She Lost to a man Less weight than her] ! ( Lucia Rjiker was best Female Fighter Poun for Pound !"

Yes, that is true. Yet, that doesn't counter what I said. i said " There are a FUCK TON of men who weigh 135-140 lbs that would crumble to Lucia Rijker."

Sandy wrote "This thread is questioning whether you think WOMEN SHOULD FIGHT OTHER WOMEN. Nope Its:-
"Do You Think Women Should Fight" ( read your own Forum Brian )"

I know exactly what I wrote, Sandy. When women fight in the ring, they are fighting other women. That is the purpose of this thread, to question whether you think women should fight other women. Are you smoking the same thing that porsche911 was smoking??

Sandy wrote " We are Talking about Women in a mainly mans Sport"

Yes...AGAINST OTHER WOMEN.

Sandy wrote " but your `Feminine` approaches and answers Dont add Up Brian !"

Bullshit. Everytime you claim to find a hole in my arguments, I plug it right up with a reply. I've responded to EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR POINTS.

Rudy wrote "Brian your answers have degraded into rhetoric as you strive to distract readers from the TRUTH uncovered here!!!"

1.)I'm quoting what you guys are typing so that you know what I am responding to.

2.)I'm responding to everything you are typing, point-for-point.

3.)I even posted a picture of my self from 15 minutes ago to counter your ridiculous claim that I'm 3 different people or that I'm not a man.


Rudy, You can't handle this discussion.
You refuse to respond to my points discussed earlier.
You keep making this a character discussion about me.

"Maybe if you have Fought in a Real Thai-Boxing fight Fight Brian You would be by this time Bounced off the Ropes and into the Crowd that awaits you :-p"

What the fuck????

BRIAN WROTE. I gave examples of why women might be in a better position to put on a better display of ring fighting, due to the fact that they are (on average) weaker, physically.

OKAY BRIAN then K1 UFC LUMPINEE WBA WBC IBF MUST be wrong and YOU ARE RIGHT!!!
Plus the millions NAY billions of o people who brought tickets to the shows and ALL the PAY PER VIEW views over the years!!

Brian dont you feel dizzy by now!

AW SHIT I gotta go ....
Brian I'll see your ship sunk before I'm through....

RElevence to this-
Brian Ritchie writes:

Sandy wrote " ( just messing with ya Brian, While your on the `Ropes` )"

On the ropes, my ass.
I'm standing in the very middle of the ring.

You're in the stands making arguments that aren't even relevant to this thread.
You also Wrote-

Brian Ritchie writes:

"Maybe if you have Fought in a Real Thai-Boxing fight Fight Brian You would be by this time Bounced off the Ropes and into the Crowd that awaits you :-p"

What the f*ck????

Thats What !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Read It !
You have Plugged Holes that still leak watwer sometimes ! :-p

Rudy...

Oh jesus christ.

I responded to that point like...last year.

We are going in circles.

Did you even read my replies?

1. Women are not given the proper support or respect in the gym to develop their side of the sport.
2. Women are not given enough opportunities to compete. Many promoters do not respect them as fighters.
3. Big changes have occurred within the fight community since Kristy Martin fought on the undercard of the Mike Tyson fight nearly 10 years ago. Still, there is a LONG way to go to develop female fighting.
4. Men have been given support for fight competition since the age of time. To make comparisons between whether men or women are a bigger draw in the fight ring is simply not fair for that reason.
5. MANY people (men and women) are interested in seeing women fight. MANY!

its a Quality Debate !
:-)

The premise for my argument is not about weight ..., not about gender..., but who walks through the door and pays the bills ...

" Thats What !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Read It !"

Sandy

I did read it.
I still fail to see the relevance of that comment.

Maybe if you had fought in a real Mixed Martial Arts fight, you would get choked out until you shit in your pants.

What in the hell does that have to do with this discussion?

??????????????????

Quick Question Brian as im Still In Support of Women Fighting Btw
Wheres all the Female Axers?
the Sport is Still lacking and needs More Women in it !
But not enough Case Studies to Back the whole arguement up though ! is there?
How many Female Fight compared to men ?
have you Actually seen Brian ???
Honestly ? Yourself? How many Women Fight you seen ?

Chaing wrote "The premise for my argument is not about weight ..., not about gender..., but who walks through the door and pays the bills ..."

Yes...and it has been said many times by many people that lighter fighters do not pull a crowd, not like the larger men. Heavier fighters make the most money at the gate.

Now go back and give an honest reply to my point, please.
Don't evade it.

And Brian Im Playing If i was Fighting ?
youd be `Choking` as well as, after a few Low Kicks :-p

" How many Female Fight compared to men ?
have you Actually seen Brian ???
Honestly ? Yourself? How many Women Fight you seen ?"

Fuck sandy...I've been watching Kickboxing, boxing and MMA matches since I was 18. That is 11 years of watching fights. How the hell am I supposed to answer that? I fucking lot, I guess, yet not as much as the men. There are more male fights televised than female fights. There are more male fights on fightcards than female fights.

Your point eludes me.

BTW
do i think women should Fight?
"YES"
i said that about a Mile Up Didnt i ??
:-p
And Hope this Topic beats `FREE` its still a load of Bull-50 lazy Topic !
:-p
oh and this is Still a Good debate !:-))))

"And Brian Im Playing If i was Fighting ?
youd be `Choking` as well as, after a few Low Kicks :-p"

WHAT?!?!?!

I was giving an example of the absurdity of your comment. I was not threatening you or challenging you to a match.

Sandy, keep the personal attacks out of this.

If you can't handle this discussion, then keep out of it.

Point Is
Overall Do you think its Right?
Seeing as your SO defensive over the Females ? Overly so !
What about Elbows to the Face For Instance Full MT Rules ?
you agree ?

"oh and this is Still a Good debate !:-))))"

This is not a good debate at all.
This is good diversion.

None of you are responding to my points that I originally made.

You keep pulling up tangents that are not relevant.
YOU Are getting personally offended and making comments about what would happen to me if I were in a "real thai boxing match".
Rudy can barely write a full sentence, let alone keep up with my arguments.

My arguments are lost on you.

Youd agree a Good Fight Elbows Kicks Smashing into the Face the Odd Knee ! All the Punches into a mans face are ALL Accepted Scars, Blood n all ! YEP ?? !

All that to a Woman ?
YOU agrea?????

DOUBT it

" Seeing as your SO defensive over the Females ? Overly so !"

Underly so.

"What about Elbows to the Face For Instance Full MT Rules ?
you agree ?"

Jesus fucking christ...another tangent.

I think women should fight full Thai rules if that is what they want to compete in. It is obviously up to the individual woman. I have said many times before on Ax that I do not like to see fights end on cuts. That doesn't change depending on whether it is a man or woman. If I saw a woman get a massive cut on her face from an elbow, it would not gross me out. I would be disappointed that the fight ended that way because I would rather see a knockout or a decisive decision.

" Youd agree a Good Fight Elbows Kicks Smashing into the Face the Odd Knee ! All the Punches into a mans face are ALL Accepted Scars, Blood n all ! YEP ?? !
All that to a Woman ?
YOU agrea?????"

If I understand what you just typed...yes, I think it is acceptable for women to take punishment in the ring, including knees to the face, blood, scars and everything. Definitely.

Satankid actually Quoted a Cracking topic ref: `Womens Boxing`( way up on here ! )
What Frank Bruno said !
Interesting !
please give me your oppinion to that Remark and his Oppinion !
Which as a Former World Boxing Champion ! has to have Some relevence ! yep ?

last post as 24 Hours outa bed aint doing me too many Favours its 6.40 Am
I was up yesterday at 7.0am
see ya tommorow !
( Keep ya Gloves on :-p )
:-)

" DOUBT it "

What is that in response to??

That I said my arguments are lost on you?

You're not even acknowledging my points.
Same as Rudy.
Same as Chiang.

OH BRIIAAAN

Care to back this claim up? any links? names dates places?



'There are SOME women who can slaughter men in the ring at the same age, height, weight.'

Would you care to dispute the fact that MALE bouts recieve more attention than female bouts? for the REASON that they (the fellas that is) do it better ? and by the way how bout a shot of you outside the cafe?

Of course not. Women fight women 99.99999999% of the time. There are few examples of women even fighting men.

I weigh 165 lbs right now.
Lucia Rijker probably weighs about 140-145.
I'm pretty sure that she could beat the living shit out of me in a Kickboxing or boxing match.

...And this STILL is irrelevant to the discussion.
This topic is asking whether you think women should fight other women in the ring.
YOU keep bringing up the comparisons of men vs women.
I have no idea why.

Round and round again and Rudy is lost.

"Would you care to dispute the fact that MALE bouts recieve more attention than female bouts? "

I ALREADY RESPONDED TO THIS POINT!!!
SCROLL UP!!!

[tries to figure out how to take a pic of myself outside of the coffee shop with a webcam, which is attached to my laptop inside the coffee shop]


Be right back...

The question was "should women fight" not "what do you think about women fighting"

The simple answer is ofcourse they should be allowed to fight, its a personal decision

HOWEVER when it comes to what the fan wants, its probably not going to be a girl fight. Id rather watch 2 guys fight anyday over two women at the same level

Alright...the coffee shop is closing. I'm going to take a pic of myself outside the coffee shop, then i'll login when I get home and post it.

Because Men are often too fucking stupid to break out of the bounds of their societal influences. It embarasses me to be associated with other men...to be places in that grouping. As I get old and I see more examples of stupid men, my cynacism just gets worse. They are supposedly the ones running the world, yet so many of them are nothing but programmed sheep...programmed by society on how to be a "man".



Brian did you write this?

Are these you're thoughts also?



'Many Women support these inequalities too! They marry the dipshit abusive alcoholic husband. They go home with the "playa" from the bar. They take abuse from their bosses and rationalize it. They do this simply because they do not know any better. It's how they were raised in this society. It's a vicuous cycle.'

Brian either you have GOT to be the LAMEST dude I have ever known OR SOMEBODY ELSE is posting instead of you.
These words above are from a mind and perspective of.........YOU GUESSED IT...
A WOMAN!

forget about posting your pic as you'll be driving out to find one right now!

It is monsoon season here in Tucson. It is raining right now.
BUT, I took a pic really quickly before my laptop got very wet.

The name of the coffee shop is Bentley's

hmm there is an air of childishn ness about this thread
just my honest opinion
my £0.02 worth :P

This is a pic of the video store sign where I just dropped off my videos on my way home from the coffee shop.
My laptop was sitting on the passenger seat.

Farhad calls something childish.

News at 11:00

This is me driving on my way home from the coffee shop

This is my personal message to Rudy

Rudy...
Yes, I wrote all of that.
Those are my thoughts.

My points here do not make me any less of a man than you.
It's too bad you don't get that.

Rudy, boxing/muay thai has rules war does not (not unless you believe that fairytale geneva coventation that noone follows) in war I wouldn't fight you hand to hand in a boxing ring I'd be in my nice dug in fire trench and shoot you and your mates in the back if I had a choice.

Macho boxers in amercia come out with the bullshit I'm gonna take you to war as brian says the use of the word war in sport is a metaphor. If you want to treat sport as a war does that mean when you lose a fight your prepared to get shot to finish you off.

This is my last word on this as this agrument on here is going out of control. You can't compare sport to war. On saying that Sunderland might have a chance of beating Newcastle at football if they were allowed to use weapons mmmm mines in front of the goal nice!!!!!!!

Anyway I'm all for women fighting they are more dangerous than blokes in a fight anyway especially in a pub fight. That hitting people with high heels makes me wince.

Rudy Brians very PC and that and I've had arguments with him about ring card girls and we don't agree on much but I've got to say on this thread I'm on his side.

Nothing a matter with old fashioned moral values such as not hitting women like Porsche 911 says. I was brought up not to hit women as well and I ever ever have hit one I'm proud to say though I've got a slap off plently but I can't really see how you can argue against women fighting other women in a controlled ring sport.

"Rudy Brians very PC and that and I've had arguments with him about ring card girls and we don't agree on much but I've got to say on this thread I'm on his side."

There is a big difference between my attitude and political correctness.
Please don't shovel my thoughts under the carpet of some generalization such as political correctness.
There is nothing political about my actions.
There never is.

Ok then your beliefs then

Thank you

No problem I know we have argued in the past but I agree with you on this issue. I honestly can't see how people can justify women not fighting. Most of the moral arguments against women fighting can be applied to men we all know these sports have health risks/dangers but so does mountain climbing etc and women do that. Rugby has more injuries than ring sports and there are womens rugby teams.

Anyway I'm not saying any more on this cause the same old arguments are being used again and again its good porsche has chnaged his view point slightly thats what debate is all about.

I just read this through.

I only post as me and am not your comic releif!

Sandy, I have to agree with you about elbows to the face etc, but I suppose its like Brian says people choose what rules they are gonna fight don't they?

I find it really offensive that rudy and sandy basically keep saying Brian sounds like a female as a way to say that his arguments are lame, stupid, not good enough. That is pathetic.

they dont have any other answer though to his points! just look for other ways to attack the character! pathetic indeed!

yes, but to do it by inferring that sounding 'female' is somehow a bad, weak, irrational thing. Sandy, I am surprised that you would take the tack of saying that you don't understand why Brian feels so strongly about this issue. The main issue is one of human rights - equality!

Those gyms who don't want to cater to women fighting/training so that they can devote their resources to the men..... well they obviously won't be exploiting a growing market which makes up 53%of the total population. Many of the gyms I've been to have a large percentage of women who train, if not fight. Would women be so eager to train in an environment where they know they're not valued and will never have a chance to test their skill in the ring because their trainers don't believe in them? Chaing, there is something to be said for business men who keep their eyes on the growth markets, investing in the future and all that.

just you wait my friends.
i`m gonna make an "OffTopic:open letter to Brian and Kara".
in a couple of hours.i copied this very thread.
i named the file:"witch-hunt 2004".

all my respect to Rudy.you deserve a medal for "love of truth".unfortunatelly
such a medal doesn`t exist.

K&B have to be a little patient.but it`s worth waiting for.
it`s gonna be fun.

this thread just goes round and round in circles
but at least its funny :P

I understand where Brian is coming from... (I still didnt post on his behalf)

I am all male...

....but I was also brought up in a family where we lived with my Mum and her identical Twin....I have one brother and one male cousin and two sisters and 2 female cousins. I empathise with women, I am more comfortable in the company of women and relate better to women than I do to men! If I have a problem I would rather discuss it with a woman ...Does that make me a woman or am I gay????

Hi Guys ( metorphorically Speaking on My P.C. he he )

This was a Good Post From BAZ
Baz Faulty writes:

Rudy, boxing/muay thai has rules war does not (not unless you believe that fairytale geneva coventation that noone follows) in war I wouldn't fight you hand to hand in a boxing ring I'd be in my nice dug in fire trench and shoot you and your mates in the back if I had a choice.

Macho boxers in amercia come out with the bullshit I'm gonna take you to war as brian says the use of the word war in sport is a metaphor. If you want to treat sport as a war does that mean when you lose a fight your prepared to get shot to finish you off.

This is my last word on this as this agrument on here is going out of control. You can't compare sport to war. On saying that Sunderland might have a chance of beating Newcastle at football if they were allowed to use weapons mmmm mines in front of the goal nice!!!!!!!

Anyway I'm all for women fighting they are more dangerous than blokes in a fight anyway especially in a pub fight. That hitting people with high heels makes me wince.

Rudy Brians very PC and that and I've had arguments with him about ring card girls and we don't agree on much but I've got to say on this thread I'm on his side.

Nothing a matter with old fashioned moral values such as not hitting women like Porsche 911 says. I was brought up not to hit women as well and I ever ever have hit one I'm proud to say though I've got a slap off plently but I can't really see how you can argue against women fighting other women in a controlled ring sport.

haha...I just realised! I am a Lesbian! :)

an argument "going out of control" is disturbing you ?are you ill?

Hi Guys ( metorphorically Speaking on My P.C. he he )

KARA
Dont be Surprised At what i was saying ! the main Point is i Push and Promote probably More Women in Thai-Boxing than Many off here and In the Sport
As Every Show ive Promoted in the U.K. has Had a Female Fighter on ! or a Few !
This Topic isnt about How Long your Sexy Feminine Hair is? Or Political Issues?
Its About Women Fighting? And i Totally Agree !!!!!! ( The Banter, coz thats all it was and Fun on my part With Brian Late last Night and Till morning )

You have a Choice in men ?
i have a Choice in Women and Like Brian said about his Choices they are Very Variant as its Not always the Physical Attraction But theit Heart, Mind, and Life Spirit ! ( We know that ) BUT you have to Admit it usually Starts with SOME Physical Attraction you / Brian and Us all Cannot Deny that !?? NO Way ?!

Now then..........
Thai-Boxing is VERY Physical and demanding !
its a FIGHT and Fights are mostly Male done in the Animal World ( Humans too ) Over Their "Females" and Or for Land ? Territory ? etc:

So because its a Mainly Male Dominated Sport Men Dont want to see the Female Species Fighting as its Not Feminine ! ( ask 100 Females and Males that Question anywhere? ) see what Respons you get ? ( This is Not my Oppinion but that of Most ! )
But we are in this Sport and Do Promote BOTH ! And to Fight !
Masculine Tendencies Are That from males ! But to Understand Femininety ?
isnt Wrong Nor bad !
But You asked me Why i said some of those things? and to Question Brians Fem or Masc: ?
Well its all about what i was saying to him ! There is the YIN and YANG in our `2` Species !
Hard and Soft, Dark and Light ( Black/White )
Male and Female ( we Go Hand in hand, BUT we ARE DIFFERENT and SEPERATE! )
Bria was Speaking a Little too Much like a Females Point of View ( IMO ) Wasnt being Rude nor Funny, But he was avin a pop re: the Old Points i made about Women / Long hair etc: I was Avin a Banter and a Verbal Spar over it and this !



Kara, You have met me many times! I try to be a gentleman and Most def: treat Ladies Like a Equal and Def: as a female / Lady You Know me / that ! Dont Doubt it / me !

But we are in this Sport and Do Promote BOTH ! to Fight !
And At least I DO TOO !

Baz I'm glad it's your LAST word.

Brian Ritchie writes on 2/"/2003:
"To go deeper into the issue...I believe there is a major unbalance in the earth...between humans and the rest of the planet. Other animals usually have some sort of balance between predator and prey and between them and the environment. Ever since we've started making stone tools, we've stepped past our natural boundaries and have covered most of the globe with our buildings, structures, houses, golf courses, amusement parks. I think we've asked way too much from the rest of the earh..." ("OTHER ANIMALS")

how does this go together with
"but what the hell does this have to do with Humans? Nothing"

you often criticized my self-contradictions,so please make up your mind:
statement A or B ?
if it`s B then:
"Mit uns ist`s aus für diese Welt".

once again respect to Rudy for speaking out what everybody thinks but nobody has the guts to say loud.even if i DIDN`T agree to him (but i do),his intrepidity has to be praised.

to be continued.

Gerhard

Dave, of course you did, you AND Helen.
as Brian's lackey's ah oops moderators, you felt posting as Brian lent your words more gravity, thus effective MODERATION, but when this topic came up Helen couldn't help herself so she roles up her sleeves and wades in...
"men are often to fucking stupid..."???
Cmon Dave, the truth will set you free.

I'll cut you a deal, 'fess up and you'll only serve 1/2 with good behaviour.

lol this is All Mad and Fun and INTERESTING oh and Watch out guys
AX Jail ?

i`m trying to quantify my interest in fights under various circumstances:
1)Full MT-rules,men 100 %
2)Full Mt-rules ,women 95 %
3)Full etc HEAVYWEIGHT 70%
4)Modified :P rules,K-1 50%

i think every sensitive person has to be enraged about disrespect for femal fighters.i think if i would witness something like that,i could do something very UN-shy.
but:how does this attitude come into the heads of certain men? "Social conditioning" etc doesn`t explain ANYTHING imo.
i only see INDIVIDUALS."there is no such thing as society".
i think this talk of "society"nourishes an illusion of things can be CHANGED.

sorry,i`m falling asleep in front of computer.
more to come tomorrow.i hope it`ll make sense.

and Brian:i am NOT a misogynic :)
if i were,i`d admit it without hesitating one second.
it`s that old "nature vs.nurture"-debate rather.
Nature=evil,
Culture=good.
how stupid !!!!
this "culture is stronger than nature"attitude makes me freak out :).

Brian you wanna flip me the bird??? well FUCK you right back little man.
You are a FAKE, and if any of you AXERS took the time to read this entire thread objectively (irrespective of wether you are female or male) paying special attention to 'Brians' remarks, you would be FORCED to come to the CONCLUSION that it is a FEMALE authoring those comments.

Speaking Of Women ?
how many ya see in Jail ? compared to men ?
and I Know its a Little Off topic, BUT we are Discussing part of the Pshyche (spel) But it is `Relating` to Why we Do ? or Dont ? Want / like Women to Fight???

And hey i got `6` Months for Posting a FINGER too LOL
and it wasnt My Finger! nor me !


Brian Ritchie writes:
`This is my personal message to Rudy`
( ONE Finger Up pic: up above )
Cant Post it coz i Might Get banned again ? :-(((





( Funny pics: though Brian, you guys are So Funny )

Kara 53% Of the Populus is Female
Why Do you Think i like them ?
( Joke )
and Seriously ive Allways Advertised to this market and Think its Very Important !
But This Is another Issue and `Marketting` is a strong Point for me !
Also Ive Allways Pushed for the Women in Our Sport to Go Forward etc:
Like I said !I have A FEMALE ( 1 ) World Champion In My Gym
`22` Champions in Total in 21 Years our Clubs History
and Ive Every Champion from these Levels-

North West Area
English
British,
Commonwealth
European

And as I say `1` World Champion and it isnt a MALE
She is a ( Jussy Lowe ) Female !
SO I DO Agree With Women Fighting !
But doeasnt Stop me Believeing
Women have Certain Roles ! and as do men !
And i see some of the Points Other AXers are making on here !
And Will Continue to Say Brain is seeing it through Different eyes !

And Strongly Believe Women Should and can be Feminine and be a World Champ too
Many I Know are:-
Lisa Howarth
Lisa Houghton-Smith
Mary hart
Jussy Lowe to name Just a few !

Is he married ? got a girlfriend?
curious>>>>>>>
because sorry to say Brian it seems you are trying to win the hearts of all the ladies on Ax .LOL and I think Karas falling for you damn it! I thought I had a chance!!! LOL

By the way I think ladies should fight if thats what there heart desires go for it , happy great..

and yeah let the good times roll

Peace ,happiness,and woodstoves

Rudy says "Baz I'm glad it's your LAST word.''

I say "Rudy hadaway and shite.''

This is getting interesting Rudy and Brian are getting serious I must admit despite myself I quite like Rudys following post

Brian you wanna flip me the bird??? well FUCK you right back little man.
You are a FAKE, and if any of you AXERS took the time to read this entire thread objectively (irrespective of wether you are female or male) paying special attention to 'Brians' remarks, you would be FORCED to come to the CONCLUSION that it is a FEMALE authoring those comments.

classic

come on brian your not going to give in are you I think at the moment Rudy is ahead on points, not for logical argument but for sheer amount of posts and he's creative, Brians not writing his own posts lol. I get my dog to write mine its more clever than me.

This is shaping up to be a real WAR come on guys break out the weapons and lets get it on.

Just out of interest Rudy do any women train at your gym? I just wonder what the situation for women fighters is like over in Australia. In the North East of England where I live its tradtionally a very un PC male dominated environment where anybody different like gay people etc are discriminated against. Funnily enough through people don't tend to be racist just sexist and homophobic. I think the main worst offenders are my fathers generation he's about 50 odd the new generations seem to be a bit more liberal but we still can drink 10 pints without needing a piss and only puffs wear coats even if its snowing. LOL

My old boxing coach used to treat the girls who came to his gym very bad. He never used to take them seriously which annoyed me cause their money is as good as anyone elses and they used to train really hard. He was a typical example of a tradtional NE hard man. Gentlemen, really old school coaching, tough as nails but not a bully. I was proud to have this man as a coach but his attritrude towards women boxing was in the stone ages. He didn't mind them training but he was totally against them fighting. Thing is these views keeps getting passed down to other generations because of imprinting if your father kept telling you he hates puffs etc etc then you are going to be quite heavily bialised towards disliking them.

My fathers only fault in my eyes is he's very homophobic, lovely bloke do anything for anything but he totally hates gay people. Now I used to think along these same lines until a few years ago I started going out with this girl who had a couple of gay friends. She delivered me a threat either talk to my friends or I'll finish you. She was really good in bed and having a face like tysons I don't get that much sex so I decided to make a effort. Went out one night with them and her on the piss and they were canny blokes. Just normal guys they were'nt totally over the top camp like graham norton and we had a top night out. Quite scary like one of them told me I had come to bed eyes aggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Seriously through I think you should never ever judge people until you get to know them. I think a lot of people let themselves be influenced by other peoples world views. I think peoples views and beliefs change with time I'm a totally different person now than what I was like at 16. I was a totally macho bloke thought I was hard as f@ck and being a real man was about how many pints you could drink, how many girls you could chat up and gay people (apart from lesbians in porn films) were to take the piss out of.

I wouldn't say I'm particulary leftwing or PC now I'm just a normal bloke who likes girls/beer/boxing/clubbing I've got a wide range of mates some of whom are sexist etc but thats life for you everybodys entitled to their views/beliefs. My boss is a born again christian and I'm a buddhist but he doesent ram his views down my neck and vice versa.

I've got a wide range of mates from my totally right wing young tory mates I got to know through the TA to my hippy left wing mates who I know through work.

I'm surprised to see your quite older than me Rudy your posts come across as written by someone much younger. They remind me of my views when I was younger never know mate by the end of this thread we may have converted you to supporting women fighting.

I must say some of your posts have good points when your not banging on all macho about war, combat etc etc etc.

"now stay with me brother.....the rest of reason #1 goes "all the prestiege and money is focused on the chaps" which none of you can dispute, because the alternative is that institutions such as K1, Lumpinee championships, UFC, IBF,WBA,WBC etc etc have got it wrong for decades and squandered millions upon millions of dollars on the wrong gender!!!''

Your right all the money is focused on the blokes because boxing is a male dominated sport same with muay thai. Years of tradition take time to change the key to money in sport is image. You take Mike Tyson a fighter who was awesome in his prime, who is my one of my fave fighters of all time, now he's been reduced to a one punch ko merchant with no head movement etc but he can still command more PVV than a good unknown fighter who has more boxing skills than him.

Its all marketing Winky Wright could prob beat oscar de la hoya because oscar is an aging fighter but again oscar can get more ppv and money. All women fighters need is marketing you get a female fighter who comes along and can do the business and is exciting to watch you promote her and get tv coverage which is the key and thats when this sport will start to change.

Women fighters are in a minority at the moment compared to men but as more women take the sport up, the more women will start to fight and thats when women fighters will become as big as men.

One of the problems I think is that men take up the sport to prove something to themselves (I took up boxing cause I wanted to see if I had the balls to do it) where women take up the sport to get fit. Therefore more men are likely to fight cause they wanna see if they can do the business in the ring where women just want to get fit (so they can catch baz's eye in the nightclub lol).

Anyway this is far too logical and nice to be posting stuff like this on the ax.

come on brian and rudy don't give up the scrap yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lets see some arguments and counterarguments!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This most be the longest post I've ever writen I better print it out in case I need some toilet paper later. lol

Rudy, before you start I write my own posts I don't have a crew of moderators...joke Brian before you lose control as well!

I'm getting a new assitant at work today to boss around sod the asbestos I'll start her off posting my views on ax got to go anyway graft to do.

Damn, this thread would take a week to read fully.

I don't understand why everyone is so pissed at Rudy.
He's just as entitled to his opinions.


Rudy, I don't agree with your opinion but the majority of the non fight world seems to.

I believe Fox sports Australia has a policy of not wanting to show female bouts. I'm guessing for the bad publicity other networks have gotten oversees in the past. People generally don't like seeing female faces bleeding, where it's totally acceptable for men to bleed in public, and at the same time recieve adulation for both dishing it out, and for taking it like a man - so to speak.

If people find it acceptable that women serve on warships, and fly military aircraft, than surely we the public should appreciate the need the female sex has to want to physically fight and test themselves in ringsports as well.

shyguy, you sound like Margaret Thatcher with your 'there is no society, only individual' :)
I don't know why you think I've involved myself in a witch hunt though? I'm just putting my ideas forward like anyone else here, I'm not even being particularily aggresive about it. £$%%$&&%&@@@***!!!!!!

Sandy, I wasn't questioning at all you position on this topic or your idea of femininity, rather the way you used Brian communicating like a women (in your opinion) as a way to say that his arguments were bad. Replace 'women' with any minority group then you'd have loads of people getting very upset with this idea. Yes I DO know you, and I know that we have very different ideas about some things, I certainly don't believe in the idea of gender roles being so fixed. Whatever, that doesn't mean I don't appreciate you :p

n8dog, I'm hardly the type to swoon! :)

Kara,i actually quoted Margaret Thatcher.

statements like "humans are not animals"freak me out.don`t take it personal.
do you know what you are saying with such statements ?that all the millions of species on this planet can be divided in just TWO categories:human beings and the rest !
Kara,we ARE animals.we have to eat,we need oxygene,we have to go to the toilet.

"Typical masculine and feminine traits are in a large part socially constructed and so they can and should change as society changes. "
that`s wrong.there are thousands of scientific results that proove the opposite.gene,G-E-N-E-S largely determine our behaviour.the remaining ENVIRONMENTAL influences are things like "exposure of the embryo to substances,
position of embryo in uterus(in case of twins)etc. so factors that can NOT be shaped by "society".

*conciliatory* Kara,why do you identify
Nature with "evil" and
Culture with "good" ?

imagine a totalitarian system that wants to sacrifice boys from age 14+ in a terrible war.so the propaganda of this system will say "to sacrifice your young life is a noble and heroic thing to do". but the Mothers of these boys won`t buy it.they will try toresist.because their INSTINCTS tell them so.
i have read a book that`s entirely dedicated to reconciliation strategies of apes and monkeys.

unlike you i`m convinced that we can NOT (re-)create ourselves.
unlike you i don`t think this is merely bad news.there are a lot of positive instincts we can build on in the future.
we don`t have to believe that "tabula rasa"-nonsense if we want a human and
peaceful future.

"witch-hunt" was refering to BrianRitchie and Mr.Smith,NOT to you Kara.

your view of animals makes me sad :((
believe me,i prefer to be nice and polite.
but animals are to me what women are to Brian.
i can`t talk about them without emotions.

it`s true that you weren`t aggressive.you just hit a nerve.MY fault,not yours.
Sorry if you feel offended.

Gerhard

Sorry shyguy - So few people I know actually quote her on purpose lol!

I'm not offended at all, but I do think you misunderstand me. I agree that humans ARE animals and that it is very dangerous for humans to draw a line between the two as though we are seperate and superior. I don't however believe that we are simply a product of our genetics and instincts. I think that the cultural changes which have taken place over the ages speaks to the fact that we CAN change. The idea that we cannot better ourselves is also frightening. There would be no reason to campaign for human rights, environmental change, equity for less developed nations. We can and should change, grow, modify our behaviour when it is necessary not only for survival, but also when it is necessary in order to protect people with no/less voice.

We cannot compare humans to other species though in the same way as you wouldn't judge a lion's behaviour by a whale's. Just because some species are more aggressive doesn't mean we should be. Just because whales live in the ocean doesn't mean we should too (although a holiday every once in a while is much appreciated!)

EXCELLENT reply,Kara.
i`m well aware of the danger that we just pick an animal to explain the policy we prefer as being "natural",like war or suppression of women-i disapprove this as much as you do!

i`ll try to stay as open-minded as you are :)

To get this straight:i think the opinion “women shouldn`t fight”is folly and ridiculous.
When i`m refering to Rudy being right,i`m talking about the second of his arguments.

BRIAN:

“men were designed to fight“is an oversimplification. instead of analyzing this precisely you
chose to present pics that are appropriate for a monster movie.do you have a collection of “men”like these :) ? do these pics reflect your associations to the word “man”:)?


You were speculating about the psychological background of Rudys views(in an utterly malicious way,i have to add).
Please don`t mix up these two questions:
1)why does Mr.X state Y.
2)is the statement Y T-R-U-E
(i`m not referring to “women shouldn`t fight”.that is an opinion and thus beyond of true/false.i am refering to that“designed “-part. )
but why shouldn`t we apply the first question to you?why not making an examination about the
motivation for YOUR approach?have you ever tried to give account to yourself as to why you appreciate women SO much,instead of just saying:”i happen to like women”.PERIOD.
for i have SERIOUS doubts that your appreciation for women has a lot to do with compassion. Indication for my doubts can be found at the “Beggars”-thread with your cold-as-fish-statement.i was petrified when i read that.even if i have evidence that the beggar X turns down 10 pleasant jobs DAILY,i STILL have pity for him.cause i have a heart.
Unlike you.
the reason for your onesided-attitude has still to be found.
(it`s really ironic:your Beggars-assessment could be judged as”harsh,but true.”
Here Rudy did the very same thing-and you want to kill him.)


Do you appreciate TRYING or ACCOMPLISHING in MartialArts ?
Do you judge TRYING higher in women`s fights then you do in men`s fights?


That lightweight-point is VERY good,thank you :)
Is it possible that women`s fights are inferior to men`s in ways other than just by STRENGTH ? e.g. in STRATEGY ?(whereas strategy in lightweight is at same standard as in heavyweight ?)
Me= puny lover=far from being able to judge the strategy of a fight.
But i think Dave J said something on an old topic that indicates the answer is yes ???




DIGRESSION:”MOOD SWINGS”
I DO have mood swings.and i am not offended that you`re rubbing it in over and over again :P

BUT think about this scenario:
A car accident.both parts are guilty to 50 %.you have discussed the accident with the other guy.now you lie in bed and re-think everything.
Isn`t it THE MOST NATURAL THING IN THE WORLD THAT:
a)if you said “i`m the guilty one”before NOW all the aspects that indicate that THE OTHER GUY is guilty will come to your mind
b) vice versa.

LISTEN,BRIAN:
I imagine:
a)two likeable women in the ring.they have trained for months.they are very nervous and excited.they give their best.in the audience stupid,ugly,drunken men are making fun of them.
I want to puke in their faces.
b)a sociology-professor talking crap-as-crap-can Bullshit like “social conditioning”,”social poagramming”.
Now i want to puke in HIS face.


i think DAN and PAUL did a much better job in defending women`s sport than you did .
Cause unlike you they didn`t distort certain facts.
Women`s tennis being more appealing that man`s which suffers from over-athleticism and
Speed-who can deny that ? good observation,thank you.

If i got it right,Paul says that improvement for women can be achieved by stopping to be over-protective towards them.i think this criticism should be addressed at BRIAN primarily.
Brian,all of your statements about women are based on the assumption that women are SO fragile and need protection.particularly YOUR protection,strong hero ! in other words:you are
Ultra-REACTIONARY  !isn`t that ironic?


“I think you were way out of line. You're letting your
emotions drive you to do inappropriate things”
(BR,15th October 2003 lol)

Brian,if you weren`t as intelligent as you are you would
Be a lonely person.

Gerhard

ps:Brian please don`t punish me if you`re feeling angry.
i worked long to create this email and i tried to be as sober as possible.
not aggressive,but not nice either (i`ve seen you don`t like that !ok,i`ll keep that in mind from now on.)

"this email".i considered sending this as an email,but i changed my mind-perhaps some parts are interesting to one or two ax-ppl.

Shyguy,

Yes, you understood what I was saying.

It's a forward moving world were eventually women will be treated as equals.
But, with that has to come true equal rights, and some trade offs.

I was trying to say I guess,
that had I a son, I should be just as worried of his face being damaged in a fight as I would my daughters.
If my son was a captured soldier, I would want my government to do just as much to get my son back, as they would do to get my neighbors daughter back.

This is what I meant by suggesting that we need to de-sensitize ourselves.

I'm all for chivalry guys, but is it appropriate these days?
I seriously don't know if that's something that should be admired or mocked. As honestly many of the girls I work with make double or triple what I do per annum. Yet, 90% will look the other way when the check arrives.

Last month I had a co-shoot with a buddy that saw us shooting 12 days straight for a low cost womens clothing chain store. My mate took care of the lunch bill for 6 people the first day. I took care of the bill the second day. My Mate took care of the bill on the third day. I on the fourth. I swear, we had no offers from the girls of wanting to take care of the bill. When on the 6th day I told my mate that this was outrageous, he then called me a tight-ass.
Two of these girls were on a $800 dayrate, I was only on $485 Yet, when I apologized that I couldn't take care of the bill that day, the response was a lovely and chirpy 'It O.K Paul, we'll pay for our own lunches. But, only one had bothered to take her wallet with her. So, my mate ended up paying for the other 3. Me, I stopped going out to lunch.

I know this isn't typical of all women, and I think we are silly for treating all women as if they are in need of our care and protection. They are as much strangers to us as the bloke sitting at the next table, yet we wouldn't even consider taking care of his lunch costs. It's in our best interest to desensitize guys.

Brian wrote

That I said my arguments are lost on you?

You're not even acknowledging my points.
Same as Rudy.
Same as Chiang.

I can only reiterate my specious statements again which is based on the premise that as women represent approx 50% population and that we will never, ever see that proportion represented in any established MuayThai gym as fighters. And, as training fighters is time intensive, why waste time training women to fight? Ergo, women should NOT fight.

Surely there is a valid syllogism in that ..?

You must understand I live in a country that is to all intents and purposes, matriarchal based. We currently have a …

Woman… Head of State
Woman… Prime Minster
Woman… Minster of Justice
Woman… Chief Attorney General
Etc, etc …

We were, after all, the first country to give women the vote so it’s no surprise to us to have women in power at these levels in our society.

I tell Brian, we respect our women, they are tough, and I mean tough, in fact, they’re that tough, they roll their own tampons.

"women represent approx 50% population and that we will never, ever see that proportion represented in any established MuayThai gym as fighters."

Not if you keep up your good work, Chiang. Way to keep those women down. Good job!

Chiang, I think you respect women...only if they know their role that you see fit for them.

This thread is officially hopeless.

Rudy absolutely refuses to aim his posts toward my arguments. Rather, he chooses to aim everything at my character and he continues to come up with conspiracy theories that all of the Ax moderators are posting for me. He posts about EVERYTHING but my arguments. He does EVERYTHING in his power to evade responding to them.

Gerhard, you have (again) made a big personal issue out of something unrelated...yet it somehow makes sense in your mind. You've gone to the point of quoting my emails out of context and applying what I said in email to things I've said in this thread. I can't fucking believe it. You did't think I would have a problem with that? In the past, you have proven to be easily offended by what people say on Ax. Thus, you react with vengeance, like you tried to do with unicorn. That is an example of you letting your emotions drive you to do irresponsible things. Your posts on this thread are a perfect example of that. I know that you've been offended by some replies that I've given you in email. If you wanted to reply about my comments in my email to you, then why didn't you just reply to the email? Furthermore, if you don't want to know what I think, then why are you emailing me asking me questions???

"ps:Brian please don`t punish me if you`re feeling angry.
i worked long to create this email and i tried to be as sober as possible."

...tried to be as sober as possible. Gerhard, you should not be drinking...ever. You need to stop drinking alcohol. It is fucking up your life.

All of my points on this thread in regard to women fighting in the ring are (so far) fucking flawless. If you disagree, then argue against my points. Stop bringing all of this other shit into the discussion.

Ha ha I Really Like Bazs Posts ! Quality ! i Look Forward to em !
Bz this Bits TOP ! Cheers Fella !
Baz faulty Writes:-

My fathers only fault in my eyes is he's very homophobic, lovely bloke do anything for anything but he totally hates gay people. Now I used to think along these same lines until a few years ago I started going out with this girl who had a couple of gay friends. She delivered me a threat either talk to my friends or I'll finish you. She was really good in bed and having a face like tysons I don't get that much sex so I decided to make a effort. Went out one night with them and her on the piss and they were canny blokes. Just normal guys they were'nt totally over the top camp like graham norton and we had a top night out. Quite scary like one of them told me I had come to bed eyes aggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

And Brian Writes:-
This thread is officially hopeless.!

hahah Nice-1

Well it is Topical
and I said a Few Times Myself up above ! its a Good Debate ! :-p

From my own personal perspective, everyone in New Zealand and involved in the MuayThai, actively encourages women participation.

I have a wife who was a former National Kumite Champion, a daughter who was a former National Junior Kumite Champion, we have women instructors, ran women self defense classes, actively encourage women to become officials as refs, judges, etc, …are concerned when women participation drop below 30% in our classes.

Really because you been so, so, so … ‘anal retentive’ …about this topic, I couldn’t help but fuel the debate.

This of course in no way negates my reasons why women should not fight.

Chiange - "Surely there is a valid syllogism in that ..?"

That is a very big word coming from someone who is proposing an idea that is so simplistic. It doesn't add up, Chiang. I already took your "reasoning" and applied it to atomweight/strawweight fighters to ask you if your theory still applies outside of the context of gender. You did not respond to this (much like 90% of my points in this thread have not been addressed).

Surely the "business investment" theory would still apply to male atomweight/strawweight fighters, who are in the minority as well, and who would have difficulty finding fights? And who are at a disadvantage in fighting due to their genetics? They seem to share the same "investment" traits as female fighters.

Yet, somehow, I'll bet your business mentality doesn't apply to them the same way. Thus, I'm concluding that you are gender biased. You have issues with women, specifically. This has nothing to do with the investment of a trainer's time. You simply think that a woman's "role" is not in the ring. Is that correct?

Shyguy wrote "i think DAN and PAUL did a much better job in defending women`s sport than you did ."

Right. Of course you do. You've proven to be very biased toward people who hurt your feelings. There have been a handful of people on this thread who have given me compliments on my arguments. People taking part in this discussion are evading my arguments like the plague.

n8dg
"Is he married ? got a girlfriend? curious>>>>>>> because sorry to say Brian it seems you are trying to win the hearts of all the ladies on Ax"

Yep...there is a line outside my door about 3 miles long of women all wanting to date me because of my comments on here. Some of them have swam all the way over from England. ;)

Of course, they must all be lesbians, because Rudy says that I'm a female.

Brian

I thought they were excellent words, Brian. Specious & syllogism … like, they encapsulated the tenure of this topic so perfectly, don’t you think ???

Ok ok .. I admit it, I’m gender biased. I prefer training women, they are easier to teach, work harder, more reliable, take instruction more readily, etc, etc and all those positive things that have been mentioned on this thread … plus they plain smell a whole lot better than their male counterparts.

Still doesn’t negate the fact that they are a waste of space as fighters.

Kara you have Good Swim arm bands?
:-)
:-p

BRIAN

hey brian what are you up to today buddy

Rudy...
Keep on topic and I have no problem with discussing this with you. In fact I WANT to discuss this with you. But if you keep on with the consiracy theory bullshit then I'm going to suspend your account and delete your comments.

Chiang...how in the hell are you evading my point so well? stick-and-move...stick-and-move...lateral movement!

Chiang. I already took your "reasoning" and applied it to atomweight/strawweight fighters to ask you if your theory still applies outside of the context of gender. You did not respond to this

One more time...

Chiang. I already took your "reasoning" and applied it to atomweight/strawweight fighters to ask you if your theory still applies outside of the context of gender. You did not respond to this

Brian You will be Writing in Caps soon ! Aiiiiiii
:-))))
:-p

Hey brian...Helen, that ball tearing bitch, really F'd it this time huh?

Sandy...
Will you stop posting nonsense on this thread?
A good third of what is in this thread is from you posting silly little irelevant comments. Some of which are sly jabs at the moderators. PLEASE STOP.

"Cant Post it coz i Might Get banned again ? :-((("
"Brian You will be Writing in Caps soon ! Aiiiiiii"

....I bet your hands are shaking....

Paul wrote "I don't understand why everyone is so pissed at Rudy.
He's just as entitled to his opinions."

Well, I explained my motivation for being this emotional about this topic. But to help you with better understanding why I am not a fan of Rudy's...it is not only because of his closed-minded, sexist stance. It is because of the way he is choosing to communicate in this thread. He started off great out of the starting gate. He posted three major points and he even numbered then 1), 2), and 3). That made it really easy to see his points and reply to them directly. I have made about 20 points on this thread and only about 3 of them have been responded to. In the meantime, there have been major tangents and distractions from the topic posted by both Sandy and Rudy....mostly Rudy, with the claim that I'm female or that I'm really 3 moderators posting under one account.

It is frustrating to try to debate with someone who refuses to participate in the debate. He then tries his damndest to disregard what I have to say. That way he doesn't have to respond to it.

Fuck it...
Rudy's account is now suspended.
If he's not going to stick to the topic then this discussion is pointless.

Brian I Think Ive Added A Lot Of Input and Sides of Debate !
My Ref: to the Caps ( which we all Know is a Standing Joke on ME and my Behalf and Im laughing at Myself ) I Think your Being a Little Insecure to Think im Jibing re: Moderators !! ?

And Nonsense??
hahaah You Serious???

So im the Only one and on this Subject ?
Give over !!!

Sandy, am I serious? Do you really think I'm joking?

You have a history of making sly comments about the moderation. I've talked to you about this before. I'm not the only one who has this opinion.

And yes, you have posted lots of nonsense, tangent posts on this topic...like that post about women drivers which has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS TOPIC...so I removed it.

ok ! But like i said ! Ive also Aded to the Serious Parts of this Debate !
its Interesting because as ive Put i do Agree that Women should
Please read My "Serious" Input Posts again !
You Will see !

Why Are you Highlighting me ?
as Always ! you Continue to look for Flaws and as if everything i post has a Double Meaning?
When its Not !
Ive Nothing to say V the Moderators !
YO

oops YO was typing to say
You and Moderators ive No Problems with !

Hey Brian,

Because of the size of this thread, and the volume of text, it's become very difficult to trace back certain comments to see where peoples originally posted them as a reply etc.

Perhaps it may be a good idea to create a part 2 for this thread as has been done in the past.

Sandy asked, "where are all the female axers?"
Well since Sandy, Brian & Rudy seem to be having such a good bitch fight on their own, there's not much room for womens comments on this issue. Yes women can display MT as well as the guys, just like you three can display catty, bitchiness as well as the women!
Yes, it's good to have a healthy debate with each side argueing their own opinion, but guys maybe you 3 should meet up, get a room and get out your frustrations in person in a loving man on man display of agressive affection, I'm sure it'd do you all a world of good!! You could even video tape in and post it on here for us all to watch, I'm sure it would be more entertaining than your personal digs.
Or maybe you could set up your own website where people could post a question which you 3 could argue about and we could all be silent observers???
Well it wouldn't be much different to what already goes on here at Ax, right?

Paul...understood. I was considering pulling all of the points out of the thread and consolidating them into a new thread. I just haven't had time yet. I'm still at work right now.

Smashgrrrl
That's not very fair at all. Aside from giving Rudy the middle finger, which in hindsite was not a good idea, I've been trying desperately to maintain the debate.

The debate was clean up until a certain point. where Rudy jumped from the debate and started making personal comments that were not relative at all to the discussion :

--------------
Rudy writes:

Listen up! AXERS 'Brian' writes from a distinctly FEMALES point of view!

Starting right at the top

"Alright, you BASTARDS. I'm taking my gloves off for this debate"

When was the last time you heard a bloke call another bloke a 'BASTARD'!!!!

Follow ALL of 'Brians' posts from there and then tell me weather they were written from a male or females perspective!!I should've KNOWN!!!!!
I've been arguing with a RAGING FEMINIST!!!!
-------------

Or maybe I should clean up this thread...remove all of the personal shit...and then invite Rudy back on for a second chance?

The thing I do find most absurd on the topic of whether women should fight or not,
is the fact that it is illegal in one of our states.

Think about it for a moment guys, that to me is very unfair.
A case where our government feels that it has the right to make that decision for individuals by restricting womens Boxing and Kickboxing altogether. How on Earth can they justify this?
I guess they feel that women just don't have the wisdom to decide for themselves what is and isn't a safe sport to participate in.

On the topic of whether I like watching women fight?

To be brutally honest, the large majority of the female fights I've seen in Melbourne, I wouldn't pay to see as a main event. Mostly because these majority of fights have been pretty wild and scrappy.

Now, I'm not suggesting that this is all that women are capable off. Not at all. I've seen Laura Skinnner fight several times, and I expect no less of her technically than I do of say watching Jenk Behic fight. It's just that the fights I'm talking about have been pretty poor as compared to male fights simply because the girls just didn't have the ring experience, through no fault of their own, just seems a lot more difficult for the female fighters to get matched up because of the small pools of female fighters to choose from. If they had the opportunity to fight more often, and if I got to see two well matched female fighters with 20 plus fight experience, I'm certain that I would then happily pay to see a female main event card. I have seen a female boxing demo bout in Melb that would have mad a lot of male fighters with equal experience envious of these girls slick hand skills.

I wanted to name other female fighters that have impressed the hell out of me, but unfortunately I can't remember their names. One a QLD girl who's trained by her husband- awesome knee fighter. I can't remember these girls names, because they don't get the regular exposure. I also cant remember the names of dozens of male fighters either whom I've only got to see fight once or twice.